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Christian Subversion And Missionary Activities - 5
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In reality, Hinduism and Religion are Abhrahamic inventions <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I never agreed with the christian scholarship that claimed that the British invented 'Hinduism'. And this is a point of contention I have with Balagangadhara's saying something similar.

Whatever Hellenismos, Shinto, Tao and the rest are is what Hindu Dharma is. (It is not what christianism and islamism are, of course.)


<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Hindu civilization is more analogous to Western Civilization than Christianity alone. In other words it includes many Vedic Philosophies.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'd say
1. Hindu civilisation is analogous to the Hellenic civilisation
2. It includes more besides Vedic.
3. There's far more to it than only philosophy (am supposing the term is meant in the Greek sense)

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In reality, Hinduism and Religion are Abhrahamic inventions (Just the terms of course, as Vedic Civlization has existed for thousands of years before any Abhrahamic religion existed).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Again: there's more than Vedic.


<b>Anyway, what I think is the more important stuff:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In Europe and even in the U.S. and rest of the world, Non-religious movements are gaining in strength as people see the absurdity of organized Abhrahamic religions.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->But western atheism and agnosticism are not at all the same as the atheist schools in Dharmic tradition (including the Jaina and Indian Bauddha tradition).
Western atheists denounce all religion. They
- are specifically opposed to the idea of any spirituality (including concepts like aatman, anything special about nature) and also
- deny any use/meaning in <i>philosophy</i> (IIRC, this is discussed in internet infidels). While I've never been inclined to adopt others' philosophies for myself (aren't we all capable of answering life's questions for ourselves?), I respect the right of others to pursue established philosophical paths like the Greek ones.

If you mean that the <i>modern</i> non-religious movements in India that are similar to what exists in the west are Hindu - no, they're not. They may be humane and they may (hopefully) be okay with coexisting with Dharmic traditions, but they would be modern and not derived from Dharmic tradition if they are like those in the west. The indigenous atheist schools of thought are Hindu/Dharmic, not any modern ones that are (coincidentally) modelled along western lines. That does not mean such views won't be accepted - all live-and-let-live paths are generally accepted in Natural Traditionalist societies.
But unless something is a natural product of Hindu evolution, it is not Hindu by definition. (Cultural Hindus who have grown up to be atheist and are not antagonistic towards traditional Hindu paths, but are instead understanding/sympathetic towards all branches, tend to be Hindus I think, since it is like their own mental evolution and is not in conflict with established Dharmic tradition. This is my opinion.)
<i>Modern</i> Indian atheists - that is, the non-Hindu type - may be nationalistic and rightfully fearful of christianism/islamism, though some of them are quite antagonistic to anything Hindu. E.g. India's rationalist associations who are only interested in demasking 'swamis', Indian atheists movements that are specifically targeted at de-Hinduising Hindus, see for instance the Indian portion of the American PAM site http://positiveatheism.org/tocindia.htm. See the anchor text of the links on that page, particularly as you move further down.
The Gora and Lavanam persons (acquaintances of Gandhi) are quite antagonistic to Hindu Dharma.
http://www.positiveatheism.org/india/s1990a28.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Above all it was he who started and propagated the holding of cosmopolitan <b>dinners of pork and beef</b> as a means of eradicating the evil of caste prejudices and religious taboos of certain food.

No doubt Gandhi was a great force in the modern world and Gora was a Gandhian in many ways, except Gandhi's faith in God and traditional customs. Gora rejected the whole of Hindu Sanatana Dharma and Varnashrama Dharma, four-fold caste system, in which Gandhi totally believed and advocated as necessary aspects of Hindu religion and society and as a matter of fact for all societies.

In 1972 we organised a cosmopolitan <b>beef and pork dinner function</b> at Coimbatore. <b>Late Periar Ramaswamy, the iconoclast and octogenarian presided over the dinner function.</b> The Atheist couple from Andhra Pradesh Mrs. Saraswathi Gora and Mr. Gora were the guests and guest-speakers. It was a grand function. More than 700 persons participated. Some of them were couples. Mrs. Saraswathi Gora spoke of her experiences as an atheist, in chaste Telugu. Gora delivered his speech in English. Periar Ramaswamy, President of the function, who knew Telugu. English and Tamil, spoke in Tamil. Speeches kept the audience spell-bound. All the hearers knew Tamil. Some of them knew English and Telugu. The entire audience were really enthused. This function attracted a lot of youth to the atheist fold. <b>Mr. Gora and Mrs. Saraswathi Gora, born Brahmins</b> ... giving up their cherished age-old privileges and high caste status, plunging and allying themselves with common folk, and <b>participating in beef and pork dinner, are historic and were talked of as the magnificent achievement of atheist way of life. Late Periar Ramaswamy and Gora couple were my guests as usual. Periar and Gora moved like members of a family</b> and exchanged their views on several matters in sweet Telugu.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml9940.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I visited your web page after reading an article in yesterday’s LA Times about Christian missionaries being killed (four nuns raped) due to Hindu extremists fighting against cultural imperialism.
(The old christian fiction again.)
[...]
<b>Lavanam tells me that the Hindu government is the biggest evil to befall India since its independence in 1948.</b> I can only inmagine the differences that have ensued since the ascendence of the Hindu government. The Hindu government is so subtle that Moslems are “playing footsies” with it, and are likely getting favors such as immunity in return.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Apparently the congress govt is better because it is supposedly 'secular' (read: anti-Hindu)?
At least there's one good thing, I see that a *Hindu* atheist woman corrected some aspects about the above accusation, see http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml9031.htm

Anyway, the sort of modern 'Indian' atheism of Gora/Lavanam is of a very monotheistic tendency: of missionising and converting the heathen; and it is not an Indian style of atheism but christowestern. And in particular it is <i>anti</i>-Hindu. True, some of the Greek philosophers were quite ungenerous about the traditional Greco-Romans and their Gods, but their followers weren't so antagonistic to Hellenismos AND the Greek philosophical paths grew out of Greek Tradition itself. Whereas such christo-conditioned western-patterned atheism in India is the result not of Hindu Dharma but of contact with the modern west.

I have no issue with western atheism (although its certainty that there are no Gods and there is no spirituality at all is hard to verify), and I think western agnostics have a very sensible position. One exception: I don't like the 'missionary atheism' of the west, because it has a very monotheistic tendency and is indiscriminate in grouping all religions with the christoislamic ideology without even bothering to see that the other religions are in no way a problem to their existence. But for the christian west, atheism and agnosticism is to be preferred to christianism. Still, it's sad to see how christianism brought the continuation of their traditions and their mental/spiritual evolution to an abrupt end, and that post-christianism atheism/agnosticism is the only path they find they can take since they now are so un-attuned to return to where they left off.

In real life, many of my friends tend to be atheists and agnostics and they get along very well with me too (although, since they don't ask, they continue to assume I am an atheist like them <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo--> Of course, <i>I</i> know what <i>they</i> are and accept <i>them</i> without reservations.) They think open-mindedness and 'tolerance' is purely an atheist quality because they're only used to christianism and know of islamism. (In contrast, E Asians, being traditionalists themselves, immediately assess me correctly as a traditionalist too. They are no less open-minded than us Hindus. Feel truly at home with them. Interesting that whereas I'm not guarded about what my affiliation is - if asked about it - they are though: Taoists for instance will not answer questions on what they are depending on who is asking.)

Am comfortable with western atheists. But <i>modern</i> Indian atheist movements worry me. Indians have not lost all of their tradition the way the west has, so they have the option of choosing a traditional Hindu atheistic path; or alternatively, they can be completely like *non-missionary* western atheists: individual atheists completely detached from all religion. However, modern Indian atheist movements nevertheless tend to be particularly anti-Hindu (though they may not approve of christianism/islamism either). The missionary atheist movements generally take it out on the majority religion in any part of the world and on first consideration, that would be Hindu Dharma in India. But that doesn't quite make sense in our situation since - unlike the west which was terrorised by christianism - Dharmic society is not generally interested in pursuing atheists or being intolerant of others' path.

If Bharatam may not remain Hindu, I would prefer it to become atheist in the fashion of what much of Japan is, rather than anything else (let alone christoislamic). Japanese atheists are not anti-Shinto or anti-Bauddha, even though their atheism is not not derived from a mental evolution born of Shinto or Buddhism but due to external events in recent Japanese history. Whereas, in Bharatam, everything that is a result of christo-influence is anti-Hindu.
Actually, a non-Hindu atheistic Bharatam like that in Japan would not bother me at all. It is enough if christoislamicommunazi memes are no more in the world (missionising memes that are intolerant of others' ways of life and personal beliefs, and can't bear that someone *somewhere* holds different private views). Then I'd not really mind what Bharatam becomes. I know it can never be what it was, and that the christian world has left its indelible imprint despite everything, and has installed breakage/christowestern thought patterns already. Since change we must and already have, I hope we go the way of Nippon. But christoislamicommunism will never allow that of course. Just as christoism has its sights on Japan and even communism has been launching repeated failed attempts on the country.
For true freedom to exist in the world, terrorist memes must be destroyed forever. After that, what happens is up to a free humanity. Of course, I'd dearly have at least one Natural Tradition survive and live a full, uncompromised life. My money is on Hellenismos or Taoism.



HK quotation (found to the left at BJP to free Temples from Government Control)
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"In religion lies the vitality of India and so long as the Hindu race does not forget the inheritance of their forefathers there is no power on earth to destroy them"
Swami Vivekananda<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is more of battle of minds but still whit physical consequences.
Because good people dont spread good ideas the place is taken by wrong ideologies.
If buddhism was spread then it wouldnt be room for nazi to spread.
Just like a good scientific discovery is spread or an least as a publicity for a product the same the good ideas must be spread.
This is another meaning of-for bad to spread is enough that good people do nothing.
Dharma(morality) not just need protected but need propagated as well ,like an educational program.
Like Ashoka put moral stances on his pillars.
<!--QuoteBegin-Husky+Apr 4 2009, 05:54 PM-->QUOTE(Husky @ Apr 4 2009, 05:54 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In reality, Hinduism and Religion are Abhrahamic inventions <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I never agreed with the christian scholarship that claimed that the British invented 'Hinduism'. And this is a point of contention I have with Balagangadhara's saying something similar.
[right][snapback]96087[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A non-religios indian on the yahoo messenger:
what is the point to defend a tradition in which i dont belive?i dont see any point in wish tree or diwali
i like modern costume not the saree,i like rock music not bhangra or bhairav.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Your comment equating me to a provincial governor of the Neo-Roman Empire (Catholic Church) is meaningless.
*

That's not what I did. What I said is that the catholic cardinal will agree with you (he will). This can only be superficially, since it is the wording that will make him leap at the chance.
Christianism plays with words and uses it to appropriate and destroy. It therefore likes it when heathens give them an opening with unguarded wording.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Catholic's try to play games to include local traditions. I read about a Jesuit Missionary who went to China 400 years ago, he acted, dressed and spoke like a local Chinese, even took part in Chinese Religious rituals. In the end these games don't work anymore, we all know what they are up to. With Hinduism especially it can easily backfire for them in this area. Hinduism will end up swallowing them rather than the other way around.



<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In reality, Hinduism and Religion are Abhrahamic inventions I never agreed with the christian scholarship that claimed that the British invented 'Hinduism'. And this is a point of contention I have with Balagangadhara's saying something similar.

Whatever Hellenismos, Shinto, Tao and the rest are is what Hindu Dharma is. (It is not what christianism and islamism are, of course.)
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


The term "Hindu" was invented by the Islamic invaders?, but that doesn't matter now, we can use whatever word to describe ourselves, Hindu works just fine.

Actually, the British never wanted a united Hindu identity, they tried to divide everybody as was their strategy. Gandhi successfully outmaneuvered them and got all the tribes, SC's etc included.

In this discussion we need to separate the Abrahamic's religions out. When dealing with them we are a religion in opposition and that religion is Hinduism. When dealing with other Neo-Pagans, Shinto, New Age, Taoist etc we are all together.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I'd say
1. Hindu civilisation is analogous to the Hellenic civilisation
2. It includes more besides Vedic.
3. There's far more to it than only philosophy (am supposing the term is meant in the Greek sense)

Again: there's more than Vedic.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


So if there is more, then Hinduism is more than just a simple Religion, it includes a lot of other things.


<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->But western atheism and agnosticism are not at all the same as the atheist schools in Dharmic tradition (including the Jaina and Indian Bauddha tradition).
Western atheists denounce all religion. They
- are specifically opposed to the idea of any spirituality (including concepts like aatman, anything special about nature) and also
- deny any use/meaning in <i>philosophy</i> (IIRC, this is discussed in internet infidels). While I've never been inclined to adopt others' philosophies for myself (aren't we all capable of answering life's questions for ourselves?), I respect the right of others to pursue established philosophical paths like the Greek ones.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I agree Western Atheists are militant. I usually call them Evangelical Atheists, that usually shuts them up. I also tell them there are Hindu atheists, and distinguish them from Western militant Atheists. The Westernized Indian Atheist is a Macaulyte who adopted Western Evangelical Atheism as a pose to Christianity, but still Westernized and not Hindu Atheists.



<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Above all it was he who started and propagated the holding of cosmopolitan dinners of pork and beef as a means of eradicating the evil of caste prejudices and religious taboos of certain food. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ofcourse Animals are being unnecessarily harmed to prove their point.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Whereas such christo-conditioned western-patterned atheism in India is the result not of Hindu Dharma but of contact with the modern west.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I agree about Western Militant Missionary Atheism.


<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In real life, many of my friends tend to be atheists and agnostics and they get along very well with me too (although, since they don't ask, they continue to assume I am an atheist like them <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo--> Of course, <i>I</i> know what <i>they</i> are and accept <i>them</i> without reservations.) They think open-mindedness and 'tolerance' is purely an atheist quality because they're only used to christianism and know of islamism. (In contrast, E Asians, being traditionalists themselves, immediately assess me correctly as a traditionalist too. They are no less open-minded than us Hindus. Feel truly at home with them. Interesting that whereas I'm not guarded about what my affiliation is - if asked about it - they are though: Taoists for instance will not answer questions on what they are depending on who is asking.)

Am comfortable with western atheists. But <i>modern</i> Indian atheist movements worry me. Indians have not lost all of their tradition the way the west has, so they have the option of choosing a traditional Hindu atheistic path; or alternatively, they can be completely like *non-missionary* western atheists: individual atheists completely detached from all religion. However, modern Indian atheist movements nevertheless tend to be particularly anti-Hindu (though they may not approve of christianism/islamism either). The missionary atheist movements generally take it out on the majority religion in any part of the world and on first consideration, that would be Hindu Dharma in India. But that doesn't quite make sense in our situation since - unlike the west which was terrorised by christianism - Dharmic society is not generally interested in pursuing atheists or being intolerant of others' path.

If Bharatam may not remain Hindu, I would prefer it to become atheist in the fashion of what much of Japan is, rather than anything else (let alone christoislamic). Japanese atheists are not anti-Shinto or anti-Bauddha, even though their atheism is not not derived from a mental evolution born of Shinto or Buddhism but due to external events in recent Japanese history. Whereas, in Bharatam, everything that is a result of christo-influence is anti-Hindu.
Actually, a non-Hindu atheistic Bharatam like that in Japan would not bother me at all. It is enough if christoislamicommunazi memes are no more in the world (missionising memes that are intolerant of others' ways of life and personal beliefs, and can't bear that someone *somewhere* holds different private views). Then I'd not really mind what Bharatam becomes. I know it can never be what it was, and that the christian world has left its indelible imprint despite everything, and has installed breakage/christowestern thought patterns already. Since change we must and already have, I hope we go the way of Nippon. But christoislamicommunism will never allow that of course. Just as christoism has its sights on Japan and even communism has been launching repeated failed attempts on the country.
For true freedom to exist in the world, terrorist memes must be destroyed forever. After that, what happens is up to a free humanity. Of course, I'd dearly have at least one Natural Tradition survive and live a full, uncompromised life. My money is on Hellenismos or Taoism.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Indian Atheism if it grows will end up like Japan, a non-militant one where people just don't bother. I don't think that will happen because Hinduism has a lot of in-depth explanations and a lot more substance that it will always happen a significant appeal. But Hindu Agnosticism could steadily increase in % (and probably will) but it won't become the overwhelming philosophy like it is in Japan.
Also unlike the Japanese, Hindu civilization is in a front line battle zone with Islamists and Christo terrorists.


<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->[QUOTE][CODE][QUOTE]
<!--QuoteBegin-HareKrishna+Apr 4 2009, 10:28 PM-->QUOTE(HareKrishna @ Apr 4 2009, 10:28 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Husky+Apr 4 2009, 05:54 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Husky @ Apr 4 2009, 05:54 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In reality, Hinduism and Religion are Abhrahamic inventions <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I never agreed with the christian scholarship that claimed that the British invented 'Hinduism'. And this is a point of contention I have with Balagangadhara's saying something similar.
[right][snapback]96087[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A non-religios indian on the yahoo messenger:
what is the point to defend a tradition in which i dont belive?i dont see any point in wish tree or diwali
i like modern costume not the saree,i like rock music not bhangra or bhairav.
[right][snapback]96093[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Atheistic thinking has always existed (BTW, I am not one of them). There are many Hindu Atheists in the traditional Hindu style (not Western Atheism), by taking a Christian style militant stand that you must believe only in this or that to be Hindu could backfire.

Alternatively, you could have a religious Hindu who says I like Rock music and pants. They will say the religion is valid regardless of whether I wear a Dhoti or Pants?

I don't think we have try very hard to distinguish ourselves from Western or Islamic or Chinese culture. It's obvious to everyone due to the infinite subtleties that are part of culture. If a Non-religious person says they only want to follow the White man's culture, they are the classic Westernized Macaulite, you shouldn't bother trying to change their mind. A lot of the appeal of the West (Music, Clothes) are due to the power and wealth of the West (Not any real substance). When that disappears, so will be the appeal. You don't see anyone learning Persian poetry in India to show off today do you?



<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I'd say
1. Hindu civilisation is analogous to the Hellenic civilisation
2. It includes more besides Vedic.
3. There's far more to it than only philosophy (am supposing the term is meant in the Greek sense)

Again: there's more than Vedic.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

So if there is more, then Hinduism is more than just a simple Religion, it includes a lot of other things.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->What I meant was, not all the religious aspects of Hindu Dharma are Vedic.


<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I agree Western Atheists are militant.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Not all. Maybe you say that because you are thinking of N America only. There are 3 kinds of <i>western</i> atheists I can recognise (so far).

1. The missionary atheists
The current American kind that is growing up in an agressively evangelical christian society that is trying to extinguish atheism/agnosticism. Hence the atheists start by being reactively evangelically atheist. But in time, they become evangelically atheist with respect to everything else: including traditions that pose no threat to themselves or others.

McCabe is a *kind* of evangelical atheist. It makes sense in his time and context. He saw the need to fight christianism and to weaken its hold over Europe and America. Unlike Paine's Deism, McCabe was atheist. Paine - another great influential who similarly acted solo - was trying to remove humanity from the jaws of christianism too. McCabe only knew christianism, saw through the sham and hence lost his faith, but felt there was nothing else there. He was so far alienated from prechristian natural traditions that he could not have been very sympathetic to them let alone inclined towards them, so a dismissive (non-inclusive) atheism was his natural alternative.
I understand his evangelical atheism: it was directed at salvaging Europa/America.

But western evangelical atheisms when transplanted to India shows its monotheistical tendencies of being intolerant of the host society.

2. The second kind of western atheists are those of my agegroup in NL. They are what I'd call apathetic atheists. They really dislike christianism, and for the rest think religion is nonsense and have their own lives to live. Also understandable, but they're not very conscious about their choices, maybe it was because they were so young.

This is the kind that is becoming common in Bharatam in the younger generations. Thanks to christian media they are apathetic to Hindu Dharma. The Indian kind is psecular and is taught an aversion to Hindu Dharma but can be brought to fall into christianism.

3. The local atheists where I live: they are *conscious* of what they are, very self-educating and NOT evangelical. They are accepting of others but will not be imposed on. (Some have consciously chosen to be vegetarian for animal-friendly reasons, even since childhood, and even though their families often remain non-vegetarian.) The reason for such laissez-faire atheism is because this is not America: not under the constant threat of christian terror groups trying to snatch them for a cannibal supper.
This sort of western atheism is best.

In all honesty, I have more trust in their steadfastness than in the Hindus of this generation who are still culturally Hindu but atheist.
- The former have lost a lot to christianism but picked up their lives and moved on and know well who they are and can pass this humanity on to the next generations, guarding them from dangerous memes.
- The latter will at some point down the line bring forth progeny that is vanilla atheist with no longer the 'culturally Hindu' trappings. If such progeny turn out like the conscious atheists (non-evangelical) then it won't be bad for the nation - it won't preserve Dharma but it can guard against mindviruses. But what if they're not conscious atheists and fall into memetic diseases including psecularism instead?

In my previous post, I'd written the following. One qualification about it:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Cultural Hindus who have grown up to be atheist and are not antagonistic towards traditional Hindu paths, but are instead understanding/sympathetic towards all branches, tend to be Hindus I think, since it is like their own mental evolution and is not in conflict with established Dharmic tradition. This is my opinion.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->While these might be Hindus themselves, such cultural Hindu atheists cannot ensure passing on Dharmic tradition to the next generations though. Their parents passed on something to them and not all of it was imbibed: they became atheists (but they're not of the traditional Hindu atheist schools). They themselves will only be able to pass on the shell (the 'culture'), and not the substance in it, to their own children and so on. At some point in the transmission chain there will inevitably be a total break.


Japan's atheism is a bit like 3, but like I said earlier, it is not naturally derived (not from an evolution of local traditions, but because of external events).
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Indian Atheism if it grows will end up like Japan, a non-militant one where people just don't bother. I don't think that will happen because Hinduism has a lot of in-depth explanations and a lot more substance that it will always happen a significant appeal. But Hindu Agnosticism could steadily increase in % (and probably will) but it won't become the overwhelming philosophy like it is in Japan.
Also unlike the Japanese, Hindu civilization is in a front line battle zone with Islamists and Christo terrorists.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Christianism will never allow Bharatam to become like Japan: christianism is finding Japan impossible to christianise.
Christianism will only allow and enable the psecular style atheists/agnostics: those who like to ape the west and will christianise with the west and apostasise with the west.

Also, modern India does not have the strength of character of Japan, it's apparent from how western-thought patterns have entered at almost all levels among the 'religious' Hindus themselves.
Japan has made a relative success of everything, even this non-natural situation they ended up in. India's character is defined and maintained by degree of allegiance to its Dharma. When it goes, India will be meaningless too: some India will continue to exist, but serve no purpose.
Christoterrorists intolerant of christoterrorists again. When will this cease (answer: when christoislamism is no more.)

http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?P...522&SKIN=K
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Clash over church bifurcation move</b>
05/04/2009 13:26:55  PNS | Thiruvananthapuram

The dispute over the clergy’s move to bifurcate the Latin Catholic parish in Valiyathura in the outskirts of the capital city ended in violence on Sunday evening, in which several persons including police officials and constables suffered injuries.

<b>The police force present on the spot to control the violent mass of believers belonging to factions that supported and opposed the bifurcation move came under heavy stone-pelting and ten policemen including Deputy Commissioner of Police P Vikram were injured.</b> here were unconfirmed reports that one person had suffered hack injuries in the clash between the two factions. As the clash intensified and the stone-pelting became heavier, the police were forced to resort to lathicharge, teargas lobbing and usage of water cannons.

The clashes started at about 5.30 pm Sunday after one faction reportedly attacking a procession that started from the parish church at Valiyathura as part of the observance of Palm Sunday. The police, who rushed to the spot to contain the violence, came under stone-pelting and bottle-throwing.

To control the violence, the police carried out two rounds of lathi-charge and resorted to using water cannon thrice. But with the water cannon becoming useless after water ran out, <b>the dispersed groups reassembled and attacked the police.</b> Following this, the police lobbed teargas shells.
(Who can tell the difference between christomaniacs and islamaniacs.)

<b>More police personnel had to be called in after the clashes threatened to spread to the high-security zone near the Thiruvananthapuram airport.</b> Tension was still prevalent in the area as the dispersed believers had been reassembling on several spots. Higher officials of police also reached the spot.

The basic reason for the clash was the Latin Catholic Church’s “unilateral” decision to bifurcate the Valiyathura parish. Tension had been there since Saturday morning. A quarrel had occurred at the diocesan office at Vellayambalam on Saturday after those opposing the bifurcation move reached there with protest.

The talks between the priests and the believers had not yielded any result and a clash was then averted with the timely intervention of the police. <b>The protestors had complained that Bishop Suze Pakyam had threatened to kill those who opposed the bifurcation move.</b>
(Very catholic/christian of him. What will it be, bishop? Are the sheep to be hung, drawn and quartered; or are they going on the rack and then getting burnt for 'heresy' - for opposing the church's diktats?)

Police officials held discussions with the leaders of the opposing factions late in he evening and decided to hold a peace meet at the district collectorate at 2.00 pm Monday.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sorry, I can't stop repeating the following again, because they're just TOO applicable for me to resist. In the above, christoterrorists terrorise each other and the police had to intervene and the christomaniacs attack police. Where have we seen this before? "Ooooh, oooh, oooh, I know" (everyone raises hand). Too bad. *I'm* going to answer <!--emo&Tongue--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo--> (Okay, I'm only going to copy-and-paste, but still.)

http://freetruth.50webs.org/B3c.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In the year 366 (CE, naturally) there was an election for the Papacy, which was now very rich. The successful candidate was "St." Damasus, and his methods were such that in one day his men left the corpses of 160 of his rival's supporters on the floor of a small church. <b>The war lasted a week and was so furious that the Roman "police" were swept aside and the prefect driven out of the city.</b>
-- How Christianity Grew Out of Paganism, by Joseph McCabe<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
http://freetruth.50webs.org/Overview3.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"This guy has been sent by Satan," screamed one of the preachers [of an Evangelical Church], Renildo Rodriguez da Silva. He pointed accusingly at a tall, well-dressed man in the crowd, an evangelical of a different stripe, and proclaimed, "He's evil."
The two soon were locked in a shoving match. <b>Police had to rush in to break it up.</b>
-- Catholic Crossroads: <b>Latin America</b> - Fight of its life - Philadelphia Inquirer, June 06, 2006 http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/sp...ic/14748492.htm<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Found the following link via a comment in ExpressBuzz (EDIT: added in link).

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13579318/YSR-the...f-Andhrapradesh
<b>YSR the Christian Terrorist CM of Andhrapradesh</b>

<b>Warning:</b> Disturbing pictures of those murdered by Samuel Reddy.
(Captions on images are in Telugu or Kannada. Sorry, I'm illiterate in this matter. I *think* it's Telugu...)
The rest of the document is in English.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Description</b>

YSR the christian terrorist chief minister of Andhra Pradesh whose full name is Yeduguri Samuel Rajasekhara Reddy. If the Hindus knows that YSR is a christian, the public won’t vote for the congress. YSR’s father Raja Reddy was a poor farmer who got converted to Christianity for money and was ostracised by his native village, Balapanur. Raja Reddy moved away to Pulivendula where he poured kerosene on a person and burned him alive. Raja Reddy later killed a barytes mine lease Venkatasubbaiah and took over his mine. YSR continued the illegal mining activities and the crores he got was pumped back to build his terrorist faction gangs and rose politically using violence. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes yes, Samuel is a "Christian terrorist" but why don't these people say that <i>CHRISTIANISM</i> IS TERRORISM? Because it is.


<b>ADDED:</b>
2. http://brahmallahchrist.indiainteracts.com...tabilize-india/
(What a deeply lame name. Never mind.)
<b> The Christian conspiracy to destabilize India</b>
Published on August 31st, 2008

It talks about the Orissa situation.

Check the first comment by a christian:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->1. davidnew Says:
      Posted on September 1st, 2008

      With all your lovely references you support the killings. You ought to be stuffed in one of those huts when its being burned. Thats the only language fundamentalists like you know.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why is it christians (=terrorists) always like burning people? What downright evil minds they have.

And how conveniently the christoterrorist DavidNew forgets how every single public christoterrorist speaker (e.g. John Dayal) practically said Swami Lakshmanananda "got what he deserved" when the Swami was murdered by the evil christos.
Christians not only openly supported the murder, but instigated and carried out the brutal killing after trying several times in prior years. In contrast, this "brahmallahchrist" character is not condoning anything, one can read the article for oneself and come to that conclusion.

DavidNew's silence on the christian murder of the Hindu Swami speaks volumes: he himself is now an accomplice in the murder of the Swami by his deliberate quiet acquiescence, by his careful avoidance of mentioning the christian-instigated catastrophe altogether and by his beginning his christodialogue (fingerpointing) only with the repercussions thereof instead of at the actual initiating event (which was the christian murder of the Swami after the many christian attempts on his life).

This shows that DavidNew supports the murder of the Swami. Going by his arsonist logic, I presume he wants to burn himself since he doesn't want to descend into hypocrisy? As terribly sad as that would be, it's a free world, who am I to stop him?
^


And:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9689477/The-Soni...aons-Conspiracy
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>As per home minister of India reports, Christian terrorists funded by West and the Churches in India kill more Hindus per day compared with the much publicized Muslim terrorism that is going on all over India.</span>
So far around 70000 Hindus were killed by terrorism by Christians and
Muslims in India. Christians want to create Christian nations in North
East and Muslims want to create an Islamic nation out of India.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Why do Hindus give christianists a free ticket when the christomaniacs behave just like muslims do: exactly according to the terrorist ideology of christoislamism. Hence they murder our swamis, genocide our people, lie, lie, lie, kill, stab, rape, loot, appropriate. This is all they do. Why do Hindus not boycott christianism and its cannibal sheep the way they're willing to consider boycotting islam and its evil ummah? I will *never* understand.

Even this thread is called 'christian subversion and missionary activity' (sounds almost innocuous) whereas there's the 'terrorist attack' thread for islam. The disparity in presentation perpetuates the christian PR-instilled sham that somehow christianism is better, more decent, less terrorist, less genocidal, more able to be reasoned with and less certain a deathblow than islamism. Yet the facts apparently turn out to be that christianism is murdering more of our people than islam. So why is christianism allowed so many million 'second' chances? And when our murdered people weren't allowed even one by christoislamism.
<b>The End of Christian America</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The percentage of self-identified Christians has fallen 10 points in the past two decades. How that statistic explains who we are now—and what, as a nation, we are about to become.
............

Still, in the new NEWSWEEK Poll, fewer people now think of the United States as a "Christian nation" than did so when George W. Bush was president (62 percent in 2009 versus 69 percent in 2008). Two thirds of the public (68 percent) now say religion is "losing influence" in American society, while just 19 percent say religion's influence is on the rise. The proportion of Americans who think religion "can answer all or most of today's problems" is now at a historic low of 48 percent. During the Bush 43 and Clinton years, that figure never dropped below 58 percent.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Apr 8 2009, 07:01 AM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Apr 8 2009, 07:01 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>The End of Christian America</b><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The percentage of self-identified Christians has fallen 10 points in the past two decades. How that statistic explains who we are now—and what, as a nation, we are about to become.
............

Still, in the new NEWSWEEK Poll, fewer people now think of the United States as a "Christian nation" than did so when George W. Bush was president (62 percent in 2009 versus 69 percent in 2008). Two thirds of the public (68 percent) now say religion is "losing influence" in American society, while just 19 percent say religion's influence is on the rise. The proportion of Americans who think religion "can answer all or most of today's problems" is now at a historic low of 48 percent. During the Bush 43 and Clinton years, that figure never dropped below 58 percent.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[right][snapback]96233[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


This is a psy ops fake news
Great piece of information.
70,000 deaths due to Christian terror, very similar to the other so called religion of peace. I think the Jealous demon god commands them to attack.




<!--QuoteBegin-Husky+Apr 7 2009, 08:39 PM-->QUOTE(Husky @ Apr 7 2009, 08:39 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
So far around 70000 Hindus were killed by terrorism by Christians and
Muslims in India. Christians want to create Christian nations in North
East and Muslims want to create an Islamic nation out of India.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-agnivayu+Apr 10 2009, 08:16 AM-->QUOTE(agnivayu @ Apr 10 2009, 08:16 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Great piece of information.
70,000 deaths due to Christian terror, very similar to the other so called religion of peace.  I think the Jealous demon god commands them to attack.

<!--QuoteBegin-Husky+Apr 7 2009, 08:39 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Husky @ Apr 7 2009, 08:39 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
So far around 70000 Hindus were killed by terrorism by Christians and
Muslims in India. Christians want to create Christian nations in North
East and Muslims want to create an Islamic nation out of India.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[right][snapback]96268[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The actual quote says that the number of Hindus murdered by BOTH christianism AND islamism comes to 70,000:
"So far around 70000 Hindus were killed by terrorism <b>by Christians and Muslims</b> in India. Christians want to create Christian nations in North East and Muslims want to create an Islamic nation out of India."

But it does say that "As per home minister of India reports, <b>Christian terrorists</b> funded by West and the Churches <b>in India kill more Hindus per day compared with the much publicized Muslim terrorism that is going on all over India.</b>"
Was it an earlier home minister? I have come across the same approximate figure of ~70,000 somewhere else before (maybe christianaggession?). A real genocide: large-scale massacre directed at a single population. (Unlike the Godhra riots were 700 muslims and 300 Hindus ended up dead and which was itself sparked by an islamic jihad that took the lives of somewhere between 50-60 Hindus.)
1. http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?P...550&SKIN=K
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>RI to 'Minority' Rapists</b>
08/04/2009 22:41:19 

Kottayam: In the SME ragging case special court found the accused as guilty of gangrape and other charges , sentenced Renjith Varghese and Sherin Shamsudeen, to undergo rigorous imprisonment for 10 years each and 20,000 Rupees fine. Shafeeq Yusuf, the third accused in the case, was awarded three years’ RI and a fine of Rs 5,000.

A poor Hindu girl was raped and ragged by the evil combination of  'Minorities' created much uproar earlier when the authorities tried to sabotage the investigation by giving clean chit to the culprits.
(Denial, escape from justice or concealment of crimes is what christoism attempts when it's in charge. It even does the same when it involves its own, such as the example of catholic 'sister Abhaya' who got attacked and murdered by fellow christian sister and priests.)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>ADDED:</b>
Compare the lack of coverage that this case of a Hindu victim of a real gang-rape got, with the nation-wide over-exposure given to the alleged 'woes' of the nun in the famous NUN-ADMITS-THERE-WAS-NO-GANGRAPE-AFTER-ALL case.

The difference?
- One was a lie about a christoislamic victim of Hindu perpetrators who weren't. Christomedia's viewership was intended to be brainwashed into booing Hindus and Hindu Dharma.
- The other was the truth about a Hindu victim of actual christoislamic perpetrators.
Christomedia's viewership was intended to be kept in the dark about the true perpetually-terrorist nature of christoislamism.

2. http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?P...546&SKIN=C
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Vatican's Persecution Complex</b>
08/04/2009 13:57:08  HK Correspondent

The Catholic Pope Benedict has issued a statement requesting Catholics around the world to pray for Catholics against persecution of Christians in India. As usual, the Pope love to claim falsely that Christians are persecuted.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Continued at link
1. Anyone know a source or ref for the figure of 70,000? Or to confirm/deny it?
<!--QuoteBegin-Husky+Apr 7 2009, 08:39 PM-->QUOTE(Husky @ Apr 7 2009, 08:39 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->http://www.scribd.com/doc/9689477/The-Soni...aons-Conspiracy
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->As per home minister of India reports, Christian terrorists funded by West and the Churches in India kill more Hindus per day compared with the much publicized Muslim terrorism that is going on all over India.

So far around 70000 Hindus were killed by terrorism by Christians and Muslims in India. Christians want to create Christian nations in North East and Muslims want to create an Islamic nation out of India.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->[right][snapback]96192[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
2. I know Brannon Parker's write-up (which Dhu had reposted on IF earlier on) mentioned 70,000 victims of terror in India, but is that what the above is referring to? And if so, what is the source of the figure?
http://mwcnews.net/index.php?option=com_co...26990&Itemid=26
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Hindu Nationalists:Indigenous Resilience</b>
By Brannon Parker   
I am currently in Mumbai, India and have been here in India for the past three months. I am here doing research on the tribal cultures of India. I actually arrived in Mumbai about 4 hrs before the terror attacks took place. The mood is quite somber and the people are frustrated. Despite all that, the Indian people continue with their lives. I would compare it to the mood most Americans have when they hear about or see a horrific car accident. The fact is terror has been feasting on India for quite some time now. Approximately <b>70,000</b> Indians have died due to this onslaught of terror.

It is disheartening to see alternative news portals broadcasting the Main Stream Media's vilification of the Hindu Nationalists. In sync with the Globalists agenda, they have latched onto the Hindus as the new whipping boys. It is also strange that despite India being hit by terror for decades, only now the suddenly concerned Westerners are paying attention. What is unfortunate is that these same people are bandying about theories of Indian involvement.

Maybe if this were the first and only attack, people such speculation would have merit. Out of ignorance of the reality in India they pass arround anti-Indian propaganda that suits their mistrust of media and understandable interest in knowing the truth. Recently on Dec 2nd, another terror attack occurred in Assam, India. Now why didnt that get any play in the world media. Where are all the theorists on that attack?

Anti-Indian Propaganda is making the rounds claiming that Hindu Nationalists were involved in the Mumbai attacks.Please consider. If such people were an all powerful group capable of International terrorism or even domestic terrorism why do the very same corporate media outlets attack them? The same corporate media that gave us Obama and Osama, the lies about 9/11, Iraq, Iran, Georgia etc spend a disproprotionate effort in demonizing the Hindu Nationalist groups. A majority of Indian media is owned by the very same corporates that control the Western media. Rupert Murdoch owns about 6 TV stations here. The Indian media is blatantly hostile to the RSS, BJP, VHP and all other Hindu Nationalist groups.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->The same was reposted in excerpted form at http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Glimpses_XXI.htm
http://christianaggression.org/item_displa...S&id=1124970526
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Neurologist: Sodomy "Common" in Mother Teresa's Orphanage</b>

Posted August 25, 2005
Sanjeev K Ahuja
Gurgaon, August 23, 2005
Hindustan Times

<b>The Deepashram orphanage at Gurgaon � for mentally and physically challenged children � has found itself in a controversy after an Italian neurologist complained to the Vatican Embassy about sexual abuse of children at the home.</b>

The neurologist, Dr Franco, had worked as a volunteer at Deepashram, established by Mother Teresa in 1995, for six months a couple of years ago. Brothers Contemplative � the male wing of Missionaries of Charity � manages the home, which has 66 boys aged between 12 and 26.

Franco registered his complaint at the Apostolic Nunciature, Chanakyapuri. Second secretary of the Apostolic Nunciature, Father Tomasz Grysa, said they received the �communication from Dr Franco� in February this year. The case has been referred to the hierarchical superiors of the Missionaries of Charity Brothers, Father Grysa said.

At the orphanage, volunteers did not rule out the possibility of sexual abuse of younger inmates by the older ones. Brother Benedict, a volunteer from Rome, said: �If any case of this kind is reported to us, the guilty boys are punished.�
(This is the usual pattern: victims of christian abuse turn into abusers of the next generation. In the west, the record is that many lay christians became paedophiles this way.)

Abdullah, a 15-year-old inmate, said it was �common� for the older boys to sodomise the younger boys at night when no one was on guard. He accused a 24-year-old of sodomising a 12-year-old. �Bahut se bachche yahan par ganda kaam karte hain,� he said.

Brother Benedict and attendants dismissed the allegation. Abdullah was shifted from the children�s home at Majnu Ka Tila to Gurgaon as he was a troublemaker, Brother Benedict said.

Another volunteer at the orphanage, Dr Wanda Toso from San Raffele Hospital in Milan, told HT that Franco had also told her about child abuse at Deepashram. She, however, did not have any personal confirmation from the boys as she did not speak Hindi.

�I have not been able to interact with the children,� Toso said.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Is no one else angry about how the disgusting disease of christianism has come to Bharatam and is destroying Indian children's futures? The cycle of abuse once started - how can it be ended?
Why do people tolerate christianism. It destroys entire generations.
1. Old news, but I was not aware. The christian terrorist Sangliana was already mentioned earlier by Viren and Acharya.
Acharya had written:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sangliana is the head of New Life, the christian group which published the booklets which incited hate towards hindu gods.
Now he goes and hand overs a "detailed dossier" to an official of foreign govt.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sangliana is a christian=terrorist posing as a cop. Should never allow the terrorist ideologies to get quota in armed forces and police, else the result will be like in J&K and like this entity:
http://christianaggression.org/item_displa...S&id=1115956027
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Top Karntaka Police Official involved in Christian Conversions</b>
Posted May 12, 2005
15/05/2003 At 12:21
indymedia.org

H.T. Sangliana Director General of Police (Prisons) of Karnataka is directly involved with few Christian Missionaries in Conversions in Rural Areas of Karnataka.

Sangliana, an I.A.S of 1969 Batch from Meghalaya, was the Police Commissioner of Bangalore City and Director General of Police till recently. Sangliana, a North Eastern Christian, has been in the news for quite some time in Karnataka for being too much biased with Christian and Muslim organizations.

<b>The moment he assumed charge of his office, he first tried to keep track on all the Hindu organizations.</b> He was given a free hand by the previous Chief Minister of Karnataka S.M. Krishna and few of his cabinet colleagues.

The First time when Sangliana came to limelight was in Nov 2001, when few Hindu Organizations protested against some Christian Missionaries in Doddabalapur (Bangalore Rural), where mass conversions were being held. Violence broke out when the Christian missionaries attacked the Hindus. But the DGP instead of taking action and arresting the missionaries, instead ordered the arrest of all members of Hindu organizations and got them booked under false cases, many of whom are still undergoing imprisonment.
(Ah yes. The common christian trick of arresting innocent Hindus and letting them languish in prison indefinitely. Reminiscent of Dara Singh and the Hindus christo-inquisitioned under the christo-manufactured charges of "Hindu terror".)

<b>There are plenty of instances where this Police Top Brat was involved; he has ordered Arrest of over 1,000 activists for just attending in the All India R.S.S meet held in Hebbal Bangalore in 2001. He ordered Arrest of the Activists without any warrant. These activists were brutally beaten and tortured by the Police Officers.</b>
(That's right: the christian torture of the heathens. Like what they did to Kanchi Acharya and again: like the Hindus christo-inquisitioned on false charges of "Hindu terror".)

<b>In another Instance, Sangliana stood and supported the Church people, when they were involved in demolishing of Maa Bhagavathi temple in Devanahalli (Bangalore Rural) and Sri Durgamba Temple in Banaswadi (Bangalore) in 2002. In both the cases the temples were demolished for construction of Churches</b> despite strong protest by various Hindu Organisations other than R.S.S. The Protestors had failed as they had no alternative left because the church members were supported by the Chief Minister himself and two of his cabinet colleagues T.JOHN (Infrastructure Minister) & J.ALEXANDER (Bharthinagar M.L.A) and above all VYALAR RAVI (A.I.C.C KARNATAKA), who has close links to Sonia Gandhi. Today 84 Churches have come up in this area in the span of last two years.

Sangliana and few other officers from the Police Department give lectures about Bible to all students every Saturday at the BIBLE COLLEGE OF INDIA, Bangalore. These colleges consists over 1,000 Students who are mostly from North Eastern States.

The Hindu community people have been the target of Sangliana even during the celebrations of any of the Hindu Festival or any National Celebration. The DGP was strict with Hindu people; he drafted a time frame for celebrations of Ganesh Chathurthi and other Hindu Festivals. In fact, since the last year he has banned the use of traditional fire-crackers during Diwali celebrations.

Very recently, after India�s success over Pakistan in the World Cup cricket match, when Indians were celebrating the victory, a group of over 300 Muslims protested the celebration and attacked the celebrating Hindus with dangerous soda bottles. Over 84 Hindus were severely injured and 14 of them died in the attack by the Islamists.

But to everybody�s surprise only 8 Muslims were arrested and 518 Hindus arrested for just taking part in the celebration. The very next day all the 8 Muslims who were arrested by the police, were ordered to be released without paying any bail amount by the DGP Sangliana, C.K. JAFFER SHARIEF (CONGRESS M.P) and ROSHAN BAIG (TOURISM AND HAJ MINISTER KARNATAKA). <b>Till today, there are over 312 Hindus still undergoing imprisonment in Bangalore jail, as they do not have enough money to pay out for bail.</b>
(And again. Are they free now? Does any Hindu know? Or have these poor Hindus also been swallowed up permanently by the christoinquisition?)

When a group of around 20-25 men meet the Chief Minister of Karnataka, the Chief Minister brushed aside their plea and told them the following words: � IT IS BETTER THAT YOU PEOPLE MIND YOUR BUSINESS, IF YOU ARE SO MUCH CONCERNED ABOUT ANTI-NATIONALS, YOU MAY JOIN THEM IN THEIR CELL , I WILL MAKE ARRANGEMENTS�.

We know that Chief Minister of Karnataka is bound by his loyalty to his Italian Leader Sonia Gandhi, In fact, the Chief Minister, his son and other members of his party are getting monetary <b>benefist from few Italian Companies who are actually close to his madam</b>. So he alone is not be blamed for all the happenings in Karnataka, but the entire Government Machinery of Karnataka has failed to put a check on the activities and rise of Missionaries and Madarassas in Karnataka. It is still not late, before it is completely in the hands of Anti-Hindu Forces.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Error Correction:</b> See #480.


2. Is this the LTTE (christian terrorist org in Sri Lanka)? No.
The NLFT (christian terrorist org of Tripura)? No.
The NSCN (christian terrorist org of Nagaland)? No.
The NDFB (christian terrorist org of Bodoland)? No.
The Kuki National Army (a christian terrorist org in Assam)? No.
But one would be forgiven for getting confused.
It's the *other* christian terrorist organisation: the LRA. Not the Indian subcontinent, but Uganda in Africa.

http://christianaggression.org/item_displa...S&id=1137170865
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Millions terrorized by Christian Militants in Africa</b>
Posted January 13, 2006
Sources:
News24.com
Wikipedia - Lord's Resistance Army

The Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) has waged a bloody war in northern Uganda since 1987, to replace President Yoweri Museveni's government with one based on the Biblical Ten Commandments.

<b>Up to 12,000 people have been killed in the violence, with many more dying from disease and malnutrition as a direct result of the conflict. Nearly two million civilians have been forced to flee their homes,</b> living in internally displaced person (IDP) camps and within the safety of larger settlements, sleeping on street corners and in other public spaces.

<b>It is estimated that around 20,000 children have been kidnapped by the group since 1987 for use as soldiers and sex slaves.</b>

The LRA has abducted large numbers of civilians for training as guerrillas; most victims were children and young adults. The LRA abducted young girls as sex and labor slaves. Other children, mainly girls, were reported to have been sold, traded, or given as gifts by the LRA to arms dealers in Sudan. While some later escaped or were rescued, the whereabouts of many children remain unknown.

In particular, the LRA abducted numerous children and, at clandestine bases, terrorized them into virtual slavery as guards, concubines, and soldiers. <b>In addition to being beaten, raped, and forced to march until exhausted, abducted children were forced to participate in the killing of other children who had attempted to escape. Amnesty International reported that without child abductions, the LRA would have few combatants.</b> More than 6,000 children were abducted during 1998, although many of those abducted later escaped or were released. Most human rights NGOs place the number of abducted children still held captive by the LRA at around 3,000, although estimates vary substantially.

To avoid abduction by the LRA, every night as many as 40,000 children flee their homes in the countryside to sleep in the relative safety of towns. Known as "night commuters", they seek refuge overnight at churches, hospitals, bus stations and temporary shelters before returning home again each morning.

<b>The LRA rebels say they are fighting for the establishment of a government based on the biblical Ten Commandments.</b> They are notorious for kidnapping children and forcing them to become rebel fighters or concubines. More than one-half-million people in Uganda's Gulu and Kitgum districts have been displaced by the fighting and are living in temporary camps, protected by the army.

<b>Forty-eight people were hacked to death</b> near the town of Kitgum in the far north of Uganda on 25 July 2002. Local newspaper reports said <b>elderly people were killed with machetes and spears, and babies were flung against trees.</b> Ugandans were shocked by the brutality of the latest attack by the rebel Lord's Resistance Army.
(They're really following the bible, not even forgetting the christian <i>culture</i> of dashing babies' brains out. A very christian theme.)

The vicious rebel attack in northern Uganda raised questions about planned peace talks between the group, the Lord's Resistance Army, and Uganda's government. President Yoweri Museveni had recently agreed to peace talks brokered by Ugandan religious leaders. The Ugandan army has been trying to crush the LRA rebellion for 16 years without success. President Museveni gave his backing to peace talks to be brokered by religious leaders. But, Ugandan army spokesman Major Shaban Bantariza said he believes this is a waste of time because the rebel leader, Joseph Kony, does not have any real agenda to discuss.

Rebels of the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) attacked a camp for internally displaced persons (IDPs) in war-ravaged northern Uganda on 16 May 2004, killing scores of people and abducting others. A group of rebels attacked Pagak displaced people's camp in three prongs: one attacked the camp, a second one attacked the soldiers guarding it and the third one concentrated on the patrol units. The group that attacked the camp set ablaze dozens of grass-thatched huts to create confusion, then looted food and abducted people whom they forced to carry their loot for a distance before they killed them along with their babies.

The LRA has also operated across the porous border region with Southern Sudan , subjecting Sudanese civilians to its horrific tactics.

The LRA has been known by a number of different names, including the Lord's Army (1987 to 1988) and the Uganda Peoples' Democratic Christian Army (UPDCA) (1988 to 1992) before settling on the current name in 1992. Some academics have included the LRA under the rubric Lakwena Part Two. For simplicity's sake, this article will refer to all of these various manifestations as the "Lord's Resistance Army".

While the LRA now appears to consist of less than two thousand combatants that are under intense pressure from the Ugandan military, the government has been unable to end the insurgency so far. Ongoing peace negotiations have been complicated by an investigation by the International Criminal Court. The conflict continues to retard Uganda's development efforts, costing the poor country's economy a cumulative total of at least $1.33 billion, which is equivalent to 3% of GDP, or $100 million annually. A 2005 poll of humanitarian professionals, media personalities, academics and activists identified the conflict in the north of Uganda as the second worst "forgotten" humanitarian emergency in the world.

A small domestic insurgency (June 1988 to March 1994)

The June 1988 peace accord between the UPDA and the NRA, as well as the defeat the year before of the Holy Spirit Movement, left the group led by Kony as the only significant rebel force operating in Acholiland. Former commander Odong Latek of the UPDA and some of his soldiers refused to accept the accord and joined the LRA. Latek gained a lot of influence in the organization, and convinced Kony to adopt conventional guerrilla tactics. Prior to this, LRA forces normally attacked in a cross-shaped formation with designated persons sprinkling holy water, much like the Holy Spirit Movement. (Behrend 184) Tactics since consist primarily of surprise attacks on civilian targets, such as villages. These attacks are carried out by highly mobile groups of 15 that split into groups of three to six to disperse after the attack. (Refugee Law Project 21) The LRA will also occasionally carry out large-scale attacks to underline the inability of the government to protect the populace. The tactical changes were reflected in the adoption of yet another organizational name, the Uganda Peoples' Democratic Christian Army (UPDCA).

Operation North (1991 to 1992)

March 1991 saw the start of a massive government attempt to destroy the LRA, later known as "Operation North." The whole of Northern Uganda was locked down and all humanitarian organizations were forced to leave in preparation for counterinsurgency operations. Operation North combined efforts to destroy the combatants while cutting away its roots of support among the population through heavy-handed tactics, including arbitrary arrests, torture and extralegal executions. (Gersony 31, [6]) While Operation North was prompted partially by the activities of the LRA, the World Bank had made a loan available for reconstruction of Northern infrastructure, which could not be implemented in an insecure environment.

As part of Operation North, Minister Bigombe created "Arrow Groups", mostly armed with bows and arrows, as a form of local community defence. As the LRA was armed with modern weaponry, the bow-and-arrow groups were overpowered. Nevertheless, the creation of the Arrow Groups angered Kony, who began to feel that he no longer had the support of the population. In response the LRA mutilated numerous Acholi who they believed to be government supporters, cutting off their hands, noses and ears, padlocking their mouths shut through holes cut in their lips, or simply hacking them to death with machetes. (Dolan 15, Gersony 33) Kony would later explain the reasons for these actions: "If you pick up an arrow against us and we ended up cutting off the hand you used, who is to blame? You report us with your mouth, and we cut off your lips? Who is to blame? It is you! The Bible says that if your hand, eye or mouth is at fault, it should be cut off."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1/2
On what really happened in Dangs:

http://christianaggression.org/item_displa...S&id=1136510956
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Christian militants started 1998 violence in Gujarat</b>

Posted January 5, 2006
by Manoj Damor

A seven-year old newstory archived on Rediff.com sheds new light on the widespread involvement of Christian militants in starting anti-Hindu pogroms in the Dangs district of Gujarat in December 1998.

As an eyewitness and a Hindu tribal from the Dangs, it was plainly evident to me and the locals that as we Hindu tribals objected to blatant conversion activities and repeated violence by Christian missionaries, clashes broke out. <b>The so-called mainstream media used this pretext to tarnish the reputation of the peace-loving Hindus. In December 2004, press reporters from 40 countries descended upon the Dangs and spread a misinformation campaign.</b>

But the truth, as our elders say, can never be buried. Here are some excerpts from the Rediff.com news-story, which I reproduce below:

When a little-known organisation called the Hindu Jagran Manch decided to stage a rally at Ahwa, headquarters of the Dangs district in south Gujarat, on December 25 to protest against the mass conversion of Hindus to Christianity, nobody foresaw much trouble.

But, at noon, some 100 tribal Christians pelted stones at the rally. Christian [converts] from surrounding villages joined in and started abusing the rallyists and throwing stones at them.

Soon, the place became a battlefield with some 2,000 Christians ranged against 3,000 Hindus and stones flying all over.

Finally, the police used their batons and tear-gas to disperse the warring groups. But by then several people were injured. And a spark had been lit.

<b>Next, a group of [heavily armed] tribal Christian [converts]</b> turned their attention to a Hindu house, trying to break down the doors and windows. When they failed, they smashed a jeep parked outside.

They then ransacked the shop of Pradeep Sambhaji Patil, district president of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad.

"The [Christians] were drunk and shouting anti-Hindu slogans," alleges Sanjay D Vyavahare, whose house was attacked. "<b>They were [taunting us and] screaming, 'Hindu baahar niklo, Hinduonko maar do (Hindus come out. Kill the Hindus) and abusing our Gods. We were lucky the door didn't open, otherwise they would have killed us."</b>

Says Poonam Vyavahare, his sister-in-law, "We support neither the BJP nor the VHP, but still they attacked us. We have never experienced these things here. Our house was the only one they attacked [as we are the only Hindu family living amongst Christian homes]."
(But like islamism, christianism does not care what group a heathen is or is not allied with. If there's an unsaved kaffir - an infidevil - they will attack. It's convert-or-kill the heathens. They need no other reasons.)

The news spread like fire and soon Hindus started congregating and [retaliated strongly by] attacking Christian institutions in and around Ahwa.

Says Sunil Choudhary, local Bajrang Dal [President], "There were hardly any Christians in the district 20 years ago. But today almost every village has 10 per cent Christians. This is only because these missionaries convert poor [Hindus] by force or greed."

Choudhary sees the attack on the Hindu rally as a warning to all Hindus that "these [Christian] missionaries are going to change our Hindu sanskriti (culture). But we will not let them."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
2/2
Still on what really happened in Dangs, Gujarat in 1998.

http://christianaggression.org/item_displa...S&id=1141381543
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>What Happened in Dangs?</b>

Posted March 3, 2006
June 1999
Hinduism Today

On January 7, 1999, the respected Sarvodaya leader Ghelubhai Nayak, 82, made a report to India's National Human Rights Commission on the Hindu-Christian conflict in the Dangs District of Gujarat. It is here that violence occurred in December and January which attracted international attention, just prior to the murder of Staines. This report, originally published in the Observer is one of the few on-the-scene accounts by a long-time resident.

Myself and my elder brother, Chottubhai Nayak, came to Dangs in 1948 at the behest of late Sardar Patel for commencing tribal welfare activities in this backward region. I and my Gandhian colleagues condemn violence. However, we are anguished to bring to your notice the ground realities behind the recent incidents in Dangs which haven't come to the fore or have been <b>deliberately ignored by the large sections of the media</b>, which in turn has led to a one-sided media reporting and press statements inflaming the area further.

There is no dearth of evidence to prove that the violence is a reaction to the organized conversion activities of the Christian missionaries in the area with means that are clearly questionable and even illegal. The single-point program of the missionaries is to convert the tribals and in doing so they are often using means that go far beyond the realm of social service. They entice with a curious mix of blind faith and allurements. The population of converted (Christian) tribals, which was just around 500 when we came to Dangs in 1948, today stands around 40,000 which is over 30 percent of the total tribal population of the area around Dangs.

<b>The violence in Dangs began on Christmas day after some Christian youths pelted stones on the rally of the Hindu Jagran Manch and burned the jeep of a tribal participant in the rally.</b> There have been at least 15 instances in the past three years in Dangs wherein the Christians, under the influence of their preachers, desecrated idols of Lord Hanuman, who is worshiped in this area by a large section of tribals for ages. In one incident in Gaadhvi village three years ago, they urinated on an idol of Hanuman, and later in Jharsod village they crushed Hanuman's idol to pieces and threw it away in the river.

<b>Then there have been several instances where tension has gripped a village after the Christians publicly called Hindu Gods as Satan [the devil],</b> again under the influence of their preachers. Another cause of the increasing tension is the refusal of the Christians tribals to contribute to the traditional tribal festivals.

In many cases a tribal who accepts Christian faith starts pressuring his brother into accepting the faith, and this often results in bloody fights over the issue. In a case last October, I had warned the district collector about an <b>attempt by some Christians to disturb peace when they twice beat up no less than the nephew of the former Bhil Raja of Linga (in Dangs) when he refused to marry his son to the daughter of a Christian, who was forcing him to enter into the matrimonial alliance.</b> The Christians of Linga have also been opposing the construction of a Hanuman temple on a piece of land which is owned by the Raja of Linga, Bhavar Singh, and to which they have no right.
(A christian Terrorist Bride. Scary.)

Let me remind you that Mahatma Gandhi, the Father of the Nation, denounced the conversion activity by Christian missionaries as "a blot on humanity in the name of social service." Even Vinoba Bhave, the greatest saint that the country can boast of in the past several centuries, denounced conversion activity and called for a legal ban on any kind of conversion. I have been a close witness to the entire episode in Dangs, and I stand by whatever I have mentioned in this communication.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Husky+Apr 11 2009, 03:38 PM-->QUOTE(Husky @ Apr 11 2009, 03:38 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
<b>The moment he assumed charge of his office, he first tried to keep track on all the Hindu organizations.</b> He was given a free hand by the previous Chief Minister of Karnataka S.M. Krishna and few of his cabinet colleagues.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Back then the CM of Karnataka was AK Anthony.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just to set facts straight. A K Antony was Kerala CM. CM of Karnataka must have been SM Krishna, a Hindu. Classic example of Hindus subjugating other Hindus for personal gains.


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