04-11-2007, 11:26 AM (This post was last modified: 04-12-2007, 06:17 PM by Husky.)
B Walker writes (in the article of post 114):
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>OTHER CULTURAL CURIOSITIES</b>
[...]
Doggie Marriage. No analysis of the subcontinent's colorful culture would be complete without mention of canine-human nuptials. In certain ethnic groups, a child whose first tooth appears inauspiciously located in the mouth is married off to a protective canine<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Oh, the wondrous discriminating eye of the western taxonomist - did you hear that? We're all 'different ethnic groups' in India.... To them, we're either Oryans and Dravidoids or we're a million little ethnic groups dotting the countryside. How dare the Hindoos presume to be a single ethnic group: united though we are since ancient times by a common spiritual heritage (Sanatana Dharma), civilisational ethos, cultural base, and a common Father Language (but with different Mother Languages). This is what defines an ethnicity: shared history, culture, common language. And we have that. We Hindoos may be heathens to Brenda Walker's bigoted eyes but we're one ethnic group (allowing for subethnicities to express local variety). Brenda should stop her subtle racism and stop using 'ethnicity' as 'race'. Say what you mean or don't say it at all.
So now we're supposed to be 'embarrassed' that some Hindu communities temporarily marry kids off to a protective canine? I'm actually rather pleased about that. Dogs are very protective and friendly animals, the kid will learn to respect the creature and learn its good qualities at a young age. What a lovely tradition. And I am certain that with the wondrous magic power animals have, the dog will ward off any evil that may befall a child. Native Americans have totem animals - their spiritual animal guides. We have this. Brenda can laugh on her own (or with similar-minded W-European Caucasian friends of hers) at us 'savages', but it doesn't make me any less thrilled about our traditions and ways of life. I think she is confused. Instead of getting to us to feel embarassed with this little example, she's starting to make me even happier to be Hindu.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In Orissa, a woman became connubially attached to a cobra out of affection, it was reported.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->'Oh those funny Hindoos,' said the christian colonial. 'Marrying the evil serpent = devil. May jesus open their eyes'. Snakes are sacred animals, and considered Gods. Nagas are the spirits of the Snake Gods worshipped all over ancient India. (Naga is also a name of an Indian community.) If this Hindu woman wanted to spend the rest of her life with this cobra because she loved it, what does it matter? There are many stories of native N Americans marrying sacred bears or Japanese Shintos marrying sacred garden Kamis. Brenda is laughing on her own again. Playing western anthropologist no doubt: 'studying' those 'funny' other cultures to laugh at them. Laugh away.
The Indian woman's affection is hers to give, and if she chooses a Cobra to give it to, that is her business. There are many w-European American women married to abusive men - monsters in the shape of man - who the abused woman will not leave because of her misplaced love. No one laughs at them (I will not), but it is a far more curious and surprising thing than a woman marrying a Cobra who is not cruel to her and with which she feels an affinity.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In another curious wedding, a teenaged boy married a hill in Jharkand state to remove a curse from his mother.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Same thing. And the problem lies where exactly? What is wrong with marrying a Hill or a Tree or a River? All these things, as are animals, are considered sacred and auspicious by Hindus. In this way they are regarded as having the power to remove curses and bring good fortune.
At least Hills, Trees and Waters exist. Nuns - the brides of christ - are married to the long-dead jesus as per christian accounts (or long undead, if we take into account the fabled 'resurrection'). In fact, jesus appears to have been very much non-existent according to scholarship. So who must we be laughing at again?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Froggie Marriage etc. When drought strikes, the thing to do may be to invoke a higher power by marrying off a couple of toads with appropriate flourish to propitiate the rain gods.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Does she mean marrying toads to each other or marrying themselves off to a couple of toads? Still not clear. If the latter:
This one will be somewhat closer to home to B Walker. Her names sounds English, she must know the fairy-tale "Der Froschkoenig" - known in English as the 'Frog Prince'. I'll summarise: princess drops golden ball in pond, frog says he will get it for her if she promises to drink from the same beker and eat from the same plate and sleep in the same bed with him and gives him a goodnight kiss. Princess promises, frog gets her the ball, princess runs off. Frog slowly follows. He finds her and reminds her in public of her promise. The noble king tells his daughter to keep her word. The princess unwillingly does all those things and kisses the frog goodnight at which point he turns into a prince who it seems had been enchanted.
Note there's nothing obscene in the frog's request - sharing a bed merely meant she admits it as a husband, princesses don't make room for any other. Even if the Freudian-addicts/'scholars' typically read all kinds of icky stuff into this as they do into all fairy tales, one may dismiss it as being due to their eye for sordid imaginings.
My point? (I know scholars say most fairy tales come from India, but Der Froschkoenig has long been widely known in Germany and E Europe and other countries. So it is not alien to the western-European psyche.)
So then, here's the reason I brought up the Frog Prince: the father of the princess wanted his daughter to keep her word at a point when neither he nor any one else suspected the frog may be a human. The princess (unwillingly) kept her word at a point when no one knew it was human. She had in fact admitted a frog as spouse (in some versions the frog asks her to additionally promise to call him darling/dear). And no one snubs the story, but instead everyone thinks she did the right thing in keeping her promise. That is the useful thing one gets out of the story.
B Walker feels it necessary to critique the actions of people she doesn't know, will never meet, and who are in no way miserable for the temporary marriage they've contracted. Then are we to prepare ourselves for her complaint against the 'immorality' of repeating stories like The Frog Prince or Beauty and the Beast (or the Scandinavian fairy-tale 'East of the Sun, West of the Moon' where a princess marries a Polar Bear) to children - tales which are still narrated in Europe. B Walker no doubt puts on a sour face - if she doesn't sue anyone for it - whenever she hears of those stories being told to children as if they were/could be true. She wouldn't hypocritically find them merely 'charming' while she finds us to be laughable 'curiosities', oh no, she'd never. She'd be <i>consistent</i>. Yeah, right.
I think those w-European Caucasians who share the same mindset with B Walker are funny. They're hypocrites, but funny hypocrites. Their powers for self-delusion are limitless, as is their holier-than-thou attitude. Thankfully they're a rarity in the overall western culture, but are a strange curiosity nevertheless. I say we should study them.
<b>For those easily disgusted or otherwise sensitive, avoid the following - it is not a pleasant read by any means, but I will add it:</b>
Here's something disgusting that B Walker left out. As momentary Sewer Inspector of the west, I am allowed to mention it. http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/dutch-ped...6817133451.html
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Dutch pedophile party seeks support for election</b>
September 2, 2006 - 10:48AM
A political party formed by Dutch pedophiles tried today to win more support for its campaign to legalise sex with children so it can run in national elections in November.
The Brotherly Love, Freedom and Diversity party (PNVD) was launched in May and its campaign for a cut in the age of consent from 16 to 12 and the legalisation of child pornography and sex with animals has provoked widespread outrage in the Netherlands.
Party officials said they had gathered more than 100 signatures so far but needed to collect several hundred more in the next month to be allowed to run in the November 22 general election.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->The rest of the article is just too much for me and has made me sick. Read it if you think you can stomache it.
B Walker and her mental compatriots should read it in its entirety. In the heartland of her holy W-European Empire the members of a <i>paedophile</i> party are getting signatures for legalising paedophilia <i>and</i> assaulting animals, and cops haven't even arrested these vile villains yet. <!--emo&:furious--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/furious.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='furious.gif' /><!--endemo--> Then again, the haven of paodophiles that is the Church hasn't been raided either.
Meanwhile Walker felt it necessary to mention one Indian (living in the US) over and over again for his sexual exploitation of young girls. She forgot a whole political party in the Netherlands, and - far more importantly - she forgot that Prime Institution of Holy Morals and Sacred Decency: the Christian Church.
04-12-2007, 03:14 PM (This post was last modified: 04-12-2007, 03:40 PM by dhu.)
Husky,
I don't think we can say that european is heroic versus a decadent, sinful Semitic; Semitic is not that different in type from european, only that there was reversal in the contact zone of Semitic and euro (Extreme Northwest Semitic- judah). Both are notable in that they lack the yogic Tapasya element seen to the East of Baluchistan, as pointed out by Kazanas.
......Jewish scholars who have studied the origins of Christianity have noted that it was NOT born of the Old Testament, it was born of Hellenized Judaism. Alexander the Great conquered the Persian Empire ca. 333 BCE; over a period of some 300 to 400 years, Greek metaphysical thought about God, and man's relationship with him, came to influence certain individuals, quarters and sects of Judaism. Christianity, then, arose from Hellenized Judaism, a form of Judaism which had come to accept certain Greek metaphysical views about God and man. Some sects of Judaism were less "Hellenized" than others.
An important NEW concept was introduced to Hellenized Judaism via the Greeks, the employment of "Greek Allegory" to derive NEWÂ MEANINGS FROM ANCIENT TEXTS. The Christians, however were not the first to employ Greek allegory, they were preceeded by earlier Hellenized Jewish efforts. In Alexandria, Egypt, a Hellenized Jew, called Philo, attempted to reconcile Jewish scriptures with current Greek metaphysical thought. He did this via the employment of Greek allegory. His work, which survives, quotes various verses from the Old Testament, and then re-interprets these verses as reflecting Greek metaphysical concepts.
So, the Christians did NOT "invent" allegory as a methodology by which to derive new meanings of ancient texts (the Old Testament), they merely "utilized allegory," which by thier time, was regarded by certain sects of Hellenized Judaism as a "legitimate device or procedure" to derive a different interpretation of God's intent for his people, and mankind.
...
Conclusions:
<b>Christianity arose from Hellenized Judaism. It's re-interpretations of the Hebrew Bible or Old Testament, employed "Allegory," </b>which allowed a different reading of the ancient texts, a reading that opposed earlier readings by main-stream Judaism as understood and defended by the Rabbis of the first and second centuries A.D.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Asherah poles in Biblical archaeology
Some Biblical archaeologists have suggested that until the 6th century BC the Jewish people had household shrines, or at least figurines, of Asherah, which are strikingly common in the archaeological remains; many of these seem to make clear that Asherah was seen as Yahweh's (i.e. God's) wife [3]. .....link<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In studying the i<b>nscriptions from Kuntillet Ajrud, Ze'ev Meshel </b>and others have held that in the blessings <b>"by YHWH of Samaria/Teman and His/its asherah,"</b> the term asherah refers to the cultic object of that name and not to the goddess Asherah.<1> The plausibility of this interpretation, I believe, is enhanced by a practice of late Second Temple times in which YHWH and a personified cult object are addressed in the same breath. link<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
04-12-2007, 05:00 PM (This post was last modified: 04-12-2007, 05:16 PM by Husky.)
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Husky,
I don't think we can say that european is heroic versus a decadent, sinful Semitic;<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->It is an error to attribute such a notion to me. This is the first time I've ever come across such an idea. It has certainly never been my view and is most alien to me.
In fact, I don't think you yourself ever indicated such a thing either. So who is this mysterious 'we'? <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I never conceived of any ethnic battle of Greco-Romans vs Jewish people - besides, how different can people be when they both originate in the smallish region of the Mediterranean?
Nor did I ever even consider any side to have an ideological upperhand, that is, between Greco-Roman religion and Judaism. I have no troubles with either ideology (granted I don't know as much about the latter).
But I do have a problem with christoislamism: the heretical parasite ideologies that grafted themselves onto Judaism. I've always insisted Judaism had nothing to do with, but that christianity was an upstart religion that <i>claimed</i> its origins in Judaism in order to give itself legitimacy, all the while it mangled Judaic scriptures in order to validate jesus' messiah-ness.
Judaism itself is innocent of this. This is why I find fault with the terms 'judeo-christian' and 'Abrahamic religions' - both giving christianity (and islam) a sheen of respectability by wrongly grouping them with Judaism. Precisely why I take exception to the unfortunately commonly-used term 'judeo-christian', as it is offensive to the only legitimate religion there.
Anyway, explanation done. Now moving onto this:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Christianity arose from Hellenized Judaism. It's re-interpretations of the Hebrew Bible or Old Testament, employed "Allegory,"<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I can see how this is a possibility. But it's not 'Judaism' if it is Hellenized, in my opinion.
Whoever the scribes were who created Paul, they were specifically <i>not</i> Jewish - although I suppose we must allow some chance that they might have been Hellenized people from Judea (who were not Jewish if they were Hellenized, obviously) but even that need not have been the case.
The creators of 'Paul' were most certainly anti-Jewish since their anti-Semitic statements, which they put into the mouth of their fiction 'Paul', were hurled particularly at Jewish people (that is, at the practitioners of Judaism).
See here: http://freetruth.50webs.org/A5.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The seeds of Christian hatred for Jews begins from the readings of the New Testament and the persecutions began when the Church first held power to enforce its dogmas. <b>The Biblical Paul, for example, put the blame of Jesus's death entirely on the Jews. In the first epistle of Paul to the Thessalonians (2:14-15), it says,
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"the Jews who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets...."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--></b>Also the gospel of John, makes it clear that the Jews represent an enemy (and John 8:44 puts the devil as the father of the Jews). <b>Many prominent priests used <i>Paul's epistles</i> and the gospels as Biblical justification for Jewish persecution.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Now, who but non-Jewish people could have come up with that? Hence the authors of Paul could not be Jews, but at closest call can only come as far as being Hellenised Judeans (people of Judea) and, like I said, even that need not be at all.
I still think Paul's inventors might have been Gnostic christians from Syria, or Marcionites who were from Caesarea in Asia Minor it seems (in today's Turkey) according to this page.
In point of fact, I think it was far more likely that the Marcionites (a christian Gnostic sect) created Paul than any Hellenized Judeans.
See for example: http://freetruth.50webs.org/B2c.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Falsified Paul: Early Christianity in the Twilight by Hermann Detering (of the Radical Criticism school), translated and made available here in its complete form online, along with a summary outline. In short:<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->This book shows that all the <b>Pauline letters</b> are all 2nd-Century fabrications, Catholically <b>redacted from Marcionite</b> gnostic dualist-god original versions.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
linked to from: Radikal Kritik's English pages<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some more on Marcionites: http://freetruth.50webs.org/B1b.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The most ancient dated Christian inscription (Oct. 1, 318 A.D.) runs "The Lord and Saviour Jesus the Good"â Chrestos, not Christos. This was the legend over the door of a <b>Marcionite Church, and the Marcionites were Anti-Jewish Gnostics</b>, and did not confound their Chrestos with the Jewish Christos (Messiah).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In the Synagogue of the Marcionites on Mount Hermon, built in the third century A.D., the Messiah's title is spelled Chrestos. According to Tertullian and Lactantius, the common people usually called Christ Chrestos.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->The second paragraph refers to their church as a Synagogue, whereas other writers call it only church. Since Marcionites were anti-Jewish, I don't think their building ought to be called Synagogue at all.
But Marcionism started in <i>Caesarea in Asia Minor</i> (turns out there are several other places also called Caesarea) according to http://www.medmalexperts.com/POCM/triumph_...cholarship.html
which seems to be quite knowledgeable about early christianity. Turns out Mount Hermon is shared between Syria (homeland of Gnostic christianity) and Israel.
From BBC's website -
two different stories, same picture
this is dated 23 Feb 2007 Scheme to aid duped Indian brides
the caption here is 'The women will be entitled to financial assistance'
and this one is today's story India re-assesses menstrual forms
here the caption is 'Female civil servants say they are being discriminated against'
04-12-2007, 06:37 PM (This post was last modified: 04-12-2007, 06:39 PM by Husky.)
Post 124 (Rraajjeevv - your name is deceptively tricky to type, btw):
That is indeed the silliest thing. The photo is of a group of four women doing some window shopping. I don't know what they have to do with 'being duped Indian brides':
<img src='http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42606000/jpg/_42606677_bbc203indexwindow.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Caption: The women will be entitled to financial assistance <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Heroic BBC, ever the Phileas Fogg, saving the Hindoooooo bride from sutteeeeee. Thank gawwwd for the bbc, without that highly illustrative picture I wouldn't know to recognise an Indian woman in wedding-related distress. But now it's all clear: every Indian woman is apparently in danger of being duped. Grief.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->India re-assesses menstrual forms
here the caption is 'Female civil servants say they are being discriminated against'<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->The window-shopping Indians should sue the BBC for taking a pic of them and using it out of context, <i>twice</i>. Maybe it will finally stop the beeb from continuous stupidity. No? Perhaps not.
`Old media' is still valued for its accuracy, but Web 2.0 gets the scoops.
â PHOTO: AP
Co-hosts of an NBC television show report on April 19 on a video manifesto and photos sent to their network by Virginia Tech gunman Cho Seung-Hui, shown on a studio monitor at left.
THE CONTROVERSY over NBC's decision to broadcast the thoughts of Virginia Tech killer Cho Seung-hui illustrates the daily dilemmas faced by news journalists. Most of their counterparts would find it difficult to justify withholding the tapes. "We are not censors," says John Ryley, Sky's head of news, succinctly summing up the consensus on this side of the Atlantic. But once the controversy over the screening of Cho's "multimedia manifesto" recedes, the massacre is likely to be remembered as a great leap forward in the evolution of Internet news.
Social networking sites including Facebook and MySpace were an integral part of the event â survivors reportedly logged on to find out what was taking place even as Cho continued his rampage. Soon after, the rest of the world joined them, posting messages of support, sympathy and outrage online. In the aftermath, tributes, eyewitness accounts, photos and video appeared on the Net.
"Old media" outlets responded by plundering material posted on the web and pumping their own content into the online ether. The Internet encouraged a collective expression of emotion, which has been faithfully reported by established media outlets: "Students turn to web in time of tragedy," said The Los Angeles Times last week.
It helps that nearby Roanoke is one of the most wired cities in America, and that Virginia Tech's students are part of the most web-literate generation in history. But the Internet has done more than create an online community of grief; the immediacy of the medium helped to relay the full horror of the event. Once again, "citizen journalists" armed with mobile phones supplied invaluable material, including pictures and video footage of the shootings, to established news organisations.
Some, including CNN, snapped up exclusive rights to phone footage. Other broadcasters and newspapers have been busy pilfering whatever content they can from cyberspace, often with scant regard for copyright.
Suddenly, the Internet looks less like a threat to "old media," and more like a resource it can easily exploit. That is partly because established outlets have marched online. Sky News re-launched its website last Thursday, and plans to shift more resources online. The Daily Telegraph has staked its future on the Internet, and The Times is the latest newspaper to invest heavily in its online offering. Anne Spackman, the editor-in-chief of Times Online, says the Virginia coverage "feels like a coming-of-age moment."
She points out that "even a year ago" technological constraints meant her site would have been unable to carry the video footage, including a link to footage of the carnage filmed by a student. Nor could it have displayed Cho's chilling video messages.
"In the early day of the Internet, we were all excited that it allowed us to get stories out more quickly, but essentially it was the same information the paper carried the next day," she says. "The Internet hasn't just expanded our coverage, it has made it much deeper and richer." In that respect, at least, newspapers are catching up with broadcasters, who have been screening "user generated content" sent in by viewers for years, notably during Hurricane Katrina.
Gratifyingly for Ms. Spackman, a user at American website Fark.com, which aggregates news from sources around the globe, asked last week: "Why does The London Times have better reporting than we do?"
"Fark is exactly the kind of site that people said would kill off papers like us," Ms. Spackman points out. But newspapers still have the best content, she claims, and "people will search that out."
The killings led to a spike in Internet traffic as well as TV audiences. Sky's website had four million page impressions on Monday, a million more than usual, and major U.S. news sites experienced a huge increase in volume. CNBC's website saw a 157 per cent rise in traffic from Sunday to Tuesday.
Alex Burmaster, an Internet analyst at Nielsen Netratings, says: "More people are now going to the Internet for news because it's not just static content. Since the advent of broadband the Internet has evolved hugely in terms of audio and video content and news is a massive beneficiary."
This is "convergence" being played out in real time, but its arrival has been nervously awaited by many traditional news organisations. If information is available, unfiltered and uncensored, online, why should consumers turn to them to find it? The answer, as the Virginia shootings showed, is that the Net's greatest strength, its immediacy, cannot compensate for its biggest weakness â inaccuracy. False reports about the killer's identity were on the Net within hours. "We had pictures of `the killer' on Tuesday morning," Ms. Spackman says, "but our picture desk expressed reservations." Sure enough, it wasn't him.
"People trust brands like us because we have built a reputation for checking facts over decades," she says. "It is basic, sound journalistic practice."
Sky's Mr. Ryley agrees that the widespread dissemination of information "will reinforce the brand value of trusted organisations. But at the same time it will put a lot of pressure on all of us to check and double-check. It used to be your own staff that brought stuff in. Now you need journalists who are not just curious, but sceptical." He says user-generated content is "another source, just as the diaries of infantrymen are a source for a historian studying Waterloo." News organisations must do what they have always done, verifying its authenticity before airing or printing it.
"The joy of the Internet is if you make a mistake you can take it down quickly. With a newspaper, it's there forever," says Ms. Spackman. But although a sophisticated public knows it will find gossip, innuendo, and speculation online, it expects responsible news outlets to deal only in hard facts.
Established media must also meet higher standards of taste and decency as well as accuracy. That explains why NBC was forced to apologise for screening Cho's videos last week. Chris Shaw, who oversees Five's news and current affairs output, argues that the Internet can affect decision-making. "I don't think TV would have shown this video so quickly if they didn't know if would be on the Internet within hours," he says.
The Internet is influencing the tone of mainstream media coverage in more subtle ways too, says Financial Times executive John Lloyd. He says Israelis' view of the recent war with Lebanon was profoundly affected by "emails and photos [from Israeli soldiers] that were streaming back in real time." Most of them questioned why they were on the front line, and that had a profound effect on public sentiment.
Beyond that, says Mr. Lloyd, "hooking into these streams of emotion is now becoming a very large part of the way these events are covered. You see emotions in blogs and on the Internet that, for the most part, are kept out of objective news coverage." That constitutes a threat to the traditional media operations, he says, because "some people are grasping the news by emotion rather than through a narrative."
Covering horrific events in an era of 24-hour news presents its own challenges for "old media." But if they can remain impartial and objective in the face of this trend, they could find their output becomes more valuable, and sought-after, than ever. â
People shekhar gupta has been caught lying once again
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->But Rajnath Singh arrives soon enough to restore some degree of
sanity.....
Of course, the only other freedom fighter he talked about was Chandra
Shekhar Azad and no prizes for guessing why. He is a Thakur, so is his
candidate at Dhampur, and so was Azad.
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/29521._.html<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's well known that Azad was a Brahmin.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Chandra Shekhar Azad was born on July 23, 1906 in village Bhavra in Jhabua district of Madhya Pradesh. His parents were Pandit Sitaram Tiwari and Jagarani Devi. He received his early schooling in Bhavra. For higher studies he went to the Sanskrit Pathashala at Varanasi. He was an ardent follower of Hanuman and once disguised himself as a priest in a hanuman temple to escape the dragnet of British police.
Pastor attack: Media under scanner
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Rajasthan police, meanwhile, say they are looking into the media's role as a possible facilitator of the incident as right from the time the attackers entered the pastor's house with their faces covered till the end of the violent assault, TV cameras were rolling at the site of the incident.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can watch this attack on the IBN website. It's horrible to attack any other unarmed human being and even more horrifying is catching this on tape without doing anything to help the victim.
05-03-2007, 02:02 AM (This post was last modified: 05-03-2007, 02:11 AM by Bodhi.)
Yes sir. The IBN folks are rapidly becoming the most irrelevant channel even to the unalert eyes. Be it this episode, or Sabharwal case in Indore, or fake encounter of Gujarat, they go overboard. In the last month events of Bhopal, where, in two different incidents, Hindu girls had eloped with Muslims, and resulting backlash, the IBN put forth its star reporter. Guess who - a Suhasini Haidar - who proudly told her own story of how she married a Muslim, and how 'Bhagwa Talibans' were after them and so on.
From her blog:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"I wish to inform you that your daughter is registered to marry a Muslim" said the postcard addressed to my father, "If you are aware of it, please accept my congratulations. If you aren't please take necessary action." Other letters we received in the run-up to my wedding weren't as polite. http://www.ibnlive.com/blogs/suhasinihaida...-the-faith.html
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
CNN-IBN is complete useless, quality is horrible, they are worse than third rate tabloid.
There quality matches to street Bhanjies. Have you see discussion, no content except who can scream longer.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->You can watch this attack on the IBN website. It's horrible to attack any other unarmed human being and even more horrifying is catching this on tape without doing anything to help the victim.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same they did with Bihar man, who committed suicide in front of camera, they provided match-box.
Hey!! It should go into Humor thread, but Indian media will never disappoint anyone . Enjoy it!!! Happy hour.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>News channels add spice to 'suicide' drama </b>
Pioneer.com
Anand Prakash | New Delhi
It seems that the news channels in India have perfected the art blowing things out of proportion. On Thursday, they crossed all limits when they turned a suicide attempt by one disillusioned husband into something of a 'shoot out' or 'security breach' at the Prime Minister's doorstep. However, in this exercise they got what they wanted - eyeballs, though credibility was a casualty.
It all happened when one Kishorilal Sahni (42), miffed over his wife's alleged extra-marital relations, decided to kill himself in the vicinity of the Prime Minister's residence at 7, Race Course Road.
In the race to break the news, IBN7 without even verifying facts aired it as a shootout. Its anchor was heard asking her reporter whether it was a "security breach" in the PM House.
With Sahni's story gradually unfolding the channels also started lowering their pitch. The final story is like this: Kishorilal Sahni, after finishing his work, drew up a meticulous plan for his suicide. He drafted a suicide note and drove his Maruti Zen car to Jaipur Polo Club, 100 meters away from PM's official residence.
After shooting himself, he approached the police, who immediately rushed him to RML Hospital where he is said to be out of danger. Anand Mohan, DCP (New Delhi) said that since the "windows of the car were closed the sound of bullet could not be heard by policemen standing on the road." He added: "The suicide note clearly mentions that Sahni had a dispute with his wife which forced him to take this drastic step. The note also mentions about his wife's alleged extra-marital affair with one of his old associates."
Even as bits of the puzzle were put in place, the Star News went overboard and started to do a phone-in with the son of Kishorilal, Sandeep. But the funniest part was that the Sandeep turned out to be son of another Kishorilal. Incidentally, this Sandeep's father also had a white Maruti Zen car. Sandeep also did not disappoint the Television viewers; he shared many a "problem" in his family with the anchor. <!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Meanwhile, many relatives flocked Ram Manohar Lohia Hospital seeking details about Kishorilal.<b> One RK Sharma (65) was on the verge of collapsing after he learnt about his son-in-law's condition; but heaved a sigh when he learnt that this Kishorilal was not his relative</b>.
<b>Meanwhile, police are looking into the issue including the alleged SMS that were sent to Sahni by his wife's paramour threatening to kill him.</b>
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Spiritual gurus, babas, Godmen â they are known by many names and have become forces to reckon with when it comes to faith, specially in India where the lines between superstition and religion have blurred significantly.
But the faith has been maligned and many who claim to be Godmen, promising to rid lives of evil in the name of God have been proven close to evil themselves.
A CNN-IBN-Cobra Post investigation exposes the ugly side of some the most popular Godmen - Pilot Baba, a former Indian Air Force officer, Vedanti Maharaj, former BJP MP and Guruvayur Surya Namboodiri, who claims to be an astrologer â shattering the myth that surrounds Godmen of modern times.
There have been mixed reactions to the expose. While many have labeled the channel as âanti-religiousâ, the government has promised action against those found guilty.
However, the larger question remains if these religious gurus abusing the faith of their followers?
This was the topic of discussion on CNN-IBN special show In the Name of God conducted by Bhupendra Chaubey. In the panel to discuss the issue threadbare were Head of Gambhira Mutt in Vrindavan Acharya Srivatsa Goswami; Peethadishwar of Sumeru Math in Varanasi Narendra Nath Saraswati and former Income Tax commissioner Vishwa Bandhu Gupta.
Blame game or a cause for shame?
Call it a reflection on the deep-set rot within the religious fraternity or a spiritual defiance, Narendra Nath was unwilling to accept the findings of the expose, and chose to blame the media instead. âAs far as saints are concerned, their duty is devotion to God. But there are some elements that have brought bad name to us. While these saints are to blame for compromising on their piousness, media is equally to blame. The media has crossed its lakshman rekha (all limits),â he said.
But isnât seeing images of religious heads engaging in such illegal activities as money laundering a cause for shame? After all, this expose had more to do with corruption than religion. âThis is wrong, but trapping them (the Godmen) like this is also wrong. What they did was wrong but media is encouraging them and thatâs worse,â Narendra insisted..
Interestingly, CNN-IBN received hundreds of calls and messages from viewers who chose to label the channel âanti-religiousâ.
But is questioning a religious leader, who has been caught on camera accepting illegal money, equivalent to being anti-religious?
Srivatsa Goswami admitted that anything that goes against the law of the land is totally punishable. âUnfortunately I havenât seen your programme. But based on what I have just seen and on what you are talking with others, I will say that any act which in a violation of the laws of the land is not acceptable even if it is done by a religious person,â he opined.
However, Goswami also cautioned the media and cited the example of Mahatma Gandhi. âWhat I would say is that there is a spiritual dimension to the sting operation which is very important. Mahatma Gandhi â who was grounded in religion and was equally political â said one cannot justify the means because of the ends that one would achieve,â he said.
While the defence is well taken, isnât is also true that religion in India increasingly becoming an industry and Godmen such as these are misusing the faith?
Faith and Religion Inc.
Taxman Gupta was vehement in his opinions and insisted that these Godmen were nothing but money launderers. He also cleared the air on charitable institutions and the tax exemptions granted to them.
âThis has become a huge industry. We have calculated that Rs 10,000-Rs15,000 cr come to charities across India. Hardly three to four per cent goes to Tirupati or Vaishno Devi that have government intervention. Rest is all is being pocketed. Also, these sadhus tend to become charitable only for two reasons. One is that they require land from the Government. Now there is a stipulation that no state government can give you land unless it is registered with the Income Tax department. Number two, when the foreign money flows in. Now foreign money cannot come to a private organisations. So the I-T thing is compulsory,â he explained.
The sting operation also showed that these gurus were very confident of what they were doing. They knew their âbusinessâ like experienced conmen and not for a minute flinched.
Gupta explained that this happens because most of these Godmen are agents of international Hawala racketeers. He explained the modus operandi of these gurus in detail âI went through the entire interviewing process of all these babas. For us itâs an old hand. They are all in touch with international hawala racketeers, I can tell you that. These are agents of the racketeers and there is no such thing as cheques being issued. This is how they do it. Say X person exports diamond to Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Malaysia etc. He issued a cheque saying the diamonds are received and this has come as a part of a bsiness transcaction and a certain commission is charged for it. But here the custom officials are hand-in-glove and they never check what goes into the consignment. They are all in touch with Hawala operators,â he said.
While the Central Government has tried its bit towards bringing in a certain amount of transparency by attempting to amend the Foreign Contribution Act, the problem lies beyond it.
Perhaps the time has come for India as a country to look at its gurus. Perhaps itâs time for a country to realise the kind of spiritual leaders it is putting on a pedestal.
Across the country â not just in Hinduism but across religions - there is surfeit of people with dubious credentials who are now assuming the mantle of religious gurus.
âThere was always a time to look at the phenomena because religion is also a spiritual supermarket and our tradition has been very emphatic upon the qualities that a spiritual leader must possess,â said Goswami.
Final word: Whatâs the solution?
Here are the opinions of the panelists on possible solutions and the lessons learnt.
Narendra Nath: âAs far as Godmen as concerned, itâs their good deeds and devotion that matter. Ideally, Godmen should have an influence on politics and politicians, but when the vice-versa begins to happen, it makes gurus smaller in stature. So, the Godmen should direct politicians but not be directed by them.â
Narendra Nath said despite the expose he wouldnât mind sharing a stage with the likes of Vedantis if it comes to ânational issues.â. âIf media chooses to frame scertain people, what can we do?â he said.
Is this problem primarily because religion is so closely associated with superstition that people find it tough to question the Godmen?
Srivasta Goswami: Yes and no. Superstition is not the essential to religion and spirituality. Religion will never support anything thatâs incorrect.
So, is a solution possible?
Gupta: It is absolutely possible because I think the ball is in our âthe Finiance Ministryâs â court. Any organisation â business or religious â that has a receipt of over Rs 40 lakh has to get it audited. I am also talking about the madarssas that receive money from Saudi Arabia. Itâs not just about Hinduism. This mess is spread all over. Missionaries are also using a lot of money for conversion purposes. All religions do it.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Move over Afzal, Sohraduddin is now the new martyr. All means to effect martyrdom are fair and permitted. Take the cue of the (anti) Hindu, which dropped dung. Till the Gujarat government shamed it into eating the selfsame dung.
It is now clear, as the Gujarat Governmentâs response published here points out, that the 24-page document is not the Geetha Johri report. The Hindu retracts its front-paged assertion that the Johri report speaks of âcollusion of the State government'â and of the role of Mr. Amit Shah, Minister of State for Home; and also that it recommends a CBI enquiry. We deeply regret these serious errors in a story that drew on documents we relied upon in good faith. We agree that we should have verified the facts, especially those relating to the provenance of âFacts of the Case,'â before publishing the news stories.
From the above incidence I see a strategy to discredit the media and hence reduce their influence. The government should leak false information to media spies as sensational reports and they would trumpet the report because of their competition with other media. Once this blows over, the media will be maligned and people will stop taking them seriously. Media also will be scared to publish every report since they don't know what is true and what is false. To some extend, sensationalisation will die.
Naxal Ram's double standards:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In his address to the rally, Narasimhan Ram, the editor in chief of the English-language daily, The Hindu, said, "The cartoons are a sacrilege under the name of freedom of expression."
http://www.islamonline.net/English/Views/2...article05.shtml<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was on the Danish cartoons, the same b@st@rd writes about MF Hussain as follows:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"There is something terribly amiss about a social order that coerces a law-abiding 91-year-old artist â India's most celebrated painter â into leaving the country because of harassment by rank communalists and moral vigilantes. Surprisingly, instead of upholding the fundamental right to freedom of expression, some lower courts have been extraordinarily tolerant in entertaining the vexatious complaints"
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Dear all,
last night NDTV 24+7 carried an analysis of l'affaire Maran with Sanjay Pinto as anchor. I saw a familiar face and stopped in mytracks. his face was being projected as the expert of the episode.
This face, with a smile hovering between a smirk and a simper pinned to it, belonged to Father Jegath Gaspar. So now <b>NDTV 24+7 with its army comprising of Jennifer Arul, Sanjay Pinto and Sam Daniel in TN is now projecting Father Jagath Gaspar as a political commentator</b>.
NDTV 24+7 is following closley on the heels of its mentor Sonia Gandhi who significantly christianised the party machinery after her advent.
Now during the course of this news analysis, reference was made to Kanimozhi, Karunanidhi's daughter who, not to be left out of dynasty DMK politics, has also thrown her hat in the ring to give her brothers Stalin and Azhagiri a run for their money.
When reference was made to Kanimozhi the smirk on the good reverend's face slipped to make way for the simper. Kanimozhi has a cabin to herself, befitting her elite political connections, in The Hindu.
<b>Now Kanimozhi and the good reverend Gaspar were jointly in the t of promoting state-funded Christianised 'tamil' art originating in 'Kalaikaveri' in Tiruchi, a Christian art school pirating Hindu clasical Carnatic music, haratanatyam and the folk arts like the therukoothu.
In the course of the festival the good reverend openly supported the LTTE and spoke of them as being the sole representatives of the Tamils of Sri Lanka. </b>
Karunanidhi, after it was established that TN fishermen were killed by the LTTE (something i cld have told him 5 yrs ago), threatened to arrest Vaiko, another rabid LTTE supporter.
<b>Now his daughter's bosom friend, the good reverend Gaspar, is also publicly supporting the LTTE and its murderous ways.</b>
But just as the law of the land does not apply in TN to the obnoxious Azhagiri, it does not apply to Kanimozhi either for being accessory to the fact called Jagath Gaspar
<b>Now the witches brew in TN with dravidian politics, church and LTTE being given high media visibility by the Christian NDTV 24+7, is being stirred unchallenged and with impunity.</b>
Now add to this the fact that The Hindu cat doesnt know which way to jump - <b>it is perched perilouly on the wall that is ideologically close to the dravidian, christian, Marxist concoction but is also married in to the Maran family!!. </b>
Karunanidhi, trapped by his fondness for the witches brew, and also alerted by the brahminised AIADMK, used Azhagiri to protect his dravidian-christian-LTTE party. <b>He cleansed his party of the tainted by Brahmin blood Maran influence</b>.
Now we can all be one happy Periyar family again. See the rapid and meteroic rise of the good reverend, tux, gardenia-on-the-lapel et al.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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