Age of the Indian Renaissance - Kevat Shah
"Renaissance" was a word used to describe the scientific, artistic and cultural revolution which changed Europe from 14th to 17th centuries. Similar changes have been seen in numerous civilizations before and after. The most striking of these other Renaissances were the Age of Renaissance in Athens during the time of Socrates and Plato, as well as the Age of the American Renaissance, which began in the 17th century and still seems to be continuing today.
During these Renaissances, many new ideologies were introduced. These ideologies changed the way people thought and acted. For example, after the death of Socrates, people of Athens became less afraid to think independently, as evident from the writings of Plato. Likewise, in 14th century Europe, thinkers like Leonardo Da Vinci and Michealangelo challenged the popular belief system through novel innovations and artistic ideas. This allowed men like Gallileo, Newton and Copernicus to believe in what they thought was true. The same can be said about the Founding Fathers of America, the men who lead the American Renaissance. Benjamin Franklin refused to believe the widely accepted "facts" about lightning, allowing him to understand electricity. Therefore, we can safely assume that "thinking outside the box" and believing in your own ideas are an integral part of being a "Renaissance Man".
Another interesting fact to note is that all the Ages of Renaissance were preceded by a long dark age. In ancient Athens, a long war with Sparta preceded the coming of Socrates. The European Renaissance was also preceded by the "Dark Ages" full of war, famine and the black plague (10th - 13th centuries). The American Renassiance was preceded by 200 years of colonization of a wild land, as well as wars with the England, Spain and France and Native Americans. While the years preceding the Renaissance seem to be full of misery and seem to lack of stability, the years at the beginning of each Renaissance seem to be peaceful when compared to the years preceding them. In Athens, war against Sparta had come to a standstill and a period of peace had begun. In 14th century Europe, nations had begun unifying themselves as feudalism came to an end, ushering in an era of relative peace. In 17th century America, Americans had finally organized themselves into a nation allowing them to fight all other forces against them, which again, led to an era of relative peace.
Therefore, it follows that there are 2 things neccesary for an Age of Renaissance to begin. First, there need to independent thinkers not afraid to speak their mind. Second, and Age of Renaissance is almost always an era of peace preceded by an age of darkness.
For the last 1000 years, India has been torn by war. Of these, the last 400 years under Mughal and British Empires have been the darkest days India has seen. However, since gaining independence, India has become a relatively safer and more peaceful place. There is a movement in India towards education. Having a good education is considered the most important thing needed for success. As more and more Indians become educated, there will be more Indians, such as myself, who are not afraid to think of novel ideas or to speak their mind.
An age of darkness followed by an age of enlightement, along with the presence of independent fearless thinkers is what defines a Renaissance. According to that definition, a new age is just beginning in the history of India: The Age of the Indian Renaissance.
- Kevat Shah
There is no such thing as an Indian renaissance until such times
a census shows a rising % of hindus and a falling % of muslims and xtians
Its not a "Hindu" Renaissance Mr. Subramaniam, but an "Indian" Renaissance.
If someone is a Hindu but a separatist, he is against us regardless of the fact that he is Hindu.
If someone is a Muslim/Christian but a patriotic Indian, he is with us regardless of his religion.
It is no longer about a religion, but about a nation. (Yes, I'm a devout Hindu saying this, but only because its good for the Indian nation).
[quote name='G.Subramaniam' date='17 December 2009 - 08:19 PM' timestamp='1261060908' post='103008']
There is no such thing as an Indian renaissance until such times
a census shows a rising % of hindus and a falling % of muslims and xtians
[/quote]
Sir, if after 1573 posts this is your idea of a Renaissance then I must wonder.........
I am an accountant. Worked my 10+ years (in 10+ companies) in Indian businesses run every single time by a Non-Xtian and Non-Muslim businessmen/boards. Every single time these holy non-muslims and non-Xtians were Tax thieves, wriggled there way out of uneasy contracts that they themselves entered into and oftentimes were just as holier then Non-muslims and Non-Xtians as a Non-muslim or Non-Xtian can be. To my admittedly limited understanding, these constitute desh droh. I am sure such desh droh is committed by Muslim and Xtian businessmen also. I again, admittedly find all these guys in the same boat. I dont think people of this boat will ever be able to bring about any Renaissance (hindu, indian....whatever).
On the other hand there are tax-chors who have given back more then what they took. This boat again carries both Hindus and Muslims and Xtians. I feel it my bounden duty to help them whatever limited way my admittedly limited mind can allow me to.
Pls do excuse such acerbity. Comments are an equal-equal deal one-ly. You see sir, the world is grey and Indians resolved the puzzle of greyness a good 10000 years back (them called it Vivek) and I have no intention of letting the fight between a perceived black and a perceived white take my beloved hindu greyness from me.
Doesn't mean that all Hindus are wonderful, corruption is an unrelated issue.
Abrahamic fascists have no respect for other religions other than their own. It is them who introduced the concept of holy war. Look at the sectarian fighting within Christianity and Islam, is that the wonderful culture than needs to be imported? Who is heck is this middle eastern war monger threatening me with hell?
Muslims get their percentage high enough, India will become like Pakistan, where Islamo terrorists are blowing up even Mosques.
Christo terrorists are waging a terror war in North east India now spreading to Orrisa & central India.
The spineless pseudo secular Congress losers delibrately prevented the industrialization of India for 4 decades. That kind of weakling culture should not be followed, it has resulted in a steady rise in the Muslim percentage.
[quote name='ravinder' date='24 December 2009 - 11:30 AM' timestamp='1261633929' post='103114']
Sir, if after 1573 posts this is your idea of a Renaissance then I must wonder.........
I am an accountant. Worked my 10+ years (in 10+ companies) in Indian businesses run every single time by a Non-Xtian and Non-Muslim businessmen/boards. Every single time these holy non-muslims and non-Xtians were Tax thieves, wriggled there way out of uneasy contracts that they themselves entered into and oftentimes were just as holier then Non-muslims and Non-Xtians as a Non-muslim or Non-Xtian can be. To my admittedly limited understanding, these constitute desh droh. I am sure such desh droh is committed by Muslim and Xtian businessmen also. I again, admittedly find all these guys in the same boat. I dont think people of this boat will ever be able to bring about any Renaissance (hindu, indian....whatever).
On the other hand there are tax-chors who have given back more then what they took. This boat again carries both Hindus and Muslims and Xtians. I feel it my bounden duty to help them whatever limited way my admittedly limited mind can allow me to.
Pls do excuse such acerbity. Comments are an equal-equal deal one-ly. You see sir, the world is grey and Indians resolved the puzzle of greyness a good 10000 years back (them called it Vivek) and I have no intention of letting the fight between a perceived black and a perceived white take my beloved hindu greyness from me.
[/quote]
[quote name='agnivayu' date='25 December 2009 - 05:40 AM' timestamp='1261699339' post='103122']
corruption is an unrelated issue.[/quote]
Am afraid will have to differ here. I rather see corruption as only a part of the whole process of going down, a proecess that includes much more than just corruption. In fact trying to focus piecemeal on Kaam, Krodh, Lobh, Moh, Mad, Ghrina, Irshya, Dwesh and Bhaya, leaves me really confused and things begin to gel together when I see all these with respect to the others.
IOW, i do agree Generalia specialibus non derogant and Generalibus specialia derogant. But then this is a principle that find easy application in analytical thought. While I am a synthetic entity, and synthetic thinking is something i am partial towards (mehnati kam aur lalchi jyada hoon na).
[quote name='agnivayu' date='25 December 2009 - 05:40 AM' timestamp='1261699339' post='103122']
Abrahamic fascists have no respect for other religions other than their own. It is them who introduced the concept of holy war. Look at the sectarian fighting within Christianity and Islam, is that the wonderful culture than needs to be imported? Who is heck is this middle eastern war monger threatening me with hell?[/quote]
Import, hell no. The west (starting from the western borders of India) is so imbalanced, they can never be a solution.
But I am hopeful that you would find merit in my case which goes as follows:
(1) At one point in time or the other, every single religious group and every single follower of every single religious group, has faced this situation - a situation where a misplaced sense of superiority is replaced by a sense of despondency just as soon as the actual results of the actions (rather reactions) taken are nowhere near the expectations.
(2) Also none of these religious groups and none of the followers of these religious groups, have been successful in destroying the chances of a willing man or a willing nation. These Abrahmic nations are no different (Middle East vintage 2009 is a replica of WW-2 era Europe)
(3) I donââ¬â¢t mean to kill/attanuate your concerns (in fact i share them with you). But then we should avoid giving so much mindspace to these issues in the present w.r.t. the Abrahmic cultures. This IMO should be so for people in general and Indians in particular, because of our stronger heritage and the need to focus on much, much larger issues. My desire to allocate lesser mindspace to the Wild wild west has nothing to do with the pseudo secular logic of fear of the unknown.
[quote name='agnivayu' date='25 December 2009 - 05:40 AM' timestamp='1261699339' post='103122']
Muslims get their percentage high enough,[/quote]
(Only and only W.R.T. the arguments that begin like this and with all due respect), now you are making me laugh. You are giving in to fear of the unknown just as much the pseudo seculars, something that is matched only by the logic of the pseudo hindus. I just hope I am not dealing with a pseudo hindu.
Hmmââ¬Â¦..In the larger picture, if muslim invaders could not break India in 1300 years (I mean, ok they broke the state/states of India, but could do squat about the nation, and IMHO nation is a gazzlion^gazzlion times important than the state). Coupled with the very clear logic forwarded I think by the Mr. Naipaul, that these Islamic societies are actually the victims of Obscurantist in their own societies (a view to which I subscribe too).
My take is that you are probably overestimating the Jihadists and the White folk, and clearly underestimating Indians. People who cannot protect there own _ _ _, how will they ever succeed in doing anything.
OK even if in the smaller picture, your concern is restricted in scope to just the prevention of terrorist attacks, I would say that having to bear these terrorist attacks is the inherrent part of the building up of a state, nobody who wishes to build up a strong state can ever hope to slide the easy road. And to preempt, any possible spin, I am entirely in favour of sharpening the proactive measures to prevent and disrupt these attacks.
[quote name='agnivayu' date='25 December 2009 - 05:40 AM' timestamp='1261699339' post='103122']
India will become like Pakistan, where Islamo terrorists are blowing up even Mosques.
Christo terrorists are waging a terror war in North east India now spreading to Orrisa & central India.
The spineless pseudo secular Congress losers delibrately prevented the industrialization of India for 4 decades. That kind of weakling culture should not be followed, it has resulted in a steady rise in the Muslim percentage.
[/quote]
The only time India will end up like Pakistan of today or like the China of Mao or like the Europeans of Pre-WW2 years would be when, Indians begin to work on the same process in the same godforsaken kind of way. And even if one gets true the other never will. So basically no chance of India ever becoming Pakistan etc.
A lot of Hindus have grown too inwardlooking. A thousand cuts will do squat to this country (hmmm. Except when done all at once and that too when increased in some unpredictably exponential manner ââ¬â something that our competition is in no position to do). And this backfootplay is preventing the fours and sixes off the Abrahmic bowling attack. If we Indians keep focusing too much on what to avoid, we will never make time enough to progress in our choosen direction. A progress that is both urgent and important.
(Only and only W.R.T. the arguments that begin like this and with all due respect), now you are making me laugh. You are giving in to fear of the unknown just as much the pseudo seculars, something that is matched only by the logic of the pseudo hindus. I just hope I am not dealing with a pseudo hindu.
Ha. What's a pseudo Hindu? Hindu is anyone from the Indian subcontinent (or actually from the Sindu River area)
^^^
Ah, a simple matter of Sandhi and Sandhi-viched
The prefix pseudo- (from Greek ÃËõÃâ¦Ã´Ã®Ãâ "lying, false") is used to mark something as false, fraudulent, or pretending to be something it is not.
And as you agree, Hindu is anyone from the Indian subcontinent (or actually from the Sindu River area).
Thanks for the width allowed in your defination, honestly helps a lot, lot, lot.
01-01-2010, 07:35 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2010, 07:38 PM by agnivayu.)
So you are some kind of super loyal genius who can judge who is fit to be part of the team?
How do we know what team you are truly playing for.
So we are not allowed to speculate future scenarios. Even a mere suggestion of war/cultural scenarios means we are giving in to fear somehow. How are we supposed to strategize a war plan.
[quote name='ravinder' date='01 January 2010 - 11:49 AM' timestamp='1262326267' post='103246']
^^^
Ah, a simple matter of Sandhi and Sandhi-viched
The prefix pseudo- (from Greek ÃËõÃâ¦Ã´Ã®Ãâ "lying, false") is used to mark something as false, fraudulent, or pretending to be something it is not.
And as you agree, Hindu is anyone from the Indian subcontinent (or actually from the Sindu River area).
Thanks for the width allowed in your defination, honestly helps a lot, lot, lot.
[/quote]
Quote:Its not a "Hindu" Renaissance Mr. Subramaniam, but an "Indian" Renaissance.
If someone is a Hindu but a separatist, he is against us regardless of the fact that he is Hindu.
If someone is a Muslim/Christian but a patriotic Indian, he is with us regardless of his religion.
It is no longer about a religion, but about a nation. (Yes, I'm a devout Hindu saying this, but only because its good for the Indian nation).
This is hilarious & shows that most Hindus will never learn.
Ya Ketan we all know the biggest threat facing India are Hindu separatists <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' />
By the way Ketan it may shock you but the only reason India is a nation is because of the so called Hindu religion, that's what holds together Panjab and Tamilnadu not a 60 year old constitution that isn't very readable or understandable.
According to your kind of thinking it's all fine and dandy if India becomes a Muslim majority nation as long as it's politically united under this 60 year old flag and constitution. This was the same option the so called "patriotic" Muslim Abul Kalam Azad had in mind, he opposed partition because he thought that Muslims in time could rule all of India. After all what reason is there for Kashmir to separate if every other part of India from Panjab to Tamilnadu is made Muslim majority?
I am guessing your patriotic kind won't be too eager to show up from the US & live in this Akhand Mughalistan when push comes to shove.
This kind of thinking is absurd & the very antithesis of what our ancestors thought.
Go talk to any white white Frenchman & ask him if he will be very satisfied if the nation of France survives intact with its current territory but the whites themselves reduced to a minority and Arab+Berber+African Muslims the majority. Even the most liberal of them will oppose it and rightly so, france is just a piece of land it's the so called white French culture that makes it a nation.
Our ancestors put political unity far below cultural unity which is why the current Stalinist set up was opposed by Gandhi whatever his faults when it comes to Islam. He rightly stood for decentralization, village autonomy whereas the Indian constitution was written to suit centralization with Delhi dictating to the rest of Bharat.
You may want to read up on the ancient gaNas (republics) like the Yaudheyas to see how this system worked.
03-24-2010, 12:21 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2010, 01:09 PM by manish.)
[quote name='Bharatvarsh2' date='02 March 2010 - 09:45 PM' timestamp='1267546077' post='104711']
This is hilarious & shows that most Hindus will never learn.
Ya Ketan we all know the biggest threat facing India are Hindu separatists <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=' ' />
By the way Ketan it may shock you but the only reason India is a nation is because of the so called Hindu religion, that's what holds together Panjab and Tamilnadu not a 60 year old constitution that isn't very readable or understandable.
According to your kind of thinking it's all fine and dandy if India becomes a Muslim majority nation as long as it's politically united under this 60 year old flag and constitution. This was the same option the so called "patriotic" Muslim Abul Kalam Azad had in mind, he opposed partition because he thought that Muslims in time could rule all of India. After all what reason is there for Kashmir to separate if every other part of India from Panjab to Tamilnadu is made Muslim majority?
I am guessing your patriotic kind won't be too eager to show up from the US & live in this Akhand Mughalistan when push comes to shove.
This kind of thinking is absurd & the very antithesis of what our ancestors thought.
Go talk to any white white Frenchman & ask him if he will be very satisfied if the nation of France survives intact with its current territory but the whites themselves reduced to a minority and Arab+Berber+African Muslims the majority. Even the most liberal of them will oppose it and rightly so, france is just a piece of land it's the so called white French culture that makes it a nation.
Our ancestors put political unity far below cultural unity which is why the current Stalinist set up was opposed by Gandhi whatever his faults when it comes to Islam. He rightly stood for decentralization, village autonomy whereas the Indian constitution was written to suit centralization with Delhi dictating to the rest of Bharat.
You may want to read up on the ancient gaNas (republics) like the Yaudheyas to see how this system worked.
[/quote]
Very well said bharatvarsh2, could not have put it into better words myself. But kevat if not a muslim seems to be the perfect Dhimmi Hindu having been brainwashed as his masters wanted, he thinks that he is devout but is the coward Hindu that everybody sneers at and looks down upon.I wonder if he has ever heard of the BhagwatGita which shows the difference between Dharma and Adharma very clearly. This is the crux of the matter.As far as renaissance goes its coming and it has to be Akhand Bharat without the camel riders who would do well to emulate hussein and migrate to their beloved land before the Hindus are fully aware.
Also being a Punjabi Hindu I am more bothered if a single Tamil Hindu gets hurt rather than being bothered in anyway if 50-60 muslims in pakistan or U.P were to blow themselves up as this seems to be their normal way of living.
As for Ravinderji He seems to have safely assumed that the world is grey, I guess he does not understand that there is black and white too, this sort of intellectual grey has helped hindus to convince themselves to be slaves for 2000yrs. Ravinder Sir when it comes to the nation which is the motherland intellectual discussion dont work with barbarians and hindus who are traitors should be taken care of first this is reasonable commonsense and talks like yours only serve to distract from the main topic for wet dreams of greyness, feeling of intellectual superiority and getting a personnel high vis a vis barbarians. Intellectual talks of greyness works only with somebody with same level of vivek not with barbarians who will R**e, pillage, kill and loot only.
As far as I am concerned my definition of Hindu is very clear, it is anybody who believes in the vedas and extended family of hindus are the religions that took root here in my country like Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism etc., not barbarians who draw upon ideology of Arabia while living in this country.Minorities are like jews, parsies etc, not 15% barbarians.
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