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Dual Citizenship: New Policy

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Question: Is MMS just stalling?

Dual citizenship for overseas Indians: PM

Press Trust Of India
Posted online: Friday, January 07, 2005 at 1142 hours IST
Updated: Friday, January 07, 2005 at 1613 hours IST

Manmohan Singh Mumbai, January 7: Dual citizenship will be extended to all overseas Indians who migrated from India after January 26, 1950, as long as their home countries allowed it under the local laws, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh announced on Friday.


Inaugurating the Pravasi Bhartiya Divas in Navy Nagar in Mumbai, Singh said his government will simplify application form for citizenship for overseas Indians.

A new user-friendly form, combining the three forms prescribed earlier, had also been evolved and will be notified soon, he added.

The Prime Minister said that his government would simplify the format of the certificate of registration of overseas citizens of India. Various options, including the possibility of introducing a smart card, are being considered, Singh added.

Similarly, he said, his government had unveiled a civil aviation policy to meet the requirements of the overseas Indians by allowing Indian private airlines to fly abroad.

He said the government is building new international airport in major metros and will soon modernise 30 other airports across the country. About 2,500 delegates, including 1,500 overseas Indians from 60 countries, are participating in the three-day meet, which would also have a special plenary session on disaster management in view of the devastating tsunami tragedy and deliberate over problems faced by Indians in the Gulf.

The Prime Minister said the government should try and wean away the NRIs in the Gulf from bank deposits to debt or even equity-oriented savings.

He noted that India owes a lot to the people of Indian origin in the Persian Gulf whose regular financial remittances home have played an important role in building the country's foreign exchange reserves that now amount to over 130 million dollars.

Singh said that there are many issues of concern for NRIs in the Gulf, including those pertaining to work contract and conditions. He assured them that the ministry of overseas Indian affairs would try to resolve these issues and also protect the returns on their savings.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Dual citizenship will be extended to all overseas Indians who migrated from India after <b>January 26, 1950,</b> as long as their home countries allowed it under the local laws, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh announced on Friday.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

What the heck !!!! That will include the jerks who migrated to the left ???????? About the only good thing that happened about partition is back ??? <!--emo&:o--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ohmy.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Somebody please tell me this is not the case.. <!--emo&Sad--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Unlikely that TSP or BD will allow dual citizenship. Also, how many migrated TO TSP or BD after 1950?

But yes, its a good question. I have the feeling that this is the Marxists' way of sabotaging the Dual Citizenship law that was passed in Dec. 2003.

BTW, the current forms etc. can be seen here:


The site is pathetic, for the IT SuperPower of the world.
Also, note that their idea of Dual Citizenship is still that an Indian citizen loses Indian citizenship upon accepting any other citizenship, and then has to APPLY for a piece of paper that says s(he)'s a NRIC. No Indian passport, I presume. That's lousy.

As usual, it looks to me that the Govt. of India shows contempt for Indian citizens and kisses up to foreigners.
Current issue of India Abroad has the NY Counsul General recommending 'Overseas citizenship'
Link to Overseas citizenship
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->By Descent (section 4)

<b>A person born outside India on or after 26th January 1950 but before 10th December 1992 is a citizen of India by descent, if his father was a citizen of India at the time of his birth.</b> A person born outside India on or after 10th December 1992, is considered as a citizen of India if either of his parents is a citizen of India at the time of his birth. From 07th January 2004, a person born outside India shall not be a citizen of India by virtue of this Section, unless his birth is registered at an Indian consulate within one year of the date of birth or with the permission of the Central Government, after the expiry of the said period. An application, for registration of the birth of a minor child, to an Indian consulate under Section 4(1) shall be made in Form I and shall be accompanied by an undertaking in writing from the parents of such minor child that he or she does not hold the passport of another country.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

What does this mean ? Would Musharrag be considered an Indian citizen by birth ? Why do they just say the father ? What about mother ?

We should find out about the number of people who migrated after 1950. I think migration carried on for atleast a decade.
India should desist from granting dual citizenship: Ghorpade

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->[India News]: Pune, Jan 7 : India should desist from granting dual citizenship to overseas Indians as this concept was "flawed and dangerous" in an era of terrorism, counsel for Indian Government in Great Britain, Bhaskar Ghorpade said here today.

"People with dubious credentials would also benefit from the decision and no purpose would be served by granting dual citizenship to overseas Indians. Many among them neither have seen India nor do they have any modicum of Indianness in them having lived abroad for years," he told reporters.

Ghorpade's comments came after Prime Minister Manmohan Singh announced that dual citizenship would be extended to all overseas Indians who had migrated after January 26, 1950 at the three-day Pravasi Bharatiya Divas which commenced in Mumbai today.

The Barrister further said that Singh himself had opposed the concept of dual citizenship in 1994 while on a tour of that country and was of the opinion that granting of Orange Card to the overseas Indians was enough.

"It was foolhardy to believe that the overseas Indians would invest in India," Ghorpade said adding, that all they wanted were free visas and political power.

"India is what it is today not because of the overseas Indians but due to the hardwork of the one billion Indians," Ghorpade, who has been staying in London for over two decades, said.

He said the correct way to describe overseas Indians was Indian Citizens Abroad (ICA). PTI<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow! Having a "counsel" like that arguing for India is like giving a whole fleet of F-22s to Pakistan.

What the buggers have done is to renege on what the Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha passed in Dec. 2003.

There a VERY important distinction had been made. Consider the following.

Clause IX of the Citizenship Act of 1955 said that if u got citizenship of another country, u lost Indian citizenship.

The Act of 2003 said that this would NOT apply to people who got citizenship of those 16 countries. IOW, if u waited like The Boy Who Stood on The Burning Deck all these years until that Bill was passed and signed off by the Rashtrapati, and THEN got citjenship in one of those 16 countries, YOU CONTINUED TO BE INDIAN.

All u had to do was send ur passport in to be stampled "OIC"

Now these Commies have changed that to where you have to lose ur Indian citizenship and then:

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The rest of the problem has been solved previously <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The NY Consulate makes it very clear that they are NOT granting dual nationality or dual citizenship. Its just that they want to reduce the bureaucracy at the airports. IOW, now if one were to hold a US Green Card and Indian Passport - and applied ang got US citjenship, then one changes to having a US Passport and Indian "SmartCard".

The buggers have once again done what they do so well. Stab Indians in the back. So much for the "Counsel".
And now, to see the crystal clarity and transparency of the GOI:

Here's PM ManMohan Singh, Jan. 7, 2005:

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Delivering the inaugural address at the opening of the third Pravasi Bharatiya Diwas 2005 (PBD) here, Mr Singh said: “The government has decided to offer <b> dual citizenship </b> to all overseas Indians who migrated from the country after January 26, 1950, as long as their home countries allow dual citizenship under their law.”<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Here's the Indian Consulate-General in Noo Yoik, January 8, 2005:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Overseas Citizenship is not Dual Nationality : It may kindly be noted that Overseas Citizenship is not a full citizenship of India and, therefore, <b>does not amount to dual citizenship or dual nationality. </b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And just so the aam janta can see exactly what the law says, in full detail, they refer you to the blank pages of the Ministry of External Affairs.
<b>Dual citizenship has serious lacunae: Sorabjee</b>
Saturday, 08 January , 2005, 22:25
Mumbai: The dual citizenship has serious lacunae that needed to be sorted out, former Attorney General of India Soli Sorabjee opined at a session on `Private International Law and the Diaspora.
"If we want to involve the diaspora then we can’t deny them right to vote or the right to occupy important offices," Sorabjee said and added that things in this regard needs to be made clearer.

He was chairing the session attended by eminent lawyers, judges and law professors.

Sorabjee said that the country also needs to evolve laws over custody of children in case of divorce and needs to address the domicile and citizenship issues.

The gathering came up with a common consensus on the need for a comprehensive enactment to deal with violations especially in marriages, divorce and child custody cases.

Agreeing with Sorabjee, Justice K Sukumaran, chairman, committee on reviewing the working the of immigration act accepted that the lacunas existed and said the problems of enforceability of judgements pronounced in Indian courts primarily exists in case of countries which are not reciprocal in dual citizenship.

Additional Solicitor General B A Desai said that the concept of domicile was one thing that needed attention as India has different concepts at state and federal level.

"It can be divisive," he said while accepting that this can’t be removed overnight.

He said that the dual citizenship would be more useful for the next generation which seems to be losing touch with its cultures and traditions. He said that it would make the cultural assimilation easier for the next generation.

He also said that there was a need for an university to meet the needs of the NRIs.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Dual citizenship: Who will benefit?

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NEW DELHI: The Prime Minister's announcement that dual citizenship would be extended to all overseas Indians (OIs) has been greeted with much fanfare, but it may not mean very much on the ground. While the gesture is certainly likely to go down well with the diaspora, not too many OIs are actually likely to benefit from it, at least not immediately.

In 2004, the benefit of overseas Indian citizenship — which has come to be referred to as dual citizenship in common parlance — was made available to persons of Indian origin (PIOs) of 16 countries: Australia, Canada, Finland, France, Greece, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Netherlands, New Zealand, Portugal, Cyprus, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom and United States. What the PM’s announcement has done is to extend this to all OIs.

However, two important caveats in what he said make the practical significance of the extension quite questionable. To start with, only those who migrated after January 26, 1950 can become Indian citizens. Secondly, they will be eligible only if their home nations’ laws allow dual citizenship. There is no indication that there will be a diplomatic effort to persuade others to also grant dual citizenship. So who are the potential beneficiaries?

According to the report of the L M Singhvi Committee on the Indian diaspora, in 2001 there were 50 countries with more than 10,000 OIs — including NRIs who are already Indian citizens. These 50 include 12 of the 16 covered by last year’s proposal. Of the remaining 38, 29 don’t allow dual citizenship, which means OIs in these countries don’t benefit from Friday’s announcement. This includes all of West Asia, with a sizable Indian population besides Fiji, Malaysia and Singapore.

Five more countries including South Africa and Trinidad & Tobago are those where the bulk of Indian migrants went over a century ago and hence by virtue of the 1950 clause, these are not really relevant. So are there really any beneficiaries?

The Indian diaspora in Spain, numbering 29,000 and ranked 38th in terms of the size of the Indian population, seems to be one that could benefit. Other countries with dual citizenship laws and an Indian population of over 10,000 include Nigeria, Russia and Lebanon.

Of course, apart from people classified as PIOs, the latest announcement could benefit NRIs too if they wish to acquire a foreign citizenship without completely cutting off the umbilical cord with India. But they would then have to first give up their ordinary Indian citizenship once they become foreign citizens and then apply for overseas Indian citizenship. Dual citizenship with Pakistan or Bangladesh is a non-starter as these countries are specifically excluded from the purview of the Citizenship Amendment Act, 2003.

What exactly does 'overseas citizenship' imply for those who get it? On the downside, it means you would not be allowed to vote, run for political office or take government jobs. But on the positive side, there are a number of benefits to look forward to. Broadly, the overseas citizenship would put one on par with NRIs. Such 'citizens' can now travel without a visa to India and stay for over 180 days without having to register, which those holding a simple PIO card can't do. Also, dual-citizenship holders would be allowed to invest in agriculture, plantations and purchase property, which again is something PIOs can't do. Education at Indian institutes of higher learning would also be accessible. Considering that the fee is just $275, that doesn't seem like a bad deal.

The process of registering dual citizens has already begun although quite slow. Under the new law, citizenship would be granted on a case-by-case basis because of security concerns, the government has said. But registration procedures are being simplified and there is a possibility that certificates may be issued in smart-card form. Also, instead of three forms, a single user-friendly format would be evolved and notified.

<b>MY QUESTION: CAN AN "oic" GET AN INDIAN PASSPORT WITH THE COOL 3-LION-BABUS ON THE FRONT?</b> <!--emo&:bhappy--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/b_woot.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='b_woot.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->MY QUESTION: CAN AN "oic" GET AN INDIAN PASSPORT WITH THE COOL 3-LION-BABUS ON THE FRONT?   <!--emo&:bhappy--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/b_woot.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='b_woot.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah , They are making NRIs "Gobi ka phool" <!--emo&:bevil--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/b_evil.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='b_evil.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well. at least if they put MMS, SG and Lalloo PY on the OINC Certificate they can call it

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Good, the Bad and The Ugly<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> Card.

This stinks. Are there simply not enough NRIs out there who feel stabbed-in-da-back by this?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Advani cautions on granting dual citizenship to all PIOs </b>
Ahmedabad, Jan. 12 (PTI): Cautioning that granting of dual citizenship to all Persons of Indian Origin (PIO) from all countries was fraught with danger, Leader of the Opposition L K Advani, today asked<b> Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, if mafia don Dawood Ibrahim, and Chhota Shakeel would be welcomed</b>.

Addressing the Global Investors' Meet here, <b>Advani asked "Does this mean that mafia don Dawood Ibrahim, Chhota Shakeel and others, who have found safe havens in Pakistan and some Gulf countries, would be welcomed with dual citizenship?"</b>

<b>"Does this mean that millions of Bangladeshi infiltrators staying in India under the conniving eyes of Congress- Communist regime, can be granted dual citizenship if they claim that they were originally Indians who had migrated to East Pakistan?", Advani said</b>.

Recalling that Singh, while inaugurating the Pravasi Bharatiya Sammelan in Mumbai, had said that "I am aware that this (dual citizenship) was promised at the previous two editions of this event and I regret little has happened to implement this declaration of intent",<b> Advani said he was both "baffled and deeply disappointed" that "Singh had surrendered himself to the temptation of a politically motivated denigration of the NDA Government". </b>

Advani said "Let me put the records straight... On December 23, 2003, our Government got the Citizenship (Amendment) Act, 2003 passed in Parliament. This legislation confers the right of dual citizenship to PIOs who are citizens of 16 countries including Australia, Canada, France, Greece, the UK, the US, Switzerland", Advani said.

<b>"Given the immense complexities injected into our illegal migrant detection and deportation procedures by the Congress- Communist regimes, the Prime Minister's assurance would certainly be a sweet music to nearly 12 million officially estimated Bangladeshi infiltrators staying in India", Advani said. </b>

The event, organised by the Gujarat Government, was inaugurated by Vice-President Bhairon Singh Shekawat, and attended by Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi, and Reliance Group Chairman Mukesh Ambani, among others.
This <b>d</b>ual <b>c</b>itizenship is another <b>d</b>upli<b>c</b>ity that is being perpetrated on the NRI and PIO by subsequent governments. It was a sham, it is a sham, and it will be a sham.

Consider this scenario: I am an Indian citizen by birth and by descent, residing abroad for many years. If I accept citizenship of my host country, does anything, and I mean absolutely anything, change for me as an Indian citizen? Would I still be eligible to be the President of India [not that I am running any time soon <!--emo&Tongue--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo--> ] If any thing, however miniscule, changes, then it is <b>not</b> dual citizenship.

Under the current plan, I would have to first <b>relinquish</b> my Indian citizenship and then apply for the so called dual citizenship <!--emo&:furious--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/furious.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='furious.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Apart from that, I am really disappointed at the rider that the so called dual citizenship would be granted provided the other country allows the same. This is not some kind of trade or barter that we should be expecting any reciprocity. Here, we are talking about <b>our</b> citizens. Or are we?
I realise that I am getting into a topic which I dont have too much knowledge. Anyhow, here goes..

I am not a legal expert but IIRC the relinquishing part is neccesary while taking US citizenship. IOW one has to relinquish one's original citizenship before taking up US citizenship. In general dual-citizenship laws are a mess everywhere. Even in case of US (again IIRC) the dual citizenship is not explicitly granted but its not abolished either.

Running for public office while being a dual citizen is another tricky thing. Not sure if we want our PMs, Super PMs, Puppet PMs to be holding dual citizenship.

Reciprocity clause is again a good thing. In its absence we will have our SuperPM replace our PuppetPM which might effectively take us back 57 years and would have to wait for tryst-with-destiny speech for god knows how long..

IMO dual citizenship has to be taken up in bilateral manner case-by-case - just like extradition treaties, avoiding dual taxations and so on. One size wont fit all.

Dual Citizenship FAQ:

Helpful link
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->IOW one has to relinquish one's original citizenship before taking up US citizenship.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

This of course, is the major stumbling block - when one gets to the part on the US form which says: "if this is granted, you will be expected to take the following oath.."

and the oath says: "relinquishing all others..... "

However, volumes have been written on this, and the present US understanding is that it does NOT constitute a lie to swear to this, although one feels very strongly about one's motherland. Consider: otherwise they would have to put all the british-Americans and the Israeli-Americans in jail for sure.

There is another side to this. Apparently (this from someone who's been there - in certain parts of the government where such things become very important) they tell you:

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->We can help you out of trouble in any country .... except your motherland. There, your US passport is not worth a thing unless they choose to respect it, and we don't have any standing.  <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

So... the US already accepts a sort of dual citizenship.

Now I can see where India can say, "hey, buddy, you swore 'relinquishing all others' so you have to sign off on the Pledge again". I'll be glad to do that any time.

And the GOI should ensure that one does not get into this situation where the Constitutions of the two countries are so different - because ultimately, what u are swearing to protect and defend in both places is the Constitution. With US-India or UK-India, the differences are miniscule - in fact that's so with most democracies.

This is why its a BAAAAAAD idea to go dual with places like, say, KSA or other places with nitwit constitutions. Forget TSP, of course.

The GOI is acting like the damn sepoy coolies that they are. Worrying only about "phoren log kya kahenge?" and kicking the Indian citizen in the teeth.
I agree with US-India and UK-India differences being minscule. And I think the earlier bill which listed 16 (?) countries was good enough. This expanding to all countries is just plain stupid. Commies at work, methinks.

If anything the DC act needs to be studied further and deeper and perhaps better documented to understand voting rights, property rights, taxation, public office and other such things. Instead by expanding it to all countries dilli has basically screwed up the whole thing. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->basically screwed up the whole thing.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And I think that was the intention.
Dual citizenship — Driven by pride and pragmatism

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