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The Cure For Terrorism Is Virat Brihad Hindutva
#1
[Three Part Series]

<span style='color:red'>The Cure for Terrorism is Virat Brihad Hindutva </span>

<b>Part I</b>

<i>Subramanian Swamy (Nov. 2008)</i>


What does the despicable terror and mayhem in Mumbai on November 26th signify for India? Shorn of the human tragedy, wanton destruction, and obnoxious audacity of the terrorists, it signifies a challenge to the identity of India from radical Islam. Cinema actor Shahrukh Khan may wax eloquent about the "true Islam" on TV, but it is clear that he and other such Muslims have not read any authoritative translations of the Koran, Sira and Hadith which three together constitute Islam as a theology, and which is a complete menu of intolerance of peoples of other faiths derisively labeled as kafirs. Hence instead of talking about the "correct interpretation" of Islam they ought instead be urging for a new Islamic theology consistent with democratic principles.

In 2003, two years after the 9/11 murderous and perfidious Islamic assault on USA, resulting in killing of more than 3000 persons within two hours, and which was perpetrated by leveraging the democratic freedoms in USA, the Saudi Arabian Embassy in the website of its Islamic Affairs Department [www.iad.org] laid down what a "good" Muslim is expected to do. Dr. Steven Stalinsky of the Middle East Media Research Institute [MEMRI] based in Washington DC accessed it and published it in issue No.23, of the Institute newsletter, dated November 26 [what irony!] 2003. I have to thank a NRI in US, Dr. Muthuswamy for this reference. In that site it is stated:

" The Muslims are required to raise the banner of Jihad in order to make the Word of Allah supreme in this world, to remove all forms of injustice and oppression, and to defend the Muslims. If Muslims do not take up the sword, the evil tyrants of this earth will be able to continue oppressing the weak and helpless"

Now who is more authoritative—Sharukh Khan or Saudi Arabia ? Obviously the latter.The above quote is what in substance is being taught in every madrassa in India, and can be traced back to the sayings of Prophet Mohammed. I can quote a plethora of verses from a Saudi Arabian translated Koran [e.g., verses 8:12, 8:60, and 33:26] which verses justify brutal violence against non-believers. If I delved into Sira and Hadith for more quotes, then I could risk generating much hatred, so it will suffice to say that Islam is not only a theology, but it spans a brutal political ideology which we have to combat sooner or later in realm of ideas.

Some may quote back at me verses from Manusmriti about brutality to women and scheduled castes. But as a Hindu I have the liberty to disown these verses [since it is a Smriti] and even to seek to re-write a new smriti as many, for example, Yajnavalkya have done to date. Reform and renaissance is thus inbuilt into Hinduism. But in Islam, the word of the Prophet is final. Sharukh Khan and other gloss artists cannot disown these verses, or say that they would re-write the offensive verses of the Koran. If they do, then they would have to run for their lives as Rushdie and Taslima have had to do. Leave alone re-writing, if anyone draws a cartoon of Prophet Mohammed, there will follow world-wide violent rioting. But if Hussein draws Durga in the most pornographic posture, the Hindus will only groan but not violently rampage.

We Hindus have a long recognized tradition of being religious liberals by nature. We have already proved it enough by welcoming to our country and nurturing Parsis, Jews, Syrian Christians, and Moplah Muslim Arabs who were persecuted elsewhere, when we were 100% Hindu country.

Moreover, despite a 1000 years of most savage brutalization of Hindus by Islamic invaders and self-demeaning brain washing by the Christians, even then, Hindus as a majority have adopted secularism as a creed. We have not asked for an apology and compensation for these atrocities. But the position of Hindus in this land of Bharatmata, where Muslims and Christians locally are in majority, in pockets---such as in Kashmir and Nagaland, or in small enclaves such as town panchayats of Tamil Nadu, is terrible and despicable. Even in Kerala where Hindus are 52% of the population, they have only 25% of all the prime jobs in the state, and are silently suffering their plight at the hands of 48% who vote as a vote bank. .

The 26/11Mumbai slaughter therefore should teach us Hindus that the time has come to wake up and stand up—it is now or never. If we do not stand up now to Islamic terrorism, then India will end up like Beirut, a permanent battlefield of international terrorists, buccaneers, pirates and missionaries.

What does it mean in the 21st century for Hindus to stand up ? I mean by that a mental clarity of the Hindus to defend themselves by effective deterrent retaliation, and also an intelligent co-option of other religious groups into the Hindu cultural continuum.

Mental clarity can only come if we are clear about the identity of the nation. What is India ? An ancient but continuing civilization or is it a geographical entity incorporated in 1947 by the Indian Independence Act of the British Parliament? What then does it means to say "I am an Indian" ? A mere passport holder of the Republic of India or a descendent of the great seers and visionaries of more than 10,000 years? Obviously our identity should be of a nation of an ancient and continuing Hindu civilization, legatees of great rishis and munis, and a highly sophisticated sanatana philosophy.

If Hindu culture is our defining identity then how can we co-opt non-Hindus, especially Muslims and Christians? By persuading them by saam, dhaan, bheda and dand that they acknowledge with pride the truth that their ancestors are Hindus. If they do, it means that they accept Hindu culture and enlightened mores. That is, change of religion does not mean change of culture. Then we should treat such Muslims and Christians as part of our Brihad Hindu family.

Noted author and editor M.J. Akbar calls this identity as of "Blood Brothers". It is an undeniable fact that Muslims and Christians in India are descendents of Hindus. In a recent article in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology, an analysis of genetic samples [DNA] show that Muslims in north India are overwhelmingly of the same DNA as Hindus proving that Muslims here are descendents of Hindus who had been converted to Islam, rather than repositories of foreign DNA deposited by waves of invaders.

Akbar thus asks rhetorically: "When have the Muslims of India gone wrong?" and answers: " When they have forgotten their Indian roots". How apt! Enlightened Muslims like Akbar therefore must rise to the occasion and challenge the reactionary religious fundamentalists. That is India is not Darul harab to be trifled with. In a conciliatory atmosphere the minorities would willingly accept this. It is also in their interest to accept this reality. Hindus must persuade by the time-honoured methods Muslims and Christians to accept this and its logical consequences.

This identity was not understood by us earlier because of the distorted outlook of Jawarharlal Nehru who occupied the Prime Minister's chair for seventeen formative years after 1947 and for narrow political ends, had fanned a separatist outlook in Muslims and Christians.

The failure to date, to resolve this Nehru-created crisis, has not only confused the majority but confounded the minorities as well in India. This confusion has deepened with winter migratory birds such as Amartya Sen descending on the campus of the India International Centre to preach inane taxonomies such as "multiple identities".

There has to be an overriding identity called national identity, and hence we should not be derailed by pedestrian concepts of multiple or sub-identities.

`````````Without a resolution of the identity crisis today, which requires an explicit clear answer to this question of who we are, the majority will never understand how to relate to the legacy of the nation and in turn to the minorities. Minorities would not understand how to adjust with the majority if this identity crisis is not resolved. In other words, the present dysfunctional perceptional mismatch in understanding who we are as a people, is behind most of the communal tension and inter-community distrust in the country.

`````In India, the majority is the conglomerate or Brihad Hindu community which represents about 81% of the total Indian population, while minorities are constituted by Muslims [13%] and Christians [3%]. Sikhs, Jains, Parsis, and some other microscopic religious groups, represent the remaining three percent. Though also considered minorities, but really are so close to the majority community in culture that they are considered as a part of Hindu society. Unlike Islam and Christianity, these minority religions were founded as dissenting theologies of Hinduism. Even Zoroaster can be traced to leader of Vahikas in Mahabharata who migrated to Persia. Kaikeyi in Ramayana was from Persia when that country was hundred percent Hindu. Thus these religions share the core concepts with Hindus such as re-incarnation, equality of all religions, and ability to meet God in this life. That they feel increasingly alienated from Hindu society nowadays is also the consequence of India's identity crisis caused by British historians and their Indian tutees in JNU.

The India of today would not have been in existence had the attempts to divide Hindus succeeded. In the 20th century, a sinister attempt to divide the Hindu community on caste basis was made in 1932 when the British imperialists offered the scheduled castes a separate electorate. But shrewdly understanding the conspiracy to divide India, Mahatma Gandhi by his fast unto death and Dr. Ambedkar by his visionary rejection of separate electorate, foiled the attempt by signing the Poona Pact.

But the possibility exists that such attempts at dividing India socially may be made again in the future, a possibility that cannot be ruled out. Indian patriots will have to watch against such attempts very carefully. Segmentation, fragmentation, and finally balkanization have been part of the historical process in many countries to destroy national identity and thereby cause the political division of the nation itself. Yugoslavia is a recent example of this, which has now been divided into four countries, largely due to Islamic separatism and Serbian over-reaction.

Virat Hindutva can be achieved in the first stage by Hindu consolidation, that is achieved by Hindus holding that they are Hindus first and last, by disowning primacy to their caste and regional loyalties. This would require a renaissance in thinking and outlook, that can be fostered only by patient advocacy and intellectual ferment.

For this we need a new History text, and a proper understanding of the distinction between the four varnas and jati [which is birth based and mostly for marriages]. Just as Valmiki and Vyasa are regarded as Maharshis despite being of different jati from Parasuram, hence Dr. Ambedkar should be called a Maharishi for his sheer depth of knowledge of Indian history. That he had become bitter because of Nehru systematically sidelining him is no reason not to do so.

India thus needs a Hindu renaissance today that incorporates modern principles, e.g., of the irrelevance of birth antecedents, fostering gender equality, ensuring equality before law, and accountability for all. It is also essential to integrate the entire Indian society on those principles, irrespective of religion. Uniform civil code for example, is something that the vast majority of Muslim women want, but because this demand has been usurped by those who deny the equality of nationality to the Muslims, hence comes the resistance to a eminently reasonable value. The Muslims think that this is the first step in several to subjugate them or wipe out their identity. But Muslims have quietly accepted Uniform Criminal Code [the IPC] despite that it contradicts the Sharia.

In other words, Hindutva has two components-- -one that Hindus can accept [such as caste abolition, eradication of dowry etc.] without any other religion's interests to consider. The other is the embracing by minorities of the core secular Indian values which have Hindu roots. This would require, particularly Muslims and Christians, to acknowledge that their ancestry is Hindu, and thus own the entire Hindu past as their own legacy, and to thus tailor their outlook on that basis. This would integrate Indian society and make the concept of an inclusive [Brihad] Hindutva and rooted in India's continuing civilization.

Thus, if India has to decide to have or not have good relations with Israel, Pakistan, Iran or US, it cannot be on the basis how it will impact on India's Muslims and Christians, but on what India's national interests require. If India has to dispatch troops to Afghanistan, Iraq, Sri Lanka or Nepal to combat terrorism, that policy too has to be decided on what is good for India, and not what any religious or linguistic group identifies as it's interest.

Thus such an Hindutva is positive in outlook, while raw Hindu xenophobia is negative and based on Hindu hegemony which will frighten all. Such an Hindutva will resolve our current energy-sapping identity crisis, which otherwise will completely emasculate India in the long run. The choice for the patriotic Indian is thus clear: We need a clear and positive view of our national identity based on our Hindu past and a Hindu renaissance to unite the Hindus with constructive mind-set as well as persuade the minorities to be co-opted culturally with Hindu society.

Once being Indian means virat brihad Hindutva, we can tackle terrorism by an effective strategy of defence. What are the components of that strategy is the subject matter of my next column here.

In other words, Hindutva has two components-- -one that Hindus can accept [such as caste abolition, eradication of dowry etc.] without any other religion's interests to consider. The other is the embracing by minorities of the core secular Indian values which have Hindu roots. This would require, particularly Muslims and Christians, to acknowledge that their ancestry is Hindu, and thus own the entire Hindu past as their own legacy, and to thus tailor their outlook on that basis. This would integrate Indian society and make the concept of an inclusive [Brihad] Hindutva and rooted in India's continuing civilization.

(contd.)
  Reply
#2
contd..

<b>Thus, if India has to decide to have or not to have good relations with Israel, Pakistan, Iran or US, it cannot be on the basis how it will impact on India’s Muslims and Christians, but on what India’s national interests require. If India has to dispatch troops to Afghanistan, Iraq, Sri Lanka or Nepal to combat terrorism, that policy too has to be decided on what is good for India, and not what any religious or linguistic group identifies as it’s interest.</b>

Thus such an Hindutva is positive in outlook, while raw Hindu xenophobia is negative and based on Hindu hegemony which will frighten all. Such a Hindutva will resolve our current energy-sapping identity crisis, which otherwise will completely emasculate India in the long run.
The choice for the patriotic Indian is thus clear: We need a clear and positive view of our national identity based on our Hindu past and a Hindu renaissance to unite the Hindus with constructive mind-set as well as persuade the minorities to be co-opted culturally with Hindu society.

Once being Indian means Virat Brihad Hindutva, we can tackle terrorism by an effective strategy of defence. What are the components of that strategy is the subject matter of my next column here.

(contd.)
  Reply
#3
<!--QuoteBegin-Savithri+Dec 24 2008, 04:03 PM-->QUOTE(Savithri @ Dec 24 2008, 04:03 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->contd..

Thus, if India has to decide to have or not to have good relations with Israel, Pakistan, Iran or US, it cannot be on the basis how it will impact on India’s Muslims and Christians, but on what India’s national interests require. If India has to dispatch troops to Afghanistan, Iraq, Sri Lanka or Nepal to combat terrorism, that policy too has to be decided on what is good for India, and not what any religious or linguistic group identifies as it’s interest.[right][snapback]92173[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I am lost. What does this have to do with any Hindutva in particular? This is rather the normal behaviour for any truly secular country instead: that of not pandering to any religion (or other subcommunity).
<b>So a "Hindu" has to argue for <i>regular secularism</i> under the title "Hindutva"?</b> Is that what our side has been reduced to: for the nationalist side to have to <i>bargain</i> for the most basic conditions that are considered self-evident by the governments of every other democratic country? Does no one else find this ridiculous?

What about making demands for Hindus and Hindu Dharma, such as a Get Lost to missionaries? Where is this "Virat Brihad Hindutva" that the title promises?
  Reply
#4
..Husky, 2 more parts are coming. I posted this part a week ago in the Hindutva thread, and have been looking for 2 and 3 ever since. Given SS's positions on Hindutva, it is not likely that he will go psec on anything..
  Reply
#5
Shambu,
Never trust Subramanian Swamy. He is just creating space for himself. I had chat with him in 2003-04, he is just a good snake oil salesman.
His daughter is married to Muslim and they share same house in Delhi. <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  Reply
#6
At least he is making the right noises!! On you tube, SS speeches were very pro-Hindu. If he manages to convert a thousand psecs to Hindutva, even 50% HIndutva, that is good. His own daughter can be sacrificed. <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  Reply
#7
<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Dec 24 2008, 12:08 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Dec 24 2008, 12:08 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Shambu,
Never trust Subramanian Swamy. He is just creating space for himself. I had chat with him in 2003-04, he is just a good snake oil salesman.
His daughter is married to Muslim and they share same house in Delhi.  <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[right][snapback]92183[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with Mudy, that guy is a huge fraud.
  Reply
#8
<!--QuoteBegin-Shambhu+Dec 24 2008, 09:44 PM-->QUOTE(Shambhu @ Dec 24 2008, 09:44 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->At least he is making the right noises!! On you tube, SS speeches were very pro-Hindu. If he manages to convert a thousand psecs to Hindutva, even 50% HIndutva, that is good. His own daughter can be sacrificed.  <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[right][snapback]92184[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I agree till he toe right line, he is our guy. <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  Reply
#9
<!--QuoteBegin-Shambhu+Dec 24 2008, 09:44 PM-->QUOTE(Shambhu @ Dec 24 2008, 09:44 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->At least he is making the right noises!! On you tube, SS speeches were very pro-Hindu. If he manages to convert a thousand psecs to Hindutva, even 50% HIndutva, that is good. His own daughter can be sacrificed.  <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Use him, but don't trust him or make him powerful.

I even suspect that somebody is using Subramaniam Swamy to hijack Hindutva from regular Hindutva folks. In this forum, Savithri is subtly asking people to ditch BJP and join Subramaniam Swamy.
  Reply
#10
Yes, I never said trust SS..I personally dont trust anyone, and I get tired of writing long disclaimers.

Re this thread:
I had posted SS article in Hindutva thread some 8-10 days ago. Did not start a new thread on it. Shows taht I just view SS as another Hindutvavaadi, and not someone too special.

People who want to ditch BJP will come around. I dont worry about them...
  Reply
#11
<!--QuoteBegin-Shambhu+Dec 25 2008, 01:43 AM-->QUOTE(Shambhu @ Dec 25 2008, 01:43 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->People who want to ditch BJP will come around. I dont worry about them...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Problem is that that circle is very large, and 2009 general election is crucial for India.
  Reply
#12
<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Dec 24 2008, 09:38 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Dec 24 2008, 09:38 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Shambu,
Never trust Subramanian Swamy. He is just creating space for himself. I had chat with him in 2003-04, he is just a good snake oil salesman.
<b>His daughter is married to Muslim and they share same house in Delhi</b>.  <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[right][snapback]92183[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Mudyji,

Namaskaram. With great respect to you I have to humbly disagree with your imputation. Do you prohibit adults marrying men or women of their choice? Supposing if your own daughter does not listen to you and goes and marries a muslim or christian what do you do with her? Would you be like Advaniji and attend the wedding or would you publicly declare that she is a persona non grata? You will agree that this is a tough situation for every parent.

Dr.Swamy though a Brahmin by birth had himself married a Parsi lady because of mutual liking. So, has he lost his right to be a Hindu and speak for Hindus? Among the so many Indians, there are lots and lots of traitorous Hindus who sell their soul for nothing especially to Maino. Are they all greater than Dr.Swamy? So many Hindus wanted Ramasethu to be blown off the earth but it was Dr.Swamy who single handedly took its defense in the Supreme Court and has succeeded in preventing its destruction to the dismay of the DMK and the Congress. Is he yet inferior? All the Sankaracharyas in the country have blessed him in his valiant effort to save Ramasethu in their Srimukham which is given in the front of his book "Ramasethu". Dr.Swamy is kind of right hand man to Swami Dhayananda Saraswathi the convenor or Acharya Sabha. Do you think these great Sadhus should have shunned him because he married a parsi and his daughter married a Muslim?

In the last 1000 years since the invasion of Muslims and the colonization by the British Christians, there has happened a very large number of people crossing over to Islam and Christianity by force and fraud. They are still being manipulated to form vote banks, they are manipulated to fight Hindus and they are encouraged to go to Mecca and not Kasi. How are we going to treat them? As aliens or as ancient Hindus who have lost their track? Dr.Swamy is addressing this in his three part series and the same is being published by a pro BJP journal - the Organizer.

Dr. Swamy has clearly explained his position on the present fate and future prospects of the Hindus in greater detail in his famous book "<b>Hindus under Seige</b>".

Dr.Swamy for all that I know is a one man crusader very much focused on the dangers from the Maino's mafia and his drive to advance the Hindu cause has all the support from the Revered Sankaracharyas of the country and of the Acharya Sabha. What else do we need?

And I do support him for the simple fact he is a one man crusader than the organized political parties most of them have clearly betrayed the Hindu cause. He is greatly supported by Hindu outfits like VHP, RSS etc. He may have a past of mixed bag. That is not my concern now. In my opinion he is very serious in the defence of the Hindus. That is all that counts for me. To be crystal clear I do not believe that Hindu cause can best be advanced with the present constitutional set up of the country that only benefits anti-Hindu secularists.

Hope I can continue to advance a differing opinion for the Hindu cause. I have great respect for the members of this forum with whom I am very proud to share.
  Reply
#13
<!--QuoteBegin-shamu+Dec 25 2008, 01:56 AM-->QUOTE(shamu @ Dec 25 2008, 01:56 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Shambhu+Dec 25 2008, 01:43 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shambhu @ Dec 25 2008, 01:43 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->People who want to ditch BJP will come around. I dont worry about them...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Problem is that that circle is very large, and 2009 general election is crucial for India.
[right][snapback]92200[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I know, but if they really feel so disgusted with the BJP (which is only about 10-20% psec) that they are prepared to vote for a 100% psec/commie party, what can be done? One can only pray that practicality dawns on them before they enter the polling booth. I am sure it will. But pushing them on BJP will only make them more defensive.
  Reply
#14
<!--QuoteBegin-Savithri+Dec 25 2008, 03:40 AM-->QUOTE(Savithri @ Dec 25 2008, 03:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Dec 24 2008, 09:38 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mudy @ Dec 24 2008, 09:38 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Shambu,
Never trust Subramanian Swamy. He is just creating space for himself. I had chat with him in 2003-04, he is just a good snake oil salesman.
<b>His daughter is married to Muslim and they share same house in Delhi</b>.  <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[right][snapback]92183[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mudyji,

Namaskaram. With great respect to you I have to humbly disagree with your imputation. Do you prohibit adults marrying men or women of their choice? Supposing if your own daughter does not listen to you and goes and marries a muslim or christian what do you do with her? Would you be like Advaniji and attend the wedding or would you publicly declare that she is a persona non grata? You will agree that this is a tough situation for every parent.

Dr.Swamy though a Brahmin by birth had himself married a Parsi lady because of mutual liking. So, has he lost his right to be a Hindu and speak for Hindus? Among the so many Indians, there are lots and lots of traitorous Hindus who sell their soul for nothing especially to Maino. Are they all greater than Dr.Swamy? So many Hindus wanted Ramasethu to be blown off the earth but it was Dr.Swamy who single handedly took its defense in the Supreme Court and has succeeded in preventing its destruction to the dismay of the DMK and the Congress. Is he yet inferior? All the Sankaracharyas in the country have blessed him in his valiant effort to save Ramasethu in their Srimukham which is given in the front of his book "Ramasethu". Dr.Swamy is kind of right hand man to Swami Dhayananda Saraswathi the convenor or Acharya Sabha. Do you think these great Sadhus should have shunned him because he married a parsi and his daughter married a Muslim?[right][snapback]92203[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->While I am not Mudy who was addressed here, I wish to comment.

Are you really equating marriage to a Parsee with marriage to a muslim? <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo--> Because you imply equal treatment here:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you think these great Sadhus should have shunned him because he married a parsi and his daughter married a Muslim?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->For Hindus to shun those of their own who marry (christo)islamaniacs is not an unreasonable practise and is in fact an established one.

I don't know enough/much of Mazda Yasna personally, but I think I know sufficient in order to say that it is not a threat to us. But islam *is*, it being a terrorist meme.
(However, I don't know that it is wise for Hindus to marry Parsees, because I read that the Mazdean religion as practised by Parsees ostracises any of their own who marry out of their religion. Surely Hindus don't want to force others out of their Natural Traditions. Also, the Parsee in question must know they are quitting their religion if undertaking any such inter-marriage. And if they then still proceed with it anyway, it seems to indicate that they have a tendency to secularism rather than loyalty to their God(s), traditions and ancestors. I am therefore not sure their judgement shows a desirable character, though such a disloyal quality is certainly not respresentative of other Parsees: those who do not intermarry. And in Swamy's case, his psecularism coupled with that of his formerly Parsee wife has apparently produced a very psecular daughter.)

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you prohibit adults marrying men or women of their choice?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Be serious. No one is prohibiting anyone from doing any such thing. Nor does the law enable any 'prohibition' either.

But Swamy not only allowed the marriage of his daughter to an islamaniac, he is living with it, meaning he is still endorsing it. Why in the world would any Hindu take his stance on important Hindu issues (like christoislamiterrorism) seriously when he is living in amity with the enemy ideology? Where is the proof that he will defend Hindu Dharma against christoislamic terrorism (the twin terrorist memes) when he cannot even put his foot down in his own home and keep it free of the memetic disease?

He can stand for nothing. His comments on christoislamism can mean nothing, except where they reveal a psecular attitude. I am sure he will end up defending them when the opportunity arises. The following is certainly indicative of this:
<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Dec 25 2008, 08:28 AM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Dec 25 2008, 08:28 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Suhasini Haider, the daughter of Subramanian Swamy, and a hard core psec</b>, (married) with the son of Salman Haidar.[right][snapback]92212[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->His daughter is a "hard core psec", a term used for anti-Hindus.
If Swamy tolerates such characteristics in his own offspring (and has allowed "Suhasini" to grow up like that), then it says a lot about how far Hindus can trust him.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Would you be like Advaniji and attend the wedding or would you  publicly declare that she is a persona non grata?  You will agree that this is a tough situation for every parent.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->1. The girl should have grown a brain: learnt about other religions and the terrorisms for herself. She failed herself.
And if she will not help the Hindu community, at least she need not injure them by fraternising with terrorist ideologies bent on destroying Hindus.
2. Advani and wife should have raised her better: taught her about other religions and the terrorisms. They have neglected their duty.
3. Senseless behaviour should not be humoured. Just as each of us has the right and freedom to act out of personal foolishness - especially when we're "adults", as you brought up - we may then also be left to take personal responsibility for the consequences of such actions. (Or must everyone collectively keep paying for the actions of individuals? Why?) The parents should have left the daughter to herself upon her insistence to make the mistake. Instead they have let the terrorist meme into their midst which will poison everything else.

Psecularism is a great threat to Hindu Dharma; the meme is a <i>calculating</i> enemy. We simply cannot (blindly) trust leaders who are
a) obviously infected with it and/or
b) allowing it a place in their personal lives.
If such 'leaders' happen to help our cause - as Swamy does on occasion (for whatever personal reasons) like in the matter of RamarSethu - then, as Mudy says, we can go along with it <i>for as long as he is going our way</i>. But we owe him no loyalty. We owe Subramaniam Swamy nothing in fact - he is not really doing it for us, for Hindu Dharma or our Gods. When his path diverges from ours (and it will), we are under no obligation to follow him and, with any sense, we will not.
It is the <i>cause</i> in the Ramarsethu and other cases that is common to Swamy and the Hindu body. Nothing else.
  Reply
#15
<!--QuoteBegin-Savithri+Dec 24 2008, 05:10 PM-->QUOTE(Savithri @ Dec 24 2008, 05:10 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->

Dr. Swamy has clearly explained his position on the present fate and future prospects of the Hindus in greater detail in his famous book "<b>Hindus under Seige</b>".

<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have that book, it is a very easy read. He lays out several steps that Hindus can/should do. It seems to be a little hastily written one though. But what ever I remember of him was from his days during confrontation with JJ. He had come off little 'whacko' to me at that time. Then he became friends with JJ (or was it the other way around).
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#16
<!--QuoteBegin-Savithri+Dec 25 2008, 03:40 AM-->QUOTE(Savithri @ Dec 25 2008, 03:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->In the last 1000 years since the invasion of Muslims and the colonization by the British Christians, there has happened a very large number of people crossing over to Islam and Christianity by force and fraud. They are still being manipulated to form vote banks, they are manipulated to fight Hindus and they are encouraged to go to Mecca and not Kasi. How are we going to treat them? As aliens or as ancient Hindus who have lost their track? Dr.Swamy is addressing this in his three part series and the same is being published by a pro BJP journal - the Organizer.[right][snapback]92203[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->1. Christians and islamics are not Hindus.
2. Savithri: "they are manipulated to fight Hindus"
What comedy, such apologetics. It is their scary <i>religion</i> that compels the christoislamics to fight (terrorise) Hindus/Dharmics in India, just as it compels their ideological brethren in other countries to terrorise the indigenous traditions there.

And all this "if only we can make the christoislamiterrorists of India into nationalists ('christian Hindus' and 'muslim Hindus') then all our worries are over" is not a new tune. It has long been a song sung by many a Hindu nationalist before Swamy, to the benefit only of their own delusion and the detriment of the Dharmics of Bharatam.

And yet in all this time, there is one thing that christoislamism has repeatedly made clear: that it absolutely will not get along with Hindus, that it will destroy Hindu Dharma if it gets the chance. But meanwhile we still have to keep hearing the same old lullaby of "Hindus, the key to all this intolerance and terrorism is to make nationalists out of christoislamaniacs" sung to us.
And why are christians and muslims not being hit over the head with it instead (not that it has ever had any effect on them) - why are Hindus made to hear this <i>lie</i> all the time?

Any persons who keep repeating the insidious lie that we "need to get along with christoislamism" is (unwittingly?) trying to help destroy Dharmic traditions. It is <i>not</i> us who were ever unable to get along. It has always been christoislamism that has been intolerant, exclusivist and destructive of all else. It is now merely time that we realised this, faced it, accepted it and made our response and plans accordingly.
  Reply
#17
And one more thing.


<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Savithri: In the last 1000 years since the invasion of Muslims and the colonization by the British Christians, there has happened a very large number of people crossing over to Islam and Christianity by force and fraud. They are still being manipulated to form vote banks, they are manipulated to fight Hindus and they are encouraged to go to Mecca and not Kasi. <b>How are we going to treat them (christoislamics in India)?</b> As aliens or as ancient Hindus who have lost their track? Dr.Swamy is addressing this in his three part series and the same is being published by a pro BJP journal - the Organizer.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Such a psecular question. Such concern for the christoislamic.
But it is not our treatment of them that is a cause of any worry or concern - we have always treated them well, in spite of their behaviour. Rather, it is *christoislamism* which has demonstrably treated us abominably in our own country.
And yet the psecular always asks the touching question of what *Hindus* can do to better ourselves with respect to the constant terrorism. "How can we better facilitate the christoislamic genocide of our own kind?" is the rephrased version. Apparently our existence itself is the problem? Maybe we should just roll over and die? Is that the ultimate answer all these psecular questions keep tending toward: for us to keep giving up one right after another to further accommodate the christoislamaniac terrorism until the parasite has sucked the very life out of us to sustain itself?

If that is indeed going to be the topic addressed by Swamy in the remainder of his three part series (and his first was nothing impressive either in spite of the promising/deceptive title), then it seems like a waste of so much web space.


<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Savithri: "They are still being manipulated to form vote banks, they are manipulated to fight Hindus and <b>they (christoislamics in India) are encouraged to go to Mecca and not Kasi."</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->You know absolutely nothing about christoislamania for you to suggest that its sheepish ummah should consider Kashi as an alternative, or that they can even be dissuaded from going to Mecca (or church or masjid or resorting to jihad or conversionary/terrorist activity or to their babble/koran).

Why are people like Savithri trying to provide suggestions on how Hindus can cope with christoislamism, when they obviously do not even comprehend the ideology/threat that they're discussing in the first place?
  Reply
#18
Huskyji,

You and I have many things in common, we are anti-secular for secularism is anti-Hindu. You and I wish to uphold Hindu Dharma. Islam and Christianity are our hinderance in that endeavour.

What you and I <b>do not have in common</b> is a personal tirade against Dr.Subramanian Swamy. I respect a person for what he stands for and what he has done. I am not alone. The Sankaracharyas and the Acharya Sabha agree that Dr.Swamy is a good man and does a great job. Therefore, I do not wish to hang him for what his daughter has done or anyone else has done. He deserves to be judged for what he did and he deserves to be listened to for what he advocates. Please read his essay above again and see if there is something you can agree. If you see there is nothing worthwhile, it is your prerogative.

I have great respect for Advaniji and Vajpayeeji and many others of the BJP who have done a lot in defense of the Hindus. They also failed to do what they can when they were in power. History will be their judge.

I am interested in continuing the fight against secularism that will bring back the Dharmic rule which by itself will solve the problem of conversion and terrorism. This is not easily done by any battle for votes. It can even be a war of annihilation. I hope you and I can be partners in this ideal.

Regards,
  Reply
#19
<b>Out of the box </b>

<b><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>The Cure for Terrorism is Virat Brihad Hindutva</span> </b>(contd.)

<b>By Subramanian Swamy</b>
Organiser Weekly, Dec. 21

The India of today would not have been in existence had the attempts to divide Hindus succeeded.

In the 20th century, a sinister attempt to divide the Hindu community on caste basis was made in 1932 when the British imperialists offered the scheduled castes a separate electorate.

What does the despicable terror and mayhem in Mumbai on November 26 signify for India? Shorn of the human tragedy, wanton destruction, and obnoxious audacity of the terrorists, it signifies a challenge to the identity of India from radical Islam.

Cinema actor Shahrukh Khan may wax eloquent about the “true Islam” on TV, but it is clear that he and other such Muslims have not read any authoritative translations of the Koran, Sira and Hadith which three together constitute Islam as a theology, and which is a complete menu of intolerance of peoples of other faiths derisively labeled as kafirs. Hence, instead of talking about the “correct interpretation” of Islam they ought instead be urging for a new Islamic theology consistent with democratic principles.

In 2003, two years after the 9/11 murderous and perfidious Islamic assault on USA, resulting in killing of more than 3000 persons within two hours, and which was perpetrated by leveraging the democratic freedoms in USA, the Saudi Arabian Embassy in the website of its Islamic Affairs Department [www.iad.org] laid down what a “good” Muslim is expected to do.

Dr. Steven Stalinsky of the Middle East Media Research Institute[MEMRI] based in Washington DC accessed it and published it in issue No.23, of the Institute newsletter, dated November 26[what irony!] 2003. I have to thank a NRI in US, Dr. Muthuswamy for this reference. In that site it is stated:

“The Muslims are required to raise the banner of Jihad in order to make the Word of Allah supreme in this world, to remove all forms of injustice and oppression, and to defend the Muslims. If Muslims do not take up the sword, the evil tyrants of this earth will be able to continue oppressing the weak and helpless”

Now who is more authoritative— Sharukh Khan or Saudi Arabia ? Obviously the latter. The above quote is what in substance is being taught in every madrassa in India, and can be traced back to the sayings of Prophet Mohammed.

I can quote a plethora of verses from a Saudi Arabian translated Koran [e.g., verses 8:12, 8:60, and 33:26] which verses justify brutal violence against non-believers. If I delved into Sira and Hadith for more quotes, then I could risk generating much hatred, so it will suffice to say that Islam is not only a theology, but it spans a brutal political ideology which we have to combat sooner or later in realm of ideas.

Some may quote back at me verses from Manusmriti about brutality to women and scheduled castes. But as a Hindu I have the liberty to disown these verses [since it is a Smriti] and even to seek to re-write a new Smriti as many, for example, Yajnavalkya have done to date. Reform and renaissance is thus inbuilt into Hinduism.

But in Islam, the word of the Prophet is final. Sharukh Khan and other gloss artists cannot disown these verses, or say that they would re-write the offensive verses of the Koran. If they do, then they would have to run for their lives as Rushdie and Taslima have had to do.

Leave alone re-writing, if anyone draws a cartoon of Prophet Mohammed, there will follow world-wide violent rioting. But if Hussein draws Durga in the most pornographic posture, the Hindus will only groan but not violently rampage.

We Hindus have a long recognised tradition of being religious liberals by nature. We have already proved it enough by welcoming to our country and nurturing Parsis, Jews, Syrian Christians, and Moplah Muslim Arabs who were persecuted elsewhere, when we were 100 per cent Hindu country.

Moreover, despite a 1000 years of most savage brutalisation of Hindus by Islamic invaders and self-demeaning brain washing by the Christians, even then, Hindus as a majority have adopted secularism as a creed. We have not asked for an apology and compensation for these atrocities.

But the position of Hindus in this land of Bharatmata, where Muslims and Christians locally are in majority, in pockets—such as in Kashmir and Nagaland, or in small enclaves such as town panchayats of Tamil Nadu, is terrible and despicable. Even in Kerala where Hindus are 52 per cent of the population, they have only 25 per cent of all the prime jobs in the state, and are silently suffering their plight at the hands of 48 per cent who vote as a vote bank.

The 26/11 Mumbai slaughter therefore should teach us Hindus that the time has come to wake up and stand up—it is now or never. If we do not stand up now to Islamic terrorism, then India will end up like Beirut, a permanent battlefield of international terrorists, buccaneers, pirates and missionaries.

What does it mean in the 21st century for Hindus to stand up ? I mean by that a mental clarity of the Hindus to defend themselves by effective deterrent retaliation, and also an intelligent co-option of other religious groups into the Hindu cultural continuum.

Mental clarity can only come if we are clear about the identity of the nation. What is India? An ancient but continuing civilisation or is it a geographical entity incorporated in 1947 by the Indian Independence Act of the British Parliament ?

What then does it mean to say “I am an Indian”? A mere passport holder of the Republic of India or a descendent of the great seers and visionaries of more than 10,000 years ? Obviously our identity should be of a nation of an ancient and continuing Hindu civilisation, legatees of great rishis and munis, and a highly sophisticated sanatana philosophy.

If Hindu culture is our defining identity then how can we co-opt non-Hindus, especially Muslims and Christians ? By persuading them by saam, dhaam, bheda and dand that they acknowledge with pride the truth that their ancestors are Hindus. If they do, it means that they accept Hindu culture and enlightened mores. That is, change of religion does not mean change of culture. Then we should treat such Muslims and Christians as part of our Brihad Hindu family.

Noted author and editor M.J. Akbar calls this identity as of “Blood Brothers”. It is an undeniable fact that Muslims and Christians in India are descendents of Hindus. In a recent article in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology, an analysis of genetic samples [DNA] show that Muslims in north India are overwhelmingly of the same DNA as Hindus proving that Muslims here are descendents of Hindus who had been converted to Islam, rather repositories of foreign DNA deposited by waves of invaders.

Akbar thus asks rhetorically: “When have the Muslims of India gone wrong?” and answers: “When they have forgotten their Indian roots”. How apt !

Enlightened Muslims like Akbar therefore must rise to the occasion and challenge the reactionary religious fundamentalists. That is India is not Darul Harab to be trifled with.

In a conciliatory atmosphere the minorities would willingly accept this. It is also in their interest to accept this reality. Hindus must persuade by the time honoured methods Muslims and Christians to accept this and its logical consequences.

This identity was not understood by us earlier because of the distorted outlook of Jawaharlal Nehru who occupied the Prime Minister’s chair for seventeen formative years after 1947 and for narrow political ends, had fanned a separatist outlook in Muslims and Christians.

The failure to date, to resolve this Nehru created crisis, has not only confused the majority but confounded the minorities as well in India. This confusion has deepened with winter migratory birds such as Amartya Sen descending on the campus of the India International Centre to preach inane taxonomies such as “multiple identities”.

There has to be an over-riding identity called national identity, and hence we should not be derailed by pedestrian concepts of multiple or sub-identities.

“Without a resolution of the identity crisis today, which requires an explicit clear answer to this question of who we are, the majority will never understand how to relate to the legacy of the nation and in turn to the minorities.

Minorities would not understand how to adjust with the majority if this identity crisis is not resolved.

In other words, the present dysfunctional perceptional mismatch in understanding who we are as a people, is behind most of the communal tension and inter-community distrust in the country.

“In India, the majority is the conglomerate or Brihad Hindu community which represents about 81 per cent of the total Indian population, while minorities are constituted by Muslims [13 per cent] and Christians [3 per cent]. Sikhs, Jains, Parsis, and some other microscopic religious groups, represent the remaining three per cent.

Though also considered minorities, but really are so close to the majority community in culture that they are considered as a part of Hindu society. Unlike Islam and Christianity, these minority religions were founded as dissenting theologies of Hinduism. Even Zoroaster can be traced to leader of Vahikas in Mahabharata who migrated to Persia. Kaikeyi in Ramayana was from Persia when that country was hundred per cent Hindu. Thus these religions share the core concepts with Hindus such as re-incarnation, equality of all religions, and ability to meet God in this life.

That they feel increasingly alienated from Hindu society nowadays is also the consequence of India’s identity crisis caused by British historians and their Indian tutees in JNU.

The India of today would not have been in existence had the attempts to divide Hindus succeeded.

In the 20th century, a sinister attempt to divide the Hindu community on caste basis was made in 1932 when the British imperialists offered the scheduled castes a separate electorate. But shrewdly understanding the conspiracy to divide India, Mahatma Gandhi by his fast unto death and Dr. Ambedkar by his visionary rejection of separate electorate, foiled the attempt by signing the Poona Pact.

But the possibility that such attempts at dividing India socially may be made again in the future, a possibility that cannot be ruled out. Indian patriots will have to watch such attempts very carefully.

Segmentation, fragmentation, and finally balkanisation have been part of the historical process in many countries to destroy national identity and thereby cause the political division of the nation itself. Yugoslavia is a recent example of this, which has now been divided into four countries, largely due to Islamic separatism and Serbian over-reaction.

Virat Hindutva can be achieved in the first stage by Hindu consolidation, that is achieved by Hindus holding that they are Hindus first and last, by disowning primacy to their caste and regional loyalties.

This would require a renaissance in thinking and outlook, that can be fostered only by patient advocacy and intellectual ferment.

For this we need a new History text, and a proper understanding of the distinction between the four varnas [not birth based but by codes of behavior for devolution of power in society] and jati [which is birth based and mostly for marriages].

Just as Valmiki and Vyasa are regarded as Maharshis despite being of different jati from Parasuram, hence Dr. Ambedkar should be called a Maharishi for his sheer depth of knowledge of Indian history.

That he had become bitter because of Nehru systematically sidelining him is no reason not to do so.

India thus needs a Hindu renaissance today that incorporates modern principles, e.g., of the irrelevance of birth antecedents, fostering gender equality, ensuring equality before law, and accountability for all. It is also essential to integrate the entire Indian society on those principles, irrespective of religion.

Uniform Civil Code for example, is something that the vast majority of Muslim women want, but because this demand has been usurped by those who deny the equality of nationality to the Muslims, hence comes the resistance to a eminently reasonable value.

The Muslims think that this is the first step in several to subjugate them or wipe out their identity. But Muslims have quietly accepted Uniform Criminal Code [the IPC] despite that it contradicts the Sharia.

In other words, Hindutva has two components—one that Hindus can accept [such as caste abolition, eradication of dowry etc.] without any other religion’s interests to consider. The other is the embracing by minorities of the core secular Indian values which have Hindu roots.

This would require, particularly Muslims and Christians, to acknowledge that their ancestry is Hindu, and thus own the entire Hindu past as their own legacy, and to thus tailor their outlook on that basis. This would integrate Indian society and make the concept of an inclusive[Brihad] Hindutva and rooted in India’s continuing civilisation.

Thus, if India has to decide to have or not have good relations with Israel, Pakistan, Iran or US, it cannot be on the basis how it will impact on India’s Muslims and Christians, but on what India’s national interests require. If India has to dispatch troops to Afghanistan, Iraq, Sri Lanka or Nepal to combat terrorism, that policy too has to be decided on what is good for India, and not what any religious or linguistic group identifies as it’s interest.

Thus such an Hindutva is positive in outlook, while raw Hindu xenophobia is negative and based on Hindu hegemony which will frighten all. Such a Hindutva will resolve our current energy-sapping identity crisis, which otherwise will completely emasculate India in the long run.
The choice for the patriotic Indian is thus clear: We need a clear and positive view of our national identity based on our Hindu past and a Hindu renaissance to unite the Hindus with constructive mind-set as well as persuade the minorities to be co-opted culturally with Hindu society.

Once being Indian means Virat Brihad Hindutva, we can tackle terrorism by an effective strategy of defence. What are the components of that strategy is the subject matter of my next column here. (To be concluded)
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#20
<!--emo&<_<--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='dry.gif' /><!--endemo--> Hindus don’t have monopoly on the nation: RSS

Agencies Posted: Dec 24, 2008 at 1531 hrs IST
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Shillong: Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) on Wednesday called for unity among the different communities of the nation.

"The diversity of communities of the nation calls upon its people to realise the unity. Efforts should be made to root out the conflicts existing among the communities," RSS general secretary Mohanji Bhagwat said.

Stating that the word ‘Hindu’ is being 'misunderstood' and 'misinterpreted', Bhagwat said, “Hindu community is not the only community that has monopoly on the nation's culture.”

He said the people of the nation should recognise the glorious culture and tradition of the country.

RSS, he said, has been backing every effort intended to protect one's identity.

He called upon the people to respect every individual and every society.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/hindus-d...ion-rss/402456/
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