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Rama Setu -1
<!--QuoteBegin-Neelan+Apr 17 2007, 08:58 AM-->QUOTE(Neelan @ Apr 17 2007, 08:58 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->r namesake and his cohorts. HARD ROCK.

HARD ROCK is a "natural formation", not a "man-made formation". There is no mention in the Ramayana of the Sethu being fused into one solid 100-yojana-long, 20-yojana-wide (by the way, what is the official length of a Yojana in ancient engineering terms, pls?)
shaft of solid rock. <b>By what the Ramayana says, the Sethu was built by dumping everything that the army and locals could carry, into the sea. </b>
Q.E. D.

As I said above, this is what comes to all propagandists. Very sorry to see you reduced to this state.  Tragic.

<!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo-->

you propose and you dispose. you have got the answer, and i don't see what is the problem in accepting your own answer that Ramayan sevaks (army, elephants, monkeys) dropping huge bolder rocks into the ocean to just build the bridge.

btw, do you know what method Raja Raja Chola used to build gigantic temples in south India? how he move gimongous rocks to do the artworks, and built nothing yet seen by the westerners some 1500 years ago.. that no such science existed in any other parts of the world what they did in south of India. It was pure science and some intelligent work by his men and elephants.

http://www.ece.lsu.edu/kak/sayana.pdf :-
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->One Yojana is equal to 9 miles,
110 yards = 9 1/16 miles = 9.0625, ...and according to Mah¯abh¯arata,
Parva, 231, half a nimes
a equals 8/75 seconds. If calculated on this data the
velocity of light comes to 187,084.1 miles per second... Sir Monier Williams
gives one Yojana equal to 4 Krosha = 9 miles. Taking 1 Yojana = 9 miles,
the velocity comes to 186,413.22 miles per second. The well accepted popular
scientific figure is 186,300 miles per second.”<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

if one understands, they would project temples of south India as monuments that needs more investment to protect than Taj Mahal.

btw, don't discard nature.. its said we have been thru various cyclic ice age periods. at least two or more times oceans have flood into the lands. means, at one point the distance between sri lanka and India would have been what the myth says.


115K to 90K ago, there was global freeze., then warming happened., migration started.

74k years ago, mt. touba erupted causing 6 years of nuclear winter, and another 1000 years of ice age.

65k - 54k years ago, again global warming.

45k years ago mini ice age,

and again warming (40k to 22k years ago)..

glaziers melts after that.. 22k - 19k years ago last ice age melt.

and since then water has been rising.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->btw, do you know what method Raja Raja Chola used to build gigantic temples in south India? how he move gimongous rocks to do the artworks, and built nothing yet seen by the westerners some 1500 years ago.. that no such science existed in any other parts of the world what they did in south of India. It was pure science and some intelligent work by his men and elephants.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is a documentary in youtube on Raja Chola and temple construction with demonstration.
saik, welcome to the discussion. Also remember Yojana, Krosha, and other units of measuring distance have not been a universal constant. The meaning of these have varied from time to time and place to place.
bodhi, thank you. self, not a good writer (poster in terms of grammar, english, meaning,etc.) so, accept apologies in advance. some times things flow out of memory does not match correct to what others think and may want certain words to be.

back to topic:


its mr watson stuff.. wood stuffs would always be constructed on top of rock bedding. hence, the wooden tree branches etc would have been eroded long time.. eaten away by nature.

the partial exposure of ram setu, the "S" shaped bridge though it appears in pockets, as natural, but there is nothing that exists in nature within the short distance like India and Sri Lanka that would have a clear "S" shape, with no natural curves or ridges (other than that is washed away by nature).. just checking the satellite image or just viewing the google earth is good enough to bet on this.

another interesting point, is just see the google earth. follow all coastal regions of africa, India and other regions of the world. one could easily see the extended land zone now submerged under sea that would been existed as shore lines before ice age melt.

clearly puts ramayana happening somewhere either between 19k years ago to 13k years ago.[or before 74k thousand years ago depending on which cycle of ice age melt it is.. perhaps carbon dating could help from any artifact (like a large wooden piece stuck between rocks etc.. hope its not dredge away..also read about 5 meters of volcanic ash that is supposed to have if the age is 74k years old- more digging) obtained from setu excavations], since the ice age melt would onlee slowly rise over thousands of years in time. sope, another factor to consider for yojana calculations.
Can someone provide a summarized translation of this from tamizh?



<span style='color:red'>A very interesting verse, further down the chapters in Skanda Purana:

bhUyo bhUyo bhAvino bhUmipAlA natvA natvA yAchate rAmachandraH
sAmAnyoyaM dharmasetuR narANAM kAle kAle pAlanIyo bhaviddhiH
(Sk.Pu. Bramh. 3/40/34)

Sri Ramachandra is bowing down in humbly requesting all the future kings that would come, to kindly protect forever for the people, the dharma setu he has built.</span>

translation accurate?
<span style='color:red'>साहित्यिक एवँ पौराणिक आख्यानोँ मेँ श्रीरामसेतु</span> : श्रीयुत चन्द्र प्रकाश सिँह


a summary of this Tamizh news in English still requested: http://dinamani.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=DNH...Ls&Topic=0
<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Jun 22 2007, 12:18 AM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Jun 22 2007, 12:18 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='color:red'>साहित्यिक एवँ पौराणिक आख्यानोँ मेँ श्रीरामसेतु</span> : श्रीयुत चन्द्र प्रकाश सिँह


a summary of this Tamizh news in English still requested: http://dinamani.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=DNH...Ls&Topic=0

There is no news related to Rama setu on that page. I dont see archives on this website.
ok, thanks LSrini. They might have moved it as it was y'days news. Was something about Baalu's reaction to the Court's comments.
No jokes, but:
Toilet at CST: heritage sight!
Mumbai municipal corporation has to collect signatures and run from pillar to post (pardon pun) to get rid of a toilet in Mumbai's railway station.
Sense of proportionality anyone?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Save Shri Ram Setu </b>
Jamal Ansari makes a passionate case for preserving India's cultural heritage (Pioneer, 27 June 2007)
In 1860, Edi Tailor, a Britisher, was sailing between India and Ceylon but was forced to change his ship's course due to Shri Ram Setu, the legendary bridge built by Shri Ram Chandra Ji. Edi Tailor had placed a proposal before Queen Victoria for destroying the bridge but the Britishers did not touch it. In 1955, Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru appointed Ramaswami Mudaliar Committee to work out the shortest route to Sri Lanka. The Mudaliar Committee recommended that Sri Ram Setu should be broken but Nehru's Government could not gather enough courage to do so.

NASA on October 10, 2002 released satellite photographs which show that a bridge built of stone and mortar lies under the sea. Its length is 31 km and it is seventeen-and-a-half lakh years old. Shri Ram Chandra Ji was born at Ayodhya in Tretayug which dates back to the same time. It is common belief among Hindus that this bridge was erected for Shri Ramchandra Ji to attack Lanka to rescue Sita from the clutches of Ravan. Based upon this belief, the bridge was named Shri Ram Setu, Shri Ram Pul or Setubandh. One may agree or disagree with the thesis, but one point is clear - the bridge is a heritage and pride of India.

The opening ceremony of the Setu Samudram Project was conducted jointly by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, UPA chairperson Sonia Gandhi and Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu M Karunanidhi on July 2, 2005. On the eve of the opening ceremony, a mass movement was launched by fishermen of Rameshwaram to oppose the project. Thirty-five lakh people signed a memorandum against the project on the initiative of the founder of Hindu Munnani, Ramgopalan. On September 27, 2006, Ramgopalan met President APJ Abdul Kalam and submitted the "People's Memorandum".

If we leave religious sentiments attached to the bridge aside, then also the bridge should be preserved on environmental considerations. The 2004 tsunami played havoc on this coastal belt. After that several NGOs and environmentalists conducted a study on the region. Based on their findings, they have expressed fears that if the existing Shri Ram Setu is destroyed, then the dangers of tsunami will increase manifold in this region.

Between India and Sri Lanka, at least 3,300 plants, a large number of fish and 450 species of animals may be found under the sea. Their existence will also be in danger.

We must not forget that China is spending a large amount on preserving the 2,700-year-old 'Great Wall of China'. Egypt is proud of its 4,500-year-old pyramids. In a happy development, 30 manuscripts of the Rig Veda, dating back to 1800-1500 BC, have been added to the UN's heritage list.

Likewise, India should feel proud of its marvellous engineering and architectural achievement buried under the sea. Shri Ram Setu should also be included in the heritage list of UNESCO - this can be done with a little effort. Development should take place but not at the cost of religious sentiments and destruction of culture and heritage.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Mudaliar Committee recommended <b>that Sri Ram Setu should be broken</b> but Nehru's Government could not gather enough courage to do so.

This statement of the above article is factually inaccurate. On the contrary, Mudliar Committee categorically recommended that damaging Rama Setu/Adam's Bridge should not be even considered. They suggested an alignment which would not damage it.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->श्रीराम सेतु के लिए आंदोलन करेगा विहिप

जयपुर। विश्व हिंदू परिषद ने केंद्र से श्रीराम सेतु को तोड़ने का कार्य अविलंब बंद कर भारतीय आस्थाओं का सम्मान करते हुए सेतु को प्राचीन स्मारक एवं पुरातात्विक स्थल घोषित करने की मांग की है। विहिप ने केंद्र सरकार को चेतावनी भरे लहजे में कहा कि यदि श्रीराम सेतु को तोड़ने का काम शीघ्र बंद नहीं किया गया तो साधु-संतों की 28-29 जुलाई को दिल्ली में होने वाली धर्मसभा में इस मुद्दे पर विचार-विमर्श कर देशव्यापी आंदोलन की घोषणा की जाएगी।
विहिप के अंतरराष्ट्रीय महासचिव डा. प्रवीण भाई तोगड़िया ने विहिप की जामडोली में बृहस्पतिवार से शुरू हुई केंद्रीय प्रबंध समिति की बैठक में लिए गए निर्णय एवं भावी कार्ययोजनाओं की जानकारी संवाददाताओं को दे रहे थे। उन्होंने कहा कि श्रीराम सेतु को तोड़ने का निर्णय बदला नहीं गया तो प्रस्तावित धर्मसभा में 'चलो रामेश्वरम्' का नारा भी दिया जा सकता। उन्होंने कहा कि श्रीराम सेतु को बचाने के लिए विहिप किसी भी हद तक संघर्ष पर उतर सकती है। डा. तोगड़िया ने कहा कि केंद्रीय प्रबंध समिति की बैठक में इस मुद्दे पर विचार-विमर्श कर आंदोलन की कार्ययोजना तैयार की जाएगी।
Below news is almost a translation

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Ram Sethu: VHP warns Government - Indian Express

JAIPUR, JUNE 28. The Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) on Thursday threatened an "ugly agitation" if the Centre did not abide by its July 22 deadline to stop the work on Sethusamudram that threatened the Ram Sethu. Speaking to the media here on Thursday, VHP International General Secretary Pravin Togadia said the organisation's new slogan is "Ram Sethu Bachao, Sri Ram Mandir Banao".

Togadia said if the Government failed to take a concrete decision before the Dharma Sansad VHP plans to hold in Delhi on July 22, it would be compelled to launch an agitation across the nation, "which can even take a violent and ugly turn". "Saints from all across the country are expected to participate in the Sansad and all of them are just as passionate about the Ram Sethu as the Ram Mandir in Ayodhya. We will ensure that we get both," he added.

Togadia, who was in the city for a two-day meeting of VHP's Kendria Praband Samiti, refused to comment on the forthcoming presidential elections. "It does not matter to us. We are not a political organisation. Either of the two Shekhawats are welcome," he said. Over 200 members of the Kendria Praband Samiti gathered in Jaipur for a closed-door meeting on the future course of action on the agitation. "The samiti passed the proposal that the Ram Mandir and Ram Sethu issues are to be clubbed and that an agitation would be launched. However, how is yet to be discussed and we might be able to talk about it only tomorrow after detailed discussions," he stated.

<span style='color:red'>Bridge between history & mythology </span>
S Ranjan, Manuj Features in The Central Chronicle:

Way back in 2001, the world's tallest Buddha statue in Afghnaistan widely known as Bamiyan Buddha fell to the barbarism of the Talibans. The appeal of the world community fell to the deaf years of the Talibans who used cannons to destroy the most beautiful Buddha statue in the world. It was the worst heritage crime ever committed by a group of people. If Indians in a hurry destroy Ram Setu they will also be blamed by future generations for committing another heritage crime in their own country. Ram Setu, which could bridge history and mythology should be preserved to trace human civilization some 1,76,000 years behind. According to the NASA's findings as posted through internet, the Ram Setu was man made. George M Low, then Deputy Director, Manned Spacecraft Centre, NASA took the photograph of India, Sri Lanka from an altitude of 410 miles and noted Adam's Bridge between India and Ceylon was clearly visible. The picture taken from space shuttle Endeavour shows the bridge is a stepping stone to coral islets. Now, it is the duty of the scholars of Indian mythologies, historians and scientists to take the clue from NASA and prove whether the bridge was made by men some 1,76,000 years back. According to mythologies the construction of Ram Setu was done exactly 1,76,000 years back.

One can recall the incident of Korean delegates who came to Ayodhya in search of their history. Korean researchers took the clue from their ancient history book Sam Kuk Yusa and painstakingly did long years of research to prove queen Huh the wife of legendary King Suro belonged to Ayodhya. In 1997, Prof BM Kim a descendant of King Suro visited Ayodhya to confirm the marriage of Queen Huh with King Sura 2000 years back. In 2001 Korean delegates built a monument in Ayodhya with plaque inscribing how the princess of Ayodhya married King Suro. The whole of Korea celebrated after finding their 2000 year old history. Indian historians must emulate Korean example of doing painstaking research with the help of latest scientific method and computer technology.

If we say preserving the bridge will halt economic growth, we are messing up our own economy. Over the years we have destroyed our natural sectors in the aggressive pursuit of errand industry sector only. What we have gained is huge revenues, which recycles into a few families' coffers and pushed millions of people below poverty line. If we measure poverty on the basis of 2200 to 2400 calories intake as the base, the number of people below poverty line will cross 300 millions. At present cost, a five-member family earning Rs 10,000 per month cannot afford to have 2400 calories intake each. For an inclusive growth; the Industry and natural sectors must grow simultaneously.

The economic benefits of the Setu Samudram Project as shown will save 30 navigation hours, 424 nautical miles and ultimately cut cost in transportation of goods. If we take into account the environment cost, loss of thorium deposits and loss of jobs in natural sectors it would be a far greater loss. The mission; Shuttle Rada Topography Mission in its observation pointed out these low coastal elevations extend 5 to 10 km in land coastal region are especially vulnerable to flooding associated with storm surges, rising sea level or Tsunami like activity. These so called tidal waves have occurred numerous times in history and can be disastrous.

It is ridiculous to think of dredging a swallow sea when the highways in India have not so far linked vast parts of India. India's poverty is mainly due to lack of smooth inland transportation as goods reach the neighbouring states with much difficulties. If roads are there, the road tax, municipal tax, octroi and many other troubles in checkpoints make transportation of goods a horrible job. When the farm produce reaches the mandis it goes through several layers of middlemen and ultimately the farmers receive one tenth of the price of their produce. The APMCs which were created to give market support to farmers have become the chief exploiters in spite of several APMC reform Acts. It is not understood why India is looking for expensive marine projects when domestic interstate transport is in a bad shape. How far the canals will be economically viable vis-à-vis the huge investment of Rs 2,427 crores is not understood.

Environmentalists also point out the project will endanger the lives of millions of people living in the coastal Tamil Nadu and Kerala as the swallow sea prevents the impact of Tsunami type natural calamities. Many Tsunami experts pointed out without the swallow sea here that Tsunami would have damaged a large part of the coastal states. You cannot face the consequences of destroying part of the Himalayas for mindless projects and revenue. How far the Setu Samudram project will provide employment to millions of unskilled workers in a high tech world is not understood. Over the years Tamil Nadu has witnessed one of the largest migration in the country as more than 40% people in the Asia's largest slum Dharavi in Mumbai are from Tamil Nadu. The state's rural economy is torn apart due to lack of understanding of its natural sectors and regional disparity perpetuated by caste virus affected politicians. Once there were 3000 water bodies in and around Chennai, which met the water requirement of the people. Unregulated real estate and industrial growth destroyed the water bodies in Chennai and the state government spends huge sums to build desalination plant for drinking water.

Pilgrim sector is one of the potential natural sectors. The Ram Setu will undoubtedly boost the pilgrim sector as more than 15 crore Indians visit religious places every year. If further scientific evidence is found about the Ram Setu's origin, it would generate world wide interest among tourists since Ramayana is being recited in most of the Asian nations. NASA can help in a big way if they are concerned to trace the civilization 1,76,000 years away from now. People world over cash in on religious beliefs and attract huge tourists by preserving those places. It is not understood why India is shying away from these beliefs. The World Monument Fund, a US based International preservation body creates awareness for the preservation of Ram Setu. It says introduction of glass boats to see the beautiful rock formation in Ram Setu region will generate interest among tourists also. Ram Setu issue should be free from politics. This is a challenge before the Indian and Sri Lankan scientist and historian community to unravel the truth behind it.

<span style='color:red'>Sethu: Meet to decide plan of action</span>

Coimbatore, July 1: To decide the future plan of action, Rameswaram Ram sethu Protection Movement is organising a people's conference in Madurai on July 22.

Besides the office-bearers of the movement, senior BJP leader L K Advani, heads of various mutts and saints would participate in the conference, working president of the Movement Rama Gopalan told reporters here today.

Remaining firm on protecting the Sethu, both for its sentimental and monumental value, at any cost, the Movement had already submitted a memorandum signed by 36 lakh people to President A P J Abdul Kalam, citing the need to protect and preserve the Ram Sethu, known as Adam's Bridge, he said.

Despite scientific evidences on the existence of the bridge, why the Central government was not willing to heed to the request of the majority community, when it wanted to realise each and every problem of minority community, he asked.

Let there be a debate involving the public, senior officials of ASI, GSI and also environmental experts, as the route would become international waters and pave way for destruction of Kerala and Tamil Nadu costal areas, if another tsunami hit the area, Dr K Kulandaivel, president of the Movement, said. (Agencies)

<b>Uma to launch Ram Setu Andolan from Rameshwaram</b>
Ujjain, MP, July 3: Bharatiya Jan Shakti President Uma Bharti would leave for Rameshwaram today for launching 'Ram Setu Bachao Andolan'.

Ms Bharti told reporters here that she would give a symbolic start to the nationwide Satyagraha Andolan along with about 1,000 supporters after holding talks with Andolan's head Tejal Swami.

--- UNI
Not related to ram setu -
<b>Sadhus come to the rescue of dolphins</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sadhus do not merely deliver sermons or remain lost in meditation. In Bijnor some of them have been saving dolphins too.

The World Wildlife Fund has turned to sadhus in its efforts to conserve the Platanista Gangeticaor Ganga river dolphin, an  endangered species under the Indian Wildlife Protection Act, in a 165 km stretch of the Upper Ganga between Bijnor and Narora.

The sadhus quote a reference to the dolphin in Valmiki's Ramayan, where it is called the 'cow of the Ganga'. Quoting chapter and verse, they cite a line from the Bal Khand, the first chapter of the epic, whose English translation would run: "The Ganga, when it landed on earth, brought with it turtles and crocodiles and dolphins."

Said sadhu Akhilesh Kumar, a Vedic Scholar from Karnvas,<b> "For us, dolphins are the cows of the Ganga. We need to protect them." Sadhu Radheyshyam from the Brighu Rishi Ashram in Beria added: "We want people to come forward and help conserve the Puspukata (as the dolphin is called in Sanskrit).</b>

Roping in the sadhus was the brainchild of Sandeep Behra, Senior Coordinator, World Wildlife Fund - India. At a large gathering of sadhus at Narora in 2000, Behra approached some of the prominent ones among them, and convinced them to join his efforts towards saving the dolphin. Said Behra: "As elsewhere, dolphins in the Ganga are threatened by growing river pollution, fishing and poor river basin management."

<b>The results have been heartening. In 1993-94, the number of the dolphins in this stretch was just 20. In 2001, when the sadhus ventured into the conservation, the figure of dolphins in the stretch was somewhere between 25 and 30. At latest count it was 45. Of these 18 are calves, which will grow to full size in coming years, which is most encouraging."</b>

The sadhus, with the help of the WWF,  have been holding meetings at village and taluka levels. “Refeering to the dolphin as  'cow of the river' has aroused the religious sentiments of the locals,” said a senior WWF coordinator.

The government, on its part has no major plans for the conservation of dolphins. Said D Basu, surveyor in the forest department: "The UP Government is trying to bring the Bijnor to Narora stretch under the National Wetland Programme."

The are around 600 dolphins across all of  UP.
There are 3 well known words for bridge in Telugu, vaaradhi, vanthena and the last one is sethuvu.
Setubandhanam (Ramar Palam) -- Literary evidences compiled by R. Subbarayalu (2007), Thanjavur, Mamannan Padippakam, 124 Natattiranagar 613005


See also evidences related to Rama Setu in literature:


Ppt slide show updated:

<span style='color:red'>Uma Bharti to stage dharna at Rameswaram </span>

Madurai, July 5: Bharatiya Jan Sakthi leader Uma Bharti today said she would stage a dharna at Rameswaram tomorrow and go on a yatra in the town in protest against the ongoing work on the Sethusamudram Ship Canal Project (SSCP).

Speaking to reporters here, she demanded that the Centre get the final report from Geological Survey of India (GSI) on Ramar Sethu (Adam's Bridge) before continuing with the work. A solution should also be found to fishermen's livelihood as they would be unable to fish in that area once the project was completed, she claimed.

She denied Union Shipping Minister T R Baalu's statement that GSI, during her tenure as Union Mines Minister, had opined that Ramar Sethu was a natural formation and not man-made.

"When I was the Union Minister, I evinced interest in knowing more about two heritage sites - tracing the origin of the mythical Saraswati river and Ramar Sethu - and asked the GSI to work on both," she said.

Officials had told her that Adam's Bridge and Ramar Sethu were one and the same and was more than one lakh years old, whereupon she specifically asked them to fix its exact age. When the work was going on, she was made Madhya Pradesh Chief Minister. "I do not know what happened later," she said.

Pointing out that the present alignment was cleared by the UPA government and not the NDA government, she said clearance for such a project could be given only at the highest level. The GSI had not submitted a report to her for approval as alleged by Baalu, she said.

Stating that it was the government's duty to protect the heritage site (Ramar sethu), Uma Bharti demanded that work on it be stopped and that it be protected just like the Taj Mahal. "Even aircraft are not allowed to fly over that area," she said.

Uma Bharti said there would be more economic development if the world were told of the Ramar Sethu 'bridge'. This would bring in lots of tourists, resulting in more economic activity, 'much more than if the SSCP were implemented'.

Asked why she was launching the agitation at such a late stage, she said she was busy facing a series of 'false cases' filed against her in Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan. (Agencies)

Annexures admitted by Madras High Court on Setu case: https://s3.amazonaws.com/ppt-download/annexures4928.pdf
Frequent contributor to IF, Dr Kalayanaraman on Rediff:
Ramar Sethu, a world heritage centre?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Section 295 of the Indian Penal Code says sentiments of the people about sacredness should be respected. If anybody hurts the sentiments of people, it is a cognisable offence. But here, the state says a monument does not exist and is trying to destroy it instead of protecting it. With all these evidences to back my point, I say that Ramar Sethu should be declared a world heritage site.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

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