Khap Gotra issues

[dhu]

[quote name='G.Subramaniam' date='16 January 2012 - 06:06 AM' timestamp='1326673690' post='114220']

Australian aborigines mated with Denisovans , diverged 1 million years ago

And African negros mated with relict populations of Homo-Erectus ( diverged 1.7 mil years ago )

In both cases the hybridisation happened 40k years ago

[/quote]



The so-called Denisovan line have turned out to be more likely Asiatic Homo erectus.

The Denisovan theory was propagated by Reich as part of his Northern route package.

Of course it will continue to be called Denisovan and all will continue as usual.

[G.Subramaniam]

[quote name='dhu' date='20 January 2012 - 08:41 PM' timestamp='1327071801' post='114259']

The so-called Denisovan line have turned out to be more likely Asiatic Homo erectus.

The Denisovan theory was propagated by Reich as part of his Northern route package.

Of course it will continue to be called Denisovan and all will continue as usual.

[/quote]



You are right, Denisovan is much more primitive than Neanderthal, per the tooth data.

They still havent yet found a Denisovan skull, and I suspect that the very late Homo erectus at Trinil of 50k years ago, will be Denisovan

[G.Subramaniam]

http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com...on-in.html



Has a new report on mating of Papua New Guineans with a 3 million year old ancestor



At 3 million years, it is likely to be Australapithecus since Homo erectus evolved only 1.5 million years ago

And Homo Habilis at 2 million years ago,



Perhaps they mated with the hobbit Homo-Floresiensis



And for the Jat Khapists, a 3 million year old Australopithecus or a 6 million year diverged Chimp or a 8 million year diverged Gorilla or a 12 million year diverged Orangutan, will guarantee no

inbreeding

[dhu]

The biggest problem regarding Indian genome diversity is actually the boxing into india proper by western-created monotheism. The Indic sphere used to extend up to the Caspian and Indians (Pakistanis) used to move freely within this sphere. Central Asia was actually the lebensraum of the Indians/Pakistanis/Iranians.

This Indic-Iranian zone abutted the steppe spread zone which was the conduit for dispersals to the periphery.

These dispersals were probably a type of genetic safety valve (?)

The Sindoi to the immediate west of the Black sea and the Maeotae to the immediate east actually took the reach right up to Europe itself. Any further in and they would have entered the refugial periphery and lost the connection.



Indic genetic diversity is actually a result of in situ diversification. While the low diversity to the west is a result of budding offs of a subset of the Indic diversity.

East Asia is similar to India and experienced a holocene expansion of NO projecting counterclockwise across Eurasia, very similar to the Indic P/R projecting northwards.

It is not entirely clear what factors allow for the continous generation of in situ diversity in tropical Asia, but the "hybridization" advocated by the herrenvolk is actually a euphemism for extreme loss of diversity - lamost always these are due to genocides. Any future Indic-E Asian expansion will create enough diversity that gotra issues will seem rather trivial. The entire western strategy is geared to stop such an eventuality.



There are two tricks which have surfaced to deny in situ diversification of Tropical Asia. One is that this diversity is actually due to admixture with other hominids (Hammers). Hammers is a compatriot of the imbecile Bamshad.

The other is Reich's approach regarding the northern Denisovan: indirect argumentation that Asiatoc diversity is due to multiple waves of populations intruding into Asia from the West.

So it is good to be on guard regarding these....

[G.Subramaniam]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...100_BC.png



This is a map of Scythians ranging from Ukraine to North India



Many of the Jat sikhs are repeatedly claiming Scythian origins and non-Indic origins



Actual DNA analysis will only show Indic roots

[dhu]

An aside on the Scythians:



Hesychius' gloss for the Pontic Sindoi was "Sindoi ethnos Indikon".

The Greek writers actually contrasted the Scythians to the more agricultural Sindoi.

So we have definite evidence for the mobile counterparts of both the Iranian and Indics spreading to the West.

What is interesting is that the Indic and Iranian presence above the black sea mirrors that of the Mitanni/Kassites and Iranians (including Armenians) below the Black Sea: so these groups were effectively performing a pincer movement and that too without any sense of ideological or ethnic unity.

The Northern and southern trajectories westward meet in C Asia/Sindh.

The Maeotae understood in minute detail the geography of the area and they even glossed the Sea of Azov as the Mother of the Dark Sea: so they were in intimate possession of the area.



Iranians have their refugial remnants in Europe in the Hrvat. It is also likely that the Sindoi had their refugial component which merged with the Iranians, as happened with the Mittani to Kurd transition. The forest refugia also probably contains their remnant.

[G.Subramaniam]

We all have 2 parents, 4 grandparents, a doubling of ancestors for every generation of 25 years



8 generations = 200 years = 256 ancestors

16 generations = 400 years = 65536 ancestors

24 generations = 800 years = 16 million ancestors



And it grows exponentially



Given that each caste is no more than 1 million, and historically more like 65k, it is likely that all including khapists are

breeding within 16th cousin levels with multiple crossings, giving an effective 4th or 5th cousin distance

[G.Subramaniam]

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/...ated-bjork



According to Stefánsson, Iceland is one of the world's most genetically homogenous nations. To put it bluntly, Icelanders — because there are so few of them — are more likely to have children with somebody that they are related to.



Contrary to popular belief, this is good news for fertility rates, says Stefánsson.



It turns out that fertility works best when couples are sufficiently related to each other because their genes are more compatible. A study published three years ago by Decode in Science Magazine reported “significant positive association between kinship and fertility, with the greatest reproductive success observed for couples related at the level of third or fourth cousins.”





--



IMHO, with SIB marrying at roughly 2nd cousin and NIB at 7th cousin, SIB are a lot closer to the sweet spot of 3rd cousin, which might explain the higher IQ



Iceland has 300K people, roughly the size of a caste biradari marraige pool

[G.Subramaniam]

Periodically, every 3 generations, every sub-caste needs to get in fresh blood.



As long as you are in the same sub-caste, genes do get concentrated, even if you try to avoid it

[simplyrohit21]

Subramaniam-ji,



Recently came across the below entry on Hindu marriages; can't be taken as final word but find it informative nonetheless. Wanted to know what is your opinion on it-



http://kalchiron.blogspot.com/2012/04/br...age-1.html

[G.Subramaniam]

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2013/11/...385676202/



Study suggests inbreeding shaped course of early human evolution



Nov. 28, 2013 at 5:03 PM | 0 comments





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CAMBRIDGE, Mass., Nov. 28 (UPI) -- Humans lived for thousands of years in small, isolated populations and resulting inbreeding shaped the course of human evolution, a U.S. researcher says.

Research suggests the severe inbreeding may have created many health problems and the small populations were likely a barrier to the development of complex culture and technologies, NewScientist.com reported Thursday.



David Reich of Harvard Medical School in Boston -- who has sequenced the genome of Neanderthals and that of another extinct human, the Denisovans -- said both species were severely inbred due to small populations.



"Archaic populations had low genetic diversity, really extraordinarily low," he said. "It's among the lowest diversity of any organism in the animal kingdom."



The DNA of one Neanderthal, obtained from a toe bone, had almost no diversity in about one-eighth of the genome -- both copies of each gene were identical.



That suggests the individual's parents were half-siblings, Reich said.



That's common in small populations, said Chris Stringer of the Natural History Museum in London.



"In the distant past, human populations were probably only in the thousands or at best tens of thousands, and lived locally, exchanging mates only with their nearest neighbors," Stringer said.



A previous study has suggested Earth's total human population 1.2 million years ago was just 18,500, spread over a wide area of the globe.







Read more: http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2013/11/...z2m4wnGV5I

[G.Subramaniam]

More idiocy from the Khaps



Times of India



CHANDIGARH/HISAR: Hijras (eunuchs) are born when couples from the same gotra get married. This shocking statement came from some angry khap leaders when a scientist tried to tell them that gotras and blood relation were two different things and all members of a gotra cannot be brothers and sisters.



The outburst came on Tuesday during a one-of-a-kind workshop funded by Union ministry of women and child development at Chaudhary Charan Singh Haryana Agricultural University in Hisar to invite measures to stop honour killings in khapland.



Retired senior plant breeder of the university, Dr Mahavir Singh Narwal told leaders from a dozen-odd khaps, "How can two lakh members of a gotra be brothers and sisters? Only those born to the same parents can be called siblings. It is not necessary that there would be adverse impact of same gotra marriages."



On this khap leaders stood up and protested. Senior khap leader, Kuldeep Singh Dhanda went on stage and said, "If same gotra marriages have no impact why are hijras born? Why do we have genetic diseases?"



He even claimed that 90% of eunuchs are born in those communities or religions which don't believe in the gotra system. He also named minority communities and suggested that their numbers were dwindling because of marriages between people who have close blood relations.



"We have done informal surveys which have revealed that side-effects are visible in such communities," Dhanda said. "In fact, maximum sportspersons come from those areas which believe in the gotra system."



Targeting Narwal, Pratap Singh Dahiya of Dahiya khap said, "This scientist has done experiments on trees, but human body is different."



Vice-chancellor of the university, KS Khokar, said, "I have witnessed khap leaders taking decisions since my childhood. I have seen that khaps always take right decisions for the welfare of Haryana."