Pakistan News And Discussion-13

[Guest]

I think they are creating environment so that Mushy leave uniform ASAP and let BB to be PM and fire Mr. ISI.

[Naresh]

<b>Mudy Ji :</b>

Let us wait and see if BB can stay or goes off to “look after Husband & Children”

<b>As Konphewtious said “We ale living in Intelesting Times!”</b>

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Police raid home of BB’s aide link
KARACHI: Twelve police mobile units raided the residence of Dr Zulfiqar Mirza, a key member of the security team of Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto, in DHA Monday night.

Earlier, in the day also, three police mobile units blocked the main gate of his residence. PPP leaders Mir Aijaz Jakhrani MNA, Rafiq Ahmed Jamali MNA, Zahid Bhurgri MPA, and others have condemned the high-handedness of Chief Minister Arbab Ghulam Rahim. staff report
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>BB mulls ‘virtual’ rallies after threat</b>
<i>* PPP to play taped messages from BB in villages
* Letter from ‘admirer of Osama and suicide bombers’ threatens to slaughter Benazir</i><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Naresh]

<b>Pakistan has failed to close down ‘terrorist networks’, says US</b> <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo-->

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>WASHINGTON : The US State Department said on Tuesday that Pakistan has not been successful in closing down “terrorist networks” and their supporters.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

Haass: In Pakistan, Radicalism Is 'Spreading'


CFR President Richard N. Haass, an expert on Middle East and South Asian affairs, after a recent trip to Pakistan, says there is a good chance for considerable political change in that country, although the army will remain a major force. He cautions, however, that Pakistan faces dual challenges of building political legitimacy and fighting extremism, either of which “would be a lot to take on. But taking them both on at once is quite demanding and then some.” He also warns that extremists are beginning to spread out from the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region to Pakistan's urban areas.

You’ve just come back from a brief trip to Pakistan, where you talked to many of the top leaders including President Pervez Musharraf. What’s the overall situation as Pakistan heads into a very busy political season, with Musharraf’s reelection still to be approved by the Supreme Court, and parliamentary elections due in January?

They are heading into a busy season, but not just politically. The realities in Pakistan are that the government is trying to deal with a deep and broad challenge to its authority from various radical and extremist groups. At the same time the government is trying to build its own legitimacy and bring about a political transition from what has been largely military rule to something more civilian in character. Either one of these challenges, dealing with the extremism and violence, or dealing with a political transition, would be a lot to take on. But taking them both on at once is quite demanding and then some.

Now yesterday seemed to include examples of both of those phenomena. Former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto returned to Karachi, Pakistan as part of an apparent arrangement with Musharraf so that her party, the PPP, can compete in the January elections. Perhaps she would be reelected prime minister, although the laws would have to be changed for that to happen. And then, there were two suicide bombs in Karachi that tried to kill her, but instead went off near her, leading to the deaths of more than a hundred people. Presumably, the bombs were set off by al-Qaeda or the Taliban. Let’s start with the politics first. Can you foresee the Pakistanis moving to a civilian government?

The short answer is yes. I believe we are moving from a situation where the president is a military figure to a situation where the president will be a former military figure, that Musharraf will take off his uniform as he serves his next term. It is possible that you will have a hybrid government—by that I mean the president sharing powers with the parliament and the prime minister with the judiciary. I don’t think that is pie in the sky. There is a good chance we will see considerable, though not complete, political transition because the army will always remain a central force in Pakistani society.

Now, the attempt to assassinate Ms. Bhutto clearly shows that the terrorists are out to get anybody in favor of a normal government in Pakistan.

It says several things. One is what you just said, that there are various individuals and groups in Pakistan who, while not popular by any count—radical groups have never gotten more than 10 percent in any election—they are still in a position to disrupt Pakistani society. And secondly, what we are seeing is a seeping out, the spreading of radicalism from the so-called FATA [Federally Administered Tribal Areas] in the west, the area near Afghanistan. We have seen it recently in the Red Mosque incident. We saw it just now in the Karachi bombing. That to me is the frightening thing. It is not that the radicals have a political foothold, but increasingly, it is becoming a situation, in ways that are reminiscent, quite honestly, of Iraq or Afghanistan, where people who have negative agendas are increasingly in positions to assert them.

Do you think the Karachi bombings will put even more pressure on Musharraf and the army to really go after al-Qaeda?

I don’t think the army is the answer. What we are seeing recently in Pakistan, and what I heard when I was in the country, is that the army has not acquitted itself well in recent encounters with extremist groups, be they the Taliban, al-Qaeda, or something more homegrown. The army is not built for that. One of the real problems in Pakistan is that you don’t have the kind of police forces and local militias in particular that have a chance of being effective against this kind of challenge.

There is a good chance we will see considerable, though not complete, political transition because the army will always remain a central force in Pakistani society.

I used to think the problem was one largely of will: The Pakistanis were not willing to take on these groups. But after my visit there and after various meetings, I increasingly think the problem is one of capacity—the Pakistani army is simply not built for it. It doesn’t have the degree of competence or professionalism; it doesn’t have the right kind of equipment. It is going to take a long time to build up Pakistani capacities to take on the sort of low-level urban terrorist challenges they face.

Can the United States help? Or is U.S. help a “kiss of death”?

“Kiss of death” is way too strong. The United States has to be sensitive. There is a deep anti-Americanism in Pakistan. I have been going there off and on for thirty years, and I am always aware that there is resentment of the United States. Many Pakistanis blame the United States for the frustrating moments of Pakistani history. That said, we need to be a voice to urge political reform. We need to be a source of help for the Pakistanis so they can take on these extremist and terrorist organizations. I don’t believe the Pakistanis can prevail without U.S. help. We just need to be smart in making sure that the help doesn’t become so visible that it becomes a lightening rod for nationalist reaction.

There was that speech by Senator Obama (D-IL) saying that he would send U.S. troops into Pakistan if we knew where al-Qaeda was located.

The preferable situation is to help the Pakistanis locate the extremists and terrorists, be they Taliban, or al-Qaeda, or what have you, and then, if they need the help, provide it, so they can take advantage of these targets of opportunity. We just have to be smart and deal with the reality that Pakistani nationalism is strong and you don’t want to create political-legitimacy problems for the very government you’re trying to help.

Did the United States have a role behind the scenes in getting Musharraf to make the political arrangement with Ms. Bhutto?

It is assumed throughout Pakistan that the United States did have a role in helping forge this deal. So it is quite likely that the United States did have a role. If that is the case, the administration needs to be careful. The United States is wiser to stand for processes and principles than it is to back personalities. Whatever the role was in arranging or helping to arrange for Ms. Bhutto’s return, going forward, the U.S. role should be one of policies and principles, and not trying to help this or that politician.

The United States has to be sensitive. There is a deep anti-Americanism in Pakistan… That said, we need to be a voice to urge political reform… I don’t believe the Pakistanis can prevail without U.S. help.

Her views on al-Qaeda and the terrorists are pretty strong against, right?

Her comments recently have been welcome. They are very tough-minded, trying to delegitimize those who would use violence, essentially questioning whether they are so-called true Muslims. I see those kinds of comments as welcome. On the other hand, they are also going to galvanize some of those people into taking her on, as we’ve just seen in Karachi.

How strong is her party, the PPP? Is it still the strongest vote getter?

The short answer is nobody knows. Politics have taken place with such limits over the last ten years or so, that it is hard to get a true measure of the strength of the PPP or anyone else. And even more recently, a lot of people in Pakistan were critical of Ms. Bhutto—either for forging this tactical alliance with President Musharraf, or for this amnesty which was just passed, which led many people to speculate that she was only returning because she could do so free of fear of paying a price for past alleged corruption. Her place in Pakistan’s future is still not assured. It’s also unclear whether she will be able to campaign actively or publicly after the bombing. It is quite possible this will constrain her ability to be a national figure.

On the other hand, it might get her more popularity, a sort of sympathy vote.

Sure. There is always the chance that there will be a reaction in the sense that if the extremists are going after her, she becomes the repository of hopes—which still represents the view of most Pakistanis—that their country not be taken over or disrupted by people who are largely seen as non-Pakistani, or people acting in a nontraditional, non-Pakistani way. What you are seeing in Pakistan is the latest version of “blowback.” After years where the Pakistanis and the Pakistani intelligence services were the base and support for the mujahadeen in Afghanistan, now we’re seeing elements of what many are calling the “Talibanization” of Pakistan. Extremists and terrorists have put down deep roots in the western areas, in the FATA, and the North West [Frontier Province]. What is worrying is that they are beginning to spread out into some of the urban centers that form the core of the country.

[Naresh]

[center]<b><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>Fatal attack on Pakistan troops</span></b> <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo-->[/center]

At least 18 Pakistani soldiers have been killed in an attack on an army vehicle in the northern region of Swat.

The attack comes one day after the army deployed 2,500 more troops in the area to combat rising militancy.

Some civilians are reported to be among the dead. More than 35 people were taken to hospital for treatment.

The Swat valley in North West Frontier Province has become a stronghold of an anti-government militant leader, Maulana Fazlullah.

He has reportedly used radio broadcasts to call for jihad, or holy war, against the Pakistani authorities.

<b>'Huge explosion'</b>

The army vehicle, carrying munitions, exploded in the attack in Mingora, the main town in the district of Swat.

Most reports indicate that the blast was caused by a roadside bomb.

"It was a huge explosion. Then the truck was on fire," student Taj Mohammed Khan said, the Associated Press news agency reports.

"There were flames, smoke and people crying. People were scared to go near because bullets were going off."

Police say that civilian bystanders were killed or injured.

Dr Asadullah of the Saidu Sharif hospital in Mingora said 18 bodies had been brought in, many of them charred by the blast and fire that erupted afterwards.

At least 35 injured people were being treated by hospital staff, he said.

A local journalist at the scene told the BBC the death toll could be higher because many dead bodies of civilians were not taken to the hospital.

He said about 45 paramilitary troops were sitting in the truck when it was hit by an improvised explosive device planted on the road side.

<b>'Restoring order'</b>

The main military spokesman, Maj Gen Waheed Arshad told the BBC that the dead troops were all paramilitary soldiers.

The army said on Tuesday that the 2,500 soldiers deployed there as reinforcements were setting up checkpoints across Swat, a valley popular with tourists until an upsurge of violence earlier this year.

"The deployment may cause inconvenience to local population, but it is necessary to restore law and order in Swat," the caretaker Chief Minister of North West Frontier Province (NWFP), Shamsul Mulk, told the BBC.

In July at least 10 Pakistani soldiers were killed in a militant attack in Swat.

It was part of a wave of attacks on the army in response to the security forces' storming of the radical Red Mosque in the capital, Islamabad that left more than 100 people dead.

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Naresh]

[center]<b><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>THIRTY</span></b>[/center]

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

Where is statement from Moron Singh that "Pakistan is victim of Terrorism". It is now over 3 hours.

[Guest]

<b>Bhutto 'suspicious of regime'</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->(CNN) -- Former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto told CNN she suspects members of President Gen. Pervez Musharraf's regime may have been indirectly involved in last week's suicide bombing that targeted her convoy<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nothing new. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Naresh]

<b>Nawaz not to return before polls: Musharraf</b>

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->ISLAMABAD, Oct 25 : President Pervez Musharraf said on Thursday that former prime minister Nawaz Sharif would not return before the general elections, rejecting reports about his expected homecoming soon.

<b>He said the ruling Pakistan Muslim League and its allies were in a position to win the elections and the next prime minister would be from the PML.</b> <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Naresh]

<b>Mudy :</b>

It seems that BB was aware of the intended "Suicide Bombers" and was on the Throne <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo--> - safely tucked away from the Blast(s) :

<b>Party official Qasim Zia told Dawn news that <span style='color:red'>Ms Bhutto was using a toilet inside the bus when the explosion occurred.</span></b>

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

I doubt, BB planned it, too risky, I still suspect Mushy and ISI together.

[Naresh]

[center]<b><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>Pakistani Militants Behead 4 Officers</span></b>[/center]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>SWAT, Pakistan (AP) — militants reportedly captured and beheaded three militiamen and a police officer Friday</b> while government troops and helicopter gunships attacked the nearby stronghold of a radical cleric in northwestern Pakistan.

The fighting came a day after a suicide bombing killed 20 people in another part of Swat district in the intensifying conflict between the U.S.-allied government of President Gen. Pervez Musharraf and pro-Taliban forces in the volatile tribal region along the Afghan border.

<b>After killing the four security officers, the militants displayed the severed heads in Imam Dheri village near Swat, said Badshah Gul Wazir, home secretary for the volatile North West Frontier Province bordering Afghanistan.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

This is serious. Islamist are fighting with each other. Mushy recent diversion towards India didn't work.

[Naresh]

[center]<b><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>Pakistan militants behead 13 people</span></b> <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo-->[/center]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Militants seized and beheaded 13 civilians and security officers in north-west Pakistan after government troops launched an assault on a radical cleric's hideout, officials say.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Shambhu]

It is with tears of appreciation in my eyes that I congratulate the Islamic Republic of Pakistan for cultivating, fostering, supporting, encouraging, mandating, inculcating, and in general helping along the sentiment of pro-Islam anti-Hindu Pakiness.

Each of the severed heads bears mute but smiling testimony to the foreskins and foresight of the founders and flounderers of Pakistan and its foreign, internal, and socio-political policy.


La ilaha illa Al-Pakistan
Jinnah rasool Allah

Bolo Takbir:
Allah o Akbar

Bolo Takbir:
Allah o Akbar

Bolo Takbir:
Allah o Akbar

[Naresh]

[center]<b><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>Five dead in blast in Rawalpindi</span></b>[/center]

<b>RAWALPINDI : A suicide bomber blown himself at Katchehry Chowk of Rawalpindi Tuesday, reportedly killing five persons and injuring several others, reports said.</b>

"A suicide bomber blown up himself near a police checkpost," Pakistan’s ministry of interior sources said in Islamabad.

The ambulances were seen rushing to the area where the blast was heard.

Security forces have cordoned off the area. Ten injured have been shifted to CMH Rawalpindi, reports said.

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Naresh]

<img src='http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/oct-2007/31/image/max.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Naresh]

<b>Mudy Ji :

This is a confirmation of your Post #22 Oct 20 2007, 11:54 AM :</b> <!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[center]<b><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>Benazir Bhutto to travel to Dubai</span></b> <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo-->[/center]

<b>KARACHI, Oct 31 (AP) <span style='color:red'>Former Pakistan Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto may soon travel to Dubai to visit her husband and three children,</span> her party spokesman said Wednesday</b>. Spokesman Farhatullah Babar said no schedule had been set for a visit to the Arab emirate, although other Benazir aides said she could leave as early as Wednesday evening. The aides, requesting anonymity because they were not authorized to reveal the plans, said the opposition leader would remain in Dubai until the Supreme Court decides whether President Gen. Pervez Musharraf's recent election victory was constitutional. A ruling in that case is expected by Friday. Babar said Benazir would meet with party leaders at her Karachi residence Wednesday and that those consultations could go into the night. ''She might be going to see her husband and children, but a date is not set yet,'' Babar said. ''Whether it would be this week or next week, I'm really not in a position to say.'' Babar said Benazir still planned to visit Rawalpindi, near the capital, Islamabad, on November 9. The aides said she would fly there directly after her visit to Dubai. (Posted @ 14:20 PST)

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

So Mushy won this round or we can say China's new stooge showed middle finger to Unkle's new hire BB. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->