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Sanskrit - 2
a basic question to gurus.


Why "r" and 'l' are part of vowels, and there is no long-a (A) and no long-o (O)s in Sanskrit.

Thanks. You may delete this question, if it sounds too silly. I can take answers elsewhere.
Quote:Why "r" and 'l' are part of vowels, and there is no long-a (A) and no long-o (O)s in Sanskrit.

The r and l you mention do not have phoenetic equivalents in English so I don't know how to explain but ra and la are consonants.

There is a long "A" in sanskrit, check the letter right after a it has a line on top of it, that's long A.

I don't know why Sanskrit doesn't have short o's and e's (not long-o). The o and e are pronounced how you would pronounce the long e and o in southern languages so Sanskrit lacks short e's and o's. If you want to write Telugu in the Roman script you write dEsam for country (because there is a short e in Telugu) but in Sanskrit written in Roman script you just write desha. Perhaps the shorter e's and o's were lost similar to how La the retroflex of la is no longer used in Sanskrit but is used in Southern languages.
Yes, I meant long E, and not long A (long .."yea" ). [ -> ऐ]. There is nothing like [i->"ai" [size="7"][Image: _aai.gif][/size] ] as well.

on the r and l; since it was part of the vowel.


Also: From a vocal tract/constriction point of view, why these letters are part of vowels, was my question?
[quote name='Bharatvarsh2' date='13 May 2010 - 02:44 AM' timestamp='1273698364' post='106347']

The r and l you mention do not have phoenetic equivalents in English so I don't know how to explain but ra and la are consonants.

There is a long "A" in sanskrit, check the letter right after a it has a line on top of it, that's long A.

I don't know why Sanskrit doesn't have short o's and e's (not long-o). The o and e are pronounced how you would pronounce the long e and o in southern languages so Sanskrit lacks short e's and o's. If you want to write Telugu in the Roman script you write dEsam for country (because there is a short e in Telugu) but in Sanskrit written in Roman script you just write desha. Perhaps the shorter e's and o's were lost similar to how La the retroflex of la is no longer used in Sanskrit but is used in Southern languages.


svara-s, the vowels, are those sounds that can be produced without a "motion during the sound", that is, by bringing lips/tongue to a particular shape/position, keeping these static there, and producing sound from the throat. Try 'a', then i, then e, etc. all that changes is the shape and opening of the lips. These are simple svara-s. Then there are some svara-s like R^i and LR^i - these too pass this definition. Sound of R^i is different from vya~njana r. in R^i, one curls the tongue upwords to nearly touch the roof of the mouth, keep it there, and then produce sound from the throat. Others like LR^i are similar, only the placement of the tonugue-tip differs. Some other relatives of this sound such as dIrgha R^i and dIrgha LR^i are although still found on devanAgarI table, they are no longer commonly used.

about e/E/ai: saMskR^ita genrally follows shuddha svara-s, but in its deshaja and apabhraMsha relative languages, mixed- or semi-svara-s are also present. one might identify such semi- or compond- svara-s in that they are produced by a slight change in the shape of lips while from the beginning to end there is no other motion. Example is the first sound in the hindi word 'aura' ('and') -- here one first says 'a', then changes the opening and shape of the lips without a pause to say 'o' (and then ra). This kind of semi-svara-s is to be found prevailing in all other deshaja languages too. Whereas in saMskR^ita, what would be more comon is shuddha-svara-s with sound as of the first syllable in 'OShadhi' (different from 'au'). As far as desha/dEsha is concerned, as far as I can see there is no difference in the phonetics of the word between saMskR^ita and telugu, neither of these pronounce e in desha as dIrgha, so I dont know why the ITRAN representation should be any different for the word in the two languages.
Thanks for the explanation Bodhi.

About desha, perhaps I should try to explain better.

If you may remember in Telugu debba means stroke/injury. This you pronounce with the short e.

When it comes to desam to a person who speaks telugu, the e here would sound long. Now I don't know how ITRANS works but to distinguish between the two I use the capital letter "E" when i write dEsam where as I use the small "e" when I write debba in roman script.

Here is how a Telugu dictionary writes the 2 words:

Quote:debba n. blow, stroke; tupaaki ~ gunshot; ~ ku dayyam wadilindi or ~ ku dayyam digiwaccindi the blow (that he received) brought him to his senses (lit. as a result of the blow, the evil spirit left him).


Quote:deeśam n. 1 country, motherland. 2 land, region.


This dictionary doesn't use ITRANS, the only difference between the dictionary and me is that I prefer to capitalize the e instead of using two small e's to write desam.

I guess another way to write the two is this way:

Quote:దేశము (p. 0608) [ dēśamu ] dēṣamu. [Tel.] n. A country, land, territory;


Quote:దెబ్బ (p. 0607) [ debba ] debba. [Tel.] n. A blow, a stroke.


In the second dictionary they just put a line over the "e" for desam. I am guessing that they would not put such a line over e in a sanskrit dictionary when they write desha.

Hope that clarifies things.
I now see what you meant. Of course it is somewhat more noticable in telugu that the duration of svara-s are quite musically utilized. Not that saMskR^ita or hindi don't do this, but telugu does it more. In devanAgarI the notation used to represent an elongated usage of svara is a character looking ike 'S'; and if the svara is to be sudden-terminated in mid-word the visarga ":" (in ITRAN 'H') is used. However in recent times one finds that in devanAgarI print these are losing ground and these days may be seen almost limited only to the context where these are required for technical subject matter such as recording musical notes or highlighting meters of a cHanda/kavitA etc. That was not the case in old prints where like telugu hindi also used to have the similar demarcation for long and short spoken svara-s. But then telugu has the moe stringent requirements for it to preserve its famous melodiousness.
Hindi is gaining popularity among Germans over the once popular Sanskrit, with more and more of them preferring India's national language as the best medium of communication with a large section of the Asian community.

“Hindi and Sanskrit are being taught in several cities of Germany, including universities in Heidelberg, Leipzig, Humboldt and Bonn, for a few decades now. But off late, there has been a reduction in the number of those wanting to study Sanskrit,” Ashutosh Agarwal, First Secretary of Indian Embassy, told PTI-Bhasha here. http://www.thehindu.com/news/article615719.ece
Ithkuil is a constructed language marked by outstanding grammatical complexity, expressed with a rich phonemic inventory or through an original, graphically structured, system of writing.

The language’s author, John Quijada, presents Ithkuil as a cross between an a priori philosophical and a logical language designed to express deeper levels of human cognition overtly and clearly, particularly in regard to human categorization, yet briefly. It also strives to minimize the ambiguities and semantic vagueness found in natural human languages.

The many examples from the original grammar book show that a message, like a meaningful phrase or a sentence, can usually be expressed in Ithkuil with fewer sounds, or lexically distinct speech-elements, than in natural human languages. J. Quijada deems his creation too complex and strictly regular a language to have developed “naturally”, but nonetheless a language suited for human conversation. No person is hitherto known to be able to speak Ithkuil fluently.

The Sapir-Whorf hypothesis postulates that a person’s language defines their perceptions and cognitive patterns. Stanislav Kozlovsky proposed, in the Russian popular-scientific magazine Computerra, that a fluent speaker of Ithkuil, accordingly, would think “about five or six times as fast” as a speaker of a typical natural language. One may also argue that, Ithkuil being an extremely precise and synthetic language, its speaker would, under the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, have a more discerning, deeper understanding both of everyday situations and of broader phenomena, and of abstract philosophical categories.
Sanskrit Literature

Bringing Sanskrit literature to a wider global audience


Quote:Namaskaarams to all!

I visited the just concluded World Sanskrit Book Fair at Bangalore and went around the fair on all the four days. It was amazing to find that many samskrita enthusiasts, and especially, youngsters of all colours and bearings!

I experienced some problems which I am sure almost many would vouchsafe. Hopefully, the concerned authorities will look into it and try to minimize it if not wipe it altogether :

1. The area for the Book stalls was undoubtedly small considering the huge turn outs on all the four days. Perhaps the organizers wouldn't have expected such a large attendance.

2. The book stalls where the publishers had displayed their books were congested. A larger stall size will be an eye-catcher.

3. The passage area being narrow there was invariably push-arounds all the time. You could not see the books properly, let alone decide to buy them. There was literally shoulder-clash everywhere.

4. Even the people who bought the books, were seen just bundling their choice without bothering about their utility vis-a-vis their knowledge levels. You practically had no time to decide.

5. I thought the crowd may be less in the evening hours when there was manoranjan karyakrama. But alas, I had no luck that time also.

6. The only day I could somewhat freely move about was the last day. Bad luck here again! The stalls wore an empty look, most of the books having been sold out.

7. Some of the book sellers and publishers I talked to, especially, Sarawathy Mahal Library of Tanjore, and Parimal publications, had openly admitted that they did not anticipate such crowds and had brought only few samples of books.

8. The Exhibition was an eye opener for any proud Indian! How wide the eyes and mouth of the school children and college students opened, perhaps their hearts too, you should have been there to believe!

9. The rest room facilities, of course, could have been better. But given the temporary nature of arrangements, it was the best. The Green Buckets could have been more and maintenance still left much to be desired!

10. Finally, the Indian Motherhood was at its best! What I mean the food arrangements for the delegates and visitors, couldn't have been better! ( Do we not equate 'Anna Dhata' with the Motherhood?)

On the whole, we had a sense of seeing the Real Bharat!

Three cheers to Samskrita Bharati! You have won the hearts of one and all!

A Proud Indian


Photos of the fair:

New Zealand school teaches Sanskrit and claims it helps children understand English

NEVADA (US): A school in New Zealand has a 'Sanskrit Language Studies' programme and claims that learning Sanskrit accelerates a child's reading ability.

Ficino School in Mt Eden area of Auckland (New Zealand) calls itself a 'values-based academic institution' and offers education for girls and boys from year one to eight. It says about Sanskrit: "It has a wonderful system of sound and grammar, which gives the child an excellent base for the study of any language. Children love its order and beauty."

Distinguished Hindu statesman Rajan Zed has applauded Ficino School for fostering universal virtues and encouraging Sanskrit studies and adds that Sanskrit has a close relationship with other classical languages like Latin, Greek, French, German, etc.

According to Peter Crompton, principal of this school founded in 1997, where curriculum includes "food for the mind, food for the spirit, food for the body", "Sanskrit with its almost perfect grammatical system...provides children with a roadmap for understanding English." Sanskrit not only gives young learners a clear understanding of the structure of language, it also heightens their awareness of the process of speech, creating a greater understanding of and ability to, enunciate words clearly, Crompton adds.

Zed, who is President of Universal Society of Hinduism, in a statement in Nevada (USA) today, pointed out that Sanskrit should be restored to its rightful place. It needed to be brought to the mainstream and hidden scientific truths in ancient Sanskrit literature should be brought to light, he said.

Rajan Zed strongly criticized India Government for not doing enough for Sanskrit language. He asked India Government to do much more for the development, propagation, encouragement and promotion of Sanskrit in India and the world, which was essential for the development of India and preservation of its cultural heritage. Sanskrit also provided the theoretical foundation of ancient sciences.

Besides Hindu scriptures, a vast amount of Buddhist and Jain scriptures were also written in Sanskrit, which is known as "the language of the gods". According to tradition, self-born God created Sanskrit, which is everlasting and divine. The oldest scripture of mankind still in common use, Rig-Veda, was written in Sanskrit, Zed added.

Mahatma Gandhi said, "Without the study of Sanskrit, one cannot become a true learned man." German philologist Max Muller added, "Sanskrit is the greatest language of the world."



^ German, French, even Latin are far more useful for understanding English. So that can't be the real excuse behind teaching Samskritam to native English-speakers.^

1. deccanherald.com/content/164118/sanskrit-university-come-up-magadi.html

Quote:Sanskrit University to come up in Magadi

Last updated: 25 May, 2011


The State government has zeroed in on Magadi taluk in Ramanagara district to set up the campus for Sanskrit university.

The State Cabinet, which is meeting on Thursday, is likely to approve 100-acres of land in Thippasandra village in Magadi taluk for setting up the university.

There are 14 Sanskrit colleges in the State, which are affiliated to the university. At present, the university is functioning on the campus of the Sri Chamarajendra Sanskrit College in Bangalore.

Ramanagara district will have two universities with the government having taken a decision to shift the Rajiv Gandhi University of Health Sciences (RGUHS) from Bangalore to Ramanagara.

An official said there was no significance in Magadi being chosen to house the Sanskrit university campus.

The revenue department had agreed to provide land for the campus, he added.

Other decisions that are likely to be taken by the Cabinet include reimbursement of fee of Rs 10,000 to unaided engineering, architecture colleges where poor meritorious students were admitted for undergraduate courses as per consensual agreement 2010-11.

The Cabinet is likely to approve revised AICTE pay scale to teaching staff of government ayurveda, unani and homeopathy medical colleges

The Cabinet is also likely to give administrative approval for providing water supply to Byagadi town and enroute villages from Tungabhadra river at a cost of Rs 28.05 crore and also give approval for providing water supply to Sagar town and enroute villages from backwaters of Sharavathi river at a cost of Rs 54 crore.
Post 1/

Older news. May already have been archived by someone at IF long ago, I haven't checked.


Quote:Friday, Jun 17, 2005

Govt. to close down Sanskrit college

Nagesh Prabhu

Inadequate number of students cited as the main reason for the move

(Oh, a secular sounding reason! Christos in India and the christowest as well as alien dabblers/oryanists keep their efforts invisible.)

END OF THE LINE: Chamarajendra Sanskrit College in Bangalore — Photo: Sampath Kumar G.P.

BANGALORE: There appears to be few to speak up for the cause of Sanskrit. The Government has decided to close down one of the very few Sanskrit colleges it runs in the State, Sri Chamarajendra Sanskrit College at Chamarajpet in Bangalore.

For decades the college has been imparting knowledge of the ancient Vedas and Shastras. But today there is a fall in the number of takers for the courses offered by the college. However, the number of students in the college is not inconsiderable considering that there are a good number of departments in universities in the State with fewer than 10 students in the MA or M.Sc. courses.

(Can note how there is no pretence in India's traditional=native Skt colleges that Samskritam is somehow separate from the Vedam/Shaastras, i.e. Vedic religion. <- This observation of the well-known is relevant to subsequent posts.

Rather, a separation btw Skt and the Vedic=Hindoo religion is a deliberate and recent invention of christoism AND alien dabblers - with indologists occurring in both groups - not to mention western foreign policy on India. It's also the source for denying Hinduism/Vedic religion is a religion and denying the word Hindu. Then again, that's something Buddhists and Jains do a lot too today. They only acknowledge "brahmanism" and deny there is a Hindoo laity or a religion - the Hindoo=Vedic religion/Sanatana Dharma etc - that all Hindoos adhere too, regardless of whether they are laity or brahmana or non-brahmana Siddha, Sadhu, Yogi or other Vedic yati/shramana.)

So far the only organisation to protest against the move to close down the institution is Sanskrit Bharati.

The college, founded in 1940 by the then Dewan of Mysore, Sir Mirza Ismail**, offers courses in the Vedas and the Shastras. About 190 students are on its rolls and it has 29 members of the staff. The Government's move to close down the college or merge it with Sri Maharaja Sanskrit College, Mysore, has come as a shock to the staff and received a lot of flak from Sanskrit scholars.

(** Note at end)

The Education Department discussed the issue of closing down the college at a meting held recently. The inadequate number of students for the various courses offered in by college is cited as the main reason for the Government's move.

The contribution of the college in the field of Sanskrit education is quite significant. Sri Balagangadharanath Swamy of Adichunchanagiri Mutt, Sri Shantaveera Mahaswamy of Kolada Mutt, Sri Shivarudra Swamy of Beli Mutt, Sri Shivapuri Swamy of Omkara Mutt, and scholars such as Srinivas Gopalacharya, Vidwan Ranganath Sharma and Vidwan N.T. Srinivas Iyengar were students of the college.

The college has invited applications for admissions for the current year. The Principal, B.L. Manjunath, says the college offers Prathama (three-year), Kavya (two-year), Sahitya (three-year) and Vidwat (five-year) courses. The Rigveda, Krishna Yajurveda, Shukla Yajurveda and Samaveda are taught in the college. There is no age bar or admission fee. Candidates who do not have any formal education can also join the preliminary classes.

A Vidwat course is equivalent to an MA degree. Unfortunately, there is no Government Order recognising the degrees provided by the college.

Satyanarayana Bhat of Sanskrit Bharati says the Government should set up a Sanskrit Directorate or Sanskrit University to give an identity to Sanskrit courses.

The 65-year-old college building requires major repairs and renovation. But it does not receive funds to maintain the building. The infrastructure is inadequate and this will have an adverse impact on the overall academic environment, say staff members.

A couple of years ago, a proposal was prepared for the construction of a hostel but no action has been taken, Mr. Bhat says.


The Government provides scholarships for students. But the amount is meagre: Rs. 47 for students of the Prathama course, Rs. 50 for the Kavya course and Rs. 150 for the Vidwat course.

(Can see how christoterrorism in India deliberately murdered the Skt school by giving pennies as "scholarship".)

To attract more students, the Government should provide facilities such as computer education and a good library the teachers say.

** On this

Quote:The college, founded in 1940 by the then Dewan of Mysore, Sir Mirza Ismail,

Is this another Chindu-ism? For how can that be? 'Cause the college appears to have been around much longer than 1940, as per Karnataka Skt University website, see below. Back when Mirza Ismail was just 2 -in 1884/1885- and hence long before he became one of many successive dewans (Mirza became dewan in 1926) to then Maharaja Krishnaraja Wodeyar, the college already existed under Krishnaraja's father Maharaja Chamarajendra Wodeyar (who the college was re-named for to the present name shortly after his passing, as well as acquiring a new building, in 1896):

Quote:Sri Chamarajendra Samskrita Graduation and Post Graduation Centre is one of the oldest Sanskrit colleges in the state. It was established as 'Vaani Vidyashaalaa' in 1885, with the collaboration of the Education department and many Sanskrit lovers. It used to impart education in Alankara, Veda, Yoga and various shaastras. It was renamed as 'Vaani Sanskrit College' in 1889, and an administrative council was set up to ensure availability of better facilities for study. The college got a new building, and a new name as 'Sri Chamarajendra Sanskrit College' in 1896. It developed with the monetary help received from the Mysore court, and also various mutts.

So how is the muslim dewan to have "founded" it in 1940, when it already existed for about a half-century at that point?

[Enough with catholic Chindu's typically revisionist pretences at christoislamic "composite culture" in India:

Even if by some coincidence another Skt university in Karnataka was alluded to under the same name ('Chamarajendra Sanskrit College'), can use common sense: the fact would still remain that the Dewan would have been acting as a representative of the Hindu maharaja Krishnaraja Wodeyar and thus carrying out the instructions to build Maharaja's commissioned Skt college. Besides, why would Mirza found a Skt college named after Chamarajendra - a king he didn't even know? Whereas the same need not be asked of the Hindoo Majaraja Krishnaraja, since he would have known his father Chamarajendra.]
Post 2/

Over at the Rajeev2004 blog, "Pagan" - formerly known as "Inferno" I think - often links (usually approvingly/with endorsement) to aliens dabbling in Samskritam and even the Vedam. Such as a British christian college - santa something or other - having kids chant-shant veda mantras in sanskript, or some all-alien conclave belting/belching out the Sri Rudram. (There's also an all-nude pooja for Shiva by aliens, where men and alien women get to meditate on - and apparently do 'pooja' to - Shiva in their buff (=in the nude), and which seems to be intensively popular among new-ageists and converts. "Pagan" hasn't recommended that one just yet.)

But here's the latest item he did bring up, not sure if he posted it to recommend it:


Quote:Sanskrit in Germany: 14 universities teaching India's ancient language struggle to meet demand as students clamour for courses

Which links to:


Quote:Sanskrit fever grips Germany: 14 universities teaching India's ancient language struggle to meet demand as students clamour for courses

By Aditya Ghosh

Published: 22:24 GMT, 14 April 2015 | Updated: 22:24 GMT, 14 April 2015

Will Germans be the eventual custodians of Sanskrit, its rich heritage and culture? If the demand for Sanskrit and Indology courses in Germany is any indication, that’s what the future looks like.

(So writes the useful idiot Indian "Aditya Ghosh" with pride. Again, look how Sanskrit has its own culture now, devoid of its religion - even in the mouth of an Indian proud of it being stolen by the mlecchas, even as they are very busy murdering Samskritam and its intimate connections to Hindoo heathenism in India. E.g. the effects can be seen in news item #1 above.)

Unable to cope with the flood of applications from around the world, the South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, had to start a summer school in spoken Sanskrit in Switzerland, Italy and - believe it or not - India too.

(Now the alien demons have started planting their IE poisons in Skt education in India.

People really should investigate if there is a direct proportional relationship btw an increase in indological=alien skt/'Vedic' text education in India and the decrease in traditional=Vaidika skt education in India like closing of Hindoo Skt colleges imparting the Veda. I am certain the relationship exists.)

"When we started it 15 years ago, we were almost ready to shut it after a couple of years. Instead, we had to increase strength and take the course to other European countries," said Professor Dr. Axel Michaels, head of classical Indology at the university.

[photo caption:] The summer school in spoken Sanskrit at the South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, is attended by students from all over the world

(Photo of useful idiot Indian traitor teaching mlecchas Samskritam in Germany - the same mlecchas who openly declare, even in this very same article, how anti-Hindu they are, including denying Samskritam's inseparable connection to Hindoo heathenism.)

In Germany, 14 of the top universities teach Sanskrit, classical and modern Indology compared to just four in the UK. The summer school spans a month in August every year and draws applications from across the globe.

“So far, 254 students from 34 countries have participated in this course. Every year we have to reject many applications,” said Dr. Michaels.

Apart from Germany, the majority of students come from the US, Italy, the UK and the rest of Europe.

[photo caption:] Professor Dr. Axel Michaels, Head of Classical Indology at the University of Heidelberg, says students from 34 countries have taken the course

Linking Sanskrit with religion and a certain political ideology was "stupid" and "detrimental to the cause" of its rich heritage, the professor said.

"Even the core thoughts of Buddhism were in the Sanskrit language.
To better understand the genesis of oriental philosophy, history, languages, sciences and culture, it’s essential to read the original Sanskrit texts as these are some of the earliest thoughts and discoveries," he added.

(Note how the mlecchas - eager to acquire samskritam, as they are the Vedam - deny that Samskritam is associated with "religion". They won't name the religion of course. Indologists insist it does not exist, after all. They will name Buddhism naturally, and will use it to pretend all religions should have an equal claim on Skt.

Anti-Hindoo-ism is also seen in how they allude - without naming it - to "a certain political ideology". I.e. Hindu nationalism. It is left unnamed because it has the word "Hindu" in it. Not only are Hindus allowing these anti-Hindu alien demons to "learn" Skt, to let aliens steal it for themselves - the SAME people are busy killing Hindu heathenism in India, closing down Veda pathashalas and Skt colleges in India and fighting "Hindu nationalism" - Indians are even teaching the alien demons. A great many are indologists, others are dabblers. All - being encroachers - are terrorists against Hindoo=Vedic religion. But stupid modern "Hindu" Indians will be so proud.

BTW, many core thoughts of Buddhism are in some Prakrita and originally in Prakrita. So the claim "Even the core thoughts of Buddhism were in the Sanskrit language" is untrue unless it means all such core Buddhist thoughts were eventually translated into Skt. In any case, Skt was never Buddhism's language, no more than the fact that christian missionaries who had earlier penned the babble in Skt, and recent Indian christos having created christo stutterings "jeebus sahasranamam etc" in Skt, makes Samskritam an "equally" christian language.)

Francesca Lunari, a medical student who has been studying Sanskrit at Heidelberg University, agreed.

"I am interested in psychoanalysis and must know how human thoughts originated through texts, cultures and societies. I will learn Bangla also to decipher the seminal works of Girindra Sekhar Bose, a pioneer of oriental psychiatry who has hardly been studied – even in India. Learning Sanskrit is the first step," she said.

Languages such as Bangla, in which Bose had written his theories challenging Freud, might face a crisis similar to Sanskrit because of the onslaught of English if these languages aren’t preserved within households, felt Dr Hans Harder, head of the department of modern South Asian languages and literatures (modern Indology), Heidelberg University.

"A significant part of the global cultural heritage will become extinct if major languages like Hindi and Bangla fall prey to Indian English which, in the process, has only got poorer," he added.

(Like I said: modern Indians, dumping their mother tongues to focus exclusively on English, are not just becoming monolingual, but are also - as aliens to have noticed - 3rd world at the one language they have adopted. And regardless of that, they will forever be 2nd place in it: it's not their language after all. Anyway, I already made 2 huge post about this many years ago in one of the Indic languages thread. I have nothing to add to my arguments there. They were already complete then, IIRC.)

An expert in Bangla, Hindi and Urdu apart from European languages, Harder cautioned against such a disaster as more upwardly mobile families stop teaching their own language to their children.

Studying ethno-Indology helps contextualise and link subjects to ancient texts.

"One can better understand evolution of politics and economics by studying Arthashastra by Chanakya," said Dr. Michaels.

(IE-ists will next claim Chanakya/Arthashastra for Oryanism, the way IE-ist Victor Mair claimed Sun Tsu/Art of War.)

So this semester the institute is offering a course on ‘human physiology and psychology in the early Upanishads’ by Anand Mishra, an IIT mathematics graduate who took up the study of Sanskrit for his research on evolving a more grammatically suitable computing language.

[photo caption:] PM Narendra Modi with German Chancellor Angela Merkel

"Working on Panini’s Sanskrit grammar, I realised it could be a great tool in computing language," said Mishra.

Dr. Michaels feels that instead of indulging in a political and religious debate, Indians should try to preserve their heritage.

("Skt is mere heritage" not a living religious language, just a "world heritage" secular language, for now still allowed to be "Indian". Even though it is an exclusively ethnic-Hindoo language.)

"Don’t we conserve a rare, old painting or sculpture? This is a live language…and rich cultural heritage which might become the casualty of neglect just as great civilisations like Hampi, the art of Ajanta and temples of Konark got buried in oblivion. It was up to the British to discover them later. Sanskrit, along with its culture, philosophy and science might become similarly extinct," he claimed, adding: "On the other hand, [size="6"]there is so much yet to discover through Sanskrit...details of Indus Valley civilisation, for example."[/size]

(1. Can see how mlecchas have been hard at work reinventing how "Skt" has its "own culture, philosophy and science". And that it specifically does not have a religion - not allowed to. I.e. Skt - and its "culture, philosophy and science" are now made secular, having been separated - by sleight of hand/sophistry - from its inseparable heathenism. As what happened with hellenismos under the same alien - christo and christo-conditioned - hands. But the "culture, philosophy and science" in Skt IS and is OF Vedic religion onlee.

2. The large sized text appears to be yet more admission by the mleccha demons - Dhu had found damning evidence, I wonder when he will make his discovery public at last - that mlecchas know full well that the Indus Valley Civilisation IS Vedic and that the Vedam was not only revealed within India to the intuition of Rishis, but that aliens already know that the Vedam in India predates or is at least co-eval with the IVC.)

Germany has already been a storehouse of Sanskrit scholars to the world.

"The majority of Sanskrit scholars, including those at Harvard, California Berkeley and the UK, are Germans," he said.

But why?

"Probably because we never colonised India and maintained a romantic view about it," quipped Dr. Michaels.

(No. The reason is because - as seen in the post on the Brokpa in the Unmasking AIT thread - because Germany is still Oryanist. And because they still deeply believe, but so do many E Europeans/Russians, no less than many Brits/AmriKKKans etc, that they are Oryans and Skt [and all things Vedic] belongs to them. It is indologists' Only personal reason for indology.

Similarly, Victor Mair's IE-encroachment on China - the Indo-Europeanising of sinology - is Exclusively because Mair wants to pretend to himself and others that all that is astounding about ancient Chinese heathen civilisation and heathenism derives from PIE/Victor Mair's imaginary Oryan ancestors.)


Again: "Hindu" vocalists are often seen denouncing centuries-long christowestern attempts to kill Hellenismos while claiming its Language, Philosophy, Culture, Sciences and Civilisation (shorn of its inextricable religion, Hellenismos, of course).

But where are the same when the indologists and dabblers and assorted western aliens try to separate Hindoo heathenism=Vedic religion from Samskritam, its "culture, philosophy, sciences" and civilisation?

Has no one seen this happen before? To the GrecoRoman religion?

Hindoos aren't even dead yet, and alien demons are allowed to run off with our stuff piecemeal (to put it together in their own backyard and declare it was theirs all along/inherited from "their" "oryan" ancestors. <- It's what dabblers and indologists have been doing. In fact, many dabblers in the Vedam ARE indologists and they are very insistent that Vedic religion and Skt have nothing to do with the "later" Hinduism which is accorded late, miscegenated status along with the allegedly late, miscegenated Hinduism-professing inhabitants of India who still possess "their" [the aliens'] Vedam).
Post 3/3

Can compare the mleccha anti-Hindu demons above - who deny Hindu religion and try to extricate it from Samskritam (even as they want to exert power over it themselves/want to claim it for themselves - with:



via samskritabharati.in/

Quote:BEIJING, May 16, 2011

Updated: May 18, 2011 19:41 IST

In China, a rediscovery of Sanskrit

Ananth Krishnan

A class in session at Peking University with renowned Indian Sanskrit scholar Satyavrat Shastri teaching Chinese graduate students. Photo: Ananth Krishnan

The Sanskrit programme at Peking University has a long history, set up in the 1960s and subsequently expanded by renowned Indologist Ji Xianlin, who translated dozens of works

Almost two millennia after the language first came to China through Buddhist scriptures, renewed interest in Buddhist studies and recent discoveries of long-forgotten manuscripts in Tibet have sparked a revival of the study of the ancient language among Chinese scholars.

Beijing’s Peking University has now launched an ambitious programme to train more than 60 Chinese students in Sanskrit, with the hope of creating a team of researchers to help translate hundreds of manuscripts containing scriptures that have been found in Tibet and other centres of Buddhism, such as Hangzhou in China’s east.

“There is a rich manuscript collection in Tibet, particularly. Many of the originals have not been recovered, and are only available in Chinese and Tibetan, so it is important for us to find a way to render them back into Sanskrit,” said Satyavrat Shastri, a renowned New Delhi-based Sanskrit scholar and poet, who is in Beijing this week as a visiting lecturer to meet and advise students and teachers here.

“What they are trying to do here is invaluable, and they are making great progress,” Mr. Shastri said, adding that he was pleasantly surprised by the students’ technical level.

“I was struck by the interest, of both teachers and scholars, in little details, such as getting the pronunciation perfect. They recited the Bhagavad Gita with me, and it was a unique experience. The pronunciation, the metre [of reciting the verses], was remarkable.”

(Yeah, well. E Asians are - unlike the encroaching thieving mleccha demons - naturally good at a lot of heathen stuff. It's 'cause they have heathen ancestry or are still heathen.)

The Sanskrit programme at Peking University has a long history, set up in the 1960s and subsequently expanded by renowned Indologist Ji Xianlin, who translated dozens of works and is seen by many here as single-handedly introducing classical Indian culture to a whole generation of Chinese.

Today, the programme hopes to carry forward the legacy of Ji, who died in 2009.

The university’s efforts received a boost in 2005, when it was given support by the Ministry of Education to expand admissions, part of an effort to boost manuscript research.

Now, for the first time, the programme has a regular annual intake of students at both undergraduate and post-graduate levels, currently training between 50 and 60 students.

“We want to continue what Ji Xianlin started,” said Duan Qing, a professor in Sanskrit and Pali who once trained under Ji. “Our programme is quite mature now, and is the only complete Sanskrit programme in China.”

She attributed the recent boost in funding to increasing government support for the humanities, ignored during the People’s Republic’s first three decades when the country’s focus was on development alone.

“Sanskrit research is being viewed with importance now,” she said. “India and China were culturally connected. I don’t think there’s another country in the world where so many Sanskrit works were translated into another language, and this has been going on for more 1,000 years.”

Ms. Duan heads the Research Institute of Sanskrit Manuscripts and Buddhist Literature at Peking University, which is working with regional governments and hoping to create an archive for lost manuscripts and palm-leaves. Graduate students will work with the institute to help translate scriptures.

Yu Huaijin, a PhD student who is studying Kalidasa’s Kumarasambhava, said she joined the programme because she believed it was playing the role of “a bridge between two cultures.”

“India and China are neighbours, but they know little about each other, especially the younger generation. It is a big objective for me to introduce Indian culture and literature to a Chinese audience,” she said.

Few Chinese students are interested in Indian culture, with much greater interest in Western literature. Ms. Yu, too, was first a student of Western literature — until she happened to read a translation of the Mahabharata by Ji Xianlin. “It was a different world,” she said. “And one that few Chinese are aware of.”

Peking University has also begun working with Sanskrit programmes in universities in the West, particularly in Germany, to improve both teaching methods and archiving practices.

(I wish the Chinese would work with Hindoo universities, not with the mleccha demons. It's already a great pity that the Japanese "Indology" depts work with the alien demons from the west. Oh well. what will happen will happen I suppose.

But either way, E Asians studying Skt need to realise that MBh, the Gita and Kalidasa/Kumarasambhava - texts mentioned by Ms Yu above - are all exclusively Hindoo=Vedic religion, and not remotely Buddhist or something.)

Indian universities, have however, appeared to show little interest in taking forward cooperation. Mr. Shastri, who is an honorary professor at Jawaharlal Nehru University, admitted there was “precious little” cooperation between the two countries. There was room for much more, he said, encouraged by the positive response to his teaching methods this past week.

“We want to learn Sanskrit through traditional methods,” one teacher told him. “Not from the West.”

If you compare the Chinese (and Japanese) interest in Skt and in the literature of Vedic religion, with the mleccha demons' interest in Skt and Vedic religion, the former use it as a means to understand and admire India, its history and its people. Many even use it to understand and admire Hindoo heathenism and Hindoos, and to use this understanding as a bridge between themselves/their civilisations/who they are and Hindoos.

In contrast, the alien mleccha demons from the west are interested in Skt/Vedic religion since they think it is "actually" theirs, to claim it for themselves and to deny Hindoos the right to it (hence the denial not only of Hindoo heathenism and its exclusive association with Skt, but denying that Hindoo heathenism=Vedic religion). Aliens both thieve our stuff and also seek to deny our stuff to Hindoos. Many of the very same indologicals and dabblers in the Vedam are the same as want Skt learning and Veda pathashaalas closed down in India. Many of them are into this, because they are oryanists (white supremacists) and think it is all "actually theirs", and are incredibly annoyed to see "miscegenated" Hindus "encroach" on what is actually "theirs" (aliens'). Other mleccha demons become this hostile when they find out that traditional Hindus don't accept mleccha dabbling (especially in the Vedam) and won't teach them therefore. So not only do they start alien "pure vedism" movements/cults too, they also try to destroy actual Vedic religion in India. No point wondering about it, I realised: It's what mleccha demons do. It's their thing. More proof the Vedam/Skt was never theirs.
Not sure what thread this belongs in.

Another major blow. Missed the following news when it was reported end 2014:


Quote:Uttar Pradesh

Lucknow /

India's largest, oldest press printing Gita shuts shop

December 18, 2014

India'a most authentic, biggest, trusted and sustained connect for the Hindu devout with its rich past of religious literature is faced with a strike and indefinite closure. Headquartered in eastern Uttar Pradesh and publishing religious works since 1923, the Gita Press has shut down indefinitely owing to labour unrest.

The indefinite closure comes at a time when Prime Minister Narendra Modi has been gifting the Gita to foreign leaders and External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj has pitched for declaring it a "national scripture".

Gita Press, a unit of Gobind Bhawan Karyalaya registered under the Societies Registration Act of 1860 (presently governed by the West Bengal Societies Act, 1960) began as an initiative to "promote and spread the principles of Sanatana Dharma, the Hindu religion among the general public by publishing the Gita, Ramayana, Upanishads, Puranas, discourses of eminent Saints and other character-building books and magazines and marketing them at highly subsidised prices," a member of the management told IANS, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Ruing the decision to close down the press, located in Gorakhpur district, the official said three employees - Virendra Singh, Ram Jeevan Sharma and Munivar Mishra - have also been dismissed for instigating fellow employees.

"Information about the dismissal of these employees and of the indefinite closure has been communicated to the district administration, the police and the state's labour department" the official further informed.

Over the years, the institution has made available more than 370 million copies of the Gita, Ramayan, Bhagvat, Durga Saptashati, Puranas, Upanishads, Bhakta-Gathas and other character-building books in Sanskrit, Hindi, English, Gujarati, Tamil, Marathi, Bangla, Oriya, Telugu, Kannada, and other Indian regional languages at low cost.

"Kalyan" in Hindi, with 300,000 subscribers and "Kalyana-Kalpataru" in English, the monthly publications of the institution, are counted among the country's most subscribed religious magazines and are preserved for their rich content.

Shrimad Bhagvad Gita in different editions has sold nearly 115 million copies, Shri Ramcharitamanas and other works by Goswami Tulsidas 92.2 million, Puranas, Upanishads and ancient scriptures 22.7 million, small books especially for women and children 105.5 million and books on Bhakta-Gathas (biographies of saints) and Bhajans (devotional songs) 124.4 million.

Overall, 582. 5 million copies of Gita Press publications have so far come out.

An employee leader, while pointing out that to go on strike was a painful decision, accused the management of being autocratic and indifferent to their demands.

"We demanded a 10 percent hike in our wages every year, 30 days of paid leave and 20 percent house rent allowance," the leader said, adding that the workers had struck work in 1982 and the standoff continued for 44 days.

Despite reading the explanation above, I'm still thinking the overall development fits perfectly in with Project Thessalonika. So have to wonder if any of the workers-turned-strikers, including any among the firebrands too, are infiltrati.

Lots of Hindoo publishers of Hindoo books and audio media have been closed over the years. Few remain. Further, re-interpretationists, new-ageists and subversionists are promulgating Hindoo texts. Christianism will take advantage of and fill in the void (much of it itself caused by christianism) by peddling falsehoods and manglings. The Buddhists and Jains long ago and even the Brits more recently were caught at such cheating at times of downturn for the Hindoo heathenism. And this is a darker era for Hindoo heathenism than ever before, IMO.

An example of blatant textual subversion is IIRC seen at the skt docs site, which hosts a version of the Dharmashaastaa Sahasranamam/naamaavali whose digitised (transliterated) version was "contributed" by a Syrian christian, as is very clear from their name.

The christo sneak mangled the text deliberately: it changed Dharmashaastaa's name from Bauddha-SaMgha-Vinashana(aya) into Bauddha-Sankha-Vinashana(aya).

I have 3 original texts of the same sahasranaamam (incl naamaavali):
  • one compiled along with a great many other stotras and tantra mantras by a very learned vedabrahmana long deceased who used all these including Dharmashaastaa's sahasranaamam for his ritual practice (and hence he won't get it wrong),

  • one published in recent decades by a Hindoo publication associated with a Hindoo temple in TN,

  • and I think one published turn of last century (the 19th to 20th century cusp) in Tamizh Grantha [scanned].

All three independent sources confirm Bauddha-Sangha-Vinashanaaya.

Further 2 independent audios of the sahasranamavali both recited by Vedabrahmanas (of quite different age, proving again that the material has remained consistent) also repeat "OM bauddha-saMgha-vinashanaaya namaH".

[BTW, traditional HindOOs won't be expected to pretend that Ayyappa/Dharmashaastaa has something to do with Buddhism, right? 'Cause that is something only the Bauddhified believe. Hindoos sought refuge in Ayyappa from the predatory Buddhist Sangha - just as Hindus had earlier repeatedly sought refuge in Shaastaa from other threats - and he once more protected them. Hence the name.]

The news was:


Quote:India's largest, oldest press printing Gita shuts shop

December 18, 2014

India'a most authentic, biggest, trusted and sustained connect for the Hindu devout with its rich past of religious literature is faced with a strike and indefinite closure. Headquartered in eastern Uttar Pradesh and publishing religious works since 1923, the Gita Press has shut down indefinitely owing to labour unrest.
This post is not on Skt. But on the subject of scripts.

Actually belongs with an earlier post on pre-Ashokan Brahmi found in the subcontinent (esp TN and SL), but can't locate that readily. And not sure which thread the following belongs in.


(Nothing actually biblical, but merely a common name of the region and time also seen in mentioned in the babble.)

Had seen a comment there, the first part of seems like just word-games (even easier to do with languages that only depict consonants in writing, so any vowels can be filled in, plus some consonants can have variants, and thus many words can be fit in there with such lax rules). But this bit is interesting if there's any merit to it:

Quote:Wim Borsboom


Although the script on this jar is apparently very early Hebrew, 5 or 6 of the graphemes bear ancient Harappan Indus Valley Culture's script resemblance.

If true, wonder if there's been any study done on the total number of pictograms that correspond between the two sets.

(If significantly high and thus ruling out coincidental convergence, this could lead to further indications to Brahmi being locally descended; rather than Brahmi being derived from Phoenician script, as is often claimed by the west.)

Quote:First ever Sanskrit animatics film!:

(Doesn't "animatics" mean storyboards? Do they mean animation?)

Fund the first ever Sanskrit animatics film! @wishberry_in https: // t.co/hRJh7Yd9M2 Folks pl fund. I commit my funding! Pl RT. Our stories!

— Mohandas Pai (@MDPai05) July 20, 2015


(The recommended project is of course secular: a christo chartered account and an islamic doing the screenplay are on board.)

Understandable that my own lightbulb moment from long ago - that amateurs should to start gathering together and make animations in Skt and regional languages - didn't take off, since tradigital animation is simply incredibly labour intensive.

But plan B could simply be fandubbing of famous Japanese animation feature films on heathenism. At least Ghibli's Shinto movies (Tonari no Totoro, Sen to Chihiro no Kamikakushi and Mononoke Hime), but there are also 70s and 80s anime series that were beamed in FR and DE dubs that are worth dubbing into Bharatiya languages.

Actually, any family, especially extended family can make a fandub. For kids films where many characters are children, can round up interested kids in the family and get going.

For Skt, get someone you know who knows Skt, ask them to translate the English subtitles (not dubtitles) script which is easily captured off the movie file. The script in the Bharatiya language needs to approximately fit the length of the lines in the original for the sake of timing.

Perhaps voice acting in Skt may be harder (don't know about others, but I'd certainly end up concentrating on pronunciation rather than acting itself), but extra practise of each set of lines before recording them should hopefully eventually help with decent delivery, and then hit record.

It may also be harder to intone sentences when you don't fully understand a language or know on which words of any sentence to lay stress, but good to get someone who knows Skt for this or else assume that Skt intonation is the same as in any Bharatiya language.

If a family has a computer they should be able to get started. All the software necessary already comes with a Windows machine anyway.

E.g. see wikihow.com/Make-a-Fandub

There's also lots of free software out there. Once each bit of audio has been recorded and edited into the audio track, export the audio as an mp3, and then mux (merge) with the video file at the end. (Good to capture the original movie as MKV as this allows easily adding additional extra audio tracks and sub tracks.)

Hindoo schools could even plan to fandub a movie per class over the year, and make this into a class exercise. Or like the west does with dubbing E Asian dramas and JP anime, people can form groups at uni and fandub a movie.

Anime is easier because JP animates lip-flap rather than animating characters' lips actually forming the words in a particular language as seen in feature length western animations. So JP feature animations are much easier to sync. And with animations it is generally easier to sync dubs than with live action, but lots of people in S America create (fan)dubs for E Asian drama serials.

Always wondered why Hindoos never did any of this.

Of course, better would be to also create our own stories in the local languages, and especially as a vehicle for imparting both Skt and Hindoo narratives from a traditional Hindoo perspectve (2 birds with one stone). But creating own stories would require a lot more work and borrowing physical equipment: Hindoos would need to either form amateur theatre groups and make fan movies, or those skilled in drawing and painting need to learn tradigital animation, get some hardware and animate (which is still very intensive work) to create Skt material for kids to watch. As for the last, personally, I think CGI killed traditional (tradigital) animation and that vector animation ruined it, but something is better than nothing. As long as aesthetics is not entirely sacrificed for having "something/anything" at the end. People with a will to do it could have done it long ago, but activism on the web seems to keep Hindu nationalists busy forever.

Can make the suggestion to the RSS - said to be the largest volunteer org in the world! - and you already have a huge pool of actors/voice actors. Maybe even animators... (Surely at leats 50% of Indians draw and the other 50% can be taught in little enough time. Drawing requires no talent, no brains. Just practise. And the confidence that comes from knowing that anyone can draw.)

But here's something far easier that any parent/grandparent/aunt/uncle could do:

1. Select a good summary version of a Hindoo epic or account from a Purana or from Kalidasa. Or write a summary account yourself. Or even write your own uplifting animal story or something.

2. Ask (pay) some Skt expert to translate it into Skt.

3. Start making Skt language audiobooks for the family: record your reading it out loud, intoning it in a manner that makes it interesting, as you would when narrating or reading any story out loud. Maybe ask/pay the Skt expert in step 2 to read it out loud instead, if you're not sure how to intone sentences in Skt (I don't). Or at least get the script in your mother tongue, and record it in this.

I-pads/tablets, old mp3 players and possible mobile phones would have audio recording support. Or a computer. It's all that's needed.

4. Create a Hindoo website of free Hindoo audiobooks in Bharatiya languages made by volunteers and share with fellow Hindoo families.

Hindoos can create audiobooks in their own mother tongues at least. Yet do they do this? (Got my parents to start doing this for little ones in the family.)
Related to couple of posts up: Gita Press still alive and kicking with the blessing of the Gods.

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