Gay Sex decriminalized in India

[RomaIndian]

Gay sex decriminalised in India

Gay people celebrating the ruling in Delhi, India





A court in the Indian capital, Delhi, has ruled that homosexual intercourse between consenting adults is not a criminal act.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8129836.stm



What do you think about it? What is hinduism stance on homosexuality? What is Hindu Right Winger stance on Homosexuality? I read that VHP made a rally against the decision. I think homosexuality destroys family values and decriminalizing homosexual act is the first step towards more "gay rights" (like gay marriage, adoption for gay parents etc.)

[Bharatvarsh2]

Good decision.



In general Hindu society from what I know did not approve of it or place it on par with heterosexual relationships but they didn't kill or persecute them either. The current laws criminalizing it were from under Brit rule.



On the question of marriage I support privatization of all marriage, the people concerned can write up their own marriage contracts instead of letting the anti male family courts railroad men. So things like child support etc in case of divorce can be decided by a contract before the marriage takes place.



So if two gays want to have a private ceremony and call it "marriage" who cares, the society at large won't recognize it as marriage.



Gay's in general are obsessed with their sexuality & try to make it the focal point of their entire identity.



As I mentioned once it was in Canada I believe that a gay couple actually sued and won agains a private wedding photo business who said that they dont take photos of gay weddings. They are not happy to have their so called "wedding" but want to impose it on private businesses.



And if you have been to a so called gay neighborhood you see what I can only term as degenerate behavior (i.e male gays not lesbians) where you can guess that they are doing the hanky panky in public washrooms or parks. Male gays are very promiscous and hence the astronomically higher HIV rates among them compared to heterosexuals.



Their politics also tend to be very leftist/socialist, even in India they are big Congress supporters despite the fact that the Islamist allies of Congress would love to stone them to death. They are also just as intolerant as any xtian fundie if anyone questions the establishment version of homosexuality being innate or states facts about their high HIV rates etc.



Here is an example:

And rightly so. After all, the university is committed to academic freedom. Its faculty has the "freedom and an obligation … (to) discuss and pursue the faculty member's subject with candor and integrity, even when the subject requires consideration of topics which may be politically, socially or scientifically controversial. … (a) faculty member…shall not be subjected to censorship or discipline by the University ... on grounds that the faculty member has expressed opinions or views which are controversial, unpopular or contrary to the attitudes of the University…or the community."



None of this applies to professors who dissent from socialist, statist, or culturally left-wing view, however, as I would find out.



In March of 2004, during a 75-minute lecture in my Money and Banking class on time preference, interest, and capital, I presented numerous examples designed to illustrate the concept of time preference (or in the terminology of the sociologist Edward Banfield of "present- and future-orientation"). As one brief example, I referred to homosexuals as a group which, because they typically do not have children, tend to have a higher degree of time preference and are more present-oriented. I also noted – as have many other scholars – that J.M Keynes, whose economic theories were the subject of some upcoming lectures, had been a homosexual and that this might be useful to know when considering his short-run economic policy recommendation and his famous dictum "in the long run we are all dead."



During my lecture no question was raised. (You can hear the same lecture, given some time later, on the Mises Media server.) However, two days later an informal complaint was filed by a student with the university's affirmative action "commissar." The student claimed that he as a homosexual had been made to "feel bad" by my lecture. Based on this "evidence" the commissar, who, as I would find out only weeks later, was a former clergyman turned "certified" gay activist, called me at home to inform me that he would shut down my class if I continued making such remarks.



I agreed to meet the commissar in my office thinking that this would bring matters to a quick end. The student would be informed about the nature of a university and academic freedom, including his right to ask and challenge his professor. Instead, the commissar lectured me on what and how I was to teach my classes. I explained to him the difference between a professor and a bureaucrat and that he was overstepping his bounds, but to no avail. However, because the student had falsely claimed that my remarks had been about "all" homosexuals, I agreed to explain the difference between "all" and "average" statements during my next class.



In my next lecture I explained that when I say that Italians eat more Spaghetti than Germans for instance this does not mean that every Italian eats more Spaghetti than every German. It means that on the average Italians eat more Spaghetti than Germans.



Upon this the student filed a "formal" complaint. I had not taken his feelings seriously. He felt "hurt again;" and as he had learned from the commissar, feeling bad twice constituted a "hostile learning environment" (an offense that is not defined in the university by-laws). From then on the commissar made the student's case his own. Every pretence of acting as a neutral mediator was abandoned, and he became a prosecutor.



http://www.lewrockwell.com/hoppe/hoppe15.html

The concept of time preference mentioned above is explained here briefly:

Under nanny statism, America has become a society dominated by a high-time-preference populace. What is meant by high time preference is that a person prefers present satisfaction over future satisfaction. For example, let’s say that two people are interested in purchasing a $5,000 high-definition TV. A person with a high rate of time preference would prefer "present satisfaction" and purchase the TV using a credit card and pay off the debt over time. A person with a low rate of time preference would save the money over time and purchase the TV once enough money had been saved. Hence, a person who has a high rate of time preference is present oriented while a person with a low rate of time preference is future oriented and typically has a better personal financial condition.



http://www.lewrockwell.com/englund/englund19.html

[RomaIndian]

[quote name='Bharatvarsh2' date='03 April 2010 - 03:56 PM' timestamp='1270306138' post='105616']

Good decision.



In general Hindu society from what I know did not approve of it or place it on par with heterosexual relationships but they didn't kill or persecute them either. The current laws criminalizing it were from under Brit rule.



On the question of marriage I support privatization of all marriage, the people concerned can write up their own marriage contracts instead of letting the anti male family courts railroad men. So things like child support etc in case of divorce can be decided by a contract before the marriage takes place.



So if two gays want to have a private ceremony and call it "marriage" who cares, the society at large won't recognize it as marriage.



Gay's in general are obsessed with their sexuality & try to make it the focal point of their entire identity.



As I mentioned once it was in Canada I believe that a gay couple actually sued and won agains a private wedding photo business who said that they dont take photos of gay weddings. They are not happy to have their so called "wedding" but want to impose it on private businesses.



And if you have been to a so called gay neighborhood you see what I can only term as degenerate behavior (i.e male gays not lesbians) where you can guess that they are doing the hanky panky in public washrooms or parks. Male gays are very promiscous and hence the astronomically higher HIV rates among them compared to heterosexuals.



Their politics also tend to be very leftist/socialist, even in India they are big Congress supporters despite the fact that the Islamist allies of Congress would love to stone them to death. They are also just as intolerant as any xtian fundie if anyone questions the establishment version of homosexuality being innate or states facts about their high HIV rates etc.



Here is an example:



The concept of time preference mentioned above is explained here briefly:

[/quote]



You seem to be not very friendly towards homosexuality (you call them promiscous and degenerate behavaiour) but nevertheless you think a good decision by the court. If gays can privately marry should they be married in hindu temples?

[Guest]

[quote name='RomaIndian' date='06 April 2010 - 09:57 AM' timestamp='1270527572' post='105729']

You seem to be not very friendly towards homosexuality (you call them promiscous and degenerate behavaiour) but nevertheless you think a good decision by the court. If gays can privately marry should they be married in hindu temples?

[/quote]

Hindus normally get married in private setting. Only fire is required. There is no restriction, you must have heard people marrying tree or idol etc.

[RomaIndian]

[quote name='Mudy' date='06 April 2010 - 06:20 AM' timestamp='1270530752' post='105731']

Hindus normally get married in private setting. Only fire is required. There is no restriction, you must have heard people marrying tree or idol etc.

[/quote]



I heard such things, i also heard that people married dogs. I also heard that there are descriptions on hindu temples of people having sex with horses but in manusmirti sex with animals or homosexuality gets punished even only slightly with a "painful wow" and a ritual bath for twice born

[Bharatvarsh2]

I heard such things, i also heard that people married dogs. I also heard that there are descriptions on hindu temples of people having sex with horses but in manusmirti sex with animals or homosexuality gets punished even only slightly with a "painful wow" and a ritual bath for twice born

Some of these are missionary canards like the sex with horse thing though there probably are couple of depictions of it, this is common to many "heathen" cultures including Hellenic lore. For example Minotaur was the result of a coupling between Pasiphae the wife of Minos & the Cretan bull.



The marriage with tree is done due to a belief that there is some "dosha" for her if she marries her future husband (i.e there is a danger of his dying) so before marrying the man there is like a temporary ceremony with a tree.



The dog thing was one weirdo in Tamilnadu just like that weirdo Christian in South Korea who married his pillow.



I personally don't approve of smoking, drugs, & prostitution either but I think they should all be legal, just because something should be legal doesn't make it moral & just because something is legal (eg: abortion) doesn't make it moral.

[Bharatvarsh2]

You seem to be not very friendly towards homosexuality (you call them promiscous and degenerate behavaiour) but nevertheless you think a good decision by the court. If gays can privately marry should they be married in hindu temples?

They can marry wherever they want as long as everyone involved is doing it voluntarily.



If the temple priest refuses to do a ceremony for them then too bad they need to find something else not go crying to the gov't to force the priest to marry them, there is no right to marry whereever you please.

[Guest]

[quote name='Bharatvarsh2' date='06 April 2010 - 08:08 PM' timestamp='1270564220' post='105738']

They can marry wherever they want as long as everyone involved is doing it voluntarily.



If the temple priest refuses to do a ceremony for them then too bad they need to find something else not go crying to the gov't to force the priest to marry them, there is no right to marry whereever you please.

[/quote]



Absolutely, Why they need government to regulate life ?

Do whatever, just don't force me.



In Hinduism, you don't even need priest to perform wedding, you can stand or sit in front of fire and can get married.



There is a major difference between Hinduism and other religion. Nothing is imposed, they don't force anything against nature.



Europe is pushing its problems to rest of world.

[Guest]

[quote name='RomaIndian' date='06 April 2010 - 01:18 PM' timestamp='1270539638' post='105735']

I heard such things, i also heard that people married dogs. I also heard that there are descriptions on hindu temples of people having sex with horses but in manusmirti sex with animals or homosexuality gets punished even only slightly with a "painful wow" and a ritual bath for twice born

[/quote]

They are not temple. I think your church is feeding you wrong information.

Have you read Manusmirti? First read and under stand meaning of Smriti.

Difference between religious text (Gita, Upnisad, Bhramshutra) and Smriti.



Just to educate you, Temple came in 2 or 3 AD. Hinduism is as old as 8000 BC.

[RomaIndian]

[quote name='Mudy' date='06 April 2010 - 03:52 PM' timestamp='1270565093' post='105740']

They are not temple. I think your church is feeding you wrong information.

Have you read Manusmirti? First read and under stand meaning of Smriti.

Difference between religious text (Gita, Upnisad, Bhramshutra) and Smriti.



Just to educate you, Temple came in 2 or 3 AD. Hinduism is as old as 8000 BC.

[/quote]



No it was not my church who gave me that information. It was actually a hindu who said that hinduism doesnt condemn bestiality, homosexuality, incest or anything related to sexuality.



Here is the depiction i was talking about (Khajuraho, Madhya Pradesh, India, Indian Sub-Continent, Asia)





and yes i read that people married dogs, there were even pictures on it on the net. Dont think i hate hinduism, i wouldnt be here if i do, im not a provocateur or christian fundamentalist, its just hard for me to understand some stuff in hinduism, because i come from a very different culture. I read parts of manusmirti on the net. I know its not a religious text its a ancient/medieval law book. I support Vishwa Hindu Parishad and RSS, they spoke out against decriminalizing gay sex and VHP even made a rally against it.

[RomaIndian]

[quote name='Bharatvarsh2' date='06 April 2010 - 03:33 PM' timestamp='1270563954' post='105737']





I personally don't approve of smoking, drugs, & prostitution either but I think they should all be legal, just because something should be legal doesn't make it moral & just because something is legal (eg: abortion) doesn't make it moral.

[/quote]



I dont approve of drugs either and i dont think it should be legal, i approve of prostitution because i think men should go to prostitutes to save the chastity of women and its good for lonely men who cannot find a girl. I think it should be legal but under strict controll to secure that its voluntarily done by the women and that they are healthy. I smoke myself so i approve of it. I dont want to be bothered by homosexual rights activists or gay rallys, i think when they are in public even children see them and get curious about their lifestyle. I think homosexuals should surpress their desire for the same gender, they should marry and have kids, they can wank off to gay thoughts or pictures of good looking men.

[Capt M Kumar]

[quote name='RomaIndian' date='06 April 2010 - 09:34 PM' timestamp='1270569361' post='105744']

[/quote]Dear me,

Just look at the pictures critically, the bestiality being shown there is IMPOSSIBLE. It is just a piece of art. Diagambar ascetics of Jains and currently 'Naga sadhus' at Kumbh Mela are naked which does not have any sexual connotations but these are some sects who appear naked and have perhaps overcome 'sexual zeal'.

[Guest]

RomaIndian,

it is not a temple for prayer and nothing to do with religion but this was built by a perverted architect who wanted to marry King's daughter, when King refused marriage proposal he came up with this art. This is just a form of art by a pervert.

But linking this with Gay. Indians/Hindus never hated this art and protected , so why they hate Gays or whatever.

Infact, you have hatred towards others. Indians don't think that every white is Hitler or Mussolini or Hitler was symbol of Christianity. Why Christian Hitler end up killing so many Jews? How Christianity forced him to do such a sin?



Hinduism is very complex religion, to understand or follow its way of life needs very higher mind. Not only oldest but most open religion.

Try to read Gita and Upanishads, it will open up your mind and will free you from close mindness. We don't see fault in others , we have no concept of SIN.

[RomaIndian]

[quote name='Mudy' date='07 April 2010 - 05:25 AM' timestamp='1270613857' post='105763']

i think many things are good about hinduism but there also many stuff thats weird and i think its not good to dont have a concept of sin or a moral code. Christians made many mistakes in the past and i also dont approve of the church treatment of romas in the past.[/quote]

It is weird when it is seen from a Judeo Christian world view. That worldview is still in infancy.

Human beings have a history of more than 10000 years.

[HareKrishna]

[quote name='RomaIndian' date='07 April 2010 - 01:15 PM' timestamp='1270625833' post='105767']

Sorry but i just think gay is unnatural and pervert. Im not a christian fundamentalist but i think its good to have a concept of sin, i think many things are good about hinduism but there also many stuff thats weird and i think its not good to dont have a concept of sin or a moral code. Christians made many mistakes in the past and i also dont approve of the church treatment of romas in the past.

[/quote]

Typical roma thinking.Rarely you can find such a conservative kind as the roma.

medieval europeans wash themselves only once a year and today the only ones that continue this custom are some groups of roma.



Homosexuality is harmless.Unlike smoking which is bad for you and your human fellows nearby .



Indians ,i believe ,have a concept of sin(its call pap),though somehow different from the christian concept of sin(for exemple there is no eternal punishment for a limited sin) and definitely there is karma concept.



Indian architecture is truly amazing .Nowhere in the world can you find similar sculptural concepts.

Though some sculptors(or maybe their patrons)let themselves carried by the wave .

[RomaIndian]

[quote name='RomaIndian' date='07 April 2010 - 08:45 AM' timestamp='1270625833' post='105767']

It is weird when it is seen from a Judeo Christian world view. That worldview is still in infancy.

Human beings have a history of more than 10000 years.

[/quote]



It is also weird if seen from a islamic point of view or agnostic, atheist point of view. In hinduism people drink cow urine and think its healthy and makes them clean, they pray to rats (most unhygienic and disease spreading animal), they pray to snakes, then there is kamasutra which tells of eunuchs who practice oral sex on men and think its a holy spiritual thing, also in tantric teachings they worship the vagina. in manusmirti sudras are called of law origin and killing of a sudra is equal the killing of a bird or frog.



* 8.270 says Shudra are of low origin.

* 2.31 says a Shudra must be named something contemptible

* 3.164 equates a breeder of sporting-dogs, a falconer, one who defiles maidens, he who delights in injuring living creatures, he who gains his subsistence, with Shudra.

* 8.147 says a Brahmana can just seize the goods of Shudra for he is not permitted to have any property

* 9.178 says a son a Brahmana begets through lust on a Shudra female is a living corpse -- who is to determine it is by lust or true love, I don’t know!!

* 10.129 says a Shudra is not allowed to accumulate wealth because Shudra with wealth will give pain to Brahmanas.

* 11.131 & 132 equate the punishment for murdering a Shudra with that of cat, dog, frog, bird, etc. The punishment can be as mild and beneficial to Brahmana as giving ten white cows and one bull to a Brahmana.



there is also the caste system which is very racist, hindus say they are tolerant but yet they hate christians and kill them, they also hate sudras and dalits, high castes denie low castes to enter temples. i dont approve of traditional christianity but i read the new testament (jesus teachings) and they are about peace and love and that all men are brothers. i think it would be better for india if they adopt some christian teachings of equality among castes and get some morals. Sorry if i offended somebody.

[RomaIndian]

[quote name='HareKrishna' date='08 April 2010 - 12:48 AM' timestamp='1270683600' post='105776']

Typical roma thinking.Rarely you can find such a conservative kind as the roma.

medieval europeans wash themselves only once a year and today the only ones that continue this custom are some groups of roma.



Homosexuality is harmless.Unlike smoking which is bad for you and your human fellows nearby .



Indians ,i believe ,have a concept of sin(its call pap),though somehow different from the christian concept of sin(for exemple there is no eternal punishment for a limited sin) and definitely there is karma concept.



Indian architecture is truly amazing .Nowhere in the world can you find similar sculptural concepts.

Though some sculptors(or maybe their patrons)let themselves carried by the wave .

[/quote]



Im proud to be Roma and Conservative, romas have a strict moral code, they also marry as virgins (though very young). Yes indian architecture is amazing, and i love hindu arts. I like hinduism some things should be changed. VHP and RSS are on a good path and i like what they make out of hinduism.

[HareKrishna]

[quote name='RomaIndian' date='08 April 2010 - 01:51 PM' timestamp='1270714413' post='105782']

Im proud to be Roma and Conservative, romas have a strict moral code, they also marry as virgins (though very young). Yes indian architecture is amazing, and i love hindu arts. I like hinduism some things should be changed. VHP and RSS are on a good path and i like what they make out of hinduism.

[/quote]

I don't see any moral code in virginity or in anti-gay-ism.

The real moral code should stick whit the obvious ones-don't kill,don't steal,don't rape,don't agrees other people,defend people from dangers,work for people prosperity on all plans.

[Guest]

RomaIndian,

You are very confused person, You are mixing law of city at that time with religion. If you want to bash Hinduism based whatever you have your Church preached you, first get your facts right.

You have started this thread on Gay issue, now you are moving from one topic to another.

We can discuss how Christian Hitler persecuted Gays, Romas and Jews all over Europe when Christian Church either supported Christian Hitler or look other side when one of their own sheep was busy in genocide.



First learn meaning of OM. Next name Hindu's religious text.

[RomaIndian]

[quote name='Mudy' date='08 April 2010 - 05:23 PM' timestamp='1270743339' post='105789']

RomaIndian,

You are very confused person, You are mixing law of city at that time with religion. If you want to bash Hinduism based whatever you have your Church preached you, first get your facts right.

You have started this thread on Gay issue, now you are moving from one topic to another.

We can discuss how Christian Hitler persecuted Gays, Romas and Jews all over Europe when Christian Church either supported Christian Hitler or look other side when one of their own sheep was busy in genocide.



First learn meaning of OM. Next name Hindu's religious text.

[/quote]



I dont want to bash hinduism you made me say those things about hinduism because you attacked me as being "a hater" and biased because of "judeo-christian" worldwiev. In church i never heard anything about hinduism (and i barely go to church, because i think you can pray to god everywhere) i read many things about hinduism and watched documentaries on TV since i took interest in hinduism. I think hinduism in its essence is a good religion but there are some weird things growing and superstition like the aghoris who smoke marihuana and practice cannibalism and i also dont approve of hindu teachings towards sex (maybe it is something good for liberal western hippies but not for me) but i know that not all hindus agree on everything other hindus teach, hinduism is a large religion and there are many different ways and i support hindus who are against premarital sex, lesbianism, gayism, bestiality,drugs, etc.