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Islamism - 6
<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Jun 28 2007, 06:49 AM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Jun 28 2007, 06:49 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Husky, mahaakavi Sri bhavabhUti's grand work of poetic drama is about the life of Rama.  Title is probably dedicated to another most wonderful mahAvIr - 'mahAvIr vikram vajrangI' Sri Hanuman.
Great poet probably lived in the 7th/8th century.
[right][snapback]70601[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Thanks Bodhi. That makes it even later! Once again, <b><i>assuming</i></b> the reference to Sita veiling herself occurs in that:
By the 7th/8th century, India had had a much longer association with Persia (N India in any case) for the custom to have steeped so far into everyday N Indian life that the poet could have incorporated that into his book on Hanuman.

Unless such an event occurs in the original Ramayanam or other Pauranic lit on Rama (from memory, I don't think it occurs in Valmiki's), where else but from the poet's imagination and surroundings could he have obtained the veil-incident from? He was obviously writing from how the situation was in his time.

I've updated #257 with an IF internal link I managed to track down on how in 320 bce there were Hindus in the Persian army fighting the Greeks. By that time India obviously already had contact with the Persian empire for Hindus to already be in their ranks. And this contact continued until much much later.

Again, from the material pasted in #252
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->>The Kalibhana grant also tells us that the women of the royal
> household observed purda in Orissa [ 1200, p.70 ] [ In.H.Qu.
> XX (1944) p.242 ]
> Vachaspati tells us that women of good families did not come
> without a veil in public [ Vach. ] [ 1200, p.70 ].<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->(Again, assuming the reds aren't lying for a change) This sounds so very much like the Persian custom, including what the royalty did:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Achaemenid times Persian queens were hidden from the people.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anyone know when Vachaspati lived - in fact, does anyone know the dates of all those sources Jha and his sidekick came up with? (Until <i>at least</i> early 4th century bce if not even longer ago, we can trace the custom back to Persia.)
my finding so far.

Here is the original:

Ram spoke in Sanskrit, while Sita answered in prakrit. The whole drama is a mix of Sanskrit-Prakrit. Sanskrit uses apabhransha-s too.

<img src='http://inlinethumb28.webshots.com/3611/2374692760100818794S425x425Q85.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

vIrarAghava explains in his TIkA:

<img src='http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/4019/2803309300100818794S425x425Q85.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Jha's quotation from mahAvIracharit is accurate enough, but he conveniently does not mention the context. The general context of this scene of the drama is this. Rama and Sita are just married. They are roaming in a garden. Sita is justly in SringAr as suitable to a newly married bride, enjoying the company of her new husband. Probably seeing how Sita is dressed, knowing that bhargava is approaching in anger alongwith guru vasiSTha, Rama respecting them, advises Sita to cover herself and go away.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='color:red'>Muslim students refuse food cooked by Dalit woman </span>

Thursday June 28, 04:48 PM
Patna, June 28 (IANS) Dozens of Muslim students of a government-run Urdu school in a Bihar village have refused to take mid-day meals cooked by a Dalit woman.

'We will not touch the food. There is no question of taking food cooked by a woman belonging to the scheduled caste,' said Nurjahan Bano, an eight-year-old student of Amri Urdu middle school in Rohtas district, about 150 km from here.

Md Aslam Ansari, a teacher in the school, admitted that Muslim students were not eating mid-day meals for nearly a month. 'It is an unfortunate thing,' he said.

'All the Muslim students of the school refused to eat food cooked by a Dalit woman,' villager Naushad Alam said. There are over 100 students in the school.

Some parents of the school students are responsible for the decision, Alam said.

'Last month, only a few students refused to eat food cooked by a Dalit woman but later most of the students followed them,' he said.

No official has visited the school so far despite a complaint filed by the Dalit woman who used to cook for the students under the mid-day meal scheme.

The district administration officials are planning to visit the school for an inspection. 'We will inquire into the case soon,' district official Ramnarain said.

Two bits of news

(1) Knew it was only a matter of time. 'Protecting the islamis in Buddhist Thailand by declaring Buddhism is not the national religion.' Thailand's islami leader of military coup planning a "We are secular" too (later to become a minorities-first drama a la India)?
And/or are others also fishing in Thailand's troubled waters? Missionaries are hard at work in the country and one knows they find it hard going in Thailand (as they did in Nepal before their communist friends took over there). What does King Rama the nth have to say? He's a Buddhist.

At this rate, not a single Asian country will be allowed to be anything but islamic, communist, christian (Phillipines) or 'secular' (India, Nepal and the like). It's clear that unless you're a christoislamic majority or communist-ruled Asian country, you are not allowed to have a state religion/ideology.
Gee, I wonder who all have to gain from this...

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Saturday June 30, 03:10 PM
<b>Thai charter drafters reject Buddhism as national religion</b>

Photo : AFP 
<b>Thailand's constitution writers have rejected a plea to name Buddhism as the national religion, a drafter said Saturday, despite protests and hunger strikes by campaigning monks.</b>

The Constitution Drafting Assembly (CDA), appointed by the junta that seized power last year, on Friday voted 66-19 not to include Buddhism in the new charter, which replaces a 1997 version torn up by the coup leaders.

"Religion is a very sensitive issue, which has never before been mentioned in the constitution, so we are afraid that it will be divisive," said Wuthichart Kalayanamitra, a CDA member.

<b>About 95 percent of Thais are Buddhist, but critics of the proposal had warned that naming a national religion could inflame tensions in the Muslim-majority south, where a separatist insurgency has raged for three years.</b>
(I see Thailand has its own active pseudosecularists. Not wrong in suspecting that they might well be in the pay of Big Brother too.)

Buddhist monks had campaigned fiercely for its inclusion, with 3,000 rallying outside the Thai parliament earlier this month. A similar protest in April saw the monks bring nine elephants marching through the streets of Bangkok.

Five saffron-clad monks on hunger strike also spent more than a week in June lying in open coffins outside the national parliament building.

Buddhist activists reacted angrily to the CDA decision, with a group of monks on Friday tipping over a huge replica alms bowl outside parliament.

Thongchai Kua-sakul, chairman of the Buddhist Network of Thailand, said that members had called off their protests, but warned that they would now campaign against the charter, which goes to a referendum on August 19.

He said Buddhist organisations would campaign at 30,000 temples throughout Thailand and urge people to vote 'no' in the kingdom's first ever referendum.

"We will campaign vigorously," he told AFP.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I hope they (the protesting Buddhist monks) will succeed where India and Nepal have failed.
Thailand is a Buddhist nation.

(2) http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story....jectid=10448813
<b>Police find two car bombs in London</b>
June 30, 2007
<b>Range of extremist groups in the frame</b>
29 June 2007

Iraqi-style car bombs. Fortunately found before they could do any damage. Number 1 suspect is AQ - but investigators are keeping their minds open.

<b>Bomb bid has echoes of earlier terror plot</b>
30 June 2007
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Mr Clarke also specifically mentioned nightclubs as a potential target.

Plotters in another terror cell - known as the "fertiliser bomb plotters " or the "Bluewater plotters" - were convicted earlier this year. They had discussed targeting the Ministry of Sound nightclub with an explosive device.

Mr Clarke noted that thousands of people were leaving West End nightspots at the time the vehicle was found in Haymarket today.

Central to Barot's plans was the "gas limos project", the main part of which was uncovered in Pakistan.
He said Barot travelled to Pakistan in early 2004, with the "obvious inference" being that the purpose of the trip was to present the plans for approval and funding.

He said: "The principal attack involved packing three limousines with gas cylinders, explosives, shrapnel and the like and then detonating the devices in underground car parks."

Barot, who pleaded guilty to conspiracy to murder, wanted to "emulate" the Madrid train bombings, which killed almost 200 people, Mr Lawson told the court, adding: "The gas limos project might be seen as the culmination of Barot's murderous plans."

Barot also planned to detonate a dirty bomb and to cause an explosion on a Tube train while in a tunnel under the River Thames.

<b>The gas limos project</b> document was found following a raid by the Pakistani authorities in Gujarat, Pakistan, in July 2004.

<b>Barot, a 34-year-old Muslim convert, from north London, was jailed for a minimum of 40 years.</b>

<b>Omar Khyam led the fertiliser plotters</b> in a plan to use more than half a ton of chemical fertiliser to bring terror to the UK.

The plan was foiled by intercepted internet chatroom conversations, surveillance and the discovery of the fertiliser in a storage depot in west London.

<b>One of the plotters was heard to say that blowing up women at a nightclub would be fair game because no-one could be blamed for killing innocent people, only "those slags dancing around".</b> 
<!--emo&:o--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ohmy.gif' /><!--endemo--> (Who said islam didn't respect women?)
<b>Barot wrote:</b> "This project forms the main cornerstone (main target), of a series of planned attacks that have been prepared for synchronised execution on the same day, at the same time."

<b>"That is to say projects are planned to be co-ordinated back to back as they were with 9/11, thus forming another memorable black day for the enemies of Islam and a victory for the Muslims (Inshalla) by the mercy of Allah." </b>

The discovery of Barot's plans proved the "trigger" for his arrest.

Once detectives realised what Barot was plotting, they decided it was simply too dangerous to leave him out on the streets.

They resolved that the next moment he reappeared on the radar, he would be arrested.

The Met's Mr Clarke said at the Scotland Yard briefing: "In one previous case we heard talk of nightclubs potentially becoming targets.

"And in the Barot case we saw reference to vehicles being filled with gas or fuel in order to create an explosion.

"Obviously, we are aware of that but at this stage it is too soon to draw any conclusions.

"I have referred to some facts, some features of what has happened which resonate with previous plots, and I would not at this stage like to speculate." <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Muslims burn a 14 year old Hindu boy in Bengal.

How do you explain that islam is more succesful then christianity or hinduism?
Some times i wonder,if Europe or USA will convert to islam.Most of europeans renunce to their old medieval religion.In their search of a new religion they gona choose the islam?
I imagine in year2050 a islamic Europe,USA,Russia(40% of population will be muslim by simple demographic growth).I imagine Ben Laden whit nuclear capabilites of USA.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->How do you explain that islam is more succesful then christianity or hinduism?
Some times i wonder,if Europe or USA will convert to islam.Most of europeans renunce to their old medieval religion.In their search of a new religion they gona choose the islam?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
successful in what sense, in taking us all back to 7th century arabia?

if you mean in the sense that it's adherents are increasing each day, well you urself gave the reason, it's simple demographics, while many non muslims will chicken out after 2 kids, the muslim might have 5 and call it allah's gift, naturally in a democratic set up u increase ur power as ur pop increases more in comparison to other groups, either you get into counter breeding to stop that or prepare for a civil war later when they reach 50% or so, proposals for china like laws to curb their growth will not work cuz they would go against "democracy and democratic principles" in the first place.
<!--QuoteBegin-Honsol+Jul 1 2007, 10:18 PM-->QUOTE(Honsol @ Jul 1 2007, 10:18 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->How do you explain that islam is more succesful then christianity or hinduism?
Some times i wonder,if Europe or USA will convert to islam.Most of europeans renunce to their old medieval religion.In their search of a new religion they gona choose the islam?
I imagine in year2050 a islamic Europe,USA,Russia(40% of population will be muslim by simple demographic growth).I imagine Ben Laden whit nuclear capabilites of USA.[right][snapback]70680[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Counterbreeding as Bharatvarsh suggested is good, but Europe needs less competitive and more permanent plans to combat the dangerous consequences of a demography shift towards islamism.

While non-muslims are still the majority in Europe, they should democratically vote in laws to send all terrorists and terrorist sympathizers back to their countries of origin.
This means closing those islami schools in NL where children and teachers cheered the WTC bombing; its board should be dissolved and sent packing, and so too the teachers, kids and their parents that participated in celebrating the mass murder.
(Ayaan Hirsi Ali advocates that there should be no islami schools at all - that all muslim children should go to regular schools. This will be better for integration, certainly to some extent.)

Eventually, this would mean that Europe will be left with only the safe muslims - and those of the islami ummah that aren't safe would at least learn to be better-behaved considering the consequences. Next to that, many seculars of islami-origin will be safe from persecution by jehadis.

While Germany didn't so much as wince when, somewhat over a decade ago, it sold its Roma population to other countries (and that too, in spite of the fact that regrouped fascists where waiting to gruesomely murder the Roma upon arrival), it now feels all PC and fuzzy-hearted when it comes to deporting <i>terrorists and terrorist sympathizers</i>? That's some seriously skewed sense of morals.
When sent back, the terrorists will - if not cheered outright by the islami ummah back home - be placed in Pakistani, Turkish or other prisons. (And don't terrorists deserve a jail sentence?) Thus there will be no human rights violations against deported islamoterrorists. (And even if any were ever sentenced to death in their islamic pardees - at least death-by-hanging sounds better than being electrocuted by The Chair.)

Europe just needs to be sensible: islam promises to destroy it, so Europe should just deport islamic inclinations (nipping terrorism in the bud). No harm done. Also need stricter immigration laws.
London is now Londonastan. Muslims prefer to send their kids to Madarsa on Weekend. I was shocked to see Imam roaming in streets and asking/forcing kids to attend Madarsa. I know one family in Slough, stone throw away from Eaton and Windsor Palace, and their next door neighbors are from Pakistan. Neighbors had six daughters and one son. All are born in UK. Five of daughters and son now married live in one house along with parents, house is three bedrooms and one bath. Plus now they have 3-4 kids also in family. Don't forget in UK rooms are tiny and same with Bathroom. All son-in-laws and daughter-in-law are from Pakistan. Two of them now works in local factory/shop etc rest are unemployed or work in Mosque.
This type of situation is common, they are not only breeding but unemployed and burden on Government. They are more fanatic, I won’t say they are religious but for sure looking for quick bucks.
Europe invasion by Islamist is showing its real color.

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