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Pakistan News And Discussion-12
Delusions of the highest order. They want to compare themselves with big nations

American is rich but has high crime. Britain has a great history but has a troubled royal family.
China has a strong military but supports communism.
Pakistan has beautiful people but has bad neighbors. <!--emo&Wink--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->

pure land pure people
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Pakistan has beautiful people but has bad neighbors.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is true, they are bad for neighbors. <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>President to remain army chief if not re-elected:</b> SC told
ISLAMABAD, Sept 25 (PPI) –The nine-member larger bench of the Supreme Court headed by justice Rana Bhagwandas was informed by Attorney General Malik Mohammad Qayyum on Tuesday that President General Pervez Musharraf will remain the Chief of Army Staff if not re-elected as President for the second term. The bench is hearing a set of identical constitutional petitions against holding of dual offices by President Musharraf and his candidacy for the forthcoming presidential election. Justice Javed Iqbal asked the Attorney General what would happen<b> if General Musharraf was not re-elected as President. Malik Qayyum replied that President Musharraf will remain the Chief of Army Staff till the election of a new President as well as appointment of a new Army Chief by the newly elected President. He submitted that there was no age limit for the retirement of a four- star general under the Army Act.</b> He referred to various decisions of the superior courts in support of his arguments and contended that the courts have validated the actions taken by the then President and Chief Executive. Justice Javed Iqbal observed that the Attorney General was referring to decisions which were given under the doctrine of necessity, which has now been buried. He observed that now no decision would be given by the apex court on the basis of doctrine of necessity. He said the issue before the court was of the 17th Amendment which was passed by the Parliament. Referring to the term of the President, Malik Qayyum contended that the President has completed only one term under the constitution and he intends to be a candidate for the second term. To a court query, regarding rejection of nomination papers filed by other civil servants, Malik Qayyum said the Chief Election Commissioner would be in a position to reject them but he cannot reject the papers filed by President Musharraf under Act-7 of the Parliament that has given him an immunity/protection. . He contended that the petitions were not maintainable because these did not involve enforcement of fundamental rights. He said qualification of a candidate was not a matter of public importance as well as fundamental right. Justice Rana Bhagwandas observed that the apex court was hearing the petitions for the last 10days whereas the Attorney General was still contending that these were not maintainable. He also observed that the petition of Jamaat-e-Islami prima facie was seemed to be maintainable. If the petitioners think that their petitions were maintainable then they should move the High Court under Article 199 of the constitution to seek remedy, the Attorney General argued. His arguments were still continuing when the bench rose to re-assemble on Wednesday. President’s senior counsel Syed Sharifuddin Pirzada will also advance his arguments on Wednesday. (Posted @ 19:55 PST)
<!--QuoteBegin-"ramana"+-->QUOTE("ramana")<!--QuoteEBegin-->Deccan Chronicle, 24 Sept., 2007

<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
The Pak state of general panic
By Vikram Sood

All is not well in Musharraf’s realm as the General faces multiple crises — of legitimacy, credibility and authority. <b>The entire trans-border of Pakistan-Afghanistan is today a vast SEZ of International Terror Inc.</b> International terrorists like Tahir Yuldashev (Islamic Movement of Turkestan), various factions of the Taliban with Baitullah Mehsud as the most important leader in South Waziristan, Abu Kasha, the Iraqi, and Najmuddin, the Uzbek, operate in North Waziristan along with the Al Qaeda and others. They conduct their business from these safe havens.

The pattern of terrorist violence after the Lal Masjid episode has changed. Twelve soldiers were killed in Dera Ismail Khan in a suicide attack, about 300 soldiers were kidnapped by the Taliban in Waziristan early in September, 12 policemen were kidnapped from Bannu, a "settled area" of NWFP, unlike the ungovernable FATA. A bomb blast in Rawalpindi in September killed 29 personnel, mostly from the ISI. On the day US deputy secretary of State John Negroponte was in Islamabad, a Pushtoon officer blew himself up killing 19 commandos of the SSG in Tarbela, south of Islamabad. Terror now stalks the sanctum sanctorum of Pakistan — the Pakistan Army.

Meanwhile, helicopter gun ships were once again deployed this year in the Makeen area of South Waziristan. This was in retaliation against tribesmen who had repeatedly attacked a military post on the night of September 12, killing 124 security personnel. Artillery was used against tribesmen in Razmak and Datta Khel in North Waziristan.

It is not easy to kidnap 300 armed and trained personnel. It is not known whether these soldiers, surprised and overpowered by overwhelming force, had voluntarily surrendered without a fight, or had refused to fight. If they had surrendered, then they had no will to fight. <b>But if they had refused to fight, possibly by saying that they were not trained to fight other Muslims, then this could only mean that the Pakistan Army has problems that are more serious than imagined.</b>

Most of these incidents, especially the kidnapping, the bomb blasts in Rawalpindi against the ISI and the suicide attack in the high security SSG campus, mean that the attackers had accurate intelligence in each case. It also means that this intelligence emanated from within these set-ups. Recall that terrorists had perfect intelligence about Gen. Musharraf’s movements when they almost succeeded in assassinating him three years ago in Rawalpindi. In his autobiography, In the Line of Fire, Musharraf has mentioned that one of the conspirators was from the SSG. Musharraf just got lucky.

Earlier this year, Pakistani authorities disclosed that about 1,400 people had been killed in over 100 military operations in South and North Waziristan. Clashes between the tribesmen and the security forces have continued for some years now, but the frequency and the efficacy of the attacks on the security forces have increased. This is especially noticeable after the commando action in Lal Masjid in July 2007: 300 persons were killed, many of whom were Pushtoons and from the Waziristan area. A Pakistan ministry of interior document admitted that government forces had forfeited authority to the Taliban and their allies, and even places like Peshawar, Kohat and Nowshera were facing Talibanisation, that the security forces in NWFP and the tribal region had been outgunned and outnumbered. (There are about 80,000 to 100,000 troops in the region.)

It is apparent that Islamic radicals have been gaining in Pakistan and their strength worries even elected parties like the MMA in NWFP. The regime invariably handles the Taliban and religious extremists with kid gloves, for they are Islamic warriors, armed and dangerous, with sympathisers in high places. On the other hand, Nawaz Sharif’s short lived homecoming was handled swiftly and more with bravado than self assurance. It was the act of a regime that is getting desperate to cling to power and panicking that nothing is working in its favour. Musharraf may have succeeded, in his own eyes, of having got rid of the "problem," but this is likely to come back to haunt him.

<b>Sixty years ago, Pakistan had only one monopoly shareholder — the United Kingdom. Then the United States took over and today Pakistan is actually like a failed MNC with the major stake holders — the US, the UK and Saudi Arabia trying to shore up this failing company.</b> The "Chief Executive" (that was what Musharraf called himself when he ousted Nawaz) has been underperforming, but has to be rescued. That is why there have been international managers like Messrs Boucher and Negroponte rushing into Islamabad to support the CEO in public and admonish him in private.

<b>China, the fourth shareholder in Pakistan, is worried too as its citizens continue to be killed in Baluchistan or are taken hostage elsewhere. Further, Uighur Islamists from Xinjiang have been receiving training along with Uzbeks, Tajiks and Chechens in the Waziristan areas.</b> Pakistani troops began hunting for Uighur Muslims in Waziristan along with their Uzbek and Tajik sympathisers. Hasan Mahsum, the leader of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement, who was wanted by the Chinese authorities, was killed in a gunfight with Pakistani troops in October 2004. A week later, militants kidnapped two Chinese engineers from South Waziristan, a uranium rich area. Earlier this year, the Pakistan Army launched a massive attack against the Uzbeks and Uighurs in South Waziristan suspected by the Chinese to be carrying out subversion in Xinjiang. Very few survived this attack and the rest fled to North Waziristan.

Across <b>the Pakistan-Afghanistan border,</b> the situation in the Pushtoon areas of south and east Afghanistan remains grim for President Hamid Karzai. Nato forces have been unable to assert themselves and the Taliban have killed 300 Afghan policemen in recent months. <b>The battle now seems to be more than a battle between the Taliban and foreign troops or Afghan troops. It has become a battle between the Pushtoon in Afghanistan versus the foreigners, and between the Pushtoon in Pakistan and the rest of the Pakistanis in Pakistan.</b> This is happening in a country where the regime is wary of even renaming NWFP as Pakhtoonkhwa for fear that this may sow the seeds of Pushtoon nationalism.

<i>{Hats off to Paul for first catching the drift of whats really happening in the NWFP areas!}</i>

<b>The Pakistan Army in the last 60 years has begun to resemble the East India Company, acquiring prime land at privileged prices, managing all trade and industrial houses in the country, running the country’s logistic systems, constructing highways and playing politics, setting up the Mohajirs against the Punjabis and religious elements against the nationalists. The Pakistan Army has a country to exploit.</b> This has made Pakistan a global rogue State but no one is willing to say so.

A regime that is running scared of unarmed politicians, and either connives with or appeases terrorists, and in the process violates every written statute, is staring at a bleak future. When leaders openly disregard laws and the Constitution, then the followers can only do worse. <b>Gen. Vinod Sehgal in his book Restructuring Pakistan (2001) had five main worries about Pakistan. These were the Talibanisation of Pakistan, a civil war breaking out in the country, further spread of State-sponsored terrorism from the Afghan-Pakistan frontier, the spread of nuclear materials from Pakistan and the spread of regressive Islam into the subcontinent.</b> It seems all this is taking place. Maulana Abu Ala Mawdoodi was prophetic when seeing the bloodshed and the killings during the partition of India, he remarked that "the bloody birth pangs of Pakistan" were "predicting the birth of a monster and not a human being."

The worst is yet to be.

Vikram Sood is a former chief of RAW

[center]<b><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Letter Number 7 : Religion and cricket</span></b> <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo-->[/center]

<b>Sir : The defeat in the final of the Twenty20 tournament should make it clear to the nation that religious beliefs have nothing to do with sports. Everybody was expecting Pakistan to win the final as it was being played in the month of Ramadan. The 1992 World Cup was won in Ramadan with the wrong conception that the title was won due to the prayers of the faithful in the holy month.</b> The clear message of Islam is that whosoever works hard will be rewarded. Prayers without effort have no consequence. For the first time the bowling and fielding was much improved due to hard work and not just prayers. The religious brigade in the team should change their attitude towards the game and avoid bringing religion into cricket. The faith of the nation must be coupled with hard work in training and consistent performances on the pitch.

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->
They lost match because people eat and drink alcohol during Ramadan in Pakistan. I think they lost match because Allah was unhappy and now he can give them used houris.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Pakistan rejects Benazir’s statement on access to Dr A.Q. Khan </b>ISLAMABAD, Sept 26 (AFP) Pakistan's government Wednesday condemned ex-premier Benazir Bhutto for saying she would let the UN quiz Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan if she regained power. Imran Khan and other opposition leaders also criticised Benazir for saying that she would allow UN inspectors to question Dr. Khan. Federal Minister for Railways, Sheikh Rashid Ahmed said Dr A.Q. Khan would not be handed over to anyone nor anyone could have direct access to him. “We cannot compromise on it and the statement of Benazir is highly condemnable.” “Pakistan cannot allow any interference in its affairs. We have ourselves investigated A.Q. Khan's case, we don't think it needs to be taken up again,” Deputy Information Minister Tariq Azeem said. “There is a strong reaction in Pakistan over Benazir Bhutto's statement on A.Q. Khan,” he told a private television channel. “This is a highly shameful statement,” Imran Khan said, adding that Benazir wanted the blessing of the United States to “take power and rid herself of corruption cases.” “Benazir Bhutto is doing everything to appease the United States,” said Liaquat Baloch, a senior member of the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal, or United Action Front, the country's main alliance of Islamic parties. “She wants to gain power and the people of Pakistan know that to achieve her objective she is ready to compromise the country's nuclear programme,” he told AFP. Hafiz Hussain Ahmed, leader of the Jamiat-Ulema-e-Islam party, said Benazir's statement was “against the solidarity and integrity of the country.” (First Posted @ 15:25 PST, Updated @ 21:05 PST)
Nevermind, India and Pakistan are same, UPA(Current ruling government of India) showed Kalam middle finger, but Mushy had tried home arrest to protect AQ Khan from US.
From above post:
<b>We have ourselves investigated A.Q. Khan's case, we don't think it needs to be taken up again</b>

<!--emo&Smile--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> It is like: "But I say there is no smell. So what if everyone else thinks there is a stink? I have smelled it, and I say it does not smell bad. End of story. We should stick to the farts..I mean, facts"
I don't understand something. It is widely accepted that aqkhan stole technology from his scandinavian employer (Holland or Denmark). Can they not file a case for prosecuting him? That will force pakistan (whoever is in power) to extradite him or take a position that they will not comply.

Either way, the facade of "we have tried aqkhan, so you don't need access" will be rent asunder.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't understand something. It is widely accepted that aqkhan stole technology from his scandinavian employer (Holland or Denmark). <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Where is proof ? and who will provide proof for case?
What you think how other countries including US had got their Nukes?
<!--QuoteBegin-Sadamarshna+Sep 27 2007, 03:20 AM-->QUOTE(Sadamarshna @ Sep 27 2007, 03:20 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't understand something. It is widely accepted that aqkhan stole technology from his scandinavian employer (Holland or Denmark). Can they not file a case for prosecuting him? That will force pakistan (whoever is in power) to extradite him or take a position that they will not comply.

Either way, the facade of "we have tried aqkhan, so you don't need access" will be rent asunder.

Basically Unkill Sam has decided to adopt the credo "Past is Past" as far as Pak is concerned. So even though they (US State Dept etc) receive a steady stream of evidence that AQK was supported by the Pak Establishment in all his cheating, stealing, etc., they will not make it public, nor will they embarass Pak by asking for AQK's extradition; and will be satisfied with Pak's own "investigations". This is because US SD wants no instability in Pak/Mush, since they believe Pak/Mush is their best bet in their "War on Terror". So no questions will be asked.

Which seems to be working well for us, since it has shown jehadis in Pak what a US puppy Mush is. So now jehadi vs Mush/Military fireworks are on. Let them kill each other, in the name of the Most Merciful, I say!!! AQK etc can be conveniently re-opened when things get a bit slow...
<!--emo&Smile--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[center] <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo--><b><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>Pakistan likely to face 15 Per Cent water shortage</span></b> <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo-->[/center]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>ISLAMABAD, Sept 26 : Pakistan is likely to face more than 15 per cent water shortage during the Rabi season starting on October 1 due to decline in river flows and storage capacity of dams, it is learnt.

As a result of the expected shortage, the dispute over water shortage would re-emerge between Punjab and Sindh because of divergent interpretation of the relevant clauses of the 1991 water accord. Sources said that about 10 per cent shortage is expected due to silting of dams and resultant decline in storage capacity and another five per cent were statistical shortages.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[center]<b><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Colleges not conducive to grooming</span></b>[/center]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>SIALKOT, Sept 26 : Educational institutions in Sialkot are facing a number of problems affecting the level of learning and teaching, Dawn has learnt.

Most of the colleges face shortage of facilities like drinking water and classrooms while many teaching posts have been lying vacant there since long.

The Government Boys’ College of Sambrial needs to be shifted to other place. Presently, it is located on a highway, beside a railway track and a canal. <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Foul-emitting tanneries make it difficult for students to study in classrooms. The Government Commercial College is functioning in the historical Sialkot Fort, which is even smaller than a primary school.</span></b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[center]<b><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>YOGI BERRA’S DÉJÀ VU "ALL OVER AGAIN"</span></b> <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo-->[/center]

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Muhammad Yousuf shrugged off Indian Cricket league, says will play for PCB.

They wer eshowing his press conference on CNNIBN. I heard him say - 'jis team ne mujhe islam diya wo main kaise chhod sakta hun?' - The team which gave me islam can I ditch that team? They did not show this part again.

After losing the T20 final, Pakistan captain thanked Umma. Thanks for the prayers of the muslims in all countries. Imagine the rhetoric if they would have won.
Dhula is getting ready after filing nomination, lets see were we will see real reception. <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>A Westernized, chain-smoking spy could soon become the most powerful man in Pakistan</b>
Any thoughts? Barati will be from NW or Balochi or Afghani?
<b>Militants blow up Buddha statue in Swat</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->MINGORA: Some unidentified militants blew up the historic statue of Buddha in Jihan Abad area of Swat district on Saturday.

Talking to The News, Muhammad Aqleem, deputy curator of Swat Museum, said some unidentified militants had exploded the 7th century historic statue of Buddha in Jihan Abad area of district Swat on Saturday night. "This is second attack on the 7th century statue of Buddha. The fresh attack caused irreparable loss to its head and also damaged its shoulders."

The curator maintained that the statue belonged to 7th century A.D, and it was the most complete and inspiring symbol of Gandahara art. After the historic statues of Bamyan in Afghanistan, which were destroyed by the Taliban, the swat statue was the sole example of Buddhist cultural heritage.

"It was seven meters tall and 20 feet high from the land, showing Buddha in the condition of meditation. I don't know what they want to achieve by such actions," he added. Aqleem said he had reported the incident to the local police but he did not think that the police would be able to protect Buddhist cultural sites in swat as they themselves were the victims of terrorist attacks.

<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Sep 30 2007, 09:23 AM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Sep 30 2007, 09:23 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Dhula is getting ready after filing nomination, lets see were we will see real reception. <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>A Westernized, chain-smoking spy could soon become the most powerful man in Pakistan</b>
Any thoughts? Barati will be from NW or Balochi or Afghani?

<b>Mudy Ji :</b>

I think the Kiyanis are Pushtoons.

His appointment has come directly form Ye Ol’ Whitey House!

Any case whether it is Mush the Tush or Kiyani the “New Mush the Tush” or BB their Hatred for Non-Muslims in General and Hindus in Particular is legendry and all consuming.

I would suggest you get hold of “Bhutto” by Stanley Wolpert and therein you will find the Hatred of Hindus stated by Haridas Bhutto.

Haridas Bhuttos’s Mother Lakhi Bai - who took the name Lady Khurshid after being acquired by Haridas’ Father - was not acceptable to the Hindu Society in Sind accept on Official Occasions.

As such Haridas was not welcome into Hindu homes and Hindu Social Life.

As such there will never - I repeat never - be Peace between the Jamhuriya Islamia Al Bakistan and India

<b><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Plus ça change plus c'est la même chose</span></b>

You said "Baratis" : Did you mean "Pall Bearers"?

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->You said "Baratis" : Did you mean "Pall Bearers"?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah! those who will bring Janaja or assassin
Nareshji, please post more about lakhi bai urf lady khurshid. thank you.

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