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Demographic Politics And Population Growth - 2
Islam is more a religion of breeding than a religion of the sword
The sword took islam from 0% to 12% by 1900
The womb took islam from 12% in 1900 to 37% by 2050

Hence counter breeding is more important than counter rioting

Xtianity can be defeated by intellectual exposure of its history and its doctrines

Islam can only be defeated by babies
lmao@ counter rioting.

i laughed, on a thread as serious as this.

tell me, why should we LET them breed, just cos they want to??
if macedonia is allowing them to breed, and hence geting screwed, then it serves as an example for us to NOT follow.

we should not allow them to breed like rabbits.
tell me, why should we LET them breed, just cos they want to??


And how are you going to enforce any laws on muslims ?
Many hindus are opportunists who want to increase muslim numbers for vote bank gain

Such laws will never get passed

Muslims dont obey laws anyways
Look at the no-go zones in muslim ghettos worldwide

It took the emergency to impose family planning on muslims


if macedonia is allowing them to breed, and hence geting screwed, then it serves as an example for us to NOT follow.

we should not allow them to breed like rabbits

How ,are you going to sterilise them yourself ?
Short of a full scale civil war, or a Chinese style dictatorship this is futile

The govt will not protect you, you have to protect yourself from islam by breeding 5


Next even if the internal muslim is limited to 2 kids, there is no way to stop the external muslim from illegally immigrating in

The only sure method is counter breeding

i am sure the immigration process will be stopped once it becomes big enough and stuff like voter identity cards and ration cards are centralised.
while we not be able to plug the borders we will know who is the illegal alien, since the records will tell us.

as for stopping population explosion, the bjp was talking about those lines when in power. the world bank and imf too will arm twist india to do something about the population before handign out further loans. i am sure we wont take their rabbit like growth sitting down. sooner or later another sanjay gandhi like person will come, ngo's will drive te point home, female literracy will be made compulsory etc. by all these factors together, their growth can be checked. meanwhile the hindus who dont mind having 5 kids or more can have them.
<!--QuoteBegin-ben_ami+Feb 8 2006, 09:26 PM-->QUOTE(ben_ami @ Feb 8 2006, 09:26 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->i am sure the immigration process will be stopped once it becomes big enough and stuff like voter identity cards and ration cards are centralised.
while we not be able to plug the borders we will know who is the illegal alien, since the records will tell us.


Please read this thread from the beginning
Your remedy has been suggested by many dozens of posters and refuted by
The Indian system is corrupt from top to bottom
millions of BD illegals are already on our electoral rolls with documentation
provided by secular hindus


as for stopping population explosion, the bjp was talking about those lines when in power.


If BJP tries to sterilise muslims there will be Ayodhya riots x 1000


the world bank and  imf too will arm twist  india to do something about the population before handign out further loans.


India no longer needs loans and is a net creditor


i am sure we wont take their rabbit like growth sitting down. sooner or later another sanjay gandhi like person will come,


And by the time it takes for this ,muslims will have breeded and created


ngo's will drive te point home, female literracy will be made compulsory etc. by all these factors together, their growth can be checked.


NGOs are psec controlled and want a rise in muslim %
Educated muslims breed more than uneducated hindus



meanwhile the hindus who dont mind having 5 kids or more can have them.
Islam is a very powerful, primitive force and no neat methods will stop islam

To stop islam, you have to use islamic methods
<!--QuoteBegin-G.Subramaniam+Mar 7 2005, 02:40 AM-->QUOTE(G.Subramaniam @ Mar 7 2005, 02:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Per a xtian evangelical site
Islam is a biological problem
Meaning they breed too fast to be converted
By the time you convert 1, they breed 100
Reconversion efforts are thus guaranteed to fail, unless accompanied by counter-breeding, which slows down islam so that reconversion has a chance to work


can you please name that site.
can someone supply a link to prove that the doctrine of increasing their numbers by rabbit-like breeding and by having as many kids as possible outside marriage (take women slaves and have b@st@rd kids etc), is ingrained in islam?
<!--QuoteBegin-ben_ami+Mar 11 2006, 02:31 AM-->QUOTE(ben_ami @ Mar 11 2006, 02:31 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->can someone supply a link to prove that the doctrine of increasing their numbers by rabbit-like breeding and by having as many kids as possible outside marriage (take women slaves and have b@st@rd kids etc), is ingrained  in islam?

There are the following hadiths

'Marry women who are fertile and prolific'
'At the time of day of judgement, I want my followers to outnumber
all other religions'

Regarding the 'biological problem'
I cant find it now, but trust me, the evangelical site said that they breed
too fast to be converted
<!--QuoteBegin-G.Subramaniam+Mar 11 2006, 10:05 AM-->QUOTE(G.Subramaniam @ Mar 11 2006, 10:05 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-ben_ami+Mar 11 2006, 02:31 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ben_ami @ Mar 11 2006, 02:31 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->can someone supply a link to prove that the doctrine of increasing their numbers by rabbit-like breeding and by having as many kids as possible outside marriage (take women slaves and have b@st@rd kids etc), is ingrained  in islam?

There are the following hadiths

'Marry women who are fertile and prolific'
'At the time of day of judgement, I want my followers to outnumber
all other religions'

Regarding the 'biological problem'
I cant find it now, but trust me, the evangelical site said that they breed
too fast to be converted

thanks for the hadiths.

bit i need reference not quotation. (eg - such and such book so and so page number. like sura 14.6 of that book). because peopel may say i made that hadith up.

also is there any historical evidence to show that muslims actually did that - ie. actually married as many wives as they could and forcibly had kids with slave women, just so the kids grow up as muslims.

i remember reading one such page in one of those voiceofdharma online books - unfortunately i cant recollect which. there they provided substantian evidence to prove (1) that islam has this doctrine of breeding like rabbits and (2) the islamic barbarians in india actually had lots and lots of kids, both legit and illegit, just to increase islamic numbers.

can someone help me?
Here is the whole story about Islam and Birth control:

"4. Islam and birth control

4.1. Islam condoning birth control

It is routinely assumed in Hindu circles that Islam prohibits family planning. But against the talk of Muslim "demo­gra­phic aggres­sion", secul­ari­sts like to empha­size that, unlike Chris­tianity and Judai­sm, Islam explicitly allows birth contr­ol. And this is entirely correct. As Yoginder Sikand argues, "Islam is one of the few religi­ons that allow for birth control".[1]

In the Golden Age of Islam (7th-11th century), various writers freely wrote instructions for birth contr­ol, e.g. Al-Jahiz wrote in a book about the animal king­dom: "The difference between human beings and other species is that only human beings practise birth control­."[2] Of the four Sunni schools of jurispruden­ce,­­­­ the Malikite prohibits abortion altogether, the Hanbalite and Shafiite allow it in the first forty days, while the Hanafite school allows abortion in the first four months of preg­nancy. All the schools permit the use of contrac­eptives. The Shii­tes con­sider birth control, in pre-modern times mostly coïtus interrup­tus, the normal prac­tice in case of temporary (Muta) marriages, "so much so that a man who wanted child­ren had to make a special provi­sion in the Muta Marriage Contract so as not to practise 'withdraw­al'."[3]

For this reason, there is a lot of practical advice on birth control in Islamic literature, far more than in the fabled Hindu and Chinese sex manuals. A number of medi­eval authorities on Islamic law and medicine have writ­ten about birth control in a matter-of-fact, non-judgmental way. The greatest Muslim medic, Ibn Zakaria al Razi (Latin Razes) has given a list of 176 contrac­eptive or abor­tive techniques or preparatio­ns, while Abu Ali ibn Sina (Avic­enna) mentioned several dozen.[4] The Han­a­fi jur­ist Ibn Abadin allowed women to use birth control and to have an abortion until the 120th day of pregnancy, even without their hus­bands' consent.[5]

Even Ibn Taimiya, the 13th-century Hanbali theol­ogian who in most matters is the ack­nowle­dged godfather of today's "fu­ndame­ntalis­ts", permitted the use of contr­acep­tive devic­es. Ibn Taimi­ya's argument was based on a para­dox­ical implication of the doctr­ine of God's om­nipot­ence: no matter how you try to pre­vent concep­tion, if God has decided that a child will be con­ceived, schem­ing human beings are power­less to thwart His designs. Now, since God can always overrule the plans of man, the use of contra­ceptives does not really interfere with God's designs, ergo it is per­mitte­d.[6]­

In their innocence, some Islamic apologists use ar­guments to prove Islam's progressiveness concerning birth control regard­less of their nega­tiv­e implications in other respec­ts. Thus, the principal of an Islamic college writ­es: "Islamic jurispru­dence has always allowed the above-mentioned family plan­ning method with slave girls as it is one of its fundamental dictates that a slave girl becomes free the mo­ment she gives birth to a chil­d."[7]­­ So, to keep her in slavery it was al­lowed to preve­nt­ her from getting pregnant, which says a lot about the centrality of the institution of slavery to Islamic civilization.

Even more troubling is the context of the main in­cident in Moham­med's career which jus­tifies birth control (and is theref­ore routinely men­tioned as proof of Mo­hamm­ed's progres­siv­ene­ss). Mohammed's men had captured women from Mecca in the raid on a Meccan caravan at Badr (see next para), inten­ding to sell them back to their famil­ies for a handsome ran­som, but asked Mohammed if they could use them for their sexual gratif­ication. Con­sider­ing that the ransom would go down if the women were not retur­ned in their original con­dition, the Prophet told his men that they could freely go and rape them as long as they prac­tised coitus interrup­tus (Arabic azl). So, the Prophet con­doned host­age-taking and rape.[8] Nonethe­l­­­­­e­ss,­­ these two instances of clumsy apolo­g­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­etic­­­­s do con­firm that Islam approves of birth control.

4.2. Islam prohibiting birth control

In spite of this solid tradition of at least toler­ance to birth control, there is now a strong countercur­rent which objects to birth control and propagates a natalist policy. After at­tacking "the protagonists of Hin­dutva" for having "perfected the art of demagogy, deception and venom­ous communal propaganda" including the "oft-repeated ac­cusations that Islam is stri­ctly opposed to family plan­ning", Yoginder Sikand admits: "Their loud procl­amat­ions have been further legitimised by some ignorant and obscu­rantist mullahs, who also assert that Islam and family plan­ning are not compatible with each other."[9] Even the al­leged Hin­dutva prop­a­ganda that "Muslims are furiously mul­tiply­ing as part of a grand Islamic conspiracy to swamp the coun­try and con­vert it into a Muslim-majority state"[10] is candid­ly con­firmed by these "ignorant and obscurantist mul­lahs".

Leave alone Urdu pamphlets, a neatly published English book from the impec­cably Islamic Noor Publishing House (Delhi), Muham­mad Samiul­lah's Mus­lims in Alien Socie­ty, is suf­ficiently explicit about the demog­ra­phic desig­ns of contemporary Is­l­am.[11]­­­­­­­­­­ Samiul­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­lah rejec­ts family­­ plan­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­ning as a W­est­­­­­­­ern ploy to diminis­­h the num­bers of the Muslim population in order to maintain its hegemo­ny. The core of his argument is that birth control has no sanct­ion from the Quran nor from the example and sayings of the Proph­et. Since others have claim­e­d just the op­posite, a close reading of the source texts of Islam is needed.

As Samiullah notes, Moham­med sanct­ioned, even com­manded, the practice of coitus inter­ruptus, the then most read­ily availa­ble method of birth control, in the after­math of the battle of Badr, his first great victory which yiel­ded him a number of woman hostages. For the present dis­cus­sion, the point which Samiul­­­­­­­­­­­­­lah wants to make is that this guidel­ine laid down by the Prophet was contrad­icted by the Prophet himself on later oc­casi­ons. Samiul­lah reco­unts a number of Ahadis (episodes of the Prop­het's life ser­ving as the authoritative basis of Is­lamic law) where the Prop­het opposed this method of birth control.[12]­

Thus, after the cam­paign against the Banu al-Mus­taliq, the Mus­lims wanted to rape the hostages and asked Moham­med whether they should practise azl, but the Prop­het replied, with reference to the futility of human scheming before God's omni­potence: "It does not matter if you don't do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrec­tion will be born." Since this (and similar ones) is a later Hadis than the one containing his pro-azl in­junction at Badr, it over­rules the ear­lier one, at least accor­ding to the theologi­cal principle that in case of contradiction, the earlier pronoun­cement is overruled by the later one.[13]

Admit­tedly, the fact that the Prophet encouraged azl on at least one occasion does create some legal room for birth contr­ol, and Samiullah concedes that it is exp­lic­itly permitted in case the woman is in poor health and could not bear the burden of preg­nancy and the effort of deliv­ery. But the main weight of Mohamm­ed's nor­mative opini­on­, Samiul­lah argues, is certainly on the side of natalism and against birth-contr­ol. Hence the Prophet's prohi­bition, at least on one oc­casion, of knowi­ngly marrying a sterile woman; his prohi­bition of non-vaginal inter­course (another primi­tive form of birth contr­ol); and his strict prohibition of sterili­zation and of voluntary celibacy.

4.3. Islamic natalism

Hindu Revivalist authors have dug up some more quotati­ons to support the perception of natalist designs in Islam. K.S. Lal quotes Mohammed as saying in so many words: "Marry women who will love their hus­bands and be very prolific, for I want you to be more numerous than any other people".[14] Ram Swarup quot­es­­­­­­ the Prophet as saying: "In my Ummah, he is the best who has the larg­est number of wives­."[15] Even a secul­ar Muslim can­did­ly calls it "one of the fun­damental tenets of Is­lam -- namely, to multiply the tri­b­e."[16]­

Samiullah's point is that as a general policy, the Prophet opposed any behav­iour which was demographically was­teful and unproductive. He was less fussy about oc­casional loss of semen in sterile forms of inter­course than Moses' laws had been, but as a rule he favoured the same natalist policy. ­Samiullah opines: "Had the monster of 'Birth Contr­ol' as an instrument of state policy raised its head in the days of the Holy Prophet, he would surely have declared Jihad against it in the same manner as he waged Jihad against Shirk (polytheism­)."[17] And he concl­u­­­­­­­­d­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­es: "The Qur­'an­ says that 'Chil­dren are an ornament of life' and Ha­dith lit­era­ture views with favour larger families for the gre­ater strength of Ummah, and as such birth control / family plan­ning cannot be in any way com­patible with the Shari'­a­h."[18]­

Samiullah argues, not unconvincingly, that the Sharia position is supported by modern science. He cites findings that both the birth-control pill and vasectomy, once (or still) propag­ated as entirely harmle­ss, are in fact harmful to the concerned person's health.[19] He also shows that the popularization of the pill and other mo­dern forms of contraception has contributed immensely to freer sexual mores in the West, or what he calls immorality. With all this, Samiul­lah has put together a battery of Islamic plus secular arguments which are bound to sound convin­cing to the Muslim mas­ses.[20]

Another Indian Muslim author telling Muslim women to "shun birth control" is Muhammad Imran, whose book is published by the Markazi Maktaba Islami ("Isla­mic Educati­onal Centre"), Delhi, the leading provider of Islamic school­books.[21] He em­phasizes that "birth control should be resorted to only in cases of extreme neces­sity, such as the wife's ill-health owing to constant births. Imam Abu Hanifa holds it makruh (abomi­nable)."[22] He too invokes the auth­o­ri­ty of Wester­­­­­­n scien­tists to dismiss it as un­healthy, and points to its "unde­rmining" effects on mor­al­ity in Wes­tern socie­ty.[23]

4.4. The Rabita's natalism

The Indian Muslim authors quoted are not alon­e.­­­ Thousa­nds­ of preac­hers instil the same natal­ist resolve into their flock, even in coun­tr­ies like Egypt and Banglad­esh where this position is actual­ly subver­sive of the Government's official anti-nata­list policies: "Even in over­populated Egypt the theologi­ans reject family plan­ning, at best they merely tolerate the generally inef­fective steps which the Gover­nment take­s."­[24]­

The natalist and anti-contraceptive line is even defended by the world's most powerful Islamic or­ganizati­on, the Rabita al-Alam al-Is­lamiyya (World Is­lamic Leag­ue). At the UN Conference on Popul­at­ion in Cairo 1994, a number of Muslim countr­ies joined hands with the Vatican in opposing contraceptives and abortion. On the occasion of this UN conference, the Rabita called a meet­ing chai­red by the Saudi king, where a resolution was passed "against the legalization of abortion (...) against a policy of con­ceding sexual rights to adoles­cents and unmarried persons (...) against raising the marriageable age (...) We want to make it clear: the Islamic Sharia is against abortion. (...) We strongly oppose the prop­osed resolution which pleads for complete equality between man and woman." The resolution also alleges that birth control polic­ies are but a Western ploy to mask exploitative desig­ns, and conclud­es: "If the world's riches are hone­stly divid­ed, there will be enough for all, and there will be no reason to limit the number of children."[25]­

The Cairo Conference was a bone of contention in the Muslim world. Sudan, Saudi Arabia and Malaysia boycot­ted the Conference. The Egyp­tian Grand-Mufti Mohammed Sayed Tantawi defended the Conference against a condem­nation of its agenda by Al-Azhar unive­r­sit­y.[26] Egyp­tian opposition newspapers at­tacked the Conference, alleging that its anti-natalist agenda would lead to all kinds of immora­lity and the unde­rmining of parental authorit­y.[27] Thirty prominent Muslims ap­proached the courts in a failed­ attempt to have the Conference banne­d.[28]­­­­ Is­lamic spokes­men denoun­ced­ the UNO plans as a conspira­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­cy­ agai­nst "the Islamic bomb, viz. the exponen­tial incre­ase of the number of Muslims worldwid­e".[29]

The Sudane­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­se Gover­­nment denoun­­­ced the Con­ference as "a ploy to depopulate the Arab count­ries [and] to mini­mize the popul­ation increase in the Muslim world", and ap­plauded the state­ment by a professor of Al-Azhar that the Con­fere­nce inten­ded to "dest­roy the Muslim nati­on".[30]­­ While some Muslims favour a realis­­­­­­­­tic popu­l­ation polic­­­­­­­­y, it is un­denia­ble that others approach the matter in terms of demog­raphic war­fare.

4.5. Why Muslim natalism?

The contrast in the Muslim world between the medieval tolerance of birth control and the modern opposition to it can be expla­ined. First of all, even these medieval writi­ngs on con­tra­ceptive meth­ods have never prea­ched popula­tion cont­rol as a gene­ral policy. Samiullah is probably right to the extent that he distinguishes bet­ween people's private lives, where Moha­mmed did not prohibit birth control, and public policy, where Moha­mmed took a natal­ist posit­ion. In prac­tice, birth control as con­doned by Moh­ammed and the medieval Muslim authors was never on such a scale that it en­dange­red the steady increase of the Muslim per­centage, if only because there was a cons­tant trickle of converts from the non-Muslim com­muniti­es. Most importantly, there was a situation of unchal­lenged Muslim dominati­on, not one of Muslim decline and subser­vience to other powers, as in the 20th century, nor one of permanent conf­ron­tation with a non-Muslim majority as in con­tem­porary India.

Demography is a bigger concern today because Islam is fighting for its survi­val, if not for world supremacy. Muhammad Samiullah is explicit about the good reason for natalism: "There is no denying the fact that the politi­cal prest­ige and military strength of a country depends upon the size of its popul­ation. (...) In the Islamic context greater populat­ion has a double sig­nifica­nce because one cannot wage an effective Jihad without an expanding popula­tion."[31]

We may probably generalize that the demographic ebul­lience of Muslim com­munities is for the largest part the innocent and autom­atic result of, firstly, the age-old desire to see the tribe incre­ase, which Mohammed merely confirmed but did not in­vent; and secondly, of the status of woman in Islam, which is strongly conducive to her exclusive motherhood. However, in the pres­ent geopo­litical cir­cumst­ances, certain powerful Islamic or­ganiza­tions have added to these natural fac­tors a deliberate strategy of strength­ening the posit­ion of Islam by multiplying its num­bers. Though they do not have a monopoly on Islamic or­tho­doxy, they do influence Muslim collective behaviour to a subs­tan­tial extent, espec­ial­ly in (what is to Islam) a frontline state like India.

4.6. So, who was right?

The Hindu revivalists are essentially right about the ongoing subs­tan­tial incre­ase in the Muslim percentage of the Indian popul­ation. A realistic extrapolation into the future of present demogra­phic (incl­uding migratory) trends does predict a Muslim majority in the Subcon­tinent well before the end of the 21st century, and a Muslim majority in the Indian Union sometime later, but in some regions much earlier. The demogra­phic dif­ferential is not of such a magnitude that Muslims will soon outnum­ber Hindus in the whole of India; but it is large enough to create Mus­lim‑­ma­jority areas in strategic corners of the country, "two, three, many Kashmirs!"

Hindu revivalists who argue that Muslim have a higher birth rate, that their percentage is growing fast, and that this is the result of an intentional policy on the part of at least a section of the Muslim leade­rship, are right. It is not just that they "have a point" or that they "­deserve a hearing", no: they are nothing less than right. Only the exact quantity of the trend is a matter for dispute.

And why stop our conclusion with finding the Hindu position right? The data just surveyed also teach us something about the secularists who have ridiculed and thoroughly blackened the said Hindu position: they are wrong. We have not used any esoteric figures inaccessible to the common man; all these data were at the disposal of the secularists. Yet, some of them insist that the Muslim percentage will remain constant, or that the Muslim incre­ase is proportionate to relative Muslim poverty. The fact deserves to be noted: a whole class of leading intellec­tuals brutal­ly denies easily verifiable facts, i.c. the accelerating increase of the Muslim and the decrease of the Hindu per­centage, and the inten­tionality behind this Muslim demographic offensive.


[1] Yoginder Sikand: "Bogey of family planning and Islam", Observer of Business and Politics, 27-2-1993, with refere­nce to B.F. Musallam: Sex and Society in Islam (Cambridge 1933).

[2] Quoted in Lucas Catherine: Islam voor Ongelovigen (EPO, Antwerp 1997), p.215.

[3] Yoginder Sikand: "Bogey of family planning and Islam", Observer of Business and Politics, 27-2-1993.

[4] Quoted in Lucas Catherine: Islam voor Ongelovigen, p.216.

[5] Quoted to this effect by Yoginder Sikand: "Bogey of family planning and Islam", Observer of Business and Polit­ics, 27-2-1993.

[6] Quoted to this effect by L. Catherine: Islam voor On­gelovi­gen, p.216.

[7] Wasi Ahmad Siddiqi: "Family Planning and Prophet", letter in Indian Express, 30-4-1990.

[8] Though Ram Swarup discusses this and similar epis­odes (Unde­rst­anding Islam through Hadis, p.61-62, ref. to Sahih al-Muslim 3371), he does not draw attention to this revealing aspect pertaining to Islamic ethics.

[9] Yoginder Sikand: "Bogey of family planning and Islam", Observer of Business and Politics, 27-2-1993.

[10] Yoginder Sikand: "Bogey of family planning and Islam", Observer of Business and Politics, 27-2-1993.

[11] Muhammed Samiullah: Muslims in Alien Society (Delhi 1992), esp. ch.8: "Islam and Birth Control", p.86-97.

[12] Samiullah: Muslim in Alien Society, p.87.

[13] This exegetical principle (called nashk) is dispu­ted by some progres­sive theologians. Thus, concer­ning the relations with non-Muslims, the older verses are more restrained while later verses are very combattive; but Mah­mud Shaltut, Rector of Al-Azhar in 1958-63 (Koran and Fighting, reprod­u­ced in R. Peters: Jihad in Classical and Modern Islam, Markus Wiener, Princeton 1997, esp. p.80-82) rejects the view that the more peace­ful verses stand abrogated by the later, more warlike ones. His argument is that all of them are divi­nely reveal­ed and therefore valid; it is up to the inter­preter to rhyme seemingly cont­ra­dictory verses toge­th­er, rather than ar­rogantly declaring some of God's verses invalidated.

[14] Quoted from T.P. Hughes: Dictionary of Islam, p.314, who refers to book 13 of Mishkatu'l Masa­bih ("nic­hes for lamps [of the tradition]", a compilation of Sunni tradit­ions by the 12th-century Imam Husain al-Baghaw­i, expanded in the 14th century by Shaykh Waliuddin).

[15] Katib al-Wâqidî (= Ibn Sa'd): Tabaqât Ibn Sa'd, vol.2, p.146 of the Urdu translation from Nafees Academy, Karachi; quoted by Ram Swarup: Understanding Islam through Hadis (Voice of India 1989), p.57n.

[16] Saeed Naqvi: Reflections of an Indian Mus­lim (Har-Anand, Delhi 1993), p.32.

[17] M. Samiullah: Muslims in Alien Society, p.90.

[18] M. Samiullah: Muslims in Alien Society, p.97.

[19] See e.g. Dr. Ellen Grant: The Bitter Pill (Elm Tree Books, London 1985), which presents the (grim) medical case against the birth-control pill.

[20] That this natalist position has struck roots among ordinary Muslims may be illustrated with the case of Moham­med Tofazzal Mollah: he was sacked as Imam at the village mosque of Bahipara (northern Bangladesh) because his wife had been sterilized after having given birth to six childr­en. The village population ral­lied behind the two Maulanas who had issued the fatwa condemning the poor Imam. See: "Imam faces fatwa as wife refuses to con­ceive", Indian Express, 18-11-1993.

[21] M. Imran: Ideal Woman, Delhi 1994 (1981), p.66.

[22] M. Imran: Ideal Woman in Islam, p.66.

[23] M. Imran: Ideal Woman, p.68.

[24] "Iranische Theologen für Geburtenkontrolle" (Ge­rman: "Iran­ian theol­ogians in favour of birth control"), Frankfu­rter Allgeme­ine Zeitung, 19-1-1990. The main thrust of the article is that in Iran's Islamic Republ­ic, the theologians are more loyal to the regime and its policies (i.c. the switch from a natalist to a moderately anti-natalist policy), while in Egypt, they take a doctrinaire Islamic line against the "secular" Govern­ment policies.

[25] Mecca, 3-9-1994, quoted in L. Catherine: Islam voor On­gelovigen, p.217.

[26] "Kaïro-konferentie verdeelt moslims" (Dutch: "Cairo Con­ference divides Muslims"), De Morgen (Brussels), 24-8-1994.

[27] "Egyptische islamisten verwerpen konferentie" (Dutch: "Egyptian Is­lamists reject conference"), De Standaard, 17-8-1994.

[28] "Rechter weigert konferentie te verbieden" (Dutch: "Judge refuses to prohibit conference"), De Morgen, 31-8-1994.

[29] "'Vrouwen zijn sleutel voor de ontwikkeling'" (Dutch: "'Women are key to development'"), De Morgen, 17-8-1994.

[30] "'Westerse delegaties zullen ernstige risico's lopen': Khartoem waarsc­huwt VN-bevolkingskonferen­tie in Kaïro" (Dutch: "'Western delegations will run serious risks': Khartum warns UN Conference in Cairo"), De Morgen, 27-8-1994.

[31] M. Samiullah: Muslims in Alien Society, p.95-96.


And here are the references to the quotes provided by G.Sub:

"Marry women who will love their hus­bands and be very prolific, for I want you to be more numerous than any other people".[14]

"In my Ummah, he is the best who has the larg­est number of wives­."[15]"

Go to footnotes 14 and and you will see the references.
LONDON [MENL] -- India has begun training personnel from Iran's navy.

Indian officials said the training marked the first military cooperation between Teheran and New Dehli in a decade. They said the two countries were implementing a military agreement that included an exchange of visits by commanders, training, joint exercises and technical cooperation.

On March 8, the Iranian Navy completed a five-day training program at the Indian naval base in Kochi. Two Iranian Navy ships stayed in the southern Indian city for nearly a week and nearly 200 cadets underwent training.

The Indo-Asian News Service reported that the IRIS Bandar Abbas and IRIS Lavan anchored in Kochi on March 3. Bandar Abbas was termed a modified training ship; Lavan was described as an amphibious assault vessel.


NOTE: The above is not the full item.

This service contains only a small portion of the information produced daily by Middle East Newsline. For a subscription to the full service, please contact Middle East Newsline at:
editor@menewsline.com for further details.
thats one way to earn foreign exhange (and in this case a way to score brownie points with iran, for they may give us oil at consessional rates etc). we also earn by traning american and french pilots at siachen and traning us marines and uzbegs army personnel etc about jungle warfare in mizoram.
Hindus should not practice birth control.

Birth control pills are harmful for a female's health.

I don't practice birth control at all.
woops so you are female !!!

Norwegian mullah claims muslims will takeover Europe because they breed like mosquitos


Krekar claims Islam will win
Norway's most controversial refugee, Mullah Krekar, told an Oslo newspaper on Monday that there's a war going on between "the West" and Islam. He said he's sure that Islam will win, and he also had praise for suspected terrorist leader Osama bin Laden.
Mullah Krekar is making more provocative remarks in Oslo.


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"We're the ones who will change you," Krekar told Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet in his first interview since an uproar broke out over cartoons deemed offensive to Muslims.

"Just look at the development within Europe, where the number of Muslims is expanding like mosquitoes," Krekar said. "Every western woman in the EU is producing an average of 1.4 children. Every Muslim woman in the same countries are producing 3.5 children.

"By 2050, 30 percent of the population in Europe will be Muslim."

He claimed that "our way of thinking... will prove more powerful than yours." He loosely defined "western thinking" as formed by the values held by leaders of western or non-islamic nations. Its "materialism, egoism and wildness" has altered Christianity, he claimed.

Krekar, who's been supported by the Norwegian government since arriving as a refugee from northern Iraq in the early 1990s, now faces deportation after violating the terms of his refugee status and being deemed a threat to national security.

Bin Laden 'a good man'
Krekar told Dagbladet that he favours Islamic rule where political and religious leaders are one and the same. One such leader he respects, he said, is Osama bin Laden.

"Osama bin Laden is a good person," Krekar said. He claimed Osama bin Laden is considered a terrorist simply because he lacks his own state.

"Those who say Osama bin Laden is a terrorist are themselves killing our women and children," Krekar said.

Attempts to "spread democracy," he claimed, are merely a ruse to wage war against Islam, adding that "the West destroyed the Taliban regime in Afghanistan" because "it feared the Islamic state."
Muslims on track to takeover Australia by breeding


RU-486 Will Give Rise to Muslim Australia
by Joseph A. D'Agostino
Posted Mar 13, 2006

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It's Not Xenophobia, It's Xenonausea

Nuclear Diplomacy: Iran Needs Pressure

Cuba Says U.S. Spreading Technology Subversion, Anti-Castro Propaganda

Tell Waffling Republicans: No Amnesty!

Australia recently took two important steps that may greatly influence her long-term future. One was the vote of her parliament last month to legalize RU-486, the human pesticide. The other is the stepped-up campaign by Prime Minister John Howard’s government against multiculturalism.

During an event meant to highlight opposition to RU-486, pro-life Danna Vale, a Member of Parliament and of Howard’s Liberal Party, spoke of the growing threat to Australia posed by abortion and Muslims. “I’ve actually read in the Daily Telegraph, where a certain imam from the Lakemba mosque actually said that Australia’s going to be a Muslim nation in 50 years’ time,” she said. “I didn’t believe him at the time, but you know, when you actually look at the birthrates and you look at the fact that we are aborting ourselves almost out of existence by 100,000 abortions every year, and that’s on a guesstimate, you multiply that by 50 years. That’s five million potential Australians we won’t have here.”

Vale’s comment generated the usual politically correct denunciations, and she herself later admitted that she had been “clumsy.” “I was not speaking racially, despite the criticisms I have received from those sections of the media that act more like a fifth column rather than our fourth estate,” she wrote in an op-ed for The Age, February 25. “I was speaking demographically, even if, as I have already acknowledged, in a regrettably clumsy way. The focus of my concern was the disturbing fact that there are an estimated 80,000 to 100,000 abortions in Australia each year, a fact that does worry a majority of thinking Australians. A survey conducted by the Southern Cross Bioethics Institute found that 64% of Australians think the abortion rate is too high and 87% think it should be reduced.”

Vale said that she was not criticizing Muslims’ relatively high fertility rates. “Muslim Australians value their children,” she wrote. “It is non-Muslim Australians who are not having enough children, a point well made by the Herald last week, which cited figures that exposed a fertility fault-line in Sydney from Cronulla to Castle Hill. The area west of that fault-line, south-western Sydney, has fertility rates more than double those in other areas. Last year around budget time, Treasurer Peter Costello encouraged Australian mothers to ‘have one for yourself, one for your husband and one for Australia.’ Sound advice.”

Vale practices what she preaches. “Danna’s first two babies were born after very difficult pregnancies and when she became pregnant with her fourth child in the early 1970s, her third baby was only four months old,” says Gail Instance, Director of Family Life International-Australia. “Her obstetrician advised an abortion, which she refused. She told us that her decision then has been reaffirmed every day as she looks into the eyes of her youngest son.”

It seems that the imam’s prediction is actually unlikely for Australia, whose immigrants—unlike those into many European nations—are mostly non-Muslim. And though the Muslim birthrate in Australia is at least 2.7 children per woman, far higher than the country average of 1.7, Muslims make up only 1.5% to 3% of the population. Most of Australia’s immigrants currently come from China and other non-Muslim nations. Yet if immigration patterns change, the imam could turn out to be right. And certainly, barring major policy changes, Australia’s Muslim population is going to become much larger and much more influential over the next few decades.

Why might immigration patterns change, making a Muslim Australia a real possibility? Because non-Muslim Third World populations, especially in China and other such Asian nations, now have low birthrates. Muslim countries have relatively high ones. Replacement rate is 2.1. Take two large, poor Muslim nations in Australia’s region: Malaysia, 2.6; and Indonesia, 2.2. These aren’t high birthrates, but at least they are above replacement—and thus these countries could become major sources of immigrants for Australia, whose native-born people have so few kids that immigration is necessary to keep the economy going.

Regardless of how Islamic Australia becomes, high rates of immigration, low birthrates among the native population, and the anti-assimilation multiculturalist ethos are changing the country’s character. Those who value Australia’s Western, English, ordered, and Christian-influenced culture should be concerned. Unfortunately, Australians aren’t concerned enough to produce their future generations. Howard and many other members of the Australian government want to reduce abortion and rescue marriage, and yet couldn’t prevent parliament from legalizing dangerous RU-486, which is ten times more likely to kill the aborting mother than surgical abortion. That’s a sign of hard-set pro-abortion feeling controlling the people’s representatives, and at a time when Australia needs many more children.

That’s why Howard and pro-life Health Minister Tony Abbott announced March 6 a plan to provide $51 million over four years for abortion alternatives counseling, including a 24-hour helpline. “The government does not support changing the abortion law nor does it support restricting Medicare funding for abortion,” they said in a joint press release. “Nevertheless, the government wants to give more support to women who are or have been uncertain about continuing a pregnancy.” Counseling will be given by those with no financial connection to abortion, and women can request to get more information from organizations of their choice.

“Our birthrate is below replacement and common sense tells us that we are committing national suicide,” says Instance. “Bob Santamaria said years ago that we had better make up our minds who we want to give this country to since we don’t seem to want it.”

“While I respect Muslim support for pro-family and pro-marriage policies, especially at the UN, the negative side is that they also agree with polygamy, even in relatively moderate countries such as Malaysia and the Gulf Emirates,” says Babette Francis, head of the anti-feminist Endeavour Forum. “There is no doubt that the disciplined orthodoxy of Islam, prayers five times a day, clear strictures in regard to behavior, etc., are appealing to those who feel adrift in mainline Protestant churches, and to those who are ‘unchurched.’” Francis considers Islam to be a potentially serious threat. “The crucial problem is that we cannot rely on the division of Muslims into moderate good ones and terrorists,” she says. “There are devastating flaws in the religion of Islam itself and it will always be prone to terrorism and similar evils in a way that Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and Hinduism are not.”

Howard and Costello have announced that multiculturalism has got to go. Howard said that immigrants who do not “fit in” should not come to Australia, and Costello wants testing on cultural values before immigrants are allowed to stay in the country. In the meantime, radical Muslims in Australia are calling for jihad against their adopted nation’s own troops. Reported The Australian today, “’The Australian Government is part of a coalition that is inflicting untold horrors upon the Muslim world whether in Iraq or Afghanistan,’ the radical group’s spokesman, Wassim Doureihi, told The Australian yesterday. ‘There are bombs being dropped and there are children being killed and there are entire cities being uprooted.’” His group, Hizb ut-Tahrir, has praised suicide bombers and the like.

The simple fact is, any country with a sizeable Muslim population these days is likely to have problems with terrorists, murderers, and insurrectionists, not to mention polygamists and anti-Semites. No amount of politically correct platitudination can change that.

An increasing proportion of children being born worldwide are Muslim. So what does that mean for the future? Australia has decided to legalize the abortion pill while Muslims are against abortion. What does that indicate about the future character of the Australian nation?

Mr. D'Agostino, former Associate Editor of HUMAN EVENTS, is Vice President for Communications at the Population Research Institute.
Muslims to takeover Russia by breeding in 30 years

<b>Analyst Predicts Muslim Majority in Russia Within 30 Years </b>
By Meredith Buel
28 February 2006
A leading specialist on ethnic minorities in the Russian Federation says within the next several decades Russia will become a country with a Muslim majority. Paul Goble, a university professor and senior research associate currently based in Estonia, spoke Tuesday at the Washington headquarters of Radio Free Europe-Radio Liberty.

For 25 years Paul Goble worked for the U.S. government as an expert on minorities in the former Soviet Union.

He has been closely tracking what he describes as a huge demographic shift in Russia, a shift he says will have a major impact on the nation's relations with western countries.

"Within most of our lifetimes the Russian Federation, assuming it stays within current borders, will be a Muslim country," he said. "That is it will have a Muslim majority and even before that the growing number of people of Muslim background in Russia will have a profound impact on Russian foreign policy. The assumption in Western Europe or the United States that Moscow is part of the European concert of powers is no longer valid."

Goble, currently the Vice Dean of Social Sciences and Humanities at Concordia-Audentes University in Tallinn, Estonia, says when the Soviet Union collapsed, most western countries looked at influencing Russia from a European perspective.

He says, however, Muslim countries viewed the opportunity for migration and the spread of Islam from the Caucuses or the newly created states in Central Asia.

"The Muslim growth rate, since 1989, is between 40 and 50 percent, depending on ethnic groups," he said. "Most of that is in the Caucuses or from immigration from Central Asia or Azerbaijan."

Goble says in 1991 there were about 300 mosques in Russia. Today there are at least 8,000. He says about half of those were built with money donated from abroad, much of it from Turkey, Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Goble says the number of Russians going on the Hajj, or pilgrimage to Mecca each year, has jumped from 40 in 1991 to 13,500 last year.

He says there were no Islamic religious schools in Russia 15 years ago. Today, Goble says, there are between 50 and 60 teaching as many as 50,000 students.

He says the growing influence of Islam in Russia has led to mounting discrimination.

"At the popular level, prejudice against Muslims is way up," he said. "It is perceived that prejudice against Muslims is acceptable, it is something you won't get in big trouble for."

Goble says if the Russian government supports a hostile policy toward Islam and the continued suppression of Islamic militants in the troubled republic of Chechnya, the Muslims he predicts could come to power in Moscow will be, as he puts it, "anti-western, radical and dangerous."

Goble says, however, if there is an open dialog with moderate Muslims and an isolation of the small percentage of Islamic radicals, a non-threatening government could emerge.

In any case, Goble quotes one Russian commentator in Moscow as predicting that within the next several decades there will be a mosque on Red Square.

Interesting talk. Its an audio file you can download. Very educative.
Forgot to mention. One of the figure in the above audio is that TSP will be 4th largest country after Ind/China/US. He didnt go into religion per se. But it would be interesting to see any figures on the demographic impact on worlds religious composition.

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