Attack in Mumbai -2

12-17-2008, 09:05 AM

QUOTE(ramana @ Dec 17 2008, 04:51 AM) From news reports the shoe thrower was beaten up and is in Iraqi custody. And he is a journalist to boot!

How come the HR folk are not agitating at the treatment to the shoe thrower?
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They are waiting for Manmohan Singh Daughter to show up and later she can write book. <!--emo& Big Grin

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Bap is good in protecting terrorist by doing nothing and daughter is good in making money by working against government who are doing something against terrorist.

12-17-2008, 09:15 AM

RAW is used to give jobs to Babus and relatives. Wives sometimes gets whore expense, whether she did work or not.
Babus are biggest evil and should be demoted on every failure.
This RAW news is temp, nothing will change because there is no will to change. Why Moron SIngh son-in-law is still working in Home Ministry Intelligence wing?

12-17-2008, 05:23 PM

Kasab had Arunodaya ID card


Hyderabad, Dec. 16: Anti-terror investigators have found that Mohammed Ajmal Amir Kasab, the captured 26/11 terrorist, had used a fake ID card on the name of Arunodaya Degree College at Dilsukhnagar in the city. The college is situated near the Sai Baba temple in Dilsukhnagar where a scooter bomb exploded in 2002.

Sources said Kasab passed himself off as Naresh Verma, son of Vilas Verma, Plot No 28B, Mamata Nagar, Nagole. Police could not locate Mamata Nagar. Police said the terrorist may have prepared the fake card with information from the Internet or with the aid of a Hyderabadi terror operative based in Pakistan. Police is also investigating whether the fake card was made in Hyderabad by local operatives.

ramana · 12-17-2008, 07:58 PM

Zeetv was showing hte other guy had an id from a place in Maharashtra.

I think one of the first targets of the NIA will be the Purohit case to show its not anti-minority or even the MPs bribing case. Mark my words. So BJP's enthusiasm will boomerang on them.

The better approach is to get the law to be enacted after the elections. But then BJP leadership is very naive (sucker) when national interests laws are brought in and will rush to support them without thinking through the consequences. By passing the new law, the UPA will be scot free of the total lack of responsibility over last seven- eight years in mollycoddling terrorists. And see how Antualy implied that Karakare was lead to his demise by vested interests!

And the press will support them for they adont want the Hindus to come to power.

12-17-2008, 11:13 PM

NIA will be for future cases, not for existing. But they will use them on Seer, Sadhus and Hindu religious leaders in future.

QUOTEZeetv was showing hte other guy had an id from a place in Maharashtra.Give money to Babu, he can dance without shame.
Bribe is so easy in India, all laws and Vardi is just laughing material. Even after so many terrorist incidences, anyone can walk out of airport without any checks.
Indians don't have mindset of responsibility, they don't believe is individual responsibility, always believe in other can do work for them or contacts can help them out. Biggest sin of Socialism is lack of responsibility.
I have no hope. India needs drastic change.

12-17-2008, 11:55 PM

Antulay clarifies, but Govt embarrassed stillQUOTEWhether he (Karkare) was just a victim of terror or something (else), I donât know,â said Antulay on Wednesday morning about the deaths of Karkare and two other police officers.

After the BJP and Shiv Sena criticised him, Antulay changed his stand and told Parliament he had not talked about who killed the police officers but about who "sent them in the wrong direction".

"Who had sent them to Cama Hospital (where terrorists struck). What were they told that made them leave for the same spot in the same vehicle.

"I repeat what I had said. I had not said who had killed them but only questioned who had sent them there (Cama Hospital) in that direction," said Antulay in the Lok Sabha.

His statement in the House differs from what he said a few hours earlier. "There is more than what meets the eyes," Antulay said in the morning about Karkareâs death.
This lowlife jerk is already trying to blame Hindus.

ramana · 12-18-2008, 01:23 AM

Editorial in Pioneer, 17 Dec 2008

QUOTEEDITS | Thursday, December 18, 2008 | Email | Print |

US not interested in Indiaâs security

Second opinion : Dilbag Rai

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Riceâs recent visit to New Delhi and Islamabad was not just to express solidarity with India following the terrorist attacks on Mumbai and buy time to prevent an escalation of tension between the two countries, but also to safeguard US interests in the region.

Ms Riceâs âtalksâ with Indian and Pakistani leaders have not shed much light on what action the latter will take against the perpetrators of the 26/11 terror attacks or what measures will be taken to prevent such heinous acts in future.

Despite promising Ms Rice that authorities will take stern measures against anyone found involved in the Mumbai terror siege, Pakistan is not ready to accept any evidence presented by India and its own media.

On the other hand, by involving Pakistan in the investigation process India will give further impetus to an unending war of words that will lead nowhere. The Pakistan Government is wary of being seen by its people as obliging India or coming under pressure of either India or the US. Though Pakistanâs civil society is against terrorism, it may not accept a situation where the Government has taken measures under coercion, especially when all the pressure is being applied by India.

Pakistan, crafty as ever, is exploiting Indiaâs outrage by taking the line that if war with India becomes imminent it would have no other option but to divert the number of forces committed to operations against the Taliban and the Al Qaeda in the tribal areas along Afghanistan. The US too would not like to disturb the on-going NATO operations there, and therefore, would not like Pakistan to weaken its troop presence along the Afghan border in any manner. Ms Riceâs request to India to avoid actions of unintended consequences is congruent with this position. Her call to Pakistan for robust action against terrorist elements while expressing satisfaction with its commitment to the anti-terror operations in the tribal FATA region of Pakistan, indicates that the US is not ready to push Islamabad beyond a certain point. Thus, her recent mission to the region should be considered as a mere lip service mission as far as India is concerned.

To allow death and destruction to overwhelm us would be tantamount to conceding defeat to religious fanatics. Our leaders must know that no price is too great to protect the nationâs sovereignty and hence must do whatever is necessary to safeguard the same.

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I submit even GOI under UPA is not interested in Indian security so why should the US? <!--emo& Sad

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12-18-2008, 01:58 AM

QUOTEI submit even GOI under UPA is not interested in Indian security so why should the US?
Same mentality, expect somebody else do job for them.

Till GOI or Indians don't stand on its own, they deserve junk leadership they are electing, who are appointing Morons/loons as PM etc.

12-18-2008, 02:02 AM

QUOTEI am sorry, says Ahamed
pioneer.com
PTI | New Delhi
With his speech at the UN in the wake of the Mumbai terror strikes sparking controversy for absence of any reference to Nariman House, Minister of State for External Affairs E Ahamed on Wednesday said he was âsorryâ if his statement had led to any "misunderstanding".

âI am very sorry. It is my duty to defend every Indian or any foreigner who is in India. We are all one,â he said.

âIf there is any misunderstanding, I need to clarify,â he said adding that the name of Nariman House, which had a Jewish religious centre, or any other place was not taken by him and neither did he mention any community.
Muslim are first muslim, rest go to hell.

12-18-2008, 02:08 AM

QUOTEGetting its Act together
pioneer.com
But UPA lacks the guts to fight terror
Doubts about the UPA Governmentâs intention to fulfil its promise, made in the aftermath of the November 26 fidayeen attacks in Mumbai, of setting up a federal investigative agency and tightening existing legal provisions to fight terrorism have been partially removed by the proposed legislative measures. A Bill has been introduced in Parliament to set up a National Investigation Agency, which will have over-riding powers to investigate incidents of terrorism across the country and prosecute the guilty. Some State Governments have expressed their reservations about setting up a federal investigative agency as it would be intruding into their domain â maintaining law and order is a State Governmentâs responsibility. While such objections may have been valid in the past, they are no longer relevant. The siege of Mumbai has demonstrated that jihadi terrorism has evolved into a lethal war against the nation; most, if not all, State Governments do not have the resources or lack the political will to tackle those who are waging this war. If we are going to move towards a homeland security regime, then the proposed National Investigation Agency is a non-negotiable necessity. A separate Bill has been moved to further amend the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act of 1967 to facilitate both successful investigation and prosecution. This Act was amended in 2004-05 after the UPA abolished the Prevention of Terrorism Act with disastrous consequences. At that time, then Union Home Minister Shivraj Patil, whose gross incompetence is largely to blame for the collapse of the national security apparatus, had claimed that the amended Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act would serve the purpose of dealing with terrorism.

Like everything else that Mr Patil ever said, this too proved to be no more than bunkum â not only has India suffered repeated terrorist strikes and paid a huge price over the past four-and-a-half years, a situation has come when mere tinkering with existing laws is unlikely to have a deterrent effect. Hence, although the proposed amendments, including increasing the period of detention from 90 to 180 days, denying bail to the accused without the consent of the prosecution, shifting the burden of proof of innocence on those who are charged with committing acts of terrorism, and expanding the scope of what defines terrorism are welcome measures, they may ultimately prove to be insufficient. It can be argued that since the amended Act will more or less resemble POTA and hence serve the purpose of the tough law that was first discredited and then scrapped by the Congress and its âsecularâ allies with an eye to the Muslim vote, there is no reason to frame a separate law. This argument is not without merit; even after its 2004-05 amendment, the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act had enough clauses to prosecute those who perpetrate terror and those who collude with the perpetrators. But the amended law was neither used to send out a clear message to terrorists, their collaborators and their patrons that their criminal deeds shall not be tolerated, nor was it invoked to prosecute the guilty. Indeed, in most cases prosecutors preferred the easy option of invoking the Arms Act. So, there is no reason to believe that the Act, after further amendments, will be used as a weapon to fight terrorism. Ultimately, what matters is not the law but the Governmentâs political determination, something which is alien to the Prime Minister and his Cabinet colleagues

ramana · 12-18-2008, 02:51 AM

Op-Ed. Telegraph, Kolkota, 18 Dec 2008

QUOTEDANGEROUS PLAYERS IN AN ELABORATE CHARADE 
Given the long history of US support enjoyed by the Inter-Services Intelligence, India faces a tough challenge ahead, writes Abhijit Bhattacharyya

Help wantedÂ

Hamid Gul, the sixth boss of the Inter-Services Intelligence of Pakistan, assumed charge at the height of the Soviet-Afghan war in April 1987 and was witness to six memorable events connected with his country: first, the death of his military boss and the nationâs president, General Zia-ul-Haq, in an air crash on Wednesday, August 17, 1988, in Bahawalpur. Second was the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Kabul, beginning February 15, 1989. Third was the beginning of civil war in Afghanistan following the vacuum created by the Soviet defeat and US withdrawal. Fourth, the accession of Benazir Bhutto as the first woman prime minister of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Fifth was his brazen support to the Khalistan movement, and the last was the masterminding of the Kashmir turbulence, before abdicating the post of the director-general, ISI, in May 1989.

Born in Sargodha in 1935, commissioned in the Armoured Corps in 1954, and having served, first as the director-general of military intelligence, then of the ISI, and finally as the lieutenant-general of the Strike Corps II in Multan, Gul is remembered more for his 27-month stint at the ISI than for anything else. General Zia-ul-Haq picked up Gul for his hardcore Islamic views as the former was keen to radically Islamize the Pakistani army. Gul successfully nurtured right-wing politicians and created Islami Jamhoori Ittehad, a religion-based political party to counter Benazir Bhuttoâs Pakistan Peopleâs Party. Although he failed to stop Benazir from becoming the prime minister, he succeeded in incurring her wrath, which paved the way for his ouster from the ISI in May 1989.

When the Soviets began withdrawing from Kabul in February 1989, Gulâs tactics of direct action to capture Jalalabad to install a puppet Afghan government with the help of the Mujahideen, ended in total failure due to the inability of the Mujahideen to switch over from their traditional expertise of guerrilla warfare to conventional military operations. On the Khalistan front, Gul was equally adventurous and innovative as he felt that âbacking the Sikh separatists was the only way of pre-empting any fresh Indian threat to Pakistanâs territorial integrityâ. He finally believed that âkeeping the Indian Punjab destabilized is equivalent to the Pakistani army having an extra division at no cost to the Pakistani taxpayersâ.

Today, Indians should scan through leading newspapers from 1987 to 1989 to find out how many innocent lives were lost, how and where. Indians should reflect on the contemporary reports from 1989, when Benazir was new to the machinations of the Pakistani army and the ISI, which were headed respectively by the Azamgarh-born refugee (mojahir), Mirza Aslam Beg, and the Sargodha-born Punjabi, Hamid Gul â the two anti-democracy stalwarts, who accepted the first female prime minister in Pakistan more out of compulsion than choice.

Politically too, the ISI, during Gulâs tenure, successfully created the coalition of the anti-Benazir religio-political force, called IJI. Gul, therefore, stood out not only as a military general and a spy-master but also showed features of a religious preacher and political leader.

Gulâs succession to the post of the ISI chief in April 1987, however, was partly owing to his being a favourite of the station chief of the Central Intelligence Agency, Milton Bearden, and the then US Ambassador to Pakistan, Arnold Lewis Raphel, both of whom considered Gul as an ally waging the jihad of the Mujahideen against Kremlin in Kabul, and a potential national leader of Pakistan. The US-Gul honeymoon, however, was short-lived, owing to Washingtonâs loss of interest, as the mission of military mayhem of Marxist Moscow was complete. This re-energized the free-for-all fight among Muslim militants, militia, middlemen and the merchants of death in the vast arid land of Afghanistan. Subsequently, the fury of the United States of America multiplied, as evidence appeared in the late Nineties that Gul, despite being a retired man, somehow was able to give the Taliban an advance warning of the US attempts to assassinate Osama bin Laden with missile strikes. The worst allegation against Gul followed in 2004 in the US media that the former ISI boss was a key participant in the 9/11 plot and âOsama bin Ladenâs master plannerâ.

President George W. Bush had recently asked, âWho controls the ISI?â The world today is asking this question too, but very few, so far, has paid any heed to bleeding Indiaâs recurring plea to take a united stand against the machinations of the military, mullah, and militants of Pakistan, a combination that makes the ISI not only the State within a State but also something more than that. The ISI is not merely a ânon-state actorâ as referred to by the leader of the Opposition in the Indian Parliament on December 11, 2008. The ISI is a parallel State that gets money from Islamabadâs exchequer, but operates on auto-pilot with several State actors as well as extra-territorial factors that determine its course, direction, aim, speed and the angle of attack on its targets by pouring in money

Thus, Pakistan government apart, the nearest and dearest traditional supporters of the ISI have been the US, the CIA and some countries in the Middle-East. History shows that the likes of Gul first played the role of a pawn and subsequently that of a power-broker from the wrong side of the fence. Today, the reality is that the US is unlikely go against the ISI and Pakistan beyond a point. Or else history will expose the USâs actions, which, of course, were born out of the strategic compulsions of the superpower. Thus, despite the love-hate relationship between the CIA and the ISI, Associated Press reported on July 22, 2004, that the â9/11 Commission Report fails to mention possible ISI connection to 9/11â. This, despite reports that the commission was given a document by a high-level, anonymous source claiming that the âISI was fully involved in devising and helping the entire 9/11 plot.â The document blames Gul for being the âcentral participant in the plot.â It noted that Gul is a self-avowed âadmirerâ of bin Laden and that the CIA considers Gul to be âthe most dangerous man in Pakistanâ. A senior Pakistani political leader said, âI have reason to believe Hamid Gul was Osama bin Ladenâs master planner.â The 9/11 document also suggested that âPakistanâs appearance of fighting al Qaeda is merely an elaborate charade and top military and intelligence officials in Pakistan still closely sympathize with bin Ladenâs ideology.â Despite this exposure, the 9/11 commissionâs final report rarely mentioned the ISI.

The only significant mention is a brief comment that the ISI was the Talibanâs âprimary patronâ. The director-general, ISI, lieutenant-general Mahmood Ahmed (1999-2001) is mentioned twice, both in the context of post-9/11 diplomacy. It is noted that the details of 9/11 plot were widely known by the Taliban leadership, but the report fails to consider if the Taliban shared this knowledge with their âprimary patron.â Far from criticizing Pakistan, the commission praises the country for its support in the war on terror and suggests that the âUS should greatly increase its foreign aid thereâ. Given this attitude, India should recall the popular adage, âGod helps those who help themselves.â The geopolitics of realpolitik can only be ignored at Indiaâs own peril.

ramana · 12-18-2008, 03:04 AM

Excerpt from Piioneer op-ed!

QUOTEAre we serious?

The weeks after the dreadful terror attack on Mumbai have been quite vocal on how Pakistan's civilian Government is itself a victim and how India needs to be considerate about its much touted impotence.

The ridiculousness of the suggestion is as mammoth as the fallout of a thumb-twiddling India would be. And no, a war is not being suggested here. What would do equally well for the Indian public is an honest show of strength by the Indian Government in making see this so-called jelly-like administration on the other side of the border to show some sense of sincerity in its efforts against its homegrown terrorists.

It suits Zardari's Pakistan to come out as a weakling State in the grip of so-called "non-State actors." Think of it: A weak-kneed Government like the one at helm in Pakistan now, had no hesitation whatsoever in showing the backbone to say a big 'No' to India in handing over the men who caused mayhem in Mumbai. It also showed its complicity with the purveyors of terrorism in merely detaining Masood Azhar and Hafeez.

It is quite a laugh for them and for all of us that such detentions mean anything at all. As an Indian gentleman said on a TV chat show, "Hafeez must be enyoing a good biryani meal with the officials" and waiting for the furore to die down before Pak announces it has found no evidence against him and releasing him for yet another attack on India. Perhaps, we need to hire Mossad!

ramana · 12-18-2008, 04:01 AM

From news accounts the police have about 60 hrs of recordings of the conversatiosn between the terrorists and their masters in TSP. Could the masters in TSP have directed Kasab and his buddy Ismail to move from the Cama Hospital roof to ambush the expected ATS squad going over to visit police officer Date? The masters might have the TV footage as channels were going wild or monitor police radio?

12-18-2008, 08:18 AM

Pak high commissioner says, Kasab is not a Pakistani

Wed, Dec 17 10:15 PM

New Delhi/Faridkot (Pakistan), Dec. 17 (ANI): Pakistan's High Commissioner Shahid Malik said on Wednesday that Ajmal Kasab is not a Pakistani citizen.

The News quoted Malik as saying that Maulana Masood Azhar was also not present in Pakistan.

Recently residents of a village in Pakistan Punjab''s Okara District have reportedly told a British daily that Ajmal Amir Kasab, the surviving gunman involved in last week''s terrorist attacks on Mumbai, hails from there.

According to a report in The Observer, electoral lists for Faridkot show 478 registered voters, including the name of Kasab''s father Mohammed Amir.

The paper further goes on to say that a villager, who cannot be named for his own protection, said the village was an active recruiting ground for the banned militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba.

"We know that boy [caught in Mumbai] is from Faridkot,'' he said. ''We knew from the first night [of the attack]. They brainwash our youth about jihad, there are people who do it in this village. It is so wrong,'' he added.

According to the villager and other locals, Ajmal has not lived in Faridkot for about four years but would return to see his family once a year and frequently talked of freeing Kashmir from Indian rule.

The truth about Ajmal''s origins are key to the ongoing investigation of where the attackers came from and will have a profound impact on relations between India and Pakistan. (ANI)

12-18-2008, 09:31 AM

QUOTE(ramana @ Dec 18 2008, 04:01 AM)From news accounts the police have about 60 hrs of recordings of the conversatiosn between the terrorists and their masters in TSP. Could the masters in TSP have directed Kasab and his buddy Ismail to move from the Cama Hospital roof to ambush the expected ATS squad going over to visit police officer Date? The masters might have the TV footage as channels were going wild or monitor police radio?
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It was just a coincidence, right place right time. I was watching live telecast - (3-4 channels, same time on different laptops), last they had shown Karkare was playing with his helmet and walking toward VT, then sat on car with mobile on ears. It seems by that time Kasab and its partner just walking towards Hospital after failed to find place to take hostage at VT. When they saw police car they took cover near bush. There was so much confusion and press was non stop, no breathing gap was gaga on whole thing, even started pointing to Shiv sena or other Hindu organization etc.

12-18-2008, 09:48 AM

QUOTEPak high commissioner says, Kasab is not a Pakistani
Ya, as they did to Paki Fauji during Kargil war.

12-18-2008, 11:15 AM

ISI not involved in Mumbai terror attacks, says US security expert
Very soon they will blame Shiv Sena.

ramana · 12-18-2008, 11:26 AM

QUOTE(Mudy @ Dec 18 2008, 04:01 AM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ramana @ Dec 18 2008, 04:01 AM)From news accounts the police have about 60 hrs of recordings of the conversatiosn between the terrorists and their masters in TSP. Could the masters in TSP have directed Kasab and his buddy Ismail to move from the Cama Hospital roof to ambush the expected ATS squad going over to visit police officer Date? The masters might have the TV footage as channels were going wild or monitor police radio?
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It was just a coincidence, right place right time. I was watching live telecast - (3-4 channels, same time on different laptops), last they had shown Karkare was playing with his helmet and walking toward VT, then sat on car with mobile on ears. It seems by that time Kasab and its partner just walking towards Hospital after failed to find place to take hostage at VT. When they saw police car they took cover near bush. There was so much confusion and press was non stop, no breathing gap was gaga on whole thing, even started pointing to Shiv sena or other Hindu organization etc.
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My instinct tells me there was more than the two fools involved. And the time line doesn't fit. They were hiding on top of the Cama Hospital and then came down. And then ambushed the ATS. I think the Dawood Gang was feeding them special info. And if you see Kasab already was hit in hand. its difficult to pull the three bodies out of the Qualis and keep going.

Its not everyday that a Jt Commissoner fears for his life and locks his vehicle and refuses to answer SMS for he fears revealing his position.

ramana · 12-18-2008, 11:30 AM

QUOTE(Mudy @ Dec 18 2008, 05:45 AM)ISI not involved in Mumbai terror attacks, says US security expert
Very soon they will blame Shiv Sena.
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The contents tell one story and the headline another. And off course someone who is in bed with them will deny ISI involvement. It hardly makes it credible. And if you read he says lower level might be involved. So What value is added by the Aziz Haniffa story except ot give plausible deniability to ISI?

Again Indian journalists swayed by Ummah considerations to weaken Indian case and resolve.

12-18-2008, 05:14 PM

QUOTEIndia plans to jam terror cash arm

New Delhi, Dec. 17: Post-26/11 India is likely to push for membership of the Paris-based Financial Action Task Force (FATF) in order to counter money laundering and terrorist financing.

Sources said New Delhi can be expected to actively pursue membership of the FATF and the technical requirements for getting FATF membership were being processed.

India has enjoyed observer status with the FATF since February 2007. India, along with South Korea, are working towards becoming FATF members. Currently both countries are members of the Asia Pacific Group on Money Laundering, a FATF-style regional body.

The issue of terrorist financing also figured in the fifth meeting of the India-Russia joint working group on combating international terrorism that concluded here on Wednesday. A joint statement issued on the occasion said: "The Russian side reiterated its support to Indiaâs membership of the Paris-based Financial Action Task Force (FATF). It was noted that Indiaâs membership to the Eurasia Group could further enhance regional anti-money laundering and countering terrorist finance regime."

The issue had also figured in the talks here between US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and the Indian leaders. In a joint news conference with External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee here on December 3, Ms Rice had applauded Prime Minister Manmohan Singhâs emphasis on terrorist-financing and other ways to trap perpetrators of terrorist acts such as 26/11.

As a precursor to joining the FATF, India has already established the Financial Intelligence Unit and was taking other measures to fulfil the stipulated guidelines.The FATF has issued a set of 49 recommendations for detection and prevention of money laundering and for suppression of the financing of terrorism and terrorist acts.

But, politicians' interests and money channels will be protected. So, how effective will this be?

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