Progress Of Indic Languages Vs English

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Pandyan+Jun 22 2007, 12:51 PM-->QUOTE(Pandyan @ Jun 22 2007, 12:51 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-SwamyG+Jun 22 2007, 09:11 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SwamyG @ Jun 22 2007, 09:11 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Did we get influenced by the British, or did we influence the British?
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These could be recent concoctions. I always thought that Indians adopted and translated English swear words for their own use. It just doesn't seem "native" to me. But it could just be me.
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In Telugu, "Lanja Kodaka" (prostitute's son) was used in Vijaya Nagara times. When Tenali Rama Krishna (One of 8 Telugu poets of Krishna Devaraya) was asked by another person to compose a poem by giving a tough last line ** with the intention of embarrassing Rama Krishna in the Buvana Vijayam (Vijaya Nagara court). He spontaneously composes two poems - one beautiful poem to sing in front of Krishna Devaraya and the other one with foul words including "Lanja Kodaka" to snub the person that asked.


** I think the last line of the poem is "Kunjara Yudhamu Dhoma Kutthukan jhocha"
(Herd of elephants entered into Mosquito's trunk)

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In Telugu, "Lanja Kodaka" (prostitute's son) was used in Vijaya Nagara times. When Tenali Rama Krishna (One of 8 Telugu poets of Krishna Devaraya) was asked by another person to compose a poem by giving a tough last line ** with the intention of embarrassing Rama Krishna in the Buvana Vijayam (Vijaya Nagara court). He spontaneously composes two poems - one beautiful poem to sing in front of Krishna Devaraya and the other one with foul words including "Lanja Kodaka" to snub the person that asked.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is still used, besides that there are a number of other swear words that are used today, I think those all came about with no English influence (some came with Urdu influence) but Telugu has no words for mofo or sisfo as far as I know.

This is the poem:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->“Ganjayi Thravi Thurakala
Sanjathamu Goodi Kallu Chavi Gonnava?
Lanjala Kodaka! Yekkadara!
Kunjara Yudhambu Doma Kuthuka Jochen.”

http://tenaliramalinga.com/tenali-ramakr...vi-12.html<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Means:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->After drinking Ganjayi (Cannabis?),
Having sought the companionship of Muslims (Thurakala), are you drunk upon toddy?
Whores Son! Where are You!
Elephant's fleet is stuck in a mosquito’s throat<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

tijorI means treasury.

A friend who is a mArwADI, is of opinion that this word like many other business terminology traveled from India westwards. Some googling gave different answers.

treasury etymology
Middle English tresorie, from Old French, from tresor, treasure; see treasure.

and even so, tresorie is even closer to tijorI.

other source said this is originally portugese and traveled to India with them.

But then if it is foreign, how come we have a common Vaishya surname of 'Tijori'. However it does not seem of sanskrit origin?

Ideas?

[Guest]

Is the word "Bhago" used in Hindi ( to mean "run") from Persian?

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Is the word "Bhago" used in Hindi ( to mean "run") from Persian? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->H भागना bhāgnā [bhāg˚ = Prk. भग्गे(इ), or भग्ग(इ), fr. भग्ग=S. भग्न, p.p.p. of rt. भंज्], v.n. To run, to run off or away, fly, flee, take flight, escape, abscond, make oneself

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologi...ct&display=utf8<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Prk is Prakrit and S is Sanskrit.

usually farsi/arabic words are very easy to catch, they just sound well foreign no matter how established they have become, especillay words that have z, q and f (diff from pha of many indian languages) are sure to be foreign.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-SwamyG+Jun 29 2007, 01:04 AM-->QUOTE(SwamyG @ Jun 29 2007, 01:04 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Is the word "Bhago" used in Hindi ( to mean "run") from Persian?
[right][snapback]70617[/snapback][/right]
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Is not from the sanskrite bhaga?
in other IE language mean to introduce.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>जागरण प्रकाशन का शुद्ध लाभ 140 फीसदी बढ़ा</b>

नई दिल्ली, जाब्यू: विश्व के सर्वाधिक पढ़े जाने वाले समाचार पत्र दैनिक जागरण की प्रकाशक जागरण प्रकाशन लिमिटेड (जेपीएल) ने एक बार फिर शानदार वित्तीय नतीजों की घोषणा की है। कंपनी के शुद्ध मुनाफे में वित्त वर्ष 2006-07 के दौरान 140.45 फीसदी की वृद्धि दर्ज की गई है। इस दौरान कंपनी का शुद्ध लाभ 31.70 करोड़ रुपये से बढ़कर 76.22 करोड़ रुपये हो गया है। जागरण प्रकाशन कीकुल आय में भी 27.95 फीसदी की बढ़ोतरी दर्ज की गई है। इससे वित्त वर्ष 2006-07 के दौरान कंपनी की आय 486.88 करोड़ रुपये से बढ़कर 622.98 करोड़ रुपये पर पहुंच गई है।
  इस शानदार नतीजे के फलस्वरूप कंपनी की प्रति शेयर आय भी 6.23 रुपये के मुकाबले 12.65 रुपये पर पहुंच गई है। कंपनी के बोर्ड ने शुक्रवार को इसके वित्तीय नतीजों को मंजूरी दे दी। बीते वित्त वर्ष की आखिरी तिमाही के दौरान कंपनी का कुल राजस्व 29.71 फीसदी बढ़कर 170.25 करोड़ रुपये पर पहुंच गया, जबकि शुद्ध लाभ 42.53 प्रतिशत बढ़कर 18.09 करोड़ रुपये तक जा पहुंचा। इस अवधि में युवाओं पर केंद्रित दो नए ब्रांड आईनेक्स्ट और सिटी प्लस लांच किए गए। आईनेक्स्ट द्विभाषी दैनिक समाचार पत्र है। सिटी प्लस साप्ताहिक है जो मनोरंजन प्रधान है। इसके साथ ही कंपनी ने याहू इंडिया के साथ गठबंधन भी किया है।

http://epaper.jagran.com/main.aspx?edate=6...de=12&pageno=7#
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Jagran's financial results register 140% growth. Yahoo India ties up with Jagran. To capture more of English reading market - a clever move of lauching a dual-language paper - which prints all news in Hindi and English side by side.

Good usage of Hindi in above article.

revenue = rAjasva
income after taxation = shuddha lAbha
ebit = kula Aya
tie-up = gaTha bandhana
fiscal year = vitta varsha

but then they did use some unnecessary farsi/english too.

foreign ... Indic

feesadI (percent) = pratishata
share = pratibhUti
natIjA (result) = pariNAma
company = pratishThAna
manjUrI = anumati

[Bharatvarsh]

I got Chanakya DVD (vol 1) from library, good Hindi, could have been better though if they took more care. A few I remember were:

hajaar - sahasra
mouka - avakaash
andar - antar
thayyar - sannaddh (would be siddham in Telugu)
sirf - keval

I watched som Amitabh interview recently, I noticed the gulf between Bollywood "Hindi" and his Hindi quite clearly, he was using words like nirdhaarith, anand etc instead of faisla, khushi, you would never see those words in a million years in "Hindi" movies.

[Guest]

Amitabh is from UP and his father worked in Hindi section.
He never say Bollywood but Indian cinema or Hindi Cinema.
Urdu is/was used by poets, Punjabies or Muslims. Hindi cinema script writers are either Muslims or wanna be Muslims.

फीसदी बढ़ा
they should have said - Prtishat Vridhi
Jagran could have done better.

[Bharatvarsh]

I have a question, we don't have an exact word for "martyr (shaheed)", but the closest I could think of was:

shaheed (martyr) - hutatma

Now my question is, if you to say martyrdom, how do you say it with hutatma, with shaheed it becomes "shaheedi".

The word "shaheed" has a very specific Islamic connotation and should be avoided.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In Arabic, suicide bombings or martyrdom operations are called Shuada or Is-shtahad, both coming from the root Shaadi ("Testimony") that refers to the act of declaring one's belief in Islam. The suicide bombers are called "Shahids" and after their death attain the rank of a Martyr.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahid_(martyr)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->shaheed (martyr) - hutatma

Now my question is, if you to say martyrdom, how do you say it with hutatma, with shaheed it becomes "shaheedi".
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E - F - Indic
martyr - shaheed - hutAtmA
martyrdom (sacrifice?) - kurbAnI - balidAna

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->martyrdom (sacrifice?) - kurbAnI - balidAna <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ya balidanam is more close to "sacrifice", that's why i wanted to know if there is anyway to say martyrdom with "hutatma".

[Guest]

then derivative of hutAtmA - atmAhuti? by the way, Farsi/Urdu will be shahAdat.

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->then derivative of hutAtmA - atmAhuti? by the way, Farsi/Urdu will be shahAdat.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes could be it and shahadat seems more right, heard it before but didn't remember it.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Jun 29 2007, 01:17 AM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Jun 29 2007, 01:17 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Is the word "Bhago" used in Hindi ( to mean "run") from Persian? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->H भागना bhāgnā [bhāg˚ = Prk. भग्गे(इ), or भग्ग(इ), fr. भग्ग=S. भग्न, p.p.p. of rt. भंज्], v.n. To run, to run off or away, fly, flee, take flight, escape, abscond, make oneself

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologi...ct&display=utf8<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Prk is Prakrit and S is Sanskrit.

usually farsi/arabic words are very easy to catch, they just sound well foreign no matter how established they have become, especillay words that have z, q and f (diff from pha of many indian languages) are sure to be foreign.
[right][snapback]70618[/snapback][/right]
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I saw an Iranian movie, and thought I heard this word. I was amazed that I could detect many familiar sounds from Hindi. Hence my question.

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I saw an Iranian movie, and thought I heard this word. I was amazed that I could detect many familiar sounds from Hindi. Hence my question. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is due to the fact that Zend (which is kinda like the Sanskrit of Iran) is linked to modern day Persian and Hindi is linked to Sanskrit, but both Zend and Sanskrit are pretty close to each other, that's why you see those sounds.

A few examples include Panj for 5 which is Pancha in Sanskrit, Asman (for sky) which modern day Hindi prob got from Persian but it could also have got it from Sanskrit since it means the same in Sanskrit.

[Bharatvarsh]

http://sanskritdocuments.org/

Lot of other dictionaries in vernacular languages also if you click on "Dictionary"

[Bharatvarsh]

Can anyone tell me wht "surkia" means and it's origin, it seems to mean "headlines", here they use it at 52 secs, my friend tells me he also heard it in "Doordarshan" Hindi news.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uMUET3xHIdA

[Guest]

surkhian comes from surkh which in Farsi/Urdu means Red (or Bright).

surkhi means redness or highlight.

surkhian (plural) in context of news means flash or highlights. In news paper sense, it means bold headlines.

Doordarshan used world 'mukhya samachar', to my memory. ("ab tak ke mukhya samachar, ek baar phir").

Popularizing 'surkhian' is another contribution like 'taza khabar', of the so called Hindi channels like aajtak, sahara, zeetv and ibn-"hindi".

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Doordarshan used world 'mukhya samachar', to my memory. ("ab tak ke mukhya samachar, ek baar phir"). <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya but he said he heard it used once or twice, even Punjabi news often use "mukh samachar", in telugu they use "mukhyaamsaalu".