I don't even know where this goes... Wasn't there an environment thread?
au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/5281950/global-warming-unleash-ocean-dead-zones-study/
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Global warming could unleash ocean 'dead zones': study</b>
PARIS (AFP) - Global warming may create "dead zones" in the ocean that would be devoid of fish and seafood and endure for up to two millennia, according to a study published on Sunday.
Its authors say deep cuts in the world's carbon emissions are needed to break a trend capable of wrecking the marine ecosystem and depriving future generations of the harvest of the seas.
In a study published online by the journal Nature Geoscience, scientists in Denmark built a computer model to simulate climate change over the next 100,000 years.
At the heart of their model are two well-used scenarios which use atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide (CO2), the main greenhouse gas, as an indicator of temperature rise.
<b>Under the worst scenario</b>, CO2 concentrations would rise to 1,168 parts per million (ppm) by 2100, or about triple today's level.
<b>Under the more optimistic model</b>, CO2 would reach 549 ppm by 2100, or roughly 50 percent more than today.
The temperature rise that either would yield depends on several factors: when the peak in carbon emissions is reached and how quickly it falls, and whether the warming unleashes natural triggers, or tipping points, that enhance or prolong the warming in turn.
Taking such factors into account, the scientists predict a possible rise of around five to seven degrees Celsius (nine to 16 degrees Fahrenheit) over pre-industrial times under the worst scenario. Under the other scenario, there would be warming of roughly between two to four C (3.7-7.2 F).
Either scenario spells bad news for the ocean, said Jens Olaf Pepke Pedersen, a physicist at the Technical University of Denmark.
<b>Under the worst scenario</b>, warmer seas and a slowdown of ocean circulation would lower marine oxygen levels, creating "dead zones" that could not support fish, shellfish and other higher forms of marine life -- and may not revive for 1,500 to 2,000 years.
"They would start slowly by the end of this century, it's not something that would happen tomorrow or in the near future but over the next few generations," Pedersen told AFP.
"But because of the inertia in the ocean, once you have the process going, it's not feasible to reverse it again just like that, so it would continue for hundreds of years.
"Even if after a hundred years, if you stopped all carbon emissions, the ocean would still need hundreds of more years to cool. These low-oxygen areas would continue to expand and they would peak around 2,000 years from now. The ocean would then slowly recover as it cools."
Even under the less gloomy scenario, there would still be significant, long-term expansion of oxygen-starved zones.
Marine "dead zones" already exist today, in shallow areas next to the coast, where runoff from agricultural fertiliser causes an explosion in oxygen-gobbling algae.
<b>Wide oxygen depletion of the ocean, though, poses a far greater threat, touching at the heart of biodiversity, the paper warns.
Around 250 million years ago, a chemical change of the seas led to a massive wipeout of marine species.</b>
Lead scientist Gary Shaffer of the Niels Bohr Institute at the University of Copenhagen said it was unclear, in the grim light of this study, whether future generations could look to the oceans as a major reserve of food.
(Why is it always about 'us' - like "it will impact our food"? Why not try to preserve ocean life for its own sake?)
"Reduced fossil-fuel emissions are needed over the next few generations to limit ongoing ocean oxygen depletion and acidification and their long-term adverse effects," he said.
Since 1900, the mean global atmospheric temperature has risen by 0.8 C (1.44 F) the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) said in 2007. It forecast warming of 1.8-4.0 C (3.2-7.2 F) by 2100 over 1980-99 levels, but said "positive feedback" triggers that could amplify warming remain unclear.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No clue where this goes.
http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?P...506&SKIN=S
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>SEWA Bharati / UBSS starts relief operation in Rajkanika</b>
03/04/2009 22:02:52Â HK
BHUBANESWAR: <b>Utkal Biparna Sahayata Samiti late on Tuesday night launched relief and rescue operations in natural calamity hit Rajkanika block of Orissaâs costal districts of Kendrapara.</b> UBSS volunteers, besides more than 50 Sewa Bharati workers are distributing food materials( 15,000 Biscuit packets), clothes, medicines, water and other commodities in Dasabhagaria, Manaidiha and Mangalpur villages under Bharigada Panchayat, Ganja, Sevasahi, Bagabuda, Dalikenda, Barada, Mahurigaon, Govindapur, Koranda, Kalikapur under Rajkanika area, said Samiti spokesman Simanchal Khatua in a release. Besides, cooked foods are being prepared for about 1000 affected people. UBSS has also deputed several ambulances to shift the injured to Kendrapara and Cuttack medicals for further treatment while UBSS has also deputed two medical teams at Ganja near Rajkanika and Maniediha village under Bharigada Panchayat. The Samiti volunteers also in rescue operation and clearing roads, where trees are being failing due to high speed wind that claimed more than 30 lives and left injured more than 500 while spreading panic in the entire costal region close to Bay of Bengal. More than 15 villages in 7 Panchayats have been badly hit due to the high voltage storm. Power and tele communication has also been cut off. Roads connecting Bharigada to Rajkanika, Rajkanika to Olavar and Kantapada Bazar to Sevasahi and Bagabuda, are being cut off due to falling of trees and electrical polls. Earlier, few hours after the incident, UBSS and Sewa Bharati teams reached the spot and started their relief operation before the district administration reached to the affected people. Biswmbar Pani Vibhaga Karyabaha, Biranchi N Mohapatra, Abhaya Pati, Ajay Das and others are monitoring the relief and rescue work.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
04-04-2009, 10:01 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2009, 10:02 PM by HareKrishna.)
Bulgarians were Christian at 865. Until then, khagan Bulgarian was hostile to the Christian religion. Missionary implicitly or hierarchy from the neighboring states. Persecution Christians are known (with the priority of the Christians against the Greeks), or other, Byzantine propaganda against Bulgaria Pagani, killing of Christians. "
Immediately after Christianization, tárul Boris was forced to stop an angry rebel boyars of the decision to move to the new faith. 52 boyars together with their families were executed. Later, even his son Vladimir started a revolt against the new religions. Introduction of Christianity in Bulgaria was brutal. Boris ordered, idols and altars pra-Bulgarians and the Slavs were destroied. Then the 870 is created archiepiscopy Bulgarian. This hierarchy introduced religious religious organization and to the north of the Danube, because as you know, those territories belonged to Bulgarian. After this date there is an organization of a canon and religious hierarchy.
I think this is an Irish paper.
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/boat-...ul-1699585.html
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Boat tragedy kills 21 Hindu faithful</b>
Monday April 06 2009
An overloaded boat carrying Hindu devotees capsized in the northern Indian state of Uttar Pradesh on Saturday, leaving at least 21 people dead and 20 missing.
At least 60 people were packed onto the boat, which was crossing the Yamuna River in Aurriya -- 185 miles from the state capital Lucknow-- when it capsized. Police said roughly 20 people swam to shore.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Billionaire Clusters</b>
by Duncan Greenberg
Wednesday, April 1, 2009
provided by
<b>link</b>
Want to become a billionaire? Up your chances by dropping out of college, working at Goldman Sachs or joining Skull & Bones.
Are billionaires born or made? What are the common attributes among the uber-wealthy? Are there any true secrets of the self-made?
We get these questions a lot, and decided it was time to go beyond the broad answers of smarts, ambition and luck by sorting through our database of wealthy individuals in search of bona fide trends. We analyzed everything from the billionaires' parents' professions to where they went to school, their track records in the early stages of their careers and other experiences that may have put them on the path to extreme wealth.
Our admittedly unscientific study of the 657 self-made billionaires we counted in February for our list of the World's Billionaires yielded some interesting results.
First, a significant percentage of billionaires had parents with a high aptitude for math. The ability to crunch numbers is crucial to becoming a billionaire, and mathematical prowess is hereditary. Some of the most common professions among the parents of American billionaires (for whom we could find the information) were engineer, accountant and small-business owner.
Consistent with the rest of the population, more American billionaires were born in the fall than in any other season. However, relatively few billionaires were born in December, traditionally the month with the eighth highest birth rate. This anomaly holds true among billionaires in the U.S. and abroad.
More than 20% of the 292 of the self-made American billionaires on the most recent list of the World's Billionaires have either never started or never completed college. This is especially true of those destined for careers as technology entrepreneurs: Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Michael Dell, Larry Ellison, and Theodore Waitt.
Billionaires who derive their fortunes from finance make up one of the most highly educated sub-groups: More than 55% of them have graduate degrees. Nearly 90% of those with M.B.A.s obtained their master's degree from one of three Ivy League schools: Harvard, Columbia or U. Penn's Wharton School of Business.
Goldman Sachs has attracted a large share of hungry minds that went on to garner 10-figure fortunes. At least 11 current and recent billionaire financiers worked at Goldman early in their careers, including Edward Lampert, Daniel Och, Tom Steyer and Richard Perry.
Several billionaires suffered a bitter professional setback early in their careers that heightened their fear of failure. Pharmaceutical tycoon R.J. Kirk's first venture was a flop--an experience he regrets but appreciates. "Failure early on is a necessary condition for success, though not a sufficient one," he told Forbes in 2007.
According to a statement read by Phil Falcone during a congressional hearing in November, his botched buyout of a company in Newark in the early 1990s taught him "several valuable lessons that have had a profound impact upon my success as a hedge fund manager."
Several current and former billionaires rounded out their Yale careers as members of Skull and Bones, the secret society portrayed with enigmatic relish by Hollywood in movies like The Skulls and W. Among those who were inducted: investor Edward Lampert, Blackstone co-founder Steven Schwarzman, and FedEx founder Frederick Smith.
<b>Parents Had Math-Related Careers</b>
The ability to crunch numbers is normally a key to becoming a billionaire. Often, mathematical prowess is hereditary. Some of the most common professions among the parents of American billionaires for whom we could find that information were engineer, accountant and small-business owner.
<b>September Birthdays</b>
Of the 380 self-made American tycoons who have appeared on the Forbes list of the World's Billionaires in the past three years, 42 were born in September--more than in any other month. Maybe that's because September is the month the Forbes list of the 400 richest Americans is published.
<b>Tech Titans Who Dropped Out of College</b>
Forget everything your guidance counselor told you: You don't have to go to college to be successful. More than 20% of the self-made American moguls on the most recent list of the World's Billionaires never finished college. Many of them made their fortunes in tech. Among them: Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Michael Dell, Larry Ellison, (Oracle) and Theodore Waitt (Gateway).
<b>Skull and Bones</b>
Several current and former billionaires rounded out their Yale careers as members of Skull and Bones, the secret society portrayed with enigmatic relish by Hollywood in movies like The Skulls and W. Among those who were inducted: investor Edward Lampert, Blackstone co-founder Steven Schwarzman and FedEx founder Frederick Smith.
<b>Goldman Sachs </b>
A stint at investment bank Goldman Sachs is a prime credential for becoming a finance billionaire. Of the 68 self-made American billionaires that derive their fortunes from finance, at least eight cut their teeth in Goldman's investment banking, trading, or asset management divisions. The company's crown jewel: its "risk arbitrage" unit, which launched the careers of billionaires Edward Lampert and Daniel Och, as well as former billionaires Tom Steyer and Richard Perry.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i>Let me see where I stand -</i>
Parents Had Math-Related Careers : One parent (Mother)
September Birthdays : Yes
Tech Titans Who Dropped Out of College : yes after completing Post Grad,
Skull and Bones : No
Goldman Sachs : Short duration
I think I can be millionaire. <!--emo&  --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
No clue where this goes.
http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2009/05/int...-on-indian.html
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>interesting conference on 'indian management': do submit proposals</b>
may 29th, 2009
astonishing! an actual conference on indian management, and that too held at an institution named after francis xavier! (what, india actually had management before the europeans taught us everything we know?)
and that is bold enough to proclaim that india was an economic superpower until the kind attention of the white christists?
you must absolutely send a submission! i will do so too.
rajeev
===================
Call for Submissions for the Inaugural Conference of the Indian Academy
of Management (IAOM), to be held at XLRI - Jamshedpur, India, December
28-30, 2009
Indian Management: Past, Present and the Future
The thoughts of Indian management could arouse a collection of scripts
among Indian and international practitioners and researchers that could
range from Rama Rajya, Yudhisthara's rule and Krishna's wisdom; Canakya,
Chandragupta, and Ashoka; Babar, Akbar, and Aurangjeb, Gandhi, Nehru,
and Patel; to Tata, Birla, and Ambani. A country that can boast of
excellence in practically every domain of human endeavor is likely to
have contributed to management thoughts in a significant way. The
inaugural conference of the Indian Academy of Management (IAOM) is
committed to the study and propagation of ideas that capture Indian
management from diverse perspectives (certainly not restricted to
indigenous research initiatives/thought pursued by Indian scholars based
in India but warmly welcome it from overseas as well). We are happy to
announce that Professor Angelo DeNisi (President Academy of Management,
USA) has agreed to be a keynote speaker at the Inaugural Conference of
the IAOM to be held during December 28-30, 2009 at XLRI Jamshedpur. We
invite your involvement and greatly appreciate your support to this
exciting and promising initiative.
We invite papers and symposia that will help showcase the discovery of
aspects of Indian management that have already been researched and are
well established as well as those that need to be addressed and
developed. We hope the conference will further create an opportunity for
a dialogue among Indian and international scholars that will help the
global village address human needs of people from the top to the bottom
of the human economic pyramid. India related management practices are
likely to contribute to this venture in a significant way, and we would
like this conference to set the stage for a meaningful long-term
dialogue among scholars.
NEED FOR THIS CONFERENCE
India was an economic superpower until 1760, and accordingly led the
world with management ideas and practices. But much of that was lost
with its colonization and the struggle to shed the colonial ideas in the
last 250 years. India is now again emerging as an economic power, and
business schools are focusing on the BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India, and
China) nations instead of the Triadian market of US, Europe, and Japan.
Thus, it is important to further focus our research energy on Indian
management and reveal about what is unique about Indian management -
good or bad, effective or inefficient, beautiful or ugly.
We hope that this conference will be useful for researchers and
practitioners who are interested in India in general and management
practices related to India both within and outside India in particular.
... rest deleted for brevity, send mail if you want it
Posted by nizhal yoddha at 5/30/2009 06:54:00 AM 1 comments <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
06-15-2009, 12:51 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2009, 12:55 PM by Husky.)
About:
<!--QuoteBegin-Husky+May 31 2009, 03:10 PM-->QUOTE(Husky @ May 31 2009, 03:10 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2009/05/int...-on-indian.html
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>interesting conference on 'indian management': do submit proposals</b>
may 29th, 2009
astonishing! an actual conference on indian management, and that too<b> held at an institution named after francis xavier!</b> (what, india actually had management before the europeans taught us everything we know?)
and that is bold enough to proclaim that india was an economic superpower until the kind attention of the white christists?
you must absolutely send a submission! i will do so too.
rajeev
===================
Call for Submissions for the Inaugural Conference of the Indian Academy
of Management (IAOM), to be held at <b>XLRI</b> - Jamshedpur, India, December
28-30, 2009
Indian Management: Past, Present and the Future
[...]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->[right][snapback]98067[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->2 comments:
Non Carborundum said...
  Ram Rajya at XLRI? Really?
  5/30/2009 12:37 PM<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Apparently it is surprising.
How trustworthy?
Was thinking of:
http://hamsa.org/interview.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->10. There is a shadowy group called Opus Dei that is supposed to be doing significant theoretical work to help spread Christianity around the world. I believe the well-known Indian-Spanish Jesuit priest Raimundo Panikker is associated with them. What do you know about them?
Opus Dei is everywhere but nobody really knows anything about them except their Vatican banker and the Pope who is their special advocate and patron. They are an authoritarian secret society with members in such places as the CIA and MI5. I am inclined to doubt that they would employ a theologian like Fr. Raimundo Panikker because he is a married priest and they are advocates of strict church discipline. <b>Their fronts in India (and other developing countries) are scholars associations, history conferences, Hindu-Christian dialogue seminars, certain NGOs and aid agencies</b> (all missionary outfits use NGOs and aid agencies as cover for their proselytizing activities), some Western embassies and the English-language media.
Opus Dei is especially interested in creating favorable public opinion for the Catholic Church and has infiltrated every major English-language daily. Read the op-ed page and letters column in any big city newspaper and you will probably find the handwork of Opus Dei. They want to manipulate and control public opinion. They would never employ a venomous journalist like A.J. Philip but soft columnists like Renuka Narayanan are definitely on their list of honorary lady Jesuits.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
http:// shahrulpeshawar. wordpress .com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-buried-as-muslim/
Al Fatihah to Mikaeel.
I have no idea whether he will be buried as a Muslim or not. If it is, He will be doing a great daâwah by reminding people of the world that no one will escape from death and there is Hereafter worth to ponder.
All the best my brother.
Shahrul
Peshawar.
06-28-2009, 10:16 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2009, 07:52 PM by Husky.)
^ related to that:
I think it's probably on IF that I read most of this, but IIRC Michael Jackson got into it through some family or friend: because of his 'conversion', during his court cases they brought in some Army Of Islam heavies (an islamic African-Americans-only sect that doesn't have a very peaceful reputation) to intimidate everyone. It bought him some freedom of movement.
I don't know that he was ever religiously-convinced of islam. But that's just a guess based on limited context, of course - am not telepathic.
Post from HC yahoo group:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Namasthe,
This Forum is supposed to help our fellow Hindus. In this Forum, we
passionately discuss how to help other Hindus and protect Hinduism.
Well Here is a REAL and PRESSING Opportunity right in our backyard:
Sewa international is involved in helping Bhuthanese Hindu refugees who
have just come to the US. There is an URGENT need to help these people!
They are on food stamps and in subsidized housing which will expire
soon. In New Hampshire alone, 5 HINDU families have been CONVERTED TO
CHRISTIANITY due to lack of help from the Hindu community. They are all
under pressure to convert to Christianity because the MISSIONARIES ARE
HELPING THEM NOW. To get their Food Stamps the Bhuthanese need to go to
an office in a CHURCH. A group of individuals from Boston area is
working in association with the SEWA International Co-ordinator Sri
Raghavan Narayan to put together a few items for a care package. The
Items are:
1.) A murthy or vigraha of a Hindu God to do daily puja as requested by
refugees
2.) A nanadaa deepa or lamp
3.) A Grocery gift Card (most important) They can only do this through
donations. So far they have collected $2260 but they need to collect a
total of $5000 for 75 families. Please Please HELP THIS
EXCELLENT HINDU CAUSE by contacting the SEWA coordinator Raghav Narayan
at
raghav.k.narayan@...
<http://us.mc552.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=raghav.k.narayan@gmail.com\
> and the volunteer lead P.S.Prakruthi at vyuha5@...
<http://us.mc552.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vyuha5@gmail.com>
Please visit
http://www.sewausa.org/ <http://www.sewausa.org/>
http://www.sewausa.org/bhutanese-refugee...nt-project
<http://www.sewausa.org/bhutanese-refugee-empowerment-project> Article
in Boston Globe:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/...their_hin\
du_brethren/
<http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2009/03/29/embracing_their_hi\
ndu_brethren/>
An eyewitness account: Please read below: Bhutanese Refugees at Concord,
NH:
These folks are in need of help. They have been overlooked by community
service groups so far, perhaps due to their far-north location. There
are about 40 families in Concord, approximately 20 of them live in one
apartment complex (the one we visited), and the rest are a few block
away. They get their support from Govt. through Lutheran Social Services
Agency (the agency name may not be exactly that, but something to do
with Lutheran...). The Govt. help lasts for 8 months only. Some of
them have already exceeded that limit and thus are somehow surviving
with other refugees' support. The families with dependents/minors
(under 18) have been able to get temporary 3-month extensions but no
such extensions are available to those (including women who are over 18.
Many of them speak little or no English. Being able to speak/understand
Nepali was a big help to me. Immediate Needs: Jobs (e.g., cleaning,
housekeeping, priest, ...), bus pass or petty cash to pay for bus fare
(to go to library, language classes, etc.), personal computers, English
tutoring, computer skills, self-help skills (e.g., how to take advantage
of unemployment agencies for job search and resume prep, etc.),
how/where to conduct final rites / Hindu funerals, etc.
Long-Term Needs: Winter clothing, easy access to places of worship /
temples, .... Chinmaya can help by sending a few people on a periodic
(weekly/biweekly/?) basis. Can bring some simple snack/beverages along,
be with them for a couple hours and help them with tutoring, guidance,
etc. Other ideas include old/used computer donation drive, winter
clothing drive, fund raise to purchase bus passes, etc. Example#1: One
gentleman with bachelors degree ("Shastry" degree) in Sanskrit, who used
to be a priest back home (and would love to work as a priest or a
priest's helper here in US), is diabetic, neither he nor his wife has a
job, and have a toddler child to support. They lost their health and
other benefits recently (past 8 months), but received temporary
extension because of the child.
Example#2: A young lady whose parents are yet to arrive (she has not
been given specific dates) who lost her benefits last month, has no job,
has not received an extension because she is 18+ and has no dependents,
been living in an apartment without electricity/utilities (got
disconnected), surviving with other refugees help. The Lutheran agency
has asked her to wait until they get another refugee family to arrive so
she can live with them, but no dates have been given.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
07-05-2009, 07:47 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2009, 08:39 PM by Bharatvarsh.)
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->With "against nature", did Plato mean it doesn't occur in nature or that, because it produces no offspring, it can be regarded as being unproductive, hence (?) "against nature".
Well, if the former, then it may be because Plato didn't get to see National Geographic's entry (was it?) on homosexuality in the animal world - mammals, birds, insects. (Not that NatGeo is the most scientific or reliable of all natural-world/doco-type outlets, but it's infinitely more reliable than say the modern christist unscience that's been clocking overtime to shout down these findings.)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He meant that it produces no offspring & hence unnatural. It is another matter modern day authors twist what he said to mean that he was an enthusiastic advocate of homosexuality!!
There has been a court case about this, check the following link:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In fact the writings of Plato contain numerous condemnations of homosexual intercourse. Perhaps the bluntest and most withering comes in Laws 636c. Here Plato, speaking through the character of the Athenian stranger, rejects homosexual behavior as "unnatural" (para physin), describes it as an "enormity" or "crime" (tolmema), and explains that it derives from being enslaved to pleasure. Finnis had cited this passage, among others, to show that Plato, among other great pre-Christian thinkers, rejected homosexual acts on moral grounds. Thus, Nussbaum faced the daunting task of explaining away what appears to be Plato's clear condemnation of acts she had claimed no pre-Christian philosopher had ever objected to.
http://www.firstthings.com/print/article/2...t=500&width=700<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And yes that "Martha Nussbaum" mentioned there is the same as the anti Hindu one we know.
In Symposium he has Alcibiades sleep next to Socrates & make sexual advances which Socrates resists leading Alcibiades to say that he (Socrates) acted in a way that would "befit a father or older brother" & yearned for a "higher beauty" that was spiritual.
Aristotle also condemned homosexuality.
I am not saying we take their word as gospel but because the pre Christian Hellenic culture does not have many living descendants today it is easy for people to twist things whichever way they want to & get away with it.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->IIRC, it was Sparta's men who at one point were predominantly homosexual (?), but all had stay-at-home wives for babies as well (to produce future generations of Spartans). If I didn't confuse history entirely, then one can't really envy the Spartan females of that period.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How could it be possible that any society has homosexual predominance?
Even today with tolerance of homosexuality in the West the vast majority of males are heterosexual.
I don't think it is accurate to describe them as homosexual because what they had was a system pedagogy where the younger recruits in the agoge were attached to an older male who was to be their teacher & mentor, presumably sex was involved in this relationship but even that I am not sure about as there was an Athenian writer named Xenophon who assures that the relationship was only spiritual & not sexual, he is referred to in this lecture at 36 minutes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP1POpsqin4
But the lecturer then assures us that this wasn't true, on what basis I don't know.
It may also be the case that homosexuality was more prevalent in Spartan society as the males spent a very good part of their life in the agoge in the military with only other males around, kinda like how people take to homosexuality in prisons today.
The Spartan females had more freedom compared to females in other Greek states, they took part in athletic contests etc. The Spartans were a totally militarized society, they believed that the women had to be sturdy & strong to produce healthy children, they practiced a precussor to modern eugenics whereby they left unhealthy infants to die of exposure because they thought that these infants would never make it through the harsh military training in the Spartan agoge.
Guys, parents will be visiting US shortly, and wondered if any of you know any "health insurance" outfits that I can use to cover them during their stay?
Thanks
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Sep 30 2009, 06:43 PM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Sep 30 2009, 06:43 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Guys, parents will be visiting US shortly, and wondered if any of you know any "health insurance" outfits that I can use to cover them during their stay?
Thanks
[right][snapback]101648[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ask them to get from India, cheaper and covers everything. In US, make sure not to get Health Insurance which are basically Discount Card e.g Cinergy Health - Health Insurance.( basically, they get discount on procedure but one has to pay rest of amount)
From India, make sure this is not discount insurance (
Check this - http://www.nriol.com/insurance/tata-aig.html
http://www.healthinsuranceindia.org/covera...g_insurance.asp
<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Sep 30 2009, 09:39 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Sep 30 2009, 09:39 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Sep 30 2009, 06:43 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(k.ram @ Sep 30 2009, 06:43 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Guys, parents will be visiting US shortly, and wondered if any of you know any "health insurance" outfits that I can use to cover them during their stay?
Thanks
[right][snapback]101648[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ask them to get from India, cheaper and covers everything. In US, make sure not to get Health Insurance which are basically Discount Card e.g Cinergy Health - Health Insurance.( basically, they get discount on procedure but one has to pay rest of amount)
From India, make sure this is not discount insurance (
Check this - http://www.nriol.com/insurance/tata-aig.html
http://www.healthinsuranceindia.org/covera...g_insurance.asp
[right][snapback]101655[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks Mudy!
10-01-2009, 12:10 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-01-2009, 12:15 AM by shamu.)
<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Sep 30 2009, 09:39 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Sep 30 2009, 09:39 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Ask them to get from India, cheaper and covers everything. In US, make sure not to get Health Insurance which are basically Discount Card e.g Cinergy Health - Health Insurance.( basically, they get discount on procedure but one has to pay rest of amount)
From India, make sure this is not discount insurance (
Check this - http://www.nriol.com/insurance/tata-aig.html
http://www.healthinsuranceindia.org/covera...g_insurance.asp
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Mudy, have you used these insurances where they had to make payment?
I've heard many cases from my friends that insurances taken from India refused to make the hospital bill payment, and the people in US were harrassed by collection agencies.
If parents are taken to hospital, the US resident should <b>NOT</b> sign the documents. Ask the patient to sign the papers to commit payment of fee. In case the insurance dispute happens, you can send parents to India without worrying about collection agencies. They can not come after you if you have not signed the legal documents.
<!--QuoteBegin-shamu+Oct 1 2009, 12:10 AM-->QUOTE(shamu @ Oct 1 2009, 12:10 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Sep 30 2009, 09:39 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mudy @ Sep 30 2009, 09:39 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Ask them to get from India, cheaper and covers everything. In US, make sure not to get Health Insurance which are basically Discount Card e.g Cinergy Health - Health Insurance.( basically, they get discount on procedure but one has to pay rest of amount)
From India, make sure this is not discount insurance (
Check this - http://www.nriol.com/insurance/tata-aig.html
http://www.healthinsuranceindia.org/covera...g_insurance.asp
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mudy, have you used these insurances where they had to make payment?
I've heard many cases from my friends that insurances taken from India refused to make the hospital bill payment, and the people in US were harrassed by collection agencies.
If parents are taken to hospital, the US resident should <b>NOT</b> sign the documents. Ask the patient to sign the papers to commit payment of fee. In case the insurance dispute happens, you can send parents to India without worrying about collection agencies. They can not come after you if you have not signed the legal documents.
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To visit US, Health Insurance coverage is must. It is sponsor responsibility.
There is a difference between Health Insurance (Atena, United, Blue Cross) and Health Insurance/Discount. 90% so-called travel health insurance from India are just a discount insurance , which covers nothing , not even catastrophic accident or give discount on treatment. Same problem is with so-called short term health insurance from US companies. Majority of them are scams.
Under law , Emergency Room can't refuse treatment. In case, no coverage they write-off, or one can negotiate cost. If you pay out of pocket within month, majority of ER give 60%-80% discount based on income.
When someone sponsor visitors, everything goes into record. Collection agencies do everything to recover money, it also means, making sponsor responsible for payment. Majority of cases they garnish IRS return, lottery win etc and information is also sent to Embassy .
My suggestion, in place of escaping from responsibility , negotiate with Hospital/Doctor. You will be surprised, they will go out of way to help you. Yes, sponsor may have to provide his pay stub, tax return and other financial document. They can even run credit check.
There are charity hospitals/clinics, which provide free treatment. One can give donation also. There are subsidize county hospitals everywhere.
Yes, employer based insurance are Cadillac Insurance, but check other cheap/free options.
No, I'm not talking about not taking insurance while visiting US, rather it is about taking insurance from India, for a US visit. Many times people from India are tempted to take insurance from India as that is cheap or their friend is an agent. The Indian insurance companies have partnership with some shady US insurance providers. Their first goal is to avoid paying medical bill. If some disease is diagnosed in US during the visit, it is 100% guranteed that they will refuse payment citing that that was a pre-existing case.
I generally take visitor medical insurance from US for my parents, even if that is pretty expensive. I've never had to make claim, but hope that they will be more responsive than shady providers.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> rather it is about taking insurance from India, for a US visit. Many times people from India are tempted to take insurance from India as that is cheap or their friend is an agent. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, I am talking about same , they are called as insurance but they are actually Discount plan, which gives discount on nothing. They are sold as Insurance.
You may be thinking you have Health Insurance but in reality it is just paper and you are shedding big chunk.
This scam is popular in US and also in India. Believe it, it is legal, unless and until you read fine print and check business licence number and BBB.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I generally take visitor medical insurance from US for my parents, even if that is pretty expensive<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you every checked and used? Tell me name of the company and I can give you details.
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