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Topics For Hindu Identity And Society
This thread is to deliberate on India (and Hindus specifically), as a nation and a state and thus encompasses only the current practices that are related directly to the "Identity" and "Society". The presumption is it the Hindu identity (at micro level) and society (at macro level) has been defined and continues to be
redefined by everyone else and Hindus are not wising up to it. If they have, they are in minority.

Of course the presumption is that if micro (identity) and macro levels are (society and practices) not addressed and changed, we will self-destruct (SD) both as a nation and state. The scope of this thread is to explore changes that are needed for us to survive and flourish (SF). The goal is then to chart a way to SF from SD.

The seeds of destruction have been sown long time ago, by various vested groups, and we have ample threads to cover those effects, activities and aspects. But, we do not have threads to proffer and discuss ideas & steps to counter those. That however is not the scope of this particualr thread. Members, feel free to start discussions on that front. These discussions as such will be reactive.

The disucssions in thread, however are proactive, and will be on identifying what those changes could be, how they can be brought about (practical steps). Also feel free to disagree if one feels that nothing neeeds to be changed (back up such claims). In other words, we are already flourishing and there is no need to change anything in so far as Hindus' ability to pursue four purusharthas fearlessly and confidently in our own land (or elsewhere).

We may have to spawn off multiple threads depending on 3 or 4 such topics (changes that are needed either at micro and/or macro levels). The topics could be, for example: Developing Hindu (friendly) Media, Conversion to Hinduism, etc ....

There may be few tens of such high level topics, but we can pick 3 or so and focus on that for starters. Please also suggest how best we can structure the discussions.
A good medium of communication is utube, if Hindu related documentaries can be uploaded it will also help spread our culture.

Now I know Hindu/Indian related documentaries are few and far between but they are there I think, remember that "Lost temples of India" documentary, things like that.

I don't get any channels other than 4 or 5 free ones so I can't upload.

There is one old documentary by NOVA on Ramanujan "The man who loved numbers" broadcast originally in 1988 but I haven't been able to find it.

Many people are more receptive to ideas in the form of documentaries and other visual media rather than though reading books.
From another forum

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Scholarly Mischief</b>

Lacking a broad understanding of the subject, and probably intentionally aiming at hurting Hindu sentiments for political gain, some scholars, particularly Indian Marxists, have emphasized the meat-eating side of Hindu practices. They like to quote a few instances of possible eating of beef in ancient Vedic texts, which they highlight or exaggerate, as if this invalidated the numerous Hindus who have been vegetarian or makes a mockery of Hindu teachings about the subject.

We should point out that no Buddhist country in the world today is predominantly vegetarian. Tibetan and Japanese monks eat meat, including red meat (even the Dalai Lama). To my knowledge, only the Chinese Buddhist monks today are still vegetarian. Yet this does not mean that non-violence, respect for animals or even promotion of vegetarianism are not Buddhist or are opposed to Buddha Dharma.

In ancient times, there was an even greater diversity of culture, education, agricultural practices and life-styles among the different peoples of the subcontinent of India that Hindu teachings reached, including several nomadic groups. These different groups were given their freedom in determining their diet and culture, which in some instances included meat eating.

Yet when meat eating was resorted to it was encouraged to be done only as a sacrifice, a sacred ritual, often only performed on special occasions, not in the modern consumerist manner, much less the American style of beef for dinner every night.

If we look at the whole of the Rig Veda, which is the oldest and the longest Vedic text (routinely said to be anywhere from 3500 to 5000 years old), the main Vedic offerings are ghee (ghrita), honey (madhu), Soma, milk (go, payas), yogurt (dadhi), grain (yava) and other plant and dairy products, which are mentioned hundreds of times. Soma, a plant juice, is said to be the supreme offering to the Gods.

References to actual animal sacrifices do exist in the Rig Veda but are relatively few, only a handful, and even these are often highly symbolic. Animal sacrifice (pashu bandhu) is outlined in several Vedic texts as one of many different possible offerings, not as the main offering. Even so, the animal could only be killed along with special mantras and rituals. The killing of the bull is not mentioned as a type of pashu bandhu. The goat is the main animal used. A special horse sacrifice also existed (ashvamedha) but was a royal ritual taking an entire year to consecrate a single animal for the sacrifice, not a common article of food!

Yet there are a few possible instances referring to the sacrifice of bulls (not of female cows). These might have been symbolic but could have occurred in some communities, particularly of a cow herding type that had too many bulls, or perhaps in times of famine when other food was not available. Such possible rare instances cannot be entirely disproved, but certainly were not common either.

The Rig Veda also abounds with the honoring of the sacred nature of the cow, which similarly occurs in hundreds of instances, and continues throughout the entire Hindu tradition. Indeed the Vedic word for cow (gau), also means the earth, the Goddess, a ray of light, the senses, the soul, knowledge, the word and many other mystic meanings, reflecting its depth of connections to the Vedic mind. The care of the cow is a much more important Vedic theme, than any animal sacrifices.

One method of distortion that certain politically minded scholars use is what I would call, 'using an exception to create the rule'. Pointing out a few possible instances of eating beef in Vedic texts cannot be made into a rule for discrediting the great history of cow protection in India. A few Christian monastic groups were vegetarian as well. This cannot be used to make Christianity as we know it into a vegetarian tradition.

As Hinduism is such an ancient and many-sided religion practiced by a diversity of peoples and cultures, scholars can find such exceptions on almost any matter to make such points. Hindus also have numerous sacred texts, none of which they have to follow literally.

Another method of anti-Hindu scholars is to find something objectionable in some obscure Hindu text, perhaps thousands of years old, which not at all binding, relevant or even known to Hindus today. One can similarly find something objectionable in the ancient literature of any country. Hindus, unlike followers of other religions, are not compelled to literally believe or mindlessly follow what any Hindu text might say, particularly Hindu works on social practices (dharma sutras), which were always subject to modification relative to the needs of time, place, person and culture. This is quite unlike the Islamic Sharia lawcode, which is regarded as binding for all Muslims today. One can just as well point out objectionable practices in Christian lawcodes of the Middle Ages as indicating what Christianity is today!

To deal with such distortions, Hindus should know their religion better. They should be aware of the diversity of Hindu groups and practices historically and geographically. What Hindu Dharma overall promotes is a recognition of the sacred. This includes honoring the diversity of life in terms of individuals, cultures, plants, animals and the entire world of nature. Hindu vegetarianism arose out of that recognition and should be viewed in that context.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^references please, esp. author and URL. Not siting that will be "Scholarly Mischief" <!--emo&Tongue--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I searched the forum for a place to put this; and this thread seems the best, since Dr. Kalyanaraman exemplifies what we need to do to preserve Hindu Identity. The questions are about Setu early on, but later they are about Indic issues in general..

<b>The youngest nation on the globe should become the brightest to lead the comity of nations on the path of dharma</b>. - Dr.S.Kalyanaraman
25/12/2007 04:49:52 By B.R.Haran for Haindavakeralam

Dr.S.Kalyanaraman was born on 20th October 1939. Despite belonging to a Tamil Brahmin Family, he had his school & undergraduate education in Telugu & Sanskrit in Andhra Pradesh. He is very well conversant with Tamil, Telugu, Kannada, Sanskrit and Hindi languages, apart from English. He graduated from Annamalai University in Economics & Statistics. He has a Doctorate in Public administration from the University of Phillipines. After having served as a Member of the Indian Railway Accounts Service from 1962, he joined The Asian Development Bank in 1978 based at Manilla, Phillipines. Since 1995, after his return from Phillipines, he has been working on Sarawathi River Research Project through his "Saraswathi Sindhu Research Center" based in Chennai. He has also presented a Paper on his research findings in the 10th World Sanskrit Conference. He has devoted himself to promote the projects for the revival of Saraswathi River. He has authored several volumes on Saraswathi Culture and Civilisation.

Dr.Kalyanaraman's Master Piece is "An Etymological Dictionary of South Asian Languages" published by Asian Development Bank, Manilla, Phillipines, which can be called as a "Landmark" in the world of languages, linguistics and culture. It is considered as a lexicon & encyclopaedia. His other notable work is Indian Alchemy:Soma in the Veda. He has also contributed to Professor Debiprasad Chattopadhyaya's multi-volume work on History of Science and Technology in Ancient India. In simple words, Dr.Kalyanaraman is a Great Cultural Archealogist!

He has been spearheading the Rameshwaram Rama Sethu Protection Movement right from the beginning and we caught up with him in Chennai for an exclusive interview for Haindvakeralam.

Namaste Dr.Kalyanaraman ji! First of all, Please accept our hearty & sincere congratulations for all that you have done for the Protection of Rama Sethu.

HK: Rameshwaram Rama Sethu Protection Movement has come a long way in the last one year. Can you briefly tell us what led to the formation of this movement and how it got started?

S.Kalyana Raman(SKR):Swayamsevaks were performing their seva work among the coastal people of India to enable them to overcome the disastrous consequences of the devastating tsunami which struck on Dec. 26, 2004. While this seva was continuing, the Central Government inaugurates a Setusamudram Channel Project in Madurai on 2 July 2005 with a lot of fanfare, despite opposition to it by the marine people. This led to an intolerable situation of adding insult to injury as the people realized that the project disaster was being put on the fast track with little care for the fisherfolks' livelihood.

What added to the hurt of the people was the choice of a channel alignment cutting through Rama Setu, the only living monument in memory of Sri Rama. When even 35 lakh signatures of concerned people submitted to the President of India, Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam evoked no response, the Rameshwaram Rama Setu Protection Movement began.

HK: People across the world are eager to know about the main office bearers who are involved in the RRSPM and the major activities taken up by the movement towards the main objective of Protecting the Rama Sethu. As the President of RRSPM, can you please highlight those things?

SKR:The founders of the movement are people of Rameshwaram, a place revered for the S'ivalingas installed by Sri Rama, Sri Sita Devi and Sri Hanuman. D. Kuppuramu, Advocate of Ramanathapuram founded the movement and lodged a case in Ramanathapuram Court on behalf of Swami Omkarananda. RRSPM is now a national movement to create awareness among the citizens of the world on the imperative of protecting the world heritage that is Rama Setu and to look for projects to care for the marine people along the long 8000 km. coastline of India. It is a non-governmental, non-profit forum, not affiliated with any political party of concerned citizens from all parts of the country. All sadhus and sants are at the vanguard of this movement and with their guidance, the Raksha Manch is organized in every region of the country. There are also supporting organizations in other countries of the world. Shri S. Vedantam, Working President of VHP is the National General Secretary and has many National Secretaries including D. Kuppuramu, Raghavulu.

HK: How well coordinated is this movement with other Hindu Organizations across the Nation? Has the awareness been created across the country? What sort of supports are you getting from other states?

SKR: The movement gained strength when Rashtriya Swayam Sevak Sangh passed a resolution calling for the protection of Rama Setu. Not only Hindu organizations but many other communities are also supporting and participating in this movement. That awareness was created across the country was demonstrated on September 12, 2007 when over 12 lakh people participated in chakka-jam awareness campaign for two hours in over 5,400 locations. This was a stunning demonstration of a peoples' movement and their aakrosh at the attempts made to devastate a world heritage monument, much like the Taliban demolishing the Buddha pratimaa calling it mere stone. The support from and the resolve shown by almost all the 6 lakh plus villages of the nation is total and an inspiration to the movement.

HK : You have the state units of RSS, VHP and BJP in Tamil Nadu. You also have the Hindu Munnani. Are you all united and work under the banner of RRSPM? Are those units having separate activities also?

SKR: The remarkable part of the Rameshwaram Rama Setu Raksha Manch is that whatever the affiliations of people, the platform and fora provided by the Manch is open to everyone and programs drawn up under the guidance of the sadhus and sants are followed up unitedly. So, it is natural that people from the organizations mentioned are also part of the Manch. As far as the Manch focus is concerned, there is only one united peoples' movement.

HK: Are you satisfied with the support you are getting from the other Hindu organizations, spiritual organizations and Mutts? What about the help you are getting from other intellectuals and experts from various fields?

SKR: It is a privilege to be guided by our sadhus and sants. They are the protectors of dharma. It is heartening that many intellectuals and experts from many fields have endorsed the awareness campaigns of the Manch. Over 8000 pages of scientific evidences were submitted to the Courts and other fora on the imperative of protecting Rama Setu and abandoning the Setu channel which is a project disaster from economic, ecological, security and national sovereignty perspectives.

HK: What is the reason for the adamancy shown by the UPA in the state and the UPA in the centre in demolishing the Rama Sethu?

SKR: In coalition politics, there are demands made by coalition partners. Unfortunately, the Setu Channel project has been demanded without carefully evaluating the disastrous consequences of the project. As parties realize the seriousness of the adverse impacts, they have abandoned their support to the project. Irrespective of the alignments discussed, the key issue which has not been given attention is: for whose benefit is the project? If the objective is to reach out to the marine people, there is an alternative of setting up Marine Economic Zones along the coastline. For example, marine people of Nagapattinam, Thiruvarur, Pudukottai, Ramanathapuram, Thuthukudi, Kanyakumari district contribute to the annual earning of Rs. 2000 crores foreign exchange through marine product exports. This earning will be gone and the marine people impoverished if the channel is in place because both the channel and the marine industries cannot coexist. There is potential to increase the annual foreign exchange earnings from these six districts alone to Rs. 10,000 crores in the next two years. This will be an effective developmental project and can be pursued with urgency instead of harping upon the Setu channel project disaster. There is no such channel in the mid-ocean anywhere in the world. It will be foolhardy for the nation to venture on a risky enterprise like this unprotected channel which is an invitation to the next tsunami to devastate the coastline of India. I would only say that it is a mark of statesmanship to backdown when a project has been shown to be unviable and instead to promote Marine Economic Zone to develop the country's economy and the livelihoods of marine people.

HK: UPA often goes to the Defensive mode by saying that the project was originally devised by NDA, and that they are only continuing from where the NDA had left. Is it true that the NDA had chosen this particular alignment affecting the Rama Sethu?

SKR:I have gone through the details of the project including all the studies done during the British regime. It should be noted that after the tsunami of Dec. 26, 2004, the project should not have been approved and inaugurated on 2 July 2005 without studying the serious implications of another tsunami through the chosen channel passage in the mid-ocean. The problem has assumed very serious proportions. On 6 Sept. 2007, the renowned Nature magazine came out with a scientists' warning that another tsunami more devastating than the 2004 tsunami is coming which will put at risk 6 to 7 crore people along the coastline. It is disheartening that this warning has not been heeded. All projects along the coastline should be suspended until a multi-disciplinary team examines the warning and until protective measures such as tsunami walls of Japan are put in place. Ensuring safety of the people and integrity of the coastline are the fundamental duties of the state.

HK: Does RRSPM focus only on protection of Rama Sethu or is it totally against the SSCP as well? What are the reasons?

SKR: RRSPM is totally against the SSCP not only because it destroys the world heritage monument of Rama Setu but also because there are other project alternatives such as Marine Economic Zone to improve the livelihood of the nations' citizens and to achieve the vision of Developed India 2020.

HK : Both the UPA and the DPA deny the existence of Rama Sethu by saying that it is only a natural formation. The Culture Minister Ms.Ambika Soni has also asserted in the parliament that there is no scientific evidence for the existence of Rama Sethu. Your views?

SKR: The Madras HC gave a 11-page judgement accepting the evidences. The evidences includedSadcartographic, archaeological, sculptural (including sculptures in Brahmavana temple in Indonesia, published by Archaeological Survey of India in their reports), numismatic, epigraphic, literary, Asiatic Research Society proceedings, Manual of Madras Presidency 1903, Ramanathapuram District Gazetteer 1972, satellite imaging, oceanographic studies, geological including geotectonic and geothermal studies that Rama Setu is a world heritage monument, a man-made physical structure on top of a geological feature of collapsed canyons. Even a copper plate inscription of Parantaka Chola of 10 th century (called Velanjeri copper plate) was shown which mentions that the Chola king went to Rameshwaram to offer setutirtham and tulaabhaaram. Even the Cilappadikaram a Tamil classic by a Jaina Muni, Ilango Adigal, which has given Kannagi the embodiment of Tamil paramparaa refers to Sri Rama and Rama Setu. It is unfortunate that some people indulge in suggestio falsi and suppressio veri denying the evidences.

HK: The TN Chief Minister Mr.Karunanidhi had ridiculed repeatedly Lord Rama, Ramayana and Rama Sethu hurting the religious sentiments of millions of Hindus world wide. What was the reaction from RRSPM and how did the people of Tamil Nadu react to it?

SKR: The reaction was shown on Sept. 12, 2007 by the aakrosh of over 12 lakh people (including over 8000 people of Tamilnadu who courted arrest in over 400 places). This aakrosh also found its echo in the Supreme Court which remarked: 'Don't play with fire'. The government realized the enormity of the blunder and withdrew the sworn affidavits submitted to the Supreme Court. Some cases are ongoing under Section 305 of IPC which prohibits hurting of any community's sentiments and also related to Contempt of Court proceedings.

HK:After committing to the Supreme Court and gaining three months time, the center constituted a "Committee of Eminent Persons on SSCP", which was not welcomed by RRSPM. Can you tell us why and explain how the Committee worked?

SKR: The Committee composition was not transparent and was biased in favor of those who had earlier publicly supported the SSCP. What was announced as a public hearing became a private hearing and the Committee did NOT consult the people concerned, nor did they get the opinions of experts from many fields. Though the Committee was advertised in all language dailies, submissions were asked for only in English and the limited hearing for a few days were held only in Chennai. This negated the offer made in the Supreme Court that the highest traditions of democracy and transparcncy will be followed to receive objections, comments and suggestions. Many concerned peoples' voices were not heard.

HK: Now since the Committee has given its recommendations for the continuance of SSCP in the same alignment, do you foresee the lifting of "Stay" given by the Supreme Court? If so, what will be your future course of action?

SKR: There is only a newspaper report. The case is subjudice in the Supreme Court which had repeatedly noted that the Committee was not appointed by the Court and that it was only a Government Committee. The Court has observed that after Government decides on the Committee report, the Court can be approached again with all objections. If the stay is vacated the whole case becomes infructuous since the petitioners persistently demand that the sacred monument Rama Setu, the stunning symbol of nation's identity, should not be touched.

HK:The TN government has been saying that the SSCP would bring all round prosperity to the Coastal districts of Tamil Nadu. As you are against the SSCP, do you have any other suggestion, in place of SSCP, for the TN government, which will bring prosperity to the coastal areas?

SKR: The non-viable nature of the channel project makes it a project disaster with little contributions to the prosperity of the coastal regions. The channel means the destruction of the peoples' lives dependent upon marine resources. The situation created is: either the channel or fishing, NOT both. The alternative to SSCP is Marine Economic Zones (MEZ) in each of the states all along the long 8000 km. coastline of the nation. The fish landings have increased five-fold in the last 40 years. If these resources are harnessed in a sustainable manner through Marine Economic Zones, Tamilnadu coast alone can contribute upto Rs. 10,000 in foreign exchange earnings per annum through export of marine products. A note on the MEZ is attached. (Click Here for More on MEZ )

HK: Do you believe that there is an International level conspiracy, particularly from the American side, to destroy Rama Sethu? If so, why should they conspire and what benefits would they get from it?

SKR: PMO raised in March 2005 16 objections to the SSCP with particular reference to the tsunami of Dec. 26, 2004 and expert opinions of people like Dr. Tad S Murty, the renowned tsunami expert. The answers were given by Chairman SSCP on 30 June. The inauguration of the project took place on 2 July 2005. Surprisingly, on 23 June 2005, a US Navy Operational Directive was issued stating that the waters of Gulf of Mannar-Palk Strait are international waters, that the USA does not recognize the joint claim of India and Srilanka that these are 'Historic waters' (under the Indira Gandhi-Sirimavo Bandaranaike June 1974 declaration). The inauguration of the project on 2 July 2005 lends legitimacy to this US Directive acknowledging that the channel alignment is in effect the international waters boundary. Thus, the historic waters declaration has been abandoned, impacting upon National Sovereignty. This was brought out in the statement and letter to PM addressed by the former Supreme Court Justice VR Krishna Iyer. The proximity of the world major thorium reserves as coastal sand placer deposits – monazite, ilmenite, rutile zircon, garnet -- (32 percent of the world reserves) in the coastline close to Rama Setu makes this creation of international boundary as Setu channel a kaarasthan (conspiratorial place) leading to the loot of thorium reserves and adversely impacting the nation's nuclear power programme for which use of thorium is central, instead of using imported uranium.

HK:Thanks a lot Dr.Kalyanaraman ji. As we have talked about America , let us move to the subject of Indo-US Nuclear Deal.

As a keen observer of this nationally important issue, what are your opinions on this? Is the deal good for the country? How bright are the chances for the deal to go through? Will the UPA finally attain success despite a stiff opposition from the Left and BJP?

SKR: Talking of the Left Front, which is not ready to face elections in the states controlled by them, there is also a need to refer to the UPA coalition partners who do not also want to face elections. There is a mating dance in process. The deal will be operationalised. Elections will be deferred. The deal is not good for the country since it shrinks the nation's sovereignty and does not put the thorium-based nuclear program on a fast track to make the nation self-reliant and gain energy independence.

HK: What do you feel about the intermittent interference of the Left front in the governance of the UPA and what do you feel about their own governance in West Bengal and Kerala? What is your opinion on the CPI(M) brutalities in Nandigram and Kannur?

SKR:What happened in Nandigram, killing poor innocent people and raping children, is a national shame. Communist parties should be banned in the nation since they have shown that the party cadre interests are supreme and override national interests, since they lack any ideology to promote peoples' welfare and since democratic governance has completely collapsed with subversion of the Constitution day-in and day-out.

HK:. As a Senior & Reputed Official retired from Asian Development Bank, How do you view the present economic surge happening in Bharat? Are we, as a developing country, going in the right track?

SKR:The economic surge is a mirage and has not reached the poorest of the poor, particularly those in the 6 lakh plus villages. The continuing impoverishment of the villagers has not been recognized as a serious national problem. The nation can be energized if people are empowered under dharma. One approach to achieve this empowerment, is to work for a National Water Grid to ensure water to everyone, to add 9 crore acres of additional wetland distributed to 9 crore poor families of the nation.

HK . You are doing a great service to our nation through your "Saraswati Research Foundation". We would like to know more about the objectives, achievements and future plans of the foundation.

SKR:I have been a student of Hindu civilization studies. We have two itihasa-s: Ramayana and Mahabharata, two great epics exemplified by Rama Setu and River Sarasvati respectively. River Sarasvati goes back to Vedic times with references in the Vedas. The objective of the foundation is to create a Hindu civilization online resource library to reach out to the youngest nation of the world, with 35% of the population less than 15 years of age. The handing over of the deepam of Hindu civilization is my social responsibility, my discharge of the rinam to the samajam which has given me my identity and the very raison d'etre for my existence.

HK . As a Proud devout Hindu, do you feel that the Hindu majority are enjoying their fundamental religious rights in our country? Are they undergoing different kinds of sufferings in different states? Do you feel the need of a separate legal team for the cause of Hindutva in all the states?

SKR:Everyone in India is a Hindu. Even the Muslims and Christians of India can trace their hindu ancestry with pride. Politicking has led to creation of vote banks promoted on false propaganda of divisiveness in a united samajam. Yes, indeed, Hindutva which is the identity of the Hindu civilization, needs to be the cause to be promoted everywhere. Hence, my website: www.hindu-tva.com

HK . What is your opinion about the mainstream media in India? Are they justified in their approach, reporting and handling of situations? Do you feel that they are neutral& unbiased?

SKR:Many media reports make for very sick reading. Day-in and day-out politicos look for photo-ops and unfortunately, the media people promote these desires by pampering the politico-s and highlighting their foibles and fancies. Such pampering leads to biased representation of the priorities of the samajam. The media is out of sync with the aspirations of the samajam.

HK . The state of TN has been under the Dravidian regime for the last 40 years. There has been a sustained campaigning to separate "Tamils" from the "Hindu" fold. Is the Tamil Hindu community aware of such a nefarious design? Are there any hopes for the state to get totally relieved from the Dravidian onslaught?

SKRBig Grinravida according to Patanjali refers to a people eating tamarind. It is thus simply a regional connotation. Conflating Dravidian and Aryan as races is a historical fraud committed by motivated indologists and lapped up by self-serving politicos. The narrow identities have to be replaced by the Hindu identity under dharma, the cosmic, eternal ordering principle.

HK . In many parts of Tamil Nadu, Christian Missionaries have become very active and similarly Islamic fundamentalism is also on the increase. Is there a Dravidian-Minority nexus? If so, how can the Hindu organizations counter them?

SKR:Many people are at work to promote their nefarious designs and with motivated agendas. There is a Mullah-Marxist-Missionary nexus in operation to breakup the unity of the Hindu samajam. The only way to counter is to build up on the Hindu identity and everyone in India should feel proud of being a Hindu, irrespective of their current affiliations to mathams or panthas.

HK . The ethnic Indians in general and Hindus in particular, are being persecuted in other nations such as Pakistan , Bangladesh, Gulf countries and the latest being Malaysia. Nepal has also lost its Hindu identity. Do you feel that, India must raise its voice in support of those people? Will such an action from India be respected by those countries or will it get the support of other countries?

SKR:It is the moral responsibility of India to fight for the causes of Hindus everywhere. This is the nation's destiny. Hence, the website: http://malayindians.blogspot.com

HK : We at Haindava Keralam are extremely glad and thankful Dr.Kalyanaraman ji, for having kindly allocated a portion of your time among the busiest schedules to us. Is there any special message for us and our readers as well?

SKR:It is the dharma of every Hindu to light a deepam and hand it over to the next generation. We owe a debt to our pitr-s, our ancestors, The way to discharge this debt is to keep the deepam burning bright. The youngest nation on the globe should become the brightest to lead the comity of nations on the path of dharma.

(Another Related Interview on Ram Sethu came in Organiser )

See how anger mounted in this village. Anger has to mount all over India. That will ensure Hindu survival. When every person (every Hindu, at least) in India is angry at the islamist/missionaries and their apologists and media henchmen.

Reciprocity and Hindu anger
Francois Gautier
August 19, 2008

Once upon a time, there was a tiny village in South Arcot district in Tamil Nadu, called Kuilapalayam. Now Kuilapalayam is like hundreds of villages around Pondichery: it is peopled with Hindu Vanniars, poor, living off agriculture, usually a few meagre fields of cashew nuts. But then Kuilapalayam just happened to be in the midst of Auroville, the international township founded by the Mother of Pondichery based upon the ideals of the great yogi and revolutionary, Sri Aurobindo.

Thus Kuilapalayam prospered: Its inhabitants learned trades needed for the city: carpenters, masons, craftsmen, and some of its children attended Auroville's schools and were educated along with Western kids and in time graduated and went into white collar jobs. From a few bicycles 40 years ago, Kuilapalayam today has motorcycles, tractors, cars, vans, cable television, cell phones, etc. The main road of Kuilapalayam, which used to be only shady huts, became lined with fancy shops which sold everything, from vegetables to handicrafts.

And then the unavoidable happened: A Kashmiri from Chennai heard about Auroville and the prosperity of Kuilapalayam and understanding that he could make a packet with so many Westerners passing though Auroville, he opened the usual shawls and carpets shop in the village. Now Kuilapalayam never counted a Muslim amongst its population in its 1,200 years of recorded history; but in true Hindu tradition, this one was welcomed and nobody raised any objection, although he was competition for some of the other shops.

Our Kashmiri Muslim, seeing his success, called his cousin in Kolkata, who came and opened another shop; and that one phoned his friend in Mumbai, who also landed up and opened a third shop. Still nobody found anything to say. Kashmiris are sociable fellows and they quickly made friends with Westerners, so business was booming, till they were seven or eight Kashmiri shops in Kuilapalayam. And again nobody complained, even when the fellows started doing their naamaz in the open. "Isn't God everywhere and isn't He Krishna, as well as Allah?" said one of the villagers.

Then Rathinam, one of the young boys of Kuilapalayam who had gone to study in Delhi [Images], told his parents when he came back, about the fact that not only were no outsiders allowed to buy land or start a shop in the valley of Kashmir, where the shopkeepers came from, but that 400,000 Hindus were chased out of the valley by terror. His parents started talking to their friends and there was the first hint of resentment against the newcomers.

Fifteen days later, the Amarnath row exploded. Rathinam's father went to see a group of Kuilapalayam Kashmiris having tea and told them that Hindus never complained about the government giving billion of rupees in subsidies to Indian Muslims so that they can visit their most holy place, Mecca. But when Hindus, he continued, need shelters, toilets and basic facilities at a height of 15,000 feet to worship at Amarnath, one of the holiest places of Hinduism, why do you Kashmiri Muslims deny it to us?

The Kashmiris looked a bit uneasy, then replied that anyway the Amarnath ice lingam had been discovered by a Muslim shepherd and that Muslims had always welcomed their Hindu brothers to Armanath. But this did not convince the Kuilapalayam man who had heard from his son that many grenade attacks had happened over the years on the Amarnath pilgrims. <b>And anger has started mounting in Kuilapalayam.</b>

So, it is all a question of reciprocity. Most Hindus are peace-loving people. The average Hindu that you meet in a million Indian villages, such as Kuilapalayam, is easy-going and accepts you and your diversity, whether you are Christian, Muslim, Parsi or Jain, Arab, French or Chinese. He goes about his business and usually does not interfere in yours.

In fact, Hindus go even a little further, they hate trouble and go out of their way to avoid it. Have you noticed how every time there is a possibility of a strike or riot, Hindus stay home? Or how -- forget about rioting -- Hindus never speak up, complain or protest in a united manner? There is a UN Human Rights Conference on terrorism in New York coming up on September 9, and they have been desperately trying to get Hindu survivors of recent bomb blasts to testify; but no one is willing to come forward.

Despite that, everywhere in the world Hindus are hounded, humiliated, routed, be it in Fiji where an elected democratic government was twice deposed in an armed coup, or in Pakistan and Bangladesh where Muslims indulge in pogroms against Hindus every time they want to vent their anger against India (read Taslima Nasreen's [Images] Lajja to know more).

In Assam, Tripura, or Nagaland, Hindus are being outnumbered by Bangladeshi illegal immigrants and terrorised by pro-Christian separatist groups while local governments often turn a blind eye.

Yet, in 3,500 years of known existence, Hindus have never invaded another country, never tried to impose their religion upon others through force or even conversion. No, rather it has been through peaceful invasions that Hinduism has stormed the world, whether in the East -- witness Angkor Vat -- or in the West today, where the by-products of Hinduism -- yoga, meditation, Ayurveda, pranayama -- have been adopted by millions.

Hindus also gave refuge to all the persecuted minorities of the world, from Parsis to the Jews (India is the only country in the world where Jews were not persecuted) to Armenians and Tibetans today. The first Christian community of the world, that of Syrian Christians, flourished in Kerala [Images], thanks to Hindus' tolerance; Arab merchants were welcomed by Hindu rulers to do trade and live in India while practicing their religion, from very early times.

Thus Hindus, who accept everybody and welcome all religions, allow Indians from other parts to trade next to them, as it happened in Kuilapalayam, do not receive in return any gratitude and the same respect.

So, sometimes, enough is enough. At some point, after years or even centuries of submitting like sheep to slaughter, Hindus, the most peace-loving people in the world, those Mahatma Gandhi [Images] once gently called 'cowards', those who cringe in their houses at the least sign of a riot, erupt in fury, uncontrolled fury.

Instead of trying to pour water over the fire, instead of appealing for calm and communal harmony, political leaders, journalists as well as spiritual leaders would do well to look at the root cause of Hindu fury, and try to address their demands and frustrations.
<b>*** THE IDEA OF INDIA ***</b>


The idea of India is a conception often credited by our English-speaking “secular” elite to Mahatma Gandhi, Pandit Nehru or Sunil Khilnani, not necessarily in that order.

Our British colonizers too gave themselves credit for it, with an echo by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on July 8, 2005 at Oxford University. It is they, he said, who gave us our notions of the rule of law, of a Constitutional government, of a free press, of a professional civil service, of modern universities and research laboratories, our judiciary, our legal system, our bureaucracy, the English language, and cricket.[1] Mr Singh on that occasion did make the token nod to “India’s ancient civilization”, but it is clear he believes we did not have these notions before the British blessed us with them. Regrettably, he omitted mentioning the railways that are supposed to have knitted us together and, for universal school education, he omitted making the conventional ascription to British missionaries[2].

In point of fact, however, the historical conception of the one-ness of what in English is called “India” goes back at least 6000 years to the Rig Veda[3]. It is important to understand this history because the name we give ourselves or that others give us provides us with a social and political identity and meaning, so that “India” says something about how we see ourselves and how others see us.

The citizens of India are called Indians, as distinguished from the followers of a “religion” called Hinduism[4]. At the same time, the indigenous peoples in many parts of the world are called “Indians”. “Indian” was frequently a Western imperial and pejorative label for dark-coloured indigenes and, at least till the end of the 14th century (a Vijaynagar inscription c.1393 referring to the emperor as “Hindurayasuratrana”), that is, just about 600 years ago in the history of our civilization going back at least 9,000 years, we had no such thing as “Hinduism”. So let us see how we got our name, and the meanings often connected with it.

The word “India” is the pronunciation in English of the Greek pronunciation of the Iranian pronunciation of the Sanskrit word “sindhu”, which was our own name in our own language for the mighty river called Indus which has always been a major landmark for travellers to our country from lands to our northwest.

The ancient Iranians - or Persians, as they used to be called - found difficulty in pronouncing the initial “s” of “sindhu”, so they called it “hindu” – the word occurs for the first time in the Avesta of the ancient Iranians, and they used it to describe generally this land and all the people in it. From Iran the word passed to Greece where it became Indus, with variations among the ancient Arabs, Turks, Mongolians, and Chinese (the last saying “shin-tu”) who came into contact with us to study, trade or conquer.

This word “Hindu” is not found in any of our ancient texts. It is nowhere in the Vedas; it is nowhere in our epics, nor in the Bhagavad Gita, the Upanishads, nor in any of the treatises of Yoga. It does not appear in any of our indigenous languages, not till the 7th century when it was brought in by the Islamic invaders. The Chinese pilgrim Hiuen Tsang who visited our country between 630 and 645 AD reports that while “shin-tu” or its variants could be heard outside our borders, it was unknown within our country. Even after Islamic rule was established in our country, the word did not gain popular currency and was not used, at least till the 14th century, except by the Islamic rulers to refer to the non-Muslim population as a whole of this land.

So, it is quite clear that, to begin with, “Hindu” was a foreign word. It was not a “religious” description. It was a purely geographical label, initially describing the land and people in the vicinity of the Sindhu river but gradually spreading to cover all parts of this country and its people. It can be said that the word “Hindu” acquired a pan-Indian connotation from ancient Iranian times - but this was only in the speech of foreigners, and even with them it did not indicate any distinction of class, caste or creed. To emphasize, it was merely a foreign geographical description, and “Hindustan” was the land of the “Hindus”. How from being a geocultural description this was made into a “religious” label is another story.

Thus, the word we have adopted to describe our country and ourselves evolved as a word foreign to us. Over the millennia, this word has acquired a number of meanings that foreigners associated with us, and many of which we have internalized. Most of these meanings are not complimentary. In fact, most frequently, in the post-colonial international eye, India stands for overpopulation, poverty, dirt and corruption, and the majority of our people are believed to be lazy other-worldly Hindus. Remember that it was an Indian who made an international joke of what he cunningly called “the Hindu rate of growth”[5] – conveniently forgetting, of course, that in pre-colonial times it was this same rate of growth that resulted in making us what the historian KM Ashraf described as “the wealthiest colossus of the world”. How British colonial rule reduced us from being one of the richest lands to becoming one of the poorest is also another story.[6]

It is a well-known phenomenon that, in an unequal power relation, the weaker tries to model itself on what is commonly perceived to be the stronger, and so one of the legacies of centuries of colonial rule (compounding the dhimmitude ingrained in us by Islamic rule) is that we still try to invent ourselves in ways we think will find us Western approval. The West gave us (among other things) our name, its concept of the nation, its modern value system, its political system and our political boundaries, its understanding of religion and of time, its educational system, its view of female beauty and of masculinity as machismo so, not surprisingly, it is still to the West we turn for recognition and for affirmation of our identity.

In politics, we define ourselves in Western terms. We have modelled ourselves on the British model of parliamentary democracy. We have a fixed border, limiting ourselves in time and space. We argue that we are, or we are not, a nation, a concept that has come to us from the West. And when we go West, as so many of us hope to do, we try and make it easier for us to be accepted by them by changing our names – or our “religion” - to theirs. Hari becomes Harry; Akanksha, Angie; Kishore, Kevin; Sudha, Sue; Ramsadan, Ramsden; Piyush becomes Bobby and a Catholic. These are actual examples.

Indira Gandhi, when she was harassed by criticism in India, used to go to Europe for approbation, and she was known to have commented that the European press and people were more appreciative of her worth and achievements than the Indian press and people. So dominating is our need to reify ourselves in Western terms that, if I recall correctly, even our philosopher-President Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan explained our dharma as polymorphous monotheism – that is, a monotheism of many shapes – because Christanity is monotheistic and propagates itself as ipso facto superior to all our richly symbolic and fascinating ways of constructing Divinity.

We have internalized the eurocentric view of the world and the need for a foreign affirmation of ourselves and, as long as this need remains, we will always be inferior to the West.

But are we only a construction of the West? Did we never have any word, any name, of our own for ourselves?

If we look at the Constitution of India, we find a very telling phrase that occurs in it but once. This is “India, that is Bhārat,…”. Clearly, the modern Indian Constitution, promulgated in English, sees India as the primary name and, hence, identity, but it does make one mention of a “Bhārat” as a secondary name. Significantly, the Constitution in its Hindi translation reverses this to “Bhārat, that is India…”; significant, because this endeavour at synonymy in fact glosses over, as we shall see, an essential attitudinal dichotomy.

Western social science discourse postulates the concept of The Other that defines identity in terms of opposition (and not complementarity). Thus, the Devil is the Other of God, the Black Man of the White Man, the woman of the man, communism of capitalism, atheism of theism, polytheism of monotheism, and so on.

The Fathers of the Republic of India chose to retain as our primary identity a label of Otherness. But who or what is this Bhārat to which they accorded token recognition?

Bharat was a legendary sage-emperor of our land, and Bhārat is the offspring of Bharat. Therefore, the children of Bharat are Bhārati and the land of the children of Bharat becomes Bhāratvarsha. This was the common name our pre-Islamic ancestors shared for our homeland. It had no fixed political boundaries but was actually the land in which we shared a common spiritual-cultural complex, a civilization. This land (now referred to as Akhand Bhārat) comprised broadly eastern Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Nepal and upto Kailash in Tibet, Bangladesh, and Myanmar, and the shared spiritual-cultural complex was called the sanatana dharma. There was a common name for the land and a common name to include the numerous different ways of worshipping in it, and the evidence is that we shared a single common name for ourselves as a civilization - as the children of Bharat, the Bhāratis or Bhāratvasis.

By the time of the epic Mahabhārata about 5000 years ago[7], the understanding of a shared land and a shared spiritual-cultural complex was well in place. The Mahabhārata presents peoples from the entire subcontinent as a civilizational unity. The Kuru-Panchala kingdom extended through the Gangetic plain. Gandhari, the mother of the Kauravas, was from Gandhara which is now Pakistan and part of Afghanistan. Kunti, the mother of the Pandavas, was of the Yadava clan of what is now Madhya Pradesh in central India. The Pandavas allied with Krishna who was originally of Mathura south of Delhi but who shifted to Dwarka on the Arabian Sea. Krishna’s main enemy was Jarasandha of Magadha or Bihar. In the war of the Mahabhārata, kings participated from as far off as Sindh in the west and Pragjyotish or Assam in the far north-east. In their pilgrimages and victory marches, the Pandavas travelled from Afghanistan to Tibet to Assam to Kanyakumari, and even Sri Lanka is mentioned.

The Vishnupurana has

uttaram yat samudrasya himadreshcaiva daksinam
varsam tad bharatam nama bharati yatra santatih

(Bhārata is the land north of the seas, south of the Himalayas, and where the people are called Bhārati.)

Thus, there cannot be any doubt whatever that any “idea of India” pre-dates by centuries both the British and the Muslims, and can be traced back culturally to the very wellsprings of our civilization[8]. The devious, insidious, widespread and (even today) official propagation of the diametrically opposed macaulayan myth[9] has had horrendous consequences for our rashtra, for Bhāratvarsha.

Macaulayan mythology denies Bhārat through a false Aryan Invasion Theory and a false Aryan-Dravidian “racial” divide[10]; through false distinctions of “religion”[11]; a false history of caste and tribe[12]; a false claim of foreigners as our civilizers, saviours and educators[13]; and a grotesquely false interpretation of secularism[14].
Macaulayan mythology is designed to further the evangelical manifesto of making Indians become Christians “without knowing it”[15], the macaulayan manifesto of forming “a class of persons, Indian in blood and colour, but English in taste, in opinions, in morals, and in intellect”[16], and the ruinously effective colonial strategy and legacy of destroying Bhārat by dividing-and-ruling it.

What then is significant about Bhārat as the construction of our country?

It is indigenous, evolving from within the psyche of our own people. India is a response to a foreign label; Bhārat is our own name for ourselves. It is self-affirmative. What is common is not defined by political interest or by religious dogma but by spiritual aspiration eventually personified as Bhārat Mata - our land as Mother. It was created through two major means - at the classical or scholarly level by the spread of Sanskrit, and at the popular level by the phenomenon of pilgrimage. And an indigenous universal school education – superior to that that the British had in their own country - played no little part in nurturing it.[17]

The ordinary people of our land, through centuries of foreign rule, retained a sense of an overarching civilizational unity embodied in Bhārat Mata. All as children of Bharat are of one rashtra; we see ourselves with a common ancestor; normatively (and, as now proven, genetically), Bhāratis are one “race”, one people. “India” was always a foreign construct, with a foreign-focused divisive interpretation. The people of “India”, through oppressive foreign rule, internalised a psychological inferiority. Consequently, our macaulayan elite likes to see “India” as progressive, modernising, Westernised; and we distinguish the “Bhārat” of the ordinary non-English speaking people as poor, backward, illiterate, regressive and native. This is an elitist prejudice and unfortunate, apart from being quite untrue.

I lived almost 6 years in the USA – and let me assure readers that the West gives us nowhere near any of the importance we want the West to give us. Yet our macaulayan elite continues to salivate for the West, to become second-class Whites.[18] I sometimes teach MBA students in an upscale b-school; most are quite unfamiliar with the Mahabhārata, even its principal characters. I know of an elitist private school in Delhi whose students described a desi collation of aloo-puri as “sh1t” and refused to eat it. I know MBA students in a premier b-school who described as “s-h-i-t” the cultural personification of knowledge as a goddess and, therefore, to be respected. I know a Punjabi young woman both of whose parents are fluent in Punjabi and her mother still covers her head; but the young lady, educated in an elite missionary college, is fluent neither in Punjabi nor in Hindi nor knows why her subculture’s festival of “lorhi” is celebrated – but proudly declares she’s “secular” and knows the reason for Christmas. In Princeton, I saw schoolchildren playing “ball” by kicking around their book-filled backpacks; in Bhārat, a book that falls to the ground is picked up and touched to one’s head. A successful desi businessman described his wife as his chief asset, and when this was explained to MBA students in terms of a cultural perception of the wife as Lakshmi, many male students laughed. And, no, these are not isolated examples. There are many more, and these represent an emerging mindset, a pattern of civilisational change. It is two different worlds – one in which, for example, food is symbolized as Annapurna and knowledge as Saraswati, and the other that dismisses such imagery scatologically.

That the “idea of India” or, correctly, a comprehension of bhāratiyata, still prevails and holds together our civilization and our remaining land is not because of our macaulayan elite. If “India” can still be thought of as “eternal”, it is thanks not to the citizens of India but to the children of Bharat.

Look around ourselves. From the vast geocultural domain in which the dharma flourished, we steadily began to lose it to violently hostile belief systems, totally antithetical to bhāratiyata, that entered our land. Even after Independence, we continue to lose ground; even today, quite literally.[19] The Republic of India is riven by division. It is founded on a conception of society that is so inherently divisive that we now need to position anti-aircraft guns to protect our prime minister when he celebrates its Independence in our national capital[20].

Bhāratvarsha bases itself on an entirely different conception that is inherently unifying.

Two examples should make this clear:

Bhārat sees all the indigenous panthas and sampradayas as constituents of the dharma, the Constitution of India formally constructed and promotes some of them as distinct and mutually exclusive “religions”;

Bhāratis see themselves as having contextual and fluid identities within the overarching dharmic one; the British privileged and fixed one – that of jāti – and, with their missionaries, made it central to Indian identity[21]; with the Constitution of India following suit, now casteism, vote-bank politics and minority appeasement run rampant in India.

From an anthropological perspective, I believe one root lies in understanding whether the individual is the unit of society or whether the group, but this too becomes another story. [22]

The “idea of India” is, therefore, an insubstantial linguistic expression. Cognitively and experientially, it is bhāratiyata, emerging from the dharma, that still holds us together.

Our name is important, but even more important is that, whatever name we use, we need always to remember that the backbone and strength of our land, our civilization, our rashtra, is bhāratiyata.

India divides; Bhārat unites.

- x -


1. http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/nic/0...speech.htm. This is a fine example of our official school of historiography that claims it is foreign rule that civilized us lawless natives.

2. A totally false ascription; see Dharampal, “The Beautiful Tree”, Mapusa: The Other India Press, 1996.

3. For the date, see NS Rajaram & David Frawley, “Vedic Aryans and the Origins of Civilization”, New Delhi: Voice of India, 2001.

4. It is most emphatically iterated that Hinduism is not a “religion”. It is “dharma”, and there is no equivalent in English to “dharma”. What English commonly understands as “religion” (typically, “recognition of, obedience to, and worship of a higher, unseen power”) is an abrahamic construction with no conceptual equivalent (because of the requirement of “obedience”) in any of our own languages. The dharma does not require a belief in or worship of, much less obedience to, any higher, unseen power by whatever name called, and an atheist is a dharmi too. The words closest to “religion” that we have are “pantha” and “sampradaya”. However, because of our macaulayan system of education, we tend to accept as appropriate the abrahamic construction. (Our macaulayan system of education can be summed up in its subliminal projection of “West is best”; an enduring legacy of TB Macaulay’s notorious Minute on Indian Education in which he stated “a single shelf of a good European library was worth the whole native literature of India…..all the historical information which has been collected from all the books written in the Sanscrit language is less valuable than what may be found in the most paltry abridgments used at preparatory schools in England…..false history, false astronomy, false medicine…a false religion…..absurd history, absurd metaphysics, absurd physics, absurd theology” - http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritche...tion_1835.html).

5. Prof. Raj Krishna of the Delhi School of Economics. Prime Minister Singh too was once on its faculty. It is not without relevance that Mr Singh again parroted a myth when he claimed the Amarnath yatra “was run by Muslims in Kashmir and it is over 180 year old pilgrimage”. In fact, documentation of the yatra pre-dates any Muslim involvement in it and goes back centuries to ancient texts (http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/...mu/350196/).

6. Ashraf, quoted in Akhtar Riazuddin, “History of Handicrafts: Pakistan-India” (Islamabad: National Hijra Council, 1988). “It has been estimated that the total amount of treasure that the British looted from India had already reached Pds 1,000,000,000 (Pds 1 Billion) by 1901. Taking into consideration interest rates and inflation this would be worth close to $1,000,000,000,000 ($1 Trillion) in real-terms today” (Dr Leo Rebello, “My India”, pps, http://www.healthwisdom.org/).

7. For the date, see Rajaram & Frawley, op. cit.

8. David Frawley, “The Rig Veda and the History of India”, New Delhi: Aditya Prakashan, 2001.

9. The British did not accept any notion of the historical unity of the Indian subcontinent; the Muslims do, but credit it to Islam. See Sankrant Sanu, “Why India Is A Nation”, http://sankrant.sulekha.com/ blog/post/2003/10/why-india-is-a-nation.htm, and Dileep Karanth, “The Unity of India”, http://www.swaveda.com/articles.php?action=show&id=47.

10. See, for example, David Frawley, “The Myth of the Aryan Invasion of India”, New Delhi: Voice of India, 2005.

11. See Koenraad Elst, “Who is a Hindu?”, New Delhi: Voice of India, 2002.

12. “All ancient Indian sources make a sharp distinction between the two terms; varna is much referred to, but jāti very little, and when it does appear in literature it does not always imply the comparatively rigid and exclusive social groups of later times. If caste is defined as a system of groups within the class, which are normally endogamous, commensal and craft-exclusive, we have no real evidence of its existence until comparatively late times” - AL Basham, quoted by Arvind Sharma, “What Was Manu Up To?”, http://arvindsharma.wordpress.com/, emphasis added. See also Nicholas Dirks, “Castes of Mind: Colonialism and the Making of Modern India”, Princeton: Princeton University Press, 2001. On the British deliberately and fraudulently excluding “tribe” from the dharmic mainstream, see Sandhya Jain, “Adi Deo Arya Devata”, New Delhi: Rupa, 2004.

13. See, for example, the works of the late Dharampal. See also P Priyadarshi, “Zero Is Not The Only Story”, New Delhi: India First Foundation, 2007.

14. See, for example, the works of the late Sita Ram Goel.

15. The influential British politician and evangelist William Wilberforce, quoted by Dharampal, op. cit. Conversions to Islam are more problematic than conversions to Christianity, but the lower rate is compensated for by the demographic aggression of illegally immigrating Bangladeshi Muslims who are then enabled by a “secular” State to get Indian identities that allow them to vote in and influence Indian elections (see, for example, Samudragupta Kashyap, “Bangla infiltrators now kingmakers in Assam: HC judge”, The Indian Express, July 30, 2008). “Former President Fakhruddin Ali Ahmad, in his neighbouring Assam Lok Sabha constituency, invited Bangladeshis to make his constituency a Muslim majority” (DN Mishra, “Neighbour or invader?”, The Pioneer, Feb 23, 2003). Even President APJ Abdul Kalam prevented the deportation of Muslim aliens (A Mishra, “Kalam responds to SOS; stalls quit India notices”, The Pioneer, Feb 25, 2005). There is no record of any President intervening to return Hindu citizens to Kashmir, and the “secular” State makes little more than token attempts to repel what the Supreme Court bluntly called this “external aggression” (Navin Upadhyay, “Govt failed to protect Assam from external aggression: SC”, The Pioneer, July 15, 2005).

16. Macaulay’s Minute on Indian Education, op. cit. Note how in English our dharmic lore is invariably referred to as “mythology” whereas comparable lore in Christanity and Islam – such as the parthenogenetic birth of Jesus or Mohammad’s excursion on an eagle-winged horse – is not.

17. For Sanskrit, see Karanth, op. cit.; on education, see Dharampal, op. cit.; on pilgrimage, see SM Bharadwaj, “Hindu Places of Pilgrimage in India: A Study in Cultural Geography”, Berkeley: University of California Press, 1973. Both Sanskrit and pilgrimage as unifiers pre-date by millennia not just the railways the British introduced but all other foreign factors to which macaulayans ascribe our civilizational unity.

18. Symptomatic is Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s gratuitous declaration on Sept 25, 2008 in Washington, DC to US President George Bush that “In the last four and half years that I have been Prime Minister, I have been the recipient of your generosity, your affection, your friendship. It means a lot to me and to the people of India…The people of India deeply love you” (http://www.hindu.com/2008/09/27/stories/...171200.htm).

19. Witness the roaring declaration on July 22, 2008 in Parliament by a Kashmir MP that “hum jaan de denge lekin zamin nahi denge” (we will give our lives but not our land) – Omar Abdullah, quoted by Ashok Pandit, “Dark side of freedom”, The Pioneer, Aug 15, 2008. And, “…..the Constitution itself contains the seed for a de facto and de jure separation of even those parts of Kashmir that are physically still within India. Read Art 370 and you will know why even the already broken crown rests so uneasily on our head. By this provision J&K is exempt from many laws that are applicable to the rest of the country, many other constitutional provisions themselves are declared redundant in that State and worse, the operation of even the ‘residual’ laws are subject to the approval of the J & K Assembly! That is, a State Government can overrule the writ of the Union! Indeed, this Article is a dangerous knife in the nation’s stomach, an independence within an independence and a huge mockery of a free, united India” (TR Jawahar, “Freedoms Galore”, http://newstodaynet.com/col.php?section=20&catid=30). Prafull Goradia points out the decline of the Hindu population of the subcontinent from 80% to 60% between 1900 and 2000 AD (”Can Muslims be secular?”, The Pioneer, Apr 7, 2004).

20. http://www.hindu.com/2008/08/15/stories/...240300.htm .

21. It is therefore that Justice C Dharmadhikari can write, “The real component or unit of the Hindus is caste only. The term Hindu is concord of all castes. In Hinduism, caste is real, religion is myth, so it is not even a community” (in Muzaffar Hussain, “Insight into Minoritism”, New Delhi: India First Foundation, 2004:6). On contextual identities and the role of missionaries in singling out one of them, see Dirks, op.cit.

22. “The unit of this democracy is citizen or voter and not the institution or community” - Justice Dharmadhikari, op. cit., page 7. In an insightful essay, Kalyan Viswanathan shows why “Hindus, even though they are a majority in India, do not behave like a majority. They behave more like a large collection of small minorities. While from a spiritual/religious point of view this is not a problem, and India has always valued a certain inherent diversity and a co-existence of different paths, sects and sampradayas, this is a very serious problem from a political standpoint……In any modern democracy (where numbers matter), assembling a coherent identity translates to influence and power…..So unless Hindus learn to forge together a larger overarching identity, and start behaving like a more coherent and homogenous group, they are in for trouble…..Hindus will inevitably come out losers in their own country where they are supposedly a majority” (K Viswanathan, “Hindu Identity: why and why not”, http://www.sanatanadharmafoundation.com/, Aug 17, 2008). Questions, then, are not just of the need for Hindu political self-consciousness but of the aptness of Western-style so-called “modern” democracy (that is solely number/individual-based) to the bhāratiya ethos and to the survival of Bhārat. Justice Dharmadhikari goes on to say “the perfect Indian citizen of this nation is one who considers India as his motherland and possesses a special kind of love for it…” (op. cit., page – and there you have it, the India/Bhārat muddle and mismatch. It is Bhārat Mata, not India Mata (all that pop-culture on Indian TV that sings “In-dee-yaa” looks to America for inspiration). It is Bhāratis who venerate the land as mother; for India, the land is a resource to be exploited. It is two different mindsets, two different worlds. On an individualism-based “modern” society as inherently violent, see Krishen Kak, “Enucleated Universes: An Ethnography of the Other America and of Americans as the Other”, Princeton University, Ph.D. dissertation, June 1990. This is not for a moment to suggest that Bhārat does not have its own problems, but the solutions to these do not lie in the West – see Krishen Kak, “The White solution to Brown problems”, Vicharamala 68, http://www.vigilonline.com/index.php?optio...d=300&Itemid=55.

*** End ***
The idea of India is also ennunciated by Radha Kumud Mukherjee in his book "Fundamental Unity of India" which he later elaborated as a book. He gives extensive Puranic sources to document the idea of India.
<b>Secular anti-Nationalism vs. Cultural Nationalism</b>
by V Sundaram
At the very end:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"Muslims say they are proud to be Muslim, Christians say they are proud to be Christian, Sikhs say they are proud to be Sikh, and Hindus say they are proud to be … "secular."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And from NewsTodayNet (V Sundaram):
‘Secular’ anti-nationalism vs cultural nationalism-I
‘Secular’ anti-nationalism vs cultural nationalism-II
‘Secular’ anti-nationalism vs cultural nationalism-III
‘Secular’ anti-nationalism vs cultural nationalism-IV
<b>We, The Nation(s) Of India</b>

We, The Nation(s) Of India

India breathes through her multiplicity, not her fragmenting voices

13 Jan. 2009

Cover Story

THERE IS a buzz about India becoming a superpower. But, are superpowers confused about national identity or inviting others to solve their civilisation's "backwardness"? Does a superpower allow foreign nexuses to co-opt its citizens as agents? India graciously hosts foreign nexuses that treat it as a collection of disparate parts. Is super - powerdom delusionary?

The Mumbai massacre painfully exposes flaws in our national character, the central one being the absence of a definitive, purpose-filled identity. Who is that "we" whose interests are represented, internally and internationally? How should Indianness be defined? Where is the Indianness that transcends narrow identities and vested interests, one that is worth sacrificing for? Is it in the popular culture of Bollywood and cricket? Or is it deeper? The national identity project is at once urgent and compelling.

The need for national identity</b>

In their pursuit of personal goals, Indians are intensely competitive. But we lack consensus on a shared national essence and hence there is no deep psychological bond between citizen and nation. National identity is to a nation's well-being what the immune system is to the body's health. The over-stressed body succumbs to external and internal threats, and eventually death, as its immunity weakens. Similarly, a nation stressed by a vacuum of identity, or multiple conflicting identities, or outright confusion, can break up. Just as the body's immune system needs constant rejuvenation, so too a nation needs a positive collective psyche for its political cohesion.

Major nations deliberately pursue nation building through such devices as shared myths, history, heroes, religion, ideology, language and symbolism. Despite internal dissent, Americans have deep pride of heritage, and have constructed awe-inspiring monuments to their founding fathers and heroic wars. Where are Delhi's monuments honouring the wars of 1857 or 1971, Shivaji, the Vijayanagar Empire, Ashoka, or the peaceful spread of Indian civilisation across Asia for a millennium? Where are the museums that showcase India's special place in the world?

<b>Forces that fragment</b>

Voices of fragmentation drive India's internal politics — from Raj Thackeray to M Karunanidhi to Mamata Banerjee to the Quota Raj to the agents of foreign proselytising.

While social injustice, in India and elsewhere, demands effective cures, proper treatments do not follow faulty diagnoses. Since colonial times, influential scholars have propagated that there is no such thing as Indian civilisation. India was "civilised" by successive waves of invaders. The quest for Indianness is futile since India was never a nation. The noted historian Romila Thapar concludes that India's pluralism has no essence. Like a doughnut, the center is void; only the peripheries have identity.

Such thinking infects Indian elite. Supreme Court Justice Markandey Katju, citing western historians, asserts that the Munda tribes are the only true natives and that 95 percent of Indians are immigrants; that all so-called Aryan and Dravidian classical languages are foreign, ruling out anything as pan-Indian in our antiquity; and that worthwhile Indian civilisation begins with Akbar, "the greatest ruler the world has ever seen."

This accelerating crescendo, portraying India as an inherently artificial, oppressive nation, is directed by western academics advocating western intervention to bring human rights. It is supported by private foundations, churches and the US government and promotes fragmentation by bolstering regional identities, "backward" castes, and religious minorities. Sadly, our own people, such as many activists and the westernised upper class, have internalised India's "oppression of minorities." The human catastrophe that would envelope diverse groups — especially the weakest — in the aftermath of India's break up is blithely ignored.

Beyond tolerance and assimilation</b>

Critics worry that national identity promotes fascism. But while many civilisations have used identity for conquest, my vision of Indianness is driven by mutual respect. We respect the other who is different provided the other reciprocates with respect towards us, in rhetoric and in action. The religious "tolerance" of Judaism, Islam and Christianity is a patronising accommodation; it puts up with others' differences without respecting their right to be different. In contradistinction, Indian civilisation embraces differences reciprocally.

Movements that eradicate differences span the ideological spectrum. Some religions claim mandates from God to convert the religiously different. Although the European Enlightenment project dispensed with God, it enabled erasing ethnic diversity through genocide of Native Americans and slavery of African-Americans. Asians were luckier, because they could become "less different" via colonisation.

Today, many Indians erase their distinctiveness by glamorising white identity as the gold standard. Skin lighteners are literal whiteners. Media and pop culture incorporate white aesthetics, body language and attire for social status, careers and marriage. The venerable "namaste" is becoming a marker of the older generations and the servants. Pop Hindu gurus peddle the "everything is the same" mumbojumbo, ignoring even the distinctions between the dharmic and the un-dharmic. Intellectuals adopt white categories of discourse as "universal".

Difference eradicating ideologies are hegemonic. Either you (i) assimilate, (ii) oppose and suffer, or (iii) get contained and marginalised.

But Indian philosophy is built on celebrating diversity — in trees, flowers, matter, human bodies, minds, languages and cultures, spiritualities and traditions — and does not see it as a problem to be dealt with.

All social groups manifest an affinity for in-group relations but in the ideal Indian ethos, in-group affinity is without external aggression. Before colonial social engineering, traditional Indian castes were fluid, informal containers of identities, interwoven with one another, and not frozen hierarchically. This applied to Muslims, Christians and Hindus. Each caste had its distinct norms and was respected by others. My India is a web of thousands of castes encapsulating diverse genes and memes. This ideal is the exact opposite of fascist ethnocentrism.

Diversity yes, fragmentation no</b>

The socially mobile castes that had preserved India's diversity were frozen into castes to serve the British divide-and rule. Independent India adopted caste identities to allocate quotas instead of safeguarding individual rights. When the Congress party failed to integrate a vast mishmash of subidentities, regional vote-banking entrepreneurs captured India's political fragments. Now, national interests are casually disregarded for fear of offending these fragments.

Cover Story Globalisation has opened the floodgates for minority leaders to tie-up with western churches and NGOs, Saudis, Chinese and just about anyone wanting to carve out a slice of the Indian elephant. Such minorities include the Nagas, now serving as a foreign subsidiary of the Texas Southern Baptist Church; Tamils who first got Dravidianised and are now being Christianised through identity engineering; Maoists in over 30 percent of India's districts; and Saudifunded Pan-Islamists expanding across India. These fragmented identities weaken Indianness due to their loyalty to foreign alliances. The leaders depend on foreign headquarters for ideological and financial support.

Such groups are no longer minorities, but are agents of dominant world majorities. They are franchisees of the global nexuses they serve. They are adversaries of the Indian identity formation. Do they truly help India's under classes? These global nexuses have a disappointing track record of solving problems in countries where they have operated for generations, including Latin America, Philippines and Africa where most natives have become converted. The imported religion has failed to bring human rights and has often exacerbated problems. Yet, Indian middlemen have mastered the art of begging foreign patronage in exchange for selling the souls of fellow Indians.

<b>Towards an Indian identity</b>

Hindutva is a modern political response lacking the elasticity to be the pan-Indian identity. Other popular ideas are equally shallow, such as the Indianness defined by Bollywood and cricket. Ideals like "secular democracy" and "development" do not a distinct national identity make. It is fashionable to blend pop culture with European ideologies and pass it off as Indianness. Such blends cannot bind a complex India together against fissiparous casteism and regionalism coming in the orbits of Islamist jihad and evangelical Christianity.

Indianness must override fragmented identities, no matter how large the vote bank or how powerful the foreign sponsor. Gandhi articulated a grand narrative for India. Tagore and Aurobindo saw continuity in Indian civilisation. Nehru had a national vision, which Indira Gandhi modified and defended fiercely. The Ashokan, Chola, and Maratha empires had welldefined narratives, each with an idea of India.

<b>Debating Indianness fearlessly and fairly</b>

A robust Indianness must become the context in which serious issues get debated. Everyone should be able to participate — be it Advani or Sonia, the Imam of Jama Masjid or Hindu gurus, Thackeray or the underworld — in a free and fair debate on Indianness, and no one should be exempt from criticism.

But the Indian intellectual mafia, which built careers by importing and franchising foreign doctrines, suppresses debate outside its framework, and brands honest attempts at opposing them as fascism. I offer a few examples.

A few years before 9/11, the Princeton-based Infinity Foundation proposed to a prestigious Delhi-based centre to research the Taliban and their impact on India. The centre's intellectuals pronounced the hypothesis an unrealistic conspiracy theory and unworthy of study. Even after 9/11, the American Academy of Religion refused to study the Taliban as a religious phenomenon while persisting with Hindu caste, cows, dowry, mothers-in-law, social oppression, violence and sundry intellectual staples.

Some analysts hyphenate Islamist terror with Kashmir, imputing that terrorism is a legitimate dispute resolution technique. "The plight of Muslims" is a rationalisation; and Martha Nussbaum, a University of Chicago professor, blames "Hindu fascism" as the leading cause of terrorism and justifies the Mumbai massacre by hyphenating it with Hindu "pogroms," Hindu "ethnic cleansing against Muslims," and the Hindu project to "Kill Christians and destroy their institutions." Her insensitivity to the victims, just two days after 26/11, was given a free pass by the LA Times. Double standards are evident when cartoons lampooning Islam are condemned, whereas serious attacks against Hindu deities, symbols and texts are defended in the name of intellectual freedom. ( COMMENT: For more on this aspect, I would recommend a reading of "INVADING THE SACRED" (RUPA & CO) - Rajiv Malhotra was the 'prime -mover' in getting the book published. A fine intellectual treatise.)

<b>Be positive and "live happily ever after"</b>

The Bollywood grand finale, where the couple lives happily ever after, is de rigueur. Friends insist that my analysis must end with something positive by way of solving the problems I uncover. Hard evidence of dangerous cleavages in India, spinning out of control, is too "negative." The need to work backwards from a happy ending and only admit evidence that fits such endings is an Indian psychological disorder. But we don't expect doctors to reject negative diagnoses, analysts to ignore market crashes, or teachers to praise our unruly children. What if there is no "good" alternative?

It is disturbing that strategic options against Pakistan must subserve the sensitivities of Indian Muslims. This gratuitously assumes that Indian Muslims are less Indian than Muslim. Some fear that strong Indian action will precipitate increased jihad, or even nuclear war. Such fears recapitulate the early campaigns to appease Hitler. Once a violent cancer spreads outside the tumour's skin, it demands a direct attack. Vitamins, singing, and lamp-lighting are pointless. In sports or warfare, medicine or marketing, you cannot win by only using defence. The offensive option that cannot be exercised is merely a showpiece. If national interests are dominated by minority sentiments, our enemies will exploit our weakness. A paralysed India emboldens predators.

Games nations play</b>

After Indians return to psychological normalcy, apathy will be confused as resilience. When each episode is seen in isolation there is short-term thinking, a tolerance of terrorism, and an acceptance that mere survival is adequate. Strategic planning requires connecting the trends clearly.

Indians must understand the reality of multiple geopolitical board games. Moves on one gameboard trigger consequences on others, making the tradeoffs complex. The South Asia gameboard involves USA-India-Pakistan as well as China-Pakistan stakes. Besides external games with its neighbours, India plays internal games to appease fragments, which are influenced by foreign stakeholders. Religion is used as soft power in the game of Islam versus the West, and India's fragmentation hastens the harvesting of souls in the world's largest open market. The multinational business gameboard spotlights India as a market, a supplier, a competitor, and an investment destination.

In another gameboard, scholars of South Asia construct a discourse with Indian intellectuals as their sepoys and affiliated NGOs as paid agents. Following the academic and human rights experts who profited from the Iraq invasion, the players in this game hope that US president designate Barack Obama will budget billions to "engage South Asia."

The identity challenges are offset by forces that hold India together. Private enterprises that span the entire country bring cohesion that depends on high economic growth and its trickle down to the lowest strata to outpace population growth and social unrest. Economic prosperity is also required for military spending. More than any other institution, the armed forces unify the nation because they realise that soldiers must identify themselves with the nation they are prepared to die for.

Recent US policy supports India's sovereignty, but this should be seen in the context of using India as a counterweight against Pan-Islam and China. In the long run, the US would like India not to become another unified superpower like China or to disintegrate into a Pakistan-like menace. It will "manage" India between these two extremes. An elephant cannot put itself up for adoption as someone's pet. It must learn to fend for itself.

Lessons for India</b>

Although the US is a land of immigrants, pride of place goes to the majority religion. Political candidates for high office are seriously disadvantaged if they are not seen as good Christians. The church-state separation is not a mandate to denounce Christianity or privilege minority religions. America was built on white identity that involved the ethnic cleansing of others. To its credit, India has avoided this.Obama sought a better, unified nation and transcended the minorityism of previous Black leaders. Unlike the Dravidianists, Mayawati, and those Muslim and Christian leaders who undermine India's identity, Obama is unabashedly patriotic and a devout follower of its majority religion. America celebrates its tapestry of hyphenated identities (Indian-American, Irish-American, etc.) but "American" supersedes every sub-identity. Being un-American is a death knell for American leaders.

In sharp contrast, Mayawati, Indian Muslim leaders, Indian Christian leaders, Dravidianists and other "minority" vote bankers have consolidated power at the expense of India's unified identity. Unlike the promoters of fragmented Indian identities, Obama is closer to Mahatma Gandhi and Ambedkar, champions of the downtrodden within a unified Indian civilisation.

India can learn from American mechanisms. Indian billionaires must become major stakeholders in constructing positive discourse on the nation. They must make strategic commitments like those made by the Carnegies, Rockefellers and Fords in building American identity, its sense of history, and in projecting American ideals. American meritocracy in politics, implemented through internal primaries, is vastly superior to the cronyism in Indian politics.

The area studies programmes in American universities have close links to the government, think tanks and churches, and they examine nations and civilisations from the American perspective. India should establish a network of area studies to study neighboring countries and other regions from India's viewpoint. India should study China's establishment of 100 Confucian Studies Chairs worldwide and the civilisational grand narrative of other nations.

Ideological "camps" with pre-packaged solutions are obsolete. The Indian genius must improvise, innovate, and create a national identity worthy of its name.

<i>Rajiv Malhotra is the President, Infinity Foundation,(Princeton, N.J., U.S.A.) who also writes on issues concerning the place of Indian civilisation in the world</i>

Vedanta can help people overcome fear of terrorism: Srikrishna

Mumbai (PTI): The principles of Vedanta, the teaching of the Upanishads, can help people overcome the fear of terrorism, former Justice B N Srikrishna said on Thursday.

The root cause of terrorism is hatred. The hatred spreads because of the difference of opinion between two people, when one does not agree with other. This leads to suspicion and results in violence, Srikrishna said on the sidelines of a seminar 'Revisiting Vedanta in the 21st century' here.

"But if we look upon everyone around us as ourselves, where is the occasion for hatred and where is the cause for violence?" he said.

We tend to humanize differences between language, race, culture, customs leading to suspicion. There is no scope for negative thoughts, he said.

Vedanta should be revisited at every moment of our life. It teaches optimism, fearlessness, soul force and clearness of conscience, he said.

Vedanta is the science of right living. It is not the monopoly of Hindus but is universal and can be followed by anyone without giving up their religion, he added.

All reform moments are connected with some ancient forms of Vedanta, Prof Dr Balasubramanian said.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Preserving national identity</b>

Sandeep B (Pioneer 23 Jan 09)

As long as the Indian collective consciousness preserved the primacy of Vedic national unity, India could be invaded but not broken. And it is to this that we must return to keep India united

Last week, two seemingly unconnected articles appeared about India. They were unconnected in time but unified by theme. Rajiv Malhotra’s “We, the nation(s) of India” in Tehelka (17 January) was a dispassionate analysis of the dangers today’s India faces mostly from within but powerfully abetted by fissiparous forces from outside. The Belgian scholar, Koenraad Elst’s review of Shrikant Talageri’s latest book Rigveda and the Avesta: Final Evidence refocuses on one of the defining periods of pre-ancient India, which is still the subject of much controversy in Indological studies worldwide, and which has far-reaching effects both today and in future.

Rajiv Malhotra’s piece identifies the extent of divisiveness that, if left unchecked, will splinter India sooner than later. He calls into evidence an array of internal and external factors contributing to this phenomenon from such diverse fields as academia, media, white supremacy, pop Hindu gurus, history, politics, sports, and Bollywood. He concludes that today’s urgent need is for the ‘Indian genius’ to “improvise, innovate, and create a national identity worthy of its name.”

In other words, to wage a long, aggressive, and decisive battle to rediscover what India has lost. To abandon Jawaharlal Nehru’s ill-understood Discovery of India in favour of a true Rediscovery of India. To study why Alexander’s invasion was akin to an ant-bite to India but why India suffered massive casualties on all fronts at the hands of successive Muslim marauders. To that end, Shrikant Talageri’s book must be made mandatory reading to all Indians with the national interest at heart.

A polyglot, poet, scholar, a fierce proponent of Sanatana Dharma, and a warm friend, Shatavadhani R Ganesh terms Rig Vedic India as the ‘most romantic period’ in the entire history of this nation. A cursory reading of the literature about that period shows us that it was a very ‘happening’ era — from sweeping natural changes to revolutionary inventions in metallurgy, politics, town-planning to intense philosophical speculation, the India of 5,000-plus years past was an exciting time to live in. Most significantly, it was the womb that nurtured the defining seed of an entire civilisation and way of life sustained till today. That despite continual natural threats — of rivers drying up, of cattle dying and other unforeseen natural disasters — Rig Vedic India was able to produce such masterpieces of philosophy as the Nasadiya Sukta is verily a wonder.

All things were equal as long as the natives accepted the Aryan Invasion Theory. In a line, the AIT negates all achievements of ‘native’ Indians using the following concocted narrative: The 5,000-year-old Indian history is one unbroken tale of alien invasions, and thus, the credit for all achievements doesn’t really belong to them. In a stroke, this provided the logical premise for the imbecilic grand conclusion that India was never a nation. Our early home-grown Communists zealously championed this ‘theory’ for several decades.

However, it is now part of academic history that each new scholarly investigation in this area drawn from different disciplines — archeology, linguistics, and maritime studies — was an additional nail added to the coffin of the spurious AIT.

As Elst shows, Talageri’s new book draws evidence directly from the internal chronology of the Rig Veda. But Talageri’s masterstroke lies in paying the AIT proponents back in their own coin. He uses about two centuries’ worth of AIT scholarship and reaches precisely the opposite conclusion: No Aryans migrated into India. To quote Elst, “Talageri compares the contents of the oldest layer… books six, three and seven; of the middle layer, books two and four; and the youngest layer, comprising books one, five, eight, nine and 10. Covering every verse… and comparing the three periods, he finds a shifting focus in the names of animals, plants, rivers, landscape features, technology, ancestors, ethnic groups, and in personal name types and verse forms… the old layer was indubitably composed in the Yamuna/Saraswati region, which was to remain the centre of gravity of Vedic culture; the middle layer’s horizon expands westwards as far as the Indus; while the youngest parts are also familiar with Afghanistan. This is exactly the opposite of what the AIT predicts.”

This is where Indians need to trace their ‘national identity’ to. This also demolishes the dubious ‘Dravidian identity’ thereby razing the paper-thin foundation of Karunanidhi’s brand of politics. As long as the Indian collective consciousness preserved the primacy of this Vedic national unity, India could be invaded but not broken. And it is to what we must return to reunify India.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Swami Vivekananda: A legacy denied </b>
By: Saurav Basu

Several newspapers editorial pages display a remarkable conspicuity in their absence of remembrance of Swami Vivekananda"s birth anniversary. In the same vein, political parties have remained averse to appropriating the man and his message unlike the passionate exhibition of their characteristic voyeurism during Gandhi, Nehru and his parivar"s anniversaries. A full page advert of the sports ministry celebrates National Youth Day without identifying with Vivekananda!

Probably, it is because Vivekananda"s "unapologetic Hinduism" cannot be straight-jacketed into "secular", "progressive" and "dalit emancipative" categories. The BJP whose prime ministerial candidate refers to Vivekananda throughout his exhaustive memoirs also show little recollection of the occasion, for the man who single handedly heralded the modernization of Hinduism and its representation and vindication on the world stage.

Does it mean Vivekananda is no longer relevant to the future of India? Was he a mere shooting star which has now faded into oblivion? Ramachandra Guha, a secular historian considers "behind every thinking Indian there is either a Marxist or a Gandhian". Vivekananda"s unique message has no place in the contemporary discourse of such thinkers; instead critics like Jyotirmaya Sharma believe Vivekananda"s discourse on "Hindu superiority" represents a dangerous "threat" to the "secular" fabric of the nation. Perhaps, it is out of such ideological pathology that Vivekananda"s message received absolutely no state support for its dissemination in Nehru"s India. The government of India in the 1950s under culture minister Humayun Kabir while commissioning the biography of over 100 nationalists and patriots curiously left out Vivekananda. Textbooks of India had Gandhi"s talisman but Vivekananda was reduced to a paragraph in 300 pages of Modern History. No national university was named after the man who encouraged J R D Tata to build the world acclaimed Indian Institute of sciences. No national football stadium or tournament has been ascribed to the man, who inspired Bengali boys to go and play football, the matchless spirit which was vindicated when a barefoot Mohan Bagan beat East Yorkshire to win the IFA shield of 1911.

The Ramakrishna Mission painstakingly carried his message through their meager resources even against mounting Communist threats which forced them to bowdlerize his critique of Mohammed from Bengali editions of Swamiji"s works. They have now published subsidized copies of his nine volumes complete works which can be at had for the price of the latest Jeffrey Archer thriller. But perhaps nothing but the extraordinary power and the divine acumen of his words is what makes Vivekananda"s stand out tall as a persistent youth icon. The Vivekananda community on "Orkut", a social networking site has over 1,50,000 members, surpassed only by a cricketer like Rahul Dravid or Bollywood icons with international appeal like Shahrukh Khan. Not surprisingly, you have Gavin Flood regrettably condescend that Vivekananda"s Hinduism is synonymous with the rapidly progressing "middle class Hindus" of today.

Vivekananda lived in an age when the response of a defeated nation was in the words of Ram Swarup, "trying to restore its self-respect and self-confidence through self-repudiation and identification with the ways of the victors." Vivekananda reprimanded those Brahmos who "for a few patronizing pats of their masters" spat on their own culture and indulged in self loathing. Vivekananda visualized in India an unmatched spiritual vision for humanity at large, and he realized political freedom alone was inadequate for its regeneration. Those who say Vivekananda was not a nationalist are nothing short of intellectually dishonest, for never was there a time when he considered himself as a subject of the British Empire. This is of course in stark contrast to Mahatma Gandhi who fourteen months after Tagore had resigned his knighthood belatedly returned to the Viceroy his Kaiser-Hind medal in the aftermath of the Jalianwala Bagh massacre after vainly waiting for Christian justice.

The fashionable critics of his today claim he was a "status quoits" in terms of caste and women"s issues although nothing can be further from the truth. Instead, Vivekananda found utterly objectionable the manner in which the social reformers of the day appropriated Western critiques of Indian culture. He refused to be one of those Hindus, who, having identified themselves with a conquering nation held the misery of their own people up to ridicule and contempt. Vivekananda rejected those destructive methods wherein an alien system was forcibly transplanted on an unwilling subjugated people through force of law and threat of punishment and in the process cut off their identities. He reasoned that "No nation is great or good because Parliament enacts this or that, but because its men are great and good..I do not believe in reform; I believe in growth. Theirs is a method of destruction, mine is that of construction" Vivekananda was again one who could appreciate the urgent need for integrating women with the mainstream by giving them agency. Women had to be empowered and educated, so they could take their decisions in their best interests uninfluenced by men. "Our part of the duty lies in imparting true education to all men and women in society. As an outcome of that education, they will of themselves be able to know what is good for them and what is bad, and will spontaneously eschew the latter. It will not be then necessary to pull down or set up anything in society by coercion." Also, few know that Vivekananda supported the women suffrage movement in the West, and also proposed training women in physical education and self defense. He implored some notable Hindu women like Sarala Ghoshal, the niece of Rabindranath to represent Indian womanhood on the world stage.

On the caste question, Vivekananda"s views were revolutionary and hitherto unknown. He rejected both the Marxist doctrine of "class struggle" along with the communitarian view of "class co-operation" and instead proposed Vedantic socialism for organic development. "Man must love others because all those others are Himself", Vivekananda created a new philosophical paradigm by stressing on the intellectual appreciation of conceptualizing the Advaitic absolute even in the relative phenomenon. The difference between the Brahmana and the Shudra being illusory eliminates caste conflicts and caste privileges without necessarily breaking social distinctions and allows nishkamma karma. The pernicious "reservation policy" of India which is based on Marxist concepts of "class antagonism" where a Brahmin and a Shudra only work respectively for the interests of their own castes is completely negated in the light of this higher Self affirming philosophy. Sadly, no political party in India has considered internalizing this vital message of Vivekananda in this age of divisive caste politics.

Vivekananda was the first Indian who impacted the West despite criticizing Christianity and asserting Hindu superiority. Unlike Gandhi"s irrationality in considering Western civilization to be a spurious antithesis of the pure Indian counterpart despite himself imitating the ideas of Christ, Rosseau and Tolstoy; Vivekananda cherished the values and achievements of both despite the influence of no foreign thinker on him. His influence on Sri Aurobindo who represents the last viable fusion of the East and the West is ample testimony to this fact. His vision in the words of Sri Aurobindo has yet to find fructification for; "the definite work he has left behind is quite incommensurate with our impression of his creative might and energy. We perceive his influence still working gigantically, we know not well where, in something, that is not yet formed, something leonine, grand, and intuitive, upheaving that has entered the soul of India."
Victory #3

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Good Sense "Dawns" in "Burqa" Dutt & Co!!- <b>Kudos to HJS !</b>
25/01/2009 03:32:11 

<b>NDTV changed the decision to give Award to Hussain</b>

Jalgaon (Maharashtra): N.D.T.V. had planned to give ‘Man of the year’ award to anti-Hindu painter M.F. Hussain who had painted nude pictures of Hindu Deities and Bharatmata. Due to the agitation by Hindu Janjagruti Samiti (HJS) opposing the plan to give the award to Hussain  and  the ban initiated by all the cable operators on all the programmes by  N.D.T.V. it  had to give the ‘Man of the year’ award to Shri. Lalkrushna Adwani instead by changing their plan.

HJS had started the agitation to oppose the plan  in order to stop the publicity of anti-Hindu painter Hussain planned by N.D.T.V. As soon as HJS had gaven a call to all the cable operators in Jalgao to ban N.D.T.V. all of them initiated the ban instantly by registering their protest.

Thereafter HJS had brought to the notice of the publishing media about this news by organising a press conference. Due to strong stand taken by all the cable operators against N.D.T.V, N.D.T.V. had to bow before the feelings of the proud Hindus. During award giving ceremony that had taken place on 23rd January i.e. yesterday N.D.T.V. had to give the award to BJP leader Shri. Lalkrushna Adwani instead.

The owner of ‘Sai Vision’ and the councilor of the Jalgao Municipal Corporation, Shri. Ashwin Sonavne, BJP and the owner of ‘Ekata Vision’ Shri. Shrad Tayade banned the telecast from N.D.T.V. instantly. <b>The private cable operators from places like Yawal, Faizpur, Amalner, Dharangao also supported the cause by stopping their telecast from N.D.T.V.</b>

In spite of the instruction from Shri. Pathak from N.D.T.V. to the private cable operators from Jalgao to start the telecast on telephone they did not pay any hid to it and continued with their ban firmly.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo--> The Hindus involved took action according to what way was open to them. (Like the awesome private cable operators who stopped the show.)

Who said that MF Hussein's what-<i>IS</i>-that-anyway is appreciated universally? All Dharmics see is more islamic junk. Since christoislamics are so appreciative of it ("freedom of speeeeech"), it becomes immediately clear that the otherwise-unidentifiable scratch marks he makes are all renderings of ayesha, mary, jesus and of course a cross-dressing-without-any-dress mohammed (and sometimes mohammed as a non-human simian of some sort) all committing the usual lewd and bestial christoislamic acts.

Hindu sensibilities are naturally offended as we don't like distasteful displays masquerading as 'art', <i>even</i> where the object of Hussein's base ridicule and that of his defenders is their own christoislamic religion.

HJS, which reproduced Hussein's images to warn its readers of MFH's depravity, should have another page where they label all his images properly as follows:
1. 6-year old Ayesha attacked by 50+ year old paedophile Mohammed-as-some-sort-of-monkey
2 & 3. Nude mary in blue, and nude mary as some kind of non-human deformity
These two were by christo FN Souza, not MFH - my mistake. They 'paint' in the same style, how was I to know.
4. Nude mohammed with obvious implants (wannabe cross-dressing). If you thought he looked ugly as a man-monkey in 1, he looks worse as a woman. Eewwww doesn't begin to describe it.
5. Mary and mohammed committing some act forbidden by the church (separation of centuries does not apply to non-existent characters) in full view of jeebus. Apparently it's a very graphic depiction. Think Team America.
6. Jeebus committing some sexual crime a la mohammed in 1. The less said about it the better.
7. Jehovallah in the nude and ... the rest is unmentionable in polite and impolite company and even in private.

When I saw the images I too got quite shocked by MFH's disgusting imagination. "Poor jeebusjehovallah and ayesha and mary," thought I. "Even if non-existent, they deserve better from their own faithful."
But apparently that's how their religion works: they're not allowed to depict these characters except in such offensive ways.

Still, I think Hindus ought to bring MFH to the attention of the Saudi Arabian wahabis: inform them of how MFH is making profane images of allah, mohammed and ayesha (and their other prophet jeebus). Their fatwas on MFH may prove lethal to him, but it is our bounden duty to convince the wahabis of how their gawd and propped-up-puppet - I mean prophet - are being insulted.
[GHHF] Recommendations to Preserve Hinduism, Maha Pada Yatra, Main Speakers, your support requested

You never cease to labor until you have revived the glorious past of India in the consciousness of the people. That will be the true national education, and with its advancement, a true national spirit will be awakened. Sri Swami Vivekananda

American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. Thomas Jefferson

It is with the goal of protecting, preserving and reviving the glorious past of Hindustan; it is with the goal of imparting the national spirit and spiritual education; it is with the aim of preserving the individual freedom and liberty all citizens of the nation; it is with the object of ending the discrimination of Hindus who are denied the basic human right of managing their own institutions; it is with the mission of ensuring peace to segments of the planet earth; it is with the aim of establishing respect for human life and reverence for peaceful coexistence; it is with purpose of establishing a wall of separation between religion and government; it is with a determination to demolish the house of secularism which harbors horror and terror; and it is with the intention of refusing to be an object of illegal, forced, unethical conversion tactics, a group of people developed the following recommendations to be submitted to all the political, religious and spiritual leaders of the Bharath. These recommendations are being distributed to various leaders to read, digest, advocate, adopt and implement to the fullest extent so that Hindu ethos of equal treatment is implemented.

Recommendations Submitted by NRIs to Political & Spiritual Leaders in India.

Prepared by Global Hindu Heritage Foundation &

Hindu Devalaya Parirakshana Samiti

End the Discrimination against Hindu Community (ALL ITEMS HIGH PRIORITY)

1) Abolish Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowment Act. Restore and compensate at market prices all the Temple lands sold, Temple revenues used for non Hindu causes, encroached lands and the temples destroyed since Independence in 1947.

2) Establish Hindu Schools to teach Vedic Philosophy and True Hindu (India) History.

3) Rehabilitate 350,000+, Kashmiri Hindus to dignity.

3) Implement Uniform civil code (Article 44).

4) Repeal Article 370 in order to integrate Jammu & Kashmir fully with India.

5) Abrogate the Article 30 of the Indian Constitution.

Protect India's Territorial integrity from foreign aggression (all except item 3 are HIGH PRIORITY)

1) Protect India's Geographical Boundaries. Build a solid fool proof fencing system along Bangladesh border. Expel all Bangladeshi illegal infiltrators and set-up stringent conditions to prevent any further infiltration of Bangladeshis.

2) Liberate Pakistan Occupied Kashmir, Chinese occupation in Laddak and other areas; reinforce North-Eastern borders and coastal areas to reduce illegal entry into India. Increase the size of armed forces to suit.

3) Establish an identity system for all Indian Citizens.

4) Modify country FERA regulations to prevent massive illegal conversions using foreign funding.

Investigate the flow of funds used fir conversion

5) Ban all deceptive religious conversion and enforce transparency of accounts of all NGO's. Severe punishments should be imposed on any deceptive practices of religious conversion. Stem illegal inflow of money in the form of donations by requiring each organization to show receipts and tax income details and account details.

Stop Divide and Rule Policies

1) Reservations: Establish reservations based on economic status only. Remove the use of caste, creed, and religion affiliation in all Government official transactions, educational institutions, and employment environment. Legislative bodies, Government Organizations and Judicial Courts make no discrimination or provide preferential treatment based on creed, caste, religion, political or official or societal status. -- PRIORITY 1

2) Reservations: Significantly reduce extent of reservations. Increase support for early and primary education. This will positively impact India's growth to become super power. -- PRIORITY 2

3) Media: Reduce foreign influence in India. Establish clear laws on making media pay a very high price for propagating propaganda. For e.g., Arun Shourie reported in 'Harvesting Our Souls' how media spreads propaganda on events like a Christian Nun being raped by Hindus but when the real news came to the fore (that it is not true), media hardly bother to question. How media is subtly trying to undermine Hindu Religious symbols etc. - PRIORITY 2

4) Media: Establish a body that determines the biases and propaganda patterns in the media. They may give warnings and then take media to courts. -- PRIORITY 2

5) Family Planning: Take steps to reduce Population by allowing only two children per couple, irrespective of religious beliefs. Make it illegal with strict punishments to religious leaders encouraging their followers to have more children. -- PRIORITY 1

6) Text books and NCERT. Text books should reflect the history of India during Muslim period and the atrocities of Christians such as Goa Inquisition. NCERT should be completely revamped to see that the facts, however painful they maybe are published without alienating current population. The concept Aryan invasion should be negated, because this is totally false. -- PRIORITY 2

Corruption -- PRIORITY 2

1) Create a state based corruption index and make it very costly for any state that has high index value. For e.g., state funding from Federal government be reduced if the particular State's corruption index is high.

2) Force disclosure of the assets of Swiss bank accounts and Cayman Islands accounts. Recently the taxation division of US (Internal Revenue Service) has forced disclosure of those evading taxes.

Other items -- PRIORITY 2

1) Build Ramjanmabhoomi Temple at Ayodhya (India) by passing a law in the Parliament.

2) Protect Hindu Heritage: Preserving, Protecting and Promoting Indian Heritage like Rama Sethu, Hindu Temples, Holy sites, Vedic Scriptures and Knowledge, Music / Dance / Yoga forms, History and Historical sites. Severe punishments should be given to the Govt. machinery like ASI who is blatantly destroying age old monuments and sculptures. Ban Cow slaughter throughout India.

3) Declare Rama Sethu a National Monument.

4) Oppose any religious incentives – Hajj Subsidy. Travel grants to visit Jerusalem, protection of lands and properties of Christians and Moslems, and salary subsidies to other religious preachers, construction of other religious places of worship, etc. Take back Government built / provided Hajj facilities.

5) Abolish all teaching institutions promoting hatred towards Hindus, Hindu Culture Hindu way of Living.

6) Preserve and Protect interests of Hindus every where including those in Sri Lanka.

7) Promote Bhagavat Gita as the basic Spiritual text of Hindu Philosophy.

8) Pass laws making it a crime to defame Hindu Gods, Hindu Culture, Hindu Heritage and Hindu way of Living.

9) Provide Dual Citizenship to eligible NRI(s).

Maha Pada Yatra 2

Sri Kamal Kumar Swami who is undertaking the Maha Pada Yatra 2 to make all Hindus aware of the potential danger to the preservation of Hinduism through the destruction of the Temples by other religions, bomb blasts, conversion, appeasement of minorities, special privileges granted at the expense of Hindus, killing of Saints and discrediting the saints.

As many of you know that the Maha Pada Yatra 2 started on August 16, 2008 and will continue until February 16, 2009. He and his associates have been traveling to many villages and towns, visiting numerous Temples, and collecting information on the dilapidated Temples, lands encroached, and lands sold. So far he visited Sri Kakulam district, Vijayanagaram District, Vishakhapatnam District, East Godavari District, West Godavari District, Kammam district, Krishna District, Guntur District, Prakasam District. Now it is going through Chittoor District. It is gratifying to note that large number of people are attending the meetings held in front of the Temples to hear Sri Kamal Kumar talk of preserving the Hindu Temples so that Hindu culture will be maintained. In all his speeches he is encouraging people to go to Temples regularly with their family members, have family meal regularly, and take the responsibility of caring and maintaining the Temple.

Main Speakers at the Public Forum.

We have invited a number of Acharyas, Swamijis, Peetadhipatis, Political Leaders, Religious Leaders and other interested and Hindu leaders as Special Guests to speak on the importance of preserving our Temples and Culture. Speakers who agreed to attend and give message as follows:

1) Sri Swami Jayendra Saraswati, (Shankaracharya Mutt, Kanchi)

2) Sri Datta Vijayananda Teerdha Swami (Avadhuta Datta Peetham, Mysore)

3) Sri Sreenivasa Ramanuja Jeera Swamy (Hyderabad)

4) Sri Sachidananda Saraswati (Tuni)

5) Sri Swaroopanandendra Saraswati (Visakhapatnam)

6) Sri Swami Paripoornananda Saraswati (Sreepeetham, Kakinada)

7) Sri Krishna Yaji Swamy (Srikakulam)

8) Sri Narasimha Bharati Swamy, Pushpagiri Peetham, Hyderabad

9) Sri Madhavananda Saraswathi Swamy, Medak District

10) Sri Yogananda Saraswathi (Sri Gopala Krishna Mutt, Adilabad)

11) Sri Swami Paripoornananda Swami (Malyalam Swami)

12) Sri Siva Kalyana Bharathi Mahaswamy (Guntur)

13) Dr. Subramanian Swamy (President, Janata Party)

14) Sri P V R K Prasad, IAS

15) Dr. T. Hanuman Chowdary

16) Sri R. Venkatanaryanan IAS

17) Smt Lakshmi Paravati, NTR

18) Dr. Ramakrishna Marella, Gayatri Pariwar

19) Sri Bandaru Lakshman, President, A. P State BJP

20) Sri V. Rama Rao, Former Governor of Sikkim.

We are expecting others to accept our invitation soon.


Nehru Municipal High School Grounds, Tirupathi


This Maha Padaytra will continue through hundreds of villages and finally reach Tirupathi on February 16, 2009. We will have huge rally with invited guests from different organizations who are committed to free the Hindu Temples from the clutches of government. You are all welcome to attend the Public Forum being planned in Tirupathi on February 16. You support to preserve and protect our Hindu Temples and Hindu culture is appreciated.

We want recognize all the Hindus who came from foreign countries. Please call me if you are planning to attend. Cell # 99630 36024

Budget for each District in Rupees

Mahapada Yatra 2 started on August 16, and will conclude on February 16, 2009. The break down of the expenses is given below. Please be generous.

Mahapada Yatra. ..2
Banners each district 1000 100,000-00
Pamphlets Each district 100000 25,000.00

Wall posters 5000 20,000-00
Saffran flags + Kanduvas (Shawls) 5000 50,000-00
Torams & dollers 100000 25,000-00
Radham Maintenance (desiel+driver+ )2000km+ 25,000-00
Stickers 50000 50,000-00
Sri Venkateswara Swamy Photos small size 20000 20,000-00
Press overage 50,000-00
District wise programs & karyakartas expenses 35,000-00
Total for each District Rs. 400,000-00

Approximately ($10,000)

For all 11 (eleven) districts, the proposed budget is $100,000


We are expecting around 30,000 – 35,000 people to participate in the Public Forum in Tirupathi on February 16, 2009. For over night accommodation and two meals for all of the attendees, stage set up, decoration, sound system and other local arrangements would cost about $50,000. Your generous donations to complete the Maha Pada Yatra to awaken the Hindus about the plight of Hindu Temples and the impending danger of illegal conversion techniques are essential. We are requesting all the individuals and organizations to support financially to continue our movement to free Hindu Temples from the government control and stop these conversions.

NOTE: We just received non-profit organizational status on August 29, 2008. That means we are exempt from federal income tax under section 501 ( c ) 3 of the Internal Revenue code.

Our tax ID # 41-2258630

Please send your tax deductible donations to:

Global Hindu Heritage Foundation, 548 Silverstone Drive, Madison MS 39110

You can go to savetemples.org and pay by PAYPAL

For more information:


V. V. Prakasa Rao, PhD, 601-918-7111 (cell), 601-856-4783 (home) / Prasad Yalamanchi, 630-832-2665; 630-359-5041 / D. Satya 732-939-2060 / Vinay 248-842-6964 /Srinivas Murthy 212-538-8716 / Dr. K. R. Venkatramaiah (Canada) 416-925-8167. Nemana Satya 732-762-7104, Sekhar Reddy 954-895-1947, Tulasi Tummala 408-786-8357, Raju Polavaram 919-959-6141
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->There are many confusions in the minds of Indian Community about a need for Hindu Identity. In his presentation, Rajiv Malhotra will address these issues and talk about, "what, why, and how" of Hindu Identity.

Place: Arsha Bodha Center, 84 Cortelyou Lane, Somerser, NJ 08873
Date: Sunday, March 15, 2009
Time; 6:00 to 7:00 pm
HIndu identity is something that is very weak in all countries where hindus live nowaday. also in Surinam Hindus are a weak minority and they are afraid to fight for their rights.

Hindus must sure unite on a global scale and build stronger organisations.

Being afraid to name yourself and fight for your rights is not smart. in this world every race has to fight for themself and HIndus must do the same.

At all the name Hindu is wrong. Sanathan Dharm is better, but how must we tell this to the world?

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->RayC wrote:

Hinduism survived not because of personalities, but because of its powerful philosophy and the total freedom it enshrines!

Pardon me - but pure BS.

It takes a Jesus, Mohammed or similar proselytizing savant to advance both religion and political thought.

Outside of the subcontinent Hinduism is a cult. Within the subcontinent it is an emotional and social crutch.

That is why it has never contributed to civilizational security.

And sorry to say - I am no expert on the Upanishads or the Gita. That would take a lifetime of devotion.

I realize that you make a lot of posts, and therefore deserve some leeway, but wouldn't it be better, if your extracts from BRF posts are wholly quoted? And have the tag "from BRF" before them.

As an example, take a look at your last post. It was entirely from BRF, which you omitted saying, and did not express your views. It expressed the views of someone who does not post here.

I am saying this in the interests of accuracy, that is all.
<!--QuoteBegin-acharya+Apr 2 2009, 11:48 PM-->QUOTE(acharya @ Apr 2 2009, 11:48 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->RayC wrote:

Hinduism survived not because of personalities, but because of its powerful philosophy and the total freedom it enshrines!

Pardon me - but pure BS.

It takes a Jesus, Mohammed or similar proselytizing savant to advance both religion and political thought.

Outside of the subcontinent Hinduism is a cult. Within the subcontinent it is an emotional and social crutch.

That is why it has never contributed to civilizational security.

And sorry to say - I am no expert on the Upanishads or the Gita. That would take a lifetime of devotion.

Is no BS .Philosophy is self-conscience,mean intelectual life.
Why do you think christians target unreach tribal people? Because they dont pose a intelectual chalange and can be easy manipulated.
If all people was philosophers then christians have to work very hard to win any convert at all. But very few people are.
And freedom ?more likely the spiritual satisfaction that a religion can give; thats why sufi islam can win more converts then clasic islam beacuse ofer more a inner spirituality.
From philosophical point of view christians and muslims have also over 90% of hindu philosophy meaning that abrahamic philosophers are almost as good as hindu philosophers and thats enough to convert 95% of world population.
In the detail view,in deepness,in complexity,in clarity ,in the sistematic aproach,in the beauty of ideatic structure,hindu philosophers have an advance .

What hindu philosophers dont have is an united army.

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