Progress Of Indic Languages Vs English

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Husky+Sep 14 2007, 09:42 PM-->QUOTE(Husky @ Sep 14 2007, 09:42 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Aug 19 2007, 05:14 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Aug 19 2007, 05:14 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Any of the Telugu forumites here know the meanings of these old Telugu names (from Palnati Yuddham):
5) Peramma (amma is mother, i have heard Peraasa meaning greed, but here Per seems to mean something else)
[right][snapback]72224[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Since Tamil words Puli = tiger and Singham = lion, and the same appears to be true for Telegu, will tell you what I guess Peramma might <i>possibly</i> mean. Of course, I am not sure and I could just be totally wrong.
Periamma in Tamil literally means great mother - shortened to Perimma it means older sister of your mum. (Different word used for older sister of your dad.)
[right][snapback]73172[/snapback][/right]
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You're right about great mother - perhaps refers to Shakti
Peramma = Peddamma,
Peraiah = Peddaiah

Peraasa = Pera - aasa (big desire = excessive desire = greed)

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-ramana+Sep 15 2007, 04:27 AM-->QUOTE(ramana @ Sep 15 2007, 04:27 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->It 'nomu' in Telugu. Means 'vratham' or 'vrat' or pooja.
[right][snapback]73166[/snapback][/right]
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Tamil muslims tend use the word "nonbu' (nombu) as fasting. Tamil muslims have a greater adoption of Tamil language. How is the adoption of Telugu among muslims in Andhra? Do they use the word "nomu" in their language?

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-SwamyG+Sep 16 2007, 09:51 PM-->QUOTE(SwamyG @ Sep 16 2007, 09:51 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Tamil muslims tend use the word "nonbu' (nombu) as fasting. Tamil muslims have a greater adoption of Tamil language. How is the adoption of Telugu among muslims in Andhra? Do they use the word "nomu" in their language?
[right][snapback]73229[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Their greater adoption of Tamil is only because it helps them in the environment of TN politics. If they are perceived as being anti-Tamil (by peddling Urdu), then it won't suit their agenda at all...(Islamification of Tamil Nadu). So these groups (Christians/Muslims) have to adopt Tamil and play the role of being great Tamil lovers, they have no other choice if they want to achieve their goals.

I'm sure none of these AP Muslims can speak Telugu as well as the native. Just look at the names of their districts, (Mehboobnagar, Nizambad, Hyderabad, Adilabad) all reflect their efforts to eradicate Telugu and push Urdu.

[Bharatvarsh]

Most AP Muslims are in Hyd, many of them cannot speak Telugu or even if they do you can tell them apart from the way they talk, the Muslims in Rayalaseema or Coastal Andhra (very few) are the ones that may speak good Telugu and finally no Muslim I knew ever used nomu (they spoke Telugu with me but with an accent) and I knew quite a few in my younger days.

Under the Nizam, Telugu, Marathi and Kannada were supressed as Hindu languages and Urdu imposed, this is why you see many more Farsi/Arabic words in Telangana dialect of Telugu than the other two major ones (coastal andhra and rayalaseema).

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Pandyan+Sep 16 2007, 10:26 PM-->QUOTE(Pandyan @ Sep 16 2007, 10:26 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-SwamyG+Sep 16 2007, 09:51 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SwamyG @ Sep 16 2007, 09:51 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Tamil muslims tend use the word "nonbu' (nombu) as fasting. Tamil muslims have a greater adoption of Tamil language. How is the adoption of Telugu among muslims in Andhra? Do they use the word "nomu" in their language?
[right][snapback]73229[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Their greater adoption of Tamil is only because it helps them in the environment of TN politics. If they are perceived as being anti-Tamil (by peddling Urdu), then it won't suit their agenda at all...(Islamification of Tamil Nadu). So these groups (Christians/Muslims) have to adopt Tamil and play the role of being great Tamil lovers, they have no other choice if they want to achieve their goals.
[right][snapback]73231[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Reminds me. When I was in Chennai last, two of the stores my sis and I stopped by at were muslim-owned and operated where some of the personnel could not speak in Tamil. (Did not notice this in the other islamic-owned stores we happened to wander into.) In fact, in one of these two shops, <i>only</i> the store manager could speak Tamil <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo--> I could not recognise the language the others were speaking to each other in or tried to reply to our questions in. It sounded very alien, not any S Indian languages, not Hindi, not anything I'd come across ever.
One of those religious dudes with their caps on and unversed in Tamil was glaring at us angrily all the short time we were there. Poor islami, us kaffirs must have hurt his eyes, but he needn't have worried, we didn't buy a thing <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> If they just move to W TSP or E TSP, they wouldn't have to stomach the sight of kaffirs, now would they - <i>and</i> they won't have to bother dealing with the kaffir-tongue of Tamil either.

I hope these guys aren't undercover terrorists: shop personnel unable to speak Tamil during the day and terrorism-plotter by night <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->‘My Grandsons speak Gujarati like foreigners’(Gujarati Mp3)

Ahmedabad, DeshGujarat

Achala education trust organized a wonderful seminar on the subject: ‘whether our children should go to English medium school or a Gujarati?’
Different speakers talked about their concern about dying Gujarati medium schools in Gujarat with great worry. Here is presented Dr. Urmilaben Patel’s (widow of late Chimanbhai Patel- chief minister of Gujarat) speech. Urmilaben is grandmother of English medium goer grandsons. She in his speech says “My grandsons can not speak four sentences in Gujarati and they speak Gujarati like foreigners.”

http://deshgujarat.com/2007/05/01/my-grand...rsgujarati-mp3/<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Bharatvarsh]

I now get Aaj Tak (courtesy of mom & sis installin some Telugu trash channel) & a bunch of others, the news are much worse than I thought, they keep using some of these hard Urdu words I have never heard before (not even in Bollywood!!!), one I think was muqammal or muqammad I am not sure which, anyway I checked for muqammal in dictionary & it says:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->A mukammal (pass. part. of 'to complete,' &c., ii of 'to be complete,' &c.), part. adj. Completed, perfected, made up; fitted with every requisite; finished; performed, accomplished;--complete, perfect, consummate, most

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologi...ct&display=utf8<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From what I know "samapt" is easily understood by Hindi speakers for "complete/finish".

Maybe they think they have an audience in Pakistan.

My friend tells me that "Star News" is the worst (I don't get the channel).

[Guest]

welcome to the "Hindi" TV Jouralism. All the channels are in race of who can bastardize Hindi faster and better.

There is one more trend. They will use islamic terms wherever possible, rather than dharmic. Simplest example, instead of saying Bhagwan or Iswar for God, they say Khuda/Allah, or simply 'Upar Wala'. Mehr/Nazr/rahm rather than kripa/daya. The other day they were interviewing Yograj Singh, father of Yuvraj Singh. Yograj Singh kept saying 'Khuda ki mehrbani', 'Allah ki rehmat', and so on.

And by the way, you are right, it is for Pakistan's viewership I beleive. Idiots dont know, that if they have better Hindi, their viewership in South and East will grow much more, than it ever will in TSP. So it is for TSP. In fact in many programs you see contestants from TSP participating. And even being the favourites! And those folks come out as full islami. they never say namaste etc. they stick to salam-walai-kum or good evening. In fact our folks also greet with salam rather than namaste! There is an ad that a nationalized bank is nunning for the celebration of its 100 years in operation, so 'Sau Sau Salaam' is its title which can be seen every where. Why not 'shat shat naman'?

I have now stopped watching any of these channels. Except for door-darshan, when I have absolutely to. It still has a better standards of Hindi. they were telecasting an interview of Captain Rakesh Sharma, the other day. Such a good interview I have not heard/seen in many years now. Not just very good Hindi on both sides, but even the quality of questions and responses, and above all the sincerety was there. I wish there were more people like them these days.

[Guest]

Is there some kind of cheat sheet that would help me look at a word and say it is Hindi or Urdu word? I understand it is complicated, as Urdu has lots of words from Hindi, apart from Persian and Arabic. So what I mean is look at a word and say it came from Persian and Arabic rather than from native languages or Sanskrit?

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Yograj Singh kept saying 'Khuda ki mehrbani', 'Allah ki rehmat', and so on.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bodhiji, I think Yograj Singh's wife is Muslim (some Shabnam or Shanaaz).

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Is there some kind of cheat sheet that would help me look at a word and say it is Hindi or Urdu word?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I remember my 8th grade hindi homework. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Is there some kind of cheat sheet that would help me look at a word and say it is Hindi or Urdu word? I understand it is complicated, as Urdu has lots of words from Hindi, apart from Persian and Arabic. So what I mean is look at a word and say it came from Persian and Arabic rather than from native languages or Sanskrit? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In general, words that have "z" or "q" or "f" are foreign, examples include:

zameen = dharti, bhoomi, prithvi
zindagi = jeevan
takleef = samasya
qilaaf = viruddh/biruddh

Apart from this if you notice a word is prevalent in many Indian languages but does not sound native, then you can be pretty sure its foreign, example:

thaiyyaar in Hindi - thayaru in Telugu - thayar in Tamil (all for ready).

thaiyyaar = sannaddh, siddha

But more than all these tips, I can go by intuition & 90% of the time I can tell if a word is foreign no matter how established the word has become in a language, to me Persian/Arabic words have a certain quality to them that just sets them apart, examples include:

sawal = prashna, prasan (depending upon if its Hindi or Punjabi)
jawab = uttar
gussa = krodh
insaan = manus/manukh in Punjabi
janwar = janthu, pasu, mriga

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Bodhiji, I think Yograj Singh's wife is Muslim (some Shabnam or Shanaaz).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yuvraj Singh is actually a Sikh; his father Yograj Singh is a Sikh while his mother Shabnum Singh is Hindu. RamanVirk 15:24, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->As a husband... My marriage to Yuvraj's mother Shabnam was a mistake. We are from completely different backgrounds; I am a farmer whereas she is from a business family. Her education gave her a lot of exposure. She wanted to go out and be independent.

Unfortunately I am an oldfashioned man who thinks that a women's place is at home. Add to that the emotional turmoil and frustration I was going through and my relationship with her kept going downhill. I also started drinking. We reached a point where we just couldn't understand each other. But I have to give her credit that she did a lot for my family. Maybe if she had been a little more tenacious with me, things could have worked out.
link
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->You know," she adds suddenly, "it is really difficult for a woman to be alone or thought of as alone in our society. People see her as weak and vulnerable and try and take advantage of that vulnerability. She becomes a target. Yuvi really took care of me while growing up, he gave me tremendous respect that I didn't get elsewhere. And these past few years, since he began playing and achieved success, I've got that respect from the world too, as his mother. It means a lot to me. <b>Also, what kept us going was the guidance of our gurujis Baba Ram Singhji and Baba Ajit Singhji</b>." link  <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

Thank you folks for the tips.

[Guest]

#228:
<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Oct 1 2007, 07:09 PM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Oct 1 2007, 07:09 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->welcome to the "Hindi" TV Jouralism.  All the channels are in race of who can bastardize Hindi faster and better.
[...]
they say Khuda[right][snapback]73768[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Well, for what it's worth: Khuda is a heathenish Iranian word. As in, not islamic. I read this on an Iranian site where they were having fun at TSP's expense, posting from a Pakistani forum where the Pakistanis had "just discovered" that 'Khuda Hafiz' should no longer be said but 'allah hafiz' should be used instead, because Khuda was a kaffiri Zoroastrian word.
The Iranians commenting on the Pk messages were writing how many Pakistani names and words used were non-islamic Iranian and how Pks didn't even know it.
The Iranians said that Khuda had originally been used for their God(s). From what I understand, it is exactly like the term Bhagavan, but the Iranian variant.

The knowledge has spread! Straightforward googling for an example gave me this: islamists at some (Indian?) forum called 'gupshup' or something, falling over themselves on 'Why allah not Khuda', and the like. And here's the relevant bit:
http://www.gupshup.org/gs/archive/index....68595.html
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Its better to say Allah Hafiz, as it symbolizes that its said by a Muslim to a Muslim. Khuda Hafiz is also used by Zoronists in Iran, refering to their false God.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Christoislamis never can mention some other God without appending 'false' to them. However, I note with approval the capital G in 'false God' that that person has put in there. It's a start.

Actually, I read on the Iranian forum mentioned at top of this post that Khuda is something the Zoroastrianists used and the islamists took over (similar to how christians took over a variety of pagan terms for God to refer to jeebus instead).

And more from same location:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Hafiz = a persian word anyway. "Allah Hafiz" is never said by arabs.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Hey look: some people are finally catching up and even show a bit of knowledge (signs that the clouds are clearing slowly?) Even while some argue at the above link for 'Allah' to be used a.o.t. the Arabic 'Ilah' related to Hebrew word for 'God' (though in fact allah means just *The* God in Arabic - even <i>I</i> know that Arabic 'Al' means 'the' - and allah has continued to be used by christians ever since times before islam, and was used by Arabians since before christianity for one of their main Gods), this guy set them straight:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Al-Ilah is precisely what "Allah" was derived from.

Its not correct. Allah is Isme-Zaat = personal name of the God. Ilah (in Arabic) or Ilahi (in Hebrew) is God (not the name of the God).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->So their God is called Isme-Zaat. Anyone here know Arabic? Or does Isme-Zaat mean "Ishmael's personal deity" <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> Just guessing, of course.

Just a question, every Arabic-knowing person admits that Allah means The God - so does the placename Ramallah (in Iraq I think it was) mean 'Rama the God'? Can't blame me for wondering <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->


Anyway, that's the situation on 'Khuda'.
Not that Hindi-speakers need to be using Iranian/Zoroastrian words at random here and there when Hindi obviously has its own equivalents. Just saying that at least there's <i>some</i> comfort knowing that that particular word has nothing to do with islamoterrorism and is in fact a source of more kaffiri-goodness!

Maybe one day Indian and Pakistani muslims will also realise that ShahRukh, Khan, Jehangir and Shah are all ultra kaffiri names and stop embarassing themselves by naming their kids after those.
They ought to stick to Suleiman/Salman and Muhammed/Ahmed or whatever. (Although both were originally pagan Arabian names, with the former being the well-known equivalent of the Hebrew name Solomon.... but never mind.)

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Mehr<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->That's a Parsee name, isn't it? If so, the word must be non-islamic Iranian too? (There was a lady by the name of Mehr Jessia or something and she was a Parsee I think. Or maybe I've confused the spelling?)


#232 - Bharatvarsha:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->thaiyyaar in Hindi - thayaru in Telugu - thayar in Tamil (all for ready).
thaiyyaar = sannaddh, siddha<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Thayaar is used often in Thamizh, I never thought it sounded alien. Is that Urdu? Do they have 'th' sound in Arabic (I don't know, that's why I'm asking)? Even if not, it could still be Urdu from its Persian vocabulary, I suppose. Where did you find out that it's not indigenous, Bharata?

[Guest]

When googling on the matter of the Zoroastrians' Khuda, I was led to yet another forum discussing allah hafiz and Khuda hafiz where there was this very intriguing <b>statement by some Iranian</b> 'Aljish' (muslim I think):
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=440071
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Re: Persian: Khuda hafiz or allah hafiz
<b>We never use allâh neither in spoken nor in written Persian.</b> We have xodâ for it as well as xodâvand and some other synonyms usually used in poetry e.g. parvardegâr, kerdegâr, âfarinande, âfaridegâr

So we only say xodâ-hâfez and also xodâ-negahdâr.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->So Iranians don't use 'allah' at all? (And I don't think they've been using islamic allah's personal name of 'isme-zaat' either...) The heathens! Using only Khuda/Xoda! <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> While Iranians stick to their language, Indian and Pakistan muslims keep using alien (yet often still non-islamic) words. How ironic.

Here's something else that's interesting:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->- An Indian ('Panjabigator') asks: So in Iran, you wouldn't say <b>"insha Allah?"</b>
- An <b>Afghan muslim</b> ('Bienvenudos') answers: Hmm...I'm not sure what you mean by "insha." <b>Maybe this phrase doesn't exist in Afghanistan</b>...?
- Then the same Afghan says: Ohokay išâ, hmm I haven't heard that phrase so it must be strict to Iran. Although I thought Alijsh said, "Allâh" is never used in conversation.
- Then the Iranian answers: They are two different cases. Yes we say išâllâ or its Persian translation age Xodâ bexâd (agar Xodâ bexâhad: If God wants)
- Says an Indian (muslim?):  You would only really use "inshallah" if you're Muslim or if you're an Arab.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->So, although Iranians have some kind of 'inshallah', the Afghans don't have it? Very curious.

And here's something else that's interesting:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Amaan is the plural Amen (Safety).And Hafiz means also Safety.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->So 'Amen' just means safety? All this time and I never knew...

[Guest]

Husky 235

isme-zaat

in islam, they say there are two aspects of 'God' which they call - zaatee (original,as-is, nirguNa) and sifaatee (perceptive\qualitative - guNAtmaka\ identifier through attributes). so they say 'Allah' is the zaati identity (for muslims the 'only' zaati identity), and other names like Rahim, Karim etc are sifaati names. sufis also use 'Hu' as symbolic\zaati name.

[Shambhu]

<!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Husky was wondering above what Ramallah meant..I don't know arabic, but to add to the wondering:

what is Ramadaan?

Daan ("charity") done in the name of Rama? A yagnya perhaps? Not eating et al.

<!--emo&:thumbdown--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif' /><!--endemo--> BTW Latest National Geographic has a full page pic of 3 muslims slitting the throat of a cow on the street in Dhaka. Bemused onlookers look on. "Halaling" is their perverted version of yagya now, I think. They should all be killed.

[Bharatvarsh]

Does anyone have a clue about origins of these two words:

1) Padikkire for study in Tamil, this is similar to Hindi Pado, Telugu Badi for school seems related, what I want to know is the origin of this word, Telugu dictionary says Padi is cognate with something in Sanskrit, but I thought cognates happen only in related languages.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->badi (p. 0869) [ baḍi ] or bari badi. [Drav. &root; padu = to read. Cf. Tam. padi. Skt. pathincu is cognate with it.] n. A school. pathasala, pallekutamu.

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/romadict....ple&table=brown<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another is Tamil "Idhayam" for heart, is this related to Sanskrit "Hridaya".

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Oct 11 2007, 10:13 PM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Oct 11 2007, 10:13 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Padi is cognate with something in Sanskrit, but I thought cognates happen only in related languages.[right][snapback]74212[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->We do use padikkire often ('padikkardu' - to study, to read, not sure of how to spell in Roman characters). But I didn't know it was related to Samskritam. At least, I never really thought about it before.

However, I can think of two possible explanations - there may be more:
(1) these being termed "cognates" might have something to do with how Indian languages are closely related by being "Bharatiya Languages" as Dr Kalyanaraman has been explaining on his site(s); or
(2) the fact that - in spite of the evil christian bishop Caldwell doing his best to throw out all the Samskritam words in order to force-fit Thamizh into his invention of 'Dravidian' language - Thamizh still has a number of Samskritam words. Or the converse: it may be a Thamizh/Telugu/... word loaned into Samskritam.

But if they say it is a cognate, it looks like it might be (1). (Indologists will only ever allow for (2) of course, so they may confiscate your Telugu dictionary/dub the issuer a Hindutvadi or something.)