Attack in Mumbai -2

[Guest]

Demoralised DF doesn't even ask why intelligence failed
---
Kadam, Minister of the Co-operation Department, asked DGP A N Roy what had happened to the state Intelligence department. The minister, also in charge of the Relief & Rehabilitation department, questioned why the department had failed to gather any information about the terror strikes.

<i>But other members of the Cabinet were in no mood to raise any questions over the preparedness of the police that lost three of its best officers. Revenue Minister Narayan Rane said it was not the right time to raise such issues and "we should be united at this hour". </i>
The government machinery, taken completely by surprise by the terror attack, decided to call in the Army at 11 pm on Wednesday. After frantic calls to Delhi, senior Mantralaya officials requested National Security Guards (NSG) Commandos for the operation. Calls also went to Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh, who was in Kerala.

Deputy CM R R Patil, who was supervising the operation from his official residence at Malabar Hill, was requested by PWD Minister Chhagan Bhujbal to visit the DGP office at Colaba.

<b>Sources said though the plane carrying NSG Commandos was ready by midnight, it could not take off due to the delayed arrival of a VIP, who wanted to accompany them to Mumbai, at the Delhi airport. Worse, the Commandos had to wait for a vehicle at the Mumbai airport until morning. </b>

[Guest]

Nareshji, Building iron fence to take care of termite infestation in house is not the solution. Read Shourie's book on same title.
Besides, one can't wake up someone pretending to sleep.

Offstumped's summarized it well on his site:
Open Letter to All Party Meeting

[Naresh]

<b>Viren Ji :</b>

Many thanks your Post of Today 30-11-2008, 07:24 PM

I would put up the following measures for your comments :

1. No more “India Visit Visas” to Pakistanis or Bangladeshis or People of these Origins

2. No Pakistani or Bangladeshi Cricket or any other Sporting Teams to “Tour-Visit” India nor Indian Cricket Team or any other Sporting Teams to “Tour-Visit” these two Countries.

3. No more Pakistani Movie Actors, Singers, Dancers including the Mujhra Artists from Lahore’s Hiramandi, to be allowed to work in India.

This would make Pakistanis and Bangladeshis - in their Tens of Millions - to Force their respective Government(s) to meet the Following Demands of the Indian Government :

A : Stop all Terrorists of not only Pakistani and Bangladeshi but other Nationalities - Including Indian - to carry out any Terrorist Activity in India.

B : Have all Pakistani and Bangladeshi Illegal Immigrants in India to return to Pakistan - Bangladesh. <b>Last Year of those getting "India Visit Visas " over 10,000 Pakistanis and over 60,000 Bangladeshis did not return to Pakistan-Bangladesh. You must note that this is in addition to the Huge Number of Illegal Muslim Immigrants who enter India from Pakistan and Bangladesh</b>

C : Return Indian Terrorists including those from the Indian Underworld to Indian Government Custody.

Building an Iron Fence : Ultimately this is the only way we can stop the Illegal Muslim Immigrants from Pakistan and Bangladesh thereby not ending up with a Muslim Majority in the Eastern States as well as a part of Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan, Gujarat, UIP and Andhra Pradesh.

BTW : Its not about waking up those who are pretending to be asleep. <b>It is that one can wake up the “sleeping” but who can awaken those who are already “awake”!</b>

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Bharatvarsh]

Fences don't seem that effective if we go by US experience to stop illegal hispanic immigration, and it's easier said than done to deport the millions of illegal scum already there because they blend in well, have ration cards etc.

And this is the just beginning of the coming storm, with rising sea levels more and more of beggardesh will go under, and the resulting crisis will mean even more of them into India, maldives is already talking about buying up land in India or Aus because they claim that all their islands will go under soon.

One of the things the gov't could do while building the fence (which will slow down but not stop infiltration) is to do Israeli style settlements in mini beggardesh's of North East, this would mean taking Hindus from states with a very large Hindu majority who are poor (eg: orissa) and are willing to assimilate to the language of the new state and settling them there.

[Guest]

Nareshji,
Govt reaction is just useless, this is too little too late.

If I were PM -

1) I will send thieves in Paki Ambassador and ISI guy house and beat them up, make sure their jaws need surgeries for rest of their lives.

2) I will send mavallies into every elite Paki living in Mumbai, so that they never show up after their visit.

3) I will make sure, I will help Allah to have his Paki loving Srinagari Politicians, Imam surrounds him.

4) I will be cranky, irritated neighbor who will beam all type of programme on Paki houses, till they are demoralized.

These should be first step, I say starter

If they refuse to learn I will open and close dam gates on my own pleasure.
If they don't learn, I will throw something in Islamabad and will say I am sorry.

I will never stop talking with them. I will make their life living hell. Terrorist only understand language of terror.

[Bodhi]

Looks like the page-3 crowd may be waking up to reality? (before they go back to being stoned again?)

What could explain an explosion of anger on an NDTV show from Simi Garewal, a rather known Kangressi and once maker of a movie on Nehru dynasty? She had Barkha Dutt stunned when she asked her to just look around in the slums of Mumbai and notice the Pakistani flags hoisted all over. Recovering from shock after a brief moment, everyone pounced upon her.

[Guest]

<b>Doctors shocked at hostages's torture</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The other doctor, who had also conducted the post-mortem of the victims, said: "Of all the bodies, the Israeli victims bore the maximum torture marks. It was clear that they were killed on the 26th itself. It was obvious that they were tied up and tortured before they were killed. It was so bad that I do not want to go over the details even in my head again," he said.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Bodhi]

<span style='color:red'>SURPRISED?</span>
Arun Shourie

"Our coastal areas are coming under increased threat from terrorist groups, which have decided to use the sea route to infiltrate into India. They also plan to induct arms and ammunition through the sea routes" – that is Shivraj Patil addressing the Directors General and Inspectors General of Police in November 2006. "We understand they (the terrorists) have been collecting information regarding location of various refineries on or near the Indian coastline… Some Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) operatives are also being trained specifically for sabotage of oil installations. There are plans to occupy some uninhabited islands off the country's coastline to use them as bases for launching operations on the Indian coast…"

That was the ever-alert Home Minister in November 2006. The Minister of Defence has been no less alert. On 8 March 2007, he was asked in the Lok Sabha, "Whether the intelligence agencies have warned about the possibility of terrorists trying to infiltrate through the sea route or trying to target our offshore installations?" He answered, "Yes, Sir. There are reports about terrorists of various tanzeems being imparted training and likelihood of their infiltration through sea routes…" He was asked, "Whether maritime terrorism, gun-running, drug-trafficking and piracy are major threats that India is facing from the sea borders of the country?" His answer? "Yes, Sir."

On 9 May 2007, the Home Minister was asked in the Rajya Sabha, "Whether it is a fact that there are strong apprehensions of terrorist threats to the country through the sea route?" "As per available reports," he answered, "Pak based terrorist groups, particularly LeT, have been exploring possibilities of induction of manpower and terrorist hardware through the sea route…"

On 8 December, 2007, the National Security Adviser, M.K. Narayanan, was educating the world at the 4th Regional Security Summit organized by the International Institute of Strategic Studies, the Manama Dialogue. "According to our intelligence reports," he confided to the assembled Sheikhs and experts, "there are now certain new schools that are now being established on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, which now specialize in the training of an international brigade of terrorists to fight in many climes. According to our information, recruits from 14 to 15 countries have been identified as amongst the trainees there… Training has become extremely rigorous – it is almost frightening in nature… Studies are being carried out about important targets, with regard to vulnerability, accessibility, poor security, absence of proper counter-terrorism measures, etc. The sea route, in particular, is becoming the chosen route for carrying out many attacks, even on land. References to this are to be found replete in current terrorist literature." "Given India's experience in dealing with terrorism," he added, "I would like to therefore sound a note of warning, that there is no scope for complacency…"

On 11 March, 2008, A.K. Antony addressed the "International Maritime Search and Rescue Conference," in Delhi. He warned the delegates of "dangers of terror attacks from the sea in the region." In the course of his address, Antony admitted that the Coast Guard faces shortage of manpower as well as hardware. But "Necessary steps are being taken to strengthen the search and rescue infrastructure of the Indian Coast Guard…"

On 13 November, 2008, just a fortnight before the assaults at Mumbai, Manmohan Singh warned the BIMSTEC summit, "Terrorism and threats from the sea continue to challenge the authority of the State…"

By now it was time for Shivraj Patil to address yet another meeting of the DGs and IGs of Police. Thus on 22 November, 2008, that is literally on the eve of the attacks in Mumbai, he told the Police chiefs, "To control terrorism in the hinterland, we have to see that infiltration of terrorists from other countries does not take place through the sea routes and through the borders between India and friendly countries. The coastlines also have to be guarded through Navy, Coast Guard and coastal police. The states' Special Branches and the CID should identify the persons forming part of the sleeper cells and lodging in cities and towns and studying in educational institutions and working in industries and professions…"

And four days later, the terrorists, using the exact same sea route, do the exact same thing that these worthies have been warning others about. Are they consultants to Government or ones running the Government? Is their job to issue warnings to others or to see that the warnings are acted upon?

Warning given, the job is done

But that is the fate of warnings in this system. After all, that very sea route was used to smuggle explosives for the blasts across Bombay in 1993. Were those blasts not warning enough?

Seven years later – in 2000 -- the warning and lesson were made explicit yet again. Four Task Forces were set up in the wake of the Kargil War. The one on Border Management warned, "The long coastline with its inadequate policing makes it easy to land arms and explosives at isolated spots on the coast." It recalled that this is exactly how explosives were smuggled into Maharashtra in 1993. "The situation, if anything, has worsened over the years with the activities of the ISI becoming more widespread along the coast particularly by extension into the coast of Kerala… Such coastal areas must be particularly kept under surveillance."

There is space here to cite just one example. The Task Force pointed out that the ISI had started using the Lakshadweep archipelago as a major staging point for smuggling arms and personnel into India. The agency used smugglers and their networks – like Dawood Ibrahim and his tentacles – and their routes for doing so. These dons and their networks were given shelter and support in return for helping the agency with its operations against India.

Now, Lakhsdweep has 36 islands. Ten of these are inhabited. Talking of one of these islands – Suheli -- the Task Force pointed out that, sea vessels of smugglers apart, "there have been instances of twin rotor helicopters (of the kind used by militaries) landing at Suheli Island and spotting of unidentified helicopters flying in the waters around the islands…"

And what were we doing? "Intelligence gathering in the islands," the Task Force recorded, "is carried out by one Inspector, one Sub Inspector, one Head Constable and three Constables working in the Special Branch at Kavaratti" – just one of the 36 islands. "Intelligence gathering in all other islands is carried out by one Head Constable/Constable who reports to the OIC (the Officer in Charge) of the police station who in turn passes it on to the Inspector (Special Branch) at Kavaratti."

Please read that again: 36 islands; one Inspector, one Sub Inspector, one Head Constable and three Constables on the main island; and one Head Constable/Constable for all the remaining 35 islands…

What has happened since, what is the position today, I ask the person who has held the highest posts in intelligence. Exactly what it was then, he says, with one difference. With the up gradation of all posts, the Inspector (Special Branch) at Kavaratti is now designated not as Officer in Charge, but as Joint Assistant Director or Deputy Central Intelligence Officer depending on his cadre… As for the other recommendations – patrolling, setting up sensors, and a host of others – things are as they were.

And we are surprised!

I can multiply such examples by the score at no notice at all. Recalling just one thing will be sufficient. When, during a debate on national security in the Rajya Sabha, I began citing such passages from the report of this Task Force, shouts went up from the Congress, "But this is a secret report… How has he got it?... How is he citing it?..." Shivraj Patil remained his composed self, eventually chiding me with the sagacity which even terrorists have by now come to associate with him.

Things to do

First, act on recommendations that are made by committees you set up.

Second, that will not happen unless we send a better type into legislatures and, thence, to governments. When we select leaders who treat the police as their private army; when we select leaders for whom investigating agencies are instruments to fix rivals or let off allies, don't expect the police and agencies to suddenly turn around and forestall terrorists.

Third, remember that little can be achieved unless every aspect of governance, is brought up to par. You can't have a first-rate commando force and a third rate magistracy. You can't have defence and intelligence personnel who will nab terrorists and courts that will let them off, or, better still, enable them to live off the Treasury as State Guests for years. And that excellence must reach down to that "Head Constable/Constable" level. When Mr. K.P.S. Gill reconquered Punjab for the country, he did so by strengthening and invigorating the local thana.

Fourth, that the State of India is weak and has been weakened and is being weakened by the day is only one part of the explanation. A weakened and confused society explains as much – and the responsibility lies as much with those who have dissipated national resolve, who have made nationalism a dirty word. That set includes the media as much as politicians. Sixty-seventy thousand killed by terrorism and we are still debating whether we should have a federal investigating agency. Sixty-seventy thousand killed by terrorists and we are still debating whether we should have a special law to bring them to book.

Of course, we must have the agency. Of course, we must have the sternest law in the world. But having the law is not enough. We must enforce it. One side of the picture is that, to pander to its vote bank among Muslims, the Government has been withholding sanction to the law passed by the Gujarat Assembly – even though that law is the exact replica of the law that its own party's Government has passed in adjacent Maharashtra. The other side is that, as the Maharashtra Government does not use the law it has, those who will give shelter and support to terrorists give them with abandon – you just have to think of the quantum of weapons that the terrorists brought in; the detailed local knowledge they had – of the spot at which to land their boats, of the location of the building in which Jews and Israelis were staying, of the insides of the hotels, to see that they could not have executed their plans without the most extensive local help, help given over months.

And enforcing the law means carrying out sentences that the law provides. The Parliament of India is attacked, guards are killed; one of the killers is tried and convicted, the sentence is confirmed by the Supreme Court, and, eight years after the assault, his "papers are still being processed," indeed there are signature campaigns against executing the sentence. Given these circumstances, the best thing for a terrorist to succeed in his mission, and then get caught. He will get the best lawyers to defend him. He will get judges who are ever so solicitous about his rights, ever so finicky about procedures. And, of course, he will get activists to shoot off press statements on his behalf. Lawyers better, judges more solicitous, activists more articulate and better networked than any in his own country.

But for any of this to happen, the society has to be clear in its mind. This is, it has for 20 years been, war. It can be won only by overwhelming the adversary – not by running after the terrorist, as K.P.S. Gill says, but by out-running him, indeed by over-running him. Not an eye for an eye. For an eye, both eyes. Not a tooth for a tooth. For a tooth, the whole jaw. Human rights? Yes, we will respect the human rights of the terrorists and their sponsors and their local supporters to the extent that they respect the human rights of our people.

Finally, have a clear realization of the condition of the society and State of Pakistan. Unless you come across evidence that the nature of the State and society of Pakistan has changed, it is idiotic to put faith in the profession of this ruler or that. Remember Musharraf's "Main naya dil leyke aayaa hun"? Taliban and Al Qaeda are not the cause of the state of Pakistan. They are the result of the Talibanization of Pakistani society and State.

Where do you think, and by whom do you think are the teachers instructed to ensure that students from Class 1 onwards "recognize the importance of jihad"; to ensure that they "must be aware of the blessings of jihad"; to ensure that they "create yearning for jihad in his heart"; to ensure that they develop "love and aspiration for jihad, tabligh, shahadat, sacrifice, ghazi, shaheed"? Where do you think, and by whom are teachers instructed to ensure that students from kindergarten onwards learn to "make speeches on jihad and shahadat", and are "judged on their spirit while making speeches on jihad"?

Do you think these are instructions issued by the Islamic fundamentalists to maulvis in madrasas? They are instructions given by the Government of Pakistan through official circulars to principals and teachers in government schools of Pakistan.

You didn't know that? Exactly. That is a large part of the problem. You will find reams of these and other facts in the 2002 report edited by Pakistani academics, A.H. Nayyar and Ahmed Salim, and published by the Sustainable Development Institute, Islamabad, The Subtle Subversion: The state of curricula and textbooks in Pakistan, Urdu, English, Social Studies and Civics.

Get on to the Internet, download and read the report from www.sdpi.org. Here is a part of the problem that you can solve by yourself.

As for the rest of the problem, I suppose we must continue to rely on Shivraj Patil. And on him who is to the Government what Shivraj Patil is to the Home Ministry, that is the Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh.

[Bodhi]

^Arun Shourie's hard hitting masterpiece

email:

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='color:red'>Hotel Taj: Icon of whose India? </span>
<b>by Gnani Sankaran-</b>

Watching at least four English news channels surfing from one another during the last 60 hours of terror strike made me feel a terror of another kind. The terror of assaulting one's mind and sensitivity with cameras, sound bites and non-stop blabbers. All these channels have been trying to manufacture my consent for a big lie called - Hotel Taj the icon of India.
Whose India, Whose Icon ?

It is a matter of great shame that these channels simply did not bother about the other icon that faced the first attack from terrorists - the Chatrapathi Shivaji Terminus (CST) railway station. CST is the true icon of Mumbai. It is through this railway station hundreds of Indians from Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Rajasthan, West Bengal and Tamilnadu have poured into Mumbai over the years, transforming themselves into Mumbaikars and built the Mumbai of today along with the Marathis and Kolis

But the channels would not recognise this. Nor would they recognise the thirty odd dead bodies strewn all over the platform of CST. No Barkha dutt went there to tell us who they were. But she was at Taj to show us the damaged furniture and reception lobby braving the guards. And the TV cameras did not go to the government run JJ hospital to find out who those 26 unidentified bodies were. Instead they were again invading the battered Taj to try in vain for a scoop shot of the dead bodies of the page 3 celebrities.

In all probability, the unidentified bodies could be those of workers from Bihar and Uttar Pradesh migrating to Mumbai, arriving by train at CST without cell phones and pan cards to identify them. Even after 60 hours after the CST massacre, no channel has bothered to cover in detail what transpired there.

The channels conveniently failed to acknowledge that the Aam Aadmis of India surviving in Mumbai were not affected by Taj, Oberoi and Trident closing down for a couple of weeks or months. What mattered to them was the stoppage of BEST buses and suburban trains even for one hour. But the channels were not covering that aspect of the terror attack. Such information at best merited a scroll line, while the cameras have to be dedicated for real time thriller unfolding at Taj or Nariman bhavan.

The so called justification for the hype the channels built around heritage site Taj falling down (CST is also a heritage site), is that Hotel Taj is where the rich and the powerful of India and the globe congregate. It is a symbol or icon of power of money and politics, not India. It is the icon of the financiers and swindlers of India. The Mumbai and India were built by the Aam Aadmis who passed through CST and Taj was the oasis of peace and privacy for those who wielded power over these mass of labouring classes. Leopold club and Taj were the haunts of rich spoilt kids who would drive their vehicles over sleeping Aam Aadmis on the pavement, the Mafiosi of Mumbai forever financing the glitterati of Bollywood (and also the terrorists) , Political brokers and industrialists.

It is precisely because Taj is the icon of power and not people, that the terrorists chose to strike.

The terrorists have understood after several efforts that the Aam Aadmi will never break down even if you bomb her markets and trains. He/she was resilient because that is the only way he/she can even survive.

Resilience was another word that annoyed the pundits of news channels and their patrons this time. What resilience, enough is enough, said Pranoy Roy's channel on the left side of the channel spectrum. Same sentiments were echoed by Arnab Goswami representing the right wing of the broadcast media whose time is now. Can Rajdeep be far behind in this game of one upmanship over TRPs ? They all attacked resilience this time. They wanted firm action from the government in tackling terror.

The same channels celebrated resilience when bombs went off in trains and markets killing and maiming the Aam Aadmis. The resilience of the ordinary worker suited the rich business class of Mumbai since work or manufacture or film shooting did not stop. When it came to them, the rich shamelessly exhibited their lack of nerves and refused to be resilient themselves. They cry for government intervention now to protect their private spas and swimming pools and bars and restaurants, similar to the way in which Citibank, General Motors and the ilk cry for government money when their coffers are emptied by their own ideologies.

The terrorists have learnt that the ordinary Indian is unperturbed by terror. For one whose daily existence itself is a terror of government sponsored inflation and market sponsored exclusion, pain is something he has learnt to live with. The rich of Mumbai and India Inc are facing the pain for the first time and learning about it just as the middle classes of India learnt about violation of human rights only during emergency, a cool 28 years after independence.

And human rights were another favourite issue for the channels to whip at times of terrorism.

Arnab Goswami in an animated voice wondered where were those champions of human rights now, not to be seen applauding the brave and selfless police officers who gave up their life in fighting terorism. Well, the counter question would be where were you when such officers were violating the human rights of Aam Aadmis. Has there ever been any 24 hour non stop coverage of violence against dalits and adivasis of this country?

This definitely was not the time to manufacture consent for the extra legal and third degree methods of interrogation of police and army but Arnabs don't miss a single opportunity to serve their class masters, this time the jingoistic patriotism came in handy to whitewash the entire uniformed services.

The sacrifice of the commandos or the police officers who went down dying at the hands of ruthless terrorists is no doubt heart rending but in vain in a situation which needed not just bran but also brain. Israel has a point when it says the operations were misplanned resulting in the death of its nationals here.

Khakares and Salaskars would not be dead if they did not commit the mistake of traveling by the same vehicle. It is a basic lesson in management that the top brass should never t ravel together in crisis. The terrorists, if only they had watched the channels, would have laughed their hearts out when the Chief of the Marine commandos, an elite force, masking his face so unprofessionally in a see-through cloth, told the media that the commandos had no idea about the structure of the Hotel Taj which they were trying to liberate. But the terrorists knew the place thoroughly, he acknowledged.

Is it so difficult to obtain a ground plan of Hotel Taj and discuss operation strategy thoroughly for at least one hour before entering? This is something even an event manager would first ask for, if he had to fix 25 audio systems and 50 CCtvs for a cultural event in a hotel. Would not Ratan Tata have provided a plan of his ancestral hotel to the commandos within one hour considering the mighty apparatus at his and government's disposal? Are satelite pictures only available for terrorists and not the government agencies ? In an operation known to consume time, one more hour for preparation would have only improved the efficiency of execution.

Sacrifices become doubly tragic in unprofessional circumstances. But the Aam Aadmis always believe that terror-shooters do better planning than terrorists. And the gullible media in a jingoistic mood would not raise any question about any of these issues.

They after all have their favourite whipping boy - the politician the eternal entertainer for the non-voting rich classes of India.

Arnabs and Rajdeeps would wax eloquent on Nanmohan Singh and Advani visiting Mumbai separately and not together showing solidarity even at this hour of national crisis. What a farce? Why can't these channels pool together all their camera crew and reporters at this time of national calamity and share the sound and visual bites which could mean a wider and deeper coverage of events with such a huge human resource to command? Why should Arnab and Rajdeep and Barkha keep harping every five minutes that this piece of information was exclusive to their channel, at the time of such a national crisis? Is this the time to promote the channel? If that is valid, the politician promoting his own political constituency is equally valid. And the duty of the politican is to do politics, his politics. It is for the people to evaluate that politics.
And terrorism is not above politics. It is politics by other means.

To come to grips with it and to eventually eliminate it, the practice of politics by proper means needs constant fine tuning and improvement. Decrying all politics and politicians, only helps terrorists and dictators who are the two sides of the same coin. And the rich and powerful always prefer terrorists and dictators to do business with.

Those caught in this crossfire are always the Aam Aadmis whose deaths are not even mourned - the taxi driver who lost the entire family at CST firing, the numerous waiters and stewards who lost their lives working in Taj for a monthly salary that would be one time bill for their masters.

Postscript: In a fit of anger and depression, I sent a message to all the channels, 30 hours through the coverage. After all they have been constantly asking the viewers to message them for anything and everything. My message read: I send this with lots of pain. All channels, including yours, must apologise for not covering the victims of CST massacre, the real mumbaikars and aam aadmis of India. Your obsession with five star elite is disgusting. Learn from the print media please. No channel bothered. Only srinivasan Jain replied: you are right. We are trying to redress balance today. Well, nothing happened till the time of writing this 66 hours after the terror attack.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Bodhi]

^

<b>Attackers trained by special forces: Russian expert</b>

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Moscow: A top Russian counter-terrorism expert today underlined that the Mumbai attackers were not "ordinary terrorists" and were probably trained by the special operations forces set up in Pakistan by the US intelligence prior to the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan.

"Behind this terrorist attack there are 'Green Flag' special operations forces, which were created by the Americans in Pakistan, just an year before the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan, and in the initial period were under full US control," stressed Klyukin, a veteran of the special "Vympel" commando group of the former Soviet KGB.

He said that for such guerrilla operations at least two-three years of preparatory work with the involvement of experienced instructors is required. Klyukin did not rule out that the Mumbai attackers could have taken part in similar attacks in other regions.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Bodhi]

e-mail. important journalist.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In contrast to the praise heaped on Hemant Karkare, the secularists
do no such thing with respect to the killing of Inspector Mohan Chand
Sharma by the Islamic terrorist in the Batala House encounter in Delhi.
In fact, they allege that he was most probably killed by police bullets.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

<b>Slain commando's father snubs Kerala CM</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Faced with criticism for delay in showing respect to slain NSG commando Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan, Kerala Chief Minister V S Achuthanandan on Sunday called on the soldier's family members in Bangalore, but a depressed father of Sandeep declined to accept his condolences.

The opposition parties in Kerala have accused the state government of having shown disrespect to the Kerala-born soldier, who lost his life while combating terrorists in Mumbai, by not sending any minister to his funeral, attended by a large number of people, including Karnataka Chief Minister B S Yeddyurappa, in Bangalore on Saturday.

Achutanandan accompanied by Home Minister Kodiyeri Balakrishnan rushed to the city this evening.

As Sandeep's father Unnikrishnan remained firm that no politician should enter his house and refused to meet the dignatories from his own state, police persuaded Dhanalakshmi, mother of the slain commando, to talk to the guests

<span style='color:red'>Sources close to Unnikrishnan said he even went to the extent of issuing a threat that he would commit suicide if any politician entered his house.

He had told his friends that his son, whose valour was witnessed by the entire country, did not belong to Kerala alone but to the entire nation.

Unnikrishnan refused to allow police sniffer dogs into the house when security personnel came there ahead of the Kerala Chief Minister's visit to perform their duties.
</span>
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&:cool--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/specool.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='specool.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

<b>Islamabad not behind Mumbai attacks: Abdullah </b>

he himself was behind, he should be kicked back to London.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Where are the other 5 killers?</b>
Pioneer.com
TN Raghunatha | Mumbai
Are more terrorists holed up in Mumbai?
That seems to be the case if one were to go by the claim reportedly made during his interrogation by LeT operative Ajmal Amir Kasab — the only terrorist arrested in connection with the Mumbai attack — that as many as 15 terrorists came to the metropolis ahead of the attack. Given that nine terrorists have been killed and one has been arrested, there are still five terrorists left. Where are they?

The State Government had initially pegged the number of terrorists involved in the attack at anywhere between 10 and 12. It subsequently scaled up the number of terrorists involved in the attack to anywhere between 20 and 25.

By the time the National Security Guard (NSG) commandos wrapped up their 60-hour-long “Operation Black Tornado” on Saturday morning, the number of terrorists killed in the attack was put at nine, while the authorities said that Kasab was the lone terrorist arrested in connection with the attack.

Considering that the investigating officials have conceded that Kasab is singing during his interrogation, can’t his reported claim that 15 terrorists came to Mumbai ahead of the Mumbai attack, which began on the night of November 26, 2008, be taken at face value?

In the event of the investigating agencies going by Kasab’s claim, there are still five more terrorists left to account for. Some or all of them may have either left the metropolis or would still be holed up somewhere within the city.

Much like the number of persons killed in the Mumbai attack, both in terms of the total number and place-wise break-up, confusion prevails as to how many terrorists came to Mumbai, how many actually took part in the attack, how many were killed, how many escaped and how many — if any — are still in the city.

For instance, NSG director general JK Dutt had initially said on Saturday morning that three terrorists had been killed in the Taj Mahal Hotel operation, but later in the night pointed out that his commandos found the body of another terrorist inside the hotel in the afternoon. This, in effect, means that the NSG was itself groping in the dark earlier as to the number of terrorists involved in the Taj Mahal Hotel attack.
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[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Govt shies away from blaming Pak</b>
Pioneer.com
PNS | New Delhi
The Government on Sunday developed cold feet in taking on Pakistan for the worst-ever terror strike on the country by refusing to link Islamabad with the Mumbai attack.

An all-party resolution on terrorism talked about plugging the loopholes in internal security and intelligence gathering but remained silent on Pakistan’s involvement. The BJP and Left, as well as the National Conference, called for a tough stand against Pakistan at the meeting chaired by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

While the BJP pressed for naming Pakistan in the resolution, the Left wanted the Government to built international pressure on Islamabad by producing the evidence against it before the United Nations Security Council. NC leader Farooq Abdullah wanted a ‘tit-for-tat’ policy towards Pakistan, but found little support from the UPA allies.

The UPA Government’s refusal to link Pakistan with the terror attacks is baffling because External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee has already gone on record blaming ‘elements’ within Pakistan for the Mumbai attack and even the Prime Minister conveyed similar views to his Pakistan counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani. Pakistan on Saturday snubbed Manmohan Singh by going back on its commitment to send the ISI chief to receive evidence about that country’s involvement in the terror attack.

The meeting failed to reach any consensus on a tough anti-terror law, with the BJP sticking to its demand for revival of POTA and the Government ready to only strengthen the existing legal framework to deal with terrorism.

Consensus also eluded the Government's move to set up a Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) to deal with terror investigations.

After a five-hour-long discussion, the Prime Minister said the nation stood united to fight terrorism and legal framework would be strengthened in this regard. "We will pursue the setting up of a Federal Investigating Agency within a time-frame," he said in his concluding remarks, promising the parties that the Government would get back to them within a fortnight.

When the BJP and AIADMK insisted on stringent laws like POTA to tackle terrorism, new Home Minister P Chidambaram said the Prime Minister had already referred to strengthening the legal framework. The Left parties opposed any "draconian" measures like POTA but were open to suggestions for strengthening provisions in the existing laws to combat terror.

The Government also came under attack from ally Samajwadi Party, whose chief Mulayam Singh Yadav said the ruling dispensation was weak and must own up responsibility. "Come out with something concrete within 15 days," Yadav told the Government.

In his opening remarks, the Prime Minister said the Government had decided to strengthen air and maritime security and create four NSG hubs in various parts of the country. Strengthening and augmentation of special counter-terrorism forces like the NSG would be done expeditiously and a legal framework would be formulated, he said. Sharing the country's "anger and outrage" over the Mumbai attacks, he appealed to the parties to rise above political considerations to meet the challenge unitedly.

Briefing newspersons after the meeting, Mukherjee said political parties unequivocally condemned the dastardly terrorist attack and expressed heartfelt sorrow and condolences to the innocent victims and paid homage to the brave security forces.

On the various measures to be taken by the Government, he said the scourge of terrorism would be fought with total determination and all means and measures to fight this menace would be made available.

Intelligence agencies would be tasked to provide specific pinpointed and actionable intelligence and creation of a new mechanism for establishing greater coordination among agencies of the Centre and states.

CPI leader AB Bardhan cautioned the Government against any "military misadventure" against Pakistan. The parties felt that the Government in Islamabad was weak but Indian action should not lead to strengthening of fundamentalist forces like the Taliban.

RJD chief Lalu Prasad made a veiled attack on the BJP for targeting ATS chief Hemant Karkare, who was killed while fighting terrorists, in connection with the Malegaon blast investigation.<b> In its turn, the BJP blamed the UPA's obsession with "Hindu terrorism" as one of the reasons for the ATS' failure to prevent the Mumbai attack</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These Commies are just SOB. Why Paki miss their homes? If Paki wants there home address or telephone, check local phone directory.

[ramana]

Can we have a page with the terrorists pictures and description so that future jihadis know their eventual fate?

Thanks, ramana

[Guest]

Mumbai Attack Undermines India’s Political, Economic Confidence

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-ramana+Dec 1 2008, 02:11 AM-->QUOTE(ramana @ Dec 1 2008, 02:11 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Can we have a page with the terrorists pictures and description so that future jihadis know their eventual fate?

Thanks, ramana
[right][snapback]91172[/snapback][/right]
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We can include Indian politicians faces also.

[ramana]

Mudy I have a special reason. We can have a guilty men of Mumbai terrorist attacks thread for those.

[Guest]

<b>Sahara to pay martyrs' families 5 times salary for 10 yrs</b>
Lets see whether Amar Singh buddy keeps his promise, I doubt.