<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> Now, these anti-Hindu forces are exploiting the AIT to the hilt, infusing crank racism in vast doses into India's body politic. Read e.g. Kancha Ilaiah's book Why I Am Not a Hindu (Calcutta 1996), sponsored by the Rajiv Gandhi Foundation, with its anti-Brahmin cartoons: move the hairlocks of the Brahmin villains from the back of the head to just in front of their ears, and you get exact replicas of the anti-Semitic cartoons from the Nazi paper Der Stürmer.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->For the OBCs to be pushed from street democracy to a knowledge-based
democratic realm, <b>an Anglicised and westernised intellectual class must come up from among them.</b> This has not happened so far. Removing the creamy layer from the process of reservation will prevent the emergence of the OBC intellectual class.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Kancha Ilaya truly shows where his loyalities are. This is the same guy who in a televised debate on NDTV apart from calling for a cilvil war,critisised the "upper cates" of migrating to the west.
Salem, Dec 8: <b>Volunteers of the Periyar Dravidar Kazhagam, a splinter group of the Dravidar Kazhagam, cut the sacred threads of four Brahmins,</b> besides assaulting them at Ramnagar area here on Thursday, police said.
According to Alexander Mohan, DIG, Salem Range, the four employees of a private company were on their way to office yesterday afternoon, when a group of eleven volunteers of Periyar Dravida Kazhagam, attacked them.
Mohan attributed the incident as a repercussion to the damage caused to the statue of social reformer Periyar E V Ramasamy at Srirangam.
All the eleven people, including PDK members <b>Martin and Sakthi</b>, were arrested and a case has been charged under Sec 307(attempt to murder) of the IPC at the Karumalaikoodal police station, he added. (Agencies)
Salem, Dec 8: <b>Volunteers of the Periyar Dravidar Kazhagam, a splinter group of the Dravidar Kazhagam, cut the sacred threads of four Brahmins,</b> besides assaulting them at Ramnagar area here on Thursday, police said.
According to Alexander Mohan, DIG, Salem Range, the four employees of a private company were on their way to office yesterday afternoon, when a group of eleven volunteers of Periyar Dravida Kazhagam, attacked them.
Mohan attributed the incident as a repercussion to the damage caused to the statue of social reformer Periyar E V Ramasamy at Srirangam.
All the eleven people, including PDK members <b>Martin and Sakthi</b>, were arrested and a case has been charged under Sec 307(attempt to murder) of the IPC at the Karumalaikoodal police station, he added. (Agencies)
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<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Sep 9 2006, 10:13 PM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Sep 9 2006, 10:13 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Kanchi Ilaiah the so called Dalit saviour is not Dalit, he is an OBC and from the same jati as Sri Krishna Deva Raya of Vijayanagara empire.
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Krishna devaraya was an OBC and our politicians and "intellectuals" call them Other "Backward" Castes. They produced dynasties which have ruled one of India's strongest kingdoms. What right do they have to be called backward. What an irony.
<!--QuoteBegin-agnivayu+Aug 30 2006, 06:44 AM-->QUOTE(agnivayu @ Aug 30 2006, 06:44 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Brahmins should start acting as a voting block. Eventually everyone can become an oppressed group.Â
Brahmins constitute exactly what percentage of Indian population. In TN they are a measly 2% and are treated like sh1t. In UP I think they are 10% or more thats why even BSP is trying to woo them.
Brahmins I believe are historically one of the most mobile groups in India. My ancestors are said to have come from North to South, then moved from Tamil Nad to Kerala, I guess in search of better life, better scriptures (instead of greener pastures <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->. I say, considering present day vote bank realities, let all or as much Brahminsand even other forward castes move to one or a few states, which already have better percentage of Brahmins and other forward castes and also having forward looking developmental outlook.
This may seem impractical, but hell, it would have seemed impractical even to make satyagraha as a strong political force, but didn't it happen. It would help if we have a state wise distribution of Brahmins as a percentage of entire population. In wikipedia you'll easily find a link to forward caste distribution across the states. It shows in terms of states having higher ratio of forward castes, notable among them are Maharashtra, Punjab, Haryana, West Bengal, Goa.
And having been brought up in Maharastra I know that reverse discrimination is not as severe in Maharashtra as in Tamil Nadu. However thats my personal experience.
<!--QuoteBegin-mitradena+Dec 13 2006, 03:22 AM-->QUOTE(mitradena @ Dec 13 2006, 03:22 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
Tamil Brahmanas are a bunch of clowns.
Do you think they can even organize a cohesive miltary unit?
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The worst response to your statement will be to attack it and make this thread a fighting ground. At best, your statement is unworthy of even responding to. But to just let you know, I have seen what you said and its a reflection of the limit of exaltation your mind can achieve and which is very low indeed.
BTW theatrics apart whats your suggestion, make a parallel army or a revolutionary group like Naxalities etc and fight against the government or any which way try to overthrow the excellent democratic system and constitution we have got. We have already seen what was the effect of the stir and bandh called by the medical students. Did it move the govt or budge it in any way.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The worst response to your statement will be to attack it and make this thread a fighting ground. At best, your statement is unworthy of even responding to. But to just let you know, I have seen what you said and its a reflection of the limit of exaltation your mind can achieve and which is very low indeed.
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If all Brahmanas moved to one state and became a majority there do you think they will be able to defend that state from outside incursion?
How about if there was a 100% Tamil Brahmana country?
How long do you think that will last without an army?
Majority of them are such cowards that they won't even give their daughter in marriage to you if you serve in the the Military or Police. (Believe me I have seen this first hand for the past 2 years).
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->BTW theatrics apart whats your suggestion
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Step 1:
First believe in Hinduism!
Most modern Brahmanas are closet athiests or secularists.
If you don't believe in your own religion how do you expect other Hindus to give you any respect?
If I talk about Sandhya Vandanam or Gayatri japam, they stare as if I have come from the Moon and am talking Latin.
Step 2:
90% of my own family members are morons.
Just because they can code 1000 lines of C++ or have a PHD they think they are big heroes.
They will look down upon any occupation that is non-intellectual like military, police or fireman.
They can't even defend their women & children in times of an emergency and they talk as if they rule the world.
So learn to give respect and encouragement to Brahmana boys who want serve in the army. Don't put them down.
Don't be afraid of death. We all have to die one day.
Step 3:
Brahmanas need to learn some basic courtesy & ettiquette.
Learn how to talk properly and behave. They tend to sound very arrogant and make sarcastic jokes which offends lot of people especially non-Brahmana hindus.
Why do you think Non-Brahmanas hate us?
It is this rude sarcastic way of talking that offends them the most.
It's true, Tam Brahms have no respect for physical strength and prowess.
No need to create a rebel group, I think Tam Brahms just need to learn martial arts and basic self defense and not be afraid of physical confrontation when confrontation is inevitable. They should also concentrate themselves in one location in Tamil Nadu, so that they are the majority there, then they can slowly try to lobby for a union territory or a state.
12-14-2006, 03:10 AM (This post was last modified: 12-14-2006, 03:18 AM by Sunder.)
There is an assault on people who are perceived to be Brahmins. But what really is being attacked? Who are these Brahmins you mention that will (after reading this forum) go and start registering for Martial art courses?
It is easy to sit at our desks and type away suggestions. How many Brahmins here have learnt Martial Arts? How many among those are willing to share the knowledge?
Talk is cheap. Brahmins are not made to fight physically, they are adhere to Dharma and encourage Kshatriyas to do their Dharma. A la Chanakya to a Chandragupta or Swami Vidyaranya to Hakka-Bukka, or Samartha Ramdas to a Shivaji.
Yukthi leads, Shakthi follows.
* The arrow shot by an archer may or may not kill a single man; but skilful intrigue devised by wise men can kill even those who are in the womb. (Arthashastra 10.6)
12-14-2006, 08:41 PM (This post was last modified: 12-14-2006, 08:42 PM by agnivayu.)
Nonsense, I have learnt martial arts and continue to do so, and yes I am a Tam Brahm. I have also focused on physical training.
It's not something you have to do (i.e. be physically aggressive), it's a mindset, why sit on your behind and wait for someone to come save you. Talk about dharma and varna is nonsense, the jobs in India or anywhere are not based on varna to begin with. People don't pick to be a software engineer or a cop because they are Brahmin or Kshatriya.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sunder+Dec 14 2006, 03:10 AM-->QUOTE(Sunder @ Dec 14 2006, 03:10 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
It is easy to sit at our desks and type away suggestions. How many Brahmins here have learnt Martial Arts? How many among those are willing to share the knowledge?
Talk is cheap. Brahmins are not made to fight physically, they are adhere to Dharma and encourage Kshatriyas to do their Dharma. A la Chanakya to a Chandragupta or Swami Vidyaranya to Hakka-Bukka, or Samartha Ramdas to a Shivaji.
I dont understand how such nonsencial illogical stereotyping gets tolerated in this forum and nobody bothers to break such myths.
Myth 1: You got to know martial arts to be courageous
Myth 2: Brahmins, specifically Tam Brams dont know martial arts, therefore they are chicken hearted. Obviously you have done a empirical research on the same and also have found a measure of bravery. Believe me every army in the world would like to recruit you for you have got a secret of how to determine the braves. Very simple isn't it, just determine the race and get over with it. Our colonial masters gave you a convenient "martial race" theory to fiddle around with. And in todays times you think you are nationalist Hindus, but you are just saying in your lingo what they have instilled in our minds.
Myth 3: Also that Tam Brams as a community dont give their daughters to army or police chaps and the like. Again maybe you have observed every Tam Bram family. I'm your much despised Tam Bram myself. One of my cousin's husband was an Army officer who was kidnapped by terrorists in J&K in lieu of getting some other terrorists in Indian prisons freed. The govt of course didnt relent and the terrorists killed him in captivity. And just if you want to imagine that my cousin's husband was from some martial race, you can imagine whatever to your liking but no sir he was one of your ridiculed Tam Bram. My grandfather ran away from home when he was not even eighteen to join the defence. Since he was not a major and his father wont allow him to go, he got guardian's signature from one of his school teachers. He joined the lowest ranks and retired after full service as a Squadron leader. Maybe in your books Brahmins, let alone Tam Brams are not all that adventorous. Fit in your convenient profiles sir, to your hearts content. Another of my cousin was an officer through the SSC, joined the infantry bcos he wanted to be in the frontline, served at the fronts. And just to put your imagination to full stop he is well married to another member of the same community. Of course I am not even close to any of these. At max I can just get outraged at your foolish statements and twiddle furiously at my keyboard, but dont castigate my community for what I am, for do I castigate yours for any quisling it may produce. I of course did not venture to do any empirical research on such a worthless topic and I dont claim to prove anything based on what I know of my family, only that it conclusively disproves yours. Maybe that chap who in some other thread said that I should change my style of posting and argumentation and post some links supporting my theories should likewise try to advise others the same.
I dont care if Brahmins are martial or not, learn self defence or not, they just got to be courageous and stand up for their principles. And that applies not just to Brahmins but to all communities.
And all this Brahmin yukti, Kshatriya shakti etc is stuff for kids and school textbooks. But even schoolbooks will let you know that Chandrashekhar Azad and Ram Prasad Bismil used both yukti and shakti. And so did Bhagat Singh. And so did Ashfaqullah. Was that anything got to do with whether they were a Brahmin or Kshatriya , Hindu or Sikh or Muslim. And did they all have 10th degree black belts under their belt before they did what they did.
Stereotyping is a simple brain trying to make sense of complex realities producing faulty judgements.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->try to overthrow the excellent democratic system and constitution we have got.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't say it's excellent but more like "satisfactory enuf", nothing excellent about it seeing the way the country is heading with a bumbling fool of a PM who says "minorities must have first claim on resources", I think first off we need to get rid of the Parliamentary system, I prefer the Presidential system, also make some new rules about worthless parties who get less than 5% of the vote to be eliminated, the constitution adopted was more like a copy of Britain's in many ways and set the stage for unlimited Muslim appeasement.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Talk is cheap. Brahmins are not made to fight physically, they are adhere to Dharma and encourage Kshatriyas to do their Dharma. A la Chanakya to a Chandragupta or Swami Vidyaranya to Hakka-Bukka, or Samartha Ramdas to a Shivaji.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are talking in scriptural terms but I think the others talking more in terms of social terms, yes what you say is true although there are exceptions like Parashurama, but here we are talking in today's times where many Brahmins as a social group have taken to a variety of professions, if that is the case then they can and should learn to stand up for themselves.
And Brahmins produced some excellent warriors like Baji Rao.
12-15-2006, 09:03 AM (This post was last modified: 12-15-2006, 09:04 AM by Sunder.)
<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Dec 14 2006, 11:18 PM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Dec 14 2006, 11:18 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->in today's times where many Brahmins as a social group have taken to a variety of professions
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If scriptural definitions no longer apply, and 'brahmins' have taken up other professions, who are the brahmins we are talking about and what exactly is this brahminism that the thread addresses?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->some excellent warriors like Baji Rao.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Padmapani Acharya & Vishvanathan of Kargil fame are among others.
Other Iyengars in Army and Police
* Gen. K. Sundarji - Former Chief of the Indian Army
* General Sundararajan Padmanabhan - Former chief of the Indian Army
* Dr.K.Sreenivasan - Former DGP & IGP of Karnataka State.
* S. Parthasarathi Ayyangar - Former Commissioner of Police in Madras Presidency
* Lt Gen C R Sampath Kumar - Military Secretary to Shankar Dayal Sharma, President of India.
* B. N. Garudachar - Director-General and Inspector-General of Police Karnataka
* K. R. Srinivasan - Director-General of Police Karnataka
* P. S. Ramanujan - Director-General of Police Karnataka
So what is the gist of the discussions so far? Is there a strategy forming here or is it just individual opinions that will fade away into cyber-oblivion as time passes?
12-15-2006, 09:25 AM (This post was last modified: 12-15-2006, 09:29 AM by Bharatvarsh.)
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->If scriptural definitions no longer apply, and 'brahmins' have taken up other professions, who are the brahmins we are talking about and what exactly is this brahminism that the thread addresses?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Brahmins we are talking about the one's classified as Brahmin on their certificates and the one's who are targeted because they are preceived to be Brahmins, we are talking about a socially identifiable group which is not confined to the scriptural defintion for our purposes.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->So what is the gist of the discussions so far? Is there a strategy forming here or is it just individual opinions that will fade away into cyber-oblivion as time passes? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The gist of the discussion seems to be about people standing up for themselves and what they believe in, when dharma is under attack even a Brahmin may have to fight because one has to defend dharma even if it means fighting physically, Parashurama is a good example.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Dec 15 2006, 09:25 AM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Dec 15 2006, 09:25 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Brahmins we are talking about the one's classified as Brahmin on their certificates and the one's who are targeted because they are preceived to be Brahmins, we are talking about a socially identifiable group which is not confined to the scriptural defintion for our purposes.
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And why exactly are we concerned about a set of people who have a particular term printed on a certificate? What special sympathy do these people demand? What would be the loss if a set of people identified by their certificate cease to be? Is the definition of these particular group based on sources other than scriptures? Is there something more than the people that you are concerned about?
Isn't all these talk only on definitions based on certain books deemed to be scriptures?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->And why exactly are we concerned about a set of people who have a particular term printed on a certificate? What special sympathy do these people demand? What would be the loss if a set of people identified by their certificate cease to be? Is the definition of these particular group based on sources other than scriptures? Is there something more than the people that you are concerned about?
Isn't all these talk only on definitions based on certain books deemed to be scriptures?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because these particular set of people seem to be facing discrimination and why do you think they are demanding sympathy, maybe they are only demanding that they be given equal rights as proclaimed by the constitution nothing more or nothing less.
There is no loss if they cease to be in the sense of disowning the label stuck on them that is their choice, the definition here is based on what the GOI uses to classify a particular person as a Brahmin.
The talk here is not solely based on definitions found in the scriptures, otherwise we wouldn't find people here stating %'s of Brahmins in different states and their income levels or some other statisitics because we don't even know if the majority of the people sampeled in the surveys even live upto the exceptations of a Brahmin found in the scriptures.
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->. I say, considering present day vote bank realities, let all or as much Brahminsand even other forward castes move to one or a few states, which already have better percentage of Brahmins and other forward castes and also having forward looking developmental outlook.