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Christian Subversion And Missionary Activities - 3
Barack Obama: Christian Religion, Faith & Politics</b>
Vatican changes prayer for Jews

By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer Tue Feb 5, 5:22 PM ET

VATICAN CITY - The Vatican on Tuesday issued a new version of a Roman Catholic prayer that had long offended Jews, but some said the changes don't go far enough.

Jewish groups said they interpreted the new version of the prayer for Jews as requiring members of their faith — and all of humanity — to convert to Christianity in order to find salvation.

The prayer for Jews is recited during Good Friday services of Easter Week, the most solemn week in the Christian calendar, in which the faithful commemorate the suffering and death of Jesus Christ before his resurrection on Easter.

The prayer is part of the old Latin rite, also known as the Tridentine rite, which was celebrated before the liberalizing reforms of the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s paved the way for the New Mass used widely today in local languages.

Last summer, Pope Benedict XVI allowed wider use of the old Latin rite. That prompted criticism from Jewish groups who had long been offended by the Good Friday prayer and lamented that it might be celebrated more broadly.

To answer their concerns, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, No. 2 at the Vatican, said last summer the issue would be resolved and on Tuesday his office published the new text of the prayer, in Latin, on the front page of the Vatican newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano.

According to an unofficial translation, the prayer now reads:

"Let us pray for the Jews. May the Lord our God illuminate their hearts so that they may recognize Jesus Christ savior of all men. ... Almighty and everlasting God, you who wants all men to be saved and to gain knowledge of the truth, kindly allow that, as all peoples enter into your Church, all of Israel be saved."

The prayer removes key words that Jews had found particularly offensive in the earlier version, including a reference to their "blindness" and the need to "remove the veil from their hearts."

The paper said the new text would be used starting on Good Friday this year, which falls on March 21.

Vatican officials had said previously that the prayer would continue to urge Jews to convert, since Catholics always pray for the conversion of all Christians and non-Christians alike.

Rabbi David Rosen, a key Jewish-Vatican liaison and head of inter-religious relations at the American Jewish Committee, said he was disappointed by the new text.

"It's pretty clear that there's no fullness of salvation outside the Church" under the prayer's language, he said.

<b>Christians fighting among themselves in an church.</b>

Bishop attacked in Nellai church
The New Indian Express
Date: February 6, 2008

A long standing factional rivalry in the Tirunelveli diocese of Church of South India came to a head on Tuesday when Bishop Rev S Jayapaul David was attacked by a group at Cathedral Church in Palayamkottai.

The bishop had come to the church in the morning for a meeting of priests when a group stormed in, smashed chairs and microphones, and raised slogans against him. Some of the intruders then assaulted the bishop. The priests' attempts to rescue him failed and the bishop's driver Backyanathan, who tried to intervene, was also beaten up. The mob also smashed the windscreen of the bishop's car.

A police team led by Palayamkottai Inspector rescued the bishop and picked up Selvaraj (47) of Melaseval, Gunapaul Jayasingh (59) of Yemankulam, Kingsley (31) of Pattamadai and Paul Balasingam (65) of Mukkoodal for interrogation.

The attack is reportedly a fallout of the recent elections in the diocese, which was fiercely contested by two factions - one headed by the bishop and the other by the diocesean Secretary A D J C Dhinakar. The bishop plans to initiate action against the attackers as per the diocesean laws.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>What really happened in Kandhamal</b>
By Ashok Sahu I.P.S. (Retd.)

Kandhamal, literally an area inhabited by the Kandha tribes in Orissa and grouped as a district since 1994, all of a sudden came to limelight on the eve of X-mass celebrations last year end. The Kui Co-ordination Committee had given a protest call for ‘Bundh’ on December 25 and 26 2007, having failed to get their genuine grievances redressed by the State Government. Their grievances were directed against the converted ‘Pana’ Christians who in order to retain their privileges under the Constitution of India have been contriving to get re-enlisted as Scheduled Tribe by manipulating a notification by the President of India under Article 342 of the Constitution. It appears that the dates for mass protest were selected deliberately to embarrass the local Missionary authorities who traditionally utilised X-mass celebrations for mass conversion among the poor tribes. Besides the aforesaid manipulation, the dubious manner in which the tribal lands were grabbed by the Church authorities at the behest of high officials in the Revenue Department under Orissa Government, had also agitated the Kandha tribe in general. They were revolting against the Pana leaders like Minister Padmanabh Behera, M.L.A. Sugriva Singh, and Pana Christian bureaucrats like Radhakanta Nayak, Isaac Behera, John Nayak, Sailendra Pradhan etc. during last many occasions. Minister Padmanabh Behera had to resign in the wake of the recent violence in Kandhamal district, when the fate of the Congress Rajya Sabha MP Radhakanta Nayak appears to be getting brighter with the blessings of Sonia Gandhi who herself is a Catholic Christian. The Union Home Minister Shivraj Patil was the first visitor to the affected areas but conspicuous exclusion of Brahmanigaon, the epicenter of the series of recent violence and disorder from his itinerary has been the subject of severe criticism in the press and the public.

<b>The protest ‘Bundh’ would perhaps passed off unnoticed outside the State, but for the obstinacy of the converted Christians to defile the Puja Mandap in Brahmanigaon, an altar where traditionally the Hindus used to celebrate Durga Puja every year.</b> Over last two decades, the Hindus in Brahmanigaon were reduced to a minority by mass proselytisation in the district, particularly under the Daringbadi Block, the native village of notorious Radhakanta Nayak. On December 22, 2007, John Nayak, a retired IPS officer had informed the local administration to remain alert for a communal onslaught in the area. This is also confirmed by the National Minority Commission, which visited the affected areas and released its findings to the press in New Delhi on January 17, 2008. <b>On December 23 defying the Superintendent of Police, the Church authorities pitted tents and canopies for X-mass celebration on the disputed plot and also torched one hotel and two shops in Brahmanigaon belonging to Hindus, in the very presence of the District Superintendent of Police. </b>The following day, Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati on his way to Brahmanigaon, was ambushed by busloads of hooligans arranged by Radhakanta Nayak in his village at Dasingbadi under Daringbadi Block. <b>About 200 armed converted Christians attacked Swamijee injuring him and his armed security personnel, driver etc. This was enough to ignite the already surcharged atmosphere to go on indiscriminate attack on the Pana Christians and their leaders. </b>It may be mentioned here that the Kandha tribe are a peace loving people but once rubbed on the wrong side can be very violent and difficult to be pacified. <b>The tense situation was further compounded by an unprovoked lathi charge on the followers of Swamijee who had congregated at the Daringbadi police station in support of their beloved Swamijee who had spent 40 years in company of the Kandha tribe to protect them from the clutches of the proselytisers, and long cherished tribal culture of the Kandha. </b>There were murderous attacks on the Swamijee even earlier engineered by the Church in 1967, 1969, 1976, 1978, 1982, 1985, and 1995.

The local churches get lot of foreign contributions to promote proselytisation under direct tutelage of the USA, Canada, Australia and many European countries. There are NGOs like the World Vision, YMCA, NISWAS and Jana Kalyan Sangha, which get lots of financial aid even from the government, which are promoting religious conversion of the Pana and Kandha community. There has been a long-standing dispute between the converted Pana Christians and the Kandha tribes in matters of employment under reserved quota for government jobs, distribution of land holdings earmarked for tribal development and illegal occupation of these by the Church authorities, and conversion to Christianity by fraud, allurement and cheating. Despite many protests and representations to the State Chief Minister, their grievances remained unattended and unfulfilled. Even orders from the High Court have not been implemented by the State Government. Surprisingly, the National Minority Commission has given a clean chit to the Chief Minister but blamed the District Administration for the recent violence, as if the Chief Minister has no control on the latter. It may be recalled that the Pana Caste are not the indigenous population of the district, rather they have migrated from the neighbouring Nayagarh and Ganjam districts from pre-Independence, mostly after being converted to Christianity. They have been learning the Kui dialect which is the mother tongue of the Kandha in order to claim and confuse their class identity against which the indigenous Kandha tribe have been revolting since 1997. <b>Taking advantage of the sporadic damage done to the Church properties during the recent provocated disturbances, the Pana Christians who are notorious for being very ‘cunning’ and unscrupulous have reportedly torched many of their thatched Churches, themselves with the hope to attract more funds from abroad </b>and grant from the government under relief for damage during ‘communal strife’. However, six churches and more than sixty thatched prayer centres were shown damaged to qualify for relief grants. More than 350 Hindus were rendered homeless who were in minority surrounded by the Pana Christians in Brahmanigaon, Kinarinuagaon, Godapur, Katingia and Daringbadi. <b>Three Hindu temple and more than two thousand ‘Dharani Penu’ sites of worship of Kandha tribes have been reduced to dust by the converted Christians. </b>One Khageswar Mallik aged about 30 years was lynched to death by stoning by Pana Christians comprising mostly women. More than 10 Maoists were killed in an encounter when they attacked the Brahmanigaon police post, but as usual, the radicals dragged the dead bodies of their colleagues fearing identification. One dead body from among the Maoists has been recovered who is suspected to be an outsider and not belonging to the near-by villages. More than 130 persons have been arrested most of whom are Hindus because; the Church authorities had prepared ahead of the incidents what to write and whom to implicate. Most of the Hindu victims had fled to the nearby forests being afraid of the Police officers from among the converted Christians. The partisan attitude of the Police in bringing the culprits to book might further delay the slow process of restoration of peace and normalcy in the district. Indiscriminate arrests of innocent Hindus under political pressure would only delay the peace process.

Now, the basic issues need be addressed without bothering about the political stakes. Nevertheless, the BJD, major partner in the government is trying to profit by blaming the saffron brigade, which would in long run benefit their common enemy that is Congress. Delay in redress of the genuine grievances of the Kui speaking Kandha tribes would only complicate the situation for which the government will have to pay a heavy price. Despite many distorted versions of the incidents in Kandhamal district, the fact remains that these violence were mainly due to dispute between the Pana Christians and the Kandha tribes over local issues with socio-economic and political consequences. <b>Before the nation came to know of the incidents, distorted, highly motivated and grossly misleading versions were given wide publicity to tarnish the secular image of India by the electronic media and the English print media transmitted from abroad like one Angana Chatterji. </b>Such distortions will only compound and precipitate the communal strife in the region.

Rape of minors by Missionary School officials in Orissa

<b>Hardly the wound inflicted by the Pana Christians had healed and the normalcy was limping back in the district of Kandhamal, fresh incidents of rape on tribal minors are reported from other parts in Orissa. </b>On January 12, 2008 (Saturday) Dipa and Padmini, two minor tribal students were reportedly being brutally raped by the Director of Agate Manor International School that houses ‘orphans’ and homeless children from tribal pockets. The other accomplice in the crime was his 38-year-old younger brother named Anargala Lima. The incident was witnessed by another minor tribal girl Rukmani Hembrem (10 years old), a student of the same school who out of panic and shock fled from the sight lest she would also be a similar victim in the hands of the same perpetrator. Terrified Rukmani in a forlorn state was detected, the next day, by the villagers in Talpadar Tikra, a small village 25 kilometers from Bargarh district headquarters. She narrated the incident to them and sought protection. The villagers when confronted, the Principal, Mr. G. Appa Rao, demanded medical treatment for the two victim girls, and handing over to the local police. As the tension was mounting, both the Principal Mr. Rao and Director Samarpana Lima (43) along with his brother Anargala Lima (38), allegedly the co-rapist in the incident, all ran for their life. The Principal had managed the disappearance of the victim girls who could not be traced even by the Superintendent of Police. In order to calm down the enraged villagers, the SP assured to bring the culprits to book within twenty-four hours. <b>There is tension in the area and people are agitated against the Missionaries that in the name of service they collect huge sums to help the poor and rob the minor girls of their womanhood and deny them the minimum dignity that a woman deserves in a civilised society. </b>The villagers have lodged an FIR with the local police alleging rape and disappearance of the victims by Samarpana Lima and his brother Anargala Lima. What is disturbing the villagers is the safety of the lone witness to the gruesome rape by two fathers like figures on minor girls. The local SP has reportedly taken the lone witness Rukmani to his personal custody. Rape victims Dipa and Padmini are reportedly missing from the school. <b>Many such incidents are reportedly happening but going unreported because the Christian Missionaries are having influence over the local police officials with their money power.
Media mis-propaganda

<b>One Angana Chatterji was one of the first to write in the press distorting the whole episode that was published in a section of the English print media.</b> Earlier also, in 1999 a Christian nun was reportedly raped by Hindus in Baripada Bus Stand which was falsified by subsequent scrutiny of the facts in the incident. In 2002, in Mandasur one tribal girl was raped and after pregnancy was killed by the local church priest which was initially distorted by the misreporting in the Press. Even the reported killing of the Stains at Manoharpur village in 1999 was grossly distorted that even Hindus started believing the stories until in the courts of law these are gradually getting unmasked. Hence, mis-propaganda to defame the image of India or the Hindu community at large does not pay in the end. It only helps the mischief mongers to fish in troubled water.

(The writer is former Inspector General of Police, Assam.)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<img src='http://www.economist.com/images/20080209/0608AS4.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

India's Christians
The cross they bear

Feb 7th 2008 | BOTHALI
From The Economist print edition
Politics fuels religious violence

THE blackened shell of a burnt car lies in the yard of Radha Bai's farm in this bucolic village of whitewashed houses and unhurried bullock carts in the central Indian state of Chhattisgarh. On January 16th, as she prayed with a large group of Christians, a mob of Hindu extremists arrived. They chased worshippers away, set fire to a car and ten motorcycles and, says Mrs Bai, threatened to cut her “into pieces”.
AP Marching as to war

In recent weeks Hindu extremists in India's “tribal belt”—where missionaries have long sought to convert traditionally animist forest-dwellers—have stepped up a vicious anti-Christian campaign. Over Christmas in neighbouring Orissa mobs set fire to 55 churches and 600 houses. Asghar Ali Engineer, of the Centre for Study of Society and Secularism, a Mumbai think-tank, calls it the worst anti-Christian violence independent India has seen.

Ramesh Modi, Chhattisgarh state president of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, or World Hindu Council, which propagates “Hindutva”, or “Hinduness”, says that Christians are “responsible for the violence themselves”. Missionaries in the area, he says, are converting Hindus illegally. Chhattisgarh and Orissa are among several Indian states to have laws banning forced conversions.
It is true that an expansionist evangelist movement is in full swing in India's tribal belt. Its targets are tribal people, Hindus, even Christians, many of whom say they have switched churches to join independent Pentecostal groups. Officially, fewer than 3% of Indians are Christian. But Arun Pannalal, of the Chhattisgarh Christian Forum, reckons the true proportion may be twice that.</b> Christian converts often claim to be Hindus to keep access to government jobs and college places “reserved” for Hinduism's lower castes. Most Indian Christians are dalits, at the bottom of the caste system, once known as “untouchables”.
Mr Pannalal, whose own church belongs to the Anglican Communion, regrets the proselytising style of some pastors, and their habit of ripping into Hindu gods from the pulpit. </b>They lay themselves open to accusations of illegal conversion. More than 230 people have been arrested on conversion charges in the state in the past two years. But Mr Pannalal says very few cases go to court “because the conversions are not forced and there is no case”.
As in other religious conflicts in India, the trouble between Christians and Hindus in the tribal belt has more to do with politics than theology. </b>In Orissa, the Christmas violence was mostly directed at Catholics, who tend not to proselytise. But identifying religious minorities as a common enemy has proved an effective rallying cry for right-wing Hindu groups.

In December the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) won elections in the western state of Gujarat, where it has had a well-documented hand in the persecution of Muslims. Christians in the tribal belt believe Hindu extremists have been emboldened by its success. Later this year, Chhattisgarh itself goes to the polls. Christians fear more violence.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b> VHP ‘struggle’ groups to counter Christianity</b>
Express news service

Ayodhya, February 10

The Vishwa Hindu Parishad will mobilise the “Hindu masses” against the growing influence of Christianity in India. To counter Christian missionaries the VHP will form struggle groups at the village and block levels.

Addressing a meeting of VHP activists in Karsewakpuram, the VHP's local headquarters in Ayodhya, senior leader Narendra Singh Bhadauriya said the “influence of the Vatican City” is gradually taking over the political and economic systems of the country. Moreover, Congress president Sonia Gandhi is working as a “Vatican agent” here. He said that to launch a wide conversion movement in India, the Vatican has give $ 20,000 to Christian missionaries working here. He said that in south India the Christian population is growing very rapidly — it has crossed the 25 per cent mark in Kanyakumari, the 45 per cent mark in Orissa, the 40 per cent mark in Kerala and the 35 per cent mark in Tamil Nadu. This rapid growth of Christians is dominating the economy and political system there.

He also said states in the northeast — Tripura, Meghalaya, Mizoram, Nagaland and Assam — too have became totally “Christian states”.

Bhadauria said the senior leadership of the VHP has decided to form anti-missionary struggle groups in one million villages across India, with a central committee at the block and district levels, to “stop the growing influence of Christianity”.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Karat for Church-Left talks</b>

Evangelism & Conversion Methods
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->There are too many evangelist groups in India to cover in this article however; I will discuss a few of them to give a picture of how they proliferate.

The Indian Prayer + Fellowship Association has a goal to reach all non Christians to start cell groups. They have contacted over 16,000 houses, made almost 900 home contacts and over 1700 personal contacts. Their goal is to start cell groups than attach a full gospel group or plant a church if needed.They also supply tracts, literature etc. Indian Prayer And Fellowship Association ( http://www.geocities.com/athens/troy )

Partners International has the goal of training indigenous people to evangelize others. They are training a Christian who has converted to Christianity every 13 minutes. They claim planting a church every ten hours in Asia and Africa. ( http://www.partnersintl.org/aboutpi/welcome.html )

The southern Baptists plan to have 4,700 southern Baptists working with millions of international partners. Their goal is to have 15,000 career missionaries, 50,000 volunteers, and 1,000 southern Baptist college grads every year. The length of service for the college grads is to be two years. ( Baptist Press 11/22/99)

The evangelists strategy for North India includes treating Indian missions and Indian evangelists as equal considering that India has a strong GNP and a growing middle class. Due to the large population base the evangelists strategy includes dividing up the population base into smaller target groups such as women estimated to number 487 million or girls under 15 which is estimated to number 158 million. They plan to use literacy programs o target the illiterate which is estimated to be 48% of the population. They also plan to supply the Indian church with tools such as translators, humanitarian relief, etc. so the churches can become self sustaining and would not need outside assistance. ( http://www.gem-werc.org/mmrc9812.htm)

The evangelists India outreach teams -hbi ministries international India provide schools, orphanages, medical centers etc. In a six week period outreach teams ministered to 19,000 children and taught Hindu and Muslim students in Christian schools. ( http://www.gospel.net/hbi/iot/ )

Dr. Houtsma of World Outreach Ministries stated that he has helped train 160,000 national ministers to continue his work when he leaves. He is targeting Jammu, Vyara, Ludhiana, etc. ( http://www.wo.org/ )

One of the variables in training indigenous missionaries is the decreased cost to support missionaries. A foreign missionary cost at least $66,000 a year to support. Native missionaries cost approximately $600 a year. This greatly decreases the cost of evangelizing. Christian Aid. ( http://www.christianaid.org/ )

Native missionaries now do 90% of the work in starting churches. These people are more effective in converting people because They understand the language, customs, culture, etc. In addition recent converts are often more zealous in their efforts to convert people to their way of thinking. Hundreds of thousands of zealous converts can also have a sever profound influences on the political system that is in effect.

The reader of this article should be aware of the fact that these students could be influenced toward Christianity by their teachers. In addition orphanages can be the breeding ground for future evangelists. In an orphanage children could be brainwashed and conditioned during school and after school. The children in an orphanage can have their social life controlled after school so they only socialize with evangelists. These children have no family or other people outside of the evangelists to look after their welfare so they can easily be programmed.
It is interesting though sad to see the results that might occur as the evangelists enter their last stage of evangelism in India. You can see considerable backlash against evangelism as stated in the newspapers. Evangelists cry to the politicians, civil right groups and newspapers in the West.

Some questions must be asked though. Do evangelists have the right to disrupt society, culture, religion, and the family of people in other countries? Do people have the right to combat the attack on the culture, etc. of their country?
<!--QuoteBegin-acharya+Feb 12 2008, 11:25 PM-->QUOTE(acharya @ Feb 12 2008, 11:25 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->It is interesting though sad to see the results that might occur as the evangelists enter their last stage of evangelism in India. You can see considerable backlash against evangelism as stated in the newspapers. Evangelists cry to the politicians, civil right groups and newspapers in the West.

Some questions must be asked though. Do evangelists have the right to disrupt society, culture, religion, and the family of people in other countries? Do people have the right to combat the attack on the culture, etc. of their country?

Last stage of evangelism - How does one identify this last stage?
Implementation stage is the last stage of the conversion agenda.

They waited in the 1960s and 1970s to get an entire generation of Indians (born between 1940 to 1960)westernized.
They gave scholarship to select Indians to study sociology and media studies. These are the people now the owners of the Indian media - Roy, etc.

Then they had sociology studies in 1980s and the Christian missionaries getting knowledge of the social information of India. They did secret visit to every part of India to record and understand the local culture.

In the 1990s they took control of the media and made sure that the govt liberalized the media, commerce and depts so that they can infiltrate and penetrate the govt , society, education system, private sector and politics.

In the new century they are moving aggressive by planting cell and churches across the vast land of Bharat for the final kill.

They have done most of the work secretly and made sure that the Indian media does not arouse any suspicion in the Hindu society.
Acharya's post 352 just above is <i>far</i> more important.

<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Feb 1 2008, 05:06 PM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Feb 1 2008, 05:06 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>CHRISTIANS AGAINST PROSELYTISM</b>

Christians who support the declaration may ...[right][snapback]77913[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Oh, how sweet that is. Really. Quite touching. Sniff. Melodrama... Sniffles.

Christoterrorism starts a war, doesn't like it that we're fighting back and now wants to delay us by waving a false 'white flag of truce' (lull us into a false sense of security). Bully beating up kid, kid strikes back once, and bully cowed with shock and fear says: "we must not beat each other", all so it can get its fist clenched when it's ready to continue again.

But nah. Not going to happen. Christianism started the war, now it better bite the bullet.

Besides, a handful of christos may say no to conversion, but the rest will never do that (and will in fact ostracise the tiny numbers that do, so that the ostracised become the zillionth new christian cult). There's ~1.5 millennia of christoterrorist history to prove the truly terrorist nature of christoism. Only the most gullible will ignore the factual record and fall for the vampyre promising not to suck blood any more.

Even <i>if</i> some christians quit having conversion designs, there is no guarantee that their next generations won't go back to the unadulterated christoterrorist poison and join mainstream christoterrorism again: they <i>will</i> read their babble and become convinced about "going forth" to brainwash/bash all nations into submission.

If we step back to doing nothing but singing ignorantly that "all religions are one" - because we're too afraid to face the fact that some ideologies are rather just terrorism cloaked under legitimate-sounding PR - then their truce would have gained them time and strength (they'd have multiplied in a few generations; while we'll only have further disadvantage to look forward to unless we do something now to counter their lying and dawaganda).
Next to that, they <i>will</i> covertly keep continuing their terrorist/conversion activities, their communally-targetted spending (see Haindava Keralam on how christians only buy christian magazines and products from christian-owned stores), political lobbying and infiltrating, media-controlled Hindu-bashing, brainwashing via education, stealing orphans, diverting Hindu temple money to their christoterrorism.

Note how such 'christians against missionizing' petitions will only work on Hindu minds to convince Hindus that their stand has supporters in the christian ranks - meanwhile most of those are dissembling and will only do backstabbing.

X number of christians against proselytisation? So that's supposed to make us withdraw from reconverting former Hindus as well? Fat chance.
Hmmm, wait. The first part doesn't sound too bad for the few that mean it: they stop converting and we'll continue what we've now started - welcoming our own back to their eternal, real home of Hindu Dharma.

"christians against proselytisation" - yeah right.
No pretended, orchestrated attempts to keep us down and soft-talk us from retaliating is going to work. The knowledge that christoislamism is a huge scam built on a huge sham is going to spread to all Hindus so that not one of them will fall for it ever. When they try fooling Hindus to sell their worthless piece of junk after that, it's not going to work.

But sure, we'll give them a truce. Just as soon as we've won completely and permanently.
<!--QuoteBegin-Husky+Feb 13 2008, 05:35 PM-->QUOTE(Husky @ Feb 13 2008, 05:35 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Acharya's post 352 just above is <i>far</i> more important.

<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Feb 1 2008, 05:06 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(k.ram @ Feb 1 2008, 05:06 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>CHRISTIANS AGAINST PROSELYTISM</b>

Christians who support the declaration may ...[right][snapback]77913[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Oh, how sweet that is. Really. Quite touching. Sniff. Melodrama... Sniffles.

Christoterrorism starts a war, doesn't like it that we're fighting back and now wants to delay us by waving a false 'white flag of truce' (lull us into a false sense of security). Bully beating up kid, kid strikes back once, and bully cowed with shock and fear says: "we must not beat each other", all so it can get its fist clenched when it's ready to continue again.

But nah. Not going to happen. Christianism started the war, now it better bite the bullet.

You're absolutely right. Whenever Xs and Ms wave the flag, it simply means they perceive defeat and want a truce before they can regroup and start attacking Hindus again. These people view the whole thing as war, so any move by them should be seen as a tactical ploy. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo--> Unfortunately, most Hindus do not understand this. They're deceived again and again, thanks to their Gandhian mentality.
AP CM Reddy: "Come and get the free stuff. Indian converted christos brothers visist israel. All from the taxes that the bloody hindoo fundoos pay. Hahahaha!!"

(Acharya's post 352)
<!--QuoteBegin-acharya+Feb 13 2008, 12:01 AM-->QUOTE(acharya @ Feb 13 2008, 12:01 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Implementation stage is the last stage of the conversion agenda.
They have done most of the work secretly and made sure that the Indian media does not arouse any suspicion in the Hindu society.

[right][snapback]78422[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->They've also learnt from their previous christoterrorist activities elsewhere. They've made things so complicated that it is far more difficult for people to show that christianism was to blame than it was even in S Korea in the last decades. That is, they've ensured that many anti-Hindu events are very indirect ('it was the secular media that said that; it was the communists that did that; the DMK is to blame for that') and no one can link it back easily to christoterroism's own doorsteps. It's so they can say they didn't kill Hinduism when - as they imagine - it finally dies (so that converted Hindus don't realise how terribly they've been cheated).
<b>Public outraged over temple demolition</b>

V GANGADHARAN | Wed, 13 Feb, 2008 , 03:17 PM
Amidst uproarious scenes and strong opposition from local residents, <b>officials of the Chennai Corporation assisted by a strong posse of policemen on Wednesday demolished a temple in north Chennai</b> that had been reportedly obstructing free flow of traffic.

Scores of protesting residents were arrested and others squatting on the street were forcibly evicted from the spot.

Assistant Commissioner of Police, (Royapuram) Madasamy, told News Today that 15 men and 24 women have been arrested.

It’s in fact a big fight for a small temple. As early as 7 am on Wednesday agitated residents of Munusami Chetty Garden, (MC Garden) in Royapuram took to the streets today asking the Chennai Corporation to give up imminent plan to demolish a tiny Pillayar Temple in their street.

People converged before the temple, sat on the street and shouted slogans.

MS Dhandapani, a resident of MC Garden, and convenor of Friends Forum which organised the road roko told News Today that the temple is situated on MC Garden 4th lane for the past more than three decades.

<b>‘While 500 families want this temple for worship, one family is against it,’</b> he said and added that M Stephen, a resident has been behind all overt and covert efforts to remove the temple from this place.

While other residents endorsed his view, V Kumar and P Sundar, who are at the forefront of the fight alleged that a <b>court direction was obtained by Stephen after telling the court that the local residents themselves had wanted the removal of the temple. </b>

‘This man had also falsely claimed in the court that the small temple was obstructing traffic and free movement of people, which is not correct,’ they said.

Residents claimed that sometime back they had filed a civil suit and that the court had wanted the corporation authorities to act in the matter only after hearing the views of the residents.

However, the person asking removal of temple had concealed all relevant facts and had obtained a direction which is illegal, they said.

Womenfolk of the locality, who run a self-help group explained that their (MC Garden 4th lane) street is a dead-end and that residents alone use it.

The temple is situated here and no one residing here had complained against it.

Stephen is a resident of neighbouring Velayudha Pandian Street and he does not use this street.

Only he has been objecting to the Pillayar temple. ‘He is using unfair and unjust means to remove the temple,’ they said in a chorus and alleged that <b>Stephen has also been speaking in a derogatory manner about worship of Ganesa for a long time. </b>

Residents claimed that <b>Stephen is an employee of the Intelligence Bureau</b> and alleged that he has been <b>misusing his official position to exert pressure on corporation and police authorities to demolish the temple</b>.

Significantly, the local councillor (Ward 19), E Rajendran, (PMK) and other local office-bearers of all political parties including the DMK and the AIADMK had supported the people’s demand that the temple should not be demolished.

Concerning posts 158 to 174 where member SwamyG asked in his #158 the following:
<!--QuoteBegin-SwamyG+Oct 16 2007, 10:20 PM-->QUOTE(SwamyG @ Oct 16 2007, 10:20 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->[...]
So what is wrong if somebody preaches and offers material benefits and in exchange people convert to the religion? Thinking 1:1, preacher vs the to-be-converted (or just-converted family), the preacher preaches with an agenda to convert and in the process temporarily reduces the plight of the to-be-converted, what is wrong?
[right][snapback]74326[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->K.Ram's post 358 just above is an example that will illustrate why conversion of even one person to christoislamism becomes a threat to the continued existence of the traditions and of peace among the unconverted, free natural religionists. In some cases, converts are a threat to a free person's life (as in the case of the Orissa Swami).

In this case we can see how just one person possessed by christianism (=terrorism) is terrorising 500 others:
The christoterrorist stephen can't live and let live now that he has converted even though he has his own church (and more are always coming up) where he can pray to his biblical god freely. Oh No. He WILL insist on his right to exercise christo-intolerance - as specifically demanded of him in his bible -- towards other religions and towards others' Gods by preventing 500 Hindus from having access to their own Temple.

One christoterrorist will not rest against the biblical offence of Hindus worshipping 'other Gods', but will go out of his way to get a 'heathen' temple demolished in a street he doesn't even visit:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>‘While 500 families want this temple for worship, one family is against it,’ he said and added that M Stephen, a resident has been behind all overt and covert efforts to remove the temple from this place.</b>

While other residents endorsed his view, V Kumar and P Sundar, who are at the forefront of the fight alleged that a court direction was obtained by Stephen after telling the court that the local residents themselves had wanted the removal of the temple.
Womenfolk of the locality, who run a self-help group explained that their (MC Garden 4th lane) <b>street is a dead-end and that residents alone use it.</b>

The temple is situated here and no one residing here had complained against it.

<b>Stephen is a resident of neighbouring Velayudha Pandian Street and he does not use this street. </b>

<b>Only he has been objecting to the Pillayar temple.</b> ‘He is using unfair and unjust means to remove the temple,’ they said in a chorus and alleged that <b>Stephen has also been speaking in a derogatory manner about worship of Ganesa for a long time.</b>

Residents claimed that <b>Stephen is an employee of the Intelligence Bureau</b> and alleged that he has been <b>misusing his official position to exert pressure on corporation and police authorities to demolish the temple.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&Sad--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
According to the following, Japan - where christians have long been no more than (officially) 1% of the country's population - now has 6% christians. Youth are 7%.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Christianity on upswing in Japan
Gallup poll: Traditional religions show decline among teens</b>

March 18, 2006
Assist News Service

LOS ANGELES, Calif. ? A poll conducted by the Gallup Organization has yielded some surprising statistics on Japanese attitudes toward religion, morality and spirituality.
<b>According to a media advisory obtained by ANS, among the findings from one of the most extensive surveys of the country ever taken was a Christian population of 6 percent, a number much higher than reported in previous surveys. </b>

Researchers were also surprised by high numbers of teens who claimed the Christian faith, while the traditionally dominant religions, Buddhism and Shintoism, though still claimed by many adults, suffered declines among teenagers. Some respondents answered that they belonged to more than one religion.

Of the 30 percent of adults surveyed who claimed to have a religion, 75 percent considered themselves Buddhists, 19 percent Shintoists, while 12 percent considered themselves to be Christians.

Researchers were especially surprised at the large number of Japanese youth who claimed the Christian faith. Of the 20 percent who professed to have a religion, 60 percent called themselves Buddhists, 36 percent Christians and followers of the traditionally dominant Japanese religion, Shinto.
(Methinks the Shintoists that consider themselves 'also christian' are duped. I suspect they are thinking like the majority of Hindus who insist that jehovallah is also a form of our God and that, seen in that light, they are also muslims and christians.
Such people are sadly easily converted. I wish Japan would beware. Else soon all their Shinto and Buddhist temples will be targeted by christos as in Korea, or up in flames again as happened historically. It seems that Japanese used to called christians "arsonists" for this: arsonist, a 'euphemism' for christians based on their usual behaviour.)

<b>Calling the numbers "stunning," George Gallup Jr. who assisted with the poll, noted of teenagers: "These projections mean that seven percent of the total teenage population say they are Christians." </b>

The poll was conducted in association with American Trademark Research and MJM Group in 2001 for use in a documentary that is expected to be released later this year.

<b>"According to the social scientists in Japan, this was the single largest study ever attempted," said Bill McKay, one of the documentary's producers and project research director. "The entire study examined preteens, teens, young adults, adults and seniors."</b>

<b>"In my 50 years of polling, there has been no study that I would consider as important as this one, because it provides insight into a fascinating culture," added Gallup. </b>

"When they saw the design of the questionnaire, Japanese experts argued that the Japanese would never answer the socially delicate and/or the highly personal questions," observed McKay. "However, it was our professional hunch that the Japanese were ready to talk and when they did they told us more than we had asked for. <b>The data is the most revealing look behind the face of Japan and shatters many WWII myths of the Japanese culture."</b>

The poll also delved into popular attitudes toward a variety of subjects related to morality, spirituality and general views about life

"Most Japanese, judging by their responses to scales on happiness, are neither 'very happy,' nor 'very unhappy,' noted Gallup. "There is a degree of fatalism in their somber mood. Teen's perspectives on life tend to a sense of nihilism to an alarming degree. A note of hopelessness is found in the responses to a number of questions. And there is little evidence of eternal hope, although a considerable number do believe in some form of life after life."

On matters of morality, Gallup noted a strong relativistic streak: "Like much of the rest of the world, the Japanese tend to take relativistic views on ethical matters. There is little belief in 'absolutes,' and this is true across the all-generational groups. In the 'hierarchy of crimes,' those related to economic and family matters far outweigh those related to sexual activity."

Researchers were also surprised by teen attitudes which reflected an especially pessimistic outlook on life. While 22 percent of U.S. teens in previous Gallup surveys often wondered why they existed, the number for Japanese teens was 85 percent. Similarly, while 76 percent of U.S. teens always see a reason for their being on Earth, only 13 percent of Japanese teens agreed with the statement. A surprisingly high 11 percent of Japanese teens wished they had never been born, a figure that comes in at 3 percent for U.S. teens.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->The final paragraphs also try to paint the picture that the Japanese are troubled by 'fatalism' and are 'searching for meaning' - no doubt, terrorists (missionaries and converts) think that christoterrorism is the solution.
Meanwhile, they don't give any evidence that people in Japan before its fast-modernisation and slide out of Shintoism suffered from any 'depression'. In fact, historically, Japanese seemed quite determined and had a strong sense of community. Therefore, who is to say what the cause (and cure) of such feelings are.

Here you go, found it. They called christians 'Kyushu' (arsonist) - just like the Old French called christians 'cretins' and the Old Germanic people called them 'bigot'. We can't call those victims of christianism 'communalists' for finding such properly descriptive terms based on their terrible experiences at the hands of christos - who even today behave the same as ever thanks solely to the bible and the nasty ideas therein.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In Japanese, Kyushu means both arsonist and a Christian. Its origins lie in the fact that, besides employing other means of persecution, Nihonjin Christians would burn down Buddhist temples and Shinto shrines in order to convert the Kyushu population.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/tribes.html
'Christianizing of the Heathen – on the point of a sword'
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Resistance is Futile?
Etymological clues exist of a forlorn pagan resistance to 'conversion' –

BIGOT, meaning an obstinate and intolerant holder of particular religious opinions, arrived in English via French. It originated centuries before among Germanic/Frankish tribes of Gaul. 'Bei Gott' ('By God') mocked the exclamation frequently used by the crusading Christian missionaries who were bludgeoning the tribes into conversion.

CRETIN, a stunted or intellectually subnormal person, came into English in the 18th century from Franco-Provençal 'creitin' or 'crestin', again both ancient in origin, derived from the Old French 'chretien' and the Lombard, 'cristanei' – meaning "Christian" !<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Meanwhile, the Greeks used different words to describe the faithful:
http://www.bandoli.no/tolerance.htm via http://freetruth.50webs.org/A1.htm)
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->With pious enthusiasm the ancient pagan temples, works of art and libraries were destroyed, and trampled by rampant Christians in a frenzied religious demolition craze. Under the command of bishops and abbots Christian monks were often the most active. <b>The Greek called them "swinish black-cloths", because "they looked like men but lived like pigs".</b>
A contemporary writer tells us
"armed with clubs or stones and swords they ran to the temples, some without these weapons only with their bare hands and feet"
-- (Libanios "Pro temples" 389 AD).
As soon as they had destroyed one temple, they dashed away to the next. They toppled over walls, smashed idols, statues and art-objects and altars, and stole the temples wealth for themselves.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->They're still busy destroying others' temples. Not surprising, but everyone seems to have had the same experience at the hands of christianism.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->At the cost of Hindus
Sandhya Jain (Pioneer)

<b>Secularism has evolved into an odious fast-track for the disproportionate ascent of religious minorities in the top echelons of Indian polity, and their hijack of the state and its resources to pander to sectarian fundamentalism. </b>Ever since Rajiv Gandhi's craven surrender in the Shah Bano case, there has been an insidious chipping away at the nation's secular edifice in a manner tailored to crystallise and partition minority identities. This is a departure from the original constitutional tolerance of religion-based personal laws in personal spaces that did not affect larger social interests and the desired separation of state and religion.

Now, the Sonia Gandhi-dominated Centre and Congress State Governments are doggedly pandering to minority sentiments in a manner calculated to affront majority opinion. Andhra Pradesh Chief Minister Samuel Rajsekhar Reddy, a member of the evangelical Seventh Day Adventists sect, recently used the Governor's address to slip in a scheme to subsidise Christian pilgrims to Bethlehem and Jerusalem. The statement that the Andhra Government will "extend the Haj pilgrim scheme to Christian minorities also for their religious visits to Christian holy lands in Israel" is laughable as Israeli annexation has not been internationally recognised.

<b>Moreover, the suggestion that Haj subsidy is being extended to Christians suggests Christianity is a sub-sect of Islam, though it is an older and distinct faith. A religious subsidy for Christians can only involve a fresh outlay exclusive to Christians; it is not cut out of the exclusively-Muslim subsidy.</b> This raises questions about the perversion of Indian secularism, which was premised upon distance from religion, and the legitimacy of state funding pilgrimages for any faith.

Justifiable state intervention in the internal affairs of a religious community must derive from notions of higher justice and contemporary social needs for the good of a larger citizenry. The Shah Bano divorce and Imrana rape case show that the Indian state is incapable of standing up for poor and wronged Muslim women. Instead, it promotes obscurantist orthodoxy by extending the quantum of Haj subsidy which, ironically, is haraam according to the tenets of Islam.

In every religion, pilgrimage is a matter of personal devotion and not the duty of the state, not even a theological state. Islam enjoins the faithful to try to make the pilgrimage to Mecca once in a lifetime from their legitimately earned savings. There is no compulsion for those who cannot afford it. The Prophet did not even imagine a non-Muslim state would steal the resources of its Hindu citizens to subsidise Haj - against the letter and spirit of his teachings.

It bears stating that the misguided attempt to placate Hindu opinion with a Kailash Mansarovar subsidy by some States is an affront to dharma. Nowhere in Hindu tradition is the state supposed to subsidise a pilgrimage, though it is duty-bound to provide civic amenities en route. Many facilities are provided by the pious and the authorities of pilgrimage centres.

The Mecca-Jerusalem subsidies are political, not religious, subsidies. <b>Both Islam and Christianity are political religions with an agenda for world-conversion and world-dominion. </b>Hindus suffer double injustice as rich Muslim and Christian nations promote conversions, while secular India funds pilgrimage to Muslim and Christian lands outside India. <b>India's politico-religious subsidies thus reinforce both fundamentalisms at the cost of the native Hindu civilisational ethos. </b>

<b>Residents of small towns have already experienced to their dismay that Muslim neighbours return from Haj with a disconcerting degree of fundamentalism. </b>Indian villages are already experiencing a forced cultural separatism practiced by converts to Christianity at the behest of local padris, and tensions can only rise with Indian Christians visiting the holy lands.

<b>It is pertinent that despite massive funding for conversion, the social and economic status of converts remains unchanged, though a sense of grievance and separated-ness is fostered through intensive religious indoctrination. </b>The lack of social and economic mobility for converts, indeed the perpetuation of old caste inequalities with the tacit consent of the religious hierarchy, has recently come to be admitted by both faiths, though ironically, as an additional grievance against the Hindu community!

As the UPA chairperson was keen to snatch the rights of depressed Hindu castes and pass them on to Muslim and Christian converts, the National Commission for Religious and Linguistic Minorities was created with a pre-set mandate. Last year, it delivered according to its brief and recommended extension of Scheduled Caste reservation benefits to Christian and Muslim converts. Justice Ranganath Mishra even suggested a quota-within-quota for OBC minorities.

Justice Mishra proposed 15 per cent representation for minorities in educational institutions and all cadre and grades of Government employment, of which 10 per cent would be for Muslims and five per cent for others (read Christians). Claiming that minorities are under-represented in Government, he argued that they should be regarded as 'backward' according to Article 16(4), but without the qualifying distinction of "socially and educationally backward".

<b>This is deliberate mischief as Justice Mishra knows that minorities are not educationally and socially backward.</b> Besides, this is constitutionally untenable as it tampers with the basic framework of the Constitution. Para 3 of the Constitution (Scheduled Castes) Order 1950 limits SC status to Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists, as caste is a Hindu phenomenon and cannot be delinked from religion. To do so is to facilitate conversions.

The NCRLM mooted earmarking 15 per cent Central development funds for minorities, an idea being pursued by the Planning Commission. Actually, as Islam and Christianity promote conversion with the promise of non-discrimination between believers, both deserve punitive legal action for discriminating against 'low caste' converts.

What stands between India and the deluge is the sagacity of Mr Buta Singh, chairman, National Commission for Scheduled Castes.<b> Mr Singh has cautioned State Governments against using the word 'Dalit' in official documents as it is "unconstitutional" and only 'Scheduled Caste' is notified under Article 341. The de-legitimising of 'Dalit' (meaning broken, crushed) is a blow to the evangelical industry which has been promoting the term to forge separatism among Scheduled Castes</b>. Mr Singh rightly insists that Dalit converts do not suffer the same maladies as their Indic counterparts; hence, Christianity and Islam must prove they practice untouchability and that it exists in their religious theology, before claiming ameliorative measures. This is a timely warning against wilful appropriation of Hindu concepts. It is now up to Hindu India to resist minority aggression.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

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