<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes Huskyji- The Hindus have finally woken up . Read on:-
Quote
[...]
p.naveen@hindustantimes.com
[...]
Unquote<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Link to source document please. I don't web search unless I need to.
Christo-owned HT says one thing, and the accused another. Oh, who to believe? HT, which does have a tendency to lie through its teeth whenever it can, or people of whom we don't yet know what their lying habits are?
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/oct/25abvp.htm
via http://haindavakeralam.com/HkPage.aspx?P...306&SKIN=B
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Communists and church are defaming us: ABVP</b>
October 25, 2008 01:42 IST
<b>Strongly protesting against two news channels for their reports about Akhil Bhartiya Vidyarthi Parishad's (ABVP) alleged involvement in the Malegaon and Modasa blasts, the BJP's student wing today termed it a "conspiracy of the Communists and the Church to defame it".</b>
(Media wants to equate ABVP with SIMI, the students islamic mob of india)
Challenging the channels to prove reports that three persons, arrested by Maharashtra's Anti-Terrorist Squad (ATS) for Malegaon blast, had links with the ABVP, Madhya Bharat State Secretary Hitesh Shukla said they were only interested in dragging the student organisation's name in blast cases.
In a statement here, he said none of them was associated with ABVP and even ATS has said the same thing.
Shukla alleged that the relation of these channels with the Church was a known fact. They are the same people who, on the basis of alleged Naxal Arun Pareira's narco-analysis tests, had said that Naxals get financial help from ABVP, he said.
The ABVP leader said Maharashtra police had written to them clarifying that no such facts came to light during narco-test of Pareira.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->If the courts decide (not the Bannerjee kind), we will at last know they are guilty. Until then, can leave out the christomedia-type insinuations/assumptions on 'they must have done it'. Yeah?
We have a right to suspect islamoterrorists and christomilitants in various instances because they have a long and prestigious trackrecord of christoislami terrorism. And they are also famous for trying to palm off their handiwork onto others until they finally get caught.
But:
1. We don't yet know these people did it. Is the case over and closed yet - I thought they have to stand trial still, since the cops just picked them up? Else it's very prophetic of you to know beforehand that they are guilty.
2. I still don't know that these people aren't like Sandeep Pandey's hired goons impersonating Hindus to give actual Hindus a bad name
3. If they are not impersonators, I don't know that they did it for Hindu reasons at all.
In fact, is it known <i>why</i> they did it at all (speculations of christomedia is not necessary, want to hear the reasoning from the accused themselves, and only if they're not plants as in 2).
Rest of my views are still the same as in/still based on posts 3 to 5 above.
From your own post ravish (wherever you got it from):
The following is exactly the sort of speculation I can live without - the media either knows things for a fact or it doesn't. In the latter case, it should keep quiet. I never read tabloids precisely because I don't like gossip/junk:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Very little is known about either of these organisations as yet. The Rashtriya Jagran Manch (RJM) <b>is said to</b> have been formed after the July 3 communal riots in Indore this year in which eight people were killed. The Abhinav Bharat was floated by five disgruntled saffron workers after their expulsion from the RSS. It started functioning in Madhya Pradesh from May 2008.
[...]
The group had also been named following an attack on a Christian family in Jabalpur on August 3. Pastor Sam Oomen and his family were badly beaten up by a mob <b>allegedly</b> led by a vice president of Abhinav Bharati.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->By the Gods, if allegations were enough to condemn and convict people, everyone would be publicly tomatoed and then in prison now. HT can spare me the drama.
These small time crooks - <i>if</i> their involvement is at all proven in a court of law - do not prove any <i>Hindu</i> terrorist cell.
Islamaniacs attack and carry their slogans and lovenotes professing jihad, releasing some message or a video threatening jihad either before or after. While christos also openly declare things like Nagaland-for-chwist or do their convert-or-die routine (same as islamis) and publish anti-Hindu pamphlets meant to incite Hindus so that the christos can go and whine to their western christian bosses for more money and more sympathy (christian 'persecution' sobstories get sympathy votes from the ignorant international audience).
This bit from ravish's post again: "The Abhinav Bharat was floated by five disgruntled saffron workers after their expulsion from the RSS. It started functioning in Madhya Pradesh from May 2008."
Actually that sounds more like what Chandan Mitra recently wrote in The Pioneer about that <i>other</i> case where the media started croaking about Hindooo Terrrorisssm:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"The media has repeated ad nauseum that two Bajrang Dal activists got blown up while making bombs in Kanpur, deliberately overlooking the fact the persons had been expelled from the Dal 12 years ago and were probably involved in a conspiracy to settle scores with their tormentors in that organisation!"
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Therefore, ravish, I suggest you wait before making grand declarations like these:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->this first step of Hindu Jagaran<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->You already know they did it, do ya?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Hindus have finally woken up<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->So you're saying that now <i>all</i> Hindus have a hand in the crime?????? Actually, you could only be referring to yourself, I think, for making such a ridiculous statement in the first place (and even for contemplating it).
Where did the psecular howls of "terrorism has nooooo religion" and "noooo one of the minority is supporting the terrorists" go? Or are those arguments only to be used when christoislamaniacs commit their crimes for specifically gawdly reasons and the rest of their populace need to be exhonerated for wishing their more active members success?
Is this all the evidence the police have? (From ravish's post):
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Police were also searching for Ramchandra Kalsangra the brother of mobile seller Shivnarayan Singh Kalsangra, who is already under arrest - but failed to find him.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->So the dude ran away for being the brother of a mobile salesman. So what? Remember: only muslims have first claim on resources like laws (such as being considered innocent until proven guilty). <i>Even</i> when they're not quite so innocent. That's why MMS woke up from his beauty sleep to defend the islamoterrorist - whom the Australians still suspect for evidence that was sadly inadmissable in court and who was expelled without a returning visa - whose cousin was involved in that terrorist plot in the UK. The islamoterrorist who was then in Australia had been in contact with his cousin, and the Oz police & prosecution certainly seemed to think it was more than mere conversations involving trading halaal recipes.
More astounding evidence of guilt (is there something the media is not telling us):
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->ATS sources admitted that they had mistakenly named the âHindu Jagran Manchâ as being under their scanner. They had actually meant the Rashtriya Jagran Manch. Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur, the president of the Manch, has already been held for her <b>alleged</b> involvement in the blast. "Brochures we have collected indicate she is its president,â said an ATS source.
(So being the president of an org that is not yet even proven to be of a terrorist nature is now a crime too...)
The ATS also raided Pragya's <b>rented residence in Jabalpur on Sunday, but admitted to have found nothing incriminating.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->That last appears to be the greatest bit of evidence yet. That only goes to show how it is her *granny's* apartment which will be found to contain all the oozies and ak47s and explosive thingamajigs. Quick, get the granny before it snails away.
From the little I understood of the kind of convoluted stories these newspapers spin in order to make something sensational out of it, Sadhvi Pragya's motorcycle was involved. Hence Sadhvi was suspected and arrested. And they also found that she was the president of a group called Rashtriya Jagran Manch. Amazing.
Example of brilliant reporting of IE on Oct 24, 2008:
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/malegaon...-others/377519/
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Malegaon blasts: Murder charges on sadhvi, 2 others</b>
Public Prosecutor Ajay Mishra said the crime committed by the three accused was a âserious offenceâ and they were booked under charges of murder, attempt to murder and voluntarily causing grievous hurt under IPC Sections 302, 307 and 326 respectively.
Mishra said the <b>motorcyle used in the Malegaon blasts on September 29 in which five persons were killed belonged to the Sadhvi</b>. Besides having links with the BJP's student wing ABVP, she is <b>suspected</b> to be associated with the Indore-based radical Hindu Jagran Manch (HJM) <b>accused</b> of involvement in the blasts in Malegaon as well as in Modasa in Gujarat in which one person was killed. The right-wing outfit has denied the charge.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Look how they're now already dubbed 'right-wing outfit', 'radical' etc. by the same media
- which hasn't even giving us any soundbites/excerpts of their alleged radicalness such as exhortations to wage global - or at least just national - jihad
- and even though the arrested persons have not even been convicted of any terrorism yet.
It ain't a terrorist organisation until it is shown to have *committed* terrorism: Indian Express is shooting itself in the foot by racing to predecided conclusions before the verdict is out.
Next they can connect the creche Sadhvi was sent to when she was a 1 year old, and any dance academy she may have belonged to. (You know, because dancers dance by day and terrorista by night.)
And this Ajay Mishra is obviously not good at accuracy - something which prosecutors *ought* to be - as he throws accusations about one 'Hindu Jagran Manch' when even ravish's purported HT source was able to find out it was something called Rashtriya Jagran Manch that Sadhvi belonged to. I'm being harsh, perhaps it was only that Mishra couldn't read the script properly.
And look how <i>her motorbike was involved</i>, just as I had recollected (the sum total of their evidence against her apparently). Oh Wow. That's a really good plan: commit a crime with your bike to transport you there, and then leave it there for the police to find. Outside of islamism - where people aren't all too bright (there were some <i>really</i> comical cases of attempted islamoterrorism in Europe) - no one else would do that. Why didn't she just leave a picture and voice recording too, to make extra sure: just in case low-grade prosecutors like Anil Mishra couldn't manage to connect the bike with the crime.
Ravish, I've asked you once to provide supporting evidence for your opinions. Will have to qualify that, I see: it means that in this case, instead of pasting news reports containing no more than allegations, you post press releases of actual verdicts by the (non-Bannerjee-type) courts/representatives. Why am I so partial to the Hindu side in asking this?
I am not the kind of loser 'Hindu' who instantly accepts that 'The Hindoos did it' merely because christomedia say it. And I'm also not the sort of psecular Hindu who immediately thinks christoislamaniacs <i>couldn't</i> have done terrorist acts (in spite of their history of similar crimes) because they're the 'loving, peaceful' minority.
Everyone else is hyper-biased in favour of their own kind (even when they have no cause to be), why should Hindus be the only ones to be so psecular as to defend the indefensibles (at times, doing so even after these have been tried and convicted, like Afzal), while being the first to shout down our own before they've even been shown to be guilty.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Ravish: "We look forward to your valuable comment"<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Do you always address yourself with the Royal We, or is it that you wanted me to give you special consideration for any multiple personality disorder you may be suffering from? <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Quote
[...]
p.naveen@hindustantimes.com
[...]
Unquote<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Link to source document please. I don't web search unless I need to.
Christo-owned HT says one thing, and the accused another. Oh, who to believe? HT, which does have a tendency to lie through its teeth whenever it can, or people of whom we don't yet know what their lying habits are?
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/oct/25abvp.htm
via http://haindavakeralam.com/HkPage.aspx?P...306&SKIN=B
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Communists and church are defaming us: ABVP</b>
October 25, 2008 01:42 IST
<b>Strongly protesting against two news channels for their reports about Akhil Bhartiya Vidyarthi Parishad's (ABVP) alleged involvement in the Malegaon and Modasa blasts, the BJP's student wing today termed it a "conspiracy of the Communists and the Church to defame it".</b>
(Media wants to equate ABVP with SIMI, the students islamic mob of india)
Challenging the channels to prove reports that three persons, arrested by Maharashtra's Anti-Terrorist Squad (ATS) for Malegaon blast, had links with the ABVP, Madhya Bharat State Secretary Hitesh Shukla said they were only interested in dragging the student organisation's name in blast cases.
In a statement here, he said none of them was associated with ABVP and even ATS has said the same thing.
Shukla alleged that the relation of these channels with the Church was a known fact. They are the same people who, on the basis of alleged Naxal Arun Pareira's narco-analysis tests, had said that Naxals get financial help from ABVP, he said.
The ABVP leader said Maharashtra police had written to them clarifying that no such facts came to light during narco-test of Pareira.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->If the courts decide (not the Bannerjee kind), we will at last know they are guilty. Until then, can leave out the christomedia-type insinuations/assumptions on 'they must have done it'. Yeah?
We have a right to suspect islamoterrorists and christomilitants in various instances because they have a long and prestigious trackrecord of christoislami terrorism. And they are also famous for trying to palm off their handiwork onto others until they finally get caught.
But:
1. We don't yet know these people did it. Is the case over and closed yet - I thought they have to stand trial still, since the cops just picked them up? Else it's very prophetic of you to know beforehand that they are guilty.
2. I still don't know that these people aren't like Sandeep Pandey's hired goons impersonating Hindus to give actual Hindus a bad name
3. If they are not impersonators, I don't know that they did it for Hindu reasons at all.
In fact, is it known <i>why</i> they did it at all (speculations of christomedia is not necessary, want to hear the reasoning from the accused themselves, and only if they're not plants as in 2).
Rest of my views are still the same as in/still based on posts 3 to 5 above.
From your own post ravish (wherever you got it from):
The following is exactly the sort of speculation I can live without - the media either knows things for a fact or it doesn't. In the latter case, it should keep quiet. I never read tabloids precisely because I don't like gossip/junk:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Very little is known about either of these organisations as yet. The Rashtriya Jagran Manch (RJM) <b>is said to</b> have been formed after the July 3 communal riots in Indore this year in which eight people were killed. The Abhinav Bharat was floated by five disgruntled saffron workers after their expulsion from the RSS. It started functioning in Madhya Pradesh from May 2008.
[...]
The group had also been named following an attack on a Christian family in Jabalpur on August 3. Pastor Sam Oomen and his family were badly beaten up by a mob <b>allegedly</b> led by a vice president of Abhinav Bharati.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->By the Gods, if allegations were enough to condemn and convict people, everyone would be publicly tomatoed and then in prison now. HT can spare me the drama.
These small time crooks - <i>if</i> their involvement is at all proven in a court of law - do not prove any <i>Hindu</i> terrorist cell.
Islamaniacs attack and carry their slogans and lovenotes professing jihad, releasing some message or a video threatening jihad either before or after. While christos also openly declare things like Nagaland-for-chwist or do their convert-or-die routine (same as islamis) and publish anti-Hindu pamphlets meant to incite Hindus so that the christos can go and whine to their western christian bosses for more money and more sympathy (christian 'persecution' sobstories get sympathy votes from the ignorant international audience).
This bit from ravish's post again: "The Abhinav Bharat was floated by five disgruntled saffron workers after their expulsion from the RSS. It started functioning in Madhya Pradesh from May 2008."
Actually that sounds more like what Chandan Mitra recently wrote in The Pioneer about that <i>other</i> case where the media started croaking about Hindooo Terrrorisssm:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"The media has repeated ad nauseum that two Bajrang Dal activists got blown up while making bombs in Kanpur, deliberately overlooking the fact the persons had been expelled from the Dal 12 years ago and were probably involved in a conspiracy to settle scores with their tormentors in that organisation!"
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Therefore, ravish, I suggest you wait before making grand declarations like these:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->this first step of Hindu Jagaran<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->You already know they did it, do ya?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Hindus have finally woken up<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->So you're saying that now <i>all</i> Hindus have a hand in the crime?????? Actually, you could only be referring to yourself, I think, for making such a ridiculous statement in the first place (and even for contemplating it).
Where did the psecular howls of "terrorism has nooooo religion" and "noooo one of the minority is supporting the terrorists" go? Or are those arguments only to be used when christoislamaniacs commit their crimes for specifically gawdly reasons and the rest of their populace need to be exhonerated for wishing their more active members success?
Is this all the evidence the police have? (From ravish's post):
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Police were also searching for Ramchandra Kalsangra the brother of mobile seller Shivnarayan Singh Kalsangra, who is already under arrest - but failed to find him.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->So the dude ran away for being the brother of a mobile salesman. So what? Remember: only muslims have first claim on resources like laws (such as being considered innocent until proven guilty). <i>Even</i> when they're not quite so innocent. That's why MMS woke up from his beauty sleep to defend the islamoterrorist - whom the Australians still suspect for evidence that was sadly inadmissable in court and who was expelled without a returning visa - whose cousin was involved in that terrorist plot in the UK. The islamoterrorist who was then in Australia had been in contact with his cousin, and the Oz police & prosecution certainly seemed to think it was more than mere conversations involving trading halaal recipes.
More astounding evidence of guilt (is there something the media is not telling us):
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->ATS sources admitted that they had mistakenly named the âHindu Jagran Manchâ as being under their scanner. They had actually meant the Rashtriya Jagran Manch. Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur, the president of the Manch, has already been held for her <b>alleged</b> involvement in the blast. "Brochures we have collected indicate she is its president,â said an ATS source.
(So being the president of an org that is not yet even proven to be of a terrorist nature is now a crime too...)
The ATS also raided Pragya's <b>rented residence in Jabalpur on Sunday, but admitted to have found nothing incriminating.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->That last appears to be the greatest bit of evidence yet. That only goes to show how it is her *granny's* apartment which will be found to contain all the oozies and ak47s and explosive thingamajigs. Quick, get the granny before it snails away.
From the little I understood of the kind of convoluted stories these newspapers spin in order to make something sensational out of it, Sadhvi Pragya's motorcycle was involved. Hence Sadhvi was suspected and arrested. And they also found that she was the president of a group called Rashtriya Jagran Manch. Amazing.
Example of brilliant reporting of IE on Oct 24, 2008:
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/malegaon...-others/377519/
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Malegaon blasts: Murder charges on sadhvi, 2 others</b>
Public Prosecutor Ajay Mishra said the crime committed by the three accused was a âserious offenceâ and they were booked under charges of murder, attempt to murder and voluntarily causing grievous hurt under IPC Sections 302, 307 and 326 respectively.
Mishra said the <b>motorcyle used in the Malegaon blasts on September 29 in which five persons were killed belonged to the Sadhvi</b>. Besides having links with the BJP's student wing ABVP, she is <b>suspected</b> to be associated with the Indore-based radical Hindu Jagran Manch (HJM) <b>accused</b> of involvement in the blasts in Malegaon as well as in Modasa in Gujarat in which one person was killed. The right-wing outfit has denied the charge.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Look how they're now already dubbed 'right-wing outfit', 'radical' etc. by the same media
- which hasn't even giving us any soundbites/excerpts of their alleged radicalness such as exhortations to wage global - or at least just national - jihad
- and even though the arrested persons have not even been convicted of any terrorism yet.
It ain't a terrorist organisation until it is shown to have *committed* terrorism: Indian Express is shooting itself in the foot by racing to predecided conclusions before the verdict is out.
Next they can connect the creche Sadhvi was sent to when she was a 1 year old, and any dance academy she may have belonged to. (You know, because dancers dance by day and terrorista by night.)
And this Ajay Mishra is obviously not good at accuracy - something which prosecutors *ought* to be - as he throws accusations about one 'Hindu Jagran Manch' when even ravish's purported HT source was able to find out it was something called Rashtriya Jagran Manch that Sadhvi belonged to. I'm being harsh, perhaps it was only that Mishra couldn't read the script properly.
And look how <i>her motorbike was involved</i>, just as I had recollected (the sum total of their evidence against her apparently). Oh Wow. That's a really good plan: commit a crime with your bike to transport you there, and then leave it there for the police to find. Outside of islamism - where people aren't all too bright (there were some <i>really</i> comical cases of attempted islamoterrorism in Europe) - no one else would do that. Why didn't she just leave a picture and voice recording too, to make extra sure: just in case low-grade prosecutors like Anil Mishra couldn't manage to connect the bike with the crime.
Ravish, I've asked you once to provide supporting evidence for your opinions. Will have to qualify that, I see: it means that in this case, instead of pasting news reports containing no more than allegations, you post press releases of actual verdicts by the (non-Bannerjee-type) courts/representatives. Why am I so partial to the Hindu side in asking this?
I am not the kind of loser 'Hindu' who instantly accepts that 'The Hindoos did it' merely because christomedia say it. And I'm also not the sort of psecular Hindu who immediately thinks christoislamaniacs <i>couldn't</i> have done terrorist acts (in spite of their history of similar crimes) because they're the 'loving, peaceful' minority.
Everyone else is hyper-biased in favour of their own kind (even when they have no cause to be), why should Hindus be the only ones to be so psecular as to defend the indefensibles (at times, doing so even after these have been tried and convicted, like Afzal), while being the first to shout down our own before they've even been shown to be guilty.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Ravish: "We look forward to your valuable comment"<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Do you always address yourself with the Royal We, or is it that you wanted me to give you special consideration for any multiple personality disorder you may be suffering from? <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo-->