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Ancient Indian History
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->What The Ancient Did For Us - The INDIANS 3/6
the invention made by indians thousands of years ago like Plastic sergery, number system, astronomy, water clock etc.

This is a good program but the part about India hasn't been broadcasted here in Toronto.
<b>Sculpture of dancing Yakshas excavated in Hyderabad</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Hyderabad, Jan 01: A 2000-year-old aesthetically carved sculpture of dancing Yakshas has been excavated from a famous Buddhist site in the State's Krishna district close to a National Highway that runs between Vijayawada and Hyderabad.

The fragmented sculpture on a stone slab measuring 15 x10 x5 cm had once adorned the roof of the Maha Stupa at Gummadi Durru in the district.

The excavation is being carried out at the site for making it a destination for tourists interested in Buddhist studies, Superintending Archeologist and Director of Archeological Survey of India, Hyderabad circle, D Jitendar Das told reporters here.

Giving details of the recent exploration at the site, he said that the sculpture depicts the Yakshas playing instruments and dancing.

"The garments and facial expressions of the Yakshas in the sculpture are akin to the Amaravathi school of Buddhist art," he said.

The site was first discovered during the excavation made by East India Company during British Raj and has been unapproachable till recently as it was covered with thick bushes and shrubs.

After cutting the thick forest strip embracing a hillock at the site, ASI has taken up the excavation work for the conservation of the antiques, Das said<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Sri Krishna - The Strategist</b>
Neolithic site found in Nagaland
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->A settlement bearing deep incision marks on clay, coarse and gritty sandstone of what is believed to be holes made by poles and footprints, was discovered near Longtrok. A stone staircase, leading to a house, was also discovered close to the settlement.

Some partially weathered stone items, grinding stones and a variety of pottery pieces were also found.

Charcoal samples have been collected to establish the date of the civilisation. Soil samples have also been collected to look for traces of botanical remains

Significant finds at Dwaraka <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->CHENNAI: Ancient structural remains of some significance have been discovered at Dwaraka, under water and on land, by the Underwater Archaeology Wing (UAW) of the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI). Alok Tripathi, Superintending Archaeologist, UAW, said the ancient underwater structures found in the Arabian Sea were yet to be identified. "We have to find out what they are. <b>They are fragments. I would not like to call them a wall or a temple. They are part of some structure</b>," said Dr. Tripathi, himself a trained diver.

Thirty copper coins were also found in the excavation area. The structures found on land belonged to the medieval period. "We have also found 30 copper coins. We are cleaning them. After we finish cleaning them, we can give their date," he said.

Dwaraka is a coastal town in Jamnagar district of Gujarat. Traditionally, modern Dwaraka is identified with Dvaraka or Dvaravati, mentioned in the Mahabharata as Krishna's city. Dwaraka was a port, and some scholars have identified it with the island of Barka mentioned in the Periplus of Erythrean Sea. Ancient Dwaraka sank in sea and hence is an important archaeological site.

The first archaeological excavations at Dwaraka were done by the Deccan College, Pune and the Department of Archaeology, Government of Gujarat, in 1963 under the direction of H.D. Sankalia. It revealed artefacts many centuries old.

<b>The ASI conducted a second round of excavations in 1979 under S.R. Rao's direction. He found a distinct pottery known as lustrous red ware, which could be more than 3,000 years old</b>. Based on the results of these excavations, the search for the sunken city in the Arabian Sea began in 1981. Scientists and archaeologists have continually worked on the site for 20 years.

The UAW began excavations at Dwaraka again from January 2007. Dr. Tripathi said: "To study the antiquity of the site in a holistic manner, excavations are being conducted simultaneously both on land [close to the Dwarakadhish temple] and undersea so that finds from both the places can be co-related and analysed scientifically."

The objective of the excavation is to know the antiquity of the site, based on material evidence. In the offshore excavation, the ASI's trained underwater archaeologists and the divers of the Navy searched the sunken structural remains. The finds were studied and documented.

On land, the excavation is being done in the forecourt of the Dwarakadhish temple. Students from Gwalior, Lucknow, Pune, Vadodara,Varanasi and Bikaner are helping ASI archaeologists. In the forecourt, old structures including a circular one have been found. A small cache of 30 copper coins was discovered. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are also some nice photos...
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jan 22 2007, 08:57 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jan 22 2007, 08:57 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Sri Krishna - The Strategist</b>

Thanks ram. An absolute must-read!

http://www.atln.org/ <!--emo&:unsure:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='unsure.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Lots of stuff to read....
<!--QuoteBegin-Sonugn+Feb 23 2007, 04:56 PM-->QUOTE(Sonugn @ Feb 23 2007, 04:56 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->THE HORSE SACRIFICE

http://www.atln.org/ <!--emo&:unsure:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='unsure.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Lots of stuff to read....

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Meaning of the Sacred Syllable OM
The yoni of the female is, as we just said, equated in India to the lotus (or padma). Indeed, the mantra OM MANI PADME HUM! means a lot more than just: <b>"Rise, Oh Jewel in the Lotus" as is frequently asserted. Rather, its mystic meaning is "Rise, O Phallus, from the Vagina".</b> Its real symbolism is Cosmic, as we said above. It indeed refers to the rising again of Atlantis, characterized by its Holy Mountain (Mt. Atlas or Meru), from the Cosmic Yoni, the Great Abyss where it sunk away, in the dawn of times, some 9,600 years ago.4

This is about more than just horse sacrifice. IT IS HORSE MANURE.
<b>Another Harappan site discovered in Saurashtra</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Harappan site discovered in Rohtak district </b>
Chandigarh, March. 2 (PTI): A Harappan site with painted grey ware artifacts has been discovered near a village in Rohtak district in Haryana.

The site with painted grey ware remains dating back to the Mahabharata period has been discovered at village Girawad on the Madina-Samargopalpur road, in Rohtak district, Haryana Minister of State for Archives, Archaeology and Museums Meena Mandal said here today.

She said the site was found on February 19, this year by a research scholar Vivek Dangi, under a team led by deputy director J S Khatri. The team proceeded from Meham towards Madina and discovered the site at village Girawad.

Mandal said the site was spread over an area of 25 acres and rose about 1.5 metres in height from the ground.

"Material culture available from the site indicates that the economy of Girawad was based on agriculture. Boundary wall, early Harappan pottery, furnaces and other antiquities found during surface explorations are sufficient evidence to prove its antiquity to that of early Harappan times," she said.

Mandal said that as many as 45 early-Harappan and Harappan sites had so far been discovered on the ancient river bed of Drishadvati and its tributaries in Meham Block itself.

"It means that this area was thickly inhabited during Harappan times. The discovery of large number of Harappan and painted grey ware sites in the Satluj-Yamuna divide would help the archaeologist in providing evidences to complete the missing links of the Indian history," she said.

Mandal said a vast stretch of present day Haryana where the now dried Saraswati river flowed presented remnants of Harappan civilisation.

came in email:


I saw the beautiful 29 min. video by www.gosai.com narrated by Visnu. (Some of the articles on this site are very good). The video is very nice. More audio-visual aids like these, together with small booklets on various facets of Hindu civilization will provide a good grounding to the youngest nation of the world (with 35% of population less than 15 years of age) and in particular, to the Hindu children of America.

By and large, the video presentation is factual and should inspire young minds to inquire further. I don't want to nitpick on a few points here and there which can lead to arguments about veracity of claims made or inferences drawn.(It is, however, important to remove some inaccuracies so that the credibility of the reporting is not diluted; e.g issues like atomic explosions of proto-historic periods). The total effect created by the narration is impressive.

I am very happy that sanatanadharmafoundation has taken the initiative of setting up a radio station. I have so far made presentations on River Sarasvati researches in 3 parts thanks to the focus provided by Kalyan ji Viswanathan who interviewed me.

As I mentioned in one of these talk-shows, there is a need for a multi--disciplinary coordination of studies on Sarasvati heritage organized by private initiatives.

Some video/audio links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cc8ohG7T9Q Sarasvati River 8 min.

http://www.sanatanadharmafoundation.com/im...%203%202007.mp3 Discovery of Saraswathi River - Part B

http://www.sanatanadharmafoundation.com/im...2024%202007.mp3 Discovery of Saraswathi River – Part A

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=85...3&q=vedic&hl=en Vedic Science 11 min.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3...1&q=vedic&hl=en Vedic psychology, Part 1 1 hr. 31 min.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=21...0&q=vedic&hl=en Vedic psychology, Part 2 4 min.

http://www.sanatanadharmafoundation.com/im...2024%202007.mp3 Ancient India 29 min.

http://www.podbazaar.com/view/144115188075856002 History, whose story? and other audio clips by Mona Vijayakar (India in classrooms).
Link to Saraswati- the ancinet river lost in the desert

from Current Science.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Current Science link: 
Recent studies have shown that the <b>onset of an arid climate occurred in two pulses – at 4700–3700 and at 2000–1700 BC26,</b> both of which had fairly wide impact not only in India in the desertification of western Rajasthan but in other countries also, like Africa in the development of Saharan and Nubian deserts. <b>The desertification is thought to have occurred 5400 y ago (3400 BC) </b>and its onset greatly affected the monsoon rains and consequently the river systems too. The change from wetter to arid condition destroyed steadily the vegetation, which in turn affected soil moisture, its evaporation, atmospheric circulation and precipitation, all important links in the monsoon evolution chain and, ultimately the climate over the region. However, a recent study48 of water-table fluctuations and radiocarbon estimates from the Lunkansar Lake deposit do not support the views about aridity around 3500 BC, the period when Saraswati and Indus Valley culture were thought to have collapsed. Th<b>e chronology emerging from these studies show that the once perennial lakes had ceased to be so and they had dried and desiccated more than 1500 y before the dated collapse of the civilization.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The RV is pre-Harappan. It knows no urban structures or ruins thereof; no rice vrÉhi, no cotton karpÄsa, no brick iêçakÄ, no fixed fire-hearths/altars – all elements present in the late Indus-SarasvatÉ culture and post-Rigvedic texts. The river SarasvatÉ dried definitely c 1900 BC, according to geological and palaeoenvironmental studies (Rao 1991: 77-9; Allchins 1997: 117). <b>However, G. Possehl concludes that it could have reached the ocean only before 3200 and more probably c 3800 </b>(1998; so also Francfort 1992). So those hymns that praise the SarasvatÉ as “best river naditamÄ ”(II, 41, 16), having the ∞rya tribes settled along its bank (VI, 61, 8-10, 12) or flowing to the ocean (VII, 95, 2) must belong to a period before 3200 and perhaps 3800!    Kazanas VMCI link<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Telegraph, Kolkota, 26 March 2007

Crop clues in pre-historic cave - Scientists stumble on millet and grass remains in human shelter

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Crop clues in pre-historic cave
- Scientists stumble on millet and grass remains in human shelter 
New Delhi, March 26: <b>Deep inside a limestone cave in the forested hills of the Kan-ger Valley National Park in Chhattisgarh, scientists have stumbled upon a pre-historic human shelter holding the remains of fire, millets and wild grass.</b>

Pieces of charcoal, the millets and grass, and burnt earth found inside the cave in Bastar district may bolster the case for early domestication of crops in eastern India, the scientists said.

Geologists from Ahmedabad and Lucknow found the charcoal and the crop residues nearly three years ago while exploring limestone caves in Kanger to look for chemical signatures of ancient monsoon patterns. <b>They have now determined through radiocarbon dating studies that the age of the charcoal ranges from 6,940 years to 4,030 years.</b>

“The depth and the darkness at which we found the charcoal and the millets is surprising,” said Madhusudan Yadava, a scientist at the Physical Research Laboratory in Ahmedabad who helped assign dates to the charcoal.

The mouth of the cave is so narrow an adult has to crawl in. But it widens into passages and chambers, and <b>the scientists found the charcoal and crop residues 100 m from the mouth.</b>

Yadava and his colleagues dug a shallow trench to examine the material buried under sediments in the cave. They did not find any human artefacts or tools, or any sign of artwork often found in cave shelters elsewhere in the world.

“It must have been hard to get inside, but prehistoric people ventured into the darkest interiors of the cave,” Yadava told The Telegraph.

It is possible that the darkness, humidity and the suffocating environment was not conducive enough to cave art, he said.

<b>The presence of grains and seeds indicates domestication of plants and initiation of agricultural activity in the region, the researchers said in a report that appeared in the journal Current Science yesterday.</b>

“These crop residues suggest that domestication of crops emerged more or less around the same time in several places in the subcontinent,” said Indra Bir Singh, a senior geologist at Lucknow University and a team member.

<b>A scientist at the Birbal Sahni Institute of Paleobotany in Lucknow identified three grasses and two millets among the crop residues. Tribals in the Bastar region cultivate or gather the same millet variety even today.</b>

<b>The earliest evidence of farming in the subcontinent comes from Mehrgarh in the Baluchistan plains (Pakistan), where archaeologists had detected in the 1970s clues that barley and wheat had been cultivated 9,000 years ago.</b>

In the past, archaeologists had suggested the practice of cultivation moved as ancient people migrated and settled in new territories. But, in recent years, new evidence has given rise to the idea of multiple origins of agriculture.

<b>Previous studies by Singh and his colleagues had shown that rice was being cultivated almost 8,500 years ago near a lake close to Basti in Uttar Pradesh.</b>

“The millets we found inside the cave in Bastar had to be carried inside from swamps,” Singh said. “This opens up the possibility of some level of domestication.”

The scientists have suggested archaeological excavations in the cave, which is a tourist attraction.

“Archaeological studies and controls on the movement of tourists inside the cave may be required,” Yadava said.

So this is pre or Harappan contemporary site.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Sep 29 2006, 05:43 AM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Sep 29 2006, 05:43 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='color:red'>Hero stones of third century BC found on the bank of the river Vaigai about 16 km south of Batlagundu, TN</span>

1. Experts, what is the significance of this?
2. Did the ancient Indians always bury the dead?  If so, when did the custom change to burning the dead bodies?
3. WHy is Ford Foundation funding such archeological research?

Here is a recent reference by RM regarding the Ford Foundation:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> .... Its not a valid assumption that US is naive/ignorant about its
sponsorship of the indian left. <b>Co-opting the third world Left became
the explicit strategy of ford foundation after world war 2, with
active cooperation from CIA etc .....</b> link<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>India seeks inclusion of Rig Veda manuscripts in UNESCO</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->India has sought the inclusion of 30 manuscripts of the Rig Veda, kept at the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, Pune, in UNESCO’s Memory of the World Register (MOW).

The manuscript collection at the institute has in the recent past been subjected to threat under public vandalism, provoked by some political organisations,the physical condition of the manuscript is already poor with brittleness and edges of pages cracking in some.

In view of the perilous state of documentary heritage worldwide, UNESCO established the MOW programme in 1992 with the vision that the world’s documentary heritage belongs to all and should be fully preserved and protected and "be permanently accessible to all without hindrance".

It thus facilitates preservation by the most appropriate techniques, assists universal access and increases awareness worldwide of the existence and significance of documentary heritage.

India has sought the nomination of Rigveda as "one of the wonders of the world" because it has "preserved for us intact ,not only a vibrant expression of human imagination ,aspiration, ambition and ideology more than three thousand years old but also the aesthetics of expression in terms of sound, intonation and accent".

A collection of poems, prayers and songs sung by the Aryans mainly in praise of nature and its bounty,in all its various manifestation, Rigveda is the oldest among the four Vedas traditionally regarded as the pillars of Indian culture,it said in the nomination.

This collection of Rigveda manuscript is unique owing to the fact that it contains at least five manuscripts which have preserved the complete text of the Rigveda which belongs to antiquity and certainly not later than the second millennium Before Christ Era.

Thirteen manuscripts in this collection contain one of the oldest available commentaries on the text, a valuable aid to interpret the Rigveda. Five manuscripts also provide the traditional word analysis of the text "Padapatha". But for these aids understanding the text of the Rigveda would have been quite difficult.

Language of parts of the Rigveda proves indisputably that it is the oldest text available to us in any part of the world, itn added.

So important was this collection in interpreting and understanding the ancient literary work the Rigveda that the great Indologist Prof.F. Max Muller himself used one of the complete manuscripts in this collection for his pioneering translation of the complete text and commentary in 1849.

The collection consists of a rare manuscript written in Sharada script in vogue during medieval period in Kashmir and birch bark procured from Kashmir where no such manuscript is available now.

India’s nomination form has been filed on behalf of the Mission Director National Mission for Manuscripts Sudha Goapalakrishnan and honorary secretary of Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, Pune, MG Dadphale.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Wooden piece at Dwarka site to tell all... date, time </b>
Express News Service, May 5, 2007
Rajkot, May 4: Archaeologists are excited about a circular wooden structure found underwater at a near-shore excavation site off the coast of Jamnagar. Thought to be the remains of the lost city of ancient Dwarka, the wooden structure is well preserved and surrounded by another structure made of stone blocks.

"It is significant as scientific dating of wood, which is carbon, is possible. This was not the case with evidences like stone, beads, glass and terracota found earlier," said Alok Tripathi, Superintending Archeologist, Underwater Archeology Wing of Archaeological Survey of India.

The dating of submerged ruins off the coast of Dwarka has been matter of debate for since long. Archaeologists and historians have been at loggerhead about the period when these structures were built and have claimed various dates about the origin and decay of one of the most scared places in India. Answers to questions like when did Lord Krishna set up his kingdom in Dwarka? When did the "Golden City" submerge in the sea? — were based on the interpretations of these scholars and no material evidence had so far been found so that these structures could be scientifically dated.

<b>"Though excavation at Dwarka has been carried out a number of times, this is for the first time a wooden block has been found, and this is going to help us almost pin-point a time frame and give some credible answers,"</b> said Tripathi.

This piece was found during a near-shore excavation carried out in the southwest region of Samudranarayan Temple. The structure is made of stone and wood. The underwater archaeologist carried out diving in shallow water and studied the technique of joining these blocks in detail. The blocks were joined so well with the help of wooden dowels and nails that they remained in situ (in position) despite heavy surfs and strong current for a long period.

"The collected samples will be sent to different laboratories. We expect the results to come as soon as possible," said Tripathi.

<b>According to ancient literature the ancient Dwarka city had submerged in the sea. The Underwater Archaeology Wing (UAW) of the Archaeological Survey of India undertook systematic study of Dwarka about two years back. After a thorough analysis of earlier research and extensive fieldwork, UAW started archaeological excavation at Dwarka from January 1, 2007 to know the antiquity of the site based on scientific study of the material evidence.</b>

Christo HT can't leave well alone:
<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Apr 2 2007, 10:39 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Apr 2 2007, 10:39 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>India seeks inclusion of Rig Veda manuscripts in UNESCO</b><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
(About Rg Vedam) A collection of poems, prayers and songs sung by the <b>Aryans</b> mainly in praise of nature and its bounty...
This collection of Rigveda manuscript is unique owing to the fact that it contains at least five manuscripts which have preserved the complete text of the Rigveda which belongs to antiquity and certainly not later than the second millennium <b>Before Christ Era.
</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->[right][snapback]66448[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Era of christ is utterly unknown as there's no evidence for any christ. Same goes for AIT: what AIT? But both are assumed as fact by lying christoterrorist HT.
Christianism gets more than merely benefit of the doubt (there is only doubt about christoism). Whereas Hindu literature - that until about 2-3 centuries ago was not known to have any alien origins (and no Oryans were invented until then) - is immediately classed as having some Oryan origins by this 'Indian' paper.

Also, <i>even when AIT is considered</i>, Rg Veda was only ever composed in India. So why's HT writing about its Japethic Oryan Idols without specifying the Rg Veda's definite Indian nationality at least? A bit too overtly christian today, aren't we?
Telugu words found in Hebrew literature
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->1794 BC stone tablet established that the Sumerian-Assyrian culture had its roots in Andhra Pradesh <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Side question:
Bhartavarsh/Ramana: The TV serial Ravan has sage Vishrava's hertimage in "Andharalay". Any links to modern day AP?

On 3/22/07, Radha Rajan <radharajan7@...> wrote:
> Rajiv, will sending the vigil NGO book to selective sensitive american govet
> establishments help to wisen them up to the presence of communists in the
> american womb? if so let me know and i will courier, the second edition, as
> many copies as you want, it will be expense well worth the effort if the
> american extablishment can throw some kind of spanner in their works. RR

Radha, not so simple as it seems - per your email below.

Its not a valid assumption that US is naive/ignorant about its
sponsorship of the indian left. Co-opting the third world Left became
the explicit strategy of ford foundation after world war 2, with
active cooperation from CIA etc. Why? one must understand this...Our
folks are too naive because they dont believe in enough purvapaksha of
the others except in superficial ways. US has and will play both sides
on most third world conflicts - see iraq, pakistan, the british
history in india. Which is why the russians threw out western
missionaries, china does not allow human rights interference by
foreign funding/influence - THESE (china/russia, etc) are topics of
great importance in reports on foreign funding of indian ngo's,
because many middle-of-the-road desis do get influenced by
china/russia as reference points

the present axis of left-islam-christianity against hinduism is
weakest in the islam-christian clash globally. THIS has not been
utilized by hindus though i mentioned it a few times. The pat
robertson brigade has all the anti-islam masala one can imagine. at
the same time the islamic side has all the anti-christian rhetorec.
But india in the ONLY large country where they are being held together
(by the left incharge) because there is a common enemy - enough food
for all predators since the elephant is very large, unmanaged and

sending your ngo book will not help by itself without a bigger/broader
context in place first.

for the april event, the report that was done 2 years ago as rejoinder
to the anti-idrf report must get distributed to attendees even though
the orgsanizers of the event will try to block this. the HAF reports
on hindu human rights and gautier's reports on hindu holocaust must be
given out also. As part of such a package your NGO report belongs.
But most of all, there have to be bright courageous indian youth
participating, who are well versed in all this subject matter. and who
can raise objections from the floor citing these works as evidence.

The latest target of the left-islamist-christianevangelist axis is the
hindu diaspora, because these are selfempowered indians outside of
indian politics. Hence:
-- prema kurien has been bred as 'diaspora' expert (she will give a
talk at the madison conf on south asia);
-- jack hawley's 'hinduism here' project at columbia does surveillance
of hindu groups in usa using students;
-- the anti-IDRF report was done in this context;
-- various attacks on the california textbook matter shows how
organized they are.



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