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Demographic Politics And Population Growth - 2
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I am not saying that everything will be fine at once. I am not saying that counetr-breeding is not required. All I am saying is do the immediate thing first. There has to be a push on science-maths education and a shut down of madrassas.
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No.

Educated muslims are more dangerous than the illiterate ones.
Most of the top terrorists are well educated.

We need to keep the muslims illiterate & dumb.
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i wish the bjp had not screwed up and was still in power.

they almost nearly added some sanity to india's education carriculums.

we need that badly - to learn about the attrocities commited by islamics opn us, to teach about small-family-happy-family from school level etc.

also missionaries should be kicked out ASAP.

when does the bjp have the next chance of comming to power, aside of 3 more years?? you can answer that in another thread.
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<!--QuoteBegin-mitradena+Jan 29 2006, 08:06 AM-->QUOTE(mitradena @ Jan 29 2006, 08:06 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I am not saying that everything will be fine at once. I am not saying that counetr-breeding is not required. All I am saying is do the immediate thing first. There has to be a push on science-maths education and a shut down of madrassas.
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No.

Educated muslims are more dangerous than the illiterate ones.
Most of the top terrorists are well educated.

We need to keep the muslims illiterate & dumb.
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agreed but sex education and family planning related stuff could be handy.

also the right kind of sops - free electricity only if they have 2 or fewer kids etc.
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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->agreed but sex education and family planning related stuff could be handy.
also the right kind of sops - free electricity only if they have 2 or fewer kids etc.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No.

No education, no sops, absolutely nothing.
This is total war.

Keep the Muslim dumb, illiterate & fanatical. Let the idiots do something rash.
This will ghettoize them and trap them in a cycle of poverty & unemployment.

This is the best way to destroy them.
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and what if all that poverty and disaffection spawns more LeT sypmathisers who will team up with naxalites and blow trains and bridges?
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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->How do you explain the fact that UK and Germany are biggest contributors of Xtian missionary aid in India after America?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Many white people just donate to any charity they come across, for example world vision, most of them really don't know that it does missionary activities so when they see ads about the Tsunami disaster and other stuff they donate to charities they come across (which can also happen to be Christian missionary charities), further even if they knowingly donate to Christian charities they still don't know what these charities do, they think that they help third world people etc but they don't know about the disturbances caused by their missionary activities. Forget Europeans how come so many Hindus in India send their kids to Christian run schools and even think missionaries do good social service, if so many Indian Hindus are so unaware then I don't expect people in far off Europe to know much. Also Western govt's may also use taxpayer money to sponsor Christian missionary charities (example Bush) to perpetuate their domination in the third world but the average US citizen probably is not that aware of such things.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Hindus need to leave Europe within the next 20 years if they want to remain Hindu. The reason we are all in the west is for money. Once we earn enough, we need to go back to India. This a topic for another thread.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why should Hindus leave Europe, they pay their taxes and contribute to society, a better thing to do is just start counterbreeding in Europe also, take UK Muslims are about 2% and Hindus probably 0.9% so there is not much difference right now so if we start counterbreeding right now then we can prevent Muslims from becoming majority and gain ourselves some new territory in Europe, yes there will be resentment from goras about Hindus also doing counterbreeding but they will prefer a Hindu majority to a Muslim majority once they see the effects of having a Muslim majority in countries like Norway and France, Hinduism is now a global religion and is no longer confined to India so Hindus have to move ahead with times.
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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->and what if all that poverty and disaffection spawns more LeT sypmathisers who will team up with naxalites and blow trains and bridges?
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

This is precisely what we want.

They do something rash. Then moderate Hindus swing to our side.
Then we finish them off.

Problem solved.
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Bharatvarsh,

See my reply in a new thread.
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which new thread.... at least post the link here so me and other readers can know where the rest of the convo has gone.
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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Keep the Muslim dumb, illiterate & fanatical. Let the idiots do something rash.
This will ghettoize them and trap them in a cycle of poverty & unemployment.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And will further increase Muslim population leading to the doom of Hindus, in Bangladesh due to some sort of grameen programs the Muslims there breed even lesser than Indian Muslims, family planning education and sops along with an expose of Islam and shuddhi are a must if we want to prevent Islamic takeover, all these should be done along with counterbreeding.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->This is the best way to destroy them.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How will it destroy them, it will actually increase their numbers, if you mean to say that you want to keep them that way until the situation comes out to an all out war leading to the killing of every Muslim then that is a very foolish and dumb and unethical policy, Islam is not some genetic disease inherent in people, Muslims will also leave Islam, to kill them when you can solve the problem with much lesser bloodshed shows a mindset that wants war for the sake of war, Muslims leaving Islam is the only permanent solution and no Hindus are not a pure race and neither does intermarrying with reconverted Muslims do anything bad to Hindus as you seem to think, a sage as great as Swami Vidyaranya himself reconverted Harihar and Bukka and Shivaji reconverted Netaji Palkar and Balaji Nimbalkar (and no this did not lead to the destruction of our ethnicity, whatever that means lol).
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One very important strategy would be to militarize Hindu society i.e. RSS kind of sakhas, public training of arms/martial arts. That will raise self-confidence of Hindus. I can't help remembering Sri Auribindo's suggestion that first Hindus should consolidate, then the Muslim problems will be resolved automatically. It is the lack of unity among Hindus which is cause of Indian problems.

Do you know howsoever hard mullah tried, the Hindu reiligous TV channels are having effect on Muslims psyche. These Hindu preachers are slowly and slowly getting in to the closed mind of Muslims...there is a small window here.

I have myself seen many Muslims attending Baba Ramdeo yoga classes. If nothing else yoga does inculcates some sense in a shut mind.

Hindus have become self deprecating. How many of us ever read Bhagavada Gita, Sanskrit or other scriptures??

Young Hindus feel pride in speaking a language which is way less evolved than Sanskrit. The education system inculcates tremendous inferiority complex among students about Indian culture. I remember from my own experience Indian education systems gives tremendous Inf-complex about Hindu religion...what to say about California books. Having first hand experience of some countries and comparing our culture with other cultures, I can say now with pride.....' Sare Jahan se Achcha Hindustan Hamara'.

However, not many Indians feel the same way. Every body is chasing moolah. Cutting throat and deceit has become so rampant that whole society stinks. There is no respect for the country, culture or religion. Teens feel on cloud nine yapping away in Pomlish.

Hindu society is capable of producing reformer and the time is right for a ne reformer. With political institutions collapsing and people losing faith on scamsters, it is matter of time before people lose patience.
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Muslims will also leave Islam -
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and become what???

hindus?

who will accept them?
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I can't help remembering Sri Auribindo's suggestion that first Hindus should consolidate, then the Muslim problems will be resolved automatically.
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can you quote the exact reference please.

i didnt know aurobindo also advocated a tough stand against muslims. against poms i know. the only anti muslim author i know from back in those days, is the author of Vande matram (btw, why hasnt our sensor board banned that damned song - "maa tujhey salaam".... do indians salaam their parents?? orcall them "tu". it should have been maa apko pranam)
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<!--QuoteBegin-ben_ami+Jan 29 2006, 08:50 AM-->QUOTE(ben_ami @ Jan 29 2006, 08:50 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->I can't help remembering Sri Auribindo's suggestion that first Hindus should consolidate, then the Muslim problems will be resolved automatically.
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can you quote the exact reference please.

i didnt know aurobindo also advocated a tough stand against muslims. against poms i know. the only anti muslim author i know from back in those days, is the author of Vande matram (btw, why hasnt our sensor board banned that damned song - "maa tujhey salaam".... do indians salaam their parents?? orcall them "tu". it should have been maa apko pranam)
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(Sri AurobindoSmile I am sorry they are making a fetish of this Hindu-Muslim unity. It is no use ignoring facts; some day the Hindus may have to fight the Muslims and they must prepare for it. Hindu-Muslim unity should not mean the subjection of the Hindus. Every time the mildness of the Hindu has given way. The best solution would be to allow the Hindus to organize themselves and the Hindu-Muslim unity would take care of itself, it would automatically solve the problem. Otherwise, we are lulled into a false sense of satisfaction that we have solved a difficult problem, when in fact we have only shelved it.
http://voiceofdharma.com/books/ir/IR_part3.htm
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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->and become what???

hindus?

who will accept them? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes they can become Hindus or follow some other religion as long as its not another abrahamic religion although I personally prefer for them to become Hindus and Hindus will (and must) accept them, just like they are accepting the Christian reconverts and the occassional Muslim reconverts and just like they accpeted the Arya Samaj reconverts.
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i wont marry a muslim woman with turkic or arab blood who converts to hindusim.

i dont think its good news for hindu women either, if afghan hounds declare themselves brahmins and marry hindus.
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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->And will further increase Muslim population leading to the doom of Hindus, in Bangladesh due to some sort of grameen programs the Muslims there breed even lesser than Indian Muslims...
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It is not going to increase their birth rate any more than it already is.
Muslim birth rates are not related to education or income.

I am not sure the statistics from Bangladesh are trust worthy.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->How will it destroy them, it will actually increase their numbers, if you mean to say that you want to keep them that way until the situation comes out to an all out war leading to the killing of every Muslim then that is a very foolish and dumb and unethical policy, Islam is not some genetic disease inherent in people, Muslims will also leave Islam, to kill them when you can solve the problem with much lesser bloodshed shows a mindset that wants war for the sake of war, Muslims leaving Islam is the only permanent solution and <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Illiterate Muslims become unemployable.
Further higher Hindu birth rate will create a demographic wall.
This will force them to leave India in search of jobs.

Problem solved.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->no Hindus are not a pure race and neither does intermarrying with reconverted Muslims do anything bad to Hindus as you seem to think
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This is not what our ancestors thought.

Indian muslims can be divided into two camps:

1. Indian origin
2. Arab, Turk or mixed origin.

The Indian origin ones are welcome back.

The foreign origin ones will never be loyal to India.
Even if we "convert" them to Hinduism, what is the guarantee they will be loyal to India?

If tommorow another new power arises that is enimical to Hinduism, what is the guarantee these "converts" will not join the new enemy?


<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->a sage as great as Swami Vidyaranya himself reconverted Harihar and Bukka and Shivaji reconverted Netaji Palkar and Balaji Nimbalkar (and no this did not lead to the destruction of our ethnicity, whatever that means lol).
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

These people were originally Hindu, so they are welcome back into the family.
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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->One very important strategy would be to militarize Hindu society i.e. RSS kind of sakhas, public training of arms/martial arts. That will raise self-confidence of Hindus. I can't help remembering Sri Auribindo's suggestion that first Hindus should consolidate, then the Muslim problems will be resolved automatically. It is the lack of unity among Hindus which is cause of Indian problems.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes militarization is a very important and much needed step but sorry to say it will not solve the Muslim problem, at best it can lessen Muslim jihadism and once demography tilts way too much even militarisation will not save Hindus (example Sikhs were much more organised and militarised and yet they got ethnic cleansed from West Punjab thanks to demographics), a more recent example is the case of Lebanon xtians who had several xtian militia but still got ethnic cleansed thanks to demographics, from Wikipidea:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Christian militias

Lebanese Forces logoChristian militias armed by West Germany and Belgium drew supporters from the larger and poorer Christian population in the north of the country. They were generally right-wing in their political outlook, some of them formed under early impulses from European Fascism. All the major Christian militias were Maronite-dominated, and other Christian sects played a secondary role.

The most powerful of the Christian militias was that of the Kataeb, or Phalange, under the leadership of Bachir Gemayel. The Phalange went on to help found in 1977 the Lebanese Forces which came under the leadership of Samir Geagea. A smaller faction was the extremist Guardians of the Cedars. These militias quickly established strongholds in Christian-dominated East Beirut, also the site of many government buildings.

In the north, the Marada Brigades served as the private militia of the Franjieh family.

Sabra and Shatila Massacre
See Sabra and Shatila massacre

After conferring with Phalange leaders, Sharon and Eitan bypassed the Israeli cabinet and sent Israeli troops into West Beirut, violating the Habib agreement; these troops helped transport approximately 200 Phalange personnel to the camps, which the Phalangists entered on 16 September at 6:00 P.M. The Phalangists remained in the camps until the morning of 19 September, massacring an estimated 700-3000 Palestinians, according to official Israeli statistics, "none apparently members of any PLO unit" (Smith, op. cit., 380-1).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So the xtians were organised and militarised and yet they got ethnic cleansed and compared to militia like the Phalange the RSS and other so called Hindu militant organisations look childish with their stick fighting antics.
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but yet, the muslims did get some serious stick in the bombay riots, babri riots and the godhra riots didnt they?
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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->i wont marry a muslim woman with turkic or arab blood who converts to hindusim.

i dont think its good news for hindu women either, if afghan hounds declare themselves brahmins and marry hindus.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good stick to your own community and the afghan Hindus will marry among themselves, no one is begging for Bengali blood and Hindu women will decide for themselves whether it is good or not.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->It is not going to increase their birth rate any more than it already is.
Muslim birth rates are not related to education or income.

I am not sure the statistics from Bangladesh are trust worthy.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong it will keep their birth rate at where it is right now and can even increase it, even if their birth rate stays the same it is still disastrous.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Illiterate Muslims become unemployable.
Further higher Hindu birth rate will create a demographic wall.
This will force them to leave India in search of jobs.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have already dealt with this before, where will they leave?, to Pakistan and they will infiltrate in again later just like Paki Muslims are doing right now, let us say they will all all go to Arabia, do you have a guarantee they will not invade again in the name of Jihad?

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->This is not what our ancestors thought.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some of our ancestors a few hundred years ago also taught that child marriages were alright so let us bring back child marriages.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Indian muslims can be divided into two camps:

1. Indian origin
2. Arab, Turk or mixed origin.

The Indian origin ones are welcome back.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And how do you know which ones are foreign and which ones are not and further what % of foreign blood is required to consider a person foreign, maybe we can start having Nazi like racial classifications and U.S like racial laws a century ago where different states had different rules regarding the % of black blood that would classify a mixed person as a Negroe.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The foreign origin ones will never be loyal to India.
Even if we "convert" them to Hinduism, what is the guarantee they will be loyal to India?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you know where Ahoms come from?, they are people who arrived into Assam in medieval period and later got Hinduised and they fought every Muslim attack and kept Assam free while some of the 100% blueblooded and so called Suryavanshi Kshatriyas like Rajputs were busy giving their daughters to Muslims and collaborating with Muslims while others of their own community like Maharana Pratap Singh were fighting the Mughals, maybe you can enlighten us how come the foreign Ahoms defended Indian territory while some of the natives didn't? and no there is no guarantee that they will stay loyal to India just like there is no guarantee that Hindus of native ancestry will stay loyal to India (ever heard of Man Singh, Jai Singh etc).

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->If tommorow another new power arises that is enimical to Hinduism, what is the guarantee these "converts" will not join the new enemy?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And what is the guarantee that Hindus with native ancestry will not join this new enemy?
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