The tactics used by America to destroy (East) Asian society

[Husky]

Post 1/2



More stuff to get through first.





www.bigwowo.com/2010/06/kingstonian-tar-and-feather/

Kingstonian Tar-and-Feather

Posted on June 7, 2010 by bigWOWO



(blog caption to typical photo - of AF in question smiling at WM husband - screaming "ideal marriage" #1 Hai Nguyen with her husband John after divorcing her supposedly sexist Vietnamese American ex-husband Greg



King posted this article in the FlashForward thread. He was posting it to say something about interracial relationships among African Americans, but the story I caught from the article was this one:

Hai Nguyen, 37, of Houston recalls the instant connection she felt after meeting her first Vietnamese boyfriend, Greg, in college. Nguyen says while she had to explain herself to white boyfriends, with Greg it was a feeling that “he so gets me, because we eat the same food, we like the same things, our families know each other and there is so little that needs to be said.”



With the enthusiastic support of her parents, she and Greg married. But their connection soon began to fade, due partly to Nguyen’s budding career as a business analyst, which clashed with more traditional expectations for her to “always have fresh food on the table.” The two divorced and Nguyen is now remarried to Jon, who is white.



“My parents have prejudices, but they’ve accepted it,” said Nguyen. She described occasionally feeling different with her parents and other single-race couples. “They know it’s inevitable. My native tongue will eventually fade, and history will take its course.”

I’m sorry, sister, but that’s totally uncool. Totally uncool. You have a bad divorce, and you use it not just to talk smack about your ex-husband, but you use it to talk smack about his “traditional” culture? I’ve met many White guys who marry Asian women and expect them to cook. I’ve met many White guys who marry White women and expect them to cook. (Links to the example at nytimes.com/2007/08/13/business/worldbusiness/13iht-workcol14.4.7104116.html) But somehow, a White guy is free to screw up and be treated as an individual, while an Asian guy who does the exact same thing sees his entire ethnicity tarred and feathered. Even within his own culture, people refuse to see an Asian man as an individual. Talk about throwin’ a brother under the bus.



And to the author Hope Yen: Why not give equality a “yen” of “hope” by letting “Greg” address these horrible accusations? If a black man had slammed black women a la Wesley Snipes, there’d be hell to pay. But when an Asian woman does the same thing a la Amy Tan or Maxine Hong Kingston, the media treats it as something perfectly normal. Talk about using the media to kick a brother…nay, all brothers…while we’re down!



I can’t believe this nonsense is still going on in the 21st century. We need to be building bridges, not attacking the powerless among us.





(blog caption to typical photo - of AF in question smiling at WM husband - screaming "ideal marriage" #2 Rescued by a White knight from traditional Asian sexism

Edit: pics from here.

Some of the comments:

[U:]

I believe that the woman in this article did not say that out of maliciousness but the notion of her use of “traditional” applied to men in general, not specifically AM, is incorrect.



The reason why is because even though you and I acknowledge that men of all races harbor that “traditional” attitude, others don’t see it that way. Western society sees themselves as individuals, not stereotypes, which they have applied to AMs. We already have that stigma attached to us. Now, it matters not because most of the time, perception becomes reality.



[MSJ:]

June 7, 2010 at 10:14 am

This is yet another tiresome “Let’s throw Asian men under the bus for their traditional values, lack of understanding of women and place white men on a pedestal” article.





[Leon:]

Ah…the ol’ White Knight Syndrome. Because, we all know, white men can do no wrong. I wonder when these AF being up the subject of sexism, they realize what kind of patriarchy they suffer under in this country. There must be a lot of Asian male senators, CEOs, presidents, police chiefs, media anchors, writers and lawyers keeping them down. Damn, Asian guys, give your sisters a break! Quit having such a stranglehold on western society!





[bloghost:]

Thomas,



Thanks for your comment! I see your point, but I agree with urb4n. I don’t think she was trying to be malicious, but with the power of the media combined with Orientalism, it once again stigmatizes us. Here’s why:



Virtually all traditional cultures are sexist, but that wasn’t how this journalist presented it. Hope Yen (man, that name is ironic!) wrote it as a comparison. First there was Hai dating White guys, but then she meets a Vietnamese guy who eats the same food as she does (you gotta love the silly straw men that some writers propose for dating Asian), and then she finds out that he’s too “traditional,” and then once again her parents have their “prejudices.” That “traditional” tag always gets put on Asian guys and Asian culture. I don’t think you can look at it outside of its racial context, and quite honestly, the story seems to focus in on it as a selling point, the same old Orientalist dichotomy between the backward East and progressive West.



Did you see the White version of the “fresh food on the table” story?



www.nytimes.com/2007/08/13/business/worldbusiness/13iht-workcol14.4.7104116.html?_r=1



[color="#0000FF"]Notice that not once do they use the term “traditional.” Why? Because White men get individualistic portrayals. They’re already seen as beyond living within a traditional, stifling culture. The media treats them as strong men rather than traditional sexist automatons.



We saw something similar in the days after Katrina. Black men, according to the media, were “looting,” while White people were “finding.”[/color]



media-awareness.ca/english/resources/educational/teachable_moments/katrina_2_photo.cfm



On a side note, I was thinking last night about how or what a reporter might ask me that would cause me to publicly point the finger at my spouse after a divorce. For example, no one knows why Tipper and Al are splitting; they’re pretty mum about it. That’s usually the way it is. So what got Hai to speak? I understand that reporters sometimes don’t tell the full story, but I find it strange that Hai or any divorce person would publicly tell the media any reason why she and her husband divorced, let alone pin it on “traditional” culture.





[U:]

See, that’s one of the things I really hate about Asian Americans.

They sit there and try to believe that people are naturally good and all the bad things that white society places on them is mere coincidence and that there is no ulterior motive and agenda.

Suffice to say, they’re either stupid, willfully ignorant, or have no social spider senses.

Thomas’ post up top is proof of that.

“Oh, the reporter meant to say this but it came out wrong. We know all Asian men are unique people. White people know that too and I am sure that if the reporter was told, she would amend the story and get it re-posted the next day to reflect that.”

I mean, seriously? That’s my next focus. Is there a reason why Asian people think this way?





[Leon:]

Wait, I thought one of the main reasons why white men have all this yellow fever is they prefer the more “traditional” Asian women. You know, the docile house wives who take care of the kids and the house and give their husband a foot massage when he returns from a hard day at work.



Since white women have become too individualistic and ambitious and now dares to compete against the men in the business world, those men look to the timeless exotic east where the women remember their place and serve their husbands with respect. Seriously, just look up those white rice chasers on the internet and you’ll find their commentary along these lines. Ah….more irony.





[Winnie:]

As for the story, this woman bottomline (regardless of malevolent intent or not) should NOT have dissed her own culture like that. She can spite her husband as an individual, but not culturally. She has no right to attack the entire culture (especially that of her own!)

And what I hate most is that last quote: “My native tongue will eventually fade, and history will take its course.” Is she willingly and intentionally going to allow her native tongue/entire culture to disappear like that? For shame I say.





[bloghost:]

Frank Chin was the first person to raise the question of the Asian American media and how it emasculates Asian men. He did this forty years ago. When he spoke, people wanted to look for a more “nuanced” approach. It was clear that Kingston including blatant historical and linguistic untruths in her work, but in the early 70′s people wanted to believe that truth was relative. So they searched for more nuance. They looked for little insignificant reasons not to take action or to offend people. They turned away from the main issues. And in the end, they got nowhere. The Asian American female suicide rate is through the roof, and Asian men still face emasculation and hidden anger. It makes sense, given that we didn’t act.

Contrast that to Martin Luther King who said that Jim Crowe had to end now. His book was called “Why We Can’t Wait.” Note the urgency in his tone. Malcolm X talked about taking one’s freedom. These social movers decided on action. Both men were extremely well read, but each had a point where he knew he had enough information to act, to speak. And then they did.

So you see, while I take an intellectual approach before acting–I read lots, debate lots, etc.–I think there’s a point where you have to just say that enough is enough. Call it as you see it. Raise the bar. Enough hand holding. I believe that if you speak the truth, good people will follow. The ignorant will remain ignorant, but that’s always the way it’s been.



[U:]

Asian America is fundamentally broken in a very specific way and we’re simply debating one specific point. No one is whining; a term I dislike greatly because it’s used to trivialize the concerns of others and make them fearful of speaking out. It implies that we’re complaining without looking for a solution.



We’re talking about the emasculation of AM in North American society and the hand AFs play in it, not the suicide rates of AFs.





[bloghost:]

Thanks, TZ. I agree with everything you say. And Hubby is brave to confront an armed robber.



I thought of something interesting when I read your comment. Usually emotion is something that one associates with women, but men also emote. If you take away a man’s voice–to express his feelings and opinions, and to reduce him to a traditional patriarchal tyrant who simply barks at women to get food on the table–one might construe that as emasculating. For me, I think that was the main issue. They could’ve given Greg a voice. Even if he said, “This is how I’ve always done it, and I’m sorry,” I think that would have been less emasculating. At least he’d show what lies in his heart and mind.



But they totally silenced the brothuh! Cut out his tongue the same way the Kingstonians cut off our…



Okay, I’m saying too much.





[Larry:]

The issue is not just Hai Nguyen. The problem is ultimately that the American media will instinctively and repeatedly promote this propaganda meme that “Asian guys are too traditional and sexist”–compared to “liberated” White boys.



The fact that you see this meme promoted ad nauseum from literature (like Joy Luck Club) to “news” (like this AP article) does suggest the American media has a tacit political agenda, which is to implicitly assert the supremacy of Whites males.



Moreover, the West in general and the USA in particular just love to glorify themselves as the embodiment of “progressive” Enlightenment values like liberty, individual freedom, blah, blah, blah–even as they ignores minor little issues that contradict these lies like America’s Gitmo Gulag, Abu Ghraib torture, and thinly disguised wars of aggression from Iraq to Afghanistan.





[bloghost:]

Now King, let’s say that you were of the type who mostly dated White, as Hai was (Greg was the only one). Now lets say that you had the same history–married the first black woman you dated, then divorced her for what were very stereotypical reasons. Now let’s say a reporter approached you and said, “King, I’m gonna write a report on interracial dating trends, and I want you to comment on your ex-wife.” (From my experience, reporters ALWAYS tell you why they’re interviewing you.)

I think you’d be unlikely to say, “Man, it was definitely a change going from all those white chicks to Jane. When I met Jane, it was a change–she actually knew about black people beyond what she saw in Tyler Perry movies and hip hop videos. But then Jane started acting gangstah on me like the tradition in our community: hand on the hip, other hand in your face, always complaining about how I never treated her with respect. So I dumped her, and now I’m happily married to white Becky. Of course my parents have their prejudices against White people, but luv conquers all. It’s inevitable.”

That would be a nasty thing to stick on your ex despite the positive superficial idea that you came from the same background. Neutral Observer would have a field day with your interview (NO, if you’re reading, we do miss you), as would White women competing for black men’s attention.

Most likely, King, I think you’d just refuse to comment on Jane, whether or not she fit stereotypes. That’s why no one knows why Tipper and Al are divorcing other than the unrevealing idea that they’re just going their separate ways. More than likely, even if Jane did what White people like to think Black women do, you wouldn’t reduce her to that. After all, you were once married to her. Classy people don’t smear their divorced exes in the open mainstream media in order to smear their exes with a racial stereotype (and again, from my experience, ALL reporters reveal why they’re writing an article. They’d say, “Hi this is Hope Yen, and I’m writing to get people’s opinions on interracial relationships” or “Hi, this is Hope Yen, and I’m trying to pin the tail on the Asian male…”) (That last is a link in the original , which I will get to some other time)



[U:]

I’ve noticed the same thing regarding who has the power in the relationship.

If the AF is fobby, the WM holds all the power. If the AF is American born, she is the one who controls the WM. I think that AF also wish to date and marry out because they know they can’t control AMs.





[bloghost:]

Also, Hope Yen is equally to blame, if not more so.

he real question is not why her story was told, but rather, why have other stories not been told to balance it.

Or why it’s told differently, as I mentioned to Thomas. When White men want food on the table, it’s a joke about women needing a wife. When Asian men do it, it’s because they are “traditional.” Pin the tail…





[bloghost:]

If some reporter asked me about my ex, I’d say nothing but positive things. Or I’d say nothing at all.

I haven’t even brought up the issue of ol’ Hai posing for all those corny pictures with her new husband. That’s a crime as bad as any.



[bloghost:]

The point is that there are two Asian people involved–the writer and the subject, and one or both of them created a story that tars the Asian man. The comparison with the reporters who reported black men “looting” and white people “finding” after Katrina is the same. No one is saying that all black people loot, but the different treatment in the media begs the question of why the same meme keeps on coming back when we talk about Asian men or Asian culture.





[bloghost:] [color="#800080"](an ex-christian)[/color]

Kobu (a Korean christian): Men lead women, not the other way around, but a woman will fling all kinds of “shit-tests” at a man to see what he’s made of.

Is this really true?



I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian household, and it’s definitely true in that culture. There was a huge emphasis on “being a man.” Women followed men because that’s what God ordered, according to the interpretation by the church I was in.



But I think in Chinese culture, women typically lead men. Despite whatever the Kingstonians say (and they wouldn’t know anyway since they don’t marry or date non-White men), I think the typical Chinese relationship is more egalitarian, or even pro-female. Not sure about other Asian cultures.





[Leon says:]

Maybe if AF start dating black men or brown men in equal numbers, then all these AM complaints about IR would be moot. Shit, this chick could have found another Asian man who treated her better and I’m sure her parents would love that. But we know that all Asian men are traditionalist and sexist and an AF finding her escape in the arms of a white man is just par for the course. It isn’t just the media; many AF in IR are reinforcing this meme.





[bloghost:]

Maybe we should be directing more of the blame towards Hope rather than Hai. Maybe Hope was employing the Kristof Technique. I certainly don’t believe in censorship, but as I mentioned–if you put yourself in her shoes, it’s fishy, and you wonder whether or not it really is the truth.

IMO, it's both the well-trained AF reporter and the interviewee together behind it, but primarily the reporter.



The interviewee blabbed negatively - and stereotypically what's more - about her ex, which is indeed suspect as others above have noted.

But the reporter's:

- choice to scrutinise Asian male ex's "shortcomings" and pass that off as "traditional" and E Asian

- choice to compare Asian male ex with the preferred *western* husband's, whose shortcomings are of course invisible (as in, not for scrutiny) because "individual"

- choice to present tacky pictures of AF-WM marital bliss (can be compared to how I don't see many AF-AM couples on programming from the US at all, let alone happy ones)



About the bold bit in the following:

But I think in Chinese culture, women typically lead men. Despite whatever the Kingstonians say (and they wouldn’t know anyway since they don’t marry or date non-White men), I think the typical Chinese relationship is more egalitarian, or even pro-female. Not sure about other Asian cultures.

That's *exactly* what I thought when I came across how 'Padma Lakshmi' (an Indian-origin western media personality) - and a whole host of Indian and other such wo/men then and since - were brought in to go on about how Hindu men and even all of "Hinduism" were to blame for the spate of rapes in India. (Naturally these types only came out of the woodwork to comment on sexual violence recently, so as to conveniently ignore the eternal jihad against Hindu women and the christian crusade against the Hindu Vanavasi women in the north east and elsewhere.)



But:

Padme-Lakme - and similars - are famous for not dating or marrying Hindu men at all.

IIRC: Padme-Lakme was married to Salman Rusdie, the famous on-and-off islamic but one who's been consistently anti-Hindu. Then she got married to some western guy. She then cheated on the poor dude and got pregnant by another unfortunate western guy, which sent her husband #2 so angry the 'couple' had a huge spate all over international TV/radio/newspapers about it. He/she divorced, and he already publicly denounced *her* character - note, not the character of Hindus or Hindu religion - as a nasty piece of work. Maybe she felt sour about how he had her pegged, and so decided she would attack men she never knew out of general spite, and tried to hide her own very public embarrassment by blaming her ancestral religion, in the hopes that this may eclipse her own relationship faux-pas in the public's memory? Who knows.



Whether she *ever* dated any pseculars of Indian (once-were-Hindu) origin, I wouldn't know. But what is certain is that no Hindu or any other heathen man would ever have formed any romantic liaison with a non-heathen like her. So how she became so know-it-all about Hindu men or Hindu society is anyone's guess. If she ever was oppressed by men, they clearly weren't Hindu. But her range of men however *did* include the Indian islamic (includes the rare "progressive" flavour in there, as Salman Rushdie is both islamic and considered "progressive"), as well as a sampling of western males. She should stick to talking about what she knows about.

Note: her dad was not a Hindu either, but a secular person of Hindu origins. And IIRC, she grew up in the west, so her interaction with any Hindu men - even on the street or anyone driving her in an auto-rickshaw, or the persons ladeling out the temple food for her Food Planet type episodes - would have been extremely limited to a few words and hardly a glance in her direction.



[As usual, I speak of traditional Hindus, obviously not the kind like Padme "I'm a Hindu and I've been asked to come here to testify that Hinduism is to blame for <insert crime>" Lakme.]