Christian Subversion And Missionary Activities - 6

[HareKrishna]

Rael calls for African"de-baptism" campaign to counter Pope Benedict's evangelism program

http://raelianews.org/news.php?item.380.1

n his recent remarks to a synod of African bishops, Pope Benedict reportedly said that although the period of colonialism is over, the developed world is still exporting "toxic spiritual rubbish" in the form of materialism. He also referred to an "urgent" need for Catholic evangelism in Africa to combat this new form of colonization.



"What's urgently needed is exactly the opposite," commented Maitreya Rael, spiritual leader and founder of the worldwide Raelian Movement."What Kama [the original, pre-colonial name for Africa used by its native inhabitants] really needs is large de-baptism campaigns to remove people from the influence of the colonizer religions, especially Christianity. "



He said that although political the decolonization of Africa has been "partially accomplished," the spiritual counterpart of that liberation has yet to occur.



“The need for spiritual decolonization is what's urgent," Rael Maitreya said. "The people of Kama must apostatize from Christianity, a religion that insults the memory of their ancestors. Those ancestors can't rest in peace because they're watching their descendants practice the religion of the colonizers, who forcibly conquered them through bloodshed and made them convert to Christianity the same way."



He urged Africans to return to their pre-colonization religions after renouncing Christianity.



"This is the only way they can please their ancestors, who are watching them," Rael Maitreya said.

[acharya]

An evangelist marks Diwali with the Gospel in India



India (MNN/STM) ― Diwali means "fiery bunch" in Sanskrit -- an apt name for the festival of lights recently celebrated throughout India, symbolizing the victory of good over evil.



It was a 5-day celebration that ended on Tuesday, November 9. Evangelist Sammy Tippit marked it by proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus in the state of Punjab. Hundreds responded.



Tippit gave a simple but powerful Gospel presentation each evening. He told the audience, "God loves you and has a plan for you and your family. But we have a major problem - sin. God is holy, and our sin separates us from Him. That's why Jesus came to this planet: to take the punishment for our sins."



Rev. Nazir Masih, pastor of the First Baptist Church of Chandigahr, said, "The people are really hungry. They are coming with open hearts, and God is filling their hearts with His love and grace."



By the end of the week, news of the meetings had spread by word of mouth, and the crowds were so large that the tent constructed for the meetings could not contain all the people. One of the leading pastors said, "There is a spirit of revival here. God is doing something wonderful. God has given us a great harvest of souls."



Knowing that the Holy Spirit is at work in India, preparations were already in place to give the church leaders encouragement and tools to continue the work begun during the week through a pastor's conference.



Leaders came from Amristar, the center of Sikhism in India, and villages surrounding the city of nearly two million. Many Sikhs have come to Christ and are now reaching out to others.



Pastors and church leaders told how God had worked in their lives. One pastor said, "I've gone through many difficulties, but God has shown me that I must wait upon Him. He will renew my strength." Another said, "I need to go daily and drink from the waters that flow from God's throne." The pastors were filled with renewed strength and hope.



Tippit spoke to the pastors about "Revival in the Race." Many of them said that the messages helped them to know how to endure and build Christ-like character. The revival ignited these pastors into a "fiery bunch" of purpose, sharing the true victory of Christ over spiritual darkness.(This Idiot needs to read Swami Vivekanada's work to get light from his mental darkness) his darkness Keep praying that these pastors would maintain their vision and stay true to the Word of God.





Sammy Tippit Ministries

About this Organization



* News for This Organization

* Profile Page



Sammy Tippit Ministries

Phone: (210) 492-7501

Fax: (210) 492-4522

Web site

P.O. Box 781767 San Antonio, TX

78278





http://www.mnnonline.org/article/14952

[Husky]

1. Not about this article itself, but the words are an interesting admission (give useful insight) on how Hindu religion is perceived:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-schre...86099.html

However, the key point of differentiation between Hinduism and these other faiths is not polytheism vs. monotheism. The key differentiation is that "Hinduism" is Open Source and most other faiths are Closed Source.



"Open source is an approach to the design, development, and distribution of software, offering practical accessibility to a software's source code."

Interesting choice of words.

More generally explains why everything Hindu is viewed and treated as Open Source. Must be why christianism feels itself free to pillage from Hindu religion and brand the stolen parts its own. (Christianism certainly viewed GrecoRoman religio-tradition as Open Source...)



And so one sees more recent oxymorons such as "christian yoga" ("islamic yoga" too! <- 2 instances of that last which I've noticed so far, one of which was on a Malay website mentioning how yoga had something to do with his non-existence jeebusjehovallah again).



The real blame lies at the feet of all those indians who were selling Hindu religion in the west as a free-for-all pillage fest. Only natural that others merely followed in their footsteps: when individual indians were selling it to them for free (no matter that no Hindu would ever have shared it, as Hindu religion isn't shareable, certainly not piecemeal), surely non-indians can sell it too? After all, wasn't it sold to them as being generically "spiritual and non-religious" in the first place?



And such cheapening is why Yoga's moreover been reduced not just to exercise, not even only to "relationship experts" advocating it for boosting people's libido, but now also to how that official playboy dude - what's the name of that near-dead dinosaur, oh whatever - how his organisation released a "Playboy Yoga Video" featuring one among his harem doing "Yoga" both in apparel and in the flesh.



What's wrong with that? Well, it's Hindu religion. How to explain. It's like if they were to use our sacred Hindu shlokas as soundtrack of their next video release. (But I'm sure that indians out there have sold shlokas too by now. What are they called, "chants"? Didn't they already sell Hindu keertanas as some 'non-Hindu', 'generic', 'spiritual' relaxative as well?)



Hindus needn't be alarmed. There is no genuine Yoga in the west. The west has merely heard the word, learnt to meaninglessly mimic some random poses and at times regurgitate with shallow conception some of the theory behind them (but these just end up in new-agey half-baked "spiritual" lingo). Since then it has therefore been (misusing) all these words and poses, which remain meaningless words and poses in their hands. But no actual Yoga in the west. People selling it there aren't authorised to sell it and so it doesn't work for the salesmen and not for their customers either. And hence it keeps ending up Not Computing to them, as seen also in how it is sold as bottled 'hinduism-lite' or even generic "spirituality", as mere beneficial "exercise", or the more extreme examples such as the "yoga" video by playboy.



Still, should never have allowed people to sell what was not shareable in the first place. Meanwhile many Hindus continue to think that the popularity of "yoga" in the west is somehow a sign of "our" (who's?) "success". If ignorant kids in your family had a garage sale and sold off priceless family heirlooms (which are specifically not for sale) at a tuppence a piece to others, and those others then paraded your valuables as their own, in the sewer room of their mansion, for you and others to come marvel at - of course it works out to be a compliment to you. (Not.) But Indians are ready to believe this, why?





2. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/waylon-lew...41222.html

Waylon Lewis

Founder of elephantjournal.com and the Walk the Talk Show

Posted: October 31, 2009 08:24 PM



Playboy Yoga?! Now We've Seen Everything



Now we've seen it all: Playboy Yoga videos with Sara Jean Underwood.



It was only a matter of time, the ultimate challenge to those "Yobo" fans who say that Yoga for Weight Loss, Disco Yoga, Bikram, Adidas Yoga with (my friend) Rainbeau Mars and Yoga without all that annoying granola, Chanting or Sanskrit may not be "traditional yoga" (a moving target in and of itself), but nevertheless may help open the door to those who might not ordinarily be interested in pure yoga, true yoga, quality yoga.

(Again: There *is* no yoga in the west. There's just exercise. And new agey sermonising which is but a diluted, cheap and meaningless shadow of stolen Hindu Yoga teachings.)



Well, Sara Jean Underwood, a young lady who won the 2007 Playmate of the Year award, has inaugurated a new series of yoga videos that are all over the Playboy.com site. Yup, there's a new url in town:



www.playboy.com/yoga



Just the url itself is enough to provoke convulsions, grimaces, grins, vomiting and/or ogling. Beauty -- or otherwise -- is in the eye of the beholder.



This is provocative stuff -- it raises some tough questions about the Future of Yoga (some of which are addressed by elephant, yogadork, itsallyogababy, and joellhahn in comments, by our readers in the links above).

(Neither the questions nor answers are up to the west/christos/whoever else to contemplate. Yoga never was nor shall ever be theirs to have a say in; no say about its past, present nor future. Like I said: what they do - what they know - isn't yoga.)



In any case, as the Buddhists say, it's our obstacles or enemies that are our best friends, provoking self-examination, questioning and growing pains.



Now we've seen everything.*

Oh yeah, almost forgot to add. To make matters even worse:

Of all the people one feared would speak up on this subject, that self-appointed representative of who/whatever "Rajan Zed" or something - who, when he's not booing trivially in cheap 'defence' of hindooism because he doesn't know to pick the right fights and certainly doesn't know how to argue the Right point in the Right way, is far more frequently seen in Google news inaugurating interfaith 'stuff' with Catholics, Mormons, and other christian=terrorist cults, and who was most recently seen congratulating the Vatican for its "Deepavali greetings" (=ill fortune, as everything that emanates from Vatican's foul breath is like a deathly frost to flowers) -

yes, *that* Rajan Zed, of all people, has been booing at the Playboy Yoga Video. That's how desperate/laughable the situation is. I suppose, viewed optimistically, his inclusion in the story is but perfect: adding some unwanted comedy to the entire tragedy. But oh, can't he just go back to his favourite hobby of fraternising with Hindu religion's declared enemy (christianism) again (but preferably not under his assumed position as the un-invited representative of hindus)?





Hindus should declare all parts of their religion permanently off bounds for aliens, thereby reclaiming all the sacred aspects belonging to their religion. That's the cure.

The *prevention*, as usual, would have been far easier: if only all the cheap opportunistic indians - looking for fame, fast money and/or wo/men in the west - stopped selling Hindu religion, which they obviously care/know nothing about. Why can't they just sell themselves instead. I am most willing to help them auction themselves off.



I am ever reminded of the wise Nakota/Dakota/Lakota NA Native Americans and their landmark declaration - the one where they banned all aliens from stealing from their religion, and declared as enemies all of their 'own' kind who sold any part of their sacred religion to alien elements. But Indians are not so wise.

[Bharatvarsh2]

Death

In 1752, the original order of the King and his Dewan was to deport him from Travancore, into the Pandya country, at Aralvaimozhy. He was let off in the forested hills near Aralvaimozhy. There, he is believed to have begun deep meditations, and the people from the adjacent villages began visiting the holy man. According to Christian sources, at this time, high caste Hindus plotted to do away with Devasahayam.



Some people believe that the soldiers went up the forested hills and tried to shoot Devasahayam, but were unable to fire; after which he took the gun in his hands, blessed it and gave it back to the soldiers to shoot him to death, if they wished to. The soldiers took the gun back and fired at him five times.



Devasahayam Pillai died at Kattadimalai on 14 January 1752.[1]



[edit] Canonisation efforts and controversy

In 1780, Kariattil Ouseph Malpan submitted a petition for canonisation of Devasahayam to the Vatican. [3] In 1984, a group of laymen took the initiative to seek the beatification of Devasahayam. [5] This is unusual for a layman,[1] but he is regarded as one who was totally devoted to Christ.[4] Many Christian devotees have been offering prayers at his tomb.[4] The Catholic Bishops' Conference of India (CBCI) recommended his beatification, following scrutiny of available historical evidence.[4] Bishop Chrysostom said that the (CBCI) did not intend any controversy.[4]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devasahayam_Pillai

If you know your Xtianity and Xtian behavior by now you will have guessed correctly that this is most likely a Xtian lie. The facts are:

Proposed beatification of Devasahayam Pillai

CBCI?s claim challenged



Dr Balram Misra

Conversion has often given shelter to those trying to justify their disproportionate property, or socially unacceptable marriage bonds. How does it help in cases of sedition, albeit retrospectively, will be evidenced by a decision of the Catholic Bishops Conference of India (CBCI) to recommend beatification of an 18th century Hindu turned Christian, Devasahayam Pillai (or Dev Sagayam Pillai). In its annual convention at Thrissur (Kerala), the CBCI has unanimously decided to recommend beatification for Devasahayam Pillai, said to be the army chief of Travancore, Hindu king Martanda Varma. According to Catholic sources, Devasahayam Pillai was executed by the king because the former had embraced Christianity. Catholics treat Pillai as a martyr on the basis of a story invented by historian Mackenzie. Prof. A. Sreedhara Menon, the noted historian and author of many books on the history of Travancore says: "Leave alone execution, not even a single case of persecution was recorded in the history of Travancore in the name of religious conversion. It is a concocted story and figment of imagination." According to Prof. Menon, during the 29-year regime beginning from 1729, Martanda Varma had executed several people, irrespective of caste, even some members of his royal family, not in the name of conversion but on charges of treason. He pointed out: "How can you say that the erstwhile Travancore rulers persecuted Christians when history records that they had even permitted the dewans like Colonel Munroe to take over the administration of Devaswoms?"



M.G.S. Narayanan, a former chairman of Indian Council of Historical Research, said that he had never come across anyone named either Neelakantan Pillai or Devasahayam Pillai as army chief of Martanda Varma in Kerala history. The head of Vivekananda Kendra, P. Parameswaran has rightly pointed out that the CBCI?s move is an attempt to hurt the Hindu sentiments. He says: "The CBCI?s act of unanimously passing a resolution to canonise a traitor to the state simply because he converted to Christianity shows a very low level of decency and patriotism. How can such an august body pass a resolution without fully ascertaining the facts?" Quoting from the Travancore State Manual, he said that Devasahayam was not an army chief of Martanda Varma, as CBCI claims. He was an employee of the royal Varma household. Parameswaran insisted that Devasahayam Pillai was executed because he had tampered with the official palace records and passed them on to De Lannoy, commander of the Dutch army. Raja Martanda Varma executed him only after confirmation of the act of sedition. The Raja had right over the life and property of his subjects?in terms of the then prevalent laws. "To attribute this punishment to religious vendetta or intolerance is the height of injustice", said Parmeswaran.



http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules...=1&page=11

How did Travancore treat the Xtians:

He was addressed as Dharma Raja on account of his strict adherence to Dharma Sastra, the principles of justice by providing asylum to thousands of Hindus and Christians fleeing Malabar during the religious and military onslaught of Tipu Sultan.



An interesting insight into the religious tolerance of the Maharajah is gained through a letter by Pope Clement XIV wherein His Holiness thanked the Maharajah for the kindness to the members of his church in Travancore and officially placed all the Christians in Travancore under the protection of the sovereign.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma_Raja

Captain de Lannoy and twenty-four other Dutchmen were taken prisoners, while the rest of the Dutchmen either retreated to their ships or were killed. Donadi, de Lannoy’s lieutenant was also captured.



[edit] Appointment as a Travancore Army Commander

The Dutch prisoners expressed their willingness to serve the Maharaja of Travancore. De Lannoy was entrusted with the job of training a Regiment of the army in European tactics of war and discipline. Captain de Lannoy performed this task to the entire satisfaction of Marthanda Varma and the Maharaja appointed him as one of his Generals. Donadi also was given a high military post.



As a Christian, de Lannoy was prohibited from entering the king’s palace at Padmanabhapuram and he resided primarily at Udayagiri Fort, or De Lannoy Kotta (de Lannoy’s Fort) as it is locally called, where he also built a small chapel for his family and other Christians.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eustachius_De_Lannoy

This is how Xtians repay tolerance and kindness.



Had these raja's done the right thing and let these scum get massacred by Tipu we would have much less trouble.

[Bharatvarsh2]

flight of the deities: hindu resistance in portuguese goa



http://www.jstor.org/pss/313013



Uploaded as PDF here:



http://pdfcast.org/pdf/hindu-resistance-...inquisiton



or



http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ISWIQUP5

[Guest]

Christian population has more than doubled in the last ten years because of conversion.



http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers4...r4191.html



Operation World which tracks the growth of Christianity around the globe lists up-to-date figures for India in its website. According to the website the annual Christian population growth rate in India at the present time shows a big jump at 3.7 percent compared to the overall annual population growth rate of 1.44 percent.[32] Accordingly, while the Christian population percentage was just 2.3 percent in 2001,[33] it has more than doubled rapidly to 5.84 percent as of 2010.[34]

[Bharatvarsh2]

India's new Bible wears a bindi



When Mary and Joseph discovered a power-hungry king was hunting their son Jesus Christ, they escaped to the safety of Egypt. But before Christianity's first family fled, barefoot Mary slipped into a sari and put a bindi on her forehead, while Joseph tied tight his long loincloth and turban.



At least, that's how their flight is illustrated in a Bible produced for Indians.

"Conversion is a human right," he says, fiddling with a large crucifix around his neck.



"We cannot refuse to others our beautiful way of life."

http://www.thestar.com/living/religion/a...rs-a-bindi

[Guest]

^^^

I see some of these activities as Indianisation (or Hinduisation) of Christianity. It is like Christianity has to bend to the Indic traditions, values and customs.

[Husky]

[quote name='Swamy G' date='02 December 2010 - 01:00 AM' timestamp='1291231338' post='109584']I see some of these activities as Indianisation (or Hinduisation) of Christianity.[/quote]You mean like

- the christian theft of the Cross of Dionysus (the Catholic Encyclopaedia will tell you that the church started using the cross from the 6th century),

- the GrecoRoman religious festivals stolen for jeebus,

- the Roman puja area turned into christian prayer alcoves,

- the conversion of Mediterranean vigrahas into christist ones,

- the takeover of the sites of heathen Temples and other sacred sites, all converted into "the holy sites of christianism",

- the copy-and-paste of GrecoRoman religious phrases and views into christianism, where they are perverted as heralding jeebusjehovallah instead,

- the takeover and subversion of Hellenistic education - to instill christoconditioning and deHeathenisation,

- etc etc

You think all that was the "Hellenisation of christianity"?

It was christian inculturation into Hellenismos.



Surely you can recall which of the two - Hellenismos or christianism - survived and which was genocided by the other? And how at least a part of this genocide was facilitated (i.e. one of the means employed for it: inculturation again)?



Should never underestimate inculturation, it has always been used as a weapon.

Inculturation is not only the illegal theft and trivialisation-misuse-profaning of sacred religious aspects belonging to other religions, it is also a direct warploy: like cryptochristianism, it is subterfuge.



Inculturation lulls Indians into a false sense of security through loss of immunity - an inability to make the necessary distinctions.



Christianism is an adept at using inculturation to destroy a traditional religion. Why do you think it is using it now - why its leaders would be strenuously promoting it (complete with theft of our shlokas, from even the Vedam) - when they were so faithfully christian in their absolute intolerant aversion to it before?

Nothing has changed about christianism's perspective: the babble is still the word of gawd and the 1st commandment against heathen religions/Gods still holds. The answer is: it's Means to an End.

It is like Christianity has to bend to the Indic traditions, values and customs.

Bindi and sari are not "customs", "traditions", "values". Not "culture".

Pottu/Bindi is deeply religious. As a Hindu you (ought to) know that, knowing what it means. And knowing it, your only reactions should be (a) anger at the christian theft and their misuse/profaning of something so sacred and hence (b ) resolve to prevent them.

Not to be indulging in hopeful fancies over it (and encouraging the same by expressing wishful thinking) and congratulating oneself that Indians/Hindus are somehow - by sheer magic, presumably - going to have the last laugh.



Christianism is always willing to wait centuries to get its prize. And they *plan* for the future and with the big picture in mind, and carefully implement their plans.

Inculturation too is very much part of the plan, as the early christian 'innovators' of 'Indian/Hindu inculturation' - and other Asian inculturation - stated to their most holy initially-disapproving bosses.





The christian sheep are deliberately kept ignorant by their calculating superiors about how the practices they are stealing are deeply, *religiously* Hindu and how inseparable the innate Hindooness of these things are from the practices themselves. Instead, they are fed stories of appropriation that have been concocted specifically to legitimise - to the christian sheep's mind - christianism's theft of Hindu practices and of the insinuation of christianism into these. (Meanwhile, the bible holds these very things as 'pagan' and, as such, of the gravest offence to his non-existence, the genocidal maniac jeebusjehovallah. Their own religion sentences the inculturating christos to the most serious of punishments for dabbling - even in ignorance - in what is Not Theirs and is contra-christianism: they are damned to a firey pit forevah <- as per their own babble, which heathens don't believe in, but they do.)

But christians/islamics have absolutely no right to these things, it is as unacceptable as all other vile anti-Hindu acts of christians. And Hindus should have denied them: by firmly taking their christian claws off our religion and placing them back in christianism's own dump.



The following should have been (the visible/vocal) Hindus' reasoning and position on the matter:

At root, what it (Julian's work "Contra Galilaeos"/"Against the Galilaeans") expressed was [...] a revulsion at (christians') efforts to assimilate the literary and philosophic heritage of the Greeks without accepting the religious values voiced in it. To Julian's mind, that seemed [color="#FF0000"]wreckage, not assimilation.[/color] And acceptance of those values was not for him just a process of thought. It demanded practice on the familiar principle of do ut des: 'We must maintain such rituals of the temples (ta en tois hierois) as ancestral custom prescribes, and we must perform neither more nor less than that to appease the gods the better.'81 On this point Julian's stance was basic and [color="#FF0000"]closed to argument: 'Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring.'[/color]

So too: those of Hindu ancestry converted to mental diseases who want to do Hindu things should be Hindu (a state mutually exclusive to the mindvirus ideologies) in order to do them. It is Hindu religio-culture, not 'culture'. That's all there is to it. That's the response the terrorist ideologies should be given: Revert or hands off.





People would likely have read the following stuff, it's from the book "Catholic Ashrams Sannyasins or Swindlers" by Sita Ram Goel. For those who haven't: read at link. And note how calculated all this is and try to understand the intention behind it:



http://www.voiceofdharma.com/books/ca/ch14.htm

CHAPTER 14

The Third Dialogue



This dialogue developed around a letter which K.V. Ramakrishna Rao wrote to the Indian Express in protest against Christian missionaries masquerading as Hindu sannyasins.





INDIAN EXPRESS, 13 FEBRUARY 1989



Crucifying the 'Om'



[...]





INDIAN EXPRESS, 16 FEBRUARY 1989



The Pranava and the Cross

http://www.voiceofdharma.com/books/ca/ch13.htm

They read the Vedas, Upanishads and the Gita as well as Tamil classics and other scriptures. They sing Tamil songs (bhajans), accompanied by drums and cymbals. Aarati is taken in solemn grandeur. At the morning worship sandal paste is used, as it is a symbol of divinity. Its aroma stands for Divine Grace. At noon kumkum is placed between the eyebrows as a symbol of the Third Eye, the inner eye of wisdom, which perceives Christ. Psalm 118/68, 95, 105 and 157 point to the discernment of Truth through the wisdom of Christ in us.



The 'Om' is universally used. It points to Lord God Almighty. It is the primordial sound from which the whole creation proceeds. To Christians this word is the Cosmic Christ, made flesh on earth. Om has entered many citadels of Christian places of worship all over the world including the Vatican. Popes and Cardinals have not forbidden the use of Om by Indian Christians.



Prof. S. Radhakrishnan has observed: "If Europe has interpreted Christianity in terms of their own culture of Greek thought and Roman organisation, there is no reason why the Indian Christian should not relate the message of the salvation in Christ to the larger spiritual background of India. Cannot we have Vedantic tradition in Christianity?"

If they haven't already, people really should inspect the rest of the material at http://www.voiceofdharma.com/books/ca/index.htm



The third eye and the Kungumam over it, and the PraNava Mantram, etc etc, have NOTHING to do with the non-existent demon jeebusjehovallah. The christian terrorists should likewise be kept away from the sacred Hindu scriptures in Samskritam/Tamizh/any other Bharatiya language. And Hindus of yesteryear would have made sure of it.

But today is another day and another people altogether. Entirely unrecognisable.

[Bharatvarsh2]

I suppose the more foolish among the Greeks and Roman's also thought that "it is like Christianity has to bend to the Greco-Roman traditions, values and customs" as the Christos were stealing their festivals and philosophy, well where are the Greeks and Romans now?



The modern day Greeks are Greeks only in name, instead of Zeus they worship Jeebus.



This is how Hindus will also end up if this THEFT is not stopped.



Also this RSS like obsession with "Indianization" is foolish. My problem with Xtianity is not its foreign origin but its truth claims and intolerant fanaticism inherent in this cult. If Xtian claims are true then what does it matter where it originated we should all convert to it, just as Newton's laws apply everywhere even if he himself discovered them in England. If they are false then we should reject it.

The term "indianization" implies that the problem with Islam is its un-Indianness. And this, in turn, would imply a nationalistically distorted view of religion: that a nation should only follow native traditions and shun foreign contributions in religion. By such standards, the adoption of Hinduism or Buddhism by the peoples of East and Southeast Asia would not be a matter of pride (as it seems to be for the Sangh) but a violation of the proper world order. The Khmers should have rejected Shiva and built their Angkor temple to some native deity; the Balinese should not enact the Ramayana but create an epic around a native hero instead. The "holyland" of many East-Asian Buddhists is not their own country, but India: the Mahabodhi temple was renovated in the 19th century by the king of Burma, and is now surrounded by guest-houses catering to many thousands of pilgrims from each Buddhist country every year. Should we deduce that these Thai or Japanese pilgrims are being "anti-national" by having such "extra-territorial" religious loyalty? And that the Mongolian and Chinese Communists were right to crack down on Buddhism? That would be the implication if we start reducing religions to their geographical provenance instead of studying their contents. In this case, patriotism is not the refuge of scoundrels, but of duffers.



This futile attempt to identify the Islam problem in terms of "Indian" vs. "foreign" implies a second similarity with certain undesirable xenophobic trends in the West. Semi-literate xenophobic ideologues in Europe identify Islam as "a foreign religion, fit for Asiatics but not for Europe". In their opinion, there is nothing wrong with Islam, as long as it remains in its country of origin. This is not too different from the applause given in Hindutva publications to Anwar Shaykh's thesis that "Islam is the Arab national movement". In his book Islam, the Arab National Movement, the Pakistan-born apostate author from Cardiff (with a death-warrant fatwa on his head since 1994) accurately documents how islamization has meant external arabization (names, clothes, script) for most converted populations, but wrongly infers that Islam is a form of Arab nationalism or Arab imperialism.



For the Sangh, this thesis was doubly welcome: it recast the Islam problem in the familiar, safely secular-sounding terms of nationalism, and it legitimized Islam ("See we're not against Islam?") all while limiting its legitimate geographical domain so as to exclude India from it. The implication is that Hinduism is Indian nationalism, and Islam is Arab nationalism. This is grossly unjust to the Arabs and the native Arab culture which Islam destroyed. There is nothing Arab about Islam, a doctrine confabulated by Mohammed from half-digested bits and pieces of Jewish and Christian lore, combined with his own extraordinary self-image and the hallucinations registered on his sensory nerves (the Quranic voice he "heard"). Except for a small minority of people attracted to Mohammed out of gullibility or lust for booty and power, the Arabs were only forced under the yoke of Islam after valiantly resisting it. For the sake of comparison, Communism was not the "Chinese national movement" just because Chairman Mao's Communists militarily wrested the country from the legitimate Nationalist Government of Chiang Kai-shek. The genuine Arab national movement was the so-called Ridda ("return" to god-pluralism) uprising against the Islamic state after Mohammed's death, in which the Arabs tried to restore their pluralistic culture.[7]



The review of Anwar Shaykh's work in Organiser was titled "Muslim proud of his Aryan heritage". This was, first of all, an untruthful statement. It is true that Anwar Shaykh has rediscovered the "Aryan" (i.e. Vedic) heritage which his great-grandfather had abandoned by converting to Islam.[8] But the consequence of this rediscovery was precisely the opposite of what the Organiser title suggests: he quit Islam, becoming a "non-Muslim proud of his Aryan heritage". Secondly, this title sent the wrong message to Indian Muslims. The message which Organiser sought to convey was that Indian Muslims should follow Anwar Shaykh's example: remain Muslim all while rediscovering their Aryan heritage (or with an older term, "indianizing" themselves). This was a replay of the Gandhian myth of the "nationalist Muslim" for whom Islam and Indianness are not incompatible.[9] But the case of Anwar Shaykh proved just the opposite: by rediscovering his Hindu heritage, a Muslim loses his Muslim identity. Islamic fanatics are wholly aware of this phenomenon, which is why they try to nip it in the bud, e.g. by forbidding Hindu religious music on Pakistani radio. The message of the Organiser should have been: "Indian Muslims, follow Anwar Shaykh's example, rediscover your Vedic heritage, and abandon Islam."



A similar case is that of BJP office-bearer Sikander Bakht. Mr. Bakht is a thorough gentleman, but his main value for the BJP is that he is a born Muslim. He is often shown off as the party's token Muslim, but just as often, angry Muslims write letters to the editor to explain that Mr. Bakht is not a Muslim at all. They say that he actually converted to Hinduism on the occasion of his marriage to a Hindu lady, and that his children were raised as Hindus. Now, when I am to choose between the BJP version and the Muslim version, I tend to attribute more credibility to the latter. If it is true that Mr. Bakht is a convert, I certainly applaud the BJP policy of giving due prominence to him. Only, they should have the sincerity and the wisdom to add the correct message, which is not: "We have Muslims as well", but: "We welcome Indian Muslims seeking the way out of Islam back into their ancestral culture."



http://www.bharatvani.org/books/bjp/section14.html

[Guest]

Pottu/Bindi is deeply religious. As a Hindu you (ought to) know that, knowing what it means. And knowing it, your only reactions should be (a) anger at the christian theft and their misuse/profaning of something so sacred and hence (b ) resolve to prevent them.

Sorry I disagree on this business of "ought to know". I wear those things because it is a tradition in my family. I use vibuthi because my parents and elders told me it protects me. Kungumam goes with it. I wear "gopi chandanam" because my both grand fathers use it. It is as simple as that. To me it brings a degree of satisfaction and protection. End of story for me. For my wife, it is similar too. We do not wear it all the time either. And for some women it is fashion.



Tradition in India, in many families, is handed over to the next generation without much fuss or information. While one can bemoan the loss of information, it is another thing to froth.



If you don't like what I am writing, tough luck. Now you are free to remove me from Hinduism. And I am free to have my opinion of these activities being "Indianisation" or "Hinduisation"



This is nothing new, J.A. Dubois and co tried this centuries ago.

[HareKrishna]

[quote name='Husky' date='02 December 2010 - 08:00 PM' timestamp='1291299773' post='109606']





Bindi and sari are not "customs", "traditions", "values". Not "culture".

Pottu/Bindi is deeply religious. As a Hindu you (ought to) know that, knowing what it means. And knowing it, your only reactions should be (a) anger at the christian theft and their misuse/profaning of something so sacred and hence (b ) resolve to prevent them.

[/quote]

Husky,i have 2 questions

1.You claim that bindi has a religious value.But every hindu i ask say that bindi is only for beauty and have no religious role.

2.You denied that there was monotheism in hinduism,but my topic from indian history section is a proof that early monotheism and vedanta monotheism did exist in hinduism and today is well spread among hindus.

[acharya]

[quote name='Swamy G' date='02 December 2010 - 11:11 PM' timestamp='1291311236' post='109609']

Sorry I disagree on this business of "ought to know".

[/quote]

Indian culture passes the traditions. It also passes the knowledge. This is preserved in the education from the past.



If the education is tampered then there is problem of transmition

[dhu]

Why taxpayers’ money is being wasted for Mother Express?

http://deshgujarat.com/2010/11/30/why-ta...r-express/

By Rupang Bhatt

Ahmedabad, 30 November, 2010







Missionary operated schools’ girls from tribal areas of south Gujarat visiting Mother Express in Surat





When I was in school, there was a chapter on Mother Teresa(MT) in my text book. I was taught how great human being MT was. By reading a chapter on MT, I too was impressed and throughout my student age I continued to have an impression that MT was like God walking on this planet.



Thankfully, I have grown up, and I’m realizing the reality today. I can easily conclude now that MT’s lesson in my text book was purposefully injected, and that could be surely a smart work of those who want to ultimately convert this nation to Christianity, like they did in Latin America, Africa, South Korea, like they have done in north east India and south India, like they have done in Gujarat’s Vyara or Dang and in many other parts of the world.



The lesson(still being taught) in the text book creates an impression that if white Christian missionary travels to India from foreign land, he/she does so to serve the people here. He/she sacrifices his/her life for poor and hungry person of our nation. And what a smart work? Each and every child in this country who goes to school, studies MT’s chapter in text book and start believing in her, and thus in missionaries.



They the men from missions actually come to India to convert the people here. And by doing this, ultimately they start dictating everything. In Kerala the Church dictates voters prior to election time openly.



The problem with MT’s charity work was that, conversion activity was involved under the wrapper. The other point is that her activities were over hyped, and purposefully marketed.



While religious conversion is legal in this nation, and hyping somebody’s charity is also legal, our problem should be that, the government jumps in this band wagon as an instrument, an agent and also as catalyst.



The latest is Mother Express initiative of central government. A whole train with moving exhibition about MT is being run by central Railway ministry.



Who pays for it? A tax payer.



Who visit it? Children and teachers of Christian missionary operated schools, newly convert or those in pipeline of conversion process, and ofcourse many other curious visitors.



Incidentally, the Mother Express entered in Gujarat exactly on the birth anniversary day of Shri Thakkarbapa.



Thakkarbapa was Gandhian social worker who devoted his life to tribal upliftment in remote corners of Gujarat. The service that Thakkarbapa offered to tribal people of Gujarat was amazing. Thakkarbapa never liked the motives of Christian Missionary ‘Muktifauj’, but Bapa didn’t attack ‘Muktifauj’ in Bajrang Dal style. Instead he started serving the tribals in far flung areas by establishing ashrams and schools there. Even today, wherever Thakkarbapa’s ashram are functioning, the missionaries are not there.



And like Thakkarbapa, there are many other who worked for upliftment and betterment of lives of poor people of this country. Even if I look around me just randomly, there are names like Jalaram bapa or Mekran dada who deserve ‘Bapa express’ and ‘Dada express’. It is our failure that we don’t promote these and many other selfless workers nationwide, against planted, funded, hyped and government supported promotions of MT.



One of the tendencies we the people posses is that we are impressed by everything that comes from abroad. Perhaps because we were ruled for about two centuries by whites. Our Yog was very much in existence, but when the western world started recognizing it by saying ‘Yoga’, we too started respecting ‘Yog’ as ‘Yoga’. We are impressed with MT as she got Nobel prize, but who knows whether that too was a global plan of influencing the people here, with prize as tool?



Why can’t there be a nationwide express train with moving museum on Aadi Shankaracharya?



Suppose if we demand such train, the ministry would definitely refuse it by saying that – India is secular country.



Interestingly, if we question why govt is operating Mother Express, or providing Haj subsidy, the government would give same answer that – India is secular country!



While figures of expenses behind Mother Express are not available at this time, the cost borne by the Government for Haj in 2007, 2008 and 2009 was approximately Rs.476.75 crore, Rs.894.77crore and Rs.689.91crore respectively. Now this is official figure taken from parliament records.



We don’t know whether central Railway minister Mamta Banerjee started this Mother Express to please Sonia Gandhi or not. Mamta has asked centre to release new coin projecting MT. We can’s understand that if MT was active in Bengal, and that thing excites Mamta as she is also from same state, then why didn’t Mamta demand a new coin projecting Swami Vivekananda or Ramkrishna Paramahansa?



Lastly, in inaugural function of Mother express, the Railway Passenger Amenities Committee chairman Derek O’Brien, while sharing his attachment with Mother Teresa, said that Sonia Gandhi had sent him a message wishing Mother’s birth centenary programmes all success.



If you didn’t spot something interesting in last two lines given above, then read it again.

[Husky]

[color="#0000FF"]^^^ Dhu's post is important.[/color]

Mine, as usual, is not.





1.

Sorry I disagree on this business of "ought to know".

"Sorry", none of my concern.



If you were interested*, in your place, I'd ask the grandparents/parents/any relative a generation or two older, press them for details. Hindus don't always tell you everything about the religion, sometimes you may have to you ask them in order to remind them that you don't really know enough. (They might just go about assuming someone else would have already explained it to you or that you already understood it by ... osmosis or something.)



* If you don't know you can't pass it on. If you can't pass it on, come the Dark Ages how is your progeny going to take it back from The Appropriating? (How is this my problem? It's not. <- Which is also why - contrary to your very quaint but oh-so-wrong supposition elsewhere in your post - I don't care what you/etc do.)





2. [quote name='HareKrishna' date='03 December 2010 - 01:38 AM' timestamp='1291320059' post='109614']Husky,i have 2 questions

1.You claim that bindi has a religious value.But every hindu i ask say that bindi is only for beauty and have no religious role.[/quote]To question 1: it doesn't have "a" religious value. It is Hindu from the core outwards. And this is not a "claim", it's just a fact; a very well-known one - at least where I come from.

(Of course wearing it has other genuine benefits to Hindus - just like wearing veebooti etc has great benefits of its own. Rather like how Yoga also has additional beneficial effects. Pottu/bindi and other marks also have the convenient side-effect of being beauty marks.)



Clearly, I am not poised to tell you why the pottu/bindi is Hindu - if that's what you were fishing for.



And I'm going to give "every Hindu you ask" the benefit of the doubt by suspecting they don't want to tell you because they have worked out you won't understand. Besides, how is this your business? (It's not.)

Husky,i have 2 questions

[...]

2. <blablabla "monotheism" blablabla "monotheism" blablabla>

Romani/Honsol/"HareKrishna" - and whatever other aliases you keep reappearing under on this site,



I'm going to say this as politely as I can - for the second time in recent memory (and I advise you not to try this again):



Will you stop trying to dialogue with me?

- Enough with the invitations to dialogue on silly topics that interest only you and have nothing to do with anyone I know, and are most definitely entirely irrelevant to me.

- And I don't want your PMs "to please contribute" on some thread I've never heard of and will never look at. (I'm guessing you would have spammed others with the plea too and didn't just single me out. You're far more likely to have whatever amount of luck with them.)



Still don't know (but don't care) what you are doing on this forum, such as why you keep insistently reappearing here under new handles and why you are frequently/usually/always(?) into the same drab, alien, christo-conditioning topics. Surely your native Romania is a very interesting country - with problems and prospects of its own for you to solve and discuss and explore? Your compatriots will doubtless appreciate your contributions.



Why is it so very important to you to come all the way down here to keep lecturing Hindus what their religion is supposedly "really" about*, when - I presume - no one here but you thinks you know what you're talking about?

(* Doniger and other such persons - being the very last people who would know - are more popular for that tendency.)



Maybe I'm wrong, maybe others are interested. I'm simply not one of them. Not that it can bother: there's a potential audience of 6 billion or so, so you can't notice my truancy. Though to get more of them to listen in on your radio show (this isn't the best place to do Outreach ya know), you would really need to go to a more visible website or something.

[HareKrishna]

Ok ok,i don't intend to ''bother'' you again(such sensitive guy,jezas).I simply could not stay and see you post untrue things about religions from India.I did it because my love for the truth(even if sometimes hurt).Second ,you did intervene,uninvited,quite a lot in my previous affirmations about one thing or another.You couldn't resist it.And now when you have my blessing to contradict me ,is you that pretend to be upset.So close your eyes,cover your ears to the things that you dont like hearing,that could put in danger your preconceptions.

Look,even if i dont agree whit you,thats not mean that you dont have the right to spread your ideas on to others as you do now.I never request you to stop posting as you seem to request me,because i dont like your ideas or find them silly.I dont lecturing hindus(i could say same thing about you),i dont care if no nobody going to read(except the ones who could be interested,they could be zero or a million).

So i let you to lecture hindus about how evil buddhism is,and enjoy how perfect you are as a culture(no monotheism,no manu code ,no caste system ,no Raja Raja the warrior,no sati,no evil secularism).Sorry that my views dont fit in your agenda.If my love for searching the truth seem christo-conditioning to you(searching the truth being exactly the opposite of the christo blind faith) then im so sorry.

Adios,bye,that the last time we meet.

[HareKrishna]

[quote name='Husky' date='03 December 2010 - 08:09 PM' timestamp='1291386663' post='109638']





Maybe I'm wrong, maybe others are interested. I'm simply not one of them. Not that it can bother: there's a potential audience of 6 billion or so, so you can't notice my truancy. Though to get more of them to listen in on your radio show (this isn't the best place to do Outreach ya know), you would really need to go to a more visible website or something.

[/quote]

Oh, but i do have a website,in fact more then one.Dont think that i activate in only one place.My tentacles are far and wide. <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Bharatvarsh2]

My Book & the US State Dept's Revision of its Assessment of the Kandhamal Crisis

by Brannon Parker



In 2008 I went to Orissa, India to investigate the Kandhamal Violence. I wrote a 450 page report entitled 'Orissa in the Crossfire’. It provides many vital details related to the Hindu-Christian violence that has frequently swept Orissa's Kandhamal district.



Many have familiarized themselves with the propaganda that has fictionalized the events surrounding the Kandhamal crisis as yet another case of Hindu extremist anti-Christian violence. My report, revealing the true foundations of the crisis, was presented to the US State Dept by RSS National Executive member Ram Madhavji.



In agreement with my conclusions the US State Dept's 2009 Report on International Religious Freedom states, "...the underlying causes that led to the violence have complex ethnic, economic, religious, and political roots related to land ownership and government-reserved employment and educational benefits."



This was a clear revision of the US State Dept's previous assessment of the Kandhamal Violence. However to this day various media outlets and others continue to parrot the myth of extremist Hindus and the hapless Christians of Kandhamal. Despite the media's perpetuation of the myths surrounding Kandhamal, to this day, not one of these media outlets has updated the story nor reported on the US State Dept's revised assessment.



This myth is still being used as a great fundraising tool by some unscrupulous church groups and as a weapon to tarnish the efforts of India's indigenous Hindu activists. I urge anyone interested in the truth regarding Kandhamal and the overall situation related to India's so-called 'Hindu Nationalists' to download this book. Its free and it will free the honest seeker from the campaign of calumny currently raging against India and its native cultures.



free download

http://www.lulu.com/product/file-downloa...g/13626377

[Husky]

^^^ BV's post on Brannon Parker's Book on Kandhamal and the subsequent "US State Dept's Revision of its Assessment of the Kandhamal Crisis"

(Note: the book is [color="#FF0000"]33 Mb[/color].)





Ugh. A scene. #396 demands correction -



Meanwhile,

- here is what I *actually* posted on Sati. (<- By the way: though I approve most of it, that post is not my own stuff. Meaning: it's a useful read)

- and here is what I actually wrote on Buddhism

- and here’s what I actually wrote on any Raja Raja: i.e. nothing ever. (And am unlikely to have written much on Manu smriti either - if anything at all, IIRC.)

- Etc etc.



^ Just to contrast with all the impossible (i.e. false) allegations in #396, even as that post makes a claim/dash for 'pursuing Truth'.

[Guest]

[quote name='acharya' date='02 December 2010 - 04:57 PM' timestamp='1291326548' post='109623']

Indian culture passes the traditions. It also passes the knowledge. This is preserved in the education from the past.



If the education is tampered then there is problem of transmition

[/quote]

I totally agree; where I differ is this "ought to know" business and climbing on Ivory Pedestals. Sadly, our society has plenty of such people.