Christian subversion and missionary activities

10-17-2006, 12:22 PM

Husky,

Amidst all this, there are certain things one can always learn from Christians:

1) Effective Administration

2) A strong business model

3) Terrific marketing

4) Military Force (to complement conversions)

5) Nepotism: A Christian Employer will always favor a fellow Christian, whereas a Hindu will be happy to see another Hindu go down the drain. It's been my personal experience too.
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There are probably many more, but Christians are experts in these areas, and Hindus should learn from them, rather than fight amongst themselves. So far, I've only observed hindus do one thing-fight another hindu, abuse him, attack him, favor christians/muslims over him, and so forth. Yet to come across a hindu who doesn't smile at another hindu's failure, what to speak of helping a fellow hindu.

If this sick, despicable attitude continues, hindus are only helping christians to succeed, albeit in a roundabout way.

10-17-2006, 01:41 PM

The correct link is

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?p...ar20&Found=true

10-20-2006, 01:58 AM

QUOTE'Don't celebrate Diwali'

Author: Archana Pushpendra
Publication: Mid-Day
Date: October 10, 2006
URL: http://mid-day.com/news/city/2006/october/144860.htm

Students at St Joseph's High School in Kandivli have been asked not to celebrate Diwali this year. Instead, the government-aided school has instructed each of its 1,400 students to pay Rs 5,000 as donation to the school fund!

This money, they say, will be used to reconstruct the existing school building. Std X students have even been warned that if they do not pay up, they will not be allowed to appear in the board examinations.

Several parents protested this decision yesterday. One of them said, "The management is so blunt about the whole affair. When we told them we couldn't afford it, we were asked to spend less on sweets and clothes this Diwali! They insisted that we have to cough up Rs 5,000 as donation."

Said another parent whose daughter is in Std X, "We didn't realise the gravity of the problem, as the circular carried only an appeal.

It was later that the school resorted to arm-twisting techniques and is now threatening to disallow our children from appearing in the board exams."

Parents disclosed that earlier too the school management had come up with weird ways of collecting money. "They made us buy onions and potatoes from the market and sold them to families of other children at higher prices!" a parent said.

Added another parent, whose child studies in Std VI, "If that was not enough, they made the students sell old newspapers and asked them to deposit the money in the school fund."

A parent added that the management also plans to give donation collection books to the students to collect 'funds' from their neighbourhoods.

"The school claims that it would offer lucky coupons to the donors and the winner will be given a prize. Isn't it funny that even the prize will have to be bought by us?" he said. Another added once he caught his son stealing Re 1 coin from his pocket.

"My son told me 'It is compulsory for students to deposit at least Re 1 every day in the school collection box.' So, he resorted to theft!" he said.

Internal matter

The school's principal Fatima Pereira told MiD DAY that this is an internal problem. "We will sort it out with parents and would not like to speak about it," she said. Arundhati Chavan, president of the school's PTA, said, being a government-aided school, the manner in which the school is seeking donations is illegal and that they would hold a meeting with the management soon.

Education Minister Vasant Purke said this 'donation' drive is illegal. "If the parents come to us, we will look into the matter," he said.

http://hvk.org/hvk/

The christo-desperados are at it again - this time twisting the arms of the school children to make them give more donations, so that they, the christos, can expand further and spread their 'good' word around.

10-20-2006, 03:22 AM

Is this true ?

http://www.jewsonfirst.org/06c/stinson_speech.pdf

QUOTEBut let me jump to the late 1970âs and early 1980âs. I spent four years in the southern Afârican nation of Botswana teaching theology and serving a Setswanaâlanguage church in an urban setting. Botswana borders South Africa, and over half the Tswana people live within South Africa itself. During my years there, South African apartheid was at its worst. Apartheid was not just a political concept; it was fundamentally religious. Stuâdents of all races and religions, Jews and Muslims,Â had to study âChristian Nationalâismâ in the public schools. Christian nationalism was the theological basis of racial separation. The South African state and South Africaâs Dutch Reformed Church worked sideâbyâside to establish and justify a system of white supremacy. The Wall of Separaâtion between church and state guarantees that here no one religious community can ever dominate our government.

10-20-2006, 03:49 AM

some info related to above

http://atheism.about.com/b/a/000887.htm

QUOTE"There are no political elements in our preaching. We are simply relaying what God says in his word," Van der Merwe says, sitting in his home office on a smallholding outside Kroonstad. His church building is a converted workshop on the same property. ... "You would not believe how our people (white Afrikaners) are awakening to the truth. "We have been bursting at the seams in the past six months. Extra chairs have to be carried into the church on Sundays," he says. "No government, police or defence force can stop what is happening, because it is part of God's plan for his covenant people."

The "truth" he is referring to is the belief that the world's white Protestants, including the Afrikaners, are God's chosen people, born to rule. They are seen as the only true descendants of Biblical Israel's 12 lost tribes, and thus the only people with whom God has concluded his holy covenant. Only they will be saved by God at the end, Van der Merwe and his followers believe. They dismiss the evolution theory, believing God created all nations in a predetermined order, which is not to be changed. And face it, "we were created the head nation, not the one at the tail end," Van der Merwe says.

10-21-2006, 06:28 AM

Interesting article on Hitler and his Christianity.

http://www.creationtheory.org/Essays/Hitler.shtml

10-21-2006, 07:52 AM

This is not related to India but this is happening everywhere in Chruch.

Experts: Priest in denial about behaviorQUOTEThe priest told the Sarasota (Fla.) Herald-Tribune that he and Foley "loved each other like brothers" and that although he taught Foley "some wrong things" related to sex, Mercieca insisted their interactions were innocent.

"It was just fondling," he told WPTV of West Palm Beach, Fla.

From the perspective of people who have worked with abusers and their victims, that thinking is typical of a molester. Offenders, who are sexually immature, commonly view their involvement with their victims as normal and are baffled when others see things differently
..........
...........
"It's common that offenders will block out major pieces of the events. I personally believe that it's also part of the denial process, where they just don't, frankly, want to remember," said the Rev. Stephen J. Rossetti, president of Saint Luke Institute, which provides psychological counseling to Catholic priests who suffer from a variety of troubles, including sexual attraction to children. "Those are typical kinds of statements of offenders who are not in recovery."

...............
"The things he's talking about are very sexually charged and they are sexual abuse," Rossetti said. "For an adult male to be with a young male naked in a bathtub or a shower would clearly be a major boundary violation in most cases â and also traumatic."

Husky · (This post was last modified: 10-21-2006, 12:14 PM by Husky.)

Mudy,
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,...14,00.html
Paedophile sues Catholic Church over alleged abuse (August 19, 2005)
QUOTEThe paedophile, who has not been named, claims that his life was ruined and his own crimes were shaped by the abuse that was inflicted on him by a Catholic priest, who he says is now a senior figure in the Catholic Church with responsibilities for child protection.
...
In a long interview on the Today programme this morning, the convicted paedophile, who has recently served five years in prison for three crimes committed against children, said that abuse he suffered in the early 1970s, when he was sixteen years old, was the foundation for his own crimes. He had looked up to the priest, he said, but his trust was betrayed. ... [He] claimed he had photographs showing him on holiday with his alleged abuser.
....
"I groomed my victims in exactly the same way as a Catholic priest groomed me. I know that this man has other victims simply because I'm a paedophile, just like he is."
...
This morning, the convicted paedophile said that he was determined to bring his case, which he said the Catholic Church was hoping would disappear.
"This is not going to disappear, I guarantee you, despite how long ago this was. They can't ignore the matter. If the public become aware of this Catholic priest there will be major tabloid headlines," he said.Of course, the Church is defending the priestly paedophile and denying it ever happened. Priestly paedophile is awarded with being placed in charge of Child Protection. (When there is any doubt about a priest, they ought to at least keep him away from children - let him take care of old Christian grannies or something instead.)

Christo paedophile creates another paedophile who creates another, etc. It's a vicious cycle that lasts even after the initial cycle.
Christian civilisation is swell indeed. They destroyed literacy and pluralism (Roman and Greek civilisations) to inaugurate the Christian era with paedophilia, other abuse, violence and terrorism.

- Books on the history of Christo abuse (it's endemic to ChristoIslamism)
A little further down, there are links to massive documentation on Christo abuse today
- Recent news of Christo abuse - shows how they are always covering up allegations and protecting the priests.
Sick, sick religion. Who will protect those children?

Bodhi · (This post was last modified: 10-21-2006, 05:43 PM by Bodhi.)

Court Asks Churches to Provide for Birth-Control Coverage The Associated Press | By MICHAEL GORMLEY | October 19, 2006
QUOTENew York's highest court ruled Thursday that social service agencies run by the Roman Catholic Church and other faiths must provide birth-control coverage to their employees even if they consider contraception a sin.

The 6-0 decision by the Court of Appeals hinged on whether Catholic Charities and the nine other groups are essentially social service agencies, not churches.

At issue was a 2002 state law that requires employers to provide health insurance coverage for mammograms, bone density screening and other preventive services for women, including prescription contraceptives. The law exempts churches, seminaries and other institutions with a mainly religious mission.

Catholic Charities and the other groups sued the state for an exemption but lost in the lower courts.

The organizations 'believe contraception to be sinful,' the Court of Appeals said. 'We must weigh against (their) interests in adhering to the tenets of their faith the state's substantial interest in fostering equality between the sexes, and in providing women with better health care.'

The New York Catholic Conference said it may appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.

'We think this has never really been about contraception. We think it was to target the church and open the door for coverage of abortion,' said Dennis Poust, spokesman for the Catholic conference.

http://www.topix.net/content/ap/1083428808...437662372771491

10-21-2006, 06:54 PM

Sex crimes and the Vatican: BBC World documentary

Please watch, if you have access to BBC World, the documentary: Sex Crimes and the Vatican. This documentary chronicles the details of the paedophile crimes by priests in the US, and the Vatican's attempt to cover up.

A nauseating account is that by an ex-priest, who was sentenced to 7 years in jail for pedophile activities in the US, end later deported back to Ireland, who gives the interviewer explicit details of how he preyed on boys and girls, and describes the type of children that he was particularly sexually drawn to, and the methods he would use to approach them to pave the way for sexual intimacy. The graphic accounts of many of the victims, who had been abused as children by their priests, are very painful to hear.

The horrifying thing is that many priests who were involved in pedophile activities in the US, and charged, were quickly transferred by their Bishops, with the full knowledge of the Church, to developing countries, in order to escape prosecution, thereby putting the children in these developing countries at great risk of being sexually abused by these pedophiles. Others, who are wanted in the US for child abuse, have run away to Italy, and are currently hiding in the Vatican, according to the documentary. The Vatican has refused to allow these priests to be deported to the US to face charges, and have provided sanctuary for them.

Do Indian christian ever get the chance to watch such documentaries? I am convinced that there is rampant sexual abuse of children by priests and nuns in Christian schools, orphanages and destitute homes throughout India; but who is going to investigate, and expose these crimes? Because the Indian converts are poor, and socially and economically defenseless, they can be easily bullied by their church into keeping their silence on the sexual misconduct of the priests â as was the situation for a poor family in Latin America - the mother, whose son was sexually abused by a priest, was unable to get justice, and was threatened, bullied, and coerced by the church to keep silent and to not press charges.

The Vatican is one sick institution (cult) that needs to be destroyed completely and all the sick perverts, who are hiding in there, flushed out, once in for all.

The synposis of the documentary is found here:
http://www.bbcworld.com/content/template_c...asp?pageid=2892

Husky · (This post was last modified: 10-21-2006, 07:49 PM by Husky.)

QUOTEThe Vatican is one sick institution (cult) that needs to be destroyed completely and all the sick perverts, who are hiding in there, flushed out, once in for all. It's not only the Vatican. It's all Christian denominations, the Protestant denominations included ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/D1.htm#Books ):
QUOTENews reports of ministers sexually abusing children - lists news articles of criminal acts of their clergy (over 800 offenders listed). Categories include Baptist, 'Bible Church' (evangelical), Episcopalian, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, and other (including Mormon).

Evidence and Statistics on Child Sexual Abuse Amongst Church Clergy, 1990-2000 - Australian site that has documented the Church's Child abuse record in Australia as well as other parts of the world. (These are only the cases that came to light between 1990 and 2000.) Abuse is a ChristoIslamic phenomenon - it is not just a frequent occurrence in Christoism, but also in Islamism. In Islamic countries, from Arabia to our own terrorist state next-door, abuse is rife. But the international media does not have access to the tales of Islam-inflicted misery and it tries to remain silent on many high-profile cases of Christo abuse as well.

The Vatican is not the institution that gave rise to this (it's only a subset). ChristoIslamism is. It has extreme and unnatural restrictions on normal human social interactions and normal behaviour. And these restrictions cause repression in the flock and erupt as disgusting ChristoIslamic practises.

QUOTEThe horrifying thing is that many priests who were involved in pedophile activities in the US, and charged, were quickly transferred by their Bishops, with the full knowledge of the Church, to developing countries, in order to escape prosecution, thereby putting the children in these developing countries at great risk of being sexually abused by these pedophiles. I only knew that within the US they transferred these predators to other parishes. So now they want to spread the ChristoIslamic disease to Africa, India and other places do they?

QUOTESex crimes and the Vatican: BBC World documentary
Please watch, if you have access to BBC World, the documentary... Don't watch. It will damage you knowing what this evil ideology of ChristoIslamism has wrought. Avoid. Indian and other Christos (and potential converts) should be made to watch it to learn what their religion is doing, though.
Us Dharmics, and followers of other natural religions deserve to be free of ever finding out about the despicable depths to which ChristoIslamism stoops.
Just read numbers and statistics - that's bad in itself, but knowing any more about this ChristoIslamic nightmare will only put one into a murderous rage.

Bodhi · (This post was last modified: 10-22-2006, 08:33 AM by Bodhi.)

QUOTEInterfaith marriage 'painful but gratifying' experience, says convert 

CHIANG MAI, Thailand (UCAN) -- When Vishwalingam Visagaran married Celine Fernandez, no challenge seemed too big for the Hindu groom and Catholic bride.Â Â

However, 16 years and two children later, their life remains challenging.

"Interreligious differences have taken a toll on us as a couple, but God has certainly been with us in our struggles and seen us through," Vishwalingam, now a Catholic, told participants attending the Asian Mission Congress, taking place Oct. 18-22 in Chiang Mai, about 700 kilometers north of Bangkok.

The more than 1,000 congress attendees, all but about 50 of them from Asia, are discussing The Story of Jesus in Asia: A Celebration of Faith and Life.

Vishwalingam and Celine were among five people who shared their faith experiences before the assembly on Oct. 19. Vishwalingam, whose Sri Lankan mother settled in Malaysia, narrated how he went from a staunchly traditional Hindu background to become a devout Catholic with the baptismal name Lawrence.

It all began when he met Celine while studying chemical engineering at a Malaysian university. "I fell in love with her instantly," he said.

However, religious differences and the need to uphold his family's reputation put him in a dilemma, he said, and his mother was planning to get him married to "a typical Sri Lankan Hindu girl on whom she could depend."

Much to his mother's displeasure, Vishwalingam followed his heart and married Celine. His family saw her as a threat because they never expected "an obedient son" to make "such a bold and drastic decision" and marry a Catholic.

On the other hand, he "truly loved" Celine and hoped to reconcile with his family some day. "It seemed so simple then, but the situation got worse after the marriage," Vishwalingam lamented.

His mother and his wife could not forgive each other for the hurts they endured, he said, and when his wife could not "give me the kind of support I had expected," he began to lose hope. Celine also suffered two miscarriages.

Despite all that, Vishwalingam freely chose to become a Catholic five years after he and Celine married because "I believe in Jesus Christ." But his conversion to Catholicism further alienated his family because they could not understand why he did so and "they hated my wife all the more."

His story helped illustrate for the congress attendees the trauma sometimes involved in interreligious dialogue. For example, he said the first question Celine asked when they fell in love was whether he would become a Catholic. Her question did not upset him, he pointed out, because he knew she had come from a conservative Catholic family. "But what I did not understand," he continued, "was the need for me to convert because I was not a bad person."

He attended classes on the Rites of Christian Initiation of Adults for some time, but soon gave it up because he found it quite confusing. He said that the stress of the course was more on teaching doctrine than on helping him understand how to translate it in actual life.

Then came the miscarriages. One day, a woman at the church told Vishwalingam that his wife would have a child if he "totally" surrendered to Christ.

He said he could never understand what he had to surrender. Besides, he had developed a personal relation with Lord Krishna, a Hindu deity, and believed that Krishna, like Christ, was an incarnation of God.

As his personal problems grew, however, he began to understand the meaning of Christ's suffering and his willingness to forgive people who hurt him. "That touched me because I was also undergoing the worst situation in my life," he said. Only then, he added, did he understand Christ and his message, and decided to surrender totally to Jesus, and this helped him develop a "very personal relation" with Christ.

He acknowledged he has faced a lot of temptations and sometimes succumbed to them but he asserted that he will never abandon Jesus Christ. Christian life is a continuous struggle to live Christ's message, he said.

In hindsight, Vishwalingam said, it was God's plan that he meet Celine and face all those trials. "God used all those incidents to bring me closer to him," he said. His experience was "painful but gratifying," he concluded, and he would do the same again under similar circumstances.

Celine later told UCA News she insisted on bringing up their children in a "totally Catholic" atmosphere because she believes that is her obligation as a parent. She said she would allow the children to live how they wish after they become adults. If they choose another religion when they reach that stage, she said she would not object, provided they have valid reasons.

http://www.theindiancatholic.com/newsread.asp?nid=4046


When he fell in love, the lady asked this guy if he will convert. And look at his reaction, he is sympathetic!! <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/furious.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='furious.gif' />

This is what happens if you raise your children as pseudo-Hindus.

She will raise their children in a "totally catholic" environment but "ALLOW" them to choose another religion... if they had VALID REASONS!!!

Bharatvarsh · (This post was last modified: 10-22-2006, 06:17 PM by Bharatvarsh.)

Well what do you expect when Hindus don't teach their kids anything about the value of their own faith and heritage, you end up with people like these, in the first place no Hindu should marry outside the community unless the other person converts because our religion is not some free for all thing and moronic attitudes in the name of broadmindedness are screwing our community. A couple of years ago I did read about a Muslim girl who ran off with a Hindu, now the guy seemed to not be the moronic type and married her and she reconverted and assumed a Hindu name, that should be model if any Hindu wants to marry some one who is a non Hindu. See many Hindus think that Muslims insisting that others convert to their faith when they marry a Muslim is a sign of backwardness/radicalisation or some other fancy liberal label you can think of but the way I see it Muslims are doing what they have to advance the interests of their community, what are Hindus doing to liberate ourselves from secular slavery and advance our interests?, that is the question we must ask ourselves, never bother about what the liberal crowd thinks because the liberals will be the first ones to go and hide when jihad starts and you will be the one left standing with your pants down.

Also we need to completely cut off people who leave the community, if they made a choice then we can also make a choice not to associate with them anymore, look at that Bobby Jindal, so many moronic Hindus probably supported him, we would have been better off supporting some gora since converts tend to be more nuts about Christ.

This was the case I was referring to:
QUOTEMuslim girl marries Hindu boy, seeks protection from court
Author: PTI
Publication: The Hindu
Date: June 30, 2004
URL: http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/00120...tion~from~court

A Muslim girl who married a Brahmin boy against the wishes of her parents has filed an application in the Allahabad High Court seeking protection following alleged threats by her family members.

Gulista (21), who converted to Hindu religion and changed her name as Gunjan, urged the court and the administration to provide security to her and husband Tankeshwar Upadhyaya (26) as her parents have allegedly threatened to kill them, police sources said.

Gulista left her parents home on June 13 and appeared again on June 24 after marrying Upadhyaya, declaring that she converted to Hinduism, the sources said.

Meanwhile, Gulista's parents lodged a complaint with the police against Upadhyaya. They also protested against the police along with their community members on June 19, the sources added.

http://www.hvk.org/articles/0704/38.html

10-22-2006, 09:22 AM

QUOTEAlso we need to completely cut off people who leave the community, if they made a choice then we can also make a choice not to associate with them anymore, look at that Bobby Jindal, so many moronic Hindus probably supported him, we would have been better off supporting some gora since converts tend to be more nuts about Christ. 
I Second.

I have seen some nut case. They are worst. Simple reason, lack of will and low self esteem.

agnivayu · 10-22-2006, 07:01 PM

We will never go the way of the Roman Empire as Xtian propaganda would imply. Infact, if you look closely, Xtianity may be on the brink of collapse in many parts of the world. In India, they have two things against them, their lower birth rates and higher AIDS rate (not suprising since Xtianity is against conservative behavior despite the rhetoric). Once Eurabia emerges, it will actually give Hindus a lot more breathing room against Xtian missionaries, as Xtian's and Muslims duke it out.

QUOTE(Mudy @ Oct 22 2006, 09:22 AM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTEAlso we need to completely cut off people who leave the community, if they made a choice then we can also make a choice not to associate with them anymore, look at that Bobby Jindal, so many moronic Hindus probably supported him, we would have been better off supporting some gora since converts tend to be more nuts about Christ. 
I Second.

I have seen some nut case. They are worst. Simple reason, lack of will and low self esteem.
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</div>

10-23-2006, 12:20 AM

QUOTEAlso we need to completely cut off people who leave the community, if they made a choice then we can also make a choice not to associate with them anymore, look at that Bobby Jindal, so many moronic Hindus probably supported him, we would have been better off supporting some gora since converts tend to be more nuts about Christ.

I agree. But the community is not an abstract thing. It is us, the Hindu gRuhastAs, the householders. We are the vanguard of Hinduism - our religion depends upon us to make the right choices. We cannot "outsource" the practices of our religion to temples, to mathas or to sannyAsis. We cannot insist that they be forbidden from temples and mathas, while "broad-mindedly" welcoming them into our homes and families.

So, it falls upon us to secure our families, our homes and our children from the influence of these people. Also, there is no logical or sensible way to cut off converts, while keeping personal friends among ordinary practitioners of other religions. We will have to keep all these people out of our lives: both those who are traditionally Christian and Muslim, and those who converted to these nonsensical monotheisms. We should explicitly make it clear to our families that associating with such people is unacceptable and harmful in the long term. We should warn our families to beware of them, just as we warn them to beware of drugs, smoking or alcohol.

Others may call it prejudice, narrow-mindedness, bigotry or discrimination. We should simply learn to live with such calumny. Or we will end up learning to "whole-heartedly accept change", in the words of Ravish.

Bharatvarsh · 10-23-2006, 07:00 AM

QUOTESo, it falls upon us to secure our families, our homes and our children from the influence of these people. Also, there is no logical or sensible way to cut off converts, while keeping personal friends among ordinary practitioners of other religions. We will have to keep all these people out of our lives: both those who are traditionally Christian and Muslim, and those who converted to these nonsensical monotheisms. We should explicitly make it clear to our families that associating with such people is unacceptable and harmful in the long term. We should warn our families to beware of them, just as we warn them to beware of drugs, smoking or alcohol.
Vishwas ideally that would be the case but you have to understand that the world is dominated at present by the monotheists, for example you can't expect someone in USA to never interact with a born Christian, even the most hardcore Muslim living in the West has to do it to get by, you have to understand that a convert is always more dangerous than someone who is born a Muslim or a Christian because a convert is more nuts, I will give you an example, I don't know if you came across this video on youtube of some Muslim convert denouncing dharma and talking crap, many Hindus thought that it was a fake video or something, actually its a fully authentic video and the guy in the video is some Bihari Brahmin who used to study at UFT (Uni of Toronto) at the same campus as I am studying now, this guy evidently got to know a Muslim girl and probably wanted to bang her in the beginning but she slowly turned him into a Muslim, soon the guy started to come to Uni with the full Islamic dress, last I heard he went to Saudi to study in some madrasa for a year, all this I got to know from my Hindu contacts who already graduated along with the nutter, the guy even had a sister evidently, can't imagine the shame and embarassment she had to go through because of the retard.

Now few born Muslims would be as crazy as that guy, so a convert is always more dangerous, when we come up with policies they should be feasible so that Hindus can follow them. You are right we can't expect others to disassociate, we have to also show the way bu cutting off converts but also never underestimate traitors among us, even if we do it there will always be traitors who act as their lap dogs, like I was saying, I know a few garbas here where they are letting in Muslims with allah chains, the only reason they come is to get laid by Hindu girls, now there are always a few hardcore Hindus around that want to stop this and sometimes they used to beat up these morons and you know what these organisers did, they called the cops on those Hindus and you know what the funny thing is, these organisers are the temple going crowd while the one's who take care of the beatings are usually the drunk crowd outside at the doors, that's one of the reasons I don't judge people by what they eat and drink because my experience is that I would rather have some Hindu who gets drunk occassionally but who stands up for defending Hindus than some regular bhajan singing guy who never does anything when others insult Hindus (aka Gandhi).

So you have to understand that in our community there is no dearth of traitors and there will always be someone who will stab us in the back but we have to go ahead and do what we gotta do for our community with the support we get.

10-23-2006, 07:57 AM

QUOTEVishwas ideally that would be the case but you have to understand that the world is dominated at present by the monotheists, for example you can't expect someone in USA to never interact with a born Christian, even the most hardcore Muslim living in the West has to do it to get by, you have to understand that a convert is always more dangerous than someone who is born a Muslim or a Christian because a convert is more nuts,

Remember, when I say "interact", I mean: not with your office colleague at work, not with the store clerk at the store, but making personal friends who are non-Hindu - at the home, picnic or party, etc. That is the sort of interaction that one must avoid. This is not too difficult, is it?

We are more annoyed with the convert because he explicitly rejects our faith. Yet, both the convert and the lay religious monotheist are equally dangerous. Who converted the convert? Usually, it is a pretty religious Christian or Muslim.

Bharatvarsh · 10-23-2006, 06:00 PM

QUOTERemember, when I say "interact", I mean: not with your office colleague at work, not with the store clerk at the store, but making personal friends who are non-Hindu - at the home, picnic or party, etc. That is the sort of interaction that one must avoid. This is not too difficult, is it?

We are more annoyed with the convert because he explicitly rejects our faith. Yet, both the convert and the lay religious monotheist are equally dangerous. Who converted the convert? Usually, it is a pretty religious Christian or Muslim.
Thanks for clearing up the misconception, I get what you are saying, about the convert, yes some hardcore missionary probably converted him/her but the convert will now try to outdo even the missionary in his zeal to spread his cult.

10-25-2006, 02:07 AM

QUOTEAsian Mission Congress 2006 - Statement
10/24/2006
'Telling The Story Of Jesus In Asia'
October 23, 2006

CHIANG MAI, Thailand (UCAN) -- More than 1,000 Religious and lay people who attended the first Asian Mission Congress (AMC) have committed themselves to helping others know about Jesus in an "Asian way" through stories and symbols.

The participants' pledge, reflected in a message issued at the end of the Oct. 18-22 gathering in Thailand, affirms the power of story telling as an "authentic path" of dialogue. "When God opens the door," their message says, they will "not be timid" to explicitly proclaim Jesus Christ as Savior.

Archbishop Orlando Quevedo of Cotabato, Philippines, secretary general of the Federation of Asian Bishops' Conferences (FABC), presented the message to the assembly on Oct. 22. The text, which he said is addressed to the People of God in Asia, reports on the content and mood of sharing, reflections, and celebrations throughout the AMC, whose theme was "The Story of Jesus in Asia: A Celebration of Faith and Life."

The text compares the gathering of lay people in mission work, catechists, family members, Church ministry workers and indigenous people with bishops, priests and Religious to the first disciples who were assembled on Pentecost.

"A spacious, sprawling hotel in Chiang Mai, northern Thailand, became the New Upper Room," Archbishop Quevedo read from the message at ceremonies ending the congress, which was sponsored by the FABC's Office of Evangelization.

He noted that Asians can retell Jesus' story in words and deeds as the first disciples did, and said this "witnessing through action" can be done through service, compassion, community building, tolerance and sacrifice.

The message cites stories of various religious perspectives on conflicts and tensions, and also lists social conditions that challenge the mission of evangelization in the continent.

Copies of the message were given to participants who came from countries in which the local bishops' conference belongs to the FABC -- Bangladesh, Brunei, Cambodia, India, Indonesia, Japan, Korea, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, Pakistan, Philippines, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Taiwan, Thailand and Vietnam.

Other Asian countries and territories with no bishops' conference also sent delegates -- East Timor, Hong Kong, Macau, Mongolia, Nepal, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. Joining them were priests and other observers from beyond Asia.

As part of the closing ceremonies, former strangers embraced and exchanged gifts before the closing Mass, led by Cardinal Crescenzio Sepe of Naples, Italy. Pope Benedict XVI had sent Cardinal Sepe as his envoy to the AMC.

More than 800 local men, women and children came for the closing Mass, which coincided with World Mission Sunday. Some wore national or tribal traditional dress, just as many AMC participants did.

The full text of the message follows:

TELLING THE STORY OF JESUS IN ASIA
The Message of the First Asian Mission Congress
Chiang Mai, Thailand, October 18-22, 2006

Jesus lives! Christ is Risen! Our Savior is with us; his life is our life. These affirmations capture our sentiments as the participants of the 2006 Asian Mission Congress. Gathered in Thailand, October 18-22, 2006, we express the same joyful faith as Christ's first disciples, who proclaimed: "I have seen the Lord" (Jn. 20:18); "It is the Lord" (Jn. 21:7); "It is true: The Lord has risen" (Lk. 24:34); "My Lord and my God" (Jn. 20:28). The first disciples rejoiced: their friend, their teacher, their prophet, their compassionate healer, their beloved was miraculously - mysteriously - alive. Fear and disappointment, trauma and devastation became faith and rejoicing. Who could have expected? Who would have dreamed?

Jesus comes personally to his followers. He calls them by name: Mary of Magdala, Thomas, Peter, James, John. They recognize him. He speaks words of peace and reconciliation. The disbelieving disciples are transformed. Yet, Jesus, the Crucified-Risen One, expands the dimensions of their faith. He challenges them further. He sends them on mission: "Go forth to every part of the world, and proclaim the Good News to the whole of creation" (Mk. 16:15); "Go forth and make all nations my disciples" (Mt. 28:19); "You are witnesses to all this" (Lk. 24:48); "As the Father sent me, so I send you" (Jn. 20:21). And so the disciples set out to tell the Jesus story. They go to places, near and far: James to Jerusalem, Peter and Paul to Rome, Thomas to India. Indeed, to encounter the Risen Lord is to be sent on mission.

In God's gracious providence, over 1,000 of us contemporary disciples of Jesus assembled for the first-ever Asian Mission Congress. A spacious, sprawling hotel in Chiang Mai, northern Thailand, became the New Upper Room. We gathered to share our experience, to tell our stories, to meet other disciples from across the vast Asian continent, from Lebanon to Japan, from Kazakhstan and Mongolia to Indonesia. We heard inspiring stories, too numerous to count, stories of life, faith, heroism, service, prayer, dialogue, and proclamation. An infectious mood of joy pervaded us. No one doubted the active presence of the befriending Spirit of God. Together we celebrated our faith and our life as disciples of Jesus through sharing, listening, praying, celebrating the Eucharist. The multiplicity of cultures and languages added light and color to the celebration of our one common faith.

This pastoral-catechetical congress explored a unique methodology of evangelizing: story-telling or faith-sharing. We listened to narratives about the elderly, families, youth, children and women, BECs. We heard perspectives from Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and the Tribals. Contemporary contexts were highlighted: Consumerism, Media, Migrants, and Interfaith Dialogue. How significant these are to the mission of evangelization in the present context of ethnic conflicts and religious tensions!

The Story of Jesus was the unique thread, weaving all these life experiences into one grand narrative. All the colors, peoples, languages, cultures, values, religions, and arts of Asia's peoples formed one grand tapestry. Lord, how marvelous are your ways! How deep your designs!

The world is full of stories. Human life is unimaginable without stories. Stories tell us who we are and they link us with other peoples, all across Asia and even throughout the world. Through them we explore life's deeper dimensions, including the mystery of our own being. Stories impact our life and our faith. They transform perspectives and values. They form community. Stories contain a hidden dynamism and transforming power, incalculably so when they emerge from experience. They are remembered much longer than lessons learned in school or books that are read.

Jesus was known as a story-teller. As a rabbi, a teacher, his favorite method of instruction was telling parables, insightful vignettes that revealed the depths of God's Reign. Who does not know the parable of the Good Samaritan or the Prodigal Son? Jesus' parables challenge us with new possibilities in our relations with God and all our brothers and sisters. Many might think of Jesus, who was born in Asia, as merely akin to the great Asian wisdom teachers, such as Confucius, Lao Tzu, and Gandhi. But more marvelously, we Christians believe that Jesus is the God who became Man, sent by the Father. He is God's love story in the flesh - God's Incarnate Story.

The Asian Mission Congress sought to enflesh many of the challenges found in Pope John Paul II's Ecclesia in Asia (EA): "narrative methods akin to Asian cultural forms are to be preferred. In fact, the proclamation of Jesus Christ can most effectively be made by narrating his story, as the Gospels do" (EA 20f). Pope John Paul II recommends following "an evocative pedagogy, using stories, parables and symbols so characteristic of Asian methodology in teaching" (EA 20g).

The local Churches in Asia can be faithful to Christ's mission mandate by telling and retelling the Jesus story both in words and effective deeds of service. Repeatedly, the Church communicates its faith that originates in its experience of Jesus. The Holy Spirit, the Great Storyteller, guides the Church in all situations to tell, especially through the witness of a transformed life: "what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked upon and touched with our hands"; it is none other than "the Word of Life" (cf. 1 Jn. 1:1). Mission means keeping the story of Jesus alive, forming community, showing compassion, befriending the "other," carrying the Cross, witnessing to the living person of Jesus.

The disciples on the road to Emmaus observed: "Did we not feel our hearts on fire as he talked with us on the road and explained the scriptures to us (Lk. 24:32)?" For us, the way to Chiang Mai has become our Emmaus road. At the Mission Congress we shared our experiences of faith. Stories from Bangladesh and Hong Kong, from Thailand and China, from Japan and Nepal - from all across the Asian continent - set our hearts on fire. Echoes of Ecclesia in Asia resounded loudly: "A fire can only be lit by something that is itself on fire" (EA 23b). The Church in Asia is to be "a community aflame with missionary zeal to make Jesus known, loved and followed" (EA 19a). Jesus casts fire on the earth and prays that it be ablaze (cf. Lk. 12:49). "The Church in Asia shares his zeal that this fire be re-kindled now" (EA 18c). We know that our 2006 Mission Congress, sponsored by the Federation of Asian Bishops' Conferences and its Office of Evangelization, thanks to the Holy Spirit, was able to set many hearts ablaze.

The Asian Mission Congress, particularly the exchange of our faith-stories, has provided new perspectives for our task of dialoguing with the peoples (especially the poor), the religions, and the cultures of Asia (cf. FABC V: 3.1.2). The stories of Asia's poor today (beggars, people living with AIDS, migrants, the outcasts) must be read within Jesus' story and his Paschal Mystery. Asia's many venerable religions may be seen within God's universal design of salvation - that all would be saved (I Tm. 2:4). The riches of Asian cultures can be a most suitable vehicle for communicating the Jesus story. This task has "a special urgency today in the multi-ethnic, multireligious and multi-cultural situation of Asia" (EA 21b). The insightful "triple dialogue" promoted by the FABC for over three decades can be accomplished in "new and surprising ways" (EA 20f) - one of which is in the exchange of gifts through the sharing of our life's story.

At this First Asian Mission Congress we rediscovered the "joy of evangelization," Pope Paul VI's words ring true; effective mission is to be done "with ever increasing love, zeal and joy" (Evangelii Nuntiandi, EN 1). Jesus' disciples must "proclaim with joy the Good News which one has come to know through the Lord's mercy" (EN 80).

We, the Congress participants, commit ourselves to carry home to our own communities new insights into the story of Jesus, particularly its Asian dimensions. We seek to be on fire, ready to bring home vivid and inspiring stories, which could light the flame of mission in young hearts. We wish to follow Jesus' words to the possessed person (the scriptural passage we adopted at the Congress): "Go home to your own people and tell them what the Lord in his mercy has done for you" (Mk. 5:19).

We seek to approach evangelization in an Asian way, an evocative way through stories, parables and symbols, a method so characteristic of Asian pedagogy, as Pope John Paul II has so perceptively noted. It is, therefore, a way of sharing our faith with others, an authentic path of dialogue. Still we who believe in this distinctive approach to evangelization, will also "not be timid when God opens the door for us to proclaim explicitly the Lord Jesus Christ as the Savior and the answer to the fundamental questions of human existence" (FABC V: 4.3). On this World Mission Sunday we thank the Lord of the harvest for the countless missionaries who have come to serve in Asia through the centuries. We prayerfully commend to the Lord's love and protection the thousands from Asia who now serve in various parts of the globe.

We beseech Mary, our Mother and the Star of Evangelization, to intercede for us that our hearts may remain on fire with love of Jesus her Son, whose story we shall tell and retell through words, deeds and the witness of our lives.

END

Reproduced by Konkani Catholics

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