The fundamental mistake that most people make is assuming that
the villain is Pakistan, Iran or Saudi Arabia
As early as 1350, in the hindu kingdom of kerala, with 2% muslims,
per Ibn Batuta, muslims were rioting often
The standard secular discourse is that hindutva is radicalising Indian muslims
If we look at the period 1919-1947, during the presence of Gandhi,
muslims went on numerous riots killing millions of people
In places where muslims have been subjected to great violence such
as in Indian Punjab, muslims are very peaceful
The post independence muslim behavior has been
Let me kill hindus,
kill cows,
molest and abduct hindu women
Change demographics by overbreeding or illegal immigration
convert using saudi funds
Whitewash muslim atrocities
Give in to demands such as article 370, Shah Bano etc
ELSE
will riot
The one new twist is
if hindus retaliate, will get help from Pakistan to set off bomb blasts
The choice they give to hindus is get killed by the local muslim
acting alone ELSE get killed with pakistani help
What this shows is that muslims are very willing to climb the escalation
ladder unless matched with reciprocal escalating violence
Case in point
1992 - muslims riot in Mumbai
Hindus retaliate
Muslims bomb Mumbai
Hindus fail to escalate
This hindu failure to escalate has emboldened muslim bombing all
over India
The correct preferred way against Indian Jihadists is strict law enforcement
However, thanks to vote banks that will not happen
Next at some point frustrated with no law enforcement
a hindu mob forms
The correct target for the mob is the local madrasa, mullah, mosque,
not average muslims
In interrogations with jihadists, it has been discovered that
while they may be willing to die, they are deterred by reprisals against their family
members
Hence in a very crude and clumsy way, post Godhra reprisals
had some deterrent effect
Those hindus who advocate violence need to understand
that if the path of violence is chosen, it has to be followed up all the way a-la 1947 Indian Punjab,
else a few years later with better demographic ratio, muslims will again resort to
violence
If the path of violence is chosen, it is all or nothing
Counter breeding is more effective than counter rioting
Ask why we have maximum jihadi activity in kerala, UP, west bengal, Assam,
all ruled by seculars
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Radicalisation Of Indian Muslims, Indian muslim Jihadism<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Radicalization of Indian Muslims is not new, it was always there, but vote bank politics kept them under cover.
Access to fast news is changing perception of Indian Muslim. Rioting is not a solution but Indian Muslim or Muslims always resort in rioting, to some extent this scare tactics keep docile Hindus inside deep hole. They come out of hole only when their own families get attacked.
To control radical Muslims needs some long term and short term strategy.
Check on Madarsa or Mosque activities in India.
Indian Muslims are a bewildered, angry and hurt lot. They canât understand the sharp reactions to the large-scale protests they took part in recent weeks. Itâs not the reaction of the Hindutva forces that has alarmed them. What many Muslims find insulting is the suggestion that they should not have protested in such large numbers as it was against the national current and smacked of religious mobilisation
Sociologist Imtiaz Ahmad believes such responses reveal the metamorphosis of the Hindu liberal. "There are clear double standards here. On the one hand, you keep telling Muslims to come into the mainstream. When they believe they have a stake in the country and the right to protest, then why are you upset?" He also points out that contrary to popular perception, Muslims did take part in protests organised by various Left and secular organisations.
>> My comments.
This dick head Sociologist is a secualr member of BRF!! and apple of BRF eyes just read what he says .. do read the full article on outlook website.
They were always radical anyway, more radical than even the Paki Muslims, the groundwork for Pakistan was laid in Aligarh which still functions in current day India and its greatest supporters were Indian Muslims, these Bihari and U.P Muslims during partition used to go and incite local Muslims to murder and maim Hindus in the Pakistani areas if they were not already doing so, there is no difference between a Pakistani Muslim, Indian Muslim or a Bangladeshi Muslim, in the end they all want the same thing (conversion of India into a land of Islam). The only reason we did not see so much radicalism in the first few decades of independence was due to the fact that they still remembered the partition reprisals and plus they were only 10% but slowly as they gained in numbers and partition memories faded they got emboldened and formed SIMI and the rest as they say is history. Fools can keep on deluding themselves about nationalist Muslims or moderate Muslims but no true Muslim worth his salt would want to live under kaffir rule, it is upto Hindus what they want to do.
It is not to create riots
If Pakistan wanted to create riots, they would explode some unused
mosques with no loss of life and Indian muslims will spontaneously riot
The main purpose of these blasts is Jihad
It demoralises hindus and emboldens muslims
These bomb blasts will stop only if there is a post Godhra type reprisal
These bomb blasts happen due to large scale connivance of Indian muslims
Hindus need to learn from Allied behavior in WW2
They did deliberate mass civilian bombing of Germany and Japan
Look up bomber Harris
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sociologist Imtiaz Ahmad believes such responses reveal the metamorphosis of the Hindu liberal. "There are clear double standards here. On the one hand, you keep telling Muslims to come into the mainstream. When they believe they have a stake in the country and the right to protest, then why are you upset?" He also points out that contrary to popular perception, Muslims did take part in protests organised by various Left and secular organisations.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mass demonstration by Indian muslims were in support of Pan-Islamic cause. It was nothing to do with India. These Muslims were supporting Taliban and other Pan-Islamic Jihadist who without hesitation are killing Indian all over India especially Hindus before or during festival season.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Hindus misunderstand the Varanasi bomb blasts<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Muslims knows low intensity terror creates terror inside common people guts not riots.
I agree with you. Muslims knows very well how to create riots, recent examples Lucknow and Mau.
<!--QuoteBegin-G.Subramaniam+Mar 11 2006, 10:40 PM-->QUOTE(G.Subramaniam @ Mar 11 2006, 10:40 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Despite all the Israeli reprisals, Israel is doomed, muslims are 25% by
birth in residual Israel
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i agreed with the rest of your post but beg to differ on this.
israel is not india. they are not doomed and if it comes to a situation where they are threatened by anhilation they will take their enemy down before they perish (which they never will). even use nukes if necessary or at least threaten to.
nevermind the percentage of muslims, the sayaret matkal and the sayaret golani can beat the crap put of 10 times their number. they have done it before - they can do it again.
"i agreed with the rest of your post but beg to differ on this.
israel is not india. they are not doomed and if it comes to a situation where they are threatened by anhilation they will take their enemy down before they perish (which they never will). even use nukes if necessary or at least threaten to.
nevermind the percentage of muslims, the sayaret matkal and the sayaret golani can beat the crap put of 10 times their number. they have done it before - they can do it again."
Wrong, superior military and technology can only protect you upto a certain point, read the following statement from no less a person than the Israeli PM on why they are withdrawing:
"Acting Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in a national address here yesterday announced his administration will push for a Palestinian state and Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank, saying Arabs might soon outnumber Jews and threaten Israel's Jewish character unless the Palestinians quickly are offered a state of their own.
Maharaja Ranjit Singh's forces repeatedly smashed the Afghans even if the Muslim armies were double in number but in the end Sikhs had to get ethnic cleansed thanks to demographics from a land they formerly ruled (most of current day Pakistan).
In the Nizams kingdom, he had 2 lakh razakars
Meaning 90% of able bodied male muslims in Andhra were active jihadis
Jihadism of kerala muslims
In kerala, I just saw a report that the ISI-Jihadist NDF has 2 lakh members. This means about 20% of able bodied male kerala muslims are active jihadis
Jihadism of kashmir muslims
In 1989, every mosque in the valley blared out messages asking the Pandits to leave
The ethnic cleansing of Pandits cannot happen without widespread help of local muslims
Face it , several lakh Indian muslims are already active jihadist
Only foolish hindus are worrying about reprisals radicalising Indian muslims
In my previous post, I mentioned that there are 2 lakh active jihadist in kerala alone
To put this into context, the entire RSS has just 10 lakh members for all of India
and again the RSS has allocated heavily to kerala, and has 1 lakh members in kerala
One of the common mistakes that hindus make is that actively containing islam will cause civil disorder and disrupt economics
Pre partition, hindus and sikhs owned 90% of the property in pakistan and BD
and their wealth did not save them
Power flows out of the barrel of a gun
The economy can always recover look at USSR, Germany and Japan after WW2
Also current day hindus have been softened up by 55 years of peace
After 1948, hindu-muslim riots have been the lowest in 1000 years
and this is a short term aberration
israel will kill muslims or go for covert techniques (introduce disease etc) if need be, but will survive come hell or high water. their govt acts as one and if things become to threatenning they will enforce 1 child policy on non jews of israel (as it is a jew isnt allowed to marry a non jew in israe). i dont care how many examples are quoted from other parts of the world, it dont apply to the jews. they are like only themselves and unlike any other people. in another 20 odd years when the oil ends, the arabs will become the most expendable people on earth.
come whatever may, israel will survive forever. no two ways about that.
<!--QuoteBegin-ben_ami+Mar 12 2006, 12:24 PM-->QUOTE(ben_ami @ Mar 12 2006, 12:24 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->israel will kill muslims or go for covert techniques (introduce disease etc) if need be, but will survive come hell or high water.
----
Then why is Israel withdrawing from Gaza and much of west bank
-----
their govt acts as one and if things become to threatenning they will enforce 1 child policy on non jews of israel (as it is a jew isnt allowed to marry a non jew in israe).
----
You cannot get a religious marraige, but you can get a civil marraige
with a non-jew in Israel
I read, ( I cant find the URL , but trust me on this )
Israeli muslims snag 300 jewish women each year
( extrapolating from this, Indian muslims snag 60,000 hindu women a year )
----
i dont care how many examples are quoted from other parts of the world, it dont apply to the jews. they are like only themselves and unlike any other people. in another 20 odd years when the oil ends, the arabs will become the most expendable people on earth.
----
The external muslim is not the problem, the problem is the internal muslim
G.S
come whatever may, israel will survive forever. no two ways about that.
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<!--QuoteBegin-G.Subramaniam+Mar 12 2006, 01:05 PM-->QUOTE(G.Subramaniam @ Mar 12 2006, 01:05 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-ben_ami+Mar 12 2006, 12:24 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ben_ami @ Mar 12 2006, 12:24 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->israel will kill muslims or go for covert techniques (introduce disease etc) if need be, but will survive come hell or high water.
......................................
The external muslim is not the problem, the problem is the internal muslim
G.S
come whatever may, israel will survive forever. no two ways about that.
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well this is an india forum and this is an india thread but i will still answer - because india has a lot to learn from (the govt of) israel and because we have at least one major thing in common - that indians and israelis are two peoples who at last got hold of their own countries circa 1947.
your questions -
Then why is Israel withdrawing from Gaza and much of west bank.
>>>>>
to take the horse to the water. to make arabs see reason and settle for a peaceful solution. to ante up on the peace process. not because they are chicken - they can annex the whole middle east if they want - they have done it before - beaten the crap out of armies with 10 times numerical superiority and the advantage of the surprise element. besides these gaza and west bank they are withdrawing from are not part of the original israel and were annexted in the 6 day war. of course this land buffer saved their skin in the yom kippur war - but they wont need the buffer again because they now know that arabs can never be trusted and thus wont drop their guard even on festive days like yom kipppur. the israel that was formed in 1947 is the one that exists inside the green line.
civil marriage - you mean registered???
prohobited by law. a israeli jew CANT married a non jew.
i know a russian emmigrant jewess in israel who is giving up her citizenship to move to germany and marry her german bf (lol...jew marrying a german!!)
The external muslim is not the problem, the problem is the internal muslim
>>>>>>>>>>>>
israel will externalise those internal muslims, when push comes to shove. or equilise them. remember the west still suffers from the guilt of the holocaust. so israeliss will have special leeway and there will be no bosnia like american interference if ever israelis try a milosovic on their muslims.
listen - if israel could be destroyed... then they would have been destroyed many times over already by now. (THE SAME APPLIES TO INDIA AND HINDUISM BTW)
03-12-2006, 06:06 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2006, 06:08 PM by Bhootnath.)
FRIENDS , SO FATWA IS FOR DROPPING MUSLIM NAME AND NOT FOR STOPPING TERRORISM - WHAT DOES SECULAR PPL HAVE TO SAY ABT THIS ? EH .... HELLO PATAI SCHOLAR WHAT DO YAA SAY ... PISKOLOGY AND ALL THAT ..
Hyderabad, March 11: Muslim scholars in the city have taken offence to terrorists naming their organisations after the Prophet and Quranic references. In fatwas issued after Tuesdayâs Varanasi blasts carried out by the hitherto unknown Lashkar-e-Qahhar, Muslim scholars belonging to different religious institutions have demanded that terrorists drop the âIslamic tagsâ from their names as their activities are bringing ill-repute to Islam and the Muslims. Such a practice is Satanic, they say.
Lashkar-e-Qahhar, or Army of the Subduer, takes its name from Asma-ul-Husna, or the 99 beautiful names of Allah. Al-Qahhar is one of the attributes of Allah. Terrorist outfits like Jaish-e-Muhammad (Army of Muhammad) and Lashkar-e-Tayyaba (Army of the Righteous) are named after Prophet Muhammad. The Prophet is often referred to as Toiba or Tayyaba (the Righteous).
âEvery time these terrorist outfits carry out anti-national or inhuman activities, they drag the holy names into the controversy. This is but insulting Islam, the Quran and the holy personalities. We demand that terrorists drop the religious tags since what they are doing is not only irreligious but also against humanity,â said a fatwa by Mufti Muhammad Mastan Ali of Jamiat-ul-Mominath.
The All-India Muslim Personal Law Board has taken strong objection to the Lashkar-e-Qahhar setting off bombs at the Hanuman temple in Varanasi. Board general secretary Abdur Rahim Qureshi said it would launch a campaign against the terror outfits. He demanded a probe by a retired judge of the Supreme Court.
âWhat these terrorist organisations are doing is un-Islamic, as killing people goes against the tenets of Islam. They are a scourge on humanity and bring a bad name to Islam. We demand that they shun violence. An unholy act and crime against humanity will not become a pious deed by naming the organisation after holy personalities,â Mr Qureshi said. In separate decrees the All-India Jamiat-ul-Mashaiq and Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat have opined that misuse of Islamic names for terrorist and subversive activities is âSatanicâ.
Sunnat Jamaat all-India president Moulana Syed Shah Badruddin Quadri Al-Jeelani said Muslims were ashamed of these terrorist outfits. âWe are unable to move freely in society. Because of their wrong actions, the entire community is getting a bad name. They should not misuse Islam to foster their mindless violence,â he said in his decree.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Drop Islamic names, fatwa tells terrorists <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Certificate to kill is still on, but don't use my family name.
You can find lot of enlighten people who will support this fatwa call in other fora.
