Islamism - 5

08-14-2006, 09:25 PM

It is Islamic Fascisim by Stephen Morris-

By now it should be patently clear that we in the West are at war with a hydra-headed and barbaric enemy that has not a shred of humanity and relishes the bloodletting of tens of thousands of innocents, including other Muslims. It is at least as brutal as the Nazis and communist enemies we have faced in the past. Although radical Islam is not militarily as powerful as Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union, it has the huge strategic advantage of suicide bombing, which is immune to deterrence.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...783-601,00.html

08-15-2006, 08:25 AM

Haha...give me more..India main 50 salse yeh hain what happened..Whom they are trying to fool?

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politic...219289.ece

Let us adopt Islamic family law to curb extremists, Muslims tell Kelly 
By Colin Brown
Published: 15 August 2006

Muslim leaders have urged Ruth Kelly, the Secretary of State for Communities, to support Islamic family law in Britain to stop youths joining Islamic extremists.

Following three hours of meeting with Muslim groups in Whitehall, Ms Kelly said: "There is a battle of hearts and minds to be won within the Muslim community, working with the Muslim community to take on the terrorist and extremist elements that are sometimes found within it, not just in the Muslim community, but elsewhere as well."

John Prescott, the Deputy Prime Minister, who was also at the meeting, is today expected to meet Muslim Labour MPs who have demanded a change in Government foreign policy on the Middle East.

Mr Prescott and Ms Kelly made it clear that the threat of terrorism could not be used to force a change of policy abroad. Ms Kelly said she did not accept that British foreign policy should be dictated by a small group of people.

"What I do accept is that there is a lot of anger and frustration out there in the community that needs to be properly expressed and vented through the democratic process," she said.

Dr Syed Aziz Pasha, secretary general of the Union of Muslim Organisations of the UK and Ireland, said he had asked for holidays to mark Muslim festivals and Islamic laws to cover family affairs which would apply only to Muslims.

Dr Pasha said he was not seeking sharia law for criminal offences but he said Muslim communities in Britain should be able to operate Islamic codes for marriage and family life. "In Scotland, they have a separate law. It doesn't mean they are not part of the UK. We are asking for Islamic law which covers marriage and family life. We are willing to co-operate but there should be a partnership. They should understand our problems then we will understand their problems."

He said that Ms Kelly had said she would "look sympathetically at all the suggestions" that had been made. He added: "She agreed with my suggestion [that] it should be a partnership approach."

The meeting was the latest in a series aimed at showing the Government is listening to the Muslim community. The role of co-ordinating the meetings was switched from the Home Office to the Communities department to move the focus from law and order to a wider agenda.

Yousif al-Khoei, of the Al-Khoei Foundation, said they had discussed with the Mosques and Imams National Advisory Board "how we could channel some of the frustrations of the youth into peaceful channels". He said: "It's a question of working at local level as well as national solutions.

"The main message for me is that nobody is taking the problems lightly and the time for talking is over. We need to have a co-ordinated attempt to tackle the problems. If we don't, we may regret this for generations to come."

Labour MPs with large Muslim communities in their constituencies have expressed concern about the pressure for sharia in Britain.

Muslim leaders have urged Ruth Kelly, the Secretary of State for Communities, to support Islamic family law in Britain to stop youths joining Islamic extremists.

Following three hours of meeting with Muslim groups in Whitehall, Ms Kelly said: "There is a battle of hearts and minds to be won within the Muslim community, working with the Muslim community to take on the terrorist and extremist elements that are sometimes found within it, not just in the Muslim community, but elsewhere as well."

John Prescott, the Deputy Prime Minister, who was also at the meeting, is today expected to meet Muslim Labour MPs who have demanded a change in Government foreign policy on the Middle East.

Mr Prescott and Ms Kelly made it clear that the threat of terrorism could not be used to force a change of policy abroad. Ms Kelly said she did not accept that British foreign policy should be dictated by a small group of people.

"What I do accept is that there is a lot of anger and frustration out there in the community that needs to be properly expressed and vented through the democratic process," she said.

Dr Syed Aziz Pasha, secretary general of the Union of Muslim Organisations of the UK and Ireland, said he had asked for holidays to mark Muslim festivals and Islamic laws to cover family affairs which would apply only to Muslims.

Dr Pasha said he was not seeking sharia law for criminal offences but he said Muslim communities in Britain should be able to operate Islamic codes for marriage and family life. "In Scotland, they have a separate law. It doesn't mean they are not part of the UK. We are asking for Islamic law which covers marriage and family life. We are willing to co-operate but there should be a partnership. They should understand our problems then we will understand their problems."

08-15-2006, 01:16 PM

QUOTEIt is Islam, dummy

Author: Amil Imani on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 11:30

The terror and death inflicted on humanity is not the work of radical Islam, neither the political Islam, nor the militant Islam. It is Islam, period. Get it? And the perpetrators are not fringe elements confined to brainwashed Saudis, loony Taliban, or a know nothing Pakistanis who have hijacked Islam and are now in the business of mass murder. The latest project of the practitioners of the âreligion of peaceâ aimed to blowing planeloads of innocent civilians to smithereens in midair over the Atlantic -- ought to finally drive the point home: it is Islam, dummy. Get it?

How could people calling themselves sincere God-fearing religionists bring themselves to even think of acts of such barbarity, yet plan them methodically and cold-bloodedly proceed to execute them?

The answer is Islam. The life manual of Islam, the Quran, is a document of exclusion, hatred and violence that shapes the Muslimsâ thinking and behaving. This stone-age document is optimally suited for people of stunted development. People who prefer to follow than to think for themselves, to hate than to love, and to seek death rather than to celebrate life.

Sadly, Muslims themselves are the ones who are most victimized by Islam. They have inherited this viral psychological disease of hate and violence; they live by it, and transmit it to their children as well as to receptive others.

A puzzle to non-Muslims: why any intelligent and reasonably sane person would live his life by the dogma of Islam? It is particularly disconcerting when this Muslim lives in a secular non-Islamic society. The befuddlement becomes mind-boggling when seemingly educated women in free societies voluntarily submit to the yoke of Islamic misogyny.

There are a number of possible explanations to the enigma of believing in Islam and even propagating it with zeal and violence. Some possible explanations are treated here.

For one, Islam is stamped on the impressionable mind of the child from birth. The parents and immediate members of the family are the ones who make the very first impressions on the tabula rasa of the young mind. These early impressions are the grid-work for further formation of the personâs mind and belief system. It is by far easier, as life goes on, to incorporate âitemsâ that readily fit into the grid-work, than to modify it or dismantle it altogether and begin anew. It is in recognition of the importance of early training and education that people such as Saint Augustine and Freud considered the first few years of life as critical for molding the person. âTeaching the very young is like itching in the stone,â says an Eastern proverb.

Another reason is the herd mentalityâstay with the group, be one of them, and don't strike out on your own. This strong disposition to belong is reinforced by privileges that the group bestows; social pressure, as well as the fear of castigation by the wielders of power. There is security and power in numbersâin any numbers.

Islam is also appealing for giving purpose and order to the personâs lifeâboth the life on earth as well as an immortal life after death. Islam is omnipresent and omniscient father figure who draws the boundaries, points out the path, dictates the terms, holds the carrots and the sticks. It absolves the person, for most parts, from the often demanding tasks of dealing with difficult questions and choosing what to do with oneselfâa highly attractive trade off for many. Accept Islam as your guide, follow its path and you will never have to suffer the agony of not knowing and having to make decisions by yourself; you will be guided along the path of eternal happiness and salvation. Just follow the unerring guide given to mankind by the seal of the prophet, Muhammad.

An elaborate package of mostly illogical and bizarre prescriptions and proscriptions comes with the Islamic offer, covering every imaginable aspect of life. In the matter of being a good Muslim, nothing is left to chance that one needs to figure out for himself. âI think, therefore I amâ said Rene Descartes in substantiating his claim to being a conscious being. âI don't think, I faith; therefore I am an automaton,â says the Muslim in absolving himself of the need for independent thinking.

Even the minutest detail of the Muslimâs life is rigidly structured. He is to perform the obligatory prayer, for instance, five times a day at the exact appointed times. He must drop everything and go through the prescribed gesticulation and recitation of the verses while facing Mecca. Before saying his prayer, however, he must perform ablution. The Ablution, using water, must be carried out in a precise manner and sequence. In the absence of water, the faithful can substitute soil for water and go through the practice of âpurifyingâ himself by running soil over his hands, arms, face and feet. After completion of ablution, as prescribed, he may proceed to say his prayer unless he commits flatulence. In that case, he must re-perform the ablution all over again.

Being a good Muslim, particularly a good male Muslim, is indeed a full time job. Male Muslims are obligated to go for Hajjâwomen don't have to do so. Islam is a manâs religion, through and through. Women are to please men erotically, to attend to them like chattel, and birth them boys. Going on Hajj and accumulating merit points for admission to Allahâs paradise is reserved for men. Women may also go to Hajj, if they are lucky enough to afford the journey or allowed by their owners, men, to do so. For women, there are no promises that by going on Hajj and paying tribute to the house of Allah they endear themselves to him. âWomen are calamities, but no home should be without one,â is an old Islamic characterization of women. Hence, a woman is a necessity and not much more.

In short, Islam treats its believers as children irrespective of age. An extensive cadre of mullahs and imams, who themselves are thoroughly indoctrinated, minister to the children. These professional leechesâthe mullahs and imamsâsystematically program the mind of their charges through liberal use of fear, threats of hell, and occasional promises of eternal life of bliss in Allahâs paradise if they be obedient good children.

A Muslim is born Muslim, yet he acts as if he independently and through his own labor has discovered the great find; he clings to it as his cherished security blanket; and, would part with his life, rather than giving it up. It is, therefore, understandable what a recent poll has found. Fully 81% of British Muslims consider themselves Muslims first and British second. The 81% know full well that there is absolutely no chance of being harassed, much less persecuted, in Britain for professing their highest loyalty to Islam. So, they come out and admit it. The other 19% are even more Muslim. They are practicing what the Quran teachesâdissimulation. Muslims are taught to lie. They lie when they have to and they lie when they don't have to, just to stay in practice.

The bottom-line is that the non-Islamic world has a huge problem on its handsâthe ever-encroaching Islam. For as long as there are mosques, madrasehs, and Islamic centers; as long as a vast cadres of well-paid, highly indoctrinated and strategically placed mullahs and imams; and, as long as there are people who prefer to be treated as children, Islam will flourish anywhere and will pose an existential threat to unbelievers. All the excuses, grievances and reasons given for savagery of the jihadists and Islamofascists are side issues. It is Islam, dummy. It is Islam itself. Get it?

Amil Imani is an Iranian-born American citizen and pro-democracy activist residing in the United States of America. Imani is a columnist, literary translator, novelist and an essayist who has been writing and speaking out for the struggling people of his native land, Iran. He maintains a website at
amilimani

http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php...article&sid=364

08-15-2006, 10:07 PM

Passport photograph of girl's bare shoulders rejected 'as it may offend'QUOTELondonistan 14/08/2006

Hannah Edwards's mother, Jane, was told that the exposed skin might be considered offensive in a Muslim country.

The photograph was taken at a photo-booth at a local post office for a family trip to the south of France.

Sunder · 08-15-2006, 10:25 PM

QUOTE(Mudy @ Aug 15 2006, 10:07 PM)Passport photograph of girl's bare shoulders rejected 'as it may offend'<div class='quotetop'>QUOTELondonistan 14/08/2006

Hannah Edwards's mother, Jane, was told that the exposed skin might be considered offensive in a Muslim country.

The photograph was taken at a photo-booth at a local post office for a family trip to the south of France.

[right][snapback]55670[/snapback][/right]
</div>

I agree.. Are British passport officers trying to stick to these standards of Islamic code?
`<img src='http://www.fmft.net/archives/muslim%20passport/A.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Bharatvarsh · 08-15-2006, 10:31 PM

Muslims call for special bank holidays
By JAMES CHAPMAN

10:27am 15th August 2006

Muslim leaders summoned to talks with the Government on tackling extremism in their midst called for public holidays to mark their religious festivals.

The Whitehall meeting was set up in response to last week's airline bomb plot discovery.

Communities Secretary Ruth Kelly had prepared an uncompromising message on the need to tackle dangerous radicalism.

But, in what she admitted were 'sharp' exchanges, some senior Muslim figures turned the tables yesterday and made a series of demands which also included the introduction of Sharia law for family matters.

Dr Syed Aziz Pasha, secretary general of the Union of Muslim Organisations of the UK and Ireland, said: 'We told her if you give us religious rights, we will be in a better position to convince young people that they are being treated equally along with other citizens.'

Dr Pasha said Miss Kelly had agreed to look at the proposals, though her spokesman insisted later that she did not favour any legal change which would give 'special treatment' for the Muslim community.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770

08-15-2006, 11:17 PM

QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Aug 15 2006, 01:01 PM)Muslims call for special bank holidays
By JAMES CHAPMAN
10:27am 15th August 2006
Muslim leaders summoned to talks with the Government on tackling extremism in their midst called for public holidays to mark their religious festivals.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770
[right][snapback]55674[/snapback][/right]


Matter of time before someone suggests having a muslim as UK prime minister will curb islamic terrorism. Even with muslim PM, there could be problems, so if the British queen converts, nothing like it... UK will become an island of peace! <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/b_woot.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='b_woot.gif' />

All these jokers are being politically correct and the ummah continues to extract concessions... first asking for islamic personal laws, then islamic holidays... so eventually UK will become like India with a fully committed p-sec media.

08-16-2006, 03:40 AM

QUOTEOp-Ed in Deccan Chronicle, 15 August 2006
Roots of Arab anger cannot be ignored 
By HRH Prince Hassan bin Talal

How much aggression in our region has been justified by the mantra that western interests are under threat? The battle cries claim that all is at stake and every strike is a final defence of freedom and stability. But the premise behind this thinking has become all too obvious. Arabs and Muslims of whatever race or hue are not to be trusted. They are not to be dealt with fairly and the âliberal valuesâ that protect the righteous of Israel or the United States are not for our defence or our protection. It seems that even the moderates in Arab societies lack the fibre that would grant them equality under international law. We are all as one, barbarians at the gate to be cowed and bullied into silent submission.

But we should be thankful that Arab moderation fights on with stoicism. Moderation will continue to battle for the hearts of those millions for whom this war on terror is an offence to their existential realities. Boaz Ganor, the prominent Israeli thinker, addressed the question of terrorism and demanded that there be âno prohibition without definition.â Terrorism must be defined objectively, based upon accepted international laws and principles regarding what behaviour is permitted in conventional wars between nations. 

The roots of that Arab anger and disillusionment which allow legitimacy to be handed over to extremists cannot be ignored. Terrorism is a tactic borne out of a perversion of lines of representation. If we do not allow the many to speak, then the violent few will scream to be heard. It may be difficult for most Israelis to admit, but the Shia of southern Lebanon became politicised and militarised only in response to repeated Israeli aggression.

The citizens of Israel and the other States in West Asia must be honest about the effects of decades of abuse of people and of international law, unless you believe that we Arabs possess a unique terrorist gene, which has ignited our responses in recent decades. If this is the case, then throw firewood on the blaze and let our region burn until you have killed or exiled every last Arab in your neighbourhood.
The founders of Israel and, indeed, the US, fought what they perceived as an occupation. Recently, Israelis commemorated the bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946 as a landmark act in ending the British Mandate. But surely this must be defined as an act of terror. A statement in the British House of Commons at the time described the attack, in which 92 people were murdered, as âone of the most dastardly and cowardly crimes in recorded history.â

The Lebanese have been damned to repeat this phrase to describe attacks on their country. But in our world, righteousness belongs to the victor. If this is the way of the new world order, and international law no longer has a place â then, by all means, the extremists on all sides must fight to the death. The question is what can usefully be won in such a scenario. The evils of pain, suffering and moral bankruptcy are all the spoils of our new-world fighters.

The traumatic effects of the collective punishment of civilian populations will be felt for generations to come. The Israeli Defence Forces that occupy, have made terror a daily reality for the civilian populations of Palestine and Lebanon, populations who have lived and continue to live during illegal occupation. For the other side of this global war on terror, violence is most often something to read about. The threat of terror is fetishised by media and politicians, and provides a scant excuse for policies that make terror a daily reality in the lives of millions of people in West Asia.

No one can ignore the pain and suffering of the Israeli people in recent weeks, but the policies of disproportionate reprisal and abuse of humanitarian norms can only beget further violence. Jordan is a country that fought two World Wars on the side of the Allies. We have suffered from the shockwaves of aggression on all sides and we have endured threats and terror right up to Zarqawiâs terrible attacks on Amman. So do not patronise us by dubbing us allies in the war on terror and then dismiss our words when we question your policies.

The politics you entertain in this region are the product of a false perception. Our regional perspective is being ignored and, all the while, empowered extremists are gaining greater control. We must not be fooled into thinking that a new West Asia can be devised by political strategists and imposed from top down. The promotion of participatory democracy has been curtailed by a fear of empowering moderate Arabs and moderate Islamists.

Regimes within the region and powers outside attempt to stifle the protests of dismayed populations â protests that should be aired through banners and the ballot box. But the moderates are now shouting also. The evolution of freedoms cannot be controlled from above, nor blasted into alien forms that poorly represent the needs of those seeking freedom. With the ever-increasing polarisation of hate, we should be grateful that exasperation has not stifled the protest of moderates.

HRH Prince Hassan Bin Talal, brother of the late King Hussein of Jordan, is President of the Arab Thought Forum, President of the Club of Rome and Moderator of the World Conference of Religions for Peace

Sunder · (This post was last modified: 08-16-2006, 08:43 PM by Sunder.)

Need good writing skills, and historical expertise.

Below is a site on Wikipedia on Islamic 'invasion' of India which seems to be overrun by Islamic zealots as it reeks of lies seems to justify the killing of hundreds of millions of Hindus by Islamic terrorists in the past 1300 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_invasion_of_india

The discussion page mentions that one Raghu Kuttan tried to modify the page but it was removed by the muslims. Unfortunately, books by BharatVani and other books that paint a true picture are thrown out by Indian Government itself and hence serves as a weak reference.

Can someone with good writing skills and someone who can systematically - with reference - add to the argument ?

excerpt:
QUOTEVijayanagara

The city flourished between the 14th century and 16th century, during the height of the Vijayanagar Empire. During this time, it was often in conflict with the kingdoms which rose in the Northern Deccan, and which are often collectively termed the Deccan Sultanates. The period saw brutalities from both sides. In 1366, Bukka I captured the Muslim region of Mudkal and slaughtered all but one inhabitant. The lone survivor of this carnage is supposed to have taken the news to Mohammad Shah, the Sultan of the Bahamani sultanate. In response the sultan ravaged the hindus (Reference: Lonely Planet INDIA, 2005). In 1565, the empire's armies suffered a massive and catastrophic defeat at by an alliance of the Sultanates, and the capital was taken. The victorious armies then razed, depopulated and destroyed the city over several months. The empire continued in slow decline, but the original capital was not reoccupied or rebuilt.

Bharatvarsh · (This post was last modified: 08-16-2006, 09:24 PM by Bharatvarsh.)

Well actually it seems like Bukka I did massacre them, but previous to that Muhammad Shah had slaughtered all the inhabitants of Vellunputtun. Here is some info:
QUOTEAfter an interval, enraged at an insult offered or supposed to have been offered by the Rajah of Warangal, Muhammad made a rapid advance to the former's city of "Vellunputtun," as it is spelt by Firishtah, or "Filampatan," according to the author of the BURHAN-I-MAASIR. He seized it, slaughtered the inhabitants without mercy, and captured the unfortunate prince Vinayaka Deva.[41] The Sultan "commanded a pile of wood to be lighted before the citadel, and putting Nagdeo in an engine (catapult), had him shot from the walls into the flames, in which he was consumed." After a few days' rest the Sultan retired, but was followed and harassed by large bodies of Hindus and completely routed. Only 1500 men returned to Kulbarga, and the Sultan himself received a severe wound in his arm.

This was followed by a joint embassy from Bukka of Vijayanagar and the prince of Warangal to the Sultan of Delhi, in which they offered to act in conjunction with him should an army be sent southwards by that monarch in order to regain his lost power in the Dakhan; "but Feroze Shah, being too much employed with domestic commotions to assist them, did not attend to their representations." Thus encouraged, Muhammad assembled fresh forces and despatched them in two divisions against Warangal and Golkonda. The expedition was successful and the Rajah submitted, the Sultan receiving Golkonda, an immense treasure, and a magnificent throne as the price of peace. The throne was set with precious stones of great value, and being still further enriched by subsequent sovereigns was at one time valued at four millions sterling.[42] Warangal finally fell in A.D. 1424, and was annexed to the Bahmani kingdom, thus bringing the Muhammadans down to the River Krishna all along its length except in the neighbourhood of the east coast.

Now for the principal events of Bukka's reign and the affairs of Vijayanagar. The story deepens in interest from about the year 1365, and for two centuries we can follow the fortunes of the Hindu kingdom without much difficulty.

Early in A.D. 1366[43] the Sultan opened his first regular campaign against Vijayanagar. Originating in an after-dinner jest, it ended only after such slaughter that Firishtah computes the victims on the Hindu side alone as numbering no less than half a million. The story is told us by an eye-witness, one Mullah Daud of Bidar, who was seal-bearer to Sultan Muhammad.[44]

"One evening, when the spring of the garden of mirth had infused the cheek of Mahummud Shaw with the rosy tinge of delight, a band of musicians sung two verses of Ameer Khoossroo in praise of kings, festivity, and music. The Sultan was delighted beyond measure, and commanded Mallek Syef ad Dien Ghoree to give the three hundred performers a draft for a gratuity on the treasury of the roy of Beejanuggur. The minister, though he judged the order the effect of wine, in compliance with the humour of the Sultan wrote it, but did not despatch it. However, Mahummud Shaw penetrated his thoughts. The next day he inquired if the draft had been sent to the roy, and being answered, not, exclaimed, 'Think you a word without meaning could escape my lips? I did not give the order in intoxication, but serious design.' Mallek Syef ad Dien upon this, affixed the royal seal to the draft, and despatched it by express messenger to the roy of Beejanuggur. The roy, haughty and proud of his independence, placed the presenter of the draft on an ass's back, and, parading him through all the quarters of Beejanuggur, sent him back with every mark of contempt and derision. He also gave immediate orders for assembling his troops, and prepared to attack the dominions of the house of Bhamenee. With this intent he marched with thirty thousand horse, three thousand elephants, and one hundred thousand foot to the vicinity of the fortress of Oodnee;[45] from whence he sent detachments to destroy and lay waste the country of the faithful."

The Raya, in spite of the season being that of the rains, pressed forward to Mudkal, an important city in the Raichur Doab, or the large triangle of country lying west of the junction of the Krishna and Tungabhadra rivers, a territory which was ever a debatable ground between the Hindus and Mussulmans, and the scene of constant warfare for the next 200 years. Mudkal was captured, and all the inhabitants, men, women, and children, put to the sword. One man only escaped and carried the news to Kulbarga.

"Mahummud Shaw, on hearing it, was seized with a transport of grief and rage, in which he commanded the unfortunate messenger to be instantly put to death; exclaiming that he could never bear in his presence a wretch who could survive the sight of the slaughter of so many brave companions."

The same day -- I.E. on a day in A.H. 767, in the month of Jamad-ul-awwal, which lasted from January to February 13, A.D. 1366 -- the Sultan marched southwards taking a solemn oath --

"that till he should have put to death one hundred thousand infidels, as an expiation for the massacre of the faithful, he would never sheathe the sword of holy war nor refrain from slaughter. When he reached the banks of the Kistna, he swore by the power who had created and exalted him to dominion, that eating or sleep should be unlawful for him till he had crossed that river in face of the enemy, by the blessing of heaven routed their army, and gladdened the souls of the martyrs of Mudkul with the blood of their murderers. He then appointed his son Mujahid Shaw to succeed him, and Mallek Syef ad Dien regent of his kingdom. He resigned all his elephants, except twenty, to the prince, gave him his advice, and sent him back to Kulbarga. He then crossed the river with nine thousand chosen horse without delay. The roy of Beejanuggur, notwithstanding his vast army, was so alarmed[46] that he sent off all his treasure, valuable baggage, and elephants towards his capital, intending to engage the next morning, or retreat, as he should find it adviseable. The night being stormy and heavy rain falling, the elephants and other beasts of burden stuck frequently in the mud,[47] and were not able to advance above four miles from the camp. Mahummud Shaw heard of the enemy's movement during the night, and immediately marched towards them, leaving his encampment standing. Towards the dawn he arrived at the roy's camp, and the alarm being given, so great was the confusion, that the infidels fled with the utmost precipitation towards the fortress of Oodnee, leaving everything behind them. Mahummud Shaw entered the camp of their market and baggage, putting all to death without any distinction; and it is said that the slaughter amounted to seventy thousand men, women, and children."

Here is Firishtah's account:[50] --

"Roy Kishen Roy (I.E. Bukka), on receiving the intelligence (that Muhammad had crossed), called together all the first nobles of his court, and consulted on the best mode of opposing the mussulmauns. It was agreed that Hoje Mul,[51] a maternal relation to the roy and commander of his armies, should have the conduct of the war. Hoje Mul, vain to excess, on receiving his command, asked the roy if he should bring the prince of the mussulmauns alive a prisoner into his presence, or present him only his head upon a spear. Kishen Roy replied, that a living enemy, in any situation, was not agreeable, therefore he had better put him to death as soon as he should take him. Hoje Mul, having received his dismission marched to oppose Mahummud Shaw with forty thousand horse and five hundred thousand foot. He commanded the Bramins to deliver every day to the troops discourses on the meritoriousness of slaughtering the mahummedans, in order to excite zeal for expelling them. He ordered them to describe the butchery of cows,[52] the insults to sacred images, and destroying of temples, practised by the true believers.

"Mahummud Shaw, when the enemy arrived within fifteen coss[53] of his camp, commanded his general, Khan Mahummud, to muster the troops, who were found to be fifteen thousand horse and fifty thousand foot. Ten thousand horse and thirty thousand foot, with all the artillery, he advanced under Khan Mahummud Khan.

"On the 14th of Zeekaud (A.H. 767, or Thursday, July 23, A.D. 1366), the armies of light and darkness met. From the dawn till four in the afternoon, like the waves of the ocean, they continued in warm conflict with each other, and great numbers were slain on both sides. Mooseh Khan and Eeseh Khan, who commanded the right and left wings of Khan Mahummud's line, drank the sherbet of martyrdom, and their troops broke; which misfortune had nearly given a blow to the army of Islaam. At this instant Mahummud Shaw appeared with three thousand fresh horse. This restored the spirits of Khan Mahummud as also of the disordered troops, who rallied and joined him. Mukkrib Khan, advancing with the artillery, was not wanting in execution, greatly disordering the enemy's horse and foot. He asked leave to charge and complete the rout. Khan Mahummud upon this, detached a number of the nobility to support him, and permitted him to advance; which he did with such rapidity that the infidels had not time to use fireworks (I.E. cannon), but cane to short weapons such as swords and daggers. At this time an elephant, named Sheer Shikar,[54] belonging to Khan Mahummud, refused the guidance of his driver, and rushed into the center of the enemy's line, where he was stopped by the elephants of Hoje Mul Roy, and his driver was killed. Khan Mahummud with five hundred horse followed, and the elephant becoming unruly, turned upon the enemy, throwing their ranks into confusion. Hoje Mul Roy, after receiving a mortal wound, fled, and his followers no longer made resistance. The infidels, seeing their center broke, fled on all sides. The scymetars of the faithful were not yet sheathed from slaughter when the royal umbrella appeared. The sultan gave orders to renew the massacre of the unbelievers. They were executed with such strictness that pregnant women, and even children at the breast, did not escape the sword.

"Mahummud Shaw halted a week on the field, and dispatched accounts of his victory to his own dominions. In performance of his vow of massacre he next marched towards the camp of Kishen Roy, who, thinking himself unable to oppose notwithstanding his numerous force, fled to the woods and mountains for shelter. The sultan followed him from place to place for three months, putting to death all who came in his way, without distinction. At length Kishen Roy took the road of Beejanuggur, his capital. The sultan, pursuing, soon arrived with his army near the city."

To make a long story short, the Sultan besieged Vijayanagar in vain for a month, and then retreated across the Tungabhadra, harassed at every step by masses of the Hindus from the city. He halted at last in an open plain, and the king also pitched his camp at no great distance. Muhammad's retreat had been deliberately carried out in order to draw on his enemy, and cause him by over-confidence to neglect proper precautions. The ruse was successful. The Muhammadans made a sudden and unexpected night-attack. Bukka (called, as before, "Kishen") was off his guard, having indulged in wine and the amusements provided by a band of dancing-women. The slaughter was terrible, and the Raya fled to Vijayanagar, ten thousand of his troops being slain; -- "But this did not satisfy the rage of the sultan, who commanded the inhabitants of every place round Beejanuggur to be massacred without mercy."

Then Bukka tried to make peace, but the Sultan refused.

"At this time a favourite remarked to the sultan that he had only sworn to slaughter one hundred thousand Hindoos, and not totally to destroy their race The sultan replied that though twice the number of his vow might have been slain, yet till the roy should submit, and satisfy the musicians, he would not pardon him or spare the lives of his subjects. To this the ambassadors, who had full powers, agreed, and the money was paid at the instant. Mahummud Shaw then said, 'Praise be to God that what I ordered has been performed. I would not let a light word be recorded of me in the pages of time!' "

The ambassadors then pleaded that no religion ordained that the innocent, and particularly helpless women and children, should suffer for the guilty: --

"If Kishen Roy had been faulty, the poor and wretched had not been partakers in his crimes. Mahummud Shaw replied that the decrees of providence had so ordered, and that he had no power to alter them."

The ambassadors finally urged that as the two nations were neighbours, it were surely best to avoid unnecessary cruelty, which would only embitter their relations with one another; and this argument had effect.

"Mahummud Shaw was struck by their remarks, and took an oath that he would not in future put to death a single enemy after victory, and would bind his successors to observe the same lenity."

For some years, no doubt, the promise was fulfilled, but we read of wholesale massacres perpetrated by sovereigns of later date. As to Muhammad, Firishtah glories in the statement that he had slaughtered 500,000 Hindus, and so wasted the districts of the Carnatic that for several decades they did not recover their natural population.

Thus ended the war, and for some years there was peace between Vijayanagar and Kulbarga.

http://www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/resources/en...1.chapter4.html
Let's face it, Hindus have nothing to apologise for that massacre even if Bukka did do it because he did it as retaliation for countless other massacres heaped on the Southern Hindus previous to that. Later on under Banda Singh Bahadur Muslims were massacred by the thousands in retaliation in every town he sacked for the killing of Guru Govind Singh's sons, the Muslim chroniclers claim that he even overturned Muslim graves. If Muslims can justify that massacre of Muhammad Shah based on Bukka's massacre in Mudkal then Bukka's massacre was justified by what Muhammad did in Vellunputtun, the real sad thing is that Hindus didn't have more Bukka's and people like Banda Singh Bahadur's among them, otherwise Muslims would have got a taste of their own medicine before modern and supposedly civilised conventions tied up our hands.

I don't even know if Krishna Roy is Bukka, the Muslim historians never seem to get Hindu names right, according to some writers the Krishna Nayak mentioned above was none other than Kapayya Nayak.

Sunder · 08-16-2006, 10:15 PM

QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Aug 16 2006, 09:14 PM)Let's face it, Hindus have nothing to apologise for that massacre even if Bukka did do it because he did it as retaliation for countless other massacres heaped on the Southern Hindus previous to that.
[right][snapback]55719[/snapback][/right]

Thanks Bharatvarsh. My problem was not the mention that Bukka had liquidated muslims. The problem is that the incident is shown to be an act of agression rather than retaliation, and is shown as an instance to justify the retatliation of muslims. The one sided and false painting of the picture is the main issue.

Bharatvarsh · 08-16-2006, 10:43 PM

QUOTEThe problem is that the incident is shown to be an act of agression rather than retaliation, and is shown as an instance to justify the retatliation of muslims. 
Sunder the very fact that Bukka urged the Brahmins to preach about the butchering of cows and other insults offered to Hindu dharma is evidence that he nursed a dislike for Muslims and did those things in retaliation, plus as I said before before he commanded the massacre in Mudkal Muhammad Shah had already perpetrated a massacre in Vellunputtun (which came under Vijayanagar territory) so it was in retaliation that he did it and as far as I am concerned he was fully justified in what he did although he should have taken the women and children and reconverted them all, that would have been a better course of action.

08-17-2006, 09:33 PM

Suicide bomber's widow soldiers on
Wife of assassin professes undying affection for bin Laden

Bharatvarsh · 08-18-2006, 05:26 AM

Sunder, the following is Nilakanta Sastri's account of these wars:
QUOTEOn 21 March 1365, Muhammad sat on the throne at Gulbarga, and celebrated the occasion with great dclat. He ordered, according to Ferishta, that the singers and dancers who entertained him on this occasion should be paid by a draft on the treasury of Vijaya-nagar, and despite his ministers' remonstrances he insisted on the literal execution of this rash order. When his messenger took the draft to Vijayanagar, Bukka (Ferishta calls him Krishnaraya) had him paraded on an ass in his city, and then crossed the Tunga-bhadra and seized Mudgal. Muhammad was furious and in- continently marched against Bukka though only with a moderate force. Bukka withdrew with his cavalry to Adoni, leaving the infantry to face the enemy and defend the country. Muhammad plundered and killed the defenceless inhabitants in the villages before he retired into Mudgal for the rains. The rest of his army then joined him; he marched in the direction of Adoni and, early in 1367, a battle was fought at Kauthal, south of the Tunga-bhadra. The Muslims gained the victory, thanks to their guns and their cavalry, the Hindu artillery not coming into play till it was too late, and their commander Mallinatha being mortally wounded. Ferishta is very definite that guns were used by both sides on this occasion and that the gunners were generally Europeans and Ottoman Turks. After his defeat, Bukka eluded Muhammad's pursuit for three months, and finally shut himself up in his capital. Not having the strength to besiege the vast city, Muhammad feigned sickness and retreated. Bukka ventured to attack him, but he had to retire into the city again after losing many men and some treasure. Muhammad then took to the promiscuous slaughter of all the inhabitants of the country and proclaimed his intention of not stopping until his draft was honoured by the ruler of Vijayanagar; the war was then ended by Bukka consenting to this. Four hundred thousand Hindus, ten thousand Brahmin priests among them, lost their lives in the massacre. So shocked were both sides by the dimensions of theÂ slaughter that an agreement was made to spare non-combatants in future wars. Though violated on occasions, this agreement did do something to mitigate the horrors of the perpetual contest between the two states.

Ferishta's account of Muhammad's wars with Vijayanagar cannot be accepted at face value. He retails as a cause of the first war an improbable story of a large issue of gold coins by Muhammad which were melted down by the Hindu bankers of his kingdom at the instance of the Hindu rulers of neighbouring kingdoms. In his account of the second war he calls the Vijayanagar ruler Krishnaraya and mentions his general Bhojmal of whom history knows nothing. Again, according to Ferishta himself, the Krishna river was recognized as the boundary between the two kingdoms by the terms of the treaty which ended the war: this virtually conceded the claim of Vijayanagar to the territory between the Krishna and Tuiigabhadra, which would not have been the case if Muhammad had been so uniformly successful in the war as Ferishta would have us believe.

A History of South India, Nilakanta Sastri, Pg 265 and 266

http://dli.iiit.ac.in/cgi-bin/Browse/scrip...e=2020050057668

ramana · 08-19-2006, 01:31 AM

Book Review from the Telegraph, 18 August 2006
QUOTETOUCH THE SKY FROM THE SHADOW OF THE DUNEÂ

The ambit of Islam in the days of Ibn BatutaÂ

Muslim Networks: From Medieval Scholars to Modern Feminists
Edited by Miriam Cooke and Bruce B. Lawrence,
Orient Longman, Rs 695

The book under review consists of articles written by thirteen Islamic scholars. The contributors are both Muslim and non-Muslim, ranging from Ibn Batuta of the 14th century to contemporary scholars.

Networks existed much before the advent of Islam. For instance, there was a trade network across the Mediterranean to the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea. Chinese trade links with the Arabs can be traced back to the second century BCE. Muslim traders, in fact, came to use these networks and give them added value. It is historically true that Muslim traders ventured into Asia immediately after Mohammedâs death in 632. 

{BTW the spread of Islam was along these networks and the extent of their expansion was the area defined above. I also think that the ban on sea travel for Hindus came about due to this conversion business. I dont have evidence but my own intution.}

Their first Asian journey was to China where, apart from trading, they helped the Chinese emperor to quell local rebellions and thereby earned his patronage. Not only did they strengthen the existing commercial activities and cultural ties but they also ensured that some people were converted to Islam to benefit from these trade networks. 

Ulema, the men of the pen, played an important role in networking. Travelling through the transnational networks, the ulema disseminated Islamic knowledge to Muslims throughout the world and created a cohesiveness and uniformity in value and culture. Besides, a sense of togetherness was created spanning thousands of miles across the globe at a time when modern communication systems were non-existent.

However, Zaman, in his article, points out a lacuna. He mentions that ulemas could communicate only with their elite counterparts. They failed to reach out to the pre-modern Muslims who were villagers and rural agriculturists. Nevertheless, their elite colleagues in different parts of the world used to communicate with fellow Muslims about judicial values and the custodians of the values, the ulema.

{The Ashraf-Ajalf divide. The ulema would communicate with their kinfolk the Ashrafs and also improve their worth in the eyes of the Ajalfs.}
Travel played a significant role in Muslim networks. Way back in the 14th century, when Sufism was in its ascendancy, zawiyas, that offered accommodation and set no time limit on the visitorâs stay, and madrasahs were opened in many places around the world to facilitate travel and the dissemination of knowledge respectively.

Trust was perhaps the most important ingredient in Islamic spirituality. Islam expects submission to the creator, the guide and arbiter of all human existence. One of the five pillars of Islam is zakat or almsgiving. Hospitality and charity were measures of oneâs trust in god. Muslim rulers extended their generosity to foreign travellers, an important practice which is the social code of Muslim travel. 

Ibn Batutaâs Rihla is an eloquent testimony of the life and times of Muslims. In 1325, at the age of 21, he left Tangiers and travelled through most of the world. His first journey was to Granada where he enjoyed the hospitality of the last Muslim kingdom of al Andalus.

Until the 20th century, men were the only beneficiaries of Muslim networks. Only during the annual haj were women allowed to pray along with men. But with the benefit of the internet and other electronic gadgets, Muslim networking has changed fundamentally. It is interesting that Muslim womenâs associations, such as Women living under Muslim Laws, and other similar organizations are connecting Muslim women globally. Established in 1986 by the Algerian Marie-Aime Helie-Lucas, the WLUML provides information and guidance to women both in countries governed by Islamic laws and in those that are not. During the Nineties, the WLUML undertook the âWomen and Lawâ project to oppose the growing influence of Islamists. It advocates peace, prevention of violence against women, gender equality and womenâs rights. Three of the essays in this volume document the functioning of Muslim womenâs networks that came into limelight towards the end of the 20th century.

This insightful collection of essays aspires to build a bridge between the past and the present and also the future âthrough the prism of Muslim network.â It is an interesting collection that deserves attentive reading.

SANJAY PRAKAS NANDA

08-19-2006, 11:32 PM

Multiculturalism is to blame for perverting young Muslims
By Michael Nazir-Ali, Bishop of Rochester (Filed: 15/08/2006)

Islamic radicalism did not begin with Muslim grievances over Western foreign policy in Iraq or Afghanistan. It has deep roots, going back to the 13th-century reformer Ibn Taimiyya, through Wahhabism to modern ideologues such as Sayyid Qutb in Egypt or Maududi in Pakistan.

The Soviet occupation of Afghanistan gave it the cause it was looking for, and Afghanistan became the place where Muslim radicals were trained, financed and armed (often with Western assistance).
.............
Finally, there are the grievances. Some of these are genuine enough, but the complaint often boils down to the position that it is always right to intervene where Muslims are victims (as in Bosnia or Kosovo), and always wrong when they may be the oppressors or terrorists (as with the Taliban or in Iraq), even when their victims are also mainly Muslims.
............................

08-20-2006, 10:28 PM

x-post by rraajjeevv
Long article in the Daily Telegraph of UK on Tablighi Jamat

Army of darkness
By William Langley, Roya Nikkhah, James Orr, David Bamber and Massoud Ansari in Islamabad (Filed: 20/08/2006)Page 1 of 6
Along the dusty roads, and through the rural towns and villages of the poorer parts of the Islamic world, travel small groups of men from a secretive and little-understood movement called Tablighi Jamaat, carrying what its followers proclaim to be the true word of God.
In so far as it speaks at all to outsiders, the organisation, founded almost 80 years ago, declares itself to be non-political and non-violent. Yet, with increasing and alarming frequency, the name of Tablighi Jamaat is cropping up in the worldwide fight against terrorism.
Several of those arrested on August 9 in connection with the alleged plot to blow up airliners en route from Britain to America, had attended Tablighi study sessions in Britain.
At least two of the 7/7 suicide bombers - Mohammed Siddique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer - had worshipped at a Tablighi-run mosque in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire. 
Richard Reid, the failed British shoe-bomber, is known to have Tablighi associations, while the path to violent radicalism of John Walker Lindh, the "American Taliban" now serving 20 years for treason, appears to have begun with his contact with Tablighi missionaries.
In America, the activities of the Tablighi have been under close scrutiny for some time. A confidential FBI memo, leaked to a television news network last year, portrayed the group's followers as likely to be particularly susceptible to the terrorist cause. "We have a significant presence of Tablighi Jamaat in the US, and we have found that al-Qaeda used them for recruiting, now and in the past," says Michael Heimbach, the deputy chief of the FBI's international terrorism section. Yet, in Britain, the organisation, its shadowy membership and less-than-explicitly stated aims remain virtually unknown.
It should be otherwise, for, while rival Islamic groups flaunt their reach and power, Tablighi Jamaat - loosely translated as "propagators of the faith" - exercises influence in a more discreet, yet more worrying, fashion. The organisation was founded in British-ruled India in 1927, at a time of growing political friction between Hindus and Muslims that led to the partition of the sub-continent in 1948. Both communities rallied their faithful loudly, and one of the voices that rose above the clamour was that of Muhammed Ilyas Kandhalawi, a scholar and cleric who prescribed a strict code of religious observance. Tablighis, however, were taught that their true security - indeed, their religious duty - lay in recruiting as many followers as possible. No limit was placed on the potential pool of converts, and so, implicitly, the ultimate objective was the Tablighisation of the world. The group, for all the mystique that surrounds it, has been diligent, and, today, with a growing presence in the West, it is viewed by anxious critics as a Trojan horse of Islamic fundamentalism.
It operates legally in both Britain and America, and it should be stated that none of its leading figures is known to have said anything that suggests support for terrorism. Indeed, the Tablighis reject any form of political alignment, restricting their activities, according to the group's founding creed, to prayer and self-improvement through intense study of the Koran. So much so, that some hardline Muslim groups have, in the past, attacked Tablighi Jamaat for its conspicuous failure to take a political stance on issues such as Israel and the Iraq war.
Yet, say Western critics, this passivity is not all that it seems. The group's ideal of a world governed by an ultra-conservative, neo-medievalist form of Islam, in which women are subservient and all laws and customs are based on religious dictates, is barely distinguishable from the wish lists of al-Qaeda and the Taliban.
Marc Gaborieau, the head of the School of Indian and South Asian Studies in Paris, and a Western authority on Tablighi Jamaat, says that the group's objective is "the conquest of the world". Less easy to divine, he admits, is the strategy. "It is extremely secretive and suspicious of outsiders and no one at the centre of its activities has been fully identified or has spoken about how it operates. We know that it does not recognise national borders and that, despite its claim to be apolitical, it does have ties with politicians and branches of the military, particularly in Pakistan and Bangladesh."
The modern leadership of the Tablighi is one of its core mysteries. After Kandhalawi's death in 1944, control passed to his son, Muhammed Yusuf, who led a dramatic expansion across the sub-continent until his own death in 1965. It is understood that real power is still held by family members, although how it is exercised, and by whom, remains largely unknown.
"It operates in every sense as a secret society in this country, as much as elsewhere," says Dr Patrick Sukhdeo, the director of the Institute for the Study of Islam and Christianity. "Its meetings are held behind closed doors. We don't know who attends them. How much money it has. It publishes no minutes or accounts. It doesn't talk about itself. It is extremely difficult to penetrate."
For all its growth, Tablighi Jamaat has, in one sense, changed little. In the early days, it would send its followers out as missionaries. Working in small groups, with few material possessions, they would walk from village to village, denouncing modernity as blasphemy and calling for a return to the 7th-century origins of Islam and what Kandhalawi perceived to be the purity of the faith. Today, the organisation runs on a global scale - it has about 50,000 followers in America alone - but its missionaries still operate in the traditional way, visiting Muslim community groups and mosques to call for a re-embracing of the faith.
In Britain, the group is run from the 3,000-capacity Markazi Mosque in Dewsbury - built with funds from Saudi Arabia - which also functions as Tablighi Jamaat's European headquarters. Signs around it warn: "Photography prohibited. Unauthorised persons not allowed. Trespassers will be prosecuted." Residential courses for young Muslims are held there and the group sends its missionaries across the Continent. Last week, Shabbir Daji, a secretary and trustee of the Tablighi Jamaat movement and a spokesman for the mosque, denied that the organisation had any links with Islamic extremism. "We are a society that offers information to Muslims on how to reform themselves," he said. "We are not a political organisation and we do not let any brothers speak about politics within the mosque. We do not create those sort of people [terrorists]. We condemn them totally. If we think anyone has an agenda outside of our own, we immediately throw them out of the mosque. We have nothing to hide. We feel very bad and very angry that we are being linked to what is going on. People are putting out information that is untrue. It is not creating a good image in the community, and that is not helpful to our cause."
Local support came from Hanif Moyett, a councillor for Batley, West Yorkshire, and secretary of another Dewsbury mosque. "Their function is to go out into the community and to invite their brothers who have been led astray to embrace their religion again," he said. "They encourage those who are not regular visitors to their local mosques to attend more often. They lead them down the path of good."
The Tablighi appear fully aware of the suspicions they arouse. An account of a meeting held in Stratford, east London, reported yesterday, told of the group's belief that it had been infiltrated by informers, and that the authorities kept flight records of all members who travelled. One official said: "Tablighi is like Oxford University. We have intelligent people - doctors, solicitors, businessmen - but one or two will become drug dealers, fraudsters. But you won't blame Oxford University for that. We are not worried. They can close us down and the effort will continue. We have no fear." The group's ambitions in Britain are, nevertheless, on a grand scale. The Tablighi is in advanced discussions with the London Development Agency (LDA) for the construction of a giant,70,000-capacity mosque complex - Europe's biggest and the centrepiece of an "Islamic Village" in the east London borough of West Ham.
If it goes ahead - at an estimated cost of Â£100 million-Â£200 million - it will become London's biggest religious site. Ken Livingstone, the London mayor, is a supporter, as, it appears, is the LDA and, once again, much of the money is likely to come from the Saudis.
Not everyone is overjoyed. "I think, at the very least, we need to know much more about Tablighi Jamaat," says Dr Sukhdeo. "Who runs it and what it is up to? And I think we need to ask whether we want an unequivocally 'Islamic Village' in London. To me, this is taking us down the path to parallel societies - one mainstream British, the other Islamic - and there ought to be some serious debate about it."
The concerns go farther. Western intelligence - while largely exonerating the Tablighi of direct involvement in terrorism - increasingly sees the group as a key component of the radicalisation of Muslim opinion. In France, according to an intelligence report cited by Le Monde, up to 80 per cent of known extremists have, at some stage, passed through Tablighi ranks, leading to the group being labelled "the antechamber of terrorism" by intelligence officers.
Certainly, there appears to be a none-too-distinct crossover between the Tablighi and recognised terror organisations. Abundant evidence exists that large numbers of Tablighi followers are undergoing training in military-style camps in Pakistan and Afghanistan, while the Moroccan government - in company with others - has published documents suggesting that home-grown terrorists frequently use the Tablighi Jamaat as a cover, "to hide their identity on the one hand, and to influence these groups and their policies on the other".
For its part, the Philippines government has specifically accused the group of funding Saudi money to Islamic radicals in the south of the country.
When American investigators tackled the case of Iyman Faris, a Pakistan-born American citizen, now serving 20 years in prison for his part in a plot to blow up New York's Brooklyn Bridge, they quickly discovered that he had posed as a Tablighi preacher in order to have an expired airline ticket re-issued in Pakistan. Such is the group's reputation in much of the Islamic world that the travel agent readily made the amendments to the ticket.
American counter-terror agents depict membership of it as, at the very least, a useful measure of fundamentalist leanings. One official told the New York Times: "It's a natural entrÃ©e, a way of gathering people together with a common interest in Islam. Then extremists use that as an assessment tool to evaluate individuals with particular zealousness and interest going beyond what's offered."
John Lindh came into contact with the Tablighi a year after his conversion to Islam in 1998. He travelled with a small group of the organisation's preachers and later, when looking for ways to advance his Islamic studies, was guided by a Tablighi contact to a religious school in Pakistan. From there, he moved into the fighting ranks of the Taliban.
American authorities point to numerous similar cases. In few, if any, can the Tablighi be held directly responsible for its followers becoming jihadis, but the group's pervasive presence and championing of its austere and rigorous form of Islam is widely seen as part of the conditioning process.
"The West's misreading of Tablighi Jamaat's actions and motives has serious implications for the war on terrorism," says Alex Alexiev, the vice-president for research at the Institute for Security Policy in Washington DC. "Tablighi Jamaat has always adopted an extreme interpretation of Sunni Islam but, in the past two decades, it has radicalised to the point where it is now a driving force of Islamic extremism and a major recruiting agency for terrorist causes worldwide."
The method, says Mr Alexiev, is simple and is practised wherever the Tablighi operates. After being brought into the organisation by missionaries, promising recruits are typically invited to Pakistan for additional training. There, albeit seemingly without the Tablighi's knowledge or approval, they are liable to be approached by representatives of terror organisations.
Assad Sarwar, 26, of High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, one of the alleged airline-bombing plotters, is said by his family to have joined Tablighi after dropping out of university. Waheed Zaman, 22, of Walthamstow, east London another of the men detained, is also understood to be a follower. British intelligence is, as one source put it last week, "very interested" in the group, although the prevailing view among the authorities remains that Tablighis have done nothing demonstrably wrong.
But, as Mr Alexiev warns, while law enforcement focuses attention on Osama bin Laden, the war on terrorism cannot be won unless al-Qaeda terrorists are understood to be products of Islamist ideology preached by groups such as Tablighi Jamaat. "If the West chooses to turn a blind eye to the problem," he says, "Tablighi involvement in future terrorist activities at home [in the US] and abroad is not a matter of conjecture; it is a certainty."

Given the group's opaque nature and sprawling global structure, it is hard to assess what dangers it may, either now or in the future, represent. But the time has come, as the critics argue, to end the secrecy.

08-20-2006, 10:29 PM

x-post by rraajjeevv
Guardian's take on Tablghi Jamaat
Inside the Islamic group accused by MI5 and FBI
Paul Lewis Saturday August 19, 2006 The Guardian
Thousands of young Muslim men are attending meetings in east London every week run by a fundamentalist Islamic movement believed by western intelligence agencies to be used as a fertile recruiting ground by extremists.
Tablighi Jamaat, whose activities are being monitored by the security services, holds the tightly guarded meetings on an industrial estate close to the area where some of the suspects in last week's terror raids were arrested.
This week it emerged that at least seven of the 23 suspects under arrest on suspicion of involvement in the plot to blow up transatlantic airliners may have participated in Tablighi events.
The organisation - influenced by a branch of Saudi Arabian Islam known as Wahhabism - has already been linked to two of the July 7 suicide bombers who attended a Tablighi mosque at the organisation's headquarters in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire. The jailed shoe bomber Richard Reid is also known to have attended Tablighi meetings.
Until now, the leaders of Tablighi Jamaat - which means "group of preachers" - have refused to open their doors to outsiders, shrouding the organisation in mystery.
Tablighi enthusiasts say that the organisation, founded by a scholar in India in the 1920s, has no involvement with terrorism and simply encourages Muslims to follow the example of the prophet and proselytise the teachings of the Qur'an. As one sympathetic imam put it, they were the "Jehovah's Witnesses of Islam".
On Thursday evening, the Guardian witnessed around 3,000 men from as far afield as Great Yarmouth and the Isle of Wight stream through the backstreets of Stratford to the meeting. There, at the gates of a seemingly derelict industrial site, men in fluorescent jackets waved those who are known to the Tablighi Jamaat hierarchy under a security barrier, and into one of three fields that surround a cluster of prefabricated buildings which form a temporary mosque.
As the Guardian entered the complex one person spoke admiringly about the "main man" for the south-east division of Tablighi Jamaat. "We can't call him a prophet," he said. "No one can be a prophet. But when you meet him you'll realise. He's helped a lot of people in Walthamstow to follow the right path, the path of the prophet. He'll talk to you openly this evening and everything will make sense."
Seconds later, the main man stood next to his red van in Islamic dress and a smart blue waistcoat as hundreds of men, many carrying suitcases and sleeping bags, filed past him into a network of six rooms cobbled together with planks of wood and corrugated plastic windows. He later said he was from Walthamstow.
The largest room was reserved for the main speaker, an elder from Preston who spoke in Urdu. His sermon was relayed through a microphone to five other rooms in which interpreters provided simultaneous translation into English, Arabic, Sinhala, Turkish and Somali.
The English-speaking room heaved as a sea of faces, white, black and Asian, spilled into the hallway. Most were teenagers and men in their 20s and 30s dressed in Islamic dress, caps and beards. Some came in suits and ties, others in jeans and hoodies. There were old men too, who weaved slowly through to the front of the room, and a few young boys.
The Walthamstow man took a seat in the middle of the room to interpret proceedings. The murmur of hundreds of whispering voices stopped as he put on his headphones. "We come to submit our will to Allah," he began. "We have to live the life that Allah has prescribed for us. We have been invited into Allah's house."
He continued to translate the preacher's message. "If a person is drowning, the man who saves him needs to take him out of the water. If he has swallowed too much water, that water must come out. At the moment we are in a worldly ocean and we are all drowning. For us to become successful, we must come out of this world for a short period of time."
Although not a scholar, the interpreter is deeply respected. Quietly, some in the congregation whisper that he has seen miracles - the sign of a truly committed Tablighi.
After an hour the preacher concluded with a call for followers to join the effort and commit to a trip away. "We must leave our houses, our businesses, our families, for a short period of time, and follow the path of Allah and practise the ways of the prophet, going from mosque to mosque," said the interpreter. "Then [the behaviour] will become second nature to us. We shall go to India and Pakistan for four months to follow these ways."
What Tablighi followers call "the effort" - travelling around the country for three days or 10 days, depending on their level of commitment - is key to the organisation. Once they have completed the first stage, they may undertake a 40-day trip, which is likely to entail travel around Europe.
Finally, a Tablighi member will be given the opportunity to take a four-month journey to Pakistan or India. During their "efforts" members are encouraged to emulate the life of the prophet and show others "the path".
On domestic trips, members are sent to communities where they will have most leverage. In September, for example, students will be sent to universities throughout the country.
Later in the evening, the rooms are transformed into dining halls. A small group of men who know several of the Walthamstow suspects gathered round to share out plastic plates of chickpeas, lamb and naan bread, washed down with cans of peach juice and Coke.
"It will shock you but we all used to be deep into drugs and crime and all that," said one man, in his 20s, who went on a three-day trip to Woking with one of the suspects arrested in last week's raids. "Walthamstow used to be a dodgy area. Tablighi changed all that."
A former body builder showed pictures on his mobile of the "pumped-up gym fanatic" he used to be. After spells in prison, he said, he went on a life-changing four-month trip to Pakistan. "I went to places you wouldn't believe," he said. "There are people in Pakistan and India who know less about the prophet than people in east London."
The Urdu interpreter from Walthamstow acknowledged that Tablighi Jamaat had roused suspicions. "I know three or four people who come here regularly who are informants," he said. "After September 11 the security services met with our elders at our headquarters and told them that they keep the flight records of every Tablighi member who travels abroad. But we are not worried. They can close us down and it will not matter because the effort will continue. We have no fear."
He said he was not worried about the Walthamstow suspect he knows best, a young man he recently took on a 40-day trip to Scotland. "Anyone who suffers for Islam will be rewarded," he said.
Asked about the association between Tablighi Jamaat and terrorist groups, he replied: "Tablighi is like Oxford University. We have intelligent people - doctors, solicitors, businessmen - but one or two will become drug dealers, fraudsters. But you won't blame Oxford University for that. You see, it does not matter if someone speaks in favour or against this effort. Everything happens with the will of God."
Another follower added: "Sometimes the youngsters say that if they saw President Bush they would chop his head off, and things like that. But we're discouraged from talking about politics. If elders say these things it is out of anger. They're not dangerous, they can't actually do anything."
By the early hours, 300 followers had volunteered for a three-day trip. One man who knows six of the suspects arrested last week leaned against the wall, the City of London glowing behind his shoulders, and adjusted his cap. "Do you see now?" he said.
"Tablighi is not the problem. It is the solution. It is another world in here, completely different from the world outside."

Bharatvarsh · 08-21-2006, 05:58 PM

QUOTEAn extract of Asim Qureshi's speech:

" ... when we see the examples of our brothers and sisters, fighting in Chechnya, Iraq, Palestine, Kashmir, Afghanistan, then we know where the example lies ... we see Hezbollah defeating the armies of Israel, we know what the solution is, and where the victory lies ... we know that it is incumbent upon all of us to support the jihad of our brothers and sisters in these countries when they are facing the oppression of the West. Allahu Akhbar!"

http://moonbatmedia.com/hizb_ut_tahrir_190806/

08-22-2006, 08:29 PM

QUOTE'Islam is history', says Taslima 
IANS
Posted Tuesday , August 22, 2006 at 18:23
ISLAM IS OUTDATED: Exiled writer Taslima Nasreen says Islam treats women as slaves.
Thiruvananthapuram: 'Islam is history because we live in the 21st century now', opined controversial exiled Bangladeshi writer Taslima Nasreen on Tuesday.
"The Islam religion and their scriptures are out of place and out of time. It still follows 7th century laws and is hopeless. The need of the hour is not reformation but revolution," Taslima told reporters.
The feminist author of Bengali book Lajja is in Kerala in connection with the release of the Malayalam translation of four of her books, which would be released at Thrissur on August 24.
Nasreen said a secular state should have a uniform civil code and should be based on equality, existence and not on religion.
"The state can do a lot of things, and both the state and religion should be separate. The state should not encourage religion. Today religious education and madrassas (religious seminaries) are going up. Jehad is stupidity," said the writer.
She said she had been fighting religious fundamentalism for long.
"I don't go to the streets, instead I write and that is my way of protest. I was born in a Muslim family and Muslim women suffer under Islam. No one told me to fight against oppression. It was inside me. Women are treated as slaves, sexual objects and childbearing machines," added Nasreen.
According to Nasreen, noted Kerala writer Kamala Surayya, who was Kamala Das before she converted to Islam, had now realised that she had made a mistake in converting to Islam. She had held a meeting with Surayya earlier.
"When I asked her if she regrets becoming a Muslim, she said 'yes'. She has realised that Islam does not give equality," said the writer.
She said she would love to return to her country, and if not allowed to then she would like to live in Kolkata because a writer likes to live in surroundings familiar to them.
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/islam-is-histo...ma/19373-3.html

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