<!--QuoteBegin-thayilv+Dec 25 2008, 01:36 AM-->QUOTE(thayilv @ Dec 25 2008, 01:36 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Killing 'innocent' muslims in an encounter is that last thing we want to be seeing as doing. Remember the media war waged against the Gujarat police for the sohrabuddin sheikh encounter? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since when did "JeM" members become innocent muslims? Eliminate them if they are Pakis.
The same media campaign can happen even now that innocent or misguided muslims are being harassed by Indian forces.
<!--QuoteBegin-thayilv+Dec 25 2008, 01:36 AM-->QUOTE(thayilv @ Dec 25 2008, 01:36 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Killing 'innocent' muslims in an encounter is that last thing we want to be seeing as doing. Remember the media war waged against the Gujarat police for the sohrabuddin sheikh encounter?
It didnt matter that if he was guilty or not.
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Who is killing innocent? They were in jeep running towards Islamabad HQ and suddenly jeep skid into gorge near Sutluj.
Indian Media is already part of Jihad along with anti-India Congress Party. Anti-India Congress Party led by Sonia is new Jinnah Congress Party and joker is appointed Manmohan SIngh as PM.
The same media campaign was waged against MC Sharma after Jamia Nagar shootout. The ensuing media circus painted the police as villians.
To the Indian media it does not matter if they are pakis or not. As long as the belong to the minority community they need to be *protected*.
This is partly why we are not gonna see any great reprisals out of the Mumbai Terror attacks. The UPA does not want to upset its votebank. I dont think Antulay could have said what he did without approval from the highest echelons of the party.
In the meantime, the image of the police as a professional force is going for a toss (some may say thats already happened).
<b>Indian arrested in connection with Lahore blast</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"The accused was identified as Munir alias Satish Anand Shukla, a resident of Kolkata," TV channels quoted police sources as saying.
Some of the reports claimed that the arrested had earlier worked with the Indian High Commission in London
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When I heard this news, I told my friend, now Pakistan will catch Indian, I hope they blame some jholawala but hey ho they picked Kolkotta guy. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Now, lets see how Moron Singh will react, this is check mate. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->SUKKUR, Dec 24: <b>Continuous flow of water, carrying industrial waste, from Punjab to Sindh near Daharki has put the population at risk</b> against which farmers and activists of political parties held a demonstration and a sit-in outside the DCO Ghotki office in Mirpur Mathelo on Wednesday.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>India mobilises forces at border</b>
pioneer.com
<b>Kumar Uttam | New Delhi
After Pak Army replaces Rangers</b>
Close on the heels of reports that Pakistan has replaced its Rangers with columns of Army men in forward areas along its eastern borders with India, New Delhi appears to have started preparing to mobilise its forces in the west.
Well-placed Government sources have revealed to The Pioneer that <b>defence establishment has approached the railways to move arms and ammunition on a large scale to the border areas. The </b>Railways were approached with a request to make âmandatory arrangementâ so that <b>arms and ammunitions reach border areas in Rajasthan and J&K in case of an emergency, </b>an official said.
Sources said the Railway has given clearance to the proposal and has already begun moving more tanks, gun-mounted vehicles and ammunitions to border areas in Rajasthan through trains.
<b>According to reports, four trains have already left for Rajasthan since Wednesday midnight and at least a dozen more trains were ready to move if there was a call from the military.</b>
â<b>Defence set-up of the country always seeks clearance from the Indian Railways whenever there is a bulk movement of tankers, arms, ammunitions and other weapons required in the battlefield. This always indicates heightening of tension along the border and the war-like situation,â </b>Government sources said.
âWhen Railways are approached for such a movement of military trains carrying weapons and other eqyipment, it makes sure that there is no congestion in the traffic and the material reaches the spot in time. In such an emergency situation, passenger and goods trains give way to military trains,â sources point out.
<b>It is believed the move by New Delhi comes in the wake of reports that the Border Security Force (BSF) noticed âa lot of military movementâ across the international
border for the last few days.</b>
C Dhyani, DIG of Rajasthan frontier BSF, was on quote admitting it was not a normal practice some days ago and after escalation of tension between the two countries Pakistan has deployed more troops across border. India and Pakistan share international border in Punjab, Rajasthan and Gujarat. The borders are guarded by the BSF in India and the Pakistani Rangers on the other side
in peace time.
As per the war book, when hostilities break out, the BSF, the first line of defence falls back and the Army takes over and Pakistan also follows the same drill. However, the case on the Line of Control (LoC) is different as the border is disputed and the armies of both the countries guard the 750-km long LoC.
Meanwhile, intelligence sources have tipped off the Government about a similar military build-up across the border in some sectors of Jammu and Kashmir where Army men have replaced Pakistani Rangers along the line of control.
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<b>GIVE PEACE A CHANCEâ¦</b>by Narayanan Komerath
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->To appear in âStrategic Research Reviewâ Vol. 3,No.1, 2009
Abstract
The fact that global terrorism emanates from Pakistan is well established. This article uses the visible evidence of sustained, pervasive complicity and control by state entities to debunk the notion that ânon-state actorsâ outside the reach of the Pakistani state control global terrorism.
The role of the Pakistani state is to protect and profit from the terrorist enterprise, rather than to confront it. Foreign aid has gone mostly to benefit the personal interests of the Army leadership and to strengthen the state in shielding terrorist enterprise against external action.
The cognitive dissonance in the reports of Pakistan Army battle deaths at the Afghan frontier is easily resolved when one considers the Punjabi-dominated Pakistan government and Armyâs history and policy of repressing the rights and aspirations of Sindh, Balochistan, Pakhtoonistan and Balwaristan. The concentricity of âAl Qaedaâ and the Pakistani state is clear. To eradicate terrorism and bring about peace, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan must be broken into at least five independent provinces, too intent on protecting themselves from each other to be exporting terrorism. The removal of the central government would also remove the
protection that the global terrorist enterprise enjoys under Pakistani sovereignty. Options short of total war are explored to achieve the objective of bringing about lasting peace.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Read more... GIVE PEACE A CHANCEâ¦
KARACHI: The government has failed to keep its promise with the IMF and continues to borrow from State Bank of Pakistan (SBP) as in just last 15 days it has borrowed Rs 54 billion from the central bank.
According to the figures released by SBP, the amount of government borrowings has climbed to Rs410 billion during July 1 to December 13 while this figure stood at Rs356 billion on November 29
<b>OBARO : Federal minister for production Sardar Abdul Qayyum Jatoi said that if India thrusts war on Pakistan then half of Indian and <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>120 million of Pakistani population</span> would be wiped off.</b>
Speaking at a press conference in Dharki, he said that every thing is used in war and we would not sit idle if India attacks our country.
He said that India have to bear more loss in the war.
Sardar Abdul Qayyum Jatoi said that both countries are high alert. We do not want war but if it thrusts then situation will become worse.
<b>My comments :</b> In the above case the Indian Population would be reduced to 600 Million but the Terroristani Population would be reduced to 40 Million.
Going by Stupido Abdul Qayyum Jatoiâs Logic India should thrust war on Terroristan!
SWAT : A blast at polling station killed 22 and wounded several persons including 6 children and the police personnel that occurred in a school located at Shalbanday of Boner area here.
Sources said that the intensity of the blast was so strong that it was heard far and wide, while parts of the bodies were found at quite a distance. The injured are being shifted to the local hospital at a place called Dagar. Sources said that this explosion was the result of a planted bomb exploded through time device, however, the police as yet have issued no statement in this regard. Ambulances reaching the scene have started the rescue and relief operation.
It may be recalled that following the death of ANP MPA, Abdul Mateen Khan this provincial assembly seat had fallen vacant on which the polling was underway since this morning. Security forces have cordoned off the area and a search operation has started, while polling has been suspended
<b>Unreal to hope from Pakistan</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->One of the main casualties of this national anger is the belief that Pakistan and India have a common destiny. Bolstered by elaborate people-to-people contacts, cricket matches and cultural exchanges, <b>Prime Minister Manmohan Singh insisted at the NAM summit in September 2006 that India and Pakistan were co-victims of terrorism</b>. Coming within months of the Mumbai train bombings that killed 250 people, <b>this was an exemplary expression of dhimmitude.</b>
Days before the Mumbai attack, President Asif Ali Zardari repeated the hackneyed formulation that there was a part of Pakistan that was forever Indian and vice versa. Despite the anger in Indian official circles at the ISI involvement in the bombing of the Indian Embassy in Kabul,<b> liberal hearts melted instantly</b>. There was a flurry of punditry suggesting that Zardari was Indiaâs newest best bet after Pervez Musharraf.
Ever since the West threw its weight behind the peace process, the strategic community in India has been divided between those in search of the âgoodâ Pakistani and those who believed that Pakistan was inherently âbadâ. That there was a section in Pakistan disgusted by the drift to extremism and anxious to rekindle Mohammed Ali Jinnahâs vision of a modern, Muslim (but not Islamic) country, wasnât in doubt. <b>But, were these voices of enlightenment akin to the Good Germans under Hitler? Were they consequential enough to impose correctives on State policy? Or were they the âuseful idiotsâ expediently wheeled out during moments of international exasperation to tell the world that ordinary Pakistanis were innocent of crimes that were invariably the responsibility of someone else?</b>
The issue has come to a head in the aftermath of the 26/11 attack. Liberal Pakistanis still insist that they were as shocked and as outraged as Indians at the brutality of the terrorists. They may well be right. Yet, why has Islamabad been so squeamish in admitting that the Mumbai attack was an operation originating in Pakistan? Why has it equated the criminality of ânon-State playersâ with the sovereignty and national honour of Pakistan? Why does it take the spilling of Indian blood to unite Pakistan?
While the world was extremely generous in extending a helping hand to a fledgling democracy in Pakistan, it expected the democratic Government to responsive in addressing global security concerns. There was never any suggestion that either President Zardari or the late Benazir Bhuttoâs friends who occupy high office in Pakistan were responsible for either the Mumbai attack or the Kabul bombing in September. The finger of suspicion was always pointed at jihadi groups and ISI.
The feeling that Pakistan was fast emerging as the new epicentre of global terrorism and threatening the security of countries as diverse as Afghanistan, Britain and India, should have triggered a domestic churning. It should have offended the self-respect of Pakistani elite at least to hear their country described as a âmigraineâ.
Yet, there have been few voices of consequence from within Pakistan willing to tell the political and military establishment that enough is enough and that it is time to flush out the jihadis and the rogues who run them. Those who spent last summer telling the whole world that democratic Pakistan was bursting with exhilarating creativity that would leave India in the shade have abruptly chosen to maintain radio silence. All we have heard is vague talk about making steady, incremental gains in the fight against fanatics. <b>Like the Good German, the Good Pakistani has couched his acquiescence in either silence or sophistry.</b>
It is the sophistry that tells the tale of denial. After 26/11, there were many intellectuals from the South Asian diaspora eager to shed tears for a Bombay they imagined had perished in the fires at the Taj. They filled many column inches of iconic liberal publications. <b>Curiously, their remorse was invariably couched with gratuitous references to how badly India treated its Muslim minority, how Babri Masjid and Gujarat have kindled a fierce desire for revenge, and how Kashmir remains the core dispute</b>.
Cut out the mandatory allusions to the Sea Lounge at the Taj and the vibrancy of Bollywood, and you are left with the stark judgment: India had it coming.
<b>The Good German claimed ignorance of the concentration camps and the Final Solution. The Good Pakistani is better informed. He has seen the devastation of the Marriot Hotel in Islamabad; he has watched the siege of the Lal Masjid; and he has experienced the growing hold of religious bigots on Pakistani society. He knows what the ISI is all about much better than we do</b>. And he is too painfully aware that Pakistan is sleep-walking its way to disaster. Yet, when it comes to India, ordinary decencies have effortlessly yielded to the brusque message for India: You had it coming.
Earlier, the Good Pakistani was a social distraction, an embellishment of liberal Hindu self-flagellation and Indian Muslim angst. Today, he has become a red herring and a diversion from the urgent business of confronting the threat frontally. <b>With infinite patience India is still trying to not be beastly to the Good Pakistani. Our Establishment is still hoping Pakistani âcivil societyâ becomes truly civil.</b>
Itâs likely to be an indefinite wait. In the war on India, the Good Pakistani has invariably sided with a Bad Pakistan. Only the naïve and the foolish should be surprised.
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Yesterday, I was watching Band of Brothers and second last episode where US forces asked Good Germans who had no clue what is happening in concentration camp in thier own village to clean up camp and remove dead bodies of jews.
Time had come India should ask p-sec on media and jhola crowd of Roys, Chatterjees, Teesta , Babus etc to clean up railways stations, markets after every terrorist attack. That may put some sense on these brain dead human waste.
<!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo--> There's a place called *Boner* in Pakistan? <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This country is truly a source of great entertainment....
Are we certain this explosion in Boner was not premature?
Buner lies between 34-9 and 34-43 N latitude and 72-10 and 72-47 E longitude. It is bounded on the North by Swat District, on the West by Malakand Agency, on the South by Mardan District, and on the East by river Indus and Hazara Division.
<b>2. Pakistan will not be âDestroyedâ by âFoul Mouthingâ Indian Leaders</b> (Despite my being in total agreement that they are running around like âHeadless Chickensâ and behaving in an impotent manner as well as looking after their own selfish interests especially by way of âVote Bank â Reservationâ Policies-Poliotics.
There is a saying âGive a Thief Enough Rope and He will Hang Himselfâ.
Pakistan is being destroyed by its own Leaders and all I would suggest is India cut-off all âRelationshipsâ with Pakistan.
Pakistan will then Stew in its Own âMorning Evacuationâ or for that matter âOwn Evacuation at any Time of the Day or Night - Sundays & Holidays Includedâ
So our Clarion Call should be :
[center]<b><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>HELP THE PAKISTANI LEADERS TO KEEP PAKISTAN STEWING IN ITS OWN EVACUATION</span></b>[/center]
12-30-2008, 01:55 PM (This post was last modified: 12-30-2008, 07:36 PM by Bodhi.)
<b>India mulling offer of 120,000 troops for Afghanistan </b>
India ... is working on a proposal to make an offer, to the new Administration. We got the military details because the military was quick off the mark with a response. So today you should have the details of the formations etc. India is earmarking - in case the proposal is made and accepted. Nonetheless, when planning goes as far as to identify specific units, a force commander, and matters such as the battle-training schools will be set up, you have to see this is completely serious from India's view.
Warning on "Bombay 2, 3, 4": A source from Kabul warns Orbat.com that other Bombay-like attacks are coming and that certain sections of the Pakistani military are determined to push India-Pakistan to war.
Speculation on next Pakistani move on withdrawn troops We hear rumors that Pakistan will offer to return troops to the NWFP if the US pressures India to change the status quo on Kashmir more to Pakistan's liking.
We've heard of Red Herrings and can with authority say this is a Dead Red Herring. There is absolutely no chance India will compromise on Pakistan, unless Pakistan is thinking of allowing free elections in its part of the disputed state. India has just completed elections in the state for the umpteenth time, the turnout at 61% was higher than ever before and this was possibly the fairest election ever held there. This despite a boycott by the pro-secession parties.
Now before the usual western suspects start talking about this was not a free election, can we ask a question: would the US permit Washington and Oregon states to hold an election on secession? The day that happens, okay, you can come back and say the Kashmir election was not fair. Then you can explain to the Indians why they should allow a vote on secession of the whole state when except for the districts (counties) that make up the Valley, no one else wants to secede. So really this is akin to 40% of Washington/Oregon's counties they want to secede, but all of the two states will have to accept the verdict because these 40% hold a majority of the population.
Further, India has defeated the Pakistan-based insurgency. The Indians wouldn't negotiate anything even if they were losing the war, and they have won this phase, so what is there to talk about?
If this happens, Indian force going after Pakistan from the other side, nothing like it! In fact it is wise to have a "permanent" Indian base in Afghanistan -- for the security of mainland India.
War between nuclear-armed India and Pakistan over last month's militant attacks on the Indian city of Mumbai is seen as highly unlikely.
Nevertheless, with tension high and fiery rhetoric coming from various quarters on both sides, conflict between the neighbours who have fought three wars since 1947 cannot be ruled out.
Here is a look at some possible scenarios for Pakistan in the event of war:
War would bring a wave of patriotism and national unity, analysts say. However, the authority of the civilian government that came to power this year after nine years of military rule, and had been trying to improve ties with India, would be undermined as the military would take charge of key decision-making. - At the end of a war, assuming the country has not been flattened by Indian nuclear strikes, the government would be under huge pressure to deal with the economic consequences.
Efforts to establish stable and sustainable civilian rule could be set back years. - India could try to stir up trouble in regions such as the energy-rich province of Baluchistan, where Pakistan says India has been meddling for years in support of separatist rebels fighting a low-key insurgency.
Similarly, Afghans, perhaps egged on by close ally India, could revive calls for a greater "Pashtunistan" (Afghanistan has never recognised the border with Pakistan, imposed by British colonialists in the 19th century, which divided ethnic Pashtuns). - Such developments in Baluchistan and the Pashtun-dominated northwest would revive deep-seated Pakistani fears of the break-up of their country.
The Pakistani military would effectively give up its part in the U.S.-led war on terrorism, analysts say, as it pulls troops off the western border with Afghanistan, where they have been battling militants, and deploys them on the eastern border with India. - Pakistani Taliban militants have already said they would rally to help the Pakistani military in the event of war against India.
Pakistani efforts to rein in militant groups fighting Indian rule in the disputed Kashmir region would likely be reversed and the groups would be given a green light, or official support, to raise funds, recruit fighters and infiltrate India.
Public sympathy and support for militant groups would soar as they would be seen as national defenders against the "real enemy", India. - That would be the death knell for government attempts to convince a skeptical public that militancy has to be rooted out, and efforts to tackle it are for the good of the country and not just doing America's bidding.
War between nuclear-armed India and Pakistan over last month's militant attacks on the Indian city of Mumbai is seen as highly unlikely.
Nevertheless, with tension high and fiery rhetoric coming from various quarters on both sides, conflict between the neighbours who have fought three wars since 1947 cannot be ruled out.
Here is a look at some possible scenarios for Pakistan in the event of war:
War would bring a wave of patriotism and national unity, analysts say. However, the authority of the civilian government that came to power this year after nine years of military rule, and had been trying to improve ties with India, would be undermined as the military would take charge of key decision-making. - At the end of a war, assuming the country has not been flattened by Indian nuclear strikes, the government would be under huge pressure to deal with the economic consequences.
Efforts to establish stable and sustainable civilian rule could be set back years. - India could try to stir up trouble in regions such as the energy-rich province of Baluchistan, where Pakistan says India has been meddling for years in support of separatist rebels fighting a low-key insurgency.
Similarly, Afghans, perhaps egged on by close ally India, could revive calls for a greater "Pashtunistan" (Afghanistan has never recognised the border with Pakistan, imposed by British colonialists in the 19th century, which divided ethnic Pashtuns). - Such developments in Baluchistan and the Pashtun-dominated northwest would revive deep-seated Pakistani fears of the break-up of their country.
The Pakistani military would effectively give up its part in the U.S.-led war on terrorism, analysts say, as it pulls troops off the western border with Afghanistan, where they have been battling militants, and deploys them on the eastern border with India. - Pakistani Taliban militants have already said they would rally to help the Pakistani military in the event of war against India.
Pakistani efforts to rein in militant groups fighting Indian rule in the disputed Kashmir region would likely be reversed and the groups would be given a green light, or official support, to raise funds, recruit fighters and infiltrate India.
Public sympathy and support for militant groups would soar as they would be seen as national defenders against the "real enemy", India. - That would be the death knell for government attempts to convince a skeptical public that militancy has to be rooted out, and efforts to tackle it are for the good of the country and not just doing America's bidding.
Kishore, any reason this post could not have been posted in the Pakistan thread or Mumbai attacks thread?
Please spend some time reading/contributing to what's already out there unless you feel absolutely compelled to open a new one.
All: we'll have drive to clean up a lot of clutter that's accumulated over time. Please back-up, archives before we move it to trash folder.
<!--QuoteBegin-Viren+Dec 30 2008, 07:27 PM-->QUOTE(Viren @ Dec 30 2008, 07:27 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Kishore, any reason this post could not have been posted in the Pakistan thread or Mumbai attacks thread?
Please spend some time reading/contributing to what's already out there unless you feel absolutely compelled to open a new one.
All: we'll have drive to clean up a lot of clutter that's accumulated over time. Please back-up, archives before we move it to trash folder.
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Please accept my apology .I am not very familiar with the menu on this site and I will abstain any further posting and spend more time reading and learning from the enormous data compiled and the use of the menu buttons.
You may please shift this to which ever thread you feel is right or remove it. I must confess that I am getting intoxicated with the loads of information on this portal.
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> 
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo--> There's a place called *Boner* in Pakistan? <!--emo&