The Cure For Terrorism Is Virat Brihad Hindutva

[G.Subramaniam]

<!--QuoteBegin-Shambhu+Jan 15 2009, 04:13 AM-->QUOTE(Shambhu @ Jan 15 2009, 04:13 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->I hope RSS (or any other re-converting agency) continue whatever they do! We, for our part need to keep up bringing out the truth about Islam, christianism, and Sanatan Dharma ..that may influence the decision of some muslims to stay muslim.
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21000 muslims reconverted, while 21 million more muslims are born

reconversion is a futile game, counter breeding is more urgent

[Guest]

[/quote]


21000 muslims reconverted, while 21 million more muslims are born

reconversion is a futile game, counter breeding is more urgent
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The Problem is in part the fear of becoming a minority simply due to the fact that Islam is demographically expanding where as others are decreasing in numbers, the four growing population in the world today are Moslem, Hindu and Chinese as well as African. Where as the rest that do maintain the power today are being out numbered soon and they do fear for their status and place in the World and are in part the source of this paranoia. <b>Until Today the Largest Populace Globally was Christian and yet now they are equated by Moslems and soon the largest Population Globally will be Moslem even in Europe by 2050, 35% of all European will be Moslem.</b>

The recent comments by shourie on west Bengal will become west Bangladesh is very true.We have to concentrate on the measures with urgency by increase breeding and relocation of Hindus as the measure .Conversions is simply an eye wash as that is not a true solution

[Guest]

Kishoreji,

Competing in number game may be a losing proposition. Then the option available is two-fold. a) Convert them back; and b) forbid them from joining the international brotherhood of Islam.

Actually proposition (b) will be a continual task until Islam dies out as a phenmenon. (As it had a beginning, it will also have an end. Sanathana Dharma on the other hand is beginningless.)

The Israelis and the Palestinians have the following differences.

The Israelis are Jews and the Palestinians are Muslims.
The land is claimed as their ancient heritage by the Israelis while the Palestinians are the later occupants.
The Israelis, majority of whom are the white European Jews while the Palestinians are the Arab Muslims.

Thus there are religious, ancestoral and racial differences between these two and that is why they can never live in peace side by side.

In India the Hindus and the Muslims have a common heritage.
In India the Hindus and the Muslims have a common culture.
In India the Hindus and the Muslims have a common language.
In India the Hindus and the Muslims have common history.
In India the Hindus and the Muslims have a common claim to the land as their home.

In India the mullahs alienate the Muslims from what they have as common with the Hindus.

In India the mullahs are the problem. They are the ones to be separated from the rest of the Muslims. The present secular state and the government and the political classes won't separate these two.

We need a Hindu national govt that would cull these mullahs. This alone would either bring those flocks back to Hinduism or to be let to follow their faith harmlessly, a faith that would be told not to look for Mecca. This would be the only option. Any other would only turn out to terrorize the Hindus.

You could produce a hundred kids like Dridhraashtra but they will be the adharmic Kauravas who would turn to be secularists or converted to Islam and Christianity. It is like the Christian God producing innumerable souls who endless march to the hell for they are 'sinners'.
<b>
So our focus and priority is one and only one. Get back the lost Hindu Raashtra.</b>
Constitutionally if possible.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Savithri+Jan 15 2009, 07:53 PM-->QUOTE(Savithri @ Jan 15 2009, 07:53 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->So our focus and priority is one and only one.  Get back the lost Hindu Raashtra
Constitutionally if possible.
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<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>A Raashtra to become a Raashtra needs an awakening . A sense of home coming, a sense of affinity to what is ours .The passion to recreate the glory of a nation.

For this we need a powerful strong leadership. We need a population that is aware of its civic responsibility and has high moral standards</span>.

For a Hindu Raashtra we have to take complete pride in what we are and love the heritage we hail from. Self awareness along with spiritual development we can build a Raashtra that is a formidable force .This again calls for complete sacrifice just like the forefathers did during pre independence era from the foreign yoke. A whole generation have to put at stake everything that matters so that we can lay the foundation to create that Ramrajya where we have an egalitarian society and deal with complacency by death as punishment.

This means we have to go back to the basics,

1) Give up this life style and embrace simple disciplined life
2) Set good moral examples of family integration
3) Focus on re-introducing joint family traditions which is the base for a society
4) Ceaselessly work on indoctrinating the population as to who we are and our roots as pracharaks
5) Destroy the petty differences and unite the population under one banner and one feeling of nationalism
6) Establish one single Dharmic pillar
7) Generate three tier leadership .One to lead from the front at the helm another to Monitor/govern and third one to lead the movement at the grassroot level
8) We need to create a mechanism to adopt the "CREATION OF FORTUNE At the bottom of the pyramid " principles of CK Prahalad as an answer to the Khadi movement of the pre independence era so that it brings involvement of the common man in every village into the fold as it pulls the urbanites for socio-economic balance and equality, minus the greed and avarice for over indulgence in wealth

In the nirman of a Raashtra there is no place for dualism. There is no place for softness/complacency or laziness and there is no place for "middle path"

There should be a powerful emotional connection of the motherland and the need for its protection.

What I wish to ask you is, is the current population or the leadership willing to make this sacrifice. Do we have that leadership that will lead from the front with courage and for whom we shall be ready to sacrifice our lives? Do we have such a Leadership with such moral standards and integrity???

A Raashtra is above all political parties, selfish motives, wealth and status or power seeking.

A Hindu Raashtra during Shivaji or Krishnadevaraya was possible as they were not tormented by world politics nor was there any human rights commission nor UNO or worst still the USA.We lead a subsistance life style in those days and today we are a global village.In short if USA sneezes today then India catches cold. They cared little for all those external factors and established the DHARMA

But today we cannot wage wars to seek our purpose nor enforce anything without the Human rights crying foul and the govt on its knees most of the time trying to do only firefighting.

In this state of affair SAANATHANA DHARMA PRACHAR has to become active but we also cannot forget the reality that if Raashtra feeling has to be created then it cannot be done with the current ADHARMA sentiments in citizens.

The under class Muslims will be willing to reconvert as they have affinity with Indian culture. BUT not all have that affinity. A vast population in the North West India has ancestral roots with IRAQ and Persia (IRAN) .At the same time their affinity is not with Sufism or plain Koran but Mecca.

<b>Religious sentiments are subservient to nationalistic values and emotions</b>

Pray tell me how are you going to change that factor?

We can look upon muslims and Hindus as brothers and sisters . But frankly I won’t go beyond that personally. Culturally India has had diverse and multi tier society which seriously needs correction from within and throw all baggage’s of the unhealthy past and relate back to the Saanathana Dharma

Reconversion is not a final solution if you have Hindu Raashtra in Mind

<b>Kautilya in Arthashastra

"Those that have surrendered as fallen in the battle and the citizens of the fallen nation must be sent on the front .When the next battle for the Dharma takes place these Surrendered population must be made expendable on the front thus, minimizing the collateral damage of our loyal soldiers. For they, who have surrendered their loyalty and faith by the sword can do the same at the feet of our enemies repeatedly without honour "</b>

You are mistaken if you think you can flock them back to the fold. This is an overoptimistic estimation. Only the underclass muslims in South Indian and the eastern parts of India may be responding to such a call. But not entirely!! They will continue to be a country within a country connecting themselves to beyond.How else can you explain highly educated muslim class of people from professions like medicine, Legal and scientists responding to the call of Jihad and falling so lowly as becoming sucide bombers right from the heart of India to obtain "Jannat "

When the time comes even a Brahmana must not hesitate to raise a sword of Dharma to restore back the Dharma.

<b>Can you separate a Swami or an acharya from the devotees and in the same way how can you separate the Mullahs from the followers</b>

<b>Again it must not be mistaken that a Hindu Raashtra as a religious crusade. It is a tradition of a nation that people hold in high esteem above all religion and have highest regards for national heroes .This is the love of the motherland far overpowering all desires and material gains.</b>

What I lament is that we are a fallen lot today, spiritually bankrupt and so entrapped with our selfish mindset in Tamas guna, that we are not willing to make even an ounce of commitment to bring a change that is echoing in our hearts, in our dreams, in our soul.

<b>We are only now awakening and all it takes is just handful of highly strong minded individuals with high integrity and commitment to usher the change.</b>

[Guest]

Kishoreji,

I very much appreciate your very emotional yet rational writing.

I do share the opinion that our problems are huge as they have grown up as formidable over a long time. I am equally of the opinion that we can piece them up dispassionately so we can surmount. And then surely we can focus on each piece to find a solution through our collective intelligence.

Our self-awareness has started unfolding!

Regards,

[Shambhu]

Let me add:

1. Get to know the very simple yet complex method of ensuring dispersal. Lately this has been called "virality". Tied in with this is the literary style which ensures your subject matter goes into people's hearts, and does not get entangled in their superficial "intellectual mind", which is in quotes because the overwhelming majority of people have no intellectual mind, but they do have a set of biases which they frame their worldview on, and which they like to call their "intellect". For example: "the gora aadmi is always right" is part of the "intellect" of pseudoseculars.

2. Be grounded in the truth; since the paradigm is simple: Dharma is grounded in truth, desert cults in untruth. So getting people to focus on the truth-- true history, truth in everything, wherever it may lead them- - leads people to Dharma and Dharma only. If desert cults start researching the truth without bias, they will start hacking off their own feet. That is what we want them to do. Nothing criminal. Just ask them to prove things. They will always fall short.

3. Give people credit. Some will remember my habit of awarding "copyright" to person x or y for his/her contributions. Makes everyone happy, and more importantly, makes less interested people stay and contribute.

[Shambhu]

<!--QuoteBegin-G.Subramaniam+Jan 15 2009, 08:26 AM-->QUOTE(G.Subramaniam @ Jan 15 2009, 08:26 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Shambhu+Jan 15 2009, 04:13 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shambhu @ Jan 15 2009, 04:13 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->I hope RSS (or any other re-converting agency) continue whatever they do! We, for our part need to keep up bringing out the truth about Islam, christianism, and Sanatan Dharma ..that may influence the decision of some muslims to stay muslim.
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21000 muslims reconverted, while 21 million more muslims are born

reconversion is a futile game, counter breeding is more urgent
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Counter breeding is much more important, but reconversion is hardly futile! Imagine the number of kids who now will be born non-jehadi!

Actually, if we convert in massive numbers, its that number of muslims less *and* that number of hindus more. Plus, the psychological hit sustained on the psyche of the mullas of losing large chunks of momeen in a publicised manner cannot be underestimated.

Again, counter-breeding is #1, but it is hard to convince people to have more kids..converting is easier..

[Guest]

The atrocities committed by the muslim invaders and their conversion under death threats and not given at all in the school books let alone the gory details. This is how secularism protects the muslims in return for being their vote bank. The abominations of Christendom in Africa, Latin America, Goa and even in Europe through their inquisions are to be printed out and freely given to the students of all ages by the Hindu organizations.

I am trying to get more of what transpired in the International meet on Indian history at Delhi and would post on them soon.

In the meantime we must discuss with grass-root organizations to help them with literatures and other wherewithal so they can take them to the young masses irrespective of their religious affiliations. Of course targeting Hindus comes first.

[G.Subramaniam]

In 1947, the sikhs were organised and militant
They got murdered in west punjab since they were a minority

But in east punjab, where the muslims were in minority,
the muslims got cleaned out

Lesson, organising and militancy is great, but counter breeding is the foundation

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Shambhu+Jan 16 2009, 05:00 AM-->QUOTE(Shambhu @ Jan 16 2009, 05:00 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Let me add:

1. Get to know the very simple yet complex method of ensuring dispersal. Lately this has been called "virality". Tied in with this is the literary style which ensures your subject matter goes into people's hearts, and does not get entangled in their superficial "intellectual mind", which is in quotes because the overwhelming majority of people have no intellectual mind, but they do have a set of biases which they frame their worldview on, and which they like to call their "intellect". For example: "the gora aadmi is always right" is part of the "intellect" of pseudoseculars.

2. Be grounded in the truth; since the paradigm is simple: Dharma is grounded in truth, desert cults in untruth. So getting people to focus on the truth-- true history, truth in everything, wherever it may lead them- - leads people to Dharma and Dharma only. If desert cults start researching the truth without bias, they will start hacking off their own feet. That is what we want them to do. Nothing criminal. Just ask them to prove things. They will always fall short.


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Very aptly expressed and makes a lot of sense in reaching out to the masses despite their bias

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Savithri+Jan 16 2009, 06:27 AM-->QUOTE(Savithri @ Jan 16 2009, 06:27 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->In the meantime we must discuss with grass-root organizations to help them with literatures and other wherewithal so they can take them to the young masses irrespective of their religious affiliations.  Of course targeting Hindus comes first.
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That is the place to make a begining. The younger masses are maleable and ductile and will be open to learnings.They can be moulded to love their Raashtra and learn to build distinctions between what is the rigth path of simple living and high thinking can take one a long way in life.With true values one can always walk on the streets with his/her head held high. We must impregnate their minds with the fact that they are the future custodians of the true India that is awakening.In them we must sow the seeds of leadership qualities that will be above self.
We must impart the true essesnce of the Sannathana Dharma with them to vaccinate them from the virus of bigotism and fanatism and develop national pride.

Again when I write this I dont mean to convert this into an intellectual cliche but suggest the practical way.

If I have to build a garden I will not do it in a devasted place but where it is fertile and fresh without the baggage of the past failures or pain as a virgin effort.

<b>Its a great pleasure to sow seeds and watch the saplings emerge and slowly take shape and as they grow mother nature automatically calls the Birds, butterflies and the bees to the task - signifying values

To ward off the weeds of parthenium plants I shall plant more Durantha saplings which with its lush greenery can stall the spread of the weeds. </b>

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-G.Subramaniam+Jan 16 2009, 07:33 AM-->QUOTE(G.Subramaniam @ Jan 16 2009, 07:33 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->In 1947, the sikhs were organised and militant
They got murdered in west punjab since they were a minority

But in east punjab, where the muslims were in minority,
the muslims got cleaned out

Lesson, organising and militancy is great, but counter breeding is the foundation
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What you are talking is the <b>rampage</b> that took place as a result of partition. We, on the other hand, are talking of<b> 'organized' struggle.</b> In Mahabharatha the Kauravas had 11 akshouhinis but the Pandavas had only 7. Yet Pandavas won because of their acumen. The underlining fact, however, is that they fought for Dharma and Dharma stood by them (Dharmo Rakshathi Rakshitha.

[Guest]

<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Leadership & Managing Power - 1</span>

<b>Insights from Mahabharata </b>
<i>
Pradip Bhattacharya</i>

Urdhvabahurviraumyesa na ca kashcicchrnoti me /
Dharmadarthashca kamashca sa kimartham na sevyyata //

“I raise my arms and I shout – but no one listens !
From dharma comes success and pleasure : Why is dharma not practised?”
– Svargarohana Parva [“Ascent to Heaven”] [ 1]

Six figures etched on the Himalayan skyline. As they inch up the steep bleak heights, suddenly the last figure, a woman, crumbles. A slight pause, then the five labour on upwards. One by one, four fall. “Why? Why?” the shrieking wind whistling down the icy gorges tears the question to shreds. The lone survivor does not look back. He vanishes from sight on Mount Meru—Exeunt, followed by a mongrel.

‘The first spectacle that Yudhishthira saw when he entered heaven was Duryodhana gloriously esconced in a beautiful seat and radiating a heroic sun-like splendour…. Yudhishthira said, “This is not heaven.”’ [2]

Alone on the slopes of Meru, dragging in the thin, icy air in short agonizing gasps, waiting for the end, Yajnaseni-Draupadi watches the past flash by in iridescent vignettes. Finally empress of Bharatavarsha indeed: all children and kin slaughtered; sakha Krishna and his clan decimated in internecine strife, the Yadava women abducted by staff-wielding robbers from the custody of Gandiva-wielding invincible Arjuna; mother-in-law Kunti retiring to the forest and dying in a forest fire; and now not one of her five husbands has turned back to be with her in her last moments. Nathavati anathavat, five-husbanded indeed, but ever without protection! What was Kurukshetra all about? A struggle for power, a wreaking of vengeance, a righteous war to establish dharma?

“What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow
out of this stony rubbish? Son of man,
You cannot say, or guess, for you know only
A heap of broken images…. [3]

Power is craved because of the pleasure it brings, but the history of kingship recounted in the epic brings home a very different perception: individual power has to be given up in the interest of public welfare.

The epic tells us that when the unhindered play of individualism led to the strong oppressing the weak [matsyanyaya], with none enforcing the rules agreed upon, the vexed people decided to give up their individual power in the interest of general welfare and approached Vaivasvat Manu for assuming overlordship. For his pains they offered one-fiftieth of their herds, one-tenth of their agricultural produce and one-fourth of the merit that the subjects would accrue by observing dharma.[4] The massive corpus of the Shanti Parva is devoted to Bhishma’s discourse on the intricacies of Raja dharma, the way of the king, in which the key pronouncement is:

Atma jeyah sada rajna tato jeyashca shatravah /
Ajitatma narapatirvijayeta katham ripun //

“First the raja shall conquer enemies.
He who has not conquered himself, how will that raja succeed in conquering enemies?”5]

In another account the epic throws significant light on the implications of exercising power in governance. The first king was Ananga, and it is with his grandson Vena that we come across the record of what power brings in its wake: one cannot have enough of it. That is why power is said to corrupt, and when it is absolute in nature, the corruption it brings about is also total. Vena became a tyrant, oppressing the people so that they slew him and in his place chose Prithu as king, for he had mastered the science of danda [chastisement] that upholds dharma. It is Prithu who cultivated the earth, made it yield its fruits so that it was called “Prithivi” after him. Because he protected all from harm, he was called Kshatriya, and because he pleased all the people he was renowned as raja

Ranjitashca prajah sarvastena rajeti shabdoyate // [6]

From one point of view, Vyasa’s epic is a study of the use and abuse of power. It is not that in itself power is good or bad. It is essentially a force, a weapon, that can be used to save and foster or to harm and extort: “Desiring power first as an instrument for the achievement of other ends, he falls in love with and retains it as an end in itself … the man who has drunk of the draught of power loses his wisdom and , forgetful of the end which power should have achieved, dictates for the sake of dictating.”[8] This, indeed, is what Vyasa recounts.

Essentially what the epic depicts is the fortunes of the dynasty founded by Yayati, and the struggle between his descendants for the hegemony of Bharatavarsha. As a dynast, he is a watershed in Pauranik history. Of his five sons the Yadavas, stemming from the disinherited eldest son, Yadu, and the Pauravas descending from the youngest son Puru who gets the throne, are the most important. One branch of the family establishes itself in Hastinapura, while another rules in Magadha. The Kauravas, Pandavas and Panchalas are all Pauravas, battling amongst themselves on Kurukshetra with the Yadava Krishna presiding over it all.

The first attempts to establish tyrannical supremacy are made by Jarasandha of Magadha (modern Bihar). He makes Kansa, son of the head of the Mathura oligarchy, his son-in-law, and then manipulates him into imprisoning the titular head, his father Ugrasena. Kansa becomes tyrant of Mathura. One by one Jarasandha imprisons eightysix princes, his goal being to sacrifice a hundred to Shiva to celebrate his coronation an emperor, samrat. Around him he builds a circle of like-minded abusers of the people’s trust: Dantavakra of Karusha and Sishupala of Chedi in central India, Bhishmaka of Vidarbha in the south-west, Kalayavana beyond the western borders, the ruler of Kashi (Benares), Paundraka Vasudeva of Pundra (Bengal) in the east, Naraka of Pragjyotishapura (Assam) in the north east. The only person with the statesman’s vision to perceive Jarasandha’s design is Krishna. To save the Yadavas from being enslaved, he persuades them to abandon Mathura, which was being repeatedly attacked by Jarasandha, and to re-establish themselves in the fortified city of Dvaraka on the western seashore. From here he cast an eagle eye over Bharatavarsha, seeking desperately for a countervailing force.

In the natural course of things, this force should have been available in Hastinapura, for it was here that the great righteous monarch Bharata had ruled, after whom the country took its name “Bharatavarsha”. But here, again, personal lust was allowed to cloud a ruler’s vision of public welfare. Bharata the eponymous dynast had displayed the true qualities of greatness. Finding all his sons unworthy to rule, he discarded blind adherence primogeniture, adopted the Brahmin Bharadvaja and, renaming him Vitatha, gave him the kingdom. This over-riding concern for the welfare of the people instead of caring for the claims of one’s progeny is what sets Bharata apart. It is precisely the lack of this in his descendants Shantanu and Dhritarashtra that heralds the doom of the dynasty. The contrast Shantanu presents to his ancestor Bharata is astonishing. In pursuing the gratification of his personal desire for the intoxicatingly fragrant and dark fisher-maiden Kali Shantanu is blind to the paramount consideration of the welfare of his subjects, who already have in Devavrata a completely qualified heir-apparent. He eagerly concurs in Gangadatta-Devavrata’s vow to abjure the throne and marriage. By way of appreciation he confers on his son the boon of choosing the moment of his death. And this becomes the bane of Bhishma’s life.

Shantanu dies before his sons from Satyavati reach majority. The eldest, Chitrangada, is killed fighting a Gandharva, with no sign of his invincible foster-brother fighting at his side. Vichitravirya becomes king as a minor, makes no mark whatsoever, and is prematurely provided by Bhishma, at the insistence of queen mother Satyavati, hungry for progeny, with two voluptuous brides. Vichitravirya dies without issue, as “driven by passion, (he) became/a victim of his own lust.” These are words which will be echoed by his foster-son, Pandu who laments:

Noble blood is of little help
Deluded by passions, the best
of men turn wicked, and reap
the evil that they sow.
My father was born noble,
his father was noble too.
Lust was his ruin, he died
while still a youth.
And in his lustful field
I was sown by Krishna Dvaipayana.
And I am a victim of the hunt !
My mind is full of killing,
shooting down deer.[8]

Bhisma: Power Unused

It is the death of Vichitravirya that leads to the first exposition of Bhishma’s superhuman qualities. When Satyavati pleads with him to satisfy the craving of Ambika and Ambalika for sons (a typical case of desire transference, for it is she who is desperate for grandsons), and thereby save the dynasty from extinction, this is his response:

I will give up the three worlds
I will give up heaven,
I will give up more than the three worlds and heaven,
But I will not give up my truth.
Earth may give up fragrance,
Water its wetness,
Light clarity,
Wind movement,
Sun may give up splendour,
fire its heat,
moon coolness
sky either,
Indra, Vritra-slayer, may give up valour,
Yama the just, justice,
But I will not break my vow.

Now comes an extremely revealing comment:

Let doom overtake the world !
Immortality cannot tempt me,
nor lordship of the three worlds !
I will not break the vow. [9]

This is the essence of Bhishma’s dharma. His attachment to the vow of celibacy takes over-riding precedence over everything else, including the public weal. He is not bothered about the chaos that will occur in Hastinapura with no one to inherit the throne. His major concern is that his vow must remain intact. The motivation is highly complex, for in it play a number of factors: resentment against his mother Ganga for depriving him of paternal love from birth and then of maternal love from the crucial adolescent age onwards; disgust for a father who dotes on a teenaged fisher-girl oblivious of his obligations to the people; anger against Satyavati, the cause of the terrible sacrifice he has had to make. Once more, the end result is self prized above service.

What is the nature of this famous vow? It is not only the giving-up of a Crown Prince’s right to the throne [which had been done by some of his ancestors like Yati and his uncle Devapi] but also the incredible sacrifice of a Kshatriya right to beget progeny in order to subserve a father’s infatuation for a fisher-girl. The futility of it all is that the vow is adhered to long after its purpose has been served and even when it becomes dysfunctional to the extent of threatening the very existing of the dynasty of which Bhishma is the sole remaining representative.

Of a piece with this obstinate adherence to his vow is Bhishma’s peculiar attachment to Hastinapura itself. He is the same age as Satyavati, if not older, but she does not follow her into vanaprastha in the forest after the death of Pandu, when Vyasa advises his mother and her two daughters-in-law not to be witnesses to the suicide of their race. Bhishma is entombed in a perpetual brahmacharya ashrama, the first of the four stages in a human being’s life. He eschews the stage of a householder, does not retire to the forest, and fails to become a sanyasi. With this goes an obsession with Hastinapura, so strong that he can bring himself to support the Pandavas only verbally, but needs must ally himself physically with the Dhartarashtras despite knowing them to be in the wrong. And that he does to the extent of leading their armies against the Pandavas in a cause which he believes to be wrong! Truly, he is a man divided against himself. The only rationale he provides for his behaviour is that he and Drona are borne on the Hastinapura monarch’s exchequer and hence bound to serve him. Yet, Yuyutsut, son of Dhritarashtra, has no hesitation in rising above loyalty to his brothers to cross-over to the side he knows to be in the right. It is Gandhari who points out to her husband at the time of Krishna’s peace-mission that the warriors on whom their son foolishly depends will not lead him to victory because, although they will fight on his side being rajapinda bhayat [borne on the state’s payroll], their hearts will not be with him.[10] Bhishma himself echoes this when he tells them that he, along with Kripa and Drona, are bound to the Kauravas “by need”, that is, they are borne on the Kaurava exchequer.[11]

It is Bhisma who is instrumental in bringing about the deaths of the successors to the Hastinapura throne, albeit unwittingly. We have already seen that his over-eagerness to provide his stepbrother with a surfeit of brides resulted in Vichitravirya’s premature demise. This was followed his going out of his way to procure a second bride for Pandu, whose very name indicates the state of his wife. It is significant that the blind Dhritarashtra was not provided a second wife by Bhishma. Pandu had gone to a svayamvara (bridegroom-choice ceremony) on his own. No Kuru king is found attending any previous to this. Bhishma paid considerable bride price to procure Madri who becomes the direct cause of Pandu’s death.

It is significant that when Pandu leaves Hastinapura on a self-imposed exile, Bhishma does not protest. Nor does he ever enquire after the welfare of this scion of the dynasty in the Himalayan wilderness. Even news of the birth of the sons to Pandu, cursed with death in intercourse, does not arouse curiously or lead to any embassy from the capital to the forest to celebrate the birth of hairs to the sterile throne. The same indifference was displayed during the battle in which his stepbrother Chitrangada died. It is an though Bhishma were pleased to have the consumptive Vichitravirya engrossed in his wives, and then blind Dhritarashtra on the throne, as titular monarchs with himself as the all-powerful Grey Eminence actually his alone. Unfortunately, the coming of Shakuni, accompanying his sister to her life-long immurement in darkness in Hastinapura compelled by Bhishma, changed the entire completion of the situation. Is it not symptomatic of Bhishma’s insensitivity to human feelings that he should never have enquired of Gandhari the reason for bandaging her eyes permanently, or have asked her not to do so? It is as though, having suppressed his strongest urge and failed to sublimate it, Bhishma became the ultimate misogynist, automatically stonewalling against awareness of feelings of others, particularly women. This is consistent with his indifference to the predicament in which he places Amba that ends in her suicide. The price has to be paid by Hastinapura, whose vitals Shakuni worms into, exuding that poison which corrodes the dynasty. Incredibly, Bhishma yet again remains a silent spectator to the poisoning of Bhima, the gutting of the House of Lac, the division of the kingdom, the cheating in the dice-game, the disrobing of Draupadi, the refusal to restore Indraprastha after the exile is over. It is the supreme example of the “Witness” stance, suddenly broken when war begins. Then the Witness unaccountably turns into the Fighter against those in whose cause he believes, yet whom he will, perversely, not support.

“In tragic life, God wot, no villain need be;
Passion spin the plot. We are betrayed
By what is false within.” [12]

It is supremely ironic that the prince who earned the sobriquet of “Bhishma” and came to be renowned as the greatest of renouncers should be so hopelessly bound to his father’s throne as not only to preside over the suicide of the dynasty, but to actually participate in it on the side he knows to be in the wrong! Indeed, Devavrata-Gangadatta-Bhishma is another Prometheus, bound in adamantine chains to the icy Caucasian peaks of the Hastinapura throne, wracked in immortal agony as the Dhartarashtra-Pandava fratricidal strife eats into his vitals endlessly. For, perversely, he cannot, or will not, die till liberation comes in the form of mortal arrows showered by a grandchild who loves him.

It speaks volumes for the much-vaunted wisdom of Bhishma that he never cast a glance eastward of Hastinapura towards the alarming imperialistic ambitions of Magadha’s Jarasandha despite the phenomenon of nearly a hundred kings having been captured and nearby Mathura attacked repeatedly. A contingent from Hastinapura even accompanied the Magadhan army’s onslaught on Mathura. One gets a sense of Bhishma presiding over a small and weak kingdom, worried only about the traditional enemies, the Panchalas [which is why Drupada’s sworn enemy Drona is immediately taken into employment in Hastinapura], and blind to the growing threat of the Jarasandha-Shishupala-Dantavakra-Kashi-Paundraka-Naraka-Kalayavana combine gathering forces to the south, the east and the west. Bhishma merely made sure of the north-western border through marital alliances with Madra and Gandhara, and the west by marrying Dhritarashtra’s daughter Duhshala to Jayadratha, the Sindhu King. He was unaware that the tenuous link down the Ganga with Kashi, whose princesses were the Queen-mothers of Hastinapura, was already snapped by Magadha. It is young Krishna who puts paid to these imperialistic designs by killing each of the tyrants separately, without any assistance from Bhishma, renowned as the greatest statesman of the age.

This failed statesman, and this misogynist par excellence who abuses his Kshatriya prowess to ruin the lives of Amba, Ambika, Ambalika, Kunti, and watches, without protest, the attempted disrobing of Draupadi, is also a Commander-in-Chief who deprives his army of its best warrior, Karna, by insulting him so grossly that he withdraws from battle. Further, he announces that he will not slay any of the Pandavas and will befriend them in his thoughts at night, although he will fight against them during the day. What a splendid morale booster for his army! Over a period of ten days he kills thousands of innocent soldiers but not a single Pandava. Unlike Drona, Bhishma does not even think of capturing Yudhishthira as a way to end the war. It is as though he were trying to tire out Duryodhana till he agrees to a truce. Repeatedly Duryodhana voices his anguish over Bhishma’s half-hearted leadership, which he will not relinquish. A peculiar dharma indeed!

It is a fact that Bhishma bestrides the epic like a colossus and it is because of this that he has been celebrated over millennia as the repository of statecraft and the embodiment of the warrior code, dharma-dharma, to be looked up to by all succeeding generations. This aura is like the upanishadic golden lid veiling the face of truth. What Vyasa shows us is Bhishma standing as the last bulwark of the ancient dharma in which loyalty to the clan over-rode all other claims; in which fidelity to one’s word was the be-all and end-all; into which considerations of the larger public weal did not enter. The deceptive aura of perfection is ruthlessly dispelled in the Draupadi-vastraharana episode. Never have the limitations of Bhishma’s way of life been exposed so mercilessly as when Draupadi challenges him to stand by those very tenets of nobility which the Kuru court supposed to uphold.

Let us listen to that traumatic exchange of words:

Draupadi said:

“It is most wrong, most wrong
to drag me in my period
before the Kuru heroes. But none
here finds it wrong.
Oh the shame of it! If all
these great Kuru heroes
Find nothing wrong here, then
the dharma of the Bharatas
Is dead, the dharma of the
Kshatriyas is dead.
Drona, Bhishma, Vidura,
and the great monarch
Have lost their greatness—else
why are they silent?…
There is no sabha without elders,
no elders without dharma
there is no dharma without truth,
no truth without honesty.”

Bhishma said:

“Noble lady…. What can I say?
It’s all very puzzling.
Dharma is very subtle…
Very confusing.
I don’t know what to say.” [13]

Here is Bhishma prefiguring Hamlet in mulling over a philosophical dilemma while a queen’s honour is at stake! Within Bhishma plays, subconsciously, that deep seated grievance against mother and stepmother because of which he treats women as chattel. He is wholly oblivious of his obligation, as the patriarch in society, to set an example for others to follow. That is why, pointing to his silence, Karna argues that Draupadi must have been duly won and orders watch in a silence that is stupefying for its callousness. As she is about to be dragged away to the servants’ quarters, Panchali makes a last attempt to arouse the sopoforic manhood of the Kuru Court whose guardian Bhishma is supposed to be:

Never before have we heard of
a wife forced to stand
Before a sabha. The Kurus have broken
that ancient rule…
Something must be very wrong
if the Kurus let their
Innocent daughter-in-law
suffer in this way!
Where is your sense of dharma ?

Bhishma said, “Shining lady,
I have already said
that Dharma is subtle.[14]

What Bhishma says now is of very great importance, for it speaks of the breakdown of a system of values, of dharma having become an empty shell:

“What a strong man says often
becomes the only dharma;
A weak man may have dharma on his side
but who listens to him ?
To tell you the truth
I don’t know what to say.”[15]

The face of Truth is hidden by not a golden lid but a sadly tarnished one. Here is the greatest of patriarchs enmeshing himself in the dialectics of reason: whether Draupadi has been won or not. As if that issue is of more importance than protecting her modesty and saving the reputation of the Kuru Court whose code enshrines protecting the weak as a central tenet. The confusion in Bhishma becomes evident as he abruptly swings to asserting that the family which has taken Draupadi as daughter-in-law will not stray from the path of dharma. Yet he does not lift a finger to free her from brutal Duhshasana’s clutches. Instead, he voices a meaningless approval of her stance:

“Your conduct now, O Panchali,
is worthy of you—
Though you suffer, you appeal to
the truths of Dharma.
Our elders, learned-in-dharma
Drona and others, sit
Here with lowered eyes like dead men
with life-breaths gone.”[16]

Indeed, the life-breath of this dharma is gone. What exists is a putrefying corpse kept artificially alive, shown ultimately in Bhishma’s death-in-life on the bed-of-arrows. It is revealing that explicit prohibition, disgust at the proceedings and warning is voiced finally not by the Kshatriya Bhishma, protector of Hastinapura, but by the son of a mixed-caste sage and a maid servant, Vidura:

“Now they insult a woman
Nobility is dead.
The Kauravas conspire sinfully…
Dharma violated in a
sabha, destroys the sabha…Kurus,
do not abandon dharma.”[17]

The problem is that Vidura is powerless. He can merely advise, exhort, and plead with the blind Dhritarashtra who, obsessed by his desire that the throne must be his son Duryodhana’s, is deaf to all appeals. In the very beginning of the epic we are told that the Kauravas are a giant tree of passion whose root is the weak-minded Dhritarashtra. Its seed is infatuation, its branches are anger and pride rooted in ignorance.[18] The state power remains reined in, for

“The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of a passionate intensity.”

Bhishma’s failure as a leader of the polity lies in his never having practiced the raja-dharma he speaks of at length to Yudhishthira on his bed-of-arrows which seems to become his penance for inaction. In a Kshatriya the “witness” stance only brings about the destruction of the policy. The Kshatriya must use power to protect the rights of the weak, for that is his dharma, the truth of his nature. To abjure this because of a self-imposed vow and turn into the Egotistical Sublime of the age brings destruction and misery in its wake not only for oneself, but also for the entire society of which such a person is the corner stone, the pillar of strength. Withdrawal from the rightful use of danda and exercising state power for lokasamgraha, holding together the people in the way of dharma, is abdication that betrays the Kshatriya code. Indeed, in Bhishma, between the ideal and the reality falls the shadow. Here is a leader fallen by the way.

When the celestial sage Narada visits Dhritarashtra, he tries to instruct him in the dangers that wielders of state power are prone to. In this attempt he recounts the example of Yayati, the founder of the dynasty. In Yayati’s own words:

I have lived in many realms,
I was adored by the gods,
I shone like the gods,
I was powerful like the gods
for millions of years I made love
to apsaras in the Nandana-gardens,
under clustering, lovely trees
ornamented with flowers
shedding delicate scent upon us…
Then a fearful-faced messenger came
And shouted loudly, thrice:
‘Lost! Lost! Lost!’
And I fell from Nandana. [20]

Yayati states the reason for his fall: his overweening pride in the merit of his virtuous acts and his self-love:

“Ill deeds cancel good deeds.
Pride is the road to hell…..
I was virtuous once---
All gone-- irrevocably.”[21]

It is, therefore, not enough to be virtuous. Once must also be wise:

“Be wise and virtuous--- learn from me/who finds heaven?”

Here it is important to recall that Yayati need not have learned all this the hard way. His father was Nahusha, the only human selected by the gods to rule over them. The power surrendered by the gods to Nahusha is manipulated by him into a means for satiating his craving for Indra’s wife. Those qualities of head and heart which had led the devas to elect Nahusha to rule over them are submerged in the tidal waves of arrogance and lust that obliterate all nobility and lead to loss of the celestial throne. Strangely enough, the son does not learn a lesson from his father’s predicament. Instead, he repeats that tragic tale of pride and lust and the doom to which they drive men, particularly those who wield power over others. Yayati gives in to the advances of his wife Devayani’s friend-turned-maid Sharmishtha, daughter of the asura king Vrishaparva. The result is the terrifying affliction of instant decrepitude visited upon him by the furious sage Shukra. But the king is inveterately prey to the hungers of the senses, ad pleads pitifully with son after son to take on his senility and gift him youth for some time more. It is only Puru, the youngest, who agrees and inherits Yayati’s throne, with the people being summoned and explained at length why primogeniture has not been followed. Yayati frolics in the forests with apsaras till he realizes that desire cannot be quenched, and comes back to return Puru his youth, accepting his own senility. Yayati is extremely important to us as an archetypal symbol of Lust in Action, and his words to Puru pulsate with a wisdom born of anguish and tortured experience:

“Desire never ends,
Desire grows with feeding.
Like sacrificial flames
Lapping up ghee.

Become the sole lord of
The world’s paddy-fields, wheat-fields,
Precious stones, beasts, women –
Still not enough.

Discard desire.

This disease kills. The wicked
Cannot give it up, old age
Cannot lessen it. True happiness
Lies in controlling it.” [22]

What follows is of extreme importance to each of us imprisoned for birth after birth in “This earthly hell/which seems to offer no release” [23]. For, Yayati is Everyman who has reaped the fruits of his toil, but then falls victim to his innate hubris and loses all that he has so painfully built up, till fellow-men come to his rescue. This is the essence of the wisdom Yayati has extracted from his vastly varied experience of life here and in the hereafter, which he narrates as answer to the question, “Who finds heaven?”

He who has wealth yet does yajna,
He who is learned yet humble,
He who, knowing the Vedas, is ascetic.
Shun pride of wealth,
Shun vanity of Veda-knowing …
Power, effort, are vain and useless.
Fate is the lord—remember this,
And shun pride, and cast off grief. [24]

But from this fatalism, Yayati progresses to the equanimity celebrated generations later by one of his descendants, Krishna:

The wise are always equable,
Not sorrowing in sorrow, not rejoicing in joy…
O Ashtaka, I do not fear fear,
I do not grieve over grief. [25]

Yayati’s attack is squarely on pride:

The wise say: Seven gates,
Asceticism, charity, serenity,
Self-control, modesty, simplicity,
And kindness, lead to heaven…
Pride cancels all these..
Study, control of speech, respect
For ritual, performance of yajna—
These remove fear. Mixed with pride,
These four create fear, O king…
‘I gave so much,
I performed many yajnas
I am learned,

I keep my vows’ –
All vanity, all pride.
Fearful.
Give it up, absolutely. [26]

When we study Mahabharata for lessons in the use of power, it is three male figures who spring to mind side by side with three women. Bhishma is flanked on either side by Krishna and Karna. Similarly, Satyavati forms a trio with Kunti and Draupadi.

(contd.)

[G.Subramaniam]

The problem of islam is low level street rioting
Street rioting is how pakistan was achieved

Street rioting is how hindus get ethnic cleansed from every muslim pocket
including kashmir

Muslim street rioting is a function of local muslim demographics

Dilute them below critical mass and then you have a chance to do things like shuddi

A society that is too squeamish to breed 5 will not have the stomach to counter the slowly growing darul-islams

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Street rioting is how hindus get ethnic cleansed from every muslim pocket
including kashmir.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I do support the idea that Hindus should have bigger families. This can only be exhorted but not organized. We should not miss the fact that we have a secular Govt. who not only condone the burning of a traincar full of Hindus but make use of its full power to institute a crooked commission to create a finding that the Muslims were not responsible for the carnage and to turn the public reaction as a pogram conducted by Modi and his BJP govt. ABV had also treasonously sided with the secularists for he was more concerned about his gaddi. So, our priority is the overthrow of this secular outfit and the constitution that engenders it.

Without a secular govt. to condone their atrocities and guard their crimes, the Islamists' focus would be not to band together to assault the Hindus but on their survival as the Muslims. This in many ways would cause many muslims to re-examine their faith and embrace the ancestral religion. 'Arasan evvazhi, kudigal avvazhi'. (As is the ruler so is the subject).

[Guest]

Are there any statisticians/population experts among our members who can throw light on the causes that give rise to population. Also some specific study of Islamic countries and their population growth and unique causes relating thereto would be of immense help.

Somehow I get the hunch that the population explosion is caused by poverty and not the other way round.

[Pandyan]

<!--QuoteBegin-Savithri+Jan 16 2009, 03:43 PM-->QUOTE(Savithri @ Jan 16 2009, 03:43 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Somehow I get the hunch that the population explosion is caused by poverty and not the other way round.
[right][snapback]93293[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who's population explosion is caused by poverty? If you're referring to Muslims, then that is totally untrue since Muslims are more educated and richer than Hindus in Kerala, yet have a higher fertility rate.

[Shambhu]

Re Reason for muslim breeding

Producing offspring in large numbers is one of the religious duties of a muslim, so it is to them like telling the truth is to a hindu. Do it, and you are considered more religious. Plus muslims have easy outlets to send their brood to..like madrasas. They do not worry about college costs etc. And our govt obliges muslims at every step. So what is the reason *not* to breed? Nothing to do with poverty. More to do with koran.

[G.Subramaniam]

Breeding is the easiest form of jihad
Breed, and take over

Muslims manage to squeeze out 1 more kid than hindus of the same social level

[Guest]

<b><span style='color:red'>Mumbai Terror attacks - Dossier of evidence</span></b>

This is a scanned copy of the 69-page dossier of material stemming from the ongoing investigation into the Mumbai terrorist attacks of November 26-29, 2008 that was handed over by India to Pakistan on January 5, 2009.

Evidence 1

Evidence 2

Evidence 3

The complete dossier in the possession of The Hindu consists of 69 pages.

http://www.hindu.com/nic/dossier.htm