Indian Missile News And Discussion

[Raj Malhotra]

Any cruise missile will require space for sensors like radar seeker and IR seeker, two way data link etc. Indian tech in engine expertise and seeker tech is way behind US & European standards. In any case, dimensions of missile are like Tomhawk, hence the missile weight cannot be lesser unless the average density of missile is reduced. If Russia and Israel are involved even then their missiles are not any less heavier. The 1000kg will fit if we are looking at JASSAM but then dimensions will go wrong. Anyway, this is idle speculation. My feeling is DRDO is attempting a single missile for all types of uses while it would make more sense to have a lighter and heavier missile combination like Harpoon & Tomhawk, which may be technology wise less challenging.



What is your current guess for weight of our in stock 20kt fission device, advanced 20kt fission device, 20kt boosted, 50kt booster, 100-300kt fusion etc





My guess - 300kg, 200kg, 150kg, 250kg, 350-450kg

[Guest]

Arun_S, and others,

This is a video that discusses pakistan's nuclear arsenal security and other nuclear related issues. But the interesting thing is what this missile is doing at 2:06 onwards. This is a missile that is doing spiralling loops as it ascends! Is this a launch failure or a cunning ascent designed to fool whatever?

[url="http://rt.com/Politics/2010-04-13/nuclear-threat-exists-pakistan.html?fullstory#"]Link[/url]

[Arun_S]

[quote name='Raj Malhotra' date='18 April 2010 - 11:22 AM' timestamp='1271569464' post='105966']

What is your current guess for weight of our in stock 20kt fission device, advanced 20kt fission device, 20kt boosted, 50kt booster, 100-300kt fusion etc





My guess - 300kg, 200kg, 150kg, 250kg, 350-450kg

[/quote]



I agree.

The 20kt FBF may be as light as 100 kg

[Arun_S]

[quote name='Gagan' date='18 April 2010 - 09:47 PM' timestamp='1271606995' post='105976']

Arun_S, and others,

This is a video that discusses pakistan's nuclear arsenal security and other nuclear related issues. But the interesting thing is what this missile is doing at 2:06 onwards. This is a missile that is doing spiralling loops as it ascends! Is this a launch failure or a cunning ascent designed to fool whatever?

[url="http://rt.com/Politics/2010-04-13/nuclear-threat-exists-pakistan.html?fullstory#"]Link[/url]

[/quote]



Dont know what type of missile is that. Could be 2 stage ABM in normal mode, or sub launched missile on threshold of stabelity as it leaps into air in awkward orientation.

[babbupandey]

I know I am deviating a little bit, does anyone have an idea about the status of Nirbhay cruise missile. It was supposed to be tested in 2009, or is the army happy with Brahmos?

[ramana]

Gagan, Its spiralling because of loss of control during the ascent phase itself. So one of the fins or has broken of. Do a frame by frame sweep on your desktop. It might show up.



The Brahmos and Nirbhay are different type of missiles and no question of being satisfied with one or the other. There was a report about the Nirbhay development progress report. Try to find it.

[Guest]

Thanks ramana.



So it is indeed a launch failure. For a moment I thought it was some chankiyan move by the missile designers!

[Arun_S]

[url="http://www.hindu.com/2010/05/01/stories/2010050165161900.htm"]My link[/url]



01/05/2010 URL: http://www.thehindu.com/2010/05/01/stori...161900.htm [size="4"][color="blue"] Pilot production of airborne BrahMos begins [/color][/size]

Vladimir Radyuhin MOSCOW: Pilot production of the air-launched version of the India-Russia BrahMos missile has started in Russia in line with plans to fit it in the IAF's Su-30MKI fighter aircraft by 2012.



The first few missiles for factory tests have been manufactured at the Strela production association in the Orenburg Region, the Regnum news agency reported quoting regional government head Sergei Grachyov. Once the ground tests were completed, the plant would launch series production of the airborne missile, he said.



The 2.55-tonne BrahMos supersonic anti-ship missile has been modified, shedding 500 kg and getting a new ignition engine to fire the missile at high altitudes.



The Su-30MKI also required modifications to fit the missile under its belly and integrate it into the plane's fire control system. The Sukhoi Corporation is working to strengthen the wings so that two more missiles can be fitted in the flanks.



Flight tests



Flight tests of the air-launched BrahMos are expected next year, and the IAF plans to begin inducting the BrahMos-armed Su-30MKI in 2012. Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director of BrahMos Aerospace A.S. Pillai said earlier this month that 40 IAF Su-30MKI aircraft would be armed with BrahMos missiles.



Experts said the BrahMos-armed Su-30MKI would be a game changer in the Indian Ocean, giving the IAF a deeper strategic reach and an extra deadly punch. With a range of 290 km, the missile will allow the pilot to hit enemy vessels while staying well outside the reach of their air defences. Travelling at a top speed of Mach 2.8 barely 3-4 metres above the sea surface, the missile cannot be intercepted by any known weapon system in the world.



Russia's Irkut Corporation, which manufactures Sukhoi aircraft, counts on the air-launched BrahMos missile to increase the demand for Su-30 fighters in international markets.



“Initial studies suggest that we will be able to produce 250 more Su-30s armed with BrahMos missiles,” said Vladimir Sautov, vice-president for marketing.



The sea and ground-launch versions of BrahMos missiles have already been successfully tested and put into service by the Indian Army and Navy. So far, the missiles have been assembled at the Strela plant, and manufacturing facilities are also being set up in Thiruvananthapuram with Russian assistance.



BrahMos Aerospace, a joint venture between India and Russia, has started designing a hypersonic version of the BrahMos missile, BrahMos–II.

[Arun_S]

[url="http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137303"]

Report: Israel Nixes Weapons Sales to Turkey[/url]

by Maayana Miskin



Israel has begun turning down Turkey's requests to buy certain advanced weapons, according to the military news and analysis sites Jane's Defense Weekly and DEBKAfile. Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Recep Erdogan has made scathingly anti-Israel remarks, and has [url="http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/135478"]drawn closer to Syria and Iran[/url].



According to the report, the Turkish navy was interested in acquiring the Barak 8 missile interceptor, a system developed jointly by Israel and India. The system provides 360-degree coverage from missile or air attack.



Israeli sources said Turkey's request was rejected over fears that Turkey would allow Iran to study the technology.



Indian military leaders were also against the sale, fearing, like Israel, that the technology would be shared with Iran. From there, it could be traded to Pakistan in exchange for nuclear technology, they worried, giving the Pakistani army a technological boost.



The Israeli air force has been blocked from Turkish air space for training. India has developed close military ties with Israel and may be a possible solution.



In November 2009, DEBKAfile reported that Erdogan had promised Iran that it would have Turkish support in case of an Israeli attack on Iranian nuclear sites. Turkey agreed to pass on any intelligence information suggesting that Israel or the United States was preparing a strike on Iran, the report stated. (IsraelNationalNews.com)

[Arun_S]

[url="http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairw/articles/20100406.aspx"]BrahMos From On High[/url]

April 6, 2010: India has agreed to buy two more BrahMos missile regiments for the army, and to supply the BrahMos for the air force as well. The new regiments will have a more advanced block II missiles, which are more accurate and reliable at hitting pinpoint targets (like headquarters or technical installations) in crowded urban environments. The air launched version weighs 2.5 tons, the army and navy ones weigh three tons or more. The air force wants an even smaller, and lighter version of BrahMos, and the government has agreed to fund that work as well. India and Russia developed the weapon together, and now offer the BrahMos for export. [color="#0000ff"]The high price of each missile, about $2-3 million (depending on the version), restricts the number of countries that can afford it.[/color] The weapon entered service with the Indian navy in 2005.



[color="#0000ff"]Two years ago, India ordered 800 more of the new PJ-10 BrahMos missiles.[/color] Russia has not yet ordered any BrahMos, while India is also working on lighter versions for use by aircraft and submarines. The 3.2 ton BrahMos has a range of 300 kilometers and a 660 pound warhead. Perhaps the most striking characteristic is its high speed, literally faster (at up to 3,000 feet per second) than a rifle bullet. The maximum speed of 3,000 kilometers an hour makes it harder to intercept, and means it takes five minutes or less to reach its target. Guidance is GPS or inertial to reach the general area of the target (usually a ship or other small target), then radar that will identify the specific target and hit it. The warhead weighs 660 pounds, and the high speed at impact causes additional damage (because of the weight of the entire missile.)



The 9.4 meter (29 foot) long, 670mm diameter missile is an upgraded version of the Russian SS-NX-26 (Yakhont) missile, which was still in development when the Cold War ended in 1991. Lacking money to finish development and begin production, the Russian manufacturer eventually made a deal with India to finish the job. India put up most of the $240 million needed to finally complete two decades of development. The PJ-10 is being built in Russia and India, with the Russians assisting India in setting up manufacturing facilities for cruise missile components. Efforts are being made to export up to 2,000, but no one has placed an order yet. Russia and India are encouraged enough to invest in BrahMos 2, which will use a scramjet, instead of a ramjet, in the second stage. This would double speed, and make the missile much more difficult to defend against.



India plans to make the missile a major weapon system. The BrahMos can carry a nuclear warhead, but is designed mainly to go after high value targets that require a large warhead and great accuracy. The BrahMos could take out enemy headquarters, or key weapons systems (especially those employing electronic or nuclear weapons.)

[Raj Malhotra]

[quote name='Arun_S' date='03 May 2010 - 09:23 AM' timestamp='1272858343' post='106200']

[url="http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairw/articles/20100406.aspx"]BrahMos From On High[/url] The air force wants an even smaller, and lighter version of BrahMos, and the government has agreed to fund that work as well

[/quote]





Does this line mean that India ande Russia are working together on a Brahmos lighter than 2.5tons?? or it is DDM for 2.5tons version? I think that an indigenous version like Kh-31 is essential and in any case 2.5tons is simply toooo much for airforce planes or even Naval conventional subs.

[sai_k]

still trying to under the IAF requirements on Brahmos.. would it be still surface to surface? or an air-launched version. If A-S, then it can definitely be scaled down on the boosters and reduced fuel. Advanced materials can further bring down weight.



Q: What would be the fuel for the scramjet version? H!?

[ramana]

The first batches are the block II model ground based for precision strike. Will complement the P-II conventional missiles.

The next ones are airborne version for SU -30MKIs, most likely with same block II guidance

Dont know about the scram jet.

[Arun_S]

[quote name='sai_k' date='08 May 2010 - 07:33 PM' timestamp='1273326910' post='106274']

still trying to under the IAF requirements on Brahmos.. would it be still surface to surface? or an air-launched version. If A-S, then it can definitely be scaled down on the boosters and reduced fuel. Advanced materials can further bring down weight.



Q: What would be the fuel for the scramjet version? H!?

[/quote]



BrahMos-AS will definitely carry the legacy of Block-II.



Scram-jet fuel: from published reports clearly indicates it will be ATF (refined Kerosene)

[Arun_S]

[url="http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=awst"]Su-30MKI To Get Indian Nirbhay Cruise Missile[/url]

By Douglas Barrie, Neelam Mathews

London, New Delhi



India intends to integrate a variant of its Nirbhay long-range cruise missile on the Suhkoi Su-30MKI Flanker strike aircraft, following the weapon’s initial development in the ground-launch configuration.



The addition of the Nirbhay to the Flanker’s weapons inventory would give the platform a long-range—and potentially strategic—strike capability. While details on the Nirbhay program remain scant, Indian officials have suggested the weapon will have a range of 800-1,000 km. (500-620 mi.).



An air-launched derivative of the Nirbhay would be a candidate platform for the air force element of India’s strategic nuclear triad ambitions. Packaging of a warhead in the constrained space of a cruise-missile body is a key technical challenge. The current Indian air force nuclear weapon capability consists almost certainly only of free-fall weapons.



The Nirbhay project is being led by India’s Defense Research and Development Organization’s (DRDO) Hyderabad-based Advanced Systems Laboratory.



The overall design and aerodynamic study work has been completed, as has the design of the propulsion system. There are suggestions that a mock-up of the design could be displayed at the AeroIndia show in 2011. A transporter erector launch vehicle is already being developed for the ground-launched version of the cruise missile by the DRDO’s Pune-based Research and Development Establishment (Engineering).



The acquisition of a 1,000-km.-class cruise missile is part of New Delhi’s strategy to match and surpass systems being developed by Islamabad. Pakistan is working on a ground-launched cruise missile called the Babur, likely with substantial Chinese help, and is probably receiving support from South Africa in developing the Ra’ad air-launched weapon. The Babur was unveiled in 2005 and the shorter-range Ra’ad was announced in 2007. The service status of both weapons remains uncertain.



Development of the Nirbhay apparently began at least five years ago. It would be the third indigenous weapon to equip the Su-30MKI, joining the Brahmos supersonic cruise missile—a variant of the NPO Mashinostroenia 3M55 (SS-N-26)—and the Astra medium-range air-to-air missile. The Nirbhay would have three times the range of the Brahmos. The army is also acquiring a ground-launched land-attack version of the Brahmos alongside the system in development for the air force.



An air-launched variant of the subsonic Nirbhay “is in the initial stages,” says an Indian industry official. There are “plans for it, but not immediately,” he adds.



The Nirbhay likely adopts a conventional cruise missile configuration with some form of flip-out mid-body wing and cruciform tail surfaces. The turbofan engine most likely will be recessed in the airframe body, given the requirement that the weapon be canister-launch-capable.



It is not yet clear which turbojet India plans to use for the Nirbhay. [color="#0000ff"]{>>Arun: If one looks hard into DRDO/Defense establishment publications from last 7 years one can easily determine the size and thrust of the engine that will power Nirbhay}[/color]. It did strike a deal with Russia over the supply and in-country manufacture of the Saturn 36MT engine in 2006, though the extent to which this deal has been implemented is uncertain.



There are also suggestions that India’s development program has had some technical support from Israel.



Given the [color="#800080"]size of the Nirbhay—reports suggest it is 6 meters (19.6 ft.)[/color]—the Su-30MKI would likely carry one or two of the missiles. To maximize platform range, the aircraft could carry one weapon on a pylon in the tunnel between the two engine bays. This is the approach being taken with the Brahmos missile, which is now scheduled to begin initial launch trials from a test aircraft in 2011. If the aircraft were to carry two Nirbhays, one could fit under each inboard wing-station.



New Delhi has also yet to disclose what kinds of mid-course and terminal guidance the Nirbhay will use. India and Russia did, however, strike a deal this year allowing Indian access to the high-precision signal of Moscow’s Glonass satellite navigation system.



In terms of medium-range standoff weapons, the Indian air force’s Su-30MKI can carry the Russian Missile Corp. Kh-59M (AS-18 Kazoo). A conventional variant of the Nirbhay, with the requisite level of accuracy, would provide a long-range precision-strike complement to the Kh-59M.

[emperor]

^^^^



I just got confirmation from DRDO to the post I posted previously sometime back about Nirbhay.



The 2 variants of Nirbhay are in the making with different ranges. MKI-1200km,MKII-2500+ km. Both these variants will see operational role from all types of platforms from aircrafts,ships,landbased to submarines.



Also said that,Nirbhay flying at sub-sonic at 0.7-0.8M during cruise phase will have a tendency to go supersonic in the terminal flights.

MKI will be carried by all flying platforms of IAF including those to be inducted MRCA and FGFA.

[ramana]

Good news CG.



One has to look at the whole gamut of strategic thinking that went into the development of cruise missiles in the nuclear delivery system. Conventional payloads were an after thought for precision attack and not the primary role. And precision attack was to limit collateral damage in Third World actions to preserve legitimacy for use of force.



So Nirbhay is not just a precision conventional weapon. It changes the strategic weapons paradigm. TSP is not going to arm the Babur with conventional payloads. Neither should India. That will be self limiting.

[emperor]

Ramana,



What I have realised is that,Nirbhay-MKI will be mass produced to give an upper hand for IAF,IA in terms of precission attack.Strategic thinkers are putting their money on Nirbhay-MKII.Be it due to its extra range or could be its purpose built for nuclear strike role.But for IAF,I heard it is getting one more extra precision guided weapon apart from Nirbhay-MKI.Some circles have been saying that the first test is due 2013 for such air to ground munition with some 800-1000km range.What is more interesting is that IAF is envincing more zeal and interest on desi precision guided weapons.

[Arun_S]

Chandragupt: Interesting to hear about the mindset of forces.



IMHO India needs weapons that it can use in small or big skirmish or outright war. Precision and range is critical to allow generals and strategists during war and use to elicit a specific strike to enemy military node. So BrhaMos Block-II, Nirbhay and long range standoff bombs (precision gliding bomb with range of > 100 km) are the tools required.



During war it is almost impossible to discern the type of missile coming, thus stratgic weapons calculations have to be build into the framework of any military operation. I am not that worried if Sagarika is a dedicated carrier of strategic payload or can also carry conventional payload. But sub-sonic CM should preferable stay conventional, and be available in plenty.



Keep it coming.

[Arun_S]

[size="4"] [/size]



Date:14/05/2010 URL: [url="http://www.thehindu.com/2010/05/14/stories/2010051465581500.htm"]http://www.thehindu....51465581500.htm[/url]

[size="4"][color="blue"][url="http://www.thehindu.com/2010/05/14/stories/2010051465581500.htm"]Fresh user trial of Agni-II on Monday from Wheeler's Island off Orissa coast[/url][/color][/size]

Y. Mallikarjun HYDERABAD: After two failures in a row, a flight test of Agni-II, nuclear weapon capable intermediate range surface-to-surface missile, is scheduled to be conducted from the Wheeler's Island off the Orissa coast on May 17.



A team from the Strategic Forces Command will conduct the “user trial” of the 2,000 km plus range weapon system.



It will be picked up randomly from the production lot since the missile has already been inducted.



Defence Research and Development Organisation officials told The Hindu that the test was meant to re-establish confidence and confirm the missile's readiness in the wake of two failed flight tests in May and November last year.



On both the occasions, Agni-II tumbled into the sea after losing its speed and deviating from its flight path, just before the separation of the second stage of the missile. The two trials were carried out by Strategic Forces Command personnel as part of user training exercise.



The officials attributed the failure during the previous tests to “quality-related problems” and said there was “no fundamental flaw” with the design.



With the successful test-firing of the 3,500-km plus range Agni-III in February and the 700-km range Agni-I in March this year, this would be the first time that all the three Agni class of missiles will be tested in such a short time.



The two-stage solid-propelled, Agni-II is 21 metres tall and capable of carrying a payload of one tonne to a distance of 2,000 km.



It has a special navigation system to improve accuracy and a manoeuvring re-entry vehicle enabling it to change course during re-entry.



It is also equipped with anti-ballistic missile defence counter measures.