05-26-2005, 03:36 PM
Sunder <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->So ISKCON does believe Buddha, Allah, and Jejovah/Christ are equivalent to Narayana or Krishna? Does it also endorse that the Bible (like the mention of Aquarian Gospel) are also "True" texts that a "Bhaktha" should follow?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmmm.. I think a vital point is being missed by all allround.
Hinduism means to go beyond the bodily concepts of life.
The soul is actually free from the bodily notions of sex, nationality and even sectarian religion.
Thus there is no Hindu nor Muslim nor Christian in the real sense.
Coming to the question, NO, ISKCON does NOT endorse the Bible or any other Text other than Sattwic Vedic Scriptures.
VAISHNAVISM RESPECTS AND SUPPORTS RELIGIOUSNESS, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHICH RELIGION IT ORIGINATES FROM.
The ultimate goal of all religions is Love of God, every thing else is irrelavant commentary.
If a religion succeeds in installing love of God in its followers, it is an authentic religion, if not, it is a failure. This is the only yardstick to measure religions, it does not really matter who started the religion or where and when.
However, Vaishnavism is the most complete science on Bhakti and has the easiest and surest way of understanding love for Godhead and therefore enjoys a preeminent position.
Many a times, this anology is used: Hinduism is an encyclopedia of religiousness, while all other religions are concise dictionaries. One can understand stuff from dictionaries, but for indepth, elaborate treatment of any topic, one needs to refer the encylopedia.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->gangajal :
The Vaishnava downgrading of Shiva (and Kali) is quite amusing since the Vaishnavas have to work very hard to explain away the awkard fact that Vishnu Sahasranama mentions that Shiva (Name #27) and Rudra (Name #114) are names of Vishnu. They also have to ignore the Harihara murti.
The biggest problem with Vaishnavism is that it encourages bigoted behavior. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Would you care to explain what you mean by your assertation that Vaishnavism encourages Bigotism?
The biggest problem you say, also means that Vaishnavism has 'other' problems.. care to elaborate what other problems you have discovered?
There is no 'downgrading' of Shiva and there is no amusement in it. It is just your carelessness when you did not read my previous posts carefully where I have mentioned that Shiva is an avatara or expansion of Narayana and in once sense, non-different from Narayana, but as an expansion to govern the mode of Ignorance, is not the recipient of worship which is due to Narayana, the original personality alone.
Please! Kindly do not pass such judgements too fast and without adequete reasoning unless you want to come accross as an illogical bigoted person yourself!
Sridhar K <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Does Srimad Bhagavatam talk about what a vaishnava should do or not do? From Jagan Mohanji's post, It sound as if the entire Vaishnava sampradaya as one defined by Madvacharya or Ramanuja. There are lot of Vaishnava Smarta like me who follow Adi Sankara and we have our own brand of Vaishnavism who do not deride Shiva <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sridhar K, Yes Sir, I am the same Jagan Mohan of BRF.
Vaishnavism has many Samradayas, ranging from Pure Advaita or Shudda-Advaita of Sri Vallabha & Sri Vishnuswami, Dwaita-Advaita of Sri Bhaskara to Pure Dwaita of Sri Madhavacharya.
It would be interesting to you that Sri Chaitanya, the founder of Bhedabheda Gaudiya Sampradaya comes in the line of Brahma-Madhava Sampradaya, but accepted the Commentary of Sri Sridhara Swamin, a Advaitist over traditional Madhava Commentary of the Bhagavatam.
Also, the fact that Madhavacharya as well as Chaitanya took Sanyasa Diksha from Advaitin Sanyasins points to the fact that Vaisnavism does not propogate hatred or disrespect for followers of Advaitism. Ramanujacharya's Gurudev (one of his) was an Advaitin too.
Adi Sankara is an incarnation of Lord Shiva and is highly respected Acharyan for Vaishnavas.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->we have our own brand of Vaishnavism who do not deride Shiva <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.. try to understand this very minor point.
Just because Vaishnavism does advocate worshipping Shiva, it does NOT mean that it derides Shiva.
Vaishnavism reserves total devotion to Lord Vishnu alone.
Saiva Siddhanta School of though of South India as well as Kashmiri Shaivism of North both are devotional dwaita-advaitic schools where the Supremacy of Shiva over Vishnu is taught. They excusively worship Shiva and do not even enter Vishnu Temples. This does not mean that they disrespect Vishnu or deride Vishnu, but it is their path and we respect their own freedom to choose their path.
Vaishnavism and Shaivism has co-existed for time immemorial.
In fact Advaitins claim that Shiva or Vishnu have no independent and real existence and are just names for the formless Brahman.
Thus Advaitins decry the existence of Shiva or Vishnu. For them, these are just names of imagination.. of maya.
It has also prompted many self-made Gurus and Charlatans to call themselves Avataras since they say that there is absolutely no difference between them and Brahman. Some have self-styled themselves as 'Bhagavan' this and Bhagavan That.
But Vaishnavas know from the authority of Scriptures that Shiva is a live personality with his own abode, the Kailasha realm and his own authority over Animals and Animalistic Humans- Pashupathi.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->But what i dont like is when they ask whether i am inititated into Krishna conciousness <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Every Hindu is expected to be initiated into one or the other Sampradaya.
Initiation is re-birth and offers sanctury and safety at the lotus feet of one's Guru from Materialsm and the lure of this World. Therefore, anybody who is concerned about your spritual welfare is justified when He/She asks about your initiation. No harm nor ill-will is meant.
Its just like any worldy person asking if you have finished college/found a job/ got married/ have children etc.
Hmmm.. I think a vital point is being missed by all allround.
Hinduism means to go beyond the bodily concepts of life.
The soul is actually free from the bodily notions of sex, nationality and even sectarian religion.
Thus there is no Hindu nor Muslim nor Christian in the real sense.
Coming to the question, NO, ISKCON does NOT endorse the Bible or any other Text other than Sattwic Vedic Scriptures.
VAISHNAVISM RESPECTS AND SUPPORTS RELIGIOUSNESS, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHICH RELIGION IT ORIGINATES FROM.
The ultimate goal of all religions is Love of God, every thing else is irrelavant commentary.
If a religion succeeds in installing love of God in its followers, it is an authentic religion, if not, it is a failure. This is the only yardstick to measure religions, it does not really matter who started the religion or where and when.
However, Vaishnavism is the most complete science on Bhakti and has the easiest and surest way of understanding love for Godhead and therefore enjoys a preeminent position.
Many a times, this anology is used: Hinduism is an encyclopedia of religiousness, while all other religions are concise dictionaries. One can understand stuff from dictionaries, but for indepth, elaborate treatment of any topic, one needs to refer the encylopedia.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->gangajal :
The Vaishnava downgrading of Shiva (and Kali) is quite amusing since the Vaishnavas have to work very hard to explain away the awkard fact that Vishnu Sahasranama mentions that Shiva (Name #27) and Rudra (Name #114) are names of Vishnu. They also have to ignore the Harihara murti.
The biggest problem with Vaishnavism is that it encourages bigoted behavior. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Would you care to explain what you mean by your assertation that Vaishnavism encourages Bigotism?
The biggest problem you say, also means that Vaishnavism has 'other' problems.. care to elaborate what other problems you have discovered?
There is no 'downgrading' of Shiva and there is no amusement in it. It is just your carelessness when you did not read my previous posts carefully where I have mentioned that Shiva is an avatara or expansion of Narayana and in once sense, non-different from Narayana, but as an expansion to govern the mode of Ignorance, is not the recipient of worship which is due to Narayana, the original personality alone.
Please! Kindly do not pass such judgements too fast and without adequete reasoning unless you want to come accross as an illogical bigoted person yourself!
Sridhar K <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Does Srimad Bhagavatam talk about what a vaishnava should do or not do? From Jagan Mohanji's post, It sound as if the entire Vaishnava sampradaya as one defined by Madvacharya or Ramanuja. There are lot of Vaishnava Smarta like me who follow Adi Sankara and we have our own brand of Vaishnavism who do not deride Shiva <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sridhar K, Yes Sir, I am the same Jagan Mohan of BRF.
Vaishnavism has many Samradayas, ranging from Pure Advaita or Shudda-Advaita of Sri Vallabha & Sri Vishnuswami, Dwaita-Advaita of Sri Bhaskara to Pure Dwaita of Sri Madhavacharya.
It would be interesting to you that Sri Chaitanya, the founder of Bhedabheda Gaudiya Sampradaya comes in the line of Brahma-Madhava Sampradaya, but accepted the Commentary of Sri Sridhara Swamin, a Advaitist over traditional Madhava Commentary of the Bhagavatam.
Also, the fact that Madhavacharya as well as Chaitanya took Sanyasa Diksha from Advaitin Sanyasins points to the fact that Vaisnavism does not propogate hatred or disrespect for followers of Advaitism. Ramanujacharya's Gurudev (one of his) was an Advaitin too.
Adi Sankara is an incarnation of Lord Shiva and is highly respected Acharyan for Vaishnavas.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->we have our own brand of Vaishnavism who do not deride Shiva <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.. try to understand this very minor point.
Just because Vaishnavism does advocate worshipping Shiva, it does NOT mean that it derides Shiva.
Vaishnavism reserves total devotion to Lord Vishnu alone.
Saiva Siddhanta School of though of South India as well as Kashmiri Shaivism of North both are devotional dwaita-advaitic schools where the Supremacy of Shiva over Vishnu is taught. They excusively worship Shiva and do not even enter Vishnu Temples. This does not mean that they disrespect Vishnu or deride Vishnu, but it is their path and we respect their own freedom to choose their path.
Vaishnavism and Shaivism has co-existed for time immemorial.
In fact Advaitins claim that Shiva or Vishnu have no independent and real existence and are just names for the formless Brahman.
Thus Advaitins decry the existence of Shiva or Vishnu. For them, these are just names of imagination.. of maya.
It has also prompted many self-made Gurus and Charlatans to call themselves Avataras since they say that there is absolutely no difference between them and Brahman. Some have self-styled themselves as 'Bhagavan' this and Bhagavan That.
But Vaishnavas know from the authority of Scriptures that Shiva is a live personality with his own abode, the Kailasha realm and his own authority over Animals and Animalistic Humans- Pashupathi.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->But what i dont like is when they ask whether i am inititated into Krishna conciousness <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Every Hindu is expected to be initiated into one or the other Sampradaya.
Initiation is re-birth and offers sanctury and safety at the lotus feet of one's Guru from Materialsm and the lure of this World. Therefore, anybody who is concerned about your spritual welfare is justified when He/She asks about your initiation. No harm nor ill-will is meant.
Its just like any worldy person asking if you have finished college/found a job/ got married/ have children etc.