01-24-2006, 01:32 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Were they any worse than the muslims that had invaded India in the past.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> Good point. But the nazis used the latest technology (gas chambers, etc) and performed cruel scientific experiments on their victims. Not that this is out of reach of The Faithful now, but it didn't happen during the centuries of invasions. So it might still have been outside of Vivekananda's imagination.
so murders have grown progressively more attrocious just cos technology got advanced?? early man used to kill with hammer blows and poison darts, turkics with swords and germans with gas chanbers and usa with depleted uranium - and the degree of attrocity is bigger cos the technology used is more?? strangling a person with bare hands is a lesser crime than blowing his hea off with a Uzi???
like i said, psychiatric treatment could come in handy.
There is in human, spiritual matters. This was wrong.
human spritual religious matters are not what is topmost in one's mind when one is fighting for his country, when one is fighting to throw out oppressors. by your token, simon bolivar, charles martel, rana pratap are all scoundrels cos they failed your dharmic acid test. dharma my ass - on the battle field, a army marches on its belly and wins cos of the number of kills it makes. patton was right (if you knoiw which quote i am alluding to). had that not been the case, than the pope could have fought the nazis and dalai lama could have defeated the commie chinese.
your stand is utopian, pseudo-dharmic and whats worse you dont even seem to realise it. btw, in the mahabharata, krishna's advice to arjun was to go and kill them - cos sometimes you got to, especially when your own life is at threat.
The choices we make and the reasons we have for making them matter very greatly. For example, Netaji can't explain away his choice to Krishna in such matters by stating "patriotism" as the reason. Wrong is wrong, it doesn't change from yesterage to this. International matters swing left and right minute by minute and are of no moment. Yesterday the Taliban were America's friend, today they are (officially) on their hitlist (unofficially the relationship's changed but little since the Cold War).
While we are here, we must consciously act and do the right thing. Netaji was either not aware of his choices or consciously made the wrong one. Either way, he was wrong.
he was well aware of hitler's contemp for asians. he was also aware that hitler and co wouldnt win.
he was also aware that if england won the war without being weakened considerably for it, then they would come back to hold on to their colonies with a vengence. so he knew that it was imperative to ensure that the colonised countries did their bit to ensure the oppressor got considerably weakened, and also knew the importance of indians to be prepared for it, should the english return. to both ends he was very successful - the recently declassified documents prove that england knew that their raj army was gone, when the allied soldiers teamed up with the hitler-netaji combine.
somehow i get the feeling that your pseudo-gandhian-dharmic-myopic-marxist stand is the most eveil of them all.
One can't say "his heart was in the right place" because if it were, he should have had the sense to do a bit more research into what he was getting himself and his blind followers into: why didn't he bother to find out what Hitler's views were on India's Independence? Either Netaji had no sense or he was wrong (neither case deserving of admiration) - and all he had was blind patriotism, if that. But that didn't save the country and never could have.
right. gandhi did save india though - by ensuring that thousands of indians died trying to save english lives, and then came nehru - india's reedeemer.
heard of DBP ?? one killer blow by the vietnamese send the french packing.
btw, boith your head and heart seem to be in the wrong places. do you like mother teresa and the love she had for all humanity??
Unconsidered actions for the cause of patriotism can result in serious consequences. What if Hitler had won? What if he came to India and took over? (Remember, Hitler was known for <i>not</i> keeping his word, eg. the Warsaw Pact). If he suffered any of us to live (I doubt it) we'd be kept under his thumb - far worse off than under the English. How long will Subhas Bose have been considered a hero?
forever. unless we become a nation of people like you.
question is how long will beevis and butthead be considered heros - and thats for making india a country of neutered wimps nad having NO hand whatsoever in our independence, except delaying it by a decade or more.
and hitler ould not have won - everyone knew that.
the thing is, had hitler lost, without first punching a hole through the colonial countries , - we would still have the english viceroy in delhi.
Having successfully displaced the British tyrants with the Hitler demon, I seriously doubt we'll have any gratitude for Bose - I don't think his begging Hitler to spare us would have had much effect either.
if you saw the pictures of netaji inspecting the ranks with field marshall Rommel for company, and then saw gandhi in his loincloth smiling ear to ear in front of the poms, you would know who went begging. btw, it was mussolini who started the netaji-axis alliance. mussolini knew that as long as england held on to india, they would be well supplied with natural resources - so a sure way to weaken the poms was to ensure that india (india-pakistan-burma-bangladesh) slipped out of pom hands. in nataji they found the person who could rise to the occation. and in the axis powers netaji found the people who could help him raise an indian army and supply themn with artellery, so that the english could be kicked out in one decisive war. and what better time to have a war than when the english were occupied with the german wiermacht and luftwaffe.
It certainly wouldn't for India's Jewish population.
ahh, so thats what bothers you??? india's jewish population?? non indians hindu population??? you are another romilla thapar in the making.
Hitler would probably have set the Muslims to kill us, like he used them to help the Ustashe kill the Serbs. Thank God that Hitler and nazism failed and nothing came of Bose's very misplaced enthusiasm.
thank god that people like you are a rare species.
i am yet to meet another indian who was so ill-informed about netaji.
Hitler couldn't stomache Jewish and Slavic people - both Caucasian people - who were "untermenschen" (subhumans) to him. He wanted the former dead and the second cleared away for "lebensraum". Now, I can't imagine how quickly he'd have wiped us - and the rest of the non-white people in the world - off the face of the Earth. And we'll have had Bose to thank for all of that.
and you have the jewish media or your lack of acumen to thank for that impeccable analysis of how netaji allied with the axis powers to ensure the indian population would get wiped away with the help of the muslims.
like i said, very rolimma thaparic arguements.
i dont believe that we still have indians, who think that gandhi was some great human being, who think shivaji was a hindu zealot and hate monger, who think ashoka was great cos he took to buddhism and thus rendered india gutless, who think that breaking babri masjid was bad, who think the muslims didnt deserved the godhra riots, while hindus deserved the hampi carnage, and who think netaji of all people, was unpatriotic and a bad strategist. somehow your ZOG-washed (and hog washed) halfwit arguements explain a lot about india's miserable state and why we are a nation of wimps. wimpicity has gone into our blood into our genes. we feel bad for the little crimes (eg- babri) that we commit once in a blue moon but very happily forget and forgive the hampis, the jalionwallah bags, the insults and the apartheid. we team up with the same english to fight the brave japanese - just so that we can free the poms from japanese prison camps in burma - so they can come back and colonise us some more. indians have their heads in their arse, their spine in the indian ocean , their hearts in their brain, and wear their servile attitude on their sleeves. they find hitler evil cos he killed jews, find usa evil cos it naplamed vietnam, find nataji to be a traitor cos he was killed by an anglo-nehru secret pact and could never return, indians find rahim to be ram's bhai after 800 years of wholesale killing, find the chinesee to be bhai-bhai after hammering india black and blue. damn we deserve to be killed. the world could do with a billion less wipms.
so murders have grown progressively more attrocious just cos technology got advanced?? early man used to kill with hammer blows and poison darts, turkics with swords and germans with gas chanbers and usa with depleted uranium - and the degree of attrocity is bigger cos the technology used is more?? strangling a person with bare hands is a lesser crime than blowing his hea off with a Uzi???
like i said, psychiatric treatment could come in handy.
There is in human, spiritual matters. This was wrong.
human spritual religious matters are not what is topmost in one's mind when one is fighting for his country, when one is fighting to throw out oppressors. by your token, simon bolivar, charles martel, rana pratap are all scoundrels cos they failed your dharmic acid test. dharma my ass - on the battle field, a army marches on its belly and wins cos of the number of kills it makes. patton was right (if you knoiw which quote i am alluding to). had that not been the case, than the pope could have fought the nazis and dalai lama could have defeated the commie chinese.
your stand is utopian, pseudo-dharmic and whats worse you dont even seem to realise it. btw, in the mahabharata, krishna's advice to arjun was to go and kill them - cos sometimes you got to, especially when your own life is at threat.
The choices we make and the reasons we have for making them matter very greatly. For example, Netaji can't explain away his choice to Krishna in such matters by stating "patriotism" as the reason. Wrong is wrong, it doesn't change from yesterage to this. International matters swing left and right minute by minute and are of no moment. Yesterday the Taliban were America's friend, today they are (officially) on their hitlist (unofficially the relationship's changed but little since the Cold War).
While we are here, we must consciously act and do the right thing. Netaji was either not aware of his choices or consciously made the wrong one. Either way, he was wrong.
he was well aware of hitler's contemp for asians. he was also aware that hitler and co wouldnt win.
he was also aware that if england won the war without being weakened considerably for it, then they would come back to hold on to their colonies with a vengence. so he knew that it was imperative to ensure that the colonised countries did their bit to ensure the oppressor got considerably weakened, and also knew the importance of indians to be prepared for it, should the english return. to both ends he was very successful - the recently declassified documents prove that england knew that their raj army was gone, when the allied soldiers teamed up with the hitler-netaji combine.
somehow i get the feeling that your pseudo-gandhian-dharmic-myopic-marxist stand is the most eveil of them all.
One can't say "his heart was in the right place" because if it were, he should have had the sense to do a bit more research into what he was getting himself and his blind followers into: why didn't he bother to find out what Hitler's views were on India's Independence? Either Netaji had no sense or he was wrong (neither case deserving of admiration) - and all he had was blind patriotism, if that. But that didn't save the country and never could have.
right. gandhi did save india though - by ensuring that thousands of indians died trying to save english lives, and then came nehru - india's reedeemer.
heard of DBP ?? one killer blow by the vietnamese send the french packing.
btw, boith your head and heart seem to be in the wrong places. do you like mother teresa and the love she had for all humanity??
Unconsidered actions for the cause of patriotism can result in serious consequences. What if Hitler had won? What if he came to India and took over? (Remember, Hitler was known for <i>not</i> keeping his word, eg. the Warsaw Pact). If he suffered any of us to live (I doubt it) we'd be kept under his thumb - far worse off than under the English. How long will Subhas Bose have been considered a hero?
forever. unless we become a nation of people like you.
question is how long will beevis and butthead be considered heros - and thats for making india a country of neutered wimps nad having NO hand whatsoever in our independence, except delaying it by a decade or more.
and hitler ould not have won - everyone knew that.
the thing is, had hitler lost, without first punching a hole through the colonial countries , - we would still have the english viceroy in delhi.
Having successfully displaced the British tyrants with the Hitler demon, I seriously doubt we'll have any gratitude for Bose - I don't think his begging Hitler to spare us would have had much effect either.
if you saw the pictures of netaji inspecting the ranks with field marshall Rommel for company, and then saw gandhi in his loincloth smiling ear to ear in front of the poms, you would know who went begging. btw, it was mussolini who started the netaji-axis alliance. mussolini knew that as long as england held on to india, they would be well supplied with natural resources - so a sure way to weaken the poms was to ensure that india (india-pakistan-burma-bangladesh) slipped out of pom hands. in nataji they found the person who could rise to the occation. and in the axis powers netaji found the people who could help him raise an indian army and supply themn with artellery, so that the english could be kicked out in one decisive war. and what better time to have a war than when the english were occupied with the german wiermacht and luftwaffe.
It certainly wouldn't for India's Jewish population.
ahh, so thats what bothers you??? india's jewish population?? non indians hindu population??? you are another romilla thapar in the making.
Hitler would probably have set the Muslims to kill us, like he used them to help the Ustashe kill the Serbs. Thank God that Hitler and nazism failed and nothing came of Bose's very misplaced enthusiasm.
thank god that people like you are a rare species.
i am yet to meet another indian who was so ill-informed about netaji.
Hitler couldn't stomache Jewish and Slavic people - both Caucasian people - who were "untermenschen" (subhumans) to him. He wanted the former dead and the second cleared away for "lebensraum". Now, I can't imagine how quickly he'd have wiped us - and the rest of the non-white people in the world - off the face of the Earth. And we'll have had Bose to thank for all of that.
and you have the jewish media or your lack of acumen to thank for that impeccable analysis of how netaji allied with the axis powers to ensure the indian population would get wiped away with the help of the muslims.
like i said, very rolimma thaparic arguements.
i dont believe that we still have indians, who think that gandhi was some great human being, who think shivaji was a hindu zealot and hate monger, who think ashoka was great cos he took to buddhism and thus rendered india gutless, who think that breaking babri masjid was bad, who think the muslims didnt deserved the godhra riots, while hindus deserved the hampi carnage, and who think netaji of all people, was unpatriotic and a bad strategist. somehow your ZOG-washed (and hog washed) halfwit arguements explain a lot about india's miserable state and why we are a nation of wimps. wimpicity has gone into our blood into our genes. we feel bad for the little crimes (eg- babri) that we commit once in a blue moon but very happily forget and forgive the hampis, the jalionwallah bags, the insults and the apartheid. we team up with the same english to fight the brave japanese - just so that we can free the poms from japanese prison camps in burma - so they can come back and colonise us some more. indians have their heads in their arse, their spine in the indian ocean , their hearts in their brain, and wear their servile attitude on their sleeves. they find hitler evil cos he killed jews, find usa evil cos it naplamed vietnam, find nataji to be a traitor cos he was killed by an anglo-nehru secret pact and could never return, indians find rahim to be ram's bhai after 800 years of wholesale killing, find the chinesee to be bhai-bhai after hammering india black and blue. damn we deserve to be killed. the world could do with a billion less wipms.