Christian Subversion And Missionary Activities - 5

[dhu]

some (edited) comments from yt. Some of these could very well have been written by hindus.

http://youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_com...v%3DP6f6evLllEY

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->shintaroDaKiIIa (1 year ago) Show Hide

When the Koreans were poor and desperate after World War II, they allowed Christianity, the religion of the Western colonizers, to infect their country. Korea already enjoyed the rich philosophical traditions of Confucianism and Buddhism. Confucianism creates stable relationships among people. Buddhism liberates the mind. Christianity is a silly religion, based on a blind faith in a nonexistent God, ignoring all evidence to the contrary.

shintaroDaKiIIa (1 year ago) Show Hide

Koreans are too sentimental and hot-tempered. They need to think more before they take action. That is why they are taken in by some primitive religion from the West. It must be a wonderful sense of security to believe you can be saved only through faith in a nonexistent God, but it is only self-delusion. It can neither send the individual nor the society in the right direction.

shintaroDaKiIIa (1 year ago) Show Hide

It seems that you can find nothing wrong with what I wrote, so you make a personal attack (ad hominem). I love Korean culture, and it is disgusting that it is being destroyed by evangelicals from the United States.

shintaroDaKiIIa (10 months ago) Show Hide

I love Korean food, culture, religion. I just hate adoption of false religion of colonizer--white man's big lie: Christianity.

turner02 (10 months ago) Show Hide

christianity is no more "false" than any other religion. the white man does not have ownership of christianity. there a millions of people who lead perfectly normal lives while being very religious. it's not the fault any particular religion. the onus must be levied on individuals that uses religion to promote hate, ignorance, intolerance...etc.

shintaroDaKiIIa (10 months ago) Show Hide

No. The white exploiters tried to brainwash us with the Christian lie when we were poor in 1950s, sending missionary liars to turn us against our native beliefs. Christianity is religion of Adolph Hitler, crusades, witch hunts, and Inquisition. This is a poison religion. Buddhism teaches peace and nonviolence, but the Christian preacher says to abuse monks and destroy temples and monasteries. Islam, Christian, and Jew all believe in holy war--total obsession with forcing their view on others.

turner02 (10 months ago) Show Hide

you're doing exactly what you accuse christianity of doing. that is, you're using buddhism as a vehicle to hate and degrade any other religion. the fact of the matter is, you have more problems than religion. your obsession with japan is somthing you should look into. by that, i mean go see a shrink.

shintaroDaKiIIa (10 months ago) Show Hide

Stop misrepresenting the facts. I'm not even Buddhist. And Buddhism is from India.

Japanese stole native religion of Korea, which they call Shinto and claim as unique to Japan. That is big lie.

Then during Meiji era they corrupted Japanese Shinto with Emperor worship--bigger moral hazzard.

Original meaning of shinto is appreciation of nature. That is something we all need to do. To protect earth.

Christians take dominion over nature. They are the exploiters of animals and resources.

shintaroDaKiIIa (10 months ago) Show Hide

He was stupid, because he did not take out the real culprits--just some spoiled white kids and famous professors.

shintaroDaKiIIa (1 year ago) Show Hide

"Organ harvesting of live Falun Gong practitioners" watch?v=Fkf2u1Umzi4 Basically, what Japanese did to China 70 years ago, is what Chinese do to each other now. It's very sad that in 70 years, China has not progressed, although Japan has lived in peace with human rights. Chinese should stop pretending to be Korean/Japanese to spread hate.

superdan801 (10 months ago) Show Hide

that's the difference between a free democratic nation and a communist nation

shintaroDaKiIIa (10 months ago) Show Hide

In China people are free to attack Japan for things that happened 70 years ago, but they cannot protest that the government officials are stealing their land right now. They cannot protest forced abortion, forced labor, forced organ transplant, forced repatriation of North Koreans, who are then executed. Individual life has no meaning. Only satisfying the greed of party officials.

zeromina (10 months ago) Show Hide

I agree. People have to wakeup to all the horrors of this world. Things have progressed this bad because we have so de-sensitised ourselves by detaching from other forms of life in our world thus have been cruel to them. If one knows that God is no separate entity favoring cirtain believers,or beings, we will be more sensitive about what we do to life in this world, we are swimming in the pool of cruelty we helped to creat.

shintaroDaKiIIa (10 months ago) Show Hide

Every country with the idea of God seems to also have the idea of God being on their side. But I agree with you. If there is a God, then God is impartial.

siberiantiger84 (11 months ago) Show Hide

korea christianity is psycho and crazy f... people..

shintaroDaKiIIa (10 months ago) Show Hide

Although I am Korean and very proud of our 6000 year old culture, you are right that some Christians have become fanatics. They are burning up ancient temples and gates in Korea. This is the effect of the religion of the colonizer. Our 600 year old gate Namdaemun was just burnted down by Christian fanatics. This is our national treasure, almost destroyed by the Chinese and North Korean communists during the Korean war.

theonespawn (10 months ago) Show Hide

wtf you saying??? Namdaemun burnt down by this 'one' guy. and he had problems with government not paying him stuff. well he might be Christian but it was not the reason he burned down the gate.hahaha

shintaroDaKiIIa (10 months ago) Show Hide

<span style='color:blue'>Burning down the gate is not about protesting non-Christian religions, but rather shows absolutist thinking, which is the hallmark of Christianity. Koreans and Japanese who are unpolluted by Christianity are more open to relativist thinking and the Oneness of all things, in keeping with neo-Confucian philosophy.

shintaroDaKiIIa (10 months ago) Show Hide

Today's Unit 731: China puts prisoners of conscience, who want to practice their religion or express their political views, in prison. While they are still alive, their organs are removed and sold to citizens of the former colonial powers: Europe and USA.

shintaroDaKiIIa (10 months ago) Show Hide

Today's Comfort Women: Starving women escape from North Korea to find food. Chinese criminals know the Chinese government will send them home to be executed, if reported. So they force them to be prostitutes.

zeromina (10 months ago) Show Hide

Hay guys must see Credo Mutwa interview. Korean situation was exactly same with Africans. they were and still is colonised by cunning infiltraton by christian missionaries. That is what these korean christians were doing to poor Afgan people.

shintaroDaKiIIa (10 months ago) Show Hide

sakal88's mind is made up. Don't confuse him with the facts. He rather stick to his personal insults.

shintaroDaKiIIa (10 months ago) Show Hide

You are absolutely right. If Koreans are really proud of their 6000 year history, they will not throw it away to adopt the religion of their colonial masters.

sakal88 (10 months ago) Show Hide

if thats right then stop using electricity, internet, cars, join with Ncorea and DIE from hunger, ungrateful F....., U were saved by these
colonialist, missioners brought civilization to barbarians, im not a christian but everybody is free to believe what he wants, yes Afgans are pooooorr people that kidnap and murder for money

shintaroDaKiIIa (10 months ago) Show Hide

Excuse me, but we were saved by the UN/USA, not by the insane Christians who think Adam and Eve walked with the dinosaurs.

좋아하는대로 상상하셔도 상상일 뿐입니다.

Korea had civilization, it was just only for the top 1% who were yangban. The Japanese tried to educate the peasants, but it was in their language and culture, not ours. This has nothing to do with the colonizers from China, Japan, Russia, and USA.

shintaroDaKiIIa (10 months ago) Show Hide

Christians want to bring about the Second Coming by making the Earth uninhabitable. They are fraught with superstition.

The original Shinto comes from Korea. It is about the appreciation of nature and has NOTHING to do with the Japanese emperor OR so-called "Korean Shinto," which corrupts shinto with belief in God insanity.

Japan should STOP claiming Shinto as their unique religion, when it is Korean.

Insane Christians are a scourge.

shintaroDaKiIIa (10 months ago) Show Hide

Basically, all the s... religions come from the primitive and warmongering Middle East: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. They are all basically the same crap.

Great religions come from great civilizations: Korea (Shinto), China (Tao, Confucius, Mencius, Chuang-Tzu, Hui-Neng, neo-Confucianism), and India (Buddhism).

Hindu s... is not from India, but Aryan invasion import. One god is bad enough. 40 million is even crazier than wacko Christian fools.

nanaki7 (9 months ago) Show Hide

if Korea turn his back on God your economy wil fall.

jangbaksa (4 months ago) Show Hide

Trust me it's not to make money. Most churchgoers have businesses outside church where they make money.

Cellem17 (7 months ago) Show Hide

Hi nikiseo
Just want to say that only way to find out that all this Korean christians are brainwashed is by reading the Qurran.

NipponPower4ever (7 months ago) Show Hide

isolate Korean from the rest of the world.Only people that can save their sick mind is a Japanese. Korean even eat the low quality beef that American does not even feed to their dogs. It is a true story. Korean should thank to your president Lee Myung Park he was born in Japan. I know he has Japanese culture deep in his heart. I can feel my own blood. He will save Koreans from the poverty. he will be another formal Pres. Park Jung Hee. Korean! thanks to Japaneses.

ztevo (7 months ago) Show Hide

stupid monkey...learn to speak/write english you retard!

maxwanna (7 months ago) Show Hide

I'm Korean. I can't speak English well. But please look at my writings.
I looked that. I'm very shameful and angry. Those are crazy. But all Korean isn't crazy. Please don't look all Korean is crazy.
Lee Myeong Bak is very crazy. He import mad cow.
He kills Korea nation. Please save Korean.
Please...Please...

acrossstar (6 months ago) Show Hide

well, i'm Christian and the way he talk was right. i mean, i can't totally agree with him but he got the point. it's just sad that he talked about Christianity like that. but that's way Christianity right now..sad, so sad

liuupson (6 months ago) Show Hide

christianaty for loosers.....heads.go and watch athiest video.even 10% americans do not believe in god.48% jermans do not believe in god

liuupson (6 months ago) Show Hide

Mark 16:16 (King James Version)
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
so all angry christians (the ....heads do not believe evolution)go and drink poison.becouse ur GOD is going to save u.lol

MTheoryGuy (4 months ago) Show Hide

What are you talking about? Do you not see the problem with what you said? Of course all those things talk about jesus. I am not debating whether or not the man existed, my point is the bible and Christianity (along with all other religions" have not the slightest piece of evidence going for them. Not to mention that even from a moral point of view they are downright horrible and self-contradictory. Have you read the old testament!? God is a murderous psychopath.
Tell Jesus his love isn't mutual

jangbaksa (4 months ago) Show Hide

<b>Have you read the New Testament? What was horrible? </b>As for other religions such as Islam which contradicts the message of the bible, I personally believe it is the religion of Satan. All this is mentioned in the Bible.

jangbaksa (4 months ago) Show Hide

Humanity creating a god was inevitable yes. That's what happened in OT times when even Jews were worshipping other foreign gods such as Baal. But God said there is no other God but him who created the universe.
All the miracles performed by Jesus were seen by eyewitnesses. His death and resurrection was witnessed by hundreds. This event transformed their lives and the disciples'. They were willing to die for what they believed was true.

tiagocarioca (3 months ago) Show Hide

I am brazilian. My country is Christian. Unfortunatelly i only have to say that Christianity and Islam are the most intolerante religions of the world. Besides the supposed love of jesus, there is only one purpose of the Christianity: destroy all beliefs and religions. With this intolerance and prejudice, I think the christians are making the world worse. And Korea, unfortunately, is part of this shame too.

paulkrist44 (2 months ago) Show Hide

There are millions interested to know the machinations (trickeries)followed by Christian missionaries all over the world, using their immense resources of money and manpower to create divisions among peoples by introducing one more religion, using right to freedom of religion. Can you give an English explanatory note for the news as it is read in this video? Without knowing this, I should not comment.

bmkaruppan (2 months ago) Show Hide

South and North Vietnam merged when the Americans were defeated in their game to bring Christianity to entire Vietnam misusing the then S Vietnam President who was a christian. It was a tough war for vietnamese,losing millions because of American Christian cruelty.IF BOTH KOREAS UNITE AND RECONVERTVERT TO BUDDHISM, AND THROW OUT THE LAST CHRISTIAN MISSIONARY, THERE WILL BE A STRONG EAST TO FACE THE CRUEL WEST.

bmkaruppan

Though the fact is that US attacked North Viet to stop "communism". You're right in some part. They want to keep influence in foreign country to gain control. to do that, they use culture and religion. You are right.

But don't be very aggressive. Buddhism is not a cruel religion that causes war like christianity.

bmkaruppan (1 month ago) Show Hide

cirenow
Of course, "Buddhism is not a cruel religion that causes war like christianity". The other point you make is "..US attacked North Viet to stop "communism"." Well,if Communism is a lopsided sociopolitical ideology absurdly believing in the need to establish labour supremacy, so too capitalism is untenable, all people running after money and wealth, with few working to get it. Hinduism says,the eternal law of four divisions - spiritual, defence,mercantile and industrial - is God-designed.

cirenow (1 month ago) Show Hide

absolutely.

what i meant to say was that US "supposedly went to Vietnam to stop Communism".
the excuse.
im no supporter of both capitalism and communism. both have flaws. no one idea is better than other.

THEWHIPHAND (1 month ago) Show Hide

The cruel West? What would India be without the West? You were then and still are a bunch of savages. The British and Christians civilized you to the extent they could.Honestly answer what would your life be like today? Be honest.
Yes there was much cruelty at times no doubt.
What about your own cruelty and the way you treat your women...your epideic of child prostituton. Same as Africa they had slavery before the white and still practice slavery today and how do you treat your black people?

bmkaruppan (1 month ago) Show Hide

Many NGOs. especially those acting at the behest of Christian missionaries are fulltime engaged in cooking up child prostitution, child labour, cruelty against women, etc.,and similar nonissues.They ignore real issues of administrative corruption, politicians' getting away with crimes due to their nexus with all hierarchies of power,poverty removal despsite govt.allocations for serving needy, etc.This is part of Christian agenda to denigrate Indian history and culture.These NGOs.shd. be exposed.

lucasboden (1 month ago) Show Hide

I didn't know Jesus keeps Powerpoint pie charts and statistics about his followers.</span>

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[Shambhu]

Good photos to keep....

http://www.sarvesamachar.com/click_framese...s-and-they.html

[Bodhi]

<span style='color:red'>Religious dyarchy threatens Hindu polity</span>
Sandhya Jain

27 December 2008

The Pioneer yesterday carried a photograph of Telugu Desam Party chief Chandrababu Naidu being solemnly blessed in a Hyderabad church by Archbishop M. Joji. The natal families of the TDP boss and his wife, daughter of late Chief Minister and TDP founder N.T. Rama Rao, have hitherto had an unbroken Hindu lineage. Hence Dr. Naidu's sudden decision to invoke the blessings of the Archbishop on Christmas Day arouses deep misgivings.

To begin with, it is a new perversion in Indian politics. Far from being an expression of respect for all religions, it makes a mockery of faith for a man or woman professing (and practicing) one faith from birth, to suddenly start joining in the religious traditions of another. This is particularly so when adherence to this 'new' cult involves rejecting all other traditions and forms of worship.

Hitherto, Hindus have greeted other communities on their respective festivals, sharing 'sevaiyan' on Id with Muslim friends and respecting spaces like dargahs and pirs. Hindus have not felt called upon to observe the Bakr Id (nor were they expected to); nor it is possible for them to undertake Hajj. At Iftaar parties which are becoming a political tradition, non-Muslims do not join the communal prayers (at least so far!) Similarly, Hindus with Christian friends shared Easter and Christmas parties, and these exchanges did not cross boundaries to involve participation in the religious rites of another tradition.

Hence Dr. Naidu's decision to seek and be photographed receiving the Archbishop's blessings in church on Christmas day is a sharp departure from the practice of sending greetings to Christian brothers and sisters. It is disturbing because it brings an already heavily political Christian clergy directly into Andhra politics; it also apparently confirms persistent rumours of the secret conversion of close members of his family some years ago. If such conversions are true, they should be made public forthwith, and the reasons for keeping them secret revealed.

Worse, this opens the door for the further influx of Western-Christian funds into the state, with grim consequences for the Hindu community. Already, among all Indian regional Diasporas in America, the Andhra diaspora is the most active in trying to entrench foreign citizens as legitimate stakeholders in India - in the best interests of America, of course. This new-rich class is arrogant and cocksure, and I personally have no doubt that these attitudes are behind the otherwise inexplicable murders of bright Andhra students in the United States.

Simultaneously in Chennai, AIADMK general secretary Ms. Jayalalithaa also celebrated Christmas at her Poes Garden residence. It was no ordinary cake-and-tea-and-mistletoe party for Christian friends and party workers - they should anyway have been at home or with their community.

No, Ms. Jayalalithaa organised a proper Christian service, with Rev Raja Prabhakaran leading the prayer, followed by Churchill Joseph reciting from the Holy Bible. Then the choir troupe Christ of Every Soul sang special Christmas songs, and in the end, Bishop Samuel Sudhakar drew the curtains [http://www.deccanchronicle.com/chennaich...tynews.asp]

Why would a Hindu lady organise a Christian service at her home, and why would Christian priests agree to leave their own church and conduct a service at the residence of a non-believer? The question deserves an answer, especially as whispers have not yet died down about the complicity of certain nations and faith communities (with the complicity of the native Mir Jaffar's and Benedict Arnold's) in the tragedy that struck the Kanchi Matham in November 2004.

It is truly shocking that even the colossal tsunami that followed this heartrending depravity has not brought moderation to the lady's antics. Perhaps she is too deeply compromised to withdraw from paths laid out for her to walk - out of the gates of Dharma and into the deep. The Mahabharata is full of stories of rulers who brought about the ruination of their people.

Foreign funds are now a real threat to the sovereignty and integrity of India. In Tamil Nadu, four NGOs ranked among the top 25 recipients of foreign funds in 2006-07, and foreign funding of NGOs itself rose a colossal 56%. This is deeply unsettling and calls for a complete political scrutiny of the organisations towards which the funds are diverted; the districts in which they operate; and the connection (if any) between the presence of foreign-funded NGOs and rise in conversions or Naxal activities.

Tamil Nadu alone received Rs. 2244.25 crore, making it the highest recipient state (nearly 20% of the all-India receipts) in 2006-2007. According to the recent report of the Foreign Contribution (Regulation) Act, World Vision, India (an evangelical body that was involved in the recent unrest in Orissa) got Rs. 256.06 crore; the Board for Integrated Rural Development, Tiruvannamalai received Rs. 106.99 crore; the Society for Rural Education and Development, Arakkonam Rs. 106.92 crore and Om Sakthi Narayani Siddar Peedam Charitable Trust which administers the Golden Temple at Sripuram, Vellore, Rs 59.7 crore

[http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Daily/ski...0270935484]

The Vellore Golden Temple, with its sudden wealth and suddenly-arrived Swami, caused considerable misgivings in traditional Tamil society. Apart from the fact that the temple violates the Agamas in its obscene display of wealth, there has to be a larger, and political, purpose to directing such huge wealth from abroad towards a temple in Tamil Nadu.

Amidst whispers that LTTE cadres abroad were parking their wealth in India in this safe and open manner, came the astonishing revelation that on 16 April 2008, Mrs. Priyanka Vadra, daughter of former prime minister Rajiv Gandhi, used the temple for an illicit meeting with Nalini Sriharan, one of those convicted of the assassination!

Priyanka confirmed the meeting after it was leaked by Nalini's lawyers with a view to bring it on record, but jail authorities were at a loss to explain the illegal departure of Nalini from jail, without the knowledge of the court. As the DMK regime was complicit in arranging this highly irregular meeting, it simply covered up the matter.

Religious dyarchy - the overt practice of two faiths with the intent to undermine one - is the new and ugly mask of Indian secularism. Its purpose is to undermine the sovereignty and territorial integrity of India. Can India wake up to the challenge before it is too late?

The author is Editor, www.vijayvaani.com

http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplay...cle.aspx?id=314

[Shambhu]

Net closes in on Cong MP for Orissa swami’s murder

Bhubaneswar: The BJD-BJP Government in Orissa is closing in on Congress Rajya Sabha member and former civil servant Radhakanta Nayak for his “alleged role in the conspiracy to kill Lakshmanananda Saraswati.”
Sources say that Nayak, the most high-profile Christian political leader in the State, may be arrested shortly. The Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) has alleged that the plot to kill Lakshamananda Saraswati was “hatched in the presence of Nayak.”


The Sangh Parivar, it is believed, called off its Christmas bandh based on the assurances from the government that Nayak would be arrested. “It was one of our demands and we have been given to understand that the process is on,” a senior BJP leader said.

CID Inspector General of Police Arun Ray said the murder of Saraswati was the result of a conspiracy hatched soon after the December 2007 riots. “It was a thorough professional job. The initial plan was hatched by someone else. The actual planning to kill Saraswati was done by a separate group while another group trained the group of killers. One group did not know what the other group was doing. Our challenge is to link up the evidence and present a case before the court that would lead to convictions,” said Ray. The police have already arrested seven people, including some Maoists, for the murder.

[Shambhu]

From Shadow Warrior:

the white brigade will weep buckets for this murderer, just like they are doing in kerala for the murderers of abhaya.

i think the white brigade are the worst hypocrites, even worse than the green brigade and the red brigade. they shamelessly suck up to whites and they whitewash every one of their lies with saccharine statements.

i have been thinking the christists need a 'color' name: what better than the 'white brigade'? after all, it is the color of death and mourning in india. so suitable for a horrid death cult.

[Shambhu]

<b>Coercive Religious Conversion: A Crime Against Humanity </b>
Dr. Babu Suseelan

http://intellibriefs.blogspot.com/2008/12/...sion-crime.html


Religious conversion of Hindus is threatening individuals, families, communities and the nation. Coercive religious conversion of Hindus contains a threat to spiritual tradition and the freedom of choice. If carried unchecked, coercive religious conversion would threaten the very existence of India as a nation.

Armed with a rigid dogma, and millions of foreign money, missionaries are on a warpath to forcefully convert hundreds and thousands of innocent Hindus. If unchecked, coercive religious conversion will have a cataclysmic impact on our freedom.

"Freedom to convert" is counterproductive as a generalized doctrine.
It fails to come to terms with the complex interrelationships between self and society that make the concept of individual choice meaningful. Hence, religious conversion undermines, and in extremes would dissolve, that individual autonomy and human freedom.

Missionaries are trying to deconstruct Hindu society by waging a psychological war. The purpose of the war is to create personal, social and political disorganization. Their dogmatic notion of truth is inappropriate, even dangerous to a pluralistic society. Christian dogmas, by nature are non-deductible, non-negotiable and in fact non-verifiable, whereas an open exchange of ideas, a readiness to give and take, is vital to the survival of a pluralistic society.

Christian preaching tends to be a process of indoctrination in unshakable beliefs. Religion as indoctrination is suited to a totalitarian regime intent on not having people think independently.
By contrast, Hinduism helps in liberating, not closing of minds of individuals. All Hindus, by their very nature, stand for and accept free expression, spiritual progression, and freedom of choice. But once converted to Christianity, the church is not eager to cultivate habits of intellectual freedom among its followers.

Missionary propaganda is deceptive and can be described as the state of mind of a salesman who habitually believes in his own propaganda and the superiority/supremacy of his 'only' product which he wants to push in the market, by hook or crook, at the cost of all existing alternatives. The church's ideological pretensions are smokescreens to destroy Hindus and the all inclusive, liberating Hindu value system.

When a church group takes a position on a political or social issue, it typically does so by claiming divine inspiration. Not only does this inhibit debate, but also it replaces rational discourse. Citing "God's Will"/ "God's Word" in a discussion is meant to silence, not convince, an opponent. Public discussion, so intrinsic to a democratic society, requires public debate. A democracy is degraded when its members, seduced by the desire to play God, get in the habit of pontificating infallible truths on subjects of public policy. Such a practice must culminate, if unchecked, either in theocracy, or in chaos.

One does not find in the Christian theology a conception of human beings as having both the right and the ability through Sadhana to control one's destiny. Concepts such as individual freedom, civil rights, human initiative, and secular programs are basically foreign to holy writ.

It is wrong to draw ideological parallels between Christianity and Hinduism. It is pointless to contrast dogmas as original sin, eternal damnation, and the absolutism of the Kingdom of God with that of the experiential reality of the Hindu Darshanaas which proclaim: "Each soul is potentially Divine", and teach the authentic way and means to discover, realize and manifest in day to day life the inherent divinity equally present in all. Hinduism and Christianity represent incompatible modes of thought and irreconcilable value systems.
Hinduism is dedicated to individual freedoms and rights. The philosophy of Hinduism and Christianity does not mix. Equating Hinduism (or, indeed, any religion of the book) would be doubly regrettable. A strict ban on religious conversion is in the best interest of all Indians because, to quote the wisdom of a common sense poet, "Good fences make good neighbors".

Evangelism is an irrational impulse, a form of tyranny over the mind.
Freedom of religion is equivalent to freedom from someone's religion.
Hindus have every right to expect that they will not be proselytized away from their own faith and into an all-exclusive, rigid dogma.
Every citizen should be free from foreign sponsored missionary groups.
An individual converting under psychological duress is loosing his very freewill and freedom of choice and conscience.

From a moral standpoint, Hindus respect all religions. But that respect is limited by our own mutual obligation to observe boundaries that have a reasonable relationship to the needs of the society and of the individuals in it. Once a person is converted by devious means, he or she is reduced to creatures of the church in which conformity to generalized mediocrity becomes the rule.

Freedom to propagate hatred, dogma and hostility must be restricted because the ideas expressed in such rigid dogma have led to murder and suffering of millions of people throughout history. Terrorism, social upheaval, community conflict, and hostility towards non-believers are caused in part by the philosophy that underlies the concept of freedom to forcefully convert non-believers. Even the capability to conceive of direct harm to others will be seriously diminished if we restrict coercive religious conversion.

Government should ban religious conversion and the free flow of foreign money for missionary activities. Ban on religious conversion will reinforce our values and identification and that protects our freedom. These are values that would be threatened if religious conversion were carried out extensively. Not everything that can be labeled "free expression" is worth protecting or immune from legal regulation for the general good. Given the gravity of the danger and destruction of missionary activities, anti-conversion alarm is sensible.

Hindus must initiate a much more wide-ranging debate about religious conversion, missionary activities and the free flow of foreign money for conversion activities. Hindus must go on the offensive and stop being baited by those who call our defense of Hindu society as communal. Hindus must stop allowing them to set the agenda for what is and what is not religious freedom.

Our survival as a nation is in crisis. But realistic solutions are within our reach, if we all work together. So I urge you, become activists on behalf our Hindus who have no one else to speak on their behalf, for yourselves, and for the nation.
- - - - - -

Coercive religious conversion of Hindus is one of the most important issues of the day. Religious conversion of Hindus is threatening individuals, families, communities and the nation. Coercive religious conversion of Hindus contains a greater threat to spiritual tradition and the freedom of choice than European colonialism ever posed. If carried unchecked, coercive religious conversion would threaten the very existence of India as a nation.

A dark future

Today as we look down the road toward the future, we see the warning
sign: "Danger Ahead". The danger is not limited to our freedom to practice our Dharma; we see threats to our progress as a democratic, pluralistic society. Christian tyrannical missionary groups are determined to destroy our society, our spiritual way of life and the nation. Armed with a rigid dogma, and millions of foreign money, missionaries are on a warpath to forcefully convert hundreds and thousands of innocent Hindus. If unchecked, coercive religious conversion will have a cataclysmic impact on our freedom.

"Freedom to convert" is counterproductive as a generalized doctrine.
It fails to come to terms with the complex interrelationships between self and society that make the concept of individual choice meaningful. Hence, religious conversion, rather than supporting, it undermines, and in extremes would dissolve, that individual autonomy and human freedom. In effect, it would serve no one, neither the subject, nor the nation. As a rule, missionaries attack cultural symbols, rituals, and samskaraas of Hindus. Hindu symbols and rituals are real and powerful and they influence behavior. Symbols, rituals, festivals and religious practices have the power to unite and motivate people. These are the élan vital of a nation. Individual and society are symbiotic. When an individual is forced out of his/her role into a strange, dogmatic belief system, he/she would have to readjust to the new realities. Forced out of the system of meaningful social bonds, they would begin to lose the sense of identity and symbiotic relationship with the larger society. They would become rudderless ships adjusting to momentary pressures without a sense of direction.
It is this most terrible condition, even worse than death that the missionaries impose on Hindus.

Christianity promotes their sectarian values and symbols over the interests of the society as a whole. Missionaries are trying to deconstruct Hindu society by waging a psychological war. The purpose of the war is to create personal, social and political disorganization. As the war continues, individuals, families, groups and society find it difficult to maintain proper reality orientation.
As the battle progresses, only parts of the problems are seen by the victim, and a collective cognitive disorder sets in. The social and political reality is distorted. As a result, family and community are disorganized. Individuals find it difficult to find the right concepts, ideas, words and thinking will become fragmented. The person and society lose a sense of identity and direction. A sense of cultural continuity and connection disappears almost entirely. This results in distorted thinking and dysfunctional behavior. Individuals act impulsively and blame the culture and religion that provide psychological equilibrium. They act irrationally and join with the oppressor. Eventually, they act as enemy within. Clearly, if the missionaries win finally in their psychological warfare, India as a nation is crushed.

History of repression

Let us turn to a logical examination of several key features of Christian thinking. The religion was founded and its theology elaborated under the dual influence of theocracy and imperialism. Its very conception of truth reflects political environment in which it evolved. It has crystallized orthodoxy, or a core of inalterable dogmas that its followers are expected to steadfastly profess.

Now, it is precisely, such a notion of truth is inappropriate, even dangerous to a pluralistic society. Christian dogmas, by nature are non-deductible and non-negotiable. Where as an open exchange of ideas, a readiness to give and take, is vital to the survival of a pluralistic society.

Christian preaching tends to be a process of indoctrination in unshakable beliefs. Religion as indoctrination is suited to a totalitarian regime intent on not having people think independently.
By contrast, Hinduism helps in liberating, not closing of minds.
Hindus accept free expression, spiritual progression, and freedom of choice. But once converted to Christianity, the church is not eager to cultivate habits of intellectual freedom among its followers.

Missionaries use Biblical quotations to rationalize vested interests of the Church. Very frequently such views systematically distort social reality in much the same way that a neurotic deny, deform or reinterpret aspects of life that are inconsistent to him. Missionary propaganda is deceptive and can be described as the state of mind of a salesman who habitually believes his own propaganda. The church's ideological pretensions are smokescreens to destroy Hindus and the all inclusive, liberating Hindu value system.

When a church group takes a position on a political or social issue, it typically does so by claiming divine inspiration. Not only does this inhibit debate, but also it replaces rational discourse. Citing "God's Will" in a discussion is meant to silence, not convince, an opponent.

The entire history of biblical exegesis shows that almost any personal or collective conviction can find support in divine revelation. Thus, the bible always obliges a true believer by miraculously saying whatever he or she wants it to say. When the true believer quotes "God's Word" to confirm an opinion, what he or she expresses is the wish to raise personal opinion to the level of absolute truth. Put more bluntly, the true believer pretends to speak with godlike authority as if he or she was God. Public discussion, so intrinsic to a democratic society, requires public debate. A democracy is degraded when its members, seduced by the desire to play God, get in the habit of pontificating infallible truths on subjects of public policy. Such a practice must culminate, if unchecked, either in theocracy, or in chaos.

The shackles of Christianity

It is an awkward fact that neither personal liberty nor civil rights have biblical sanction. On the contrary, scripture is at pains to tell us just the reverse: that we must submit all things to the will of a Supreme ruler against whom we have no acerbate rights. The bible is an undemocratic and anti-libertarian text. The Ten Commandments, like the parables of Jesus, say nothing about individual freedoms and rights but a great deal obedience and surrender, and "law" that all must obey. The essence of the bible is thus constraint, not freedom, oppression not liberation.

One does not find in the Christian theology a conception of human beings as having both the right and the ability through Sadhana to control one's destiny. What the bible gives us, in contrast, is a picture of human nature caught powerlessly between two factors--God and Satan--along with the caveat that no "salvation" is possible without total surrender to God's wishes. Concepts such as individual freedom, civil rights, human initiative, and secular programs are basically foreign to holy writ. The believers are docile vassals of the "Lord".

It is wrong to draw ideological parallels between Christianity and Hinduism. It is pointless to contrast dogmas as original sin, eternal damnation, and the absolutism of the Kingdom of God with that of the experiential reality of the Hindu Darshanaas which proclaim: "Each soul is potentially Divine", and teach the authentic way and means to discover, realize and manifest in day to day life the inherent divinity equally present in all.

Hinduism and Christianity represent incompatible modes of thought and irreconcilable value systems. Hinduism is dedicated to individual freedoms and rights. The philosophy of Hinduism and Christianity does not mix. Equating Hinduism (or, indeed, any religion of the book) would be doubly regrettable. A strict ban on religious conversion is in the best interest of all Indians because, to quote the wisdom of a common sense poet, "Good fences make good neighbors".

The value of Religious Freedom

Evangelism is an irrational impulse, a form of tyranny over the mind.
Freedom of religion is equivalent to freedom from someone's religion.
Hindus have every right to expect that they will not be proselytized away from their own faith and into an all-exclusive, rigid dogma.
Every citizen should be free from foreign sponsored missionary groups.
An individual converting under psychological duress is loosing his freewill and freedom of choice and conscience. From a moral standpoint, Hindus respect all religions. But that respect is limited by our own mutual obligation to observe boundaries that have a reasonable relationship to the needs of the society and of the individuals in it. Once a person is converted by devious means, he or she is reduced to creatures of the church in which conformity to generalized mediocrity becomes the rule.

Freedom to propagate hatred, dogma and hostility must be restricted because the ideas expressed in such rigid dogma have led to murder and suffering of millions of people throughout history. The genocidal usurpation of the western hemisphere, the genocidal enslavement of Africans, Hindus, Buddhists, worldwide colonialism, holocaust against Jews and Gypsies, dropping of the atom bomb on Japan, the Vietnam war, colonialism, slavery and apartheid-these are the bitter fruits of Christian propaganda. Christianity is arguably, history's greatest crime against humanity. The solid evidence of history in the long and short term gives proof beyond a reasonable doubt, nay any doubt, that there is no greater social evil than biblical movements. Their dogmatic ideas are like small pox. It is not worth preserving it.

Time for activism

Terrorism, social upheaval, community conflict, and hostility towards non-believers are caused in part by the philosophy that underlies the concept of freedom to forcefully convert non-believers. Even the capability to conceive of direct harm to others will be seriously diminished if we restrict coercive religious conversion.

It is painfully obvious that political leaders, westernized media pundits, and the bureaucrats in India lack the requisite social and political knowledge, and philosophical skills to understand the devious activities of the church. They lack a firm national, religious, cultural commitment. They are driven to extreme and idiosyncratic decision by the lack of historical context of their judgments.

Government should ban religious conversion and the free flow of foreign money for missionary activities. Almost invariably, ban on religious conversion will drive missionaries out of business. For the politicians it is a dilemma. But life is filled with dilemmas that we can attempt to ameliorate but we cannot entirely avoid. Ban on religious conversion will reinforce our values and identification and that protects our freedom. These are values that would be threatened if religious conversion were carried out extensively.

Not everything that can be labeled "free expression" is worth protecting or immune from legal regulation for the general good. Given the gravity of the danger and destruction of missionary activities, anti-conversion alarm is sensible. We should not wait until Christianity takes over India. On the individual level as well as the genocidal level the effects of dogmatic missionary preaching justify its prohibition.

Hindus must initiate a much more wide-ranging debate about religious conversion, missionary activities and the free flow of foreign money for conversion activities. Hindus must go on the offensive and stop being baited by those who call our defense of Hindu society as communal. Hindus must stop allowing them to set the agenda for what is and what is not religious freedom.

Hindus must wage a battle against violence, intolerance, rigidity, and thought control. Hindus must put an end to the imperialistic, missionary culture, and end to religious conversion. It's time to name our real enemies. Our enemies arise in part from our silence, but also from passivity. Our survival as a nation is in crisis. But realistic solutions are within our reach, if we all work together. So I urge you, become activists on behalf our Hindus who have no one else to speak on their behalf, for yourselves, and for the nation.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My addition: These 2 lines needs to find widespread use:

Along with freedom to convert comes freedom to *not* convert.
Christists cry themselves hoarse over the former, but conveniently never talk about the latter.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[G.Subramaniam]

I just watched the history channel
on how england got xtianised

Apparently king endwin of Northumbria
married a xtian and waged a war to force xtianity on his neighbors

just like constantine and mohd

Xtianity has won only with the sword in most places

[Guest]

from Indian Express, link1
from Indian Express, link2
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> BJD-BJP Government in Orissa is <b>closing in on Congress Rajya Sabha member and former civil servant Radhakanta Nayak for his “alleged role in the conspiracy to kill Lakshmanananda Saraswati.”
</b>
Sources say that Nayak, the most high-profile Christian political leader in the State, may be arrested shortly. The Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) has alleged that the plot to kill Lakshamananda Saraswati was “hatched in the presence of Nayak.”

The Criminal Investigation Department (CID) of Orissa police is said to be preparing a case against Nayak and his supporters.

Though CID officials refused to comment whether they considered Nayak as one of the suspects, they said: “The mastermind has been identified and he is now out of Orissa.” <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Nayak, a former IAS officer, was once short-listed for the post of Union cabinet secretary during the Deve Gowda regime.

He could not make it to the post but in 2004,<b> he was elected to the Rajya Sabha on a Congress ticket. In Kandhamal,</b> he is known as the protector of churches and Pano (Dalit) Christians.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

Have the likes of Naidu and Amma converted to Christianity? It really hurts when people like these two resort to such activities. Naidu had literally placed Hyderabad on the Global IT Maps. Amma had brought several Government Orders that I thought was well placed (but eventually rolled back out of electoral calcuations). It is one thing when MuKa goes to Iftaar Parties, his anti-Hindu stance is well known. But Amma and Naidu gaaru? It really makes things look dark out in the future (to borrow from Dr. Babu's essay).

[Guest]

It reinforces my belief that this country's vimochanam lies not in the ballot box (secularism) which is converting Hindus to Christianity and Islam while the country's wealth is slolen and stashed away in swizz banks by the secularist corrupt masters (monsters).

[Guest]

<b>Congress MP RK Nayak is on run as CB starts chasing</b>
http://www.odishatoday.com/orissa/Congress...starts_ch\
asing_271208-4858174966.html
By Our Correspondent
Last updated: 12/28/2008
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Bhubaneswar ( Orissa): If sources manning Police Headquarters in
Cuttack are to be believed, Crime Branch of Orissa Police would soon
arrest high profile bureaucrat turned Rajya Sabha Member of Congress,
Radhakant Nayak in connection with the brutal murder of Swami
Laxmananda Saraswati and four his disciples.

The Hindu Seer and his disciples were gunned down by armed militants
at Jalespata Ashram in Tumulibandha Police limits of Kandhamal
district on August 23 this year. The police have already arrested
seven people, including some Maoists, for the murder.

<b>"Nayak was mastermind of the whole event and played a key in the
murder case," the Crime Branch, which is probing the issue, reportedly
summed up the case. The CB would soon arrest Nayak, who is a close aid
of Sonia Gandhi after preparing a charge sheet.</b>

Crime Branch has reportedly found credible evidence against Nayak and
it would found no difficulty in putting the Church leader behind bar
for his role in Swamiji murder case.

Nayak's arrest was apparent from the fact that Rashtriya Swayamsevak
Sangh has been insisting his role behind the murder case and handed
over several evidences to the investigating officials against the MP.

The investigating officials are preparing a case against Nayak and his
supporters, sources added. "We can't disclose right now, but we are
reaching out to the killers soon," a top Police official said in
condition of anonymity.

It may be noted here that www.odishatoday.com had first broke a news
under the headline of " Crime Branch sleuths chasing Congress RS
Member Radhakant Nayak ' on October 28. The report is gradually
turning credible with investigating officials zeroing on Nayak.

A senior official said the murder of the Seer was the result of a
conspiracy hatched soon after the December 2007 riots.<b> "It was a
thorough professional job. Someone else hatched the initial plan. A
separate group did the actual planning to kill Saraswati while another
group trained the group of killers," </b>they added.

"In fact, we have listed a dozen names including MP Nayak in
connection with the murder case and charge sheet in this regard, will
be submitted very soon," a top Crime Branch official added.
'Master-Mind' at the moment is out of State but we are trying very
hard to locate him, he added.

Nayak who served the Central government as Secretary was short-listed
for the post of Union Cabinet Secretary during H. D. Deve Gowda
Government. <b>Being a Dalit-Christian socialist, leaders including
Ramvilas Paswan and Sharad Yadav had backed his candidature then.

However some adverse IB report against him came as a hurdle.</b> In 2004
he was elected to Rajya Sabha on Congress ticket. Hindutava forces
always suspected his hand behind the killing. Alleged involvement of
Nayak would also help BJP to target Sonia Gandhi and her appeasement
policies.

<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, let's see if and when they will actually arrest this crook and murderer
being secular and all..... <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='rolleyes.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Shambhu]

More peace..I'm sorry, more Love. Jesus loves you. Apparently, He loves you more after those who love him a bit still more have killed you. Or something like that...
-------------------------------------

From Shadow Warrior:


The brutal intra-Christian massacre death toll in Uganda now runs in 100s.... Please see this article

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081229/ap_on_..._tsg3riVgb9xg8F

The Lord's Resistance Army rebel group has waged one of Africa's longest and most brutal wars for the last two decades. In the past, aid and rights groups have accused the rebels of cutting off the lips of civilians and forcing thousands of children to serve as soldiers or sex slaves. The conflict has spilled out of northern Uganda and into Sudan and Congo.
"The scene at the church was unbelievable. It was horrendous. On the floor were dead bodies of mostly women and children cut in pieces," Magezi told The Associated Press. He blamed the Lord's Resistance Army for the massacre and quoted witnesses as saying the rebels used machetes, clubs and swords in Friday's attack.



File photo of a woman in 2006 in northern Uganda who escaped capture by the Lord's Resistance Army -- but not before they cut off her lips, nose and ears. The rebels killed almost 200 people in a campaign in northeast Democratic Republic of Congo, a UN agency said in a report released Monday.

(AFP/File/Tugela Ridley)

[G.Subramaniam]

http://www.odishatoday.com/orissa/Radhakan...4812749824.html

Bhubaneswar ( Orissa): Congress Rajya Sabha MP and former IAS officer Radhakant Nayak has sought help of the All India Congress Committee to escape from the Swami Laxmananda Saraswati murder case.

The move of Nayak, who is a close aid of AICC chief Sonia Gandhi for his Church background, came after media reports indicated his possible arrest in connection with the murder case.

Privileged sources on Sunday revealed that Nayak, 1962 Batch IAS officer, has taken up the issue with Sonia Gandhi and other senior Congress leaders and pleading him innocent and he had no role in the murder case.

So, after a closed door meeting, Sonia Gandhi asked AICC Orissa In-Charge Ajay Maken to issue a statement to defend the MP. As per the decision, Maken in his media statement termed the reports as "politically motivated" and "malicious".

Maken in his statement said, that the allegations were "nothing but malevolent assumptions with no element of reasoned evidence in its support".

The attempt was to divert attention from the "miserable performance" of the State police, perhaps under directions from its political masters, he said.

Joining Maken, AICC Spokesperson Shakeel Ahmed said, "It all seems politically motivated. After a gap of so many months, the (BJD-BJP) Government comes to know that somebody other than the original claimant of the crime (Maoists) is responsible for it.

Nayak also denied the allegations saying that the crime allegedly attributed to him was "beyond his nature and against his character". In a statement, he said that the report was "totally false and absurd" and was a "deliberate attempt to malign me and my political party."

Nayak who served the Central Government as Secretary was short-listed for the post of Union Cabinet Secretary during H. D. Deve Gowda Government. Being a Dalit-Christian socialist, leaders including Ramvilas Paswan and Sharad Yadav had backed his candidature then.

However some adverse IB report against him came as a hurdle. In 2004 he was elected to Rajya Sabha on Congress ticket. Hindutava forces always suspected his hand behind the killing. Alleged involvement of Nayak would also help BJP to target Sonia Gandhi and her appeasement policies.

[G.Subramaniam]

http://christiantheology.wordpress.com/200...ndian-violence/

Understanding & Defining Maoist–Christian Connection

Vishal Mangalwadi

There are remote villages in Orissa where police officers are terrified to go.

An internet report explains the situation: The Maoists kidnapped a man they suspected to be police informer. To teach others a lesson, they brought him back to his village, hacked him in front of his horrified family, and ate him up as villagers watched.

Evangelists, however, do go into some of these villages and preach the Gospel. This is how it works: Maoists escort the evangelists into the village and summon everyone to hear the Gospel. The evangelists may show a film such as “Jesus”. Half-way through the film the Maoists would stop the film and give a lecture on Maoism. Then they would resume the film and ask the evangelists to give an Alter Call. Following a fellowship meal the evangelists will be escorted back to their base!

Frontline evangelists have reported such incidents to their mission leaders. Christian leaders have not reported them to their supporters because (a) many of them can’t make sense of what they are hearing and (b) they are also embarrassed by the fact that their mission is supported by “terrorists.” What are they to do?

Well, what exactly is happening?

1. At the simplest level, Maoists and the evangelists may come from the same ethnic group (caste or tribe) and may even be related. It is not unusual for one brother to follow Mao while the other chooses to follow Christ.
2. Christians nurtured on books such as “Tortured for Christ” see Communists as enemies. But that Communism is now dead. In Nepal and India Maoists understand Marxism to mean that Hinduism is the opiate of the masses.
3. Maoists accept the Ambedkarite belief that Hinduism is the root of India’s backwardness. Since everyone cannot follow them into the jungles, the least Maoists want them to do is to get out of a socio-religious system that has enslaved them.
4. The Maoists also know that Marxist economic system has failed. Like the Communists in China and Nepal, they suspect that Christianity has something to do with the relative success of the West, even if neither the evangelist nor Jesus film can explain to them what Christ has to do with the West’s incredible progress.

So, how should the Church respond?

(i) It serves no purpose to suppress the fact that grass root level relationships exist between Maoists, Christians and evangelists. Surely our intelligence agencies know why evangelists are able to go into villages where their brave officers cannot go. In any case, the whole world knows that Maoists killed a Hindu leader to defend Christians. Why? The world will define the relationship unless the Church defines it and educates frontline workers to use their relationships redemptively.
(ii) The evangelists need literature that communicates the “good news” to the highly indoctrinated and motivated poor who are turning to Maoism for justice and progress.
(iii) Educated, urban Christians need to reach out to build positive relationships with leaders of various Communist parties in India. The Church has not done that because for most of the last century, Communists persecuted Christians wherever they could. Most Christians, therefore, consider Communism to be an enemy. But that is living in the past. The following anecdotes illustrate our changing reality:

China: Recently, I participated in a secular conference in a Western nation along with several Chinese scholars. The oldest Chinese professor was also a senior member of the ruling Communist Party in China. On the last full day of this secular conference he asked for and was baptized by his Chinese friends. Later he told us that a few months before coming for this conference he had started formal discussions within his party to open up to religion.

India: For decades the Communist parties in India had identified the Congress Party as their Enemy # 1 and the West as their Enemy #2. Four years ago, they voted in favor of making Mrs. Sonia Gandhi – an Italian born, Roman Catholic woman – the Prime Minister of India. Why did they do so?

Obviously, many factors favored that decision, but for me the most amazing explanation came from an Indian software expert who called from Chicago. “You do not know me, Dr. Mangalwadi,” he said, “but I have tracked you down because I have interesting news for you. Several years ago I was working for a software company in Hyderabad and I used to be in and out of the Parliament House in Delhi for work. I bought 70 copies of your book Missionary Conspiracy: Letters to a Postmodern Hindu” and gave them to the Members of Parliament that I met.

“Now I work for a US Company and I was back in the Parliament House on behalf of this Company. I ran into Mr. [xyz], a General Secretary of a Communist Party. He asked me, ‘Are you the gentleman who gave me a copy of the letters to Arun Shourie?’

“When I told him, I was, he said, ‘You know it was because of that book that we decided to support Sonia Gandhi. That book told us how good Christianity has been for India and we thought may be, as a Christian she too will be good for our country.’”

Orissa: All observers are aware that various Communist parties and forums are visiting Orissa and issuing statements in favor of “persecuted Christians.” Is it just because the elections are around and they are fishing in troubled waters? Some of them may be doing nothing more than that. But it is also possible that like their counterparts in China, Indian Communists and Maoists are also looking for their soul – a religious worldview that will save their souls and emancipate India from her shackles.

This is one reason why I think it is shortsighted to condemn the Maoists for killing Swami Laxamananda Saraswati. By apologizing for that murder the Church would condemn the murder but own the murders. If peace is our national interest, then bringing Maoists to the Prince of Peace would best serve our national interest.

[For a discussion of my proposal please see the next write up.]

www.vishalmangalwadi.com

[G.Subramaniam]

Bump - Ramana, please post above in the oriss thread at BRF

[G.Subramaniam]

http://www.vishalmangalwadi.com/vkmWebSite...ce_to_India.pdf

Christmas May Not Bring Peace to India
Vishal Mangalwadi
www.VishalMangalwadi.com
Pasadena
November 23, 2008
Christmas ‘09 is unlikely to bring peace to India, least of all to Christians in Orissa. This is
mainly because the vocal section of the Indian Christian leadership has chosen to pursue NOT
peace but condemnation of Hindus, Maoists, Government and those calling for peace-making.
The Christmas could see more churches and Christian homes go up in flames than ever because:
(i) About a hundred thousand religious and “militant” Hindus gathered in Orissa on
November 15 to issue an ultimatum to the State Government: “Arrest the murderers of
Swami Laxamanda Saraswati by December 15, ‘09 or we will organize a state-wide
Bandh (General Strike) on Christmas Day (Dec 25, ‘o9).” There are good reasons to
believe that local Hindus would like to loot Christians and possess their homes, fields
and businesses, while some political Hindus would like to spread the violence nationwide
to foment communal hatred and influence the outcome of 2009 Parliamentary
elections.
I hope that none of this will happen but the worst case scenario is that Hindus will chase
Christians into jungles and the army will follow them to hunt down the “Maoists.”
Remember Mahatma Gandhi called for India’s first ever non-violent Bandh (General
Strike) in March/April 1919 to protest the Rowlatt Act. The Bandh led to the murder of a
few Englishmen which culminated in the massacre of Jallianwalla Bagh that killed at
least 379 Indians and injured a thousand. (More on this below.)
(ii) Pro-Christian Maoists (who practice the precept of China’s late Chairman Mao Zedong
that political power comes from bullets, not ballots) have already released their hit list
naming specific Hindu leaders they plan to kill for instigating violent attacks on
Christians during the two riots of last winter and this August-September. The world has
a right to ask: Why do the Maoists love Christians so much that they will go out to kill
Hindus who oppose conversions?
(iii) Indian Christian leadership (a) deceives none but itself by asserting that no connection
exists between Christians and the Maoists who murdered the Swami for harassing
Christians and are threatening to kill other Hindu leaders because they are opposed to
conversions. On 16th October, in an interview to the Press Trust of India, Mr Arun Ray,
the Inspector General of Police, said that "Maoists were given money to train certain
youth of a particular community [i.e., Christian] to eliminate Saraswati."
Also, the Church (b) deceives the world by projecting Orissa violence as “religious
persecution.” The fact is that neither of the two violent attacks in Orissa started as
religious persecution: Swami Laxmanda began turning a socio-economic campaign into
a religious conflict and a naïve Christian leadership played into his hands and is turning
it into religious persecution through a spin that has been simplistic at best and deceptive
at worst.
[The phrase “religious persecution” should be reserved for a situation where a religious
community is attacked for practicing or propagating its faith, not when it is attacked for
making demands for affirmative action programs that threaten other communities or
because it is believed to have assassinated a revered leader of another community
(directly or indirectly).]
(iv) The following (revised) write-ups propose (a) A practical agenda for making peace (b)
Explain the conflict and © Call Christians to have the courage to own responsibility and
exercise leadership in peace-making. In brief, my suggestion is that in order to initiate a
process of reconciliation, a group of Christian leaders should go to the site where Swami
Laxmananda was murdered, offer an apology and fast and pray for 24 hours as an act of
penance. Some Christian leaders have already rejected my suggestion. In the following
write-ups I am answering their objections.
1. Least Told. . . Most Important. . .Orissa Story: Moist–Christian Connection
2. Peace-Making: The Church Should Apologize for the Murder of the Hindu Leader
3. Relief, Human Rights, Disciple-Making, Peace Making: What is Important in Orissa?
4. Hinduism’s Triple Trouble: Mao, Christ and Ambedkar
5. Comments on Two Controversies: Reservations and Conversions
One
Least Told . . . Most Important . . . Orissa story
Understanding & Defining Maoist–Christian Connection
Vishal Mangalwadi
There are remote villages in Orissa where police officers are terrified to go.
An internet report explains the situation: The Maoists kidnapped a man they suspected to be
police informer. To teach others a lesson, they brought him back to his village, hacked him in
front of his horrified family, and ate him up as villagers watched.
Evangelists, however, do go into some of these villages and preach the Gospel. This is how it
works: Maoists escort the evangelists into the village and summon everyone to hear the Gospel.
The evangelists may show a film such as “Jesus”. Half-way through the film the Maoists would
stop the film and give a lecture on Maoism. Then they would resume the film and ask the
evangelists to give an Alter Call. Following a fellowship meal the evangelists will be escorted
back to their base!
Frontline evangelists have reported such incidents to their mission leaders. Christian leaders
have not reported them to their supporters because (a) many of them can’t make sense of what
they are hearing and (b) they are also embarrassed by the fact that their mission is supported by
“terrorists.” What are they to do?
Well, what exactly is happening?
1. At the simplest level, Maoists and the evangelists may come from the same ethnic group
(caste or tribe) and may even be related. It is not unusual for one brother to follow Mao
while the other chooses to follow Christ.
2. Christians nurtured on books such as “Tortured for Christ” see Communists as enemies.
But that Communism is now dead. In Nepal and India Maoists understand Marxism to
mean that Hinduism is the opiate of the masses.
3. Maoists accept the Ambedkarite belief that Hinduism is the root of India’s
backwardness. Since everyone cannot follow them into the jungles, the least Maoists
want them to do is to get out of a socio-religious system that has enslaved them.
4. The Maoists also know that Marxist economic system has failed. Like the Communists in
China and Nepal, they suspect that Christianity has something to do with the relative
success of the West, even if neither the evangelist nor Jesus film can explain to them
what Christ has to do with the West’s incredible progress.
So, how should the Church respond?
(i) It serves no purpose to suppress the fact that grass root level relationships exist
between Maoists, Christians and evangelists. Surely our intelligence agencies know
why evangelists are able to go into villages where their brave officers cannot go. In
any case, the whole world knows that Maoists killed a Hindu leader to defend
Christians. Why? The world will define the relationship unless the Church defines it
and educates frontline workers to use their relationships redemptively.
(ii) The evangelists need literature that communicates the “good news” to the highly
indoctrinated and motivated poor who are turning to Maoism for justice and
progress.
(iii) Educated, urban Christians need to reach out to build positive relationships with
leaders of various Communist parties in India. The Church has not done that because
for most of the last century, Communists persecuted Christians wherever they could.
Most Christians, therefore, consider Communism to be an enemy. But that is living
in the past. The following anecdotes illustrate our changing reality:
China: Recently, I participated in a secular conference in a Western nation along
with several Chinese scholars. The oldest Chinese professor was also a senior
member of the ruling Communist Party in China. On the last full day of this secular
conference he asked for and was baptized by his Chinese friends. Later he told us that
a few months before coming for this conference he had started formal discussions
within his party to open up to religion.
India: For decades the Communist parties in India had identified the Congress
Party as their Enemy # 1 and the West as their Enemy #2. Four years ago, they voted
in favor of making Mrs. Sonia Gandhi – an Italian born, Roman Catholic woman –
the Prime Minister of India. Why did they do so?
Obviously, many factors favored that decision, but for me the most amazing
explanation came from an Indian software expert who called from Chicago. “You do
not know me, Dr. Mangalwadi,” he said, “but I have tracked you down because I have
interesting news for you. Several years ago I was working for a software company in
Hyderabad and I used to be in and out of the Parliament House in Delhi for work. I
bought 70 copies of your book Missionary Conspiracy: Letters to a Postmodern
Hindu” and gave them to the Members of Parliament that I met.
“Now I work for a US Company and I was back in the Parliament House on behalf of
this Company. I ran into Mr. [xyz], a General Secretary of a Communist Party. He
asked me, ‘Are you the gentleman who gave me a copy of the letters to Arun Shourie?’
“When I told him, I was, he said, ‘You know it was because of that book that we
decided to support Sonia Gandhi. That book told us how good Christianity has been
for India and we thought may be, as a Christian she too will be good for our
country.’”
Orissa: All observers are aware that various Communist parties and forums are
visiting Orissa and issuing statements in favor of “persecuted Christians.” Is it just
because the elections are around and they are fishing in troubled waters? Some of
them may be doing nothing more than that. But it is also possible that like their
counterparts in China, Indian Communists and Maoists are also looking for their
soul – a religious worldview that will save their souls and emancipate India from her
shackles.
This is one reason why I think it is shortsighted to condemn the Maoists for killing
Swami Laxamananda Saraswati. By apologizing for that murder the Church would
condemn the murder but own the murders. If peace is our national interest, then
bringing Maoists to the Prince of Peace would best serve our national interest.
[For a discussion of my proposal please see the next write up.]
Two
A Radical Proposal For Peace
(An Appeal to India’s Christian Leaders)
Christian leaders, including the Pope, have condemned the recent murders of the Hindu leaders
by the Maoists in Orissa. Hindus – at least the Sangh Parivar – have dismissed these
condemnations as a hypocritical game that politicians play.
For good reasons, the condemnation only undermines the moral authority of the Church
because the need is to explain why Maoists are standing up for the Church and to apologize for
the murders committed on behalf of the Church.
Why should the Church apologize for murders it did not commit or ask for?
Why did Jesus go to the cross for sins that he did not commit?
If Jesus could take our sin upon him, surely the Church can consider taking the sins of the
Maoists upon it to bring forgiveness, healing, reconciliation and peace.
The next round of conflict in Orissa is likely to be bloodier than the previous two, because even if
only 100 Christian youth are learning from the Maoists, they will be a dreadful force. They will
bring out the army, which is already stationed in those sensitive areas. (So far the army was
prevented from engaging the Maoists because the Communists were a part of the UPA
Government. Now the Congress would have to use the army to crush Maoists partly to win some
Hindu votes.) If the Hindus in Orissa cannot stand up to "Christians" and Maoists, the militant
Hindu groups would take revenge against Christians all over the country. The violence will be
spread also because the Hindutva forces do not have many cards left for the coming general
election.
A fresh round of communal violence will not be good for anyone and it will hurt our national
image at a time when India needs to attract foreign investment, especially in poor states such as
Orissa, Bihar, Jharkhand and Chhattisgarh.
The Church is doing all it can to bring relief to the victims of the last two rounds of violence.
That is necessary and commendable but the Church also needs to focus on the important
mission of just peace and reconciliation. Therefore, may I submit the following proposal for
your consideration and explain the theological and practical rationale behind it?
THE PROPOSAL
Background: In 1919 (following his meditations on 1 Corinthians 13) Mahatma Gandhi
called for a non-violent India Bandh (nation-wide strike) to protest the Rowlatt Act. His
followers disregarded his clear instructions that the agitation must remain non-violent
and killed a few Englishmen in Punjab and Gujarat and assaulted an Englishwoman.
Mahatma Gandhi suspended the agitation and called upon his followers to repent and
fast for 24-hours as an act of penance. He went on to take his followers’ wickedness upon
himself and as penance decided to fast for 72 hours. (The massacre in Jallianwalla Bagh
had happened the day before these announcements, but Gandhi knew nothing about it.)
Proposal: A group of Christian leaders should go to the Jalespeta Ashram where
Swami Laxmananda Saraswati was murdered and in front of the national media and
offer unconditional apology for his murder. As an act of penance for the sins of the
Maoists, Christian leaders should spend 24-hours in fasting and prayer. After that they
should call upon some national leaders, public intellectuals and celebrities to help bring
about reconciliation and peace.
This proposal implies that the Church should own the moral responsibility for the
murders and, more importantly, should own the pro-Christian Maoists as our children
who have been misled by a mistaken ideology. A sincere apology will shock the nation
and give the Church the right to:
1. Ask national leaders such as Atal Bihari Vajpayee, V. P. Singh, Sonia Gandhi, some
Hindu leaders and celebrities (such as Amitabh Bachhan) - to go to Orissa to meet with
the representatives of the Government, Oriya Christians, Hindus, Tribals and the
Maoists to initiate a process of reconciliation. A Hindu leader may choose to apologies
for the violence committed by the Hindus and offer compensation to Christian families
who lost loved ones.
2. The Church leaders should obtain from the government an assurance of safe passage for
the Maoists to be able to meet with them first privately and then to organize meetings
between the Government, national leaders and the Maoists to initiate a healing process
and addressing the issues of poverty, corruption and inequality.
3. Christian leaders should also meet with the leaders of Dalit Christians, Tribals and the
Government, to find either a resolution to the demand of Reservations for poor
Christians or find credible alternatives to help them out of their poverty (e.g.
establishment of good schools, colleges, technical education, universities and industries).
RATIONALE
(1) "Why should the Church apologize for a murder it did not commit or ask for?"
The Church cannot deny that the Maoists killed the Swami for the Church. Therefore
it has to answer questions such as: Why did Maoists kill the Swami on behalf of the
Church? Did the Church pay the Maoists? Did Maoists train Christian youth? Did the
gang that killed include some Christian youth?
The Maoists have loved Christians enough to go out and kill on their behalf. Now the
Church needs to love the Maoists enough to embrace them and reform them. It is
foolish to see them as enemies. They are rejecting Hinduism for Marxist-
Ambedkarite reasons explained in the accompanying article. They have been helping
some frontline evangelists preach the Gospel in remote villages. As the attached
article shows, by killing a few more Hindu leaders they will thrust the church and the
nation into a far bigger mess. If that happens, Indian Church will go out again asking
for more money for relief. Theologically and practically, it is more important that the
Church should become a proactive peace-maker.
(2) Even thought the Church condemned the murder of the Swami, the Hindus
dismissed it as hypocrisy. It was seen to be a game, because some Roman Catholic
spokespeople had warned the Bishops of the growing nexus between Christian youth
and the Maoists. Evangelical leaders were aware that Maoists had been helping
frontline evangelists.
Condemning the murder implies condemning those who risked the gallows in order
to defend Christians whom neither the Government nor the Church was able to
protect. It appears hypocritical to the Hindus and alienates the Maoists who have
rejected Hinduism and are in search of a new home.
(3) An apology would imply owning the murderers, while disowning the murder.
(4) For a century, Marxists have opposed or killed Christians. Now they are opposing
and killing Hindus and many of them from China to India are opening their minds to
Christ. This gives the Church a unique opportunity to embrace Marxists of various
kinds and reform or educate them. The Church cannot approve of the violence, but it
cannot establish peace unless it embraces Maoists. The Maoists will go neither into
the arms of Hindu leaders nor of army generals. The Church leaders will need to have
Christ-like courage to embrace “sinners” and social outcasts.
(5) In embracing and owning the Maoists the Church would not do anything different
than what the Hindus and the Congress did in embracing say Subhash Chandra Bose
or Shaheed Bhagat Singh. Both the Congress and Bose were opposed to the British
Raj and wanted freedom. The Congress was opposed to killing the British, Bose
attempted to kill them. In spite of its commitment to non-violence, the Congress
chose to honor him and helped rehabilitate his army. India Inc has driven the
Maoists into the jungles. The Church can serve the nation by bringing them back into
the mainstream by embracing them and talking to them and championing their just
grievances.
Vishal@VishalMangalwadi.com
THREE
Relief, Human Rights, Disciple-Making or Peace-Making:
What is Important in Orissa?
Friday, November 14, 2008
From: Vishal Mangalwadi
RELIEF:
During the August-September Hindu-Christian conflict in Orissa, almost 4,500 houses were
burnt and 50,000 people were displaced from their homes, fields and work. These people have
to be housed and fed. Their legal needs have to be met. Therefore relief is necessary and some
Christians are doing commendable work that deserves praise and support.
However, the victims cannot return to rebuild their homes and work unless some communal
harmony is re-established. The latter requires peace-making. The riots have created communal
disharmony; prolonged legal battles could breed animosity among neighbors. That will be
unfortunate. The victims may need legal help, but they certainly need pastoral help to rejoice in
their suffering and to find healing through forgiveness and reconciliation. I am not aware if a
serious beginning has been made in this direction as of now.
The Church and the NGO’s involved in relief should invite some high profile Hindu leaders and
groups to donate money for relief and peace-making (see below) and to personally go to the
affected villages to distribute relief money to victims of all faiths and help re-establish peace.
Just Peace is a pre-condition for education, infra-structural and industrial development and
economic progress of all communities.
HUMAN RIGHTS
1. Conversion: The fact that 50,000 people have chosen to live in jungles and refugee
camps rather than “reconvert” to Hinduism shows that these people find Hinduism
enslaving and oppressive.
The Government of Orissa needs to respect their right to choose their faith.
Three forces are opposed to conversions: Sangh Parivar, secular elite and theologically
“Liberal” Christians. Three groups see conversion as essential to liberation: Maoists (see
the “Least Told Orissa Story”), Ambedkarites and biblical Christians. Maoists along with
the Marxists of various shades see Hinduism as the opiate of the people in India and
Nepal; Ambedkarites believe that Brahminism is the cause of India’s backwardness; and
the Bible teaches that false deities, doctrines and demons enslave, while truth liberates.
Therefore, these three groups want everyone to have the right to seek truth.
However, the two opposing perceptions make Conversion a controversial topic. Swami
Laxmananda Saraswati, the Hindu leader murdered by the Maoists, had a right to teach
that conversion is wrong and ought to be stopped. However, the Government had a
responsibility to ensure that the pro-conversion and anti-conversion activities are carried
on with civility; without coercion or inducements. The Government did not use the law
to restrain him, so the Maoists did it illegally – although in line with their perception of
what is morally permissible.
1. Reservations: Whatever one thinks about the affirmative action programs known as
Reservations, the fact remains that the Government can eliminate an important source
of conflict in Orissa by choosing to treat the Scheduled Castes the same way it treats the
Scheduled Tribes – i.e. by giving them the right to choose their faith and remain a part of
their caste, deriving whatever “Reservation” benefits the law gives to their caste.
Reservations may be a bad idea (and in principle, I don’t like the policy), but if
Reservations are a part of the official remedy for backwardness, then they need to be
implemented justly, not as a means of promoting Brahminical social order.
Conversion is a Human Rights issue and Reservation for Scheduled Caste Christians has become
a Justice issue because even a bad policy has to be implemented justly. Some Christian forums
have championed both of these issues (even though at times they talk of Reservations as a
Human Rights issue). I have discussed some aspects of Conversions and Reservations in an
accompanying article. Here it is enough to say that one problem with these Christian forums is
that each time a national debate on conversion is called for they back out of it on the ground that
the Constitution guarantees the right to propagate one’s religion. The reality is that since
religious tolerance, i.e. the freedom to choose one’s faith, is not a part of our traditionally
oppressive family, caste, religious or social ethos, a national debate on conversion has to take
place. The society has to resolve whether it will practice tolerance or bigotry.
DISCIPLE-MAKING
Some Christian leaders are suggesting that the only thing needed in Orissa is to make true
disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ through house churches. Indeed, reports from Orissa suggest
that for many, religious conversion has meant merely a change of religious label but not a
straightening of moral crookedness. The new converts are reported to have no qualms about
cheating their tribal neighbors, the government, the NGOs, and the Church. This is said to be an
important reason why tribals hate Scheduled Caste converts to Christ.
I tend to believe some of these shameful reports and therefore I have no doubt that a huge influx
of relief money without training in biblical godliness will create fresh problems and will discredit
the name of Christ.
Even if one rejects the idea that house churches are more important than church buildings,
there is no doubt that it is far more important to build godly disciples than to rebuild burnt
down churches.
PEACE-MAKING
In the name of a Revolution, the Maoists are attracting young people and threatening “peace”
because for thousands of years our people have been enslaved under an unjust and oppressive
social order. There was peace, but the kind that exists in a cemetery: where no one makes a
noise or creates a conflict. Rhetoric of “Revolution” attracts because our social order does need
transformation.
However, a full-fledged Maoist-Army conflict will make it difficult to continue relief,
development, and pursuit of human rights or disciple-making. If Maoists murder more Hindu
leaders in defense of the Church, then the church will pay for it in many parts of India.
Therefore, in its own interest, if not in obedience to the Lord, the Church needs to devise
aggressive and sincere strategies for establishing just peace in violence prone areas of Orissa.
It is tempting to think that we may have peace if conversions are stopped and all energies are
focused on serving the poor. The reality is that many in the Sangh Parivar dislike Christian
service to the poor as much as they hate pure evangelism. Some of them think that pure
evangelism is ineffective therefore harmless. For them, it is Christian service that is dangerous
because it attracts the poor to Christ. It is hard to see things the way the Hindus see them
because Hinduism has a genuine difficulty in understanding Christian service. The Hindu
philosophy of karma and caste prevented Hinduism from developing a tradition of service from
its own internal spiritual resources. (The service that Hindus do have now is largely imitative.)
• A credible start for peace-making mission will require a public apology for the murder of
Swami Laxmananda Saraswati by pro-Christian Maoists. The Church has condemned the
murder, but that condemnation comes across as hypocritical. The fact is that the murder
was committed on behalf of the Christian community, even if no Christian asked for it,
paid for it, or accompanied the Maoists. It is legitimate for Hindus to ask “Why do the
Maoists love you so much that they will go out and kill for you?”
• Even if every Christian persecuted by the Swami condemned the murder sincerely, that
condemnation would imply condemning the murderers. Yet, the murderers, even if none
of them had anything to do with the Church, stood up for the Church, therefore, the
Church needs to own them as our own misguided children (see the “Least Told Orissa
Story”). Since the Maoists feel the pain of poverty, oppression and corruption most
intensely, no one can establish peace without involving their participation in peacemaking.
• Practical strategies for peace-making will need to be developed by those on the ground.
My suggestions are meant only to start us thinking: After apologizing for the murder of
the Swami, the Church should ask the Hindu community, including the BJP and the RSS,
to donate Rs. One Crore (i.e. ten million) to establish an educational fund for the
children left orphaned by the riots. A part of this money should be kept in the name of
individual children in banks as Fixed Deposits and the rest should be kept for
scholarships for university and vocational training in a Trust consisting of eminent
Hindus and Christians, who will manage the trust to promote communal peace and
harmony.
The Hindus, the state Government and the nation needs peace in Orissa and the Lord Jesus has
asked his disciples to be peace-makers. Therefore, the Church must move beyond relief,
evangelism and human rights to an aggressive mission of making peace.
FOUR
Hinduism’s Triple Trouble:
Mao, Ambedkar and Christ
(Many have heard of how Hindus are persecuting Christians in Orissa, India. In this report an Indian
Christian thinker looks at the trouble Hinduism is facing in its homelands.)
Dr. Vishal Mangalwadi
(Author of India: The Grand Experiment)
• On 18 May 2006, the Maoists in Nepal forced the world’s only “Hindu” nation to discard
its Hindu identity in favor of a “secular” one.
• On August 23, 2008, in India’s eastern state of Orissa, a group of 20-40 pro-Christian
Maoists (some armed with AK 47 rifles) gunned down revered Hindu leader Swami
Laxamananda Saraswati along with his four associates. The Swami had been forcing
lower caste Christians to reconvert to Hinduism and had instigated large scale violence
against them during December 2007 and January 2008.
• Militant Hindus retaliated to the Swami’s ghastly murder by killing over 40 Christians,
injuring hundreds, raping a nun, burning hundreds of homes and churches, and driving
approximately 50,000 Christians into jungles and refugee camps.
• Those in the refugee camps pray, but Intelligence Officers suspect that some of those in
the jungles are also learning the art of using a rifle. The Maoists had trained 20,000
guerillas before these Christians were driven to the forests. Now, the Maoist ranks may
swell with Christian youth who have lost everything at the hands of Hindu arsonists.
They have nothing more to lose but much to gain from learning how to get money from
officials (who extract bribes from everyone) and eventually to rob banks (owned by a
government which did not prevent the arsonists from looting their homes, businesses
and whole villages).
• Pro-Christian Maoists in Orissa have already warned a number of specific Hindu leaders
responsible for anti-Christian violence that they are next on their hit list.
• A few hundred “Christian-Maoist” guerillas will change the power-equation in Orissa. By
refusing to defend their families the government gives to the Maoists the ethical right to
self-defense. However, once they move beyond defense to revenge they destroy the image
Christianity has built up by two centuries of humanitarian service and developing
democratic institutions of civilized life. For the next generation of Indians, Christian
guerillas may define what Christianity means just as terrorists now define Islam.
• Today (on October 31, 2008) the ten million strong women’s wing of the Communist
Party of India (Marxist – not Maoists) has made public its decision to support the
Catholic nun raped by the Hindus.
• (Why would a political party in need of Hindu majority vote stand up for a despised,
persecuted minority? It is a principled stand but it is also possible that the Communists
are seeing that a social revolution is taking place in Orissa: 50,000 people have chosen to
live in jungles and refugee camps rather than reconvert to Hinduism! The Communists
may be agreeing with Mahanta Krushna Charan Dash Goswami, President of the Matha
Mandir Surakhsya Parishad that Hinduism is being reduced to a minority religion in
some pockets of Orissa.)
• At least one good American Christian (presumably, unaware of the Christian-Maoist
nexus) has asked his Congressman if he should help Christians in Orissa buy guns.
• In the neighboring state of Chhattisgarh, the Government and the upper caste Hindus
tried to create an armed force called “Peace Mission” (Salwa Judum) to counter Maoist
insurgency. In March 2007, three hundred armed Maoists retaliated by invading the
Police camp with rifles, grenades and petrol bombs. They killed 55 of the 79 “Security”
forces, without losing even one of their members.
• Consequently, the Prime Minister of India acknowledged that this growing Maoist revolt
has become the “single biggest internal security challenge ever faced by our country.”
• The Maoists have established a significant presence in at least 13 of India’s 28 states.
They are recruiting guerillas and terrorizing entire regions to establish a safe haven
called “Revolutionary Compact Zone” from Nepal in the north all the way down to
Andhra Pradesh in the south. The goal is to build a base for launching a full-scale revolt
against India Inc. – the custodian of a corrupt democracy. [ Left- BBC News; Right – The
Economist]
Is Armed Revolt against “Shining” India Inevitable?
A democratic India that can send a rocket to the moon is certainly shining. It makes me proud.
However, the corrupt culture of bribery in our government, courts, police, education,
employment and business makes it incapable of providing equality of opportunity. There are
many good and honest Hindus, but it cannot be denied that, in general, upper caste Hindus are
the primary perpetrators and beneficiaries of corruption. Hindu asceticism renounces wealth
but unfortunately, it espouses a moral philosophy that cannot fight corruption. Therefore,
intellectuals such as the late Oxford don Nirad Chaudhuri have charged that Hinduism’s venal
gods that require appeasement are an important reason why upper caste Hindus corrupted
clean institutions built up by British Christians.
In 2004, the BJP led “Hindutva” Government became so proud of India’s sudden economic
boom that it tried to fight the General Election on the slogan “India Shining.” But many peasant
farmers were committing suicide, because unable to repay their debts they were harassed by
banks and money lenders. The peasants shocked the pundits by defeating the BJP-led
government and entrusting their future to Sonia Gandhi – an Italian born, Roman Catholic
widow of the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty. Mrs. Gandhi did focus some of her attention on the plight
of the rural poor, but failed because she had to rely on a corrupt bureaucracy and a creaky
political machinery to implement her welfare programs. So far she has not exhibited the
strength needed to build a new party that has moral nerves to match her vision.
What do you think the children of a harassed farmer do after he commits suicide? My guess is
that in many cases the son accepts the offer of a gun which comes with a promise to change the
rotten religio-social “system” responsible for his father’s death. The daughter becomes her
brother’s trusted informer.
Journalists have gone into the jungles to meet with the Maoists that killed the Hindu Swami, but
the police cannot get to them. India Inc has become so bankrupt (morally and intellectually) that
soon it will have to send in the army to crush it’s downtrodden, but it knows that the army’s use
will be democracy’s ultimate moral defeat. An imported political system that offers no hope to
the poor will lose its right to remain. The army can crush one generation of rebels, but another
will arise unless the basic injustices are addressed.
From the perspective of the hopelessly poor, India’s secular democracy has already failed. . . But
. . . at least some poor think that it is not democracy that needs discarding but Hindu culture
which provides no spiritual basis to make democracy work.
The Conversion Controversy
The initial conflict in Orissa was ethnic, not religious. Swami Laxamananda Saraswati succeeded
in instigating Tribals to kill Scheduled Caste (Untouchable/Dalit) Christians because the
Christians were demanding to be reclassified as Tribals. This would make them eligible for
special quotas in educational institutions, jobs, loans, and political office. The Tribals feared that
if the Government conceded the Scheduled Castes’ demand then their children would have to
compete against better educated Christian children. The Hindu government was insensitive to
poor Christians and the Christians were insensitive to the needs of the Tribals who were poorer
than them. A Christian leadership confused by a secular sense of social justice and Marxistleaning
Dalit Liberation Theology precipitated the political (non-violent) conflict.
In this non-violent conflict over affirmative action programs, the Swami saw an opportunity to
mobilize the Tribals against the Dalit converts to Christ. His agenda was to stop conversions. His
motivation was hatred and his method was force. If he were a saint he would have won poor
Christians by empathizing with their poverty and need. He would have used his position to
reconcile the two groups and fight their common enemy – poverty. He could have championed
poor Christians by asking the Government to consider their plight. But blinded by Hindutva
ideology he complicated the conflict by injecting the issue of conversion in a battle against
poverty. The Western Church supports missionaries to serve poor Hindus but sadly, many rich
Hindus pay their leaders to harass the poor who convert to Islam and Christianity.
Gandhi, Untouchability and Conversions
When he was a child Mahatma Gandhi’s mother taught him that Uka – the boy who cleaned
their lavatories – was “untouchable”. Any accidental contact with him required a cleansing bath.
While studying in England, Gandhi experienced the beauty of a different culture, one built on
the biblical assumption that human beings were created equal. He was liberated by white
families affirming his human dignity.
This “English” Gandhi revolted against inequality when the racial arrogance of white South
Africans violated his dignity. He devised his weapon of Satyagraha – passive, non-violent
resistance – to use his opponents’ biblical view of human equality against their routine violation
of the Bible. The “African” Gandhi did not champion the dignity of the black Africans. To this
day Indians in Africa are considered more racists than the whites.
Gandhi liked the biblical ideas of human equality and the dignity of a sweeper. He forced his
wife to host untouchables in their home. But at the end of the day he could not bring himself to
reject the Hindu faith that people were either born unequal due to their karma in previous lives
or because Brahma created them unequal to begin. If he did reject his parent’s faith privately, he
felt it necessary to compromise with caste perspective in order to carry the Hindu elite with him.
His ambivalence expressed itself vividly in controversy over conversion:
In 1935, Newspapers reported that in village Kavitha in Ahmedabad (in Gandhi’s native state of
Gujarat) the upper caste Hindus had committed horrible atrocities against some
“untouchables”. Columbia University educated Untouchable leader, Dr. Bhimrao Ambedkar,
had been thinking about conversion for a while. In a Depressed Classes conference in Yeoli in
Maharashtra, on October 14, 1935, he made his famous announcement that he was born a Hindu
and had no choice, but he will not die a Hindu because he does have a choice. Ambedkar’s
resolve initiated a national debate on conversion.
John R. Mott, the American founder of the YMCA, asked Mahatma Gandhi if he thought it was
wrong to “preach the Gospel with reference to its acceptance.” The Mahatma responded in his
paper Harijan (19 & 26 December, 1936):
Would you, Dr. Mott, preach the Gospel to a cow? Well, some of the ‘untouchables’ . . .
can no more distinguish between the relative merits of Islam and Hinduism and
Christianity than a cow . . . If you must share [the Gospel] with the Harijans, why don’t
you share it with Thakkar Bapa and Mahadev? Why should you go to the ‘untouchables’
and try to exploit this upheaval?
Dr. Ambedkar was not the only one enraged by Mahatma Gandhi’s view of the Dalits. His own
follower Jagjivan Ram – a gifted, young, ‘untouchable’ Congressman from Bihar – registered his
protest. Gandhi had demonstrated that Hinduism’s caste arrogance was worse than the racial
arrogance of white South Africans: It assumes that most of the “untouchable” Hindus are an
inherently lower species – like animals. Indeed the Hindu Law of Manu classifies Untouchables
as “talking animals”!
This prejudice that marred Mahatma Gandhi’s legacy not only continues to this day, but is
reinforced each time an educated, upper caste, “secular” Hindu argues that missionaries should
not attempt to convert the “Lower Castes.” This condescending attitude drives militant Hindus
such as Swami Laxamananda Saraswati to try and save the lower castes from Christian
missionaries, if necessary by force. Why should anyone follow a Swami who believes that they
are stupid animals, incapable of thinking for themselves and therefore have to be herded into
the Hindu fold with a stick?
In India and Nepal Marx’s dictum that religion is the opiate of the masses is understood to mean
that Hinduism is that opium. That perception is reinforced by an increasing acceptance of
Ambedkar’s analysis that Hinduism is the cause of the backwardness of the Backward Castes,
Dalits and Tribals.
Why is Christ Losing to Mao?
Chances are that you have never heard that at least some of the “persecuted Christians” in
Orissa are Maoists. Some of them killed Hindus and burned their homes in December 2007.
You have not been given this information because unfortunately India’s Christian leadership has
presented a simplistic picture. That is not to suggest that Christian spokespersons lack integrity.
They have misled the world because
(a) Like secular journalists, most Christian leaders have not taken the time to understand
poverty, the poor and the growing appeal of Maoism. Therefore, they cannot make sense
of what is happening. They describe what they understand.
(b) Some of them are motivated purely by their compassion for the sufferings of fellow-
Christians. They do not have the time or the tools to diagnose the deeper disease. (The
Church is doing all it can for relief and that deserves support. However, relief without
imparting biblical spirituality will create new problems. From all reports most of the
Christian victims in Orissa are “carnal” Christians who do not hesitate in using lies and
deceit to get a few rupees even in normal times and these are abnormal times when they
are in desperate need.)
© Some, who know better, talk only about “persecution” either because they are afraid of
acknowledging the growing Maoist-Christian connection or because they are out to raise
money for the victims and their own organizations. (The Western Church is unlikely to
donate money if it knows that Christians have been killing Hindus or that the primary
conflict between Dalit Christians and “Hindu” Tribals is not over religion or conversion
but over benefits of affirmative action.) Relief workers do need to remain neutral in such
crises. But then, like the Red Cross, they must serve both the warring groups. Relief work
loses its nobility if it serves one side and misleads donors.
(d) Regrettably, some Christian spokespersons who understand the issues choose not to
present the full picture because some of them are also driven by a spirituality of hatred
taught by Dalit Liberation Theology. Others may have personal agendas: Some seem to
want to promote themselves as champions of “human rights,” and they choose to
condemn the “fascist” Hindutva BJP even when it is not responsible in order to please
Mrs. Sonia Gandhi to find appointments in national and international forums for
Minority Rights.
The cumulative result of these tendencies is that
• Christian leadership has shown little interest in developing understanding. It prefers
relief dollars and preaches the socialist idea of “Reservations” (affirmative action)
without any discussion of its negative consequences or consideration of better
alternatives.
• Christian leaders refuse to debate and defend conversions even when invited to do so by
national leaders. They see no need to educate the voters that individual liberty has little
meaning if it does not include the right to choose one’s beliefs.
• Christians show no concern for reconciliation: In January 2008, when we discovered
that some Christians in Orissa had burnt down some Hindu homes, I suggested to a wellknown
Christian leader that the relief money that his group was raising should be used
for reconciliation: (i) Local Christians should be encouraged to go to the Hindus,
apologize, and rebuild their homes with Christian money before rebuilding their own
homes. (ii) His organization should consider building a school and a hostel which admits
equal number of Hindu Tribals and Christian “Dalits.” The gentleman got so mad at me
that he went to some of my friends instigating them against me. Some leaders from his
group project themselves as spokesmen for Indian Christians and they have taken a
public stand that they will not meet even with sane Hindu leaders. They slander the BJP
as a “fascist” party, which has not been true at least since 1977.
Unfortunately, the failure of Christian leadership goes much deeper: Christ is losing at least
some of his followers to Mao because the Church no longer preaches “the Good News to the
poor” Their Gospel aims to take souls to heaven but is not bothered whether or not God’s will is
being done in India. Some missionaries do specialize in subjects such as elementary education,
health, micro-financing and linguistics, but no one seems to know anything about the biblical
worldview that liberated Western nations out of poverty, oppression and corruption, giving
them relatively just, clean and sensitive governments.
Perhaps the most tragic fact is that at a time like this when Indians are killing and dying in
search of human equality, there is a growing group of American missionaries teaching the upper
caste followers of Christ not to worship with lower caste converts. This unthinking forum is
importing American racism into the Indian Church. It believes in segregating churches along
caste lines because it thinks that the Great Command to love our neighbors as ourselves ought to
be superseded by the obligation to make disciples of the Brahmin nation (people-group). They
don’t believe that it is necessary for believers to be “one” as Jesus prayed in John 17.
Secular democracy has failed but there is no forum in India that teaches biblical economic and
political thought. The Maoists overtook Nepal because several decades ago the Government of
North Korea donated libraries to every school. No one bothered to see what those books were
teaching. In as much as Marxism is a Christian heresy, it does do some good. Its utopian dream
is a secularized vision of the Kingdom of God. But just as the Chinese Marxists are searching for
a satisfying world and life view, India needs literature that will expound a reforming worldview
and spirituality: then our universities, colleges, seminaries, pulpits, radios and television will
communicate a message that makes sense even to the Maoists.
The fact that militant Hinduism is giving birth to Christian Maoists will thrill the proponents of
Dalit Liberation Theology. But is this something to celebrate? Medieval Europe had plenty of
“Christian” knights who dedicated their weapons and skills to the Church. Most of them became
such nuisance that Popes sent them away on Crusades to kill and die – away from their
homelands. It took Europe centuries to bring physical might under moral right. India inherited
a professional army, police and bureaucracy from the British. These institutions have
degenerated. The Maoists killed the Swami only because the Orissa Government did not bring
him under the rule of law. In choosing not to protect innocent Christians the Government failed
again. That deserves condemnation and a resolve to transform. But is the government’s failure
good enough reason to exchange civil government and rule of law with the rule of guns and
gangs? A civil war could be justified when the Government itself kills the poor who agitate for
affirmative actions or for their right to convert. But under present circumstances, it is foolish to
destroy the magnificent institutions that the Christian political thought, spirituality and wisdom
gave us through the British. The Church should be training its youth to reform and run the
institutions of justice that have been corrupted.
Ambedkar, Mao and Christ have come together in Orissa because people oppressed for
thousands of years have decided to stand up against the Hindu socio-economic system. One
Ambedkarite brother may be choosing Christ, while the other follows Mao. The Maoist brother
gets angry when Hindus persecute his brother who chose Christ. The Christian should love his
Maoist brother, but cannot follow his brother in hating his oppressor. He has to follow Christ
and find supernatural power to repay good for evil. The Church has to equip a Christian to love
both the Hindu oppressor as well as his Maoist brother and help them both to find the true
Savior of the world.
The Maoists are not dumb. They know that in the short run their violence will drive investors
and industrialists away from Eastern India and in the long run they will have no option but to
join the democratic mainstream. Bullets do give political power, but they also take it away,
quickly and abruptly. In the long run they establish either chaos or authoritarianism as the order
of the day. That precludes the possibility of establishing peace – the pre-requisite to prosperity.
The Maoists need to know how they can help build a culture of human equality and dignity,
freedom and justice, honesty and service, education and development, science and technology,
peace and prosperity where guns remain under the authority of moral law. India will seek the
Kingdom of God when it sees that the historical track record points to Christ, not Mao.
© Vishal Mangalwadi October 31, 2008
Five
Comments on Two Controversial Issues:
Reservations and Conversions
Vishal Mangalwadi
Christian leaders have issued simplistic political statements about Reservations for
Dalit Christians, but now that the conflict over Reservations has become bloody, they
need to engage with the issue seriously and mediate the conflict between Dalit
Christians and Tribals.
Obviously, reclassifying the Dalits as Scheduled Tribes is one way to solve the problem.
Even if this solution was to be accepted, the nation will need to find answers to the
Tribals’ fears that Dalit-turned-Tribal Christian kids will take over the meager
benefits Reservations give to the Tribal Children. These are the fears that Swami
Laxamanda exploited to turn a socio-economic struggle into a religious conflict.
The Church should not start out blaming the Government for denying Scheduled
Caste Christians the benefit of Reservations. In my assessment, historically, 50% of
the blame for the present poverty of the Dalits rests upon the Hindus, 40% upon the
Church (including the British Raj) and only 10% upon the Government of India. If
the Church had not kept the Dalits out of its educational institutions for two
centuries they would have been governing free India.
Just 10 years ago I asked the Indian Principal of an English Medium Christian High
School, "How many dalit children do you have in your school?"
He replied, "One – the son of our gardener."
"Why?" I asked him, "Surely there are at least 50 Dalit families in the city who can
pay the tuition? Besides, American sponsors are giving you fees for at least 75
students."
"My predecessor," the Principal explained, "(an evangelical, American missionary)
started the tradition of interviewing the parents in order to admit the children.
Children's IQ or parents' ability to pay the fee are not sufficient for admissions.
Parents have to display a certain, minimum standard of culture" . . . (i.e. the kind of
Sari's and jewellery the mother wears or if their child is sent to school on a scooter or
a bicycle) Happily this is changing and the new Principal of St. Stephen's College
(Delhi) has to be commended for his courage in Reserving a percentage of seats for
the lower castes - a step of great symbolic value.
The pioneer of Protestant missions in India, William Carey, began by making
children of all castes sit together. Later, the upper caste parents told the missionaries
that their children would not sit with the lower caste kids. The Church and the British
East India Company stopped admitting lower caste kids. The Church could have said
that our educational institutions will practice human equality, if the Brahmins do not
want their children to learn this truth, then their children don't need to attend
Christian schools.
This is no place to look at the problem in depth, the point here is that the Church has
played a major role in creating the present bloody problem and, therefore, the
Church needs to engage with the issues seriously – not with cheap political
statements demanding reservations or condemning violence.
Dalits want both conversions and Reservations. The Hindus want to concede neither.
The Church has to engage the nation with both the issues but keep them separate
since the right to conversion is non-negotiable while Reservation is negotiable.
It is not enough that the Constitution permits conversions. The Right to choose one's
beliefs needs to be enshrined in the court of public opinion; therefore it needs to be
debated. Christian leaders should prepare for debates and stop saying "No debate on
conversion."
Obviously, many liberal Christians do not like conversions any more than Hindus
do. But the Ambedkarites (Dalits, Tribals and a growing number of OBCs) see
conversion as the only way to demolish a Brahminical social-system that accounts for
India's backwardness. Since, fifty thousand Dalit converts are staying in jungles and
refugee camps for their right to choose their beliefs, even the liberals may respect the
strong feelings of these poor people, oppressed by the Hindu social system for
thousands of years. Why should they be forced to accept a religion that makes some
people lower than others?
Many "Liberal" and fearful Christians that denounce conversions are not peacemakers.
They are peace-lovers. They want peace for themselves and their
institutions. They do not care for peace and justice for the oppressed. A Church
controlled by such "Liberals" cannot possibly attract Maoists who are desperate for
change. The caring Church must identify with them, not with the insensitive "anticonversion"
sentiment of the secular elite and the Sangh Parivar.

[Husky]

Older news (for latest see G Sub's post 293 above),
but has comment by Hindu from Orissa, which mentions Dhanu Pradhani (another Hindu murdered by the ever-terrorist christos):

http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?P...895&SKIN=B
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Swami Lakshmanananda Murder -Orissa Police to arrest Christian-Congress Leader</b>
28/12/2008 05:39:47  HK

Bhubaneswar : Reports from Orissa confirms that, Orissa Police is all set to arrest Radhakant Naik – The Christian Rajyasabha MP of Congress in connection with the murder of Swami Lakshmanananda Saraswati.


Radhakant Naik is behind Christian charity World Vision which promotes conversion in tribal belts. The Selfless services rendered by Hindu organisations under Swami Lakshmanananda Saraswati were the hindrance to the conversion activities under Radhakant Naik.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Mohan 29/12/2008 03:07:23 
Guriji killing</b>
Respected all the viewers of HK. I would like to remind you that, the day swamiji was killed , I told all the viewers this is the henious works of Chrstian missionaries. One thing I would like to further clarify that, this man Mr.Radhakant Nayak is a active member of World Vision (A chrstian missionary organistation working in the tribal region). This man is a converted Chrstian and getting huge funds for the only work for conversion. You know it is very difficult to establish the evidence, if you take the cirscustantial evidence, he is the man behind the killing. Only for the name sake these chrstian missionaries are telling it is works of Maos. <b>Now again I would like to remind all most all Maos in orissa are converted Chrstian. After killing of Swamiji, they further killed Mr.Dhanu pradhan , one of the active member of RSS.</b> But sorry to say that, these medias are not time to expose the fact, because as you know it will calrify the real fact/ issue. Since I belongs to Orissa, it is the Chrstain misioanries are 100 % responsible for the killing of Swamiji. Since they have sonia Gandhi, John Daya, Cheenath and other Reverent father i.e these father are nothing having ellecit relation with nuns openly will come to save this man. It is further informed that, it is Radhakant Nayak is the killer for Swamiji and congress is responsible for this. I would like to request orissa police kindly collect concreate evidence for this.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Husky]

http://hamsa.org/akbar.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Indian Media's War on Hinduism</b>
by Swami Jyotirmayananda

   1. The Indian media: Its adverse role
   2. The Indian media: Why it is partial
   3. Christian sponsorship of Indian media: An example
   4. Countering the propaganda unleashed by the Indian media<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Read the rest at link.

Am Posting just section 3:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->3. Christian sponsorship of Indian media: An example

Here is a case study wherein the <b>‘Sify.com’, a major online Indian media outlet is working with ‘World Vision’, an evangelical body openly indulging in unabashed proselytisation with huge funds at their disposal for this purpose [Rs 256 crores this year according to Home Ministry records].</b> Details about Sify.com’s partnership with the ‘World Vision’, patently a missionary agency, are online at: http:// sify.com/news/antichildlabourday/ On this page, they are blatantly fundraising for them without informing the Indian public that they are missionaries. ‘World Vision’ also regularly advertises on Sify. It should be noted that the ‘World Vision’ has been implicated in induced conversions in Orissa and in Sri Lanka during the Tsunami. Look at a quote from the World Vision's website regarding their “noble” mission: “Wherever we work, our prayer is that our efforts will be used by God to heal and strengthen people's relationships with Him and with one another. We do this by demonstrating God's unconditional love for all people through our service to the poor — which includes providing for daily needs, working to build peace and promote justice, and partnering with churches and individuals to encourage spiritual transformation.” <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Note how many online "Indian" newspapers are carrying adverts for World Vision. Being deceived into thinking this a 'secular' charity, Hindus reading these newspapers are actually donating to the terrorist org (the same organisation which gruesomely murdered Swami Lakshmanananda and is tormenting others).
And this money from Hindus, which could have gone to help Hindu causes, is now used by World Vision to further propagate its religion of ultraviolence on the Dharmics of Bharatam.

[G.Subramaniam]

Xtian infiltration of the Big Bazaar chain

In Chennai I went to Big Bazaar chain,
local developer Anandram

I was shocked to see world vision collecting funds in a booth inside
big bazaar

[Husky]

<!--QuoteBegin-G.Subramaniam+Jan 1 2009, 12:07 PM-->QUOTE(G.Subramaniam @ Jan 1 2009, 12:07 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Xtian infiltration of the Big Bazaar chain

In Chennai I went to Big Bazaar chain,
local developer Anandram

I was shocked to see world vision collecting funds in a booth inside
big bazaar
[right][snapback]92525[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Landmark used to be owned by a Hindu family. It was sold. Christians own it now. They collect donations for christian terrorisms "charities".

Like you indicated, it is christian infiltration - that is, <i>orchestrated</i>.