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Demographic Politics And Population Growth - 2
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->but yet, the muslims did get some serious stick in the bombay riots, babri riots and the godhra riots didnt they?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And that is not due to Hindu orgs, in all those riots common Hindus came out to riot, if the RSS and other Hindu orgs were real serious militia then RSS activists will not get routinely murdered by Christians, Muslims and commies with no serious retaliation, a real militia is something like the LTTE. Further Hindu performance in all those riots is still lacking, over 30% of those who died in Gujarat were Hindus, with a near 90% in Gujarat that is a pathetic performance, inf a Muslim country 100% of the victims would have been kaffirs.
Educating muslims will not cut birth rate
SIMI , consisting of educated muslims has run an anti-family planning campaign since 1980

Studies show muslims outbreed poor, rural, illiterate, SC/ST hindus

Aurobindo is well and good
Yes organise hindus, but that takes centuries

Counterbreeding slows down islam and allows various tactics such as
Grameen, etc to unravel islam from the inside
Muslims do not take to jihadism if they are kept poor
They take to jihadism whenever they reach local demographic critical mass
Dilute the toxicity below critical mass by counter breeding and you stop jihadism
China is aging rapidly and will need workers soon, muslims can go to China. The middle east can always squeeze in a few million more. Africa's population decline due to AIDS may allow some muslims to settle there. Indonesia and southeast Asia can take some muslims also.

Counter breeding will be required.

BTW, does anyone know which groups in India are primarily affected by AIDS, it seems like Christians are the most affected by it?

<!--QuoteBegin-G.Subramaniam+Jan 29 2006, 08:36 PM-->QUOTE(G.Subramaniam @ Jan 29 2006, 08:36 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Muslims do not take to jihadism if they are kept poor
They take to jihadism whenever they reach local demographic critical mass
Dilute the toxicity below critical mass by counter breeding and you stop jihadism
Education will not be a replacement for counter-breeding, as I said. Educated Muslims are not 100% good, I know. But massive push for education is the only way GoI can campaign for closing down madrassas...and madrassas create more fanaticism than education.
I think the key thing is educating muslim women. Make them career oriented and show them freedom. GoI can setup women's schools and colleges at muslim dominated area so that the women there get educated. That will ensure that they don't want to live as the wife of nth husband and mother of 10th child.

Currently muslim women are completely dependend on their male members for survival. Looks like Mullas know this and they vehemently oppose education for women and freedom for them
All this takes decades and will never happen due to vote banks
Remember a lot of hindu secular politicians are addicted on the muslim vote bank and want the number of muslims to increase

So in reality nothing will happen
To protect yourself, have 5
i know about 2-3 hindu families who have 5 kids.
and i have been all over the country.

what bothers me is that when the muslim or tribal or even hindu parents have many kids - for whom they most likely arnt able to provide for, its the tax payers money that will go towards giving them free food, electricity, hand outs etc.

instead of that money being used to build roads, hospitals etc.

also so many future-less kids means increased crime later on.
Some people have posted here that the Goras can handle the internal muslim menace

In Western Europe, muslims do 80% of the rapes
In India there would be severe reprisal riots, in the west it is hushed up

Recently in Sydney, the 1% muslims went on a riot and the Aussies did not do anything

The west cannot handle the internal muslim
thats good news.

but my take on the whole demographic issue remains the same - instead of us spawning 5 kids each to keep up with them, we should try to push their birth rates below the replacement rates. female education has a one-on-one corelation with low birth rates - so that could give a starting point. unfortunately the govt wont do its bit - when bjp comes back in power, they should hammer UCC and 2 child policy home and kick out all illegal immigrants.
but my take on the whole demographic issue remains the same - instead of us spawning 5 kids each to keep up with them, we should try to push their birth rates below the replacement rates. female education has a one-on-one corelation with low birth rates -


Educated muslims outbreed uneducated hindus

No soft options to stop islam
Either breed 5 or enter a harem


so that could give a starting point. unfortunately the govt wont do its bit - when bjp comes back in power, they should hammer UCC and 2 child policy home and kick out all illegal immigrants.


UCC will never happen
Many hindus are addicted to muslim vote bank

2 child policy cannot be enforced on muslims without a civil war

Then 2 child policy does not stop illlegal immigrants

BSF takes bribes to let in BD illegals per George Fernandes

Illegal immigration cant be stoppped

"difficult things take a long time.
it takes a little longer to do the impossible"

- Chaim Wiseman... founder of Israel.
<!--QuoteBegin-ben_ami+Jan 31 2006, 10:17 PM-->QUOTE(ben_ami @ Jan 31 2006, 10:17 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->"difficult things take a long time.
it takes a little longer to do the impossible"

- Chaim Wiseman... founder of Israel.

Anything that will roll back islam takes a lot of time
and in the meantime islam has to be contained by counter breeding 5
a little longer it said, not a lot longer.

but all the best with your 5+ kids.
I started this thread 2 years ago and after thorough discussion, I am still sticking to the counter breeding theory
Please read the thread from the start to find that all your arguments have been answered already

Many hindus, commies, casteists etc want the muslim population to increase for vote bank reasons

Remember that the 10 mil BD illegals were imported by HINDUS for a vote bank

Hence rest assured that 2 child family will never be passed

Each man or woman needs to protect himself from the demographic islamic tide
It Will Be a Smaller World After All

The United Nations has finally changed its demographic predictions. Instead of foreseeing population growth or even explosion, the new estimates acknowledge that world population is on course to shrink--with significant social, economic, and strategic implications.

Remember the number 1.85. It is the lodestar of a new demography. It should change the way we think about the environment, economics, geopolitics, culture, our current Middle East dilemma-and about ourselves.

Demographers have typically worked on the assumption that human population would level off by achieving a "Total Fertility Rate" of 2.1 children per woman. Why 2.1? Two parents have two children. Sooner or later the parents die and are "replaced" by their two children. (The .1 accounts for children who die before their own age of reproduction.) Were the projection substantially higher, the result would be wall-to-wall people. If substantially lower, before too long there would be no people at all. Either trend moves in a relatively rapid geometric progression. So 2.1 it was. Very nice, the base line of a symmetrical, perpetual, and ordered universe.

But no longer useful. For the last five years UN expert meetings have examined a trend that has been ever-more apparent for several decades: Never have birth rates fallen so far, so fast, so low, so surprisingly, for so long, in so many places. Now the United Nations has made it official, breaking demographic crockery everywhere. Its 2002 World Population Prospects uses 1.85 children per woman as the point to which human population is tending in this century.

What Do the Numbers Mean?
The United Nations divides the 194 nations of the world into two groups: Less Developed Countries and More Developed Countries. The most surprising news comes from the LDCs. An image races across our mind's eye: A population explosion and its victims. We see a row of small children trailing a weary mother in a rotten, sprawling, unmanageable city.

In the 1960s the LDC rate was six children per woman. Today it is under three. Some major nations have declined from seven to two! Huge declines have occurred in Brazil, China, Iran, India, Egypt, Turkey, Indonesia, and--attention Pat Buchanan!--Mexico.

Fortuitously, this scenario gives the LDCs a "demographic dividend." For several decades they will have relatively few old or young people to support. The bulk of their population will be working-age and ready to produce, hopefully lessening inequality in the world.

Meanwhile modern nations proceeded from low fertility to incredibly low fertility. In the 1960s European TFRs were at 2.6 children per woman. Today, the rate is 1.3, as is the Japanese. The low fertility nations face massive pension problems. In a pay-as-you-go system, who will pay the senior bees when there are so few worker bees? In Europe and Japan workers typically retire before their sixtieth birthday and do not like to hear that they might have to work until they are older. Workers have marched while politicians hide under their desks.

The United States is the outlier nation. American fertility is in the 2.0-2.1 range. And we take more immigrants than the rest of the world combined. Accordingly, in the next fifty years America will grow by more than 100 million people while Europe loses somewhat more than that.

The low fertility countries face commercial problems. A growing population requires additional housing. So builders build and furniture-makers make furniture. There is a demand for more office space. When a population is stable there are some tear-downs and renovations.

But when populations actually shrink, where are the buyers and renters? An open economic system can deal with dislocations, but it takes time. Salespeople in real estate and cemeteries both sell plots, but they are in very different businesses.

Low fertility can also yield labor shortages. There is an irony. Such shortages in low-fertility nations could be alleviated by immigration from higher-fertility nations, from poor countries to rich ones. But Europeans are mostly trying to reduce immigration and deport immigrants, especially since 9/11, especially Muslims.

While the economy faces bumpy times, the environmental future looks better. The original global warming research was based on a UN projection of 11.6 billion people, far more than we are ever likely to see. Environmentalists believe that too many people cause too much pollution. Accordingly, there will be less pollution than expected. We will not run out of oil, water, clean air, or kryptonite. There will be plenty of wilderness areas (which already make up almost half the world's surface.) We can take further solace that we have not lost upside control of our species, an idea held and popularized by some explosionists. It is a form of mindless demographic deconstruction that still undergirds too much of modern thought beyond the realm of demography.

Many environmentalists feel abandoned by the new data. But there is still plenty to do. Notwithstanding the decrease in fertility, total population will rise from a little over 6 billion to 8-9 billion before starting to shrink substantially. That is a lot of people. They will also be richer, consuming more resources, driving their SUVs. But wealthy countries have the money and have demonstrated their ability to clean up their mess.

Watch for cultural and social change. AEI demographer Nicholas Eberstadt asks us to consider children growing up without brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, or cousins--but with lots more living grandparents and great-grandparents. In China's urban areas children are already called "Little Emperors." The hot sales item in Italy is pet food not baby food. Sad potential grandmothers I have interviewed say that a pet and no grandchildren is better than just no grandchildren.

Strategic Impact

The geopolitical effects are potent. There is not a one-to-one relationship between population and power, as North Korea demonstrates. But numbers matter. Big nations, or big groups of nations acting in concert, can become superpowers. America is one. China and India are billion-plus nations that may shape the world as the years roll forward. Europe will shrink and age--absolutely and relatively.

Should the world face a "clash of civilizations," America may find itself with weaker allies, or allies with ever-greater proportions of Muslim voters. America may then be forced to play a greater role in defending and promoting the liberal, pluralist beliefs and values of Western civilization. We may have to do more, act more unilaterally, not because we want to, but because we have to.

Ben J. Wattenberg, a senior fellow at AEI, is author of The Birth Dearth and coauthor of The First Measured Century.
P.K.Ohri supports counterbreeding to stop islam


February 12, 2006

Page: 26/29

Home > 2006 Issues > February 12, 2006

War on Jehad cannot be won unless we face demographic threats
By R.K. Ohri, IPS (Retd.)

Hold your breath, the biggest quantum jump in Muslim population (in terms of percentage) in the coming decades will take place in Haryana where the ration of Muslim cohorts is almost 60 per cent higher than that of the Hindu cohorts! Next in descending order will be Assam, West Bengal, Uttaranchal, Delhi, Nagaland, Bihar and so on.

A further analysis of the 0-6 years cohorts data reveals that out of 35 States and Union Territories listed in Statement 7, the percentage of 0-6 years Muslim cohorts is higher than that of Hindus in as many as 31 States and UTs. The percentage of 0-6 years Hindu cohorts is marginally higher than that of Muslims only in two States of Sikkim and Madhya Pradesh and two Union Territories of Daman & Diu and Andaman & Nicobar Islands. It means that in the coming decades the Muslim population will grow at a higher rate than that of the Hindus in 31 States and Union Territories. As recounted in Census 2001 India has a total of 35 States and UTs.

Statement 7 of Census 2001 Religion Data Report is self-explanatory. It vividly depicts the looming dark shadow of future demographic changes across the country. Here I must reiterate that future demographic trends, based on the data given in Statement 7, are totally unalterable, because these children are already born and will enter reproductive age between 2011 and 2016 and continue to reproduce for the next 30 to 40 years.

Statement 7 of Census 2001 Religion Data Report is self-explanatory. It vividly depicts the looming dark shadow of future demographic changes across the country.

It is very surprising how and why the Indian intelligentsia do not try to understand the reasons that prompted the Prime Minister of UK, Tony Blair, to advise all British couples to opt for the five children norm (two more than what Shri K.S. Sudarshan, Sarsanghachalak, RSS, prescribed for Hindus). Why have in recent years most European countries announced liberal cash bonuses to those couples who opt to have more children? Why did Peter Costello, Australia’s Chancellor of the Exchequer, announce an attractive incentive of 2,000 Australian dollars for every child born after June 2004? Perhaps the growing fear of the huge population of jehad-infested Indonesia has prompted Australia to do a rethink on their population policy. Robert Costello gave a clarion call to his countrymen emphasising that every couple must have at least three children, preferably many more, saying: “One for the father, one for the mother and one for the country.” (Source: Hindustan Times, May 13, 2004, P.1). Similarly, Pope Benedict XVI too has given a call to the Catholic community of Europe to opt for more children. Prima facie Shri Sudarshan is in good company of international leaders like Tony Blair, Nail Ferguson and Robert Costello, all keen observers of the latest global population trends and alerting their countrymen. Incidentally in the UK and Australia no one laughs at or ridicules Tony Blair or Peter Costello. Obviously, as a nation the British and the Australians continue to be much more rational and sagacious than us, the myopic Indians.

India has a growing tribe of sham-secularists who might ask why this global panic? What is the problem? Where is the problem? Well, the answer is that in the year 1900 the Muslims constituted only 12 per cent of the world population; they grew to 18 per cent in 1992-93 (when Huntington published his first thesis on the clash of civilisation). By 2003 the Muslims became 20 per cent of the global population. And by 2025, barely 19 years away from now, they will constitute 30 per cent of the world population. (Source: Spangler, The Decline of the West, cited by Samuel Huntington). According to some demographic estimates, Muslims might constitute anything between 37 to 40 per cent of the world population by 2100 AD. Correspondingly, in recent years the numbers of jehads worldwide have also multiplied in tandem with the growth in Muslim population, our next-door neighbour Thailand being the latest entrant to the growing list of faulting conflict zones.

Nail Ferguson (a strategic analyst who teaches contemporary history at Harvard) wrote in The Sunday Times, London, in April 2004, that in another 50 years time Europe was likely to become a Muslim-majority continent. And his warning has alerted most countries of the continent. Some enterprising futurologists have renamed Europe as “Eurabia”. According to a write-up, which appeared sometime ago in The Economist, London, fearful of the growing Albanian clout in the Balkans, many well-to-do Macedonians are migrating out and the destination of choice is New Zealand. Apparently they no longer consider Europe safe for their children and grand children. Nail Ferguson has drawn further attention to the fact that due to low fertility rates and increasing life expectancy by 2050 one in every three Italians, Spaniards and Greeks is likely to be 65 years or older. So the ‘old Europe’ will become more older. He has drawn attention to the fact that the birth rates of Muslim societies (i.e., including those Muslims who live in non-Muslim countries) are more than double the European average. Citing the example of Yemen he has pointed out that by 2050 its population could exceed that of Russia (based on United Nations forecast assuming constant fertility rate).

In regard to the growing hostility of French Muslims towards fellow Christians, a common leftist refrain (heard both in France and India) is the inability of the French government to resolve the massive unemployment among Muslim youth. In the context of the recently witnessed car-burning frenzy in France, a gentleman questioned the obsession of leftists about unemployment problem, at the house of a friend. He asked point blank how an economically debilitated country like France, which has a growth rate of less than two per cent (like most EU nations), could create millions additional jobs for the galloping Muslim population. Additionally, France is burdened by an overwhelming national debt and remains steeped in the traditional culture of 35 hours work-week.

The Indian intelligentsia do not try to understand the reasons that prompted the Prime Minister of UK, Tony Blair, to advise all British couples to opt for the five children norm (two more than what Shri K.S. Sudarshan, Sarsanghachalak, RSS, prescribed for Hindus). Why have in recent years most European countries announced liberal cash bonuses to those couples who opt to have more children?

It is time that the Indian middle class and opinion-makers understood the long-term climactic consequences of the existential demographic crisis writ large across the Indian horizon. While analysing socio-economic aspects of the latest census, the well-known demographer, Prof Ashish Bose, has estimated that presently in 49 districts Muslims already constitute more than 30 per cent of population. (Source: Economic and Political Weekly, Mumbai, January 29, 2005, p. 371, table 4). A back-of-the envelope calculation made by us, in the light of the Muslim growth rate of the last two decades, shows that Muslims will attain majority status in all these 49 districts, any time between 1991 and 2111, perhaps even earlier. What might happen thereafter is anybody’s guess. It has the potential to give a massive fillip to the growing jehadi fervour in the sub-continent.

The foregoing cold facts should ring a loud alarm bell good enough to wake up all those who want to ensure long-term survival of secularism in India. The problem has global dimensions, too. It is unfortunate that while the world has woken up to the threat of changing demography, we Indians continue to slumber under the influence of dopelaced lullabies broadcast by communists and fellow-traveller sham-secularists.

(The writer is a retired Inspector General of Police and author of the book, Long March of Islam.)
very very alarming.

and i still believe the best solution is to neuter muslims after theiur 2nd kids, sharia be damned.

i still believe that india's best hopes rest with bjp's return and the imposition of UCC - a part of which will have the 2 child rule, applicable to people in rural areas and urban shanties, who live off free electricity and hand outs.

the sooner sonia is shunted out the better - something tells me she, with sound advise from the vatican, is the real reason why india has this muslim appeasement attitude. not to mention that its the congress party which is chiefly responsible for this do-anything-for-votes-nation-be-damned sort of politics, with ample help from the cpim in wb, the laloo party in bihar, the tribal parties in jharkhand etc.

i do not see the politicians ever doing anything that could benifit india. if they could have it their way, they'd have 100% reservations for lower castes, dalits, muslims, christians, tribals and shunt us out. but at least we have the supreme court which fixed the ceilling at 50% odd. similarly unless people like the author of the above article and other policy making sane hindus in the legislature and judiciary, decide enough is enough and implement a 2 child policy on all lower income groups (90% of muslims fall in low income groups), then we will have no option but to ante up and start having many kids each. which would mean we would be playing right into the hands of the muslims. those assclowns have nothing better to do in life than to make babies and live off the tax payer's ass. they dont mind if they cant afford to educate their kids. cos illiterates make good jihadis. but we have better things to live for. middle class hindu parents who have 5 kids instead of say 2, cant possibly send their kids to the right colleges in india, let alone abroad. so by having loads of kids, we will end up squandering the advantage of education that we have on the koran mugging lotasthanis.

the other option is europe - once the scale tips in eurabia, i hope those scum emigrate there en-mass. i hope the white collar manual labour types who work in the gulf never come back. we'd be too glad to get rid of trash.
and we in turn shoudl shunt them out of jobs, of educational system and make it tough for them to exist here. dont go to a rickshawwallah who is muslim, dont eat in irani dhabas, dont buy muslim goods or from shops owned by them - strangle them economically. we should also stop having muslims in the army and air force. cant trust those fellows - recently a mian-beta combo was caught selling info to isi.

damn !!! india is in such a mess. i wish sanjay gandhi was alive and became the pm instead of his gigolo brother. we would have at least fixed the bpl-population problem to some extent. and also would not have been burdened with a barmaid for pm.
<span style='color:red'>i want to suggest some thing to all members - active (those who post regularly) and inactive (those who mainly read).

we have but 1000 odd members - not many hindus come to know about the serious discussions that go on here.

so when-ever you see posts as relevant and alarming as the one by GS, you should start a chain e-mail. copy paste it and send it to your friends, with instructions to send it to their friends and so on. we could also include the url of this forum in the e-mails. and besides e-mails, we could let others know about the forum through chat rooms and messenger service.

for a forum that has SO much of info about so many relevant subjects, we hae very few members. i have seen movie and guitar forums have more members. there is no point in having a post as good as that of GS"s, if only 20 odd people read it.

so i suggest we do our bit to spread the word. about the forum (in chat rooms) and about the important posts, especially those which are expert opinions/articles (by chain e-mail).

the most important card we have up our sleevs is the demographically, economically, historically aware middle class indian. and we should do our bit to increase the number of the "aware" hindus. i am sending the article to all my friends. you do too.</span>
Muslims breed from 8% to 25% in 50 years in Macedonia

Have 5 or be islamised


The process of industrialization and urbanization after the WWII that caused the population growth to decrease involved the Macedonians to a greater extent than the Muslims. Rates of increase are very high among rural Muslims: Turks and Torbesh are 2.5 times those of the Macedonian majority, while Albanians and Roma have 3 times as high. This has resulted in a significant demographic change as the Albanian population part has swelled from 8% after WWII to 25% in the 1990s. This have caused political tension for a long time and ultimately after a brief conflict forced the country to undertake reforms that decentralized the government.

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