<!--QuoteBegin-dhu+Feb 26 2008, 01:44 PM-->QUOTE(dhu @ Feb 26 2008, 01:44 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->regarding the episcopalian event:
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"a Eucharist was celebrated and the Hindus invited to receive the consecrated elements, though some Hindus who abstain from alcohol received only the host, the Los Angeles Times said."
"Added to the Communion service was a veneration of an icon. While a Hindu band sang a hymn the Anglican celebrant anointed the icon with sandalwood paste, draped a garland of flowers over the icon and lit a lamp, âas a sign of Christ, the light in the darkness."
"The diocese reported the Eucharist was celebrated according to the liturgy of the Church of South India and the <b>âtradition of Bede Griffithsâ</b> and incorporated an âArati, the Service of Light, and Kirtan, congregational chanting of the Holy Names."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->[right][snapback]79003[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sorry Dhu, I had missed out on the significance of this. What Dhu has pointed out above shows how the Episcopalian 'apology' is a sham, which we should have known. Even while they delivered the mock-apology, they continue the old inculturation tactic: using Hindu practises like Aarti and Keertanas for christian purposes.
Impersonating Old Bede. That's supposed to be an apology? Salt over wound:
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Glimpses_IV.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Christian Missionary desperation?</b>
<b>Father Bede Griffiths</b> (1905-1993) who has an "ashram" in South India, did puja instead of mass, wore the ochre vestments, used the "Aum" symbol and called himself "swami."
It is a remarkable fact," write Fr. Bede, "that the Church has been present in India for over fifteen hundred years and has had for the most part everything in its favor, and yet in all this time hardly two in a hundred of the people has been converted to the Christian faith. The position is, indeed, worse even than this figure would suggest, as the vast majority of Christians are concentrated in a very few small areas and in the greater part of India the mass of people remains today untouched except in a very general way by the Christian faith. It is necessary to go even further than this and to say that for the immense majority of the Indian people Christianity still appears as a foreign religion imported from the West and <b>the soul of India remains obstinately attached to its ancient religion.</b> This may have been true in the past, but in recent times there has been a remarkable revival of Hinduism, which is more or less consciously opposed to Christianity, and the educated Hindu regards his religion as definitely superior to Christianity."Â
Decades ago the Catholic bishops of India at their National Center in Bangalore had figures of Brahma, Vishnu, Siva and the Nataraja displayed on window grills of their church. The Hindu Astheega Sangham took them to court and had the images removed.
The plaintiff's attorney, Mr. Parasaran, argued, "If you wish to honor or respect Hindu deities, place them on your altars and not on your window sills."Â
The mission strategists are now making Christianity drop its alien attire and get clothed in Hindu cultural forms. Christianity is being presented as an indigenous faith. Christian theology is being conveyed through categories of Hindu philosophy; Christian worship is being conducted in the manner and with the materials of Hindu puja; Christian sacraments sound like Hindu samskaras; Christian Churches copy the architecture of Hindu temples; Christian hymns are being set to Hindu music; Christian themes and personalities are being presented in styles of Hindu painting; Christian missionaries dress and live like Hindu sannyasins; Christian mission stations look like Hindu ashrams.Â
<b>(source: Catholic Ashrams Sannyasins or Swindlers - By Sita Ram Goel and Hinduism Today).</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since Hindus have started waking up to all the other christoterrorist methods, this particular congregation of this particular christian sect (episcopalian) thought an apology and discussion on 'no more proselytising' would work. It's just a way to get their foot in the door. (Big mistake employing inculturation, though. Hint hint.)
After all, they need a new tactic, especially now that more and more Hindus are learning the unpleasant truths about christianism what with television, internet and all. They merely want Hindus to remain gullible and kept in a receptive mood.
I don't think christianism often came across 'heathen' victims who tried to inform each other about the terrible facts of the aggressor and kept themselves on alert; last time was in Julian's day wasn't it? Maybe christianism has gone shocked again. Maybe there is a soft underbelly after all. It is not remorse on their part, but fear and change of tactics that makes them 'apologise' while we are still unconverted. When the christoislamic mindvirus is scared it goes into self-preservation mode, even if it involves (gasp!) compromising temporarily. (After which they murdered Julian last time. A pattern to keep an eye on.)
Now's not the time to celebrate that christianism has changed its colours. It obviously hasn't (as evident from their use of inculturation) and can't besides.
I can't think why Hindus would participate in such events though. And do they really think inculturation is a compliment? It is offensive and is actually an attack. (Imitation may be considered 'flattery', but appropriation is not a 'compliment', by the way. The two are entirely distinct.)
Some interesting things in Harshvardan's post:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The rare joint service included chants from the Temple Bhajan Band of the <b>International Society for Krishna Consciousness</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->This is strange:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The newspaper (LA Times), which gave considerable space to the story, however erroneously, reported that Hindus had received the Holy Eucharist. "They ran a correction," Mother Karen said. But by then many Christians were upset.
"The fact remains that there were many Indian Christians who received the Eucharist," she said. The newspaper mistook them for the Hindus, she said chuckling.
In its correction, the LA Times wrote, 'Hindu-Episcopal service: An article in Sunday's California section about a joint religious service involving Hindus and Episcopalians said that all those attending the service at St John's Cathedral in Los Angeles were invited to Holy Communion. Although attendees walked toward the Communion table, only Christians were encouraged to partake of Communion. Out of respect for Hindu beliefs, the Hindus were invited to take a flower. Also, the article described Hindus consuming bread during Communion, but some of those worshippers were Christians wearing traditional Indian dress'.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's a lot of talk on 'interfaith dialogue' too in that rediff article posted by Harshvardan.
Hindus have always been able to live and let live without having the need for 'interfaith dialogue'. That's a christian invention to prepare heathen minds for the conquest, where plain old mowing them over with christoterrorism doesn't work or can't be applied. Hindus have always accepted other ways of life - where they are not terrorist viruses in disguise, that is - certainly need no lessons from christianism on accepting different people into society. We do not need to 'congregate' with christians in order to prove our pluralism. In fact, I no longer see how not speaking the truth about christoislamiterrorism supports pluralism, when the ideology has destroyed millions of lives in all the continents. It is silence that will continue to pave the way for christoterrorism.
Have Parsees or Jews requested us to have 'interfaith dialogues' with them by attending Fire Temple or Synagogue? No, because they have their religious traditions and respect our way of life, just as we do theirs. It's not a feature of natural religions to expect or want (or sometimes even accept) others' presence in the religious aspects of their life.
It's only christoislamics that try to dialogue their way under your skin.
If Hindus are going to participate in others' traditions, why don't Indians in America try to contribute their well-wishes to the worthy native American traditions by participating in those instead? (I would <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->, but only if it won't offend them). Rather than taking part in the practises of christoislamic religion - the ideology that has only brought great misfortune to our own ancestors and those of others, and to our own people today as well as to others who are still unconverted.
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"a Eucharist was celebrated and the Hindus invited to receive the consecrated elements, though some Hindus who abstain from alcohol received only the host, the Los Angeles Times said."
"Added to the Communion service was a veneration of an icon. While a Hindu band sang a hymn the Anglican celebrant anointed the icon with sandalwood paste, draped a garland of flowers over the icon and lit a lamp, âas a sign of Christ, the light in the darkness."
"The diocese reported the Eucharist was celebrated according to the liturgy of the Church of South India and the <b>âtradition of Bede Griffithsâ</b> and incorporated an âArati, the Service of Light, and Kirtan, congregational chanting of the Holy Names."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->[right][snapback]79003[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sorry Dhu, I had missed out on the significance of this. What Dhu has pointed out above shows how the Episcopalian 'apology' is a sham, which we should have known. Even while they delivered the mock-apology, they continue the old inculturation tactic: using Hindu practises like Aarti and Keertanas for christian purposes.
Impersonating Old Bede. That's supposed to be an apology? Salt over wound:
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Glimpses_IV.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Christian Missionary desperation?</b>
<b>Father Bede Griffiths</b> (1905-1993) who has an "ashram" in South India, did puja instead of mass, wore the ochre vestments, used the "Aum" symbol and called himself "swami."
It is a remarkable fact," write Fr. Bede, "that the Church has been present in India for over fifteen hundred years and has had for the most part everything in its favor, and yet in all this time hardly two in a hundred of the people has been converted to the Christian faith. The position is, indeed, worse even than this figure would suggest, as the vast majority of Christians are concentrated in a very few small areas and in the greater part of India the mass of people remains today untouched except in a very general way by the Christian faith. It is necessary to go even further than this and to say that for the immense majority of the Indian people Christianity still appears as a foreign religion imported from the West and <b>the soul of India remains obstinately attached to its ancient religion.</b> This may have been true in the past, but in recent times there has been a remarkable revival of Hinduism, which is more or less consciously opposed to Christianity, and the educated Hindu regards his religion as definitely superior to Christianity."Â
Decades ago the Catholic bishops of India at their National Center in Bangalore had figures of Brahma, Vishnu, Siva and the Nataraja displayed on window grills of their church. The Hindu Astheega Sangham took them to court and had the images removed.
The plaintiff's attorney, Mr. Parasaran, argued, "If you wish to honor or respect Hindu deities, place them on your altars and not on your window sills."Â
The mission strategists are now making Christianity drop its alien attire and get clothed in Hindu cultural forms. Christianity is being presented as an indigenous faith. Christian theology is being conveyed through categories of Hindu philosophy; Christian worship is being conducted in the manner and with the materials of Hindu puja; Christian sacraments sound like Hindu samskaras; Christian Churches copy the architecture of Hindu temples; Christian hymns are being set to Hindu music; Christian themes and personalities are being presented in styles of Hindu painting; Christian missionaries dress and live like Hindu sannyasins; Christian mission stations look like Hindu ashrams.Â
<b>(source: Catholic Ashrams Sannyasins or Swindlers - By Sita Ram Goel and Hinduism Today).</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since Hindus have started waking up to all the other christoterrorist methods, this particular congregation of this particular christian sect (episcopalian) thought an apology and discussion on 'no more proselytising' would work. It's just a way to get their foot in the door. (Big mistake employing inculturation, though. Hint hint.)
After all, they need a new tactic, especially now that more and more Hindus are learning the unpleasant truths about christianism what with television, internet and all. They merely want Hindus to remain gullible and kept in a receptive mood.
I don't think christianism often came across 'heathen' victims who tried to inform each other about the terrible facts of the aggressor and kept themselves on alert; last time was in Julian's day wasn't it? Maybe christianism has gone shocked again. Maybe there is a soft underbelly after all. It is not remorse on their part, but fear and change of tactics that makes them 'apologise' while we are still unconverted. When the christoislamic mindvirus is scared it goes into self-preservation mode, even if it involves (gasp!) compromising temporarily. (After which they murdered Julian last time. A pattern to keep an eye on.)
Now's not the time to celebrate that christianism has changed its colours. It obviously hasn't (as evident from their use of inculturation) and can't besides.
I can't think why Hindus would participate in such events though. And do they really think inculturation is a compliment? It is offensive and is actually an attack. (Imitation may be considered 'flattery', but appropriation is not a 'compliment', by the way. The two are entirely distinct.)
Some interesting things in Harshvardan's post:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The rare joint service included chants from the Temple Bhajan Band of the <b>International Society for Krishna Consciousness</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->This is strange:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The newspaper (LA Times), which gave considerable space to the story, however erroneously, reported that Hindus had received the Holy Eucharist. "They ran a correction," Mother Karen said. But by then many Christians were upset.
"The fact remains that there were many Indian Christians who received the Eucharist," she said. The newspaper mistook them for the Hindus, she said chuckling.
In its correction, the LA Times wrote, 'Hindu-Episcopal service: An article in Sunday's California section about a joint religious service involving Hindus and Episcopalians said that all those attending the service at St John's Cathedral in Los Angeles were invited to Holy Communion. Although attendees walked toward the Communion table, only Christians were encouraged to partake of Communion. Out of respect for Hindu beliefs, the Hindus were invited to take a flower. Also, the article described Hindus consuming bread during Communion, but some of those worshippers were Christians wearing traditional Indian dress'.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's a lot of talk on 'interfaith dialogue' too in that rediff article posted by Harshvardan.
Hindus have always been able to live and let live without having the need for 'interfaith dialogue'. That's a christian invention to prepare heathen minds for the conquest, where plain old mowing them over with christoterrorism doesn't work or can't be applied. Hindus have always accepted other ways of life - where they are not terrorist viruses in disguise, that is - certainly need no lessons from christianism on accepting different people into society. We do not need to 'congregate' with christians in order to prove our pluralism. In fact, I no longer see how not speaking the truth about christoislamiterrorism supports pluralism, when the ideology has destroyed millions of lives in all the continents. It is silence that will continue to pave the way for christoterrorism.
Have Parsees or Jews requested us to have 'interfaith dialogues' with them by attending Fire Temple or Synagogue? No, because they have their religious traditions and respect our way of life, just as we do theirs. It's not a feature of natural religions to expect or want (or sometimes even accept) others' presence in the religious aspects of their life.
It's only christoislamics that try to dialogue their way under your skin.
If Hindus are going to participate in others' traditions, why don't Indians in America try to contribute their well-wishes to the worthy native American traditions by participating in those instead? (I would <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->, but only if it won't offend them). Rather than taking part in the practises of christoislamic religion - the ideology that has only brought great misfortune to our own ancestors and those of others, and to our own people today as well as to others who are still unconverted.