Ancient Indian History

01-16-2008, 09:55 PM

Evidence of jallikattu in the Indus Valley emergesQUOTECHENNAI: âJallikattu,â which is bull-baiting or bull fighting, is an ancient Dravidian tradition that was practised about 4,000 years ago during the Indus Valley civilisation. 

A well-preserved seal found at Mohenjodaro in the 1930s attests to this, according to Iravatham Mahadevan, a specialist in Indus and Brahmi scripts.

This seal realistically brings alive a vigorous scene of bull-fighting. It portrays a ferocious bull in action, several men or a single man (according to two different interpretations), thrown in the air by it as they try to control it.

Clearly, the bull is the victor. This seal, made of stone, is on display in the National Museum, New Delhi. It can be dated to 2,000 B.C., Mr. Mahadevan said. Several scholars had commented upon this seal as portraying bull-baiting during the Indus civilisation, he added.

Jallikattu is in the news after the Supreme Court on January 11 declined to give permission to Tamil Nadu Government and some villages for the conduct of this sport. It is traditionally organised in the State during Pongal which falls on January 15 this year.

The seal found at Mohenjodaro, now in Pakistan, shows a single bull with curved horns in the âactionâ of goring a single man or several men. Its horns are shown in the middle to depict the speed and fluency of its action: the angry bull has suddenly turned its neck sideways to toss the daring men and then its neck has come to its original position.

The seal has used the frieze technique to portray the charged atmosphere. There were two interpretations to what was engraved on the seal, Mr. Mahadevan said. One school is of the opinion that the seal shows several men, who tried to control the bull, thrown up in the air by the animal. A couple of men are shown flying in the air with their legs and hands spread out, a third man is seen jumping to grab the bull, another is somersaulting and yet another has pathetically come to rest on his haunch.

Mr. Mahadevan, however, is of the opinion that the seal shows only one man, who is flung into the air by the bull, his flying, his plunging, his somersaulting and finally sitting on his haunch.

A colour photograph of this seal is found at No. M 312 in The Corpus of Indus Seals and Inscriptions, Volume 1, edited by Asko Parpola and others.

There is no script on the seal. Mr. Mahadevanâs The Indus Script: Texts, Concordance and Tables, is a seminal book on the Indus script. It was published in 1977 by the Archaeological Survey of India. He has also published Corpus of the Tamil-Brahmi Inscriptions (1966).

Bull-baiting figures in the Mahabharatha, which describes Krishna controlling a ferocious bull in the forecourt of Kamsaâs palace.

Outside India, bull-baiting is practised in Spain and Portugal.

01-17-2008, 12:01 AM

QUOTEIt can be dated to 2,000 B.C.,
It means it was not gifted to Dravids by Aryans who came on horses, carvans and wrote Vedas on hilltop and taught Dravids how to do agriculture?

Bharatvarsh · 01-17-2008, 04:03 AM

QUOTEIt means it was not gifted to Dravids by Aryans who came on horses, carvans and wrote Vedas on hilltop and taught Dravids how to do agriculture? 
They have now shifted the date of this supposed "invasion" to even earlier and have changed it to "migration", anything will do as long as their pet theory gets to survive in one form or another.

dhu · 01-17-2008, 05:15 AM

Like a good sepoy, Mahadevan will go down with the ship. He openly admits that the central harrapan cult object was a soma filter yet denies the obvious conclusions.

ramana · 01-17-2008, 05:25 AM

QUOTE(dhu @ Jan 16 2008, 11:45 PM)Like a good sepoy, Mahadevan will go down with the ship.Â He openly admits that the central harrapan cult object was a soma filter yet denies the obvious conclusions.
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Sorry for being dense but what does it mean? Or were you sarcastic?

dhu · (This post was last modified: 01-17-2008, 08:08 AM by dhu.)

I was referring to Mahadevan's Interview where he says that the cult object can only be the vedic soma filter but then proceeds to deny the vedic identity of the harrapans. But I agree it is probably unfair to label him as a sepoy.

see section 3. The Cult Object:
http://www.harappa.com/script/mahadevantext.html#3

01-25-2008, 08:02 PM

The Indian Self-Image in the Fourth Century B.C.
QUOTEGreek and Latin sources provide indications of how the Greeks perceived the Indians, and how the Indians perceived themselves, in or around the fourth century B.C.
QUOTEIt is clear then that already in the fourth century B.C. the Indian self-perception of being a diverse, indigenous and ancient people must have been firmly in place, and was reported as such by the Greeks.

**acharya** · 01-26-2008, 05:20 AM

QUOTEThe Indic civilisation
Saturday, January 26, 2008
Ishtiaq Ahmed
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=92945

Today's article coincides with India's declaration as a republic in 1950. The civilisational roots of modern India are always worth discussing, because despite all the odds against it -- the caste system, poverty and hunger, illiteracy and other such debilitating factors -- it became a democracy and has remained so.

Civilisation denotes a complex society with distinct cultural and ideational features that takes shape in the long, historical process through the division of labour and a concomitant social hierarchy. Therefore, civilisations cannot be understood only in contemporaneous terms; historical antecedents and legacy weigh heavily in forming the present. On the other hand, civilisations are also dynamic and change, adjust and transform, while retaining links with the past.

Studying civilisations is a daunting task. I admire the courage of the veteran journalist and writer, Reginald Massey, born in Lahore to a Punjabi Christian family of Sikh Jatt origin, educated at the St. Anthony's High School in Lahore and later in India, and who now lives in an idyllic village in Wales. He has taken up the challenge and acquitted himself admirably.

His book, India: Definitions and Clarification (Hertford: Hansib, 2007) is a tour de force of truly encyclopaedic proportions. The book, however, is not exclusively about the current geographical entity called the Republic of India; it is about the historical, cultural and civilisational entity: the Indic civilisation. It includes not only India but also Pakistan and other states in this region. The Indic civilisation bears influence of not only Hinduism but also Buddhism, Jainism, Islam, Sikhism, Christianity and indeed the modern period of secular rationalism and scepticism. It is pluralistic in its deepest ethos.

The author makes the interesting observation that the Aryans called the main river they confronted when they entered the plains of the subcontinent, Sindhu, which is known as River Sindh and is the lifeblood of today's Pakistan. However, in Persian and Greek usage it began to be pronounced without the "s" at the beginning and over time the people who lived in the valley of the Indus River and east of it began to be called Hindus.

The Aryans crossed into the Indo-Gangetic Plain where they established their stronghold, but the whole region from Afghanistan to the lower Ganges was named by them as Aryavarta. That name, however, did not get established. Rather this region became famous as Hindustan.

The central thesis Massey sets forth is that the caste system has been the ultimate organising principle of the social, political and economic life in the subcontinent. The author condemns it in the strongest terms as it compartmentalised, society and established strict hierarchy. Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru, himself a Kashmiri Brahmin and thus belonging to the highest place in the caste hierarchy, made no secret of his abhorrence for the caste system.

Therefore, Nehru saw to it that Dr Ambedkar, the leader of the so-called Untouchables, who prefer to be called Dalits, was made chairperson of the committee that prepared the Indian Constitution. The constitution gives equal rights to all citizens, irrespective of caste. That has been the basis for India becoming a democracy, though in the wider society prejudices against the Dalits and lower castes still abound. The author narrates many anecdotes that highlight the continuing humiliation faced by the Dalits in contemporary India.

He observes that the caste system continued to fashion social hierarchy even among the followers of Islam and Christianity. Thus, among Muslims the distinction between the ashraf (superior) and the ajlaf (low-born) meant that they existed as two separate communities, while Christians who converted from Brahmin or other superior castes avoided contact with low-caste Christians.

The author examines northern and southern Indian societies over the historical period. We learn about important dynasties that came to power and what legacy they have left behind. Some Hindu dynasties were founded by men of humble origin who had themselves promoted to the second highest caste of the Kshatriyas through bribery and coercion.

The book compares the three leading personalities of the freedom struggle -- Mahatma Gandhi, Mohammad Ali Jinnah and Jawaharlal Nehru. Each is treated with fairness. The author thinks that Jinnah was a brilliant leader, without whom Pakistan would most probably never have come into being, and it is Nehruvian secularism which he believes has helped India remain a democratic polity.

He reserves scathing criticism for the ruling classes of both India and Pakistan. He writes: "The corrupt ruling classes of both India and Pakistan have done an excellent job in that they have succeeded in fooling the masses of their respective countries. Their success in this enterprise was, of course, assured since the majority of the people on both sides of the border are poor, superstitious, gullible, illiterate and an easy prey to state propaganda and the poisonous rantings of religious bigots"

Reginald Massey is currently writing a follow-up volume, in which he wants to probe the directions the South Asian region could take in the future. He is optimistic about the youths of this region, which he believes want to move on, rather than remain hostage to past conflicts and rivalries.

In this regard, it would be interesting to examine more closely if the Laws of Manu or the Constitution of Ambedkar is winning. Also, I hope he visits Lahore where he was born and about which he is so very proud. It would be interesting to know what he thinks happened to Jinnah's Pakistan.

The writer is a professor of political science and a visiting senior research fellow at the Institute of South Asian Studies (ISAS), National University of Singapore. Email: isasia@nus.edu.sg

**acharya** · (This post was last modified: 02-09-2008, 03:39 AM by acharya.)

Ancient Ruins in Indian Ocean
When the tsunami waters drew back into the ocean of the coast of India (sorry, I don't know the exact location, and yes, this was during the tsunami) a few people claimed to have seen the ruins of a great city. With dozens of temples and other buildings. What little reports there are on it say that this is the remains of sunken Atlantis. I was thinking that more practically it could one of the Seven Rishi Cities, or atleast one of the Rama Empire.

Archeologist claim that on underwater excavations they found only a few temples and not much more than that. But these witnesses say that they saw more than that. I was wondering if anyone knew more than this or even heard about this?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My Note: Note the picture of the Lion-Head. Another Sphinx-Like Object from the Ancient World...

Separate confirmation;
From;
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7221921/
"The Associated Press
Updated: 3:54 p.m. ET March 17, 2005
MAHABALIPURAM, India - For a few minutes, after the water had receded far from the shore and before it came raging back as a tsunami, the fishermen stood along the beach and stared at the reality of generations of legends.
Or so they say. Spread across nearly a mile, the site was encrusted with barnacles and covered in mud. But the fishermen insist they saw the remains of ancient temples and hundreds of refrigerator-sized blocks, all briefly exposed before the sea swallowed them up again.
"You could see the destroyed walls covered in coral, and the broken-down temple in the middle," said Durai, a sinewy fisherman who, like many south Indians, uses only one name. "My grandfathers said there was a port here once and a temple, but suddenly we could see it was real, we could see that something was out there."
Whatever they saw is back under water and out of sight. But a few hundred yards away, something else came to the surface. The tsunami scrubbed away six feet of sand from a section of beach, uncovering a small cluster of long-buried boulders carved with animals, gods and servant girls."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From;
Tsunami unveils seven pagodas
www.hvk.org/articles/0305/40.html
Author: Swati Das
Publication: The Times of India
Date: February 25, 2005
URL: timesofindia.indiatimes.c...032004.cms
Call it a blessing in disguise. Or a tsunami surprise. The trail of destruction has given a ray of hope to archaeologists in this temple town, who are already on an exciting excavation mission. And, the big question: Is the legend of seven pagodas coming to a reality?
As the killer tsunami waves receded, it also gulped the sand deposits only to unveil a line of rocks 500 metres from the Shore temple. The neat arrangement of rocks with man-made features could turn out to be another cave temple of the Pallava era (8th century). The naval diving team, assisting the Archaeological Society of India, also discovered another structure perhaps a temple 100 metres north-east.
"The sonar system indicates that there are structures under the sand and sea. We are exploring it. We are also exploring the exposed relics on the shore," says superintending archaeologist T Sathyamurthy.
The excavations of the existing temple are being supervised by ASI underwater archaeology wing (Delhi), deputy superintending archaeologist Alok Tripathi. "I can tell you where the walls and the main building structures are. Only after the structure is exposed, can we tell you if its a temple or a housing structure. The tsunami has given us a new angle to find how these structures were buried," he said. So far, his team has found a round gopuram-shaped top and rocky walls.
Commander A K Sharma of Indian Naval Command Diving team claims that the structures have striking resemblance with the legendary painting of the seven pagodas (or seven temples). "We know for sure that a temple is going to emerge from the excavation site. We have found another temple close to the shore and also located a slab believed to be the pedestal on which the deity was placed," he said.
The excavation news has given enough fodder for the fishing folk, who doesnt leave any time in claiming that the structures are definitely that of five temples believed to have been submerged long back.
Says commanding officer of INS Ghorpad, Lt Commander Satyendra Vaidya: "We have recovered prominent objects of archaeological importance. A temple-shaped structure has been discovered during one of the dives. Then came a square structure resembling a sanctum sanctorum. It is covered with marine growth and the centre is buried under silt."
The INS Ghorpad team also found some artifacts belonging to the temple site. Carved relics depicting lions and elephant were exposed by the tsunami further down south of the excavation site. These rocks were visible earlier too, but not as clearly as now, showing sharp carvings.
The excavation-exploration was started in 2001, with February-March being the action-packed months. The current mission will go on till March 25 and the archaeologists are a excited lot with ever piece of breaking news, from down under.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you can all see (from the article Posted below DATED JULY 6, 2002), this Discovery aint new.

From;
Clues to missing pagodas found (INDIA TIMES);
www1.timesofindia.indiati...d=15199261
NEW DELHI: Submerged structures found off the coast of Mahabalipuram in the Bay of Bengal could well solve the mystery of seven pagodas dating back to the Pallava Period (7th Century AD).

The Archaeological Survey of Indias Underwater Archaeology Wing (UAW) has discovered three walls and a number of carved architectural members of ancient temples running north to south and east to west. Also found are seven big submerged rocks 500 metres off shore.
According to UAW in-charge Alok Tripathi, who undertook the diving 500 metres east and north of the Shore temple in November 2001 and March this year, the walls are made of thick slabs of granite. Two long stone slabs, eachwith two vertical slits to receive two other stone slabs, were kept upright. Several such blocks arranged in a row formed a wall.
The technique of construction, he says, is so effective that these structures are still in place despite violent sea and high-energy surf.
The remnants are well carved and look like mouldings and pillars of temple. They are similar to the carvings in the existing temples of Mahabalipuram, he says. Tripathi is hopeful of discovering more structures near the Shore temple. The ASI is planning to undertake diving towards the south of the temple.
We are planning to dive during the Tamil month of Tai which falls between December and January. We will trace the extension of submerged structures and clean them to reconfirm our conclusion about their nature and purpose, he says.
Part of the local legend, the story of submerged offshore temples was first recorded by William Chambers, a British traveller, in the Asiatic Research Journal in 1788. He quoted older people having seen the tops of several pagodas far out in sea, covered with copper. By the time Chambers visited the place the effect was no longer the same as the copper had been incrusted with mould and verdigris.
What lends credence to the UAWs excavation is a search carried out by divers of UK-based Scientific Exploration Society and Indian National Institute of Oceanography in April. They claimed to have found ruins spread over several square km off the coast. During the expedition, divers came across structures believed to be man-made.

Read this Book if you wanna knowhttp://www.ancientlosttreasures.com/topic/4619 more;
Coombes, J.W. The Seven Pagodas With 31 Illustrations & A Map Hc. 120p, 31plates (Reprint London 1914) 1999, ISBN8129614240

02-09-2008, 02:05 AM

QUOTEOrissa dig reveals 2,500-yr-old city

PTI | Bhubaneswar
Remains of an ancient city, believed to be around 2,500 years old, have been unearthed by archaeologists at Sishupalgarh near here.

The remnants at the historical site including 18 pillars came to light during a fresh research work undertaken by a team of archaeologists including Monica L Smith of University of California and RK Mohanty of Deccan College, Pune.

"A huge city existed at the site around 2,500 years ago. The latest findings at the site comprise the most visible standing architectural structures discovered in India so far," Smith said while explaining various aspects of the findings.

The remnants suggest that the city, with four gateways, had 20,000 to 25,000 settlers, while classical Athens housed about 10,000 people, Mohanty said, adding all these showed the significance of the ancient city.

The archaeologists came out with new features on the urban life of the people of the ancient period in course of a surface excavation at the fortified site, which was first discovered in 1948 by a team of 12 experts.

The pillars discovered during their research and excavation work were a part of a gigantic structure, Mohanty said. The huge structures were probably used for public gatherings or special functions.

Referring to the walls excavated at the site, he said this were quite well-built with a big expanse, amply showing the importance of the ancient site as a city. A large number of household articles, pottery, terracotta ornaments and other items were also found at the site, Mohanty said.

Observing that the lifestyle of the people in the ancient city was "most advanced", he said the potteries were not only well polished but had ownership markings on them.

An unusually large number of cups and bowls found from the site suggested that the settlers were perhaps familiar with the practice of use-and-throw, said the team members.

There were also indications about existence of large-scale patterns of surface architecture like streets linking the gateways and water storage facilities, they said adding pictures taken through geo-physical research methods suggested a big urban set up spread over an area larger than excavated.

However, it was not clear as to how such a huge and important city was destroyed, Mohanty said expressing the hope that more information about the ancient city would be unearthed with the help of fresh data and findings.

Other archaeologists as also historians hoped that comprehensive excavation of the site at Sishupalgarh, one of the earliest historical cities neglected for long, would throw light on other aspects like trade and commerce during that period.

dhu · 02-12-2008, 01:42 AM

xpost

Video of Orissa Find:

http://www.ibnlive.com/videos/58586/archae...-in-orissa.html

03-30-2008, 06:52 AM

Ancient civilisation traced in Bengal villageQUOTEKolkata, March 29: Archaeologists have stumbled upon traces of an ancient civilisation in Bengal dating back to nearly 20,000 years.
About 200 small stone tools, knives and needle-like 'microliths' among others were excavated at a small village in West Bengal's Murshidabad district.

"The discovery indicates that an ancient civilisation existed in this part of Bengal and the stone tools, besides agate, quartz, chert and chalcedony were found to be used by a hunting tool-producing community in the pre-historic period," state Archaeology Department's Superintendent Amal Roy said over telephone from the excavation site at Haatpara mouza in Sagardighi block.

Roy said that some fossilised fish fins and seeds were also found in the excavation site spread over an 1,000-metre area on a cultivable land along Santhalpara.

Noting that it was a one-and-a-half-year-long effort that led to the discovery of the stone tools, Roy said 2-3 metres of digging through the âyellowish soilâ yielded the results.

State archaeologists carried out the excavation with the guidance of geo-archaeologists S N Rajguru and B C Deodare of Deccan College, Pune, he said.

"The finds have been closely examined and found to be beyond Holocene period (much over 10,000 year-old)," he added.

The archaeologist said that the excavation of the stone tools had dropped broad hint that an ancient civilisation existed in this part of Bengal.

03-31-2008, 07:36 AM

Indus Valley links unearthed in Qatar
Gulf Times [Qatar], 26 March, 2008

A BURIAL site of traders from the Indus Valley, estimated to be 5,000
years old, has been found on the north-west coast of Qatar,
strengthening the theories of commercial exchange between the ancient
peoples of the Middle East and the subcontinent, according to Qatari
explorer and fossil collector, Mohamed Ali al-Sulaiti. Based on the
materials found at a graveyard at Al-Ruwaida, located a few kilometres
to the west of Ruwais, al-Sulaiti said the colony belonged to people of
the Indus Valley civilisation, which flourished around 3,000 BC. "These
people mostly traded in brass. They also brought in porcelain objects,
probably procured from China, for selling in the Gulf countries
including Qatar, Bahrain, Oman and Abu Dhabi," al- Sulaiti, also an
amateur archaeologist, told Gulf Times in an exclusive interview.

http://snipr.com/22vvc

06-09-2008, 10:20 AM

Devotees worship planets at ancient Thilakeshwar Temple in Tamil NaduQUOTEBy Jayakumar, Devipattinam (Tamil Nadu), June 8 : A large number of devotees visit Tamil Nadu's ancient Thilakeshwar Temple, popularly known as Navagraha Temple at Devipattinam, a coastal village located 70 kilometers from Rameshwaram Dhaam.

Legend has it that prince Rama in-exile had prayed to Navagrahas (nine planets) at Devipattinam before embarking on his journey to Lanka (the present day Sri Lanka), the then kingdom of demon King Ravana, who had abducted Rama's wife Sita. 

Rama placed nine stones as symbols of Navagrahas or nine planets, at Devipattanam. Those stones can still be watched partly submerged in the water close to the beach near a bathing place (Ghat) of the Thilakeshwar Temple or the Navagraha Temple.

It is said that Rama performed the ritual so that the nine planets would shed their auspicious light on him in his battle with Ravana to rescue Sita.

As per Hindu mythology, the planetary conditions have a major effect on humans' lives and thus by worshipping them their impact can be reduced.

"This has been constructed under the sea by Lord Rama. While Lord Rama was worshipping here, he was disturbed by waves. He prayed to Lord Vishnu. Lord Vishnu stopped the waves so as to help Rama perform his Puja (prayers)," said Renganathan Iyengar, a temple priest.

Since that time Devipattinam drew popularity for being a place to get relief from all kinds of adverse planetary conditions by performing the suggested rituals.

Devipattinam or, the place of Goddess is also described as the place where the Goddess killed the demon Mahishasura at this spot.

As per Hindu mythology, nine planets control the life of human beings. People face good or bad phases in their personal lives, depending upon their Karmas or, deeds performed in their previous births.

People from across the country and abroad, therefore, visit this temple devoted to the nine planets to seek divine blessings and a relief from planets' adverse impact and suffering caused by them.

Devotees at the temple offer nine varieties of grains including paddy, wheat, pulses and other things to the Gods and Goddesses.

They go around the deities and worship the `Navagrahas' or, the nine planets seeking peace and prosperity in their lives and a divine blessing to relieve them of all their sufferings.

"We are coming here from Singapore. It is said that if you come here and pray, it proves a blessing for the entire family. We believe in it. So we came here to worship," said Thenmozhli, a devotee from Singapore.

The Thilakeshwar Temple is dedicated to Shiva and Parvathi (Durga). Shiva here is known as Thilakeswarar and the Goddess is known as Soundaryanayaki. The shrine has a beautiful image of an eight-armed Durga with weapons.

Bodhi · 06-09-2008, 11:03 PM

QUOTEThere are three Asokas in the history whose identity has to be
established:

1. The Mauryan king Asoka vardhana, as described in Puranas. I am not
sure if anything was told about Asoka vardhana by puranas, even though
he has ruled the longest in his dynasty

2. The Bauddhist king Asoka(Tissa?) as described in the various
Buddhist and Jain works. Clearly, they try to mostly identify Asoka
with with Asoka Vardhana but it is possible that the writers are
confused since these works were composed centuries after Asoka

3. Priyadarsi, the king of edicts who was supposed to be dear to the
gods and of course, just once he calls himself Asoka (in the edict of
Maski)

Apart from this, we have in a minor way, the Asoka from Raja
tarangini, which is perhaps the most authentic work.

In any case, we see that all the three kings differ in their nature
and dating.

The full name of Asoka Vardhana, a princely name is not mentioned
anywhere else - either in non puranic sources or the edicts. While
so0mebuddhist literature does identify the lineage of asoka as mauryan
and name his father as bindusara(as did the puranas), largely the name
of the father of asoka keeps changing in this literature. Even where
it is identified with Mauryan Bindusara, the writers must have got
confused.

The king of edicts is a totally different person from the Asoka of
buddhist literature. That both are buddhists is the only common point.
There is no Kalinga war mentioned in the buddhist literature. The
asoka of Buddhists was a cruel sadist who was brought to the path of
Buddhism by various monks as soon as he has taken over or at best, 4
years after his coronation. After his conversion, Asoka was intolerant
of other religions and killed even his own brother, whom he has spared
earlier, suspecting that he is following a heretic Buddha school.

One of the above kings is so ugly that the name priyadarsi is a
misnomer.

On the other hand, the edicts clearly mention that the king has taken
to Buddhism in the 8th year of his coronation, following the war of
Kalinga. He was highly tolerant of other religions, advising his
people to respect brahmins and he has made donations to ajivakas in
the 12th/13th year and perhaps, in 19th year of his coronation, which
is much later to his conversion.

The king of edicts is clearly highly tactful and diplomatic, never a
sadist. He was a shrewd and ambitious ruler- he annexed Kalinga only
to have control of sea faring business routes. He has used religion as
a matter of tool to discipline people, most of the important edicts
being in the gold bearing areas of India. His repentance may be more
of a farce since the famous edict announcing his remorse was never
found in Kalinga or the area around it. Not just this, his hypocracy
is clearly mentioned in the likes of edicts where he confesses that he
continued to eat meat, even as he entreated others, including the
staff and other residents of the Royal palace to convert to
vegetarianism. That most of his tactics are to get the maximum out of
trade routes is very obvious. That kings concentrated highly on trade
routes is a trade mark of around Guptan kings.

(The deterioration of such concentration in Harsha's time has led to
decline of cities on one hand and increase in self reliance of
villages. This has proved to be a heavy hurdle for further
economic/urban development)

If you follow the traditionalists' chronology, we can say that Asoka
vardhana was existing much earlier to Greek invasion. Also, the
traditionalists identify Sandrocottus with Chandra gupta I. This will
make the Asoka of Edicts a king around the times of Guptans,as pointed
by his way of dealing.

Thus, clearly Devanam piya/piyadarsi who have inscribed all the famous
edicts is not a Mauryan king. There are many other arguments in favor
of this statement.

Kishore patnaik

**acharya** · (This post was last modified: 06-14-2008, 12:06 PM by acharya.)

Contents
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vimanas/...11.htm#Contents

1.

Introduction
2.

Territorial ideal of a one-State India
3.

The Laws of War
4.

Weapons of War as Gathered from Literature
5.

Martial Arts - Fighting without weapons
6.

Army and Army Divisions
7.

Aerial Warfare
8.

Naval Warfare
9.

Diplomacy and War
10.

Conclusion
11.

Articles
12.

Images of Some Weapons

a chapter of 'Hindu Wisdom'

from HinduismWisdom Website

The history of ancient India is largely a history of Hindu culture and progress. Hindu culture has a distinct claim to a higher antiquity than Assyrian schools would claim for Sargon I and as much or even higher antiquity than Egyptian scholars would claim for the commencement of the first dynasty of Kings. One aspect of this culture consists in India's political institutions which were almost modern. Modern warfare has developed on mechanical lines, giving less scope for the qualities of courage and individual leadership.

The value and importance of the army were realized very early in the history of India, and this led to the maintenance of a permanent militia to put down dissent within and arrest aggression from without. This gave rise to the Ksatriya warrior caste, and the ksatram dharmam came to mean the primary duty of war. To serve the country by participating in war became the svadharma of this warrior community.

Hindu military science recognizes two kinds of warfare:

*

the dharmayuddha
*

the kutayuddha

Dharmayuddha is war carried on the principles of dharma, meaning here the Ksatradharma or the law of Kings and Warriors. In other words, it was a just and righteous war which had the approval of society. On the other hand, kuttayuddha was unrighteous war. It was a crafty fight carried on in secret.

The Hindu science of warfare values both niti and saurya i.e. ethical principles and valor. It was therefore realized that the waging of war without regard to moral standards degraded the institution into mere animal ferocity. A monarch desirous of dharma vijaya should conform to the code of ethics enjoined upon warriors.

The principles regulating the two kinds of warfare are elaborately described in the Dharmasutras and Dharmasastras, the epics (Ramayana and Mahabharata), the Arthasastra treatises of Kautalya, Kamandaka, and Sukra. Hindu India possessed the classical fourfold force of chariots, elephants, horsemen, and infantry, collectively known as the Caturangabala. Students also know that the old game of chess also goes by the name of Caturanga.

From the references to this game in the Rg Veda and the Atharva Veda and in the Buddhists and Jaina books, it must have been very popular in ancient India. The Persian term Chatrang and the Arabic Shatrang are forms of the Sanskrit Caturanga.

According to Sir A. M. Eliot and Heinrich Brunnhofer (a German Indologist) and Gustav Oppert, all of whom have stated that ancient Hindus knew the use of gunpowder. Eliot tells us that the Arabs learnt the manufacture of gunpowder from India, and that before their Indian connection they had used arrows of naphtha. It is also argued that though Persia possessed saltpetre in abundance, the original home of gunpowder was India. In the light of the above remarks we can trace the evolution of fire-arms in the ancient India. (source: German Indologists: Biographies of Scholars in Indian Studies writing in German - by Valentine Stache-Rosen. p.92).

Terence Dukes, author of The Boddhisattva Warriors: The Origin, Inner Philosophy, History and Symbolism of the Buddhist Martial Art Within India and China, says that martial arts went from India to China and fighting without weapons was a specialty of the ancient Ksatreya warriors of India.

**acharya** · 06-14-2008, 12:31 PM

*

Researchers abroad point out that Crystals, Manis and Mirrors stated in this work have potential not yet explored by modern science. Crystals today, though sparingly used in technology still play a dominant role in Digital Technology.

Some western researchers strongly feel that ancient Indian aviation included propulsion system from Electromagnetic Lift and Repulsion principles and vertex propulsion. Many experiments have been reported from these experimenters working on modeling vimanas with these principles inbuilt. Such trials are predominantly after 1950s. It appears from the results of these experiments that though the methods look unconventional as compared to established technology, they are not opposed to them from the point of basic principles of science. Famous experiments on small flying crafts known as searls craft have added credence to applications of these theories in aviation.

This topic on views of foreign researchers have been briefly introduced just to give a glimpse of happenings outside the country on principles of ancient aviation science. There have been a number of books published by several authors in the recent years. We believe that researches on ancient aviation sciences receive far higher impetus in the coming decades.

---

CONTENTS

*

Key Note
*

Preface
*

Acknowledgements
*

CHAPTER 1: A Background
*

CHAPTER 2: Authorship and Dating
*

CHAPTER 3: Literature Survey
*

CHAPTER 4: Study Teams, Comments and Discussion
*

CHAPTER 5: Definition of Vimana
*

CHAPTER 6: The Pilot
*

CHAPTER 7: Secrets (Special Features) of Vimana
*

CHAPTER 8: Special Study of Role-Specific Features
*

CHAPTER 9: The Atmosphere
*

CHAPTER10: On-Board Systems
*

CHAPTER11: Clothing for Pilots
*

CHAPTER12: Food for Pilots
*

CHAPTER13: Views of a Combat Pilot
*

CHAPTER14: Metals - Lohadhikaranam
*

CHAPTER15: Mirrors â Dharpanadhikaranam
*

CHAPTER16: The Power â Shaktyadhikaranam
*

CHAPTER17: Yantradhikaranam
*

CHAPTER18: Additional Metals, Alloys and Materials
*

CHAPTER19: Classification of Vimana Jatyahikaranam
*

CHAPTER20: Kritaka Vimanas
*

CHAPTER21: Views of Foreign Researchers
*

CHAPTER22: Atypicals
*

Findings
*

Recommendations
*

Conclusions
*

References

APPENDICES
*

APPENDIX A â F : Refer to Chapter 3
*

APPENDIX G: Refer to Chapter 17

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vimanas/vimanas.htm

Bharatvarsh · 06-21-2008, 12:26 AM

Arrians Indica:

http://www.und.ac.za/und/classics/india/arrian.htm

Some points posted on wiki about Indians at that time:
QUOTEIndica as a window onto Greek and Roman knowledge
The Indica gives the historian a good idea of how the Greeks and Romans saw India. Though, as stated above, everything in Indica is not completely factual in its details, it is useful to know what the Greeks and Romans thought of India and how they may have viewed it. Some descriptions about Indian people from the Indica:

"the southern Indians resemble the Ethiopians a good deal, and, are black of countenance, and their hair black also, only they are not as snub-nosed or so woolly-haired as the Ethiopians; but the northern Indians are most like the Egyptians in appearance."
"No Indian ever went outside his own country on a warlike expedition, so righteous were they."
"Indians do not put up memorials to the dead; but they regard their virtues as sufficient memorials for the departed, and the songs which they sing at their funerals."
"This also is remarkable in India, that all Indians are free, and no Indian at all is a slave. In this the Indians agree with the Lacedaemonians. Yet the Lacedaemonians have Helots for slaves, who perform the duties of slaves; but the Indians have no slaves at all, much less is any Indian a slave."
"The Indians generally are divided into seven castes, the wise men, farmers, herdsmen, artisans, soldiers and shopkeepers, overlookers, and government officials and ministers."
"The Indians in shape are thin and tall and much lighter in movement than the rest of mankind."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indica_%28Arrian%29
Also there is some description of marriage customs:
QUOTEXVII. The Indians in shape are thin and tall and much lighter in movement than the rest of mankind. They usually ride on camels, horses, and asses; the richer men on elephants. For the elephant in India is a royal mount; then next in dignity is a four-horse chariot, and camels come third; to ride on a single horse is low. Their women, such as are of great modesty, can be seduced by no other gift, but yield themselves to anyone who gives an elephant; and the Indians think it no disgrace to yield thus on the gift of an elephant, but rather it seems honourable for a woman that her beauty should be valued at an elephant. They marry neither giving anything nor receiving anything; such girls as are marriageable their fathers bring out and allow anyone who proves victorious in wrestling or boxing or running or shows pre-eminence in any other manly pursuit to choose among them. The Indians eat meal and till the ground, except the mountaineers; but these eat the flesh of game. This must be enough for a description of the Indians, being the most notable things which Nearchus and Megasthenes, men of credit, have recorded about them. But as the main subject of this my history was not to write an account of the Indian customs but the way in which Alexander's navy reached Persia from India, this must all be accounted a digression.

http://www.und.ac.za/und/classics/india/arrian.htm

06-24-2008, 01:45 AM

Dating of the Mahabharat time period

Bodhi · 06-30-2008, 07:34 AM

Rock galleries: The discovery of rock art, dating back to 2000 B.C., in Tamil Nadu offers a peek into history.

<img src='http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2412/images/20070629000206402.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

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