BJP Future - 6

[Guest]

Does it mean we as a society lack some thing? Couple of weeks back I was watching parts of the 10th State of the Black Union headed by Tavis Smiley. It was on CSPAN, and I was riveted for couple of hours. The discussion was at a high level than what one finds on the regular cable news.

[Husky]

<!--QuoteBegin-Swamy G+Mar 9 2009, 04:21 PM-->QUOTE(Swamy G @ Mar 9 2009, 04:21 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Does it mean we as a society lack some thing?
[right][snapback]95334[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yes. Hindus lack leadership. The right leadership. People don't seem to have any idea of how important right leadership is. Not political - well, yes political, but in the sense of Shivaji or Julian. Someone who knows what they're doing and is most particularly not confused nor prone to confusing themselves.

In fact, Hindus have everything wrong. All the wrong people are talking. All the wrong people have taken it upon themselves to represent them. The people who should speak are silent and the people who should shut up are the only ones speaking. It's a topsy-turvy situation. Don't know what will set it right. It's like some disaster movie.
Poor Hindus. I'm rooting for them all.

[Bodhi]

From the point of the orginal Hindutva of kShtriya vareity -- Orissa remains unmatched. Not even karNATaka comes close. One region besides kAmarUpa that moslems never managed to penetrate, subjugate or convert is Orissa. While vijayanagara gets some attention on the pages of history for securing dakShiNApatha for over two centuries from jehAdI-s, we are not taught anything at all about the valiant struggle of contemporary ga~NgA-s that continued to secure this bastion of Hindus largely unabated from Islam. Like vijayanagara rose in utter defiance, so also Orissa, parallelly and independently. It is unfortunate that history is largely silent on their tumultuous ocean-like raise for the defence their Hindu country, wave after wave. These Fierce Oriya-s of course paid huge costs for this defiance by their blood, but conclusively frustrated the moslem onslaught for centuries. The final destruction of vijayanagara and that of Orissa at the hands of ghAZI-s are almost parallel.

It took the mlechCha-s to really quell the spirit of these Hindus. They were first mass-murdered through starvation and disease, and then subjected to conversions -- which too, unlike south, bore little result -- Orissa even today remains largely Hindu.

Hindutva should naturally come to the inner AuDra-s. It is just that BJP has a wrong wavelength, and its confused leaders would not appeal here. Hard to imagine how they react to the BJP leader providing "healing-touch" to christians of kandhamal?

[Guest]

Maybe BJP should organize Talent competitions throughout the country, and select the brightest among them for each region. It means, the party would have to put ideology in front of local caste based politics.

Based on several posts here, it looks like BJP might be the largest party, but the ducks are not going to line for it to form the government. But politics is strange, even if BJP manages to form a government it is clear that it needs some overhauling for the longer run.

[Capt M Kumar]

<!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> BHUBANESWAR: Keeping its options open in national politics despite severing ties with the BJP at the state level, the BJD today said that it is
still a part of the NDA.

"We are still part of the NDA. Therefore, it will be premature to say anything now on the role of the BJD in national politics," BJD's secretary general Damodar Rout said, adding things would be clear once the polls were over.

'blowing hot; blowing cold'

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/B...how/4245150.cms

[Guest]

It will all depend on numbers after result, if BJP had higher number, all these cheats will tag with BJP and will demand one ministry and same will happen with other side.
Anti-hindu is a fashion.

[Capt M Kumar]

<!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo--> Mazboot Neta, Nirnayak Sarkar (Strong leader, decisive Government)! This is BJP's answer to Congress' Jai Ho.

Desh Ka Gaurav (pride of the nation), Damdar Sarkar (powerful Government) and aapka adhikar behtar sarkar (a better Government is your right) were some of the other slogans proposed but the party's campaign strategists found the Mazboot cry more appealing.

“Our research show voters gave Advani an advantage over Sonia Gandhi, Rahul Gandhi and Manmohan Singh when

it came to their decisiveness. The slogans rejected did not express the feeling,” a member of the BJP’s campaign management team said.

Mazboot Neta, they felt, matches Advani’s image of being an ‘iron man’ and Nirnayak Sarkar promises about a NDA Government that would be more decisive than that of Manmohan Singh

http://www.dailypioneer.com/161787/Mazboot...new-slogan.html

[Husky]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Mar 9 2009, 05:32 PM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Mar 9 2009, 05:32 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->From the point of the orginal Hindutva of kShtriya vareity -- Orissa remains unmatched.  Not even karNATaka comes close.  One region besides kAmarUpa that moslems never managed to penetrate, subjugate or convert is Orissa.  While vijayanagara gets some attention on the pages of history for securing dakShiNApatha for over two centuries from <b>jehAdI-s</b>, we are not taught anything at all about the valiant struggle of contemporary ga~NgA-s that continued to secure this bastion of Hindus largely unabated from <b>Islam</b>.  Like vijayanagara rose in utter defiance, so also Orissa, parallelly and independently.  It is unfortunate that history is largely silent on their tumultuous ocean-like raise for the defence their Hindu country, wave after wave.  These Fierce Oriya-s of course paid huge costs for this defiance by their blood, but conclusively frustrated the <b>moslem</b> onslaught for  centuries.  The final destruction of vijayanagara and that of Orissa at the hands of ghAZI-s are almost parallel.

It took the <b>mlechCha-s</b> to really quell the spirit of these Hindus.  They were first mass-murdered through starvation and disease, and then subjected to  conversions -- which too, unlike south, bore little result -- Orissa even today remains largely Hindu.

Hindutva should naturally come to the inner AuDra-s.  It is just that BJP has a wrong wavelength, and its confused leaders would not appeal here.  Hard to imagine how they react to the BJP leader providing "healing-touch" to christians of kandhamal?
[right][snapback]95336[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Islamics are as mlechCha as the christians from Europe. Or alternatively, can refer to the colonials by their actual identity of christianism, just like the middle-Eastern, C and W Asian invaders were muslim.

Even today, every British person at my university (as in English/Scotch/Irish/Welsh person who's still a British citizen and has migrated to here) <i>of the older generations</i> - age-group 30 to 60, which is lecturers to professors - are very religious. They all attend church, they all baptise their kids, they are all professing christians. And this was even more the case in Churchill's day and even more so before that. Atheists were the rare exceptions of Britain's past, not the rule.
(The 20+ students with British parents at university are atheist though. And the locals of European origin tend to be atheist as far as I know, with a couple of female exceptions in biology.)

A cursory glance through material on Britsh rule in India (text books, historical literature both prose and poetry, historical fiction novels, period films) show they were quite religious. Consider Austen's transformation from her earlier literature - still christian, of course, but regency was a little less uptight - to more prudishly religious 'Mansfield Park' (foreshadowing a little of the Victorian era), or works like Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte and Tenant of Wildfell Hall by sister Anne - both also religious, Anne more traditionally so (even if Charlotte and Emma show typically christian protestant dissidence against certain christian beliefs, they are christian).

The British ruling India only looked secular compared to the French and Portuguese, and that's because the Brits very much took care to appear so: they were in it for the long haul, and knew that the rule is to never openly tread on the religious toes of a nation, else there'll be a revolt/mutiny to deal with. The Dutch come across more secular than the British only because they were mostly disinterested in sticking around - trade, goods is all they wanted from the New World and the Old. None of them were actually secular.
But in the long-term, the British were more successful when it came to christianising and christoconditioning than all of them. Will get some tangential info from Hamsa.org on how efficiently the Brits eradicated Hindu Dharma under their 'secular' cover:
- giving Hindu temple land to christian churches. Very secular.
- And more of their successful secularism - against Hindu Dharma:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->He continues, "The Tirumalai Nayak Mahal [at Madurai] is another example. Jealous of its magnificence, the British began demolishing it, but public agitation checked it and what we have today is only a part of what was originally there."

The British were generally less destructive than the Portuguese and the French, but they did not hesitate to attack temples that were in the way of construction works or to desecrate them as a means of intimidating the local populace. They fired on the temples of Kalahasti in Andhra Pradesh for this last reason; and Victoria Terminus in Bombay is built on the original site of that city's famous Mumbai Devi Temple. In Madras they obliterated the small Hindu shrines that once stood inside Fort St. George. The fort now contains St. Mary's Church, the first Protestant church built east of Suez.

But it is the French who vied with the Portuguese in their Christian zeal to destroy Pagan places of worship. Henry Love, in Vestiges of Old Madras, records that they used temples as barracks in their military operations against the British. Between 1672 and 1674, at Madras, they fortified the rebuilt Kapalees--wara Temple in Mylapore and the Parthasarathy Temple in Triplicane when they were besieged by Golconda and the Dutch.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even in secular schools in N Europe where the students are sooner to be described by the term 'anti-christian' than merely atheist, the older generations are very christian. The syllabus is very christian. And N Europe's older generation (45+) is generally less christian than Britain's older generations (30+).

Always interesting to see how islamism still doesn't get away with the sort of things christianism has got away with, and why victims continue to treat both differently. Then again, this is what christianism is good at, and the lies continue to be believed: "The nazis were secular. The crusades were only the evil catholics - not christianism, the conquistadors were Europeans and racist and killed instead of christianising the victims, African slavery was abolished by christianism OR: it was due to European racism not christianism." I know many an African-American christian writer, site or vocalist that blames the "whites" for "racism", and a number of native American web pages that talk about the "white Europeans" who genocided them. Christianism is miraculously exempt from everything, from all scrutiny, from all mention.

And Indians talk of the 'British', the 'Portuguese' and the 'French'. And it's most particularly the case that when they mention the British it always looks like the British were no more than secular and at worst nominally christian. Yet practically every single British aristocrat right upto Edwardian times and even beyond (at least until the Charleston period) was christian in lifestyle and <i>beliefs</i>, and the rest of the classes even more so, because they had been kept illiterate, obedient and blind 'simple' for even longer (the French non-aristocratic populace had better chances of education after the revolution, but was worse than England before). Not to mention Britain in the Victorian era and before.
It was long "GOD, KING/QUEEN AND COUNTRY" all the way (and in that order, but royalty and nation somewhat tied because they were equated; English monarch has always been the Head of the Church of England since the pope was deposed from the position) . Note the songs the aristocratic households sung on New Year with their staff and tenants - again, even into the Charleston times (roaring 20s, 30s).
France was less christian thanks to the Revolution, but even France continues to be very catholic now, for all the adverts of it being rational and skeptical compared to other European countries. Every single French exchange student I know is a professing, church-going catholic.
But Britain never had a revolution.

Watch Chariots of Fire (yes, the one with Vangelis' theme of the same tune). You will hear the Jewish protagonist stating factually how the most prestigious British universities (aristocratic of coures) are implaccably Christian, Saxon - Saxon identity was strongly linked to christianism, hence religious-racial anti-semitism. Chariots of Fire is set around pre WWII I'd say, going by the women's hats, clothes and hair.

But I guess christianism will really get away with murder. Because the victims are only too happy to overlook it altogether and continue covering up. (One exception: the Hellenes don't. Then again - they are a class apart and also always knew christianism better than anyone. Moreover, they don't get blinkered by distractions, unlike everyone else.)
I have no other words to describe the sheer criminal perfection of christianism's successful strategy but to say that it's <i>amazing</i>. If I wanted to become an instant billionaire, my money in the gamble would be on christianism winning. What an ugly but profitable bet that would be.

<b>ADDED:</b>
If only the Hellenes were more numerous - like an eighth to a quarter of the number of Hindus today - say 80 millions - Hellenismos would win hands down, against christianism and communism at least (and has a positive rate of inadvertent conversion even among neighbouring muslims). Shame that the odds at present aren't (yet) quite so good.

[Bodhi]

And if it was <b>bhuwaneshwara</b>-mahAdeva from whose blessings the ga~NgA-s arose, for vijayanagara it was the blessings of devI-<b>bhuwaneshwarI</b> of tu~NgabhadrA!

on mlechCha, no I am not going to abandon the established terminology of our immediate ancestors.

[ramana]

Husky and Bodhi, Please be selective where and what you post. This is a political thread to examine the BJP prospects. Instead its being veered/steered away from the thread objectives.

[Guest]

Out of the 32 MLAs belonging to the BJP Navin Patnaik was able to bribe three so they resigned from the Assembly resulting in Patnaik winning the confidence vote. The defection rate is 10% which is terrible. BJP once again proves itself to be corruption prone. Shame!

[shamu]

Does anybody know how many seats did BJP allocate to people recommended by Shri Adityanath of Gorakhpur?

[acharya]

Detailed Story<b>
Poll timing not good for nation's health: Astrologers</b>
New Delhi, IANS:
"This election is not good for the Indian constitution. The country has seen too much criminsalisation of politics and it does not point to good times ahead," astrologer Jagannath Mishra, associated with the Arya Samaj Mandir at Harit Vihar in the capital, said.


The stars and the weather do not foretell well for the 15th Lok Sabha poll in April-May.

While April may turn out to be cruel in terms of the mercury, which touches 40 degrees Celsius and beyond in most states of India, crystal-gazers see a turbulent political atmosphere post-poll - one that could be marked by an anarchy-like situation and violence.

The five-phase parliamentary elections begin April 16.

"This election is not good for the Indian constitution. The country has seen too much criminsalisation of politics and it does not point to good times ahead," astrologer Jagannath Mishra, associated with the Arya Samaj Mandir at Harit Vihar in the capital, said.

Mishra felt that the smaller parties - especially the state-level ones - could improve their fortunes and the country would possibly see another coalition government.

"The period post-election will be marked by terrorism, treachery and violence," he said ominously.

To coumpound the grim prophecies, Mishra, like many of his peers, predicted earthquakes and sea storms - probably mini tsunamis - which could cause damage to life and property in a couple of months after the elections.

However, Mishra saw a marginal improvement in the bleak financial scenario.

Astrologer Ashok Sanoria echoed Mishra. "Around September, when five planets converge in Scorpio, the climate will prove fickle. Storms, those that originate in water, will ravage the US and will also affect India," Sanoria, who has a consultation cell in Vivek Vihar, said.

A new government will be in place in September, Sanoria said.

The astrologer, who took part in the Nakshatra Festival at the Pragati Maidan in Delhi, was recently interviwed by a national television channel for helping trace a kidnapped child with the help of his "Egyptian vaastu pendulum" that responds to queries.

The election, predicted Sanoria, would not benefit any party - neither the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) nor the Congress. "This time, three parties are going to make the govenrment and BJP might be at the forefront," Sanoria contended.

But the coalition government will not last for more than a year and a half. "Then the Congress will make a comeback, but Manmohan Singh will not be prime minister. It will be a surprise choice," Sanoria said.

The soothsayer hinted that the future prime minsiter could be a woman. Explaining the position of the planets, he said as the king of the zodaic formation would then be Venus and its minister (attendant) the moon, the comibation could pitchfork an intelligent woman to power because both the planets are feminine.

"It could be Jayalalitha for her personal horoscope is very strong," he said.

"Neither L.K. Advani nor Mayawati can become prime minister now. Advani, who is now under the influence of Saturn (mahadasha of shani), will probably become prime minister later in life. However, this period will be good for Advani unlike the Vidhan Sabha poll, when the stars in his personal horoscope were not favourable," Sanoria predicted.

Renowned astrologer Bejan Daruwalla, who is in Kolkata at the moment, said he did not have the time to work out the positions of the planets during elections. "I do not want to predict something funny. But I think India will ultimately do well. I had predicted last year that the country would win an Oscar either in 2008 or 2009," the astrologer, who was honoured with an award recently, told IANS from Kolkata.

Delhi-based astrologer B.B.Sharma, whose grandfather Mangat Ram Sharma was one of the three astrologers who decided the time for the country's declaration of Independence in 1947, said the temporary positions of planets in April could benefit the Congress.

"Sun, which is now facing Saturn, will enter Aries and will augur well for those in power. Sun relates to power and royalty. Saturn, which is also another powerful planet, will be free of sun's fierce glare and politicians who are ruled by Saturn will gain," he said.

Jupiter, the noble ruler of the zodiac, is now debilitated in conjunct with node Rahu (guru-chandal yog), which will have a grim bearing on politics and on the fate of the nation as a whole, cautioned Sharma, whose family has been associated with the Birla Temple for nearly six decades.

"It is better if the country concentrates on strengthening its economy and eradicating poverty by building more employment opporunities. Elections will deplete finances and will not be able to address core issues," said Prem Nath Updhayay, an astrologer in south Delhi's Kalkaji area.

"Invoking Jupiter through enterprise and knowledge should be the priority now to shake off the malefic influence of Saturn, Mars and Rahu on the country's polity and economy," he added.

[Capt M Kumar]

<!--emo&:ind--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/india.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='india.gif' /><!--endemo--> Given the damages that the BJP is expected to inflict on the Congress in saffron strongholds, the BJP is likely to emerge as the single largest party, leaving the Congress quite far behind. But, between them, the parties, that is, the BJP and the Congress together will have a parliamentary majority. That will force the regional parties to gravitate towards one of the two alliances, the BJP-led NDA or the Congress-led UPA.

In my assessment, the BJP-led NDA is likely to lead the next Government as regional parties may prefer joining the NDA bandwagon in the post-poll scenario. For many allies, the BJP does not suit them in the pre-poll scenario given their local, electoral considerations. However, in a post- poll scenario, the BJP-led NDA may hold a lot of promise. After all, no one has the stature and credentials of LK Advani, the NDA’s prime ministerial candidate, or his determination to move to 7 Race Course Road.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/162467/Centre-beckons.html

[Capt M Kumar]

Varun Gandhi has already addressed three 'Hindu sammellans'. While the district administration has taken cognizance of his utterances at a meet in Barkhera on March 8, those at earlier meetings in Dalchand on March 6 and at Lalori Khera locality on Feb 22 have almost gone unnoticed.

On March 6, he said at the Dalchand meeting: "Agar kissi galat tatv ke aadmi ne, kisi Hindu pe haath uthaya ya hinduon ke upar yeh samajh key ki yeh kamzor hain, unke peeche koi nahi hai... hinduon ke upar haath uthaya, mein geeta ki kasam khake kehta hoon ki mein uss haath ko kaat daaloonga. (If somebody lifts a hand against Hindus, or thinks they are weak, there is nobody behind them, then I swear on the (Bhagvad) Gita that I will cut off that hand)."

http://news.in.msn.com/national/article.as...umentid=2061203

[ravish]

The running in fighting between Rajnath Singh and Arun Jatley is the major news in the media during the last three days. A few may attribute it to the biased secular media. However, the fact remains that there is serious division within the rank and file of the party. This will have disastrous consequences in many of the constituencies across the country. Let us hope that better sense will prevail and there is a patch up till at least the elections. If this does not take place than the NDA will not be able to face the electorate in a united manner .

The controversy wracked up by the speeches of Varun Gandhi will not be causing any serious damage to the electoral prospects of the BJP as most of the leaders of the party will not stand by Varun Gandhi. This is very much evident by the statements and reactions from the leaders of the BJP who have been interviewed live by the electronic media.

The MSN further reports
Quote
Varun gaffe: BJP wants apology; EC slaps criminal case
New Delhi: Shunning its 'other Gandhi' candidate, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) said Tuesday that Varun Gandhi should apologise for his inflammatory anti-Muslim remarks that go against the party's credo of "harmony and unity".

"We are of the strong belief that Varun Gandhi should apologise. The BJP dissociates itself from his remarks," Shahnawaz Hussain, the party's spokesperson in parliament, told reporters here.

"This (Gandhi's remarks) is not what the party stands for," Hussain asserted.

Echoing his view, BJP vice president Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi said this was not the culture of the BJP.

"BJP believes in prosperity, harmony and unity and it is the only tool to fight terror," Naqvi said.

He did not refer to Varun Gandhi's Congress family background - he is the son of the late Sanjay Gandhi, former prime minister Indira Gandhi's younger son, and Maneka Gandhi - but said: "It is the Congress culture to divide society on the basis of caste and religion."

Clearly distancing himself from the controversy, Naqvi said it was up to the Election Commission to take action against Varun Gandhi if he had violated the model code of conduct.

The 29-year-old was Sunday issued a notice by the district authorities in Uttar Pradesh's Pilibhit, the constituency so carefully nurtured by his mother who gave up the seat to ensure his easy entry into the Lok Sabha.

Varun Gandhi said in Pilibhit Tuesday that the CD containing his speech had been tampered with.

Meanwhile, the Election Commission Tuesday directed Uttar Pradesh's chief electoral officer (CEO) to file a criminal case against Varun for making allegedly communal campaign speeches.

"...Election Commission directs CEO Uttar Pradesh to file a case under the Indian Penal Code and Representation of People's Act against Varun Gandhi for violation of the model code of conduct," said an Election Commission statement here.

Maneka Gandhi, mother of Varun Gandhi, refused to comment Tuesday on the swirling controversy. "I don't want to say anything," Gandhi, who is five time MP from Pilibhit, said.

Source: Indo-Asian News Service
Unquote

So there appears to be no defender for Varnu Feroz Gandhi at the moment.He has planned to hold a Press Conference in New Delhi tomorrow as part of his salvage operation.

[Guest]

It is clear that he talking about terrorists in his speech. So what's the big deal.
A lot of people will like that kind of approach.

[ramana]

Is Jaitley such a hotshot that he can run cross the Party President? As far as I know he has a mixed bag in recent elections. And polticsparty guy rips into him often.

In his own and the party's interests he should give it a rest. If he had a point he has made it why carry on the Achilles or Karna demeanor of sulking?

[Guest]

BJP is democratic party, it is different then Congress where dictator is dictating, because she carries purse, all rats follow her. No one is talking about missing 500000 crore from Indian treasury, Every time during Congress rule, suddenly huge amount just go missing.

[Guest]

<b>Varun says tape doctored, denies charge</b>