<!--QuoteBegin-G.Subramaniam+Jun 29 2008, 02:51 AM-->QUOTE(G.Subramaniam @ Jun 29 2008, 02:51 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->IMHO, if you look at vietnamese immigrants to the US
very many illiterates in the next generation manage to go to engineering school
in the US
In the case of the elite SC/ST, 2nd or 3rd generation affirmative action, I dont see
that
So I dont think there will be more than 5% of SC/ST who can function well
on the other hand, I have seen several peasant caste Indians do remarkably well
in the west, and if this trend continues, my model will have to move up the peasant IQ by 5IQ[right][snapback]83506[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Several things come to mind. Unorganised:
1. Vietnamese civilisation ended quite recently due to christoism and communism. Until then, they were going head-on against their long-time competitors, the Cambodian civilisation. They had a long history of civilisation and if it weren't for christocolonialism, followed by christodictatorship in S Vietnam in the 1950s and communist dictatorship in N Vietnam, they would not have become illiterate. And if it weren't for communism brought on by America's christos, Cambodia's educated class (many of whom were teachers) wouldn't have been murdered out.
Very bright people.
<b>EDITED:</b> 2. On the matter of 'China being ethnically homogeneous' as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, this assumption is false. For instance, the Akha (a subgroup of the <i>Hani</i>) were originally an indigenous ethnic group from China. Due to various factors - not all of them pleasant, IIRC - many of them migrated to neighbouring hilly regions in Thailand, Laos, Burma and thereabouts.
3. The main point I wanted to make:
The comment on Indian Girijan and Harijan population is not correct. They could easily learn, but the methods employed in western education do not always help all individuals learn. (That may account for the estimate of 5% you mentioned that do well in western-type school system, whereas the others may find the same system harder to work with.)
The skill of a teacher (in Hindu Dharma) lies in finding ways to teach so that every single student can comprehend the material. It is why Hindu teachers like my Grandfather was able to make all his students succeed. The effort of the student is at least equally important, but all his students had the willingness, motivation and effort. Not everyone immediately scored the top marks when they went to college even though they all passed; but because christobritish bigotry destroyed a lot of Hindu schools, many of the students were at that stage 1st generation students again when it came to some subjects. Subsequent generations, having gained some background in these same topics, therefore did do better. And this trend can only continue to improve in the future. Dharmics are open to education. It is only the narrowminded that convert to christoislamism or even to communistics (who then call themselves "Dalits") that remain close-minded, and you should not include them in your assessment of the capabilities of Hindus.
People keep forgetting that humanity only got intelligent over time and by being faced with new situations. Even over a shorter and more recent timescale various effects on intelligence and capabilities can be seen:
- Joseph McCabe tells how the dark ages in Europe brought even the literate Romans of ancient times into total illiteracy until about the 17th or was it 18th century.
- Remember also how illiterate Dickensian christo-england was because of centuries of christoism. The faithful upper castas of christoBritain regularly said that the lower castas could not be taught. They were wrong.
- The French aristocratic christo-snobs of the great catholic tyranny said that the French peasantry were like animals and could be taught no more than animals. They were just as wrong. France has very few aristocrats now but it is well-educated.
- The Germanic people could not write until they got their writing system from the Mediterranean, then things went downhill during christianism but look at where they went after Enlightenment. Consider comparing that last to their intermediate state at the time of arch-antisemite Maarten Luther's time, where everyone including the 'literate' Maarten, imagined that the 'devils' were everywhere waiting to pounce on the christos. As one learns in history class, medieval christo-Europe wouldn't bathe because they believed the accumulation of dirt and stink would help keep the devils at bay, while bathing would supposedly make one an easy target. :christologic Christo-stupourstition is a natural consequence of the ignorant mindset created by christoism. This is the only sort of 'education' the christians got for centuries, while for the rest they were kept ignorant and illiterate on purpose.
If Germans could become literate and intelligent (only thanks to encountering Greco-Roman civilisation again) after being broken by centuries of deep christomania, then Hindus certainly can be restored - we have had fewer centuries under christoBritish, though Bharatam has had one millennium under islam. We have one additional disadvantage: the christian heel is still trying to stamp us out. They have taken over a lot of Indian education and with their maleducation (and pro-christian reservation, like St Stephens will favour only christo Dalits - but it sounds like a thoroughly incompetent school anyway) try to keep the Hindu population down. Communists have taken over the remainder of Indian education, so you get the kind of ignorance that presumably passes for education that was spread in other communist countries like Cambodia. Neither christo nor communist education allows for independent thought. The people they convert can only parrot psecular speak and think that that is "intelligence". (Islamics don't even get anything resembling education.) It is only the Hindus who are showing true intelligence, formulating their own questions and discovering the answers - <i>in spite of</i> christocommunism. No doubts in my mind that the Hindu Girijan and Harijan communities can and will rise very well.
That certain Hindu communities are showing some cleverness today is the residue of past generations. It is not due to any virtue of the current generations, but rather because these communities had not been so drastically affected by the christobritish's christian destruction of Hindu centres of education as the now-disadvantaged Hindu communities were. The christobritish snobs detested the Girijan and Harijan Hindu communities even as they intended to use them to break Hindu society. According to christoBritish castaist views, when they started viewing these people as belonging to some lower stratification of Hindu society, they concluded that this meant that the upper casta British invaders of India were therefore even further removed in social standing from the Girijan and Harijan. That is why they felt greater odium toward them - though they would consort with them as missionary-to-mouldable-heathen, they never considered them as being on equal standing. It is very odd to see christo 'Dalits' celebrate Macaulay and English when they obviously have never read the colonial views on 'Dalits' (other than possibly the later missionary literature that feigned compassion for entirely different purposes). These christo-conditioned Indians have no clue about how Paine's Rights of Man was received in christoBritain, nor of how rigid and uncompromisingly castaist christoBritish society was: two English men were still not equal even when they were both 'white', if one was aristocrat and the other working class or even merchant class (WWI and after started changing this, but <i>very</i> slowly). The Irish came lower in christocasta system than any Englishman even long after the Napoleonic wars. What then to say of the dark Hindus in Macaulay's time? Imagining those christoBritish as being benignly predisposed is completely unfactual and the sort of fraud that only christowhitewashing of history can dream up. "Macaulay and English" indeed. Like I said, no independent thought in the christo-conditioned.
<b>ADDED:</b>
Unsurprisingly, Lynn and other christoconditioned racists in the west continue that christocolonial uppityness towards the non-urban communities of non-European nations. For them it is of utmost importance that tribes and dark populations of the world be shown as not intelligent. It is part of the "White human <i>evolved</i> from brown" theory that is essential to racists (appearance including colour is another important trait for them in their skewed idea of evolution). They don't like the idea that other populations continue to evolve <i>alongside</i> - No, they MUST have it that one population is at the top and represents humanity in the Now, while the rest (because we still exist and aren't done away with yet as Lynn and Pearson want) must be mere 'relics' of older stages of human progress that should, by their expectations, extinct any time now. That way they feel better and more superior.
They can't imagine that different human communities can co-exist on the same planet and independently continue to evolve without (as per their reasoning) all moving toward the same 'ultimate white' look. It's the same way the western world monotheistically expects all other countries in the world to 'progress' to the same 'first world' concept of civilisation they are at, as if that is the height of human civilisation today. (We do know how they got there. Looting and enslaving Africa, genociding Americas, colonising and looting Asia.) And just like they argue that christoislamic monotheism is the evolution of all concepts of God. A big No to the Losers: christoislamicommunazism is not the epitomy of human philosophy and thought, as they imagine. It is instead a conglomeration of the meannest and most backward of all the lowest tendencies in humans.
4. I think IQ is very flawed as a tool to measure human intelligence with (and the capacity for the same) if the Kalahari Bushmen don't rank very high. I've watched a documentary on the skills they have developed (including but not limited to survival skills) and they are very specialised and capable. They're obviously clever enough to perfect the skills they need in their environment, so perhaps Lynn is just being the haughty racist he always was when he draws more of his dribble-drenched conclusions.
very many illiterates in the next generation manage to go to engineering school
in the US
In the case of the elite SC/ST, 2nd or 3rd generation affirmative action, I dont see
that
So I dont think there will be more than 5% of SC/ST who can function well
on the other hand, I have seen several peasant caste Indians do remarkably well
in the west, and if this trend continues, my model will have to move up the peasant IQ by 5IQ[right][snapback]83506[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Several things come to mind. Unorganised:
1. Vietnamese civilisation ended quite recently due to christoism and communism. Until then, they were going head-on against their long-time competitors, the Cambodian civilisation. They had a long history of civilisation and if it weren't for christocolonialism, followed by christodictatorship in S Vietnam in the 1950s and communist dictatorship in N Vietnam, they would not have become illiterate. And if it weren't for communism brought on by America's christos, Cambodia's educated class (many of whom were teachers) wouldn't have been murdered out.
Very bright people.
<b>EDITED:</b> 2. On the matter of 'China being ethnically homogeneous' as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, this assumption is false. For instance, the Akha (a subgroup of the <i>Hani</i>) were originally an indigenous ethnic group from China. Due to various factors - not all of them pleasant, IIRC - many of them migrated to neighbouring hilly regions in Thailand, Laos, Burma and thereabouts.
3. The main point I wanted to make:
The comment on Indian Girijan and Harijan population is not correct. They could easily learn, but the methods employed in western education do not always help all individuals learn. (That may account for the estimate of 5% you mentioned that do well in western-type school system, whereas the others may find the same system harder to work with.)
The skill of a teacher (in Hindu Dharma) lies in finding ways to teach so that every single student can comprehend the material. It is why Hindu teachers like my Grandfather was able to make all his students succeed. The effort of the student is at least equally important, but all his students had the willingness, motivation and effort. Not everyone immediately scored the top marks when they went to college even though they all passed; but because christobritish bigotry destroyed a lot of Hindu schools, many of the students were at that stage 1st generation students again when it came to some subjects. Subsequent generations, having gained some background in these same topics, therefore did do better. And this trend can only continue to improve in the future. Dharmics are open to education. It is only the narrowminded that convert to christoislamism or even to communistics (who then call themselves "Dalits") that remain close-minded, and you should not include them in your assessment of the capabilities of Hindus.
People keep forgetting that humanity only got intelligent over time and by being faced with new situations. Even over a shorter and more recent timescale various effects on intelligence and capabilities can be seen:
- Joseph McCabe tells how the dark ages in Europe brought even the literate Romans of ancient times into total illiteracy until about the 17th or was it 18th century.
- Remember also how illiterate Dickensian christo-england was because of centuries of christoism. The faithful upper castas of christoBritain regularly said that the lower castas could not be taught. They were wrong.
- The French aristocratic christo-snobs of the great catholic tyranny said that the French peasantry were like animals and could be taught no more than animals. They were just as wrong. France has very few aristocrats now but it is well-educated.
- The Germanic people could not write until they got their writing system from the Mediterranean, then things went downhill during christianism but look at where they went after Enlightenment. Consider comparing that last to their intermediate state at the time of arch-antisemite Maarten Luther's time, where everyone including the 'literate' Maarten, imagined that the 'devils' were everywhere waiting to pounce on the christos. As one learns in history class, medieval christo-Europe wouldn't bathe because they believed the accumulation of dirt and stink would help keep the devils at bay, while bathing would supposedly make one an easy target. :christologic Christo-stupourstition is a natural consequence of the ignorant mindset created by christoism. This is the only sort of 'education' the christians got for centuries, while for the rest they were kept ignorant and illiterate on purpose.
If Germans could become literate and intelligent (only thanks to encountering Greco-Roman civilisation again) after being broken by centuries of deep christomania, then Hindus certainly can be restored - we have had fewer centuries under christoBritish, though Bharatam has had one millennium under islam. We have one additional disadvantage: the christian heel is still trying to stamp us out. They have taken over a lot of Indian education and with their maleducation (and pro-christian reservation, like St Stephens will favour only christo Dalits - but it sounds like a thoroughly incompetent school anyway) try to keep the Hindu population down. Communists have taken over the remainder of Indian education, so you get the kind of ignorance that presumably passes for education that was spread in other communist countries like Cambodia. Neither christo nor communist education allows for independent thought. The people they convert can only parrot psecular speak and think that that is "intelligence". (Islamics don't even get anything resembling education.) It is only the Hindus who are showing true intelligence, formulating their own questions and discovering the answers - <i>in spite of</i> christocommunism. No doubts in my mind that the Hindu Girijan and Harijan communities can and will rise very well.
That certain Hindu communities are showing some cleverness today is the residue of past generations. It is not due to any virtue of the current generations, but rather because these communities had not been so drastically affected by the christobritish's christian destruction of Hindu centres of education as the now-disadvantaged Hindu communities were. The christobritish snobs detested the Girijan and Harijan Hindu communities even as they intended to use them to break Hindu society. According to christoBritish castaist views, when they started viewing these people as belonging to some lower stratification of Hindu society, they concluded that this meant that the upper casta British invaders of India were therefore even further removed in social standing from the Girijan and Harijan. That is why they felt greater odium toward them - though they would consort with them as missionary-to-mouldable-heathen, they never considered them as being on equal standing. It is very odd to see christo 'Dalits' celebrate Macaulay and English when they obviously have never read the colonial views on 'Dalits' (other than possibly the later missionary literature that feigned compassion for entirely different purposes). These christo-conditioned Indians have no clue about how Paine's Rights of Man was received in christoBritain, nor of how rigid and uncompromisingly castaist christoBritish society was: two English men were still not equal even when they were both 'white', if one was aristocrat and the other working class or even merchant class (WWI and after started changing this, but <i>very</i> slowly). The Irish came lower in christocasta system than any Englishman even long after the Napoleonic wars. What then to say of the dark Hindus in Macaulay's time? Imagining those christoBritish as being benignly predisposed is completely unfactual and the sort of fraud that only christowhitewashing of history can dream up. "Macaulay and English" indeed. Like I said, no independent thought in the christo-conditioned.
<b>ADDED:</b>
Unsurprisingly, Lynn and other christoconditioned racists in the west continue that christocolonial uppityness towards the non-urban communities of non-European nations. For them it is of utmost importance that tribes and dark populations of the world be shown as not intelligent. It is part of the "White human <i>evolved</i> from brown" theory that is essential to racists (appearance including colour is another important trait for them in their skewed idea of evolution). They don't like the idea that other populations continue to evolve <i>alongside</i> - No, they MUST have it that one population is at the top and represents humanity in the Now, while the rest (because we still exist and aren't done away with yet as Lynn and Pearson want) must be mere 'relics' of older stages of human progress that should, by their expectations, extinct any time now. That way they feel better and more superior.
They can't imagine that different human communities can co-exist on the same planet and independently continue to evolve without (as per their reasoning) all moving toward the same 'ultimate white' look. It's the same way the western world monotheistically expects all other countries in the world to 'progress' to the same 'first world' concept of civilisation they are at, as if that is the height of human civilisation today. (We do know how they got there. Looting and enslaving Africa, genociding Americas, colonising and looting Asia.) And just like they argue that christoislamic monotheism is the evolution of all concepts of God. A big No to the Losers: christoislamicommunazism is not the epitomy of human philosophy and thought, as they imagine. It is instead a conglomeration of the meannest and most backward of all the lowest tendencies in humans.
4. I think IQ is very flawed as a tool to measure human intelligence with (and the capacity for the same) if the Kalahari Bushmen don't rank very high. I've watched a documentary on the skills they have developed (including but not limited to survival skills) and they are very specialised and capable. They're obviously clever enough to perfect the skills they need in their environment, so perhaps Lynn is just being the haughty racist he always was when he draws more of his dribble-drenched conclusions.