Christian Subversion And Missionary Activities - 6

[agnivayu]

Welcome. I was in Constanta, Romania a few years ago.




<!--QuoteBegin-HareKrishna+Aug 7 2009, 06:18 AM-->QUOTE(HareKrishna @ Aug 7 2009, 06:18 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-acharya+Aug 6 2009, 09:19 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(acharya @ Aug 6 2009, 09:19 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->We know that you are from Romania
[right][snapback]100161[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So now you know that im not racist.
But also greeks oppose macedonians to use the word macedonian ,because of historical reasons.
The word roma-romani mean husband not human ;meanining that gypsy childrens,womens and unmaried men are not rom .Now wonder for choosing this word as for in this nation of husbands the women stay-walk 3 meters behind her rom(husband).
[right][snapback]100181[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[HareKrishna]

<!--QuoteBegin-agnivayu+Aug 14 2009, 08:40 AM-->QUOTE(agnivayu @ Aug 14 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Welcome.  I was in Constanta, Romania a few years ago.




<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We meet again sailor-captain . <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ive heard you was chased by the stray dogs-the national animal. <!--emo&:eager--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lmaosmiley.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lmaosmiley.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[agnivayu]

Yes I remember the stray dogs, but since Romania joined the EU I am sure it has industrialized a lot more in the last 5 years.



<!--QuoteBegin-HareKrishna+Aug 14 2009, 01:58 PM-->QUOTE(HareKrishna @ Aug 14 2009, 01:58 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-agnivayu+Aug 14 2009, 08:40 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(agnivayu @ Aug 14 2009, 08:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Welcome.  I was in Constanta, Romania a few years ago.




<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We meet again sailor-captain . <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ive heard you was chased by the stray dogs-the national animal. <!--emo&:eager--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lmaosmiley.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lmaosmiley.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[right][snapback]100391[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[HareKrishna]

Unlikely,considering the communist Ponzi scheme that guverment hold in this moment.They opose energeticaly the condamnation of communism this year.They still have the red star in their hearths.Red lices die hard.But thats for another topic.

[Guest]

<b>Reader’s Digest’ Files for Bankruptcy</b>
<!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

They tapped educated people in India for conversion. I still remember, once you subscribe RD, next Christ puzzles and quentionarie series will start coming to your mail box. At the end, they will send cross and Jesus picture. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

<b>Outsourced prayer lines confuse callers</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->DES MOINES —<b> Last month, Lori Danes, 43, called the prayer line of a major television ministry and requested prayer for her mother's persistent ulcers. But her prayer representative, who called himself "Darren," prayed in a strong Indian accent that "all the gods would bless her mightily."
    "I was stunned," Danes says. "It was like I'd called a demon prayer line."</b> <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>    The manager of India Prayer Solutions, located in Mumbai, India, apologized for the incident and fired the employee who, he said, had not been properly trained. But dozens of similar incidents have rattled U.S. callers since major ministries began outsourcing their prayer lines to India. The ministries insist they are overwhelmed by the growing number of calls for prayer.</b>
    "There aren't enough Americans willing to sit in the prayer tower and take calls anymore," says a prayer coordinator at a major ministry which jobbed out its prayer lines last year.
    But the interactions have left many callers baffled.
    Rich Douglas of Orem, Utah, called a prayer line for the first time this month, requesting prayer for his wife's cancer. His prayer partner, "Stephanie," took him through a series of prayers that felt "pretty clinical," says Douglas. "I definitely didn't sense the Spirit. It sounded like she was reading from a script."
    "Stephanie," whose real name is Reha Jain, is a Hindu woman who works at a call center in Mumbai and has prayed with "many satisfied prayer customers," she says. "It's like my old job at a Microsoft call center. The caller is happy if you deliver quality customer service."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[acharya]

<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Aug 17 2009, 10:22 AM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Aug 17 2009, 10:22 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Reader’s Digest’ Files for Bankruptcy</b>
<!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo-->  <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

They tapped educated people in India for conversion. I still remember, once you subscribe RD, next Christ puzzles and quentionarie series will start coming to your mail box. At the end, they will send cross and Jesus picture. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[right][snapback]100450[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One high school student doing project work said that they were told not to get reference from Reader Digest, TIme and Newsweek magazine for their project work.

[shamu]

<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Aug 18 2009, 08:05 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Aug 18 2009, 08:05 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->  "Stephanie," whose real name is Reha Jain, <b>is a Hindu woman who works at a call center in Mumbai</b> and has prayed with "many satisfied prayer customers," she says. "It's like my old job at a Microsoft call center. The caller is happy if you deliver quality customer service."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[acharya]

http://www.ijfm.org/PDFs_IJFM/24_2_PDFs/...tersen.pdf

[Husky]

<!--QuoteBegin-agnivayu+Aug 14 2009, 07:02 AM-->QUOTE(agnivayu @ Aug 14 2009, 07:02 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->No you are.  I just mentioned one aspect of it.  I am well aware of  Brahman and unity with Brahman.  Just because I didn't cover everything doesn't mean that I said Hinduism is just that.[right][snapback]100383[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Here's your original that I then commented on:
<!--QuoteBegin-agnivayu+Aug 6 2009, 07:16 AM-->QUOTE(agnivayu @ Aug 6 2009, 07:16 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Note how even a Non-Hindu acknowledges how Kirtan stabilizes the Mind.  Hinduism's and Vedic technology's <b>primarily goal</b> was this.[right][snapback]100147[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->My point was that it is not in fact the primary goal, but merely the side-effect. But if you now choose to change the stress you laid on it to "aspect" instead, then I have no more contention.


What's with the confrontational attitude? I just mentioned one aspect of it, doesn't mean I am saying Hinduism is all psychology like an atheist.

You're misreading. It was not confrontational, mere criticism. And this too was more generally directed than merely the statement in your post (which was only an example): it was to criticise a general flaw, a common tendency of Hindus today to make very essentially Hindu things (sound) more secular than they actually are, without realising it perhaps. Hence they end up using generic terms like "spiritual", "universal", "God" which others then take as an invitation to appropriate. Or Hindus today state that Yoga is merely beneficial exercise or some general spiritual practice, when it's not - it is a *Hindu* practice for union with Hindu Divinity.

Hindus' problems with christian appropriation of Yoga and Keertanas and Bharatanatyam etcetera are in some measure due to them not stating clearly to the public that these are fundamentally Hindu things concerning Hindu Gods.


That Urbanized part is increasingly growing, ... The core loyalists will always stay with Hinduism. Those on the outer rings may drift. And yes there are many cowards. Under Islamic rule, many "hip" ones studied persian poetry and converted to Islam because that was associated with Money and power at the time. If someone did that today, they would be laughed at. So like it or not, politically speaking (not spiritually, because if we believe something is the truth, it will triumph no matter what) building impressive power, structures and having hard power backing up Hinduism does have a great psychological effect on how Hindus (and others) will view the religion.
While my position was that there is no stronger hold of Hindus on their Sanatana Dharma than their possessing an intimate, in-depth knowledge of SD. The more they know of it, the more they see themselves as a part of it, simply because it is true and hence resonates with humanity, beauty.

Under Islamic rule, many "hip" ones studied persian poetry and converted to Islam because that was associated with Money and power at the time.
[...]
If the Mughal Empire had lasted another 500 years, what % would Muslims be in India? (Now they are 40% in the Indian Subcontinent). Our large size saved us from the Islamists. In Pakistan/ Bangaldesh once Muslims reached a critical mass they have nearly wiped out Hinduism.
As you would be well aware, most of the conversions out of Hindu Dharma and into islam were due to violence (forcible conversion including harems), involving much larger numbers of Hindus than those that may have opted for the 'fashionable' religion of islam.

And this tragedy can be repeated even today.

We need more Hard power to back us up.
No one would contest that.


The word "cool" got you riled up quite easily.
Nah, not really.
Maybe you need to "Cool" off.
Ugh. Not Kindergarten again. Thanks for the invite, but Pass.

I never said someone is Hindu because it's cool
Not you. It was in reference to the Indian girl Angela of the article in post 58 who wrote: 'In my case, though, this new genre of "Hindu hip" represents the opportunity to rediscover some of the traditions I avoided as a child because they didn't seem so cool at the time.'



I am trying to explain the situation in large urban areas of the U.S. (and the West) with regards to religion.
Those on the outer rings may be sticking with it because they were either born in it, have nostalgia for it, or due to association with others not because they have a deep understanding.
A lot of people don't like to think about concepts of death, or Brahman, or the nature of the Universe.
The problem you describe is christoconditioning which dumbs people down. In Bharatam - certainly TN and a neighbouring state - up to the last few generations, even illiterate or very poor or remote people knew their Hindu Dharma excellently well. They may have been poor when it came to prosperity and state education, but they were not poor in this respect.
That is the sort of strengthening of the Hindu society that Hindus ought to aim for, IMO. Any less can easily become a liability. Standards have to be high, so our efforts can be adjusted accordingly - or so I always held.

Rajan Zed has successfully brought a Euro-Dalit issue (Roma) into the forefront.
Great. But my comment was about this statement in the article of post 58: "Hindu scholar Rajan Zed has called for kirtan to be included as a Grammy awards category."
It's quite silly and hence not very helpful. And there are other things that aren't quite so comical, but rather more troublesome instead.

[acharya]

Guys cut it out.
Not in this thread and not on the same side

[acharya]

http://www.ijfm.org/PDFs_IJFM/24_2_PDFs/...tersen.pdf

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
Your are 87 and you have been a christian for long year.
If time can roll back and you are again in 1933 what would you do.


Yisu Das Tiwari: “Christ is my ‘ishta,’
he has never left me, I will never leave
him, but I would not have joined the
Christian community. I would have
lived with my people and my community
and been a witness to them.2


He would not have joined the
Christian community? How could he
say that? How could anyone refuse to
have fellowship with other believers in
Christ? But Dr. Tiwari was not merely
referring to koinonia between disciples.
The Indian “Christian community” is
an altogether different type of social
system. It is a legal entity in India that
operates under its own civil law code,
one derived from the British legal
system of the 19th century.

However,
these concerns will not be specifically
addressed until the second major section
of this paper, which will analyze
Staffner’s specific contribution to
missiology in the Hindu context.
Still considering Dr. Tiwari’s amazing
reflection about wishing he would
have remained within the Hindu
community, from where would such
a seemingly strange, even bizarre
conviction come? It appears that it had
something to do with his passion for
being a witness within his own Hindu
community; anything beyond that
would only be speculation, although
Dr. Tiwari’s regret at the loss of his
Hindu birth community identity is
certainly common for many high caste
Indians who have followed Christ.

The
tension between full commitment to
biblical faith and loyalty to one’s family
and community is certainly a theme
that can be traced throughout mission
history; indeed it forms the backdrop
for the above-mentioned discussions
regarding “insider movements.” This
very issue first came to prominence
concerning the case of the Roman
centurion named Cornelius in Acts
10-11 and 15.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[acharya]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
On the other hand, Staffner also
asserted that “Christianity is a religion
that can become incarnate in any
culture.”10 Whatever the social system,
Christians have always been able to
live out their discipleship to Christ.
There is not one set of specific social
obligations or code of civil law that the
Christian faith makes obligatory. For
example, choices regarding occupation,
education, diet, dress, etc. are in
general much more open for followers
of Christ than they are for Hindus.
Neither do believers of necessity have
to adhere to one precise form for the
succession of a family’s inheritance.
There might be many acceptable ways
of doing this. <b>In contrast, however,
what Hindu civilization makes
optional (religious creed and practice),
Christianity makes very obligatory. In
order to be a faithful follower of Christ,
one must believe and worship within
fairly narrow theological parameters.</b>

<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Husky]

<!--QuoteBegin-Husky+Aug 20 2009, 08:22 PM-->QUOTE(Husky @ Aug 20 2009, 08:22 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>This is CHRISTIANISM.</b> (This too happened in Rome.)
Compare the old and new prices for Temple rites in the table at the link:

http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?P...073&SKIN=K
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Inhumane Discrimination against Ayyappa Devotees</b>
17/08/2009 19:06:49  HK<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->[right][snapback]100518[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[acharya]

http://quicktake.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/...lers-holocaust/

<b>Vatican uses short codes to blame Hinduism for Hitler’s Holocaust</b>
August 13, 2009 · 4 Comments

3 Votes

Quantcast


Are you forgetting these halcyon days?

The Vatican forgets these halcyon days?

the Vatican’s 1998 apology, “We Remember.” That long-awaited document expressed regret at Christian mistreatment of Jews over the centuries but pinned the fault on some of the church’s sinful “members” while holding blameless “the church as such.”

The Vatican’s champions say it had no choice: “the church as such” is ecclesiastical shorthand for the church as bride of Christ, which partakes of divinity and must thus be without blemish. “We Remember” further contended that the Holocaust was the product not of Christianity but of a “neo-pagan” regime that had renounced the faith, but Carroll portrays Hitler as the heir to such church-sanctioned haters as St. John Chrysostom and Torquemada. (via The Church as Sinner – TIME).

Deflect ... blame ... cover up ...

Deflect ... blame ... cover up ...

Hitler … Aryan .. Pagan …

Some few years ago, the Vatican came out with a much awaited ‘apology’ for its involvement in the Holocaust. Since Hitler, though technically a Catholic, was a staunch believer in his Aryan lineage.

This the Vatican uses as an escape hatch to pin the blame on ‘neo-pagan’ beliefs. Combine Hitler’s Aryan supremacy theory, India as the citadel of ‘pagans’ and non-believers, makes Vatican’s language a short hand for Hinduism and India.

Just how did the Church think, it could palm off Hitler’s genocide onto Hinduism – and India which is the citadel of ‘paganism’. Are they forgetting the Abbott of Citeaux?
Another red-wash

“Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius” (Kill them all, God will know his own) instructed the Abbot of Citeaux to followers at the start of the Albigensian Crusade.

Did the Church look at its own history? The Ustashe killings, the Albigensian Crusades, at the Hussite Wars, at its blood soaked history, at the numerous humans who were burnt at the stake, torn apart – all in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

[Husky]

^ Hitler declared himself a Japhetite: the ancestry he claimed for himself and his christonazi buddies only occurs in the biblical myth aka christianism.


http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?P...069&SKIN=C
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Why No News Value when Evangelists attack a Hindu Family ?</b>
16/08/2009 10:46:19  HK

Vythiri: Police arrested Pastor Sunny and his Missionary Thugs in connection with the attack on a Hindu family here. The Evangelical attack was directed at the home of Smt. Karthyani Amma in Laksham colony near Vythiri Police Station.

<b>Karthyani Amma was targeted by the Evangelical vultures as she and her family resisted the continues luring by Pastor Sunny and his team for conversion. The Missionary gang trespassed into her home and destroyed Holy books of Mahabharatha and Ramayana .</b>

This attack happened in the very holy Ramayana month itself. Sensing public trouble and protests from Hindu organizations Vythiri Police arrested Pastor Sunny and one of his disciple for destroying the communal harmony in the area.

As usual this news is of less important to our Media as the victim is a poor Hindu Family and the aggressor is a Christian pastor. If instead , the victim was Christian Pastor by now ‘Vythiri’ must have hit the National headlines.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[acharya]

<b>Statistics
This article is missing citations or needs footnotes. Please help add inline citations to guard against copyright violations and factual inaccuracies. (January 2009)
</b>
(Statistical Sources: Rad Zdero (2004), The Global House Church Movement; Rad Zdero (2007), Nexus: The World House Church Movement Reader; Dawn Friday Fax; Wolfgang Simson (2007), The Starfish Manifesto; Wolfgang Simson, EaSi Newsletter, July 2007; Wikipedia)

Home CHurches - HC
<b>
* Bangladesh: 500,000 new believers in HC's
* Cambodia: 1,000 new HC's in 10 years (1990 to 2000) [1]
* Canada: as many as 2,000 HC's in Canada in the last few years
* China: 80-100 million believers in HC's
* Cuba: 6,000-10,000 HC's since 1992
* Egypt: 4,000 HC's
* Ethiopia: growth from 5,000 to 50,000 believers in HC's during the 1980s
* India: approx. 100,000 HC's started in 5 years (from 2001 - 2006)
* Latin America: 1 million HC-type groups known as 'Basic Ecclesial Communities'
* Sri Lanka: Kithu Sevena church movement started 131 new HC's in 7 months (in 2004)
* Vietnam: one church planting team start 550 new HC's in 2 years (1997 to 1999) [2]
* U.S.A.: 1,600 HC's on internet alone (as of 2003) with possibly as many as 30,000 HC's (according to the American pollster George Barna)</b>

[agnivayu]

Rajan Zed has successfully brought a Euro-Dalit issue (Roma) into the forefront.
Great. But my comment was about this statement in the article of post 58: "Hindu scholar Rajan Zed has called for kirtan to be included as a Grammy awards category."
It's quite silly and hence not very helpful. And there are other things that aren't quite so comical, but rather more troublesome instead.
[right][snapback]100492[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
<b>
That's really funny, he was probably being humorous.</b>

[HareKrishna]

Zagreb - Croatia's powerful Catholic Church is launching a war of words against President Stjepan Mesic since he announced plans for an initiative to remove the crucifix from army barracks and police stations, the Vecernji List daily said Thursday.

Mesic made his remarks about the crucifix in a radio interview on Monday.

'It reminds me of Stalin and his moves. The cross is not only a religious symbol but a symbol of Western culture,' a leading theologist, Adalbert Rebic told the mass-circulation daily.

The conflict over the crucifix, however, is just the latest in the ongoing dispute between Mesic and the church. In June, a column in the church newspaper Glas Koncila (Voice of the Council) referred to Mesic as a 'traitor.'

Mesic demanded an apology from the publication and Cardinal Josip Bozanic. But instead of offering one, Glas Koncila said in its latest edition, August 15, that the head of the Croatian state should be a 'healthy and balanced person.'

[agnivayu]

Technically he is wrong. Since when did middle eastern Christianity become a symbol of Western culture. Western nationalists themselves trace it's origin to Greek/Roman origins which were not Christian in their philosophy.




<!--QuoteBegin-HareKrishna+Aug 23 2009, 10:06 AM-->QUOTE(HareKrishna @ Aug 23 2009, 10:06 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->



'It reminds me of Stalin and his moves. The cross is not only a religious symbol but a symbol of Western culture,' a leading theologist, Adalbert Rebic told the mass-circulation daily.

[right][snapback]100606[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->