This is actually an important post. Not the stuff I write (or quote myself having spammed), but the stuff I quote someone else saying about Sita Ram Goel, which are in blue.
This post is actually related to post 177 of this thread. (Also related to allusions in post 171 of the Sanatana Dharma thread. And post 87 of the 'Evil' Hindoo practices thread from which this directly follows.)
The supporting statements for some claims made in the following blockquote (from the 'Evil' Hindu practices thread) follow at the end of it.
Note: NSR stands for NS Rajarant, one of the 2 "successors" of Sita Ram Goel.
[quote name='Husky' date='12 April 2015 - 11:58 PM' timestamp='1428862827' post='117635']
If Sita-Ram Goel had been alive, I wonder if he'd have dumped NSR and held him up as an example of how English speaking should Not turn out. IIRC Ishwar Sharan said that Goel - to ascertain whether Sharan was genuine or not - asked Sharan's what he thought the Gods were and was specifically interested in how Sharan would answer. From memory, Sharan said he answered that the Gods were Divine Persons. I.e. implicit in Sharan's statement is that he thought the Gods are real, first and foremost. Sharan said Goel approved of the answer.
NSR and Elst would have totally failed that question. <- "Why is this important to note?"
Because it tells you how far NSR and Elst would be considered 'representative' of Goel and more importantly - whether (as per how SRG was back when he was alive, as one doesn't know what he'd be like if he were alive today/"would he have subverted too?" and become an Elstian etc) whether Goel would have distanced himself from both NSR and Elst.
It is a curious thing that both NSR and Elst revealed their tendencies only after SRG's passing, even as they use SRG as the foundation for their authority among Hindu readership. Having said that, they've now won fans over on their own right since, and I'm sure the same are just the very kind to prefer NSR and/or Elst over SRG. Good.
NSR and Elst totally hijacked Goel (and Swarup). No wonder "Hindu" vocalists are so witless. There's only worthless people trying to lead them in the 'intellectual' space - the malady goes far beyond NSR and Elst. When will "Hindu" nationalists acquire some taste? (Or is the Q: when will they be heathen and recognise issues closer to home/know where to draw the line?) Hindoos' predicament is so bad that India can't even produce the likes of Swarup and Goel in the visible/vocal intellectual space any more. That's just ... pathetic.[/quote]
The supporting statements:
They're Ishwar Sharan's own words about Sita Ram Goel, written a number of years back now, which I've merely copied and pasted here. But these writings are not public, so no point googling for it.
I've considered carefully, and have decided that Goel's private communication with Sharan - and Sharan's subsequent private communication of this - are more beneficial to HindOOs and more important vis-a-vis the kinds of "Hindu nationalists"/vocalists/would-be-intellectuals and their sycophants one sees today, than any gain that may be achieved by keeping the following private. Besides, I've paraphrased some parts already from memory.
Sita Ram Goel on the Gods - via Ishwar Sharan's recollections:
Swarup and Goel were the last Indian intellectuals writing in the English-language fighting against christoislam. Everyone else today at best just parrots snatches of their arguments in a highly diluted fashion, besides most of them being unheathens, and new-ageists and reconstructionists ("I've discovered temple kultur, now I'm an expert on temple kultur" whatever types).
Accidentally located something else. Here's a view of Ram Swarup which I think I'd also alluded to somewhere on IF. Also taken from Sharan's recollections:
Here's a repeat of a direct translation of Emperor Julian again:
Hindoos need to avoid getting lumped under one umbrella - the label "Hindu" - with India's "Hindu" agnostics and atheists (and the sudden dabblers who've reached their 'midlife crisis' stage and start pretending they are Hindu and thus invade Hindoo temples and spout new-ageisms).
Hindoos need to stop allowing unheathens to identify with them under any shared umbrella term/label.
When unheathens say "Hindu" they just mean Indian. Not heathenism.
But there is no relation between heathens and unheathens.
HindOOs are actually related to Taoist and Shinto traditionals (=heathens) etc. Not to unheathens of the same genetic background. While the latter don't presume to take on the same labels as Hindoos (or encroach on exclusively Hindoo matters like temple dubbed "architecture", Hindoo imagery dubbed "art" or redefined as allegories for physics, HindOO Gods and cosmological views, Bharatanatyam, Carnatic music, all things HindOO), they are not a threat - except, of course, when they start spouting inanities by daring to speak on and interpret heathenism despite being unheathens. But the latter's aggression in forcing themselves into the same category as HindOOs - thereby eclipsing HindOOs' existence as an independent collective with its own name - is another source of Certain Death to Hindoos. The Indian unheathens who also opportunistically call themselves Hindu become gangrene to Hindoos when they forcibly join Hindoos with their unrelated selves under an umbrella term, as if there's any relation. Hindoos ought to recognise it as an act of war, no less than christoislamic encroachment on Hindoo-dom. All the 'Hindu' unheathens do is use umbrella terms to hijack Hindoos (besides attempting to intermarry with heathens. Not sure why, the number of unheathens including unheathens calling themselves 'Hindu' in India is huge, and getting larger by the generation, so it's not like there aren't enough of their own kind.) Everyone wants to cannibalise on the 'polytheistic idolators' or turn heathenism into a new-age/re-interpreted/reconstructed travesty.
Hindoos should say NO to gangrene.
Request to all well-meaning Indians agnostics etc who may ever read this far:
Do Not suddenly decide you're going to re-invent yourself as a Hindoo ("polytheistic idolator", i.e. heathen) one day - a la the "temple kultur" entities (date of their fake u-turn/turn for new-ageism is very interesting, had not noticed before. I think I now know the impetus). There's NO VALID REASON for unheathens to choose to become 'heathens' all of a sudden, unless they have actually SEEN (directly interacted with) the Hindoo Gods. And that last is highly unlikely for 99.9 recurring percent of unheathens. And no other reason to go from agnosticism (or atheism for that matter) to dabbling in heathenism can be reconciled with a sane person clearly, and any such illegal move can only be ascribed to minds that have turned to mush or that such a move is owing to sentimentality (i.e. propensity to mental instability/random mental fluctuations).
Heathens don't want random fencehoppers=gangrene infiltrating heathen-dom.
Agnosticism and atheism are valid. They're not heathen, however, and should therefore not impose themselves on heathenism/heathen matters or create umbrella terms to encompass both (unless it be phrases like "unsaved kafirs" or "the free world" or "all sane people" etc). No other relationships exist.
And people who are so clearly Not heathen are Not welcome to one day decide they want to 'return' when they so obviously have no actual valid reasons to return to heathenism. Wanting to be a heathen is not enough. Need to Be one, consistently. If you were born to a heathen family, you are either a heathen for life or you walk out at some point. But no coming back - not allowed - with the stated exception of a Deus-Ex-Machina. In contrast, Ex-christoislamic reverts to Hindoo heathenism who have heathen tendencies and who apostasised on account of the same ARE heathens. It's very different, obviously. The former de-heathenised of their own choice (and therefore may not come back by choice), the latter were stuck in christoislamic families but had heathen tendencies (and hence may choose to revert).
And oh yeah, no roping Hindoo temples into the "Hindutva" (nationalism-as-replacement-religion) nonsense. HindOO temples are exclusively Hindoo heathenism. Not the Hindutva replacement theology, or rather replacement ideology. Meaning, they're off limits to unheathens (as also other aliens, who are no less unwelcome). As in: Get Lost from Hindoo temples.
The stuff in blue in this post is the important bit, and is something that's actually useful to know.
This post is actually related to post 177 of this thread. (Also related to allusions in post 171 of the Sanatana Dharma thread. And post 87 of the 'Evil' Hindoo practices thread from which this directly follows.)
The supporting statements for some claims made in the following blockquote (from the 'Evil' Hindu practices thread) follow at the end of it.
Note: NSR stands for NS Rajarant, one of the 2 "successors" of Sita Ram Goel.
[quote name='Husky' date='12 April 2015 - 11:58 PM' timestamp='1428862827' post='117635']
If Sita-Ram Goel had been alive, I wonder if he'd have dumped NSR and held him up as an example of how English speaking should Not turn out. IIRC Ishwar Sharan said that Goel - to ascertain whether Sharan was genuine or not - asked Sharan's what he thought the Gods were and was specifically interested in how Sharan would answer. From memory, Sharan said he answered that the Gods were Divine Persons. I.e. implicit in Sharan's statement is that he thought the Gods are real, first and foremost. Sharan said Goel approved of the answer.
NSR and Elst would have totally failed that question. <- "Why is this important to note?"
Because it tells you how far NSR and Elst would be considered 'representative' of Goel and more importantly - whether (as per how SRG was back when he was alive, as one doesn't know what he'd be like if he were alive today/"would he have subverted too?" and become an Elstian etc) whether Goel would have distanced himself from both NSR and Elst.
It is a curious thing that both NSR and Elst revealed their tendencies only after SRG's passing, even as they use SRG as the foundation for their authority among Hindu readership. Having said that, they've now won fans over on their own right since, and I'm sure the same are just the very kind to prefer NSR and/or Elst over SRG. Good.
NSR and Elst totally hijacked Goel (and Swarup). No wonder "Hindu" vocalists are so witless. There's only worthless people trying to lead them in the 'intellectual' space - the malady goes far beyond NSR and Elst. When will "Hindu" nationalists acquire some taste? (Or is the Q: when will they be heathen and recognise issues closer to home/know where to draw the line?) Hindoos' predicament is so bad that India can't even produce the likes of Swarup and Goel in the visible/vocal intellectual space any more. That's just ... pathetic.[/quote]
The supporting statements:
They're Ishwar Sharan's own words about Sita Ram Goel, written a number of years back now, which I've merely copied and pasted here. But these writings are not public, so no point googling for it.
I've considered carefully, and have decided that Goel's private communication with Sharan - and Sharan's subsequent private communication of this - are more beneficial to HindOOs and more important vis-a-vis the kinds of "Hindu nationalists"/vocalists/would-be-intellectuals and their sycophants one sees today, than any gain that may be achieved by keeping the following private. Besides, I've paraphrased some parts already from memory.
Sita Ram Goel on the Gods - via Ishwar Sharan's recollections:
Quote:Sita Ram Goel once asked me who the Gods were. I said they were divine beings with divine personalities. He was very pleased that I did not resort to academic dissembling (which I could not do not being an academic).
Quote:Sita Ram Goel was my dear friend and intellectual guide He had a super sharp intellect and spoke Hindi, Bengali, Sanskrit, Urdu, Persian, some Arabic, a little Greek and Latin. These kinds of Hindu brains can be fearsome and I was very curious to know if he believed that the Gods were real. Oh, yes, he said, they are real.(Removed additional line at end of the paragraph, since I'm not sure if that extra line was Sharan returning to his own views, or him still quoting Goel.)
Swarup and Goel were the last Indian intellectuals writing in the English-language fighting against christoislam. Everyone else today at best just parrots snatches of their arguments in a highly diluted fashion, besides most of them being unheathens, and new-ageists and reconstructionists ("I've discovered temple kultur, now I'm an expert on temple kultur" whatever types).
Accidentally located something else. Here's a view of Ram Swarup which I think I'd also alluded to somewhere on IF. Also taken from Sharan's recollections:
Quote:[Ram Swarup of Voice of India] was very sympathetic to the Old Religion of Europe and had a number of contacts among the neo-Pagans in Russia and Scandinavia. He was not entirely happy with persons like myself becoming Hindu because he felt we should be reviving Paganism.
He did not accept that Pagaism cannot be revived.
Here's a repeat of a direct translation of Emperor Julian again:
Quote:I feel awe of the Gods, I love, I revere, I venerate them, and in short have precisely the same feelings towards them as one would have towards kind masters or teachers or fathers or guardians or any beings of that sort.
Hindoos need to avoid getting lumped under one umbrella - the label "Hindu" - with India's "Hindu" agnostics and atheists (and the sudden dabblers who've reached their 'midlife crisis' stage and start pretending they are Hindu and thus invade Hindoo temples and spout new-ageisms).
Hindoos need to stop allowing unheathens to identify with them under any shared umbrella term/label.
When unheathens say "Hindu" they just mean Indian. Not heathenism.
But there is no relation between heathens and unheathens.
HindOOs are actually related to Taoist and Shinto traditionals (=heathens) etc. Not to unheathens of the same genetic background. While the latter don't presume to take on the same labels as Hindoos (or encroach on exclusively Hindoo matters like temple dubbed "architecture", Hindoo imagery dubbed "art" or redefined as allegories for physics, HindOO Gods and cosmological views, Bharatanatyam, Carnatic music, all things HindOO), they are not a threat - except, of course, when they start spouting inanities by daring to speak on and interpret heathenism despite being unheathens. But the latter's aggression in forcing themselves into the same category as HindOOs - thereby eclipsing HindOOs' existence as an independent collective with its own name - is another source of Certain Death to Hindoos. The Indian unheathens who also opportunistically call themselves Hindu become gangrene to Hindoos when they forcibly join Hindoos with their unrelated selves under an umbrella term, as if there's any relation. Hindoos ought to recognise it as an act of war, no less than christoislamic encroachment on Hindoo-dom. All the 'Hindu' unheathens do is use umbrella terms to hijack Hindoos (besides attempting to intermarry with heathens. Not sure why, the number of unheathens including unheathens calling themselves 'Hindu' in India is huge, and getting larger by the generation, so it's not like there aren't enough of their own kind.) Everyone wants to cannibalise on the 'polytheistic idolators' or turn heathenism into a new-age/re-interpreted/reconstructed travesty.
Hindoos should say NO to gangrene.
Request to all well-meaning Indians agnostics etc who may ever read this far:
Do Not suddenly decide you're going to re-invent yourself as a Hindoo ("polytheistic idolator", i.e. heathen) one day - a la the "temple kultur" entities (date of their fake u-turn/turn for new-ageism is very interesting, had not noticed before. I think I now know the impetus). There's NO VALID REASON for unheathens to choose to become 'heathens' all of a sudden, unless they have actually SEEN (directly interacted with) the Hindoo Gods. And that last is highly unlikely for 99.9 recurring percent of unheathens. And no other reason to go from agnosticism (or atheism for that matter) to dabbling in heathenism can be reconciled with a sane person clearly, and any such illegal move can only be ascribed to minds that have turned to mush or that such a move is owing to sentimentality (i.e. propensity to mental instability/random mental fluctuations).
Heathens don't want random fencehoppers=gangrene infiltrating heathen-dom.
Agnosticism and atheism are valid. They're not heathen, however, and should therefore not impose themselves on heathenism/heathen matters or create umbrella terms to encompass both (unless it be phrases like "unsaved kafirs" or "the free world" or "all sane people" etc). No other relationships exist.
And people who are so clearly Not heathen are Not welcome to one day decide they want to 'return' when they so obviously have no actual valid reasons to return to heathenism. Wanting to be a heathen is not enough. Need to Be one, consistently. If you were born to a heathen family, you are either a heathen for life or you walk out at some point. But no coming back - not allowed - with the stated exception of a Deus-Ex-Machina. In contrast, Ex-christoislamic reverts to Hindoo heathenism who have heathen tendencies and who apostasised on account of the same ARE heathens. It's very different, obviously. The former de-heathenised of their own choice (and therefore may not come back by choice), the latter were stuck in christoislamic families but had heathen tendencies (and hence may choose to revert).
And oh yeah, no roping Hindoo temples into the "Hindutva" (nationalism-as-replacement-religion) nonsense. HindOO temples are exclusively Hindoo heathenism. Not the Hindutva replacement theology, or rather replacement ideology. Meaning, they're off limits to unheathens (as also other aliens, who are no less unwelcome). As in: Get Lost from Hindoo temples.
The stuff in blue in this post is the important bit, and is something that's actually useful to know.