The Reign Of Ramaraya And The Battle Of Talikota

[Hauma Hamiddha]

One of the most fateful events in Hindu history was the battle of Talikota that occurred during the time of Ramaraya who was the de facto ruler of Vijayanagar. Several attempts have been made by secularist writers to paint Ramaraya as a villain and downplay his eventful reign. He did commit miscalculations in different directions: 1) He killed many of Hindu Nayakas and replaced them by his own clansmen resulting in considerable discontent amongst the Hindu elite. He seized power through intrigue from the clan of Krishnadeva Raya and made himself the principal ruler of the Vijayaganagar Empire, displeasing many of the chiefs. 2) In a manner similar to the modern Indian state, he went against the age-old policy of the Vijayanagara state in recruiting Moslem soldiers indiscriminately in his army. 3) He destroyed the traditional Hindu civil service officials to place his own favorites and henchmen in their place. But he was by no means a slouch when it came to defending the Hindu Dharma at a very critical junction.

The chaos following Krishnadeva’s death resulted in the Hindus coming under assault from many directions. The local chiefs of the Tamil country were in an intercine revolt, while Francis Xavier, the Portuguese Christian terrorist, was wreaking havoc on the Gulf of Mannar and reaping large numbers of converts. The Jesuit and Franciscan friars were planning a plundering raid on the rich temples of Kanchipuram. The Portuguese also captured the port of Nagore and were plundering the temple of Ranganatha there. This was when the Hindus appealed to Rama Raya to save from the Christian terror. Rama Raya dispatched his cousin, Chinna Tirumala (Timma) to deal with this task. Chinna Timma first conquered the Chandragiri fort and squashed the southern rebellion. Another traitorous Hindu chief of the fort of Bhuvanagiri was trying to make common cause with the Portuguese but the fort was stormed by Chinna Timma. From there he marched along the coast and crossed the Kaveri and attacked the Portuguese army in Nagore. The invading Christian army was butchered and the wealth stolen by the Christians from the Ranganatha temple was recovered and restored. From there Chinna Timma and his brother Vitthala defeated rebellious chiefs in Madurai, Puddukotai, Tanjavur, Tuthukudi and the Keralan chief of Travancore was also brought in line. Then Chinna and Vitthala set up a tower of victory in Kanya Kumari after massacring and driving out the Christian garrison stationed there. The temple at Tiruvanantapuram was also repaired.

The Christian brigand Martin Desouza of Goa damaged and plundered the Bhatkal port and the Catholic priests were spreading a reign of terror in the Konkans. Ramaraya repulsed him and cleansed the place of the violent Christian evangelists. He was replaced by Joao Decastro, who negotiated a peace treaty with the Hindus and established a horse trade market. However, five years later the Christian missionaries were fanning out into the Konkan and robbed the Tirupati temple in an undercover raid and tortured Hindus along the coast. Ramaraya launched a retaliatory strike on the Christian garrison of San Thome. A large Portuguese army set out to help the San Thome garrison from Goa. But Ramaraya’s cousin Vitthalaraya launched a preemptive attack on the Goa army along with another Vijayanagaran division under Sankanna Nayaka of Ikkeri. The Christians faced a major set back and were repulsed. Ramaraya killed all the major Jesuit friars who were spreading terror in the country and captured 5 other senior bishops whom he ransomed for 100,000 pagodas.

However, before Vijayanagar could effectively liberate Goa itself, the Moslem rulers, Adil Shah and Nizam Shah made a common cause to wage Jihad on the Hindus. Adil Shah invaded Vijayanagar, but Ramaraya who was dealing with the Christians dispatched his general Sadashiva Nayaka to deal with the Moslems. The Moslem army was routed and retreated in disarray. Rama Raya then started playing the 5 Moslem Sultans against each. He induced Nizam Shah to attack Barid Shah and kept them engaged with each other. Then he engineered a treaty where by the Moslems would collectively be under the eye of Vijayanagara. Ramaraya then invaded Bidar itself and defeated Barid Shah and brought him under his control. Thereafter, Ramaraya’s brother Venkatadri defeated the army of Qutb Shah and seized the southern districts of the Golconda kingdom. As result of Qutb Shah and his ally Nizam Shah’s retreat the Kalyani fort was taken by Vijayanagar. Then Ramaraya decided to deal with Nizam Shah while Adil Shah was fighting Qutb Shah. The Vijayanagaran army entered Maharashtra and besieged Ahmednagar. However, at the decisive moment the Hindus were robbed of their ultimate conquest by the flooding of the Sina river that washed away their baggage train forcing them to fall back. Not deterred by the retreat, the Vijayanagaran army turned to attack Golconda and pin down Qutb Shah who had just been defeated by Adil Shah. He tried to counter-attack by assaulting the Hindu fortress of Kondavidu. But the Hindu army repulsed his attack and inflicted heavy losses on the Moslem army. Ramaraya devastated the Qutb Shahi kingdom and captured its mainline of defensive forts of Kovilkonda, Ganpura and Pangal. Ramaraya also demolished the Mazaars and Masjids that had been built on Hindu structures. During his invasion of Ahmednagar he took the opportunity even while retreating due the weather to demolish a large Masjid that had earlier been erected on a Hindu shrine. All these sent a clear message to the Moslem rulers.

At this point the Moslems realized that they were puppets at the hands of the Hindu ruler decided to make a common cause for a concerted Jihad to end the Hindu kingdom. The first sealed their friendship through a series of dynastic marriages and then had a combined meeting to sign a pact for Jihad. They gathered together their armies on the plains of Bijapur at the end of 1564 and built up an enormous Islamic horde of around 700,000 troops. This vast army started marching southwards with considerable speed. Ramaraya faced the situation calmly and on Vijayadashmi day 15th September 1564 asked his generals to prepare for an all out war with the Moslems. By December the Moslems reached Talikota, a fortified town near the Krishna river and declared holy war on the infidels. Ramaraya took all the right steps. He sent his brother Tirumala with a large force to prevent the Moslems from crossing the Krishna. He sent his other brother Venkatadri to defend the south bank of the Krishna and he himself came in next with the rest of the army to form the rear. The total Hindu armies appear to have been between 500,000 core troops, plus the mercenaries. The main chinks in the Hindu armies were the two divisions of a total of about 140,000 troops which belonged to Moslem commanders who had been hired foolishly by Ramaraya after their eviction from Bijapur by the Sultan. These divisions were along with Ramaraya’s main divisions.

By December 29th 1564 the first battles broke out. Qutb Shah and Nizam Shah, who were great friends, decided to go on their own first and led their divisions to clash with Tirumala’s division. The Hindu army inflicted a huge defeat on the Moslems and the Sultans fled in disarray losing thousands of men in the encounter. The Sultans were shaken by this encounter and asked Adil Shah to forget previous arguments and stand by them for the intended Hindu counter-attack. The Sultans met secretly and decided that the only way to succeed was to resort to stratagem. Nizam Shah and Qutb Shah decided to parley with the mighty Raya who was now planning a massive counter-thrust into the Moslem flanks. At the same time Adil Shah sent a false message to the Hindu commander that he wished to remain neutral. While this was going on messengers from the Sultans went to the Moslem commanders in the Vijayanagaran army and appealed to their religious duty of Jihad and secured their alliance to launch a subversive attack. As a result of these parleys Ramaraya delayed his counter-thrust giving a small but critical time window for the Moslems to regroup. Sultan Imad Shah of Berar made the first thrust by attacking Tirumala’s division guarding the Krishna ford. Tirumala fell upon him with his full force and in short but intense encounter destroyed the Sultan’s army and sent him flying for life. However, the euphoria of this victory proved short-lived as the sultans Nizam Shah, Qutb Shah, Barid Shah on one side and Adil Shah on the other used this distraction to cross the Krishna and attack the main Hindu divisions.

Ramaraya, though thoroughly surprised, rapidly responded. Despite his advanced age (in the 70s) he decided to personally lead the Hindu armies and took to the field in the center. He was faced by Nizam Shah’s division. Ramaraya’s first brother Tirumala hurriedly returned to form the left wing of the Hindu army that was countered by Adil Shah and traitorous Hindus under the Maharatta chief Raja Ghorpade. His second brother Venkatadri formed the Hindu right wing that was opposed by Qutb Shah and Barid Shah, strengthened by Nizam Shah’s auxiliaries as the battle progressed. On 23rd Jan 1565 the enormous armies clashed on the plains near the villages of Rakshasi and Tangadi. Several reports claimed that over a million men were involved in this historic clash. Venkatadri struck early and within the first two hours the Hindu right wing’s heavy guns fired constantly on the ranks of Barid Shah. As the ranks were softened the Hindu infantry under Venkatadri plowed through the divisions of Barid Shah annihilating them. The assault was so vigorous that it looked like a Hindu victory was imminent. Qutb Shah too was in retreat, when Nizam Shah sent his forces to shore up the ranks of the Sultans. Nizam Shah himself was then pressed hard by the heavy cannonade from Ramaraya’s division and was facing a Hindu infantry thrust with Ramaraya at the helm. At this point the Sultans signaled to the Moslem officers in the Vijayanagaran army to launch a subversive attack. Suddenly Ramaraya found his rear surprised by the two Moslem divisions in his ranks turning against him. About 140,000 Moslem troops had opened a vigorous rear attack on the Hindus and captured several artillery positions. Several cannon shells landed near Ramaraya’s elephant and he fell from it as his mount was struck by a cannon shard. Ramaraya tried to recover but Nizam Shah made a dash to seize him.

He was dragged to the Moslem camp and the Sultan asked him to acknowledge Allah as the only god. Ramaraya instead cried “Narayana Krishna Bhagavanta”, and Nizam Shah slit the Hindu king's throat and declared himself a Ghazi in Jihad. Ramaraya's severed head was then fixed to a pole and waved before the Hindu troops. The Hindus panicked at the death of their commander and chaos broke out in their midst. Venkatadri was also killed as the Qutb, Nizam and Barid put all their forces together and launched a concerted punch. Tirumala tried to stiffen the center but at that point the whole division of Adil Shah that was waiting all the while made the final assault on the rear of Tirumala’s division. The Vijayanagar artillery had by then been exhausted and was blasted by the Adil Shah’s artillery and the Hindus faced a rout. Several 100,000s of troops were slain.

Tirumala seeing the total rout fled to Vijayanagara and taking up the treasury on 1500 elephants fled south towards Penukonda. Those who could flee the city survived, the rest became victims of the Islamic Jihad. The Moslems swooped down upon the city and beheaded several tens of thousands of the male inhabitants as they could find (“every one became a ghazi by killing a Kaffr”). The young women were captured for the harems and the rest were herded into groups and burnt alive. Miscellaneous dacoits, Maharatta Hindu brigands under Raja Ghorpade Bahadur, and the Maharashtrian Brahmin thief, Murari Rao, who got wind of the news also arrived with their henchmen and looted the grand city. The looting is supposed to have gone on for six months, after which the sultans fired the city. The heat from the burning of the city is supposed to have been so intense that it left cracks in the granite hills on its periphery. Ramaraya's skull was taken by Nizam Shah to Ahmednagar and was fitted to the spout of a drain that opened out of the fort. This grotesque gargoyle bearing the fallen Hindu king's skull was seen for several years after the event. Thus the first great Hindu counter-offensive against the ravages of Islam and Christianity in the South ended. However, it did not mean the end of the Hindu resistance. We shall in the subsequent part how the complete Islamization of south India was prevented by the successors of Ramaraya in a prolonged struggle over the next 100 years, when the baton of the Hindu revival was taken over by the Maharattas under Shivaji.

<b> Sources and bibliography:</b>
A history of South India (4th edition) KAN Sastri.
Firishta (Translated by J. Briggs in "History of the rise of the rise of Mohammedan power in India, Vol II)
The early Muslim expansion in South India. Venkataraman Ayya
Further sources of Vijayanagar History. KAN Sastri and Venkataraman Ayya
A forgotten empire. R. Sewell
Achyuta Raya Abhyudaya. Rajanatha Dindima.
Collected papers on Vijayanagara.
The character and significance of the Empire of Vijayanagara in Indian history. Krishnaswami Aiyangar.
The battle of Talikota--before and after K.K. Basu

Krishnaswami Aiyangar's monumental critical edition/translation notes of native sources (in collected sources volume; 81-7305-257-3)
Ramarajiyamu of Venkayya
Krishna Raya Vijayam by Kumara Dhurjati
Ahobilam inscription of Sriranga-I (After the restoration)

[Guest]

Another interesting article on Ramaraya from Sulekha..

I, Ramaraya

[Guest]

Also promoted to the front page.. <!--emo&:rock--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rock.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='rock.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

Awesome article Hauma, really brings out the horrors of that fateful day, makes you think of many what if's that have no place now. I read that Tirumala returned and tried to repopulate the city?

Eagerly awaiting the next chapter but doing some reading on links, i am travelling to India after long while and will definetly be visiting Vijayanagar and hope to take a bunch of photographs and upload to the site. Perhaps we can add a few to the above to see how much destruction took place and what has actually survived.
Would be nice to have a India Forum photo gallery of the place and some history captions below each image. An idea?

Some further links :

<img src='http://www215.pair.com/sacoins/images/maps/deccan_16thc.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Robert Swell A FORGOTTEN EMPIRE: VIJAYANAGAR

VIJAYANAGARA, THE FORGOTTEN EMPIRE

[acharya]

Thus the period at which our history opens, about the year 1330, found the whole of Northern India down to the Vindhya mountains firmly under Moslem rule, while the followers of that faith had overrun the Dakhan and were threatening the south with the same fate. South of the Krishna the whole country was still under Hindu domination, but the supremacy of the old dynasties was shaken to its base by the rapidly advancing terror from the north. With the accession in 1325 of Muhammad Taghlaq of Delhi things became worse still. Marvellous stories of his extraordinary proceedings circulated amongst the inhabitants of the Peninsula, and there seemed to be no bound to his intolerance, ambition, and ferocity.

Everything, therefore, seemed to be leading up to but one inevitable end -- the ruin and devastation of the Hindu provinces; the annihilation of their old royal houses, the destruction of their religion, their temples, their cities. All that the dwellers in the south held most dear seemed tottering to its fall.

Suddenly, about the year 1344 A.D., there was a check to this wave of foreign invasion -- a stop -- a halt -- then a solid wall of opposition; and for 250 years Southern India was saved.

The check was caused by a combination of small Hindu states -- two of them already defeated, Warangal and Dvarasamudra -- defeated, and therefore in all probability not over-confident; the third, the tiny principality of Anegundi. The solid wall consisted of Anegundi grown into the great empire of the Vijayanagar. To the kings of this house all the nations of the south submitted.

[Guest]

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<!--QuoteBegin-Hauma Hamiddha+-->QUOTE(Hauma Hamiddha)<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>The Post-Talikota struggle.</b>
After the fall of Vijayanagar, some historians believe that Tirumala, the brother of Ramaraya made an attempt to revive the city but failed. It is believed that there was a conflict between him and his nephew Pedda Tirumala over the control of the city and hence he decided to abandon it. With the Vijayanagar army in shambles, Ramaraya’s nepotism at the expense of traditional Hindu civil officers left the whole kingdom in a state of chaos. Moslem horsemen roved over the countryside extorting money and goods from the people. There was also a profusion of robberies and plundering operations by gangs of warlords in the Telugu country. In the Tamil country Nayakas of Madurai, Tanjavur and Gingee established independent kingdoms, which to a great extant restored local stability in these regions. It took Tirumala a whole six years to restore civil administration and rebuild an army. He attacked Portuguese horse traders and seized horses from them to raise a cavalry. He made Penukonda his capital and started heavily fortifying it to prepare for a major defensive war.

Imad Shah of Berar suffered massively and his kingdom soon ended within a few years of Talikota. Barid Shah of Bidar, founded by the Turk Qasim Barid from Azerbaijan, and Nizam Shah of Ahmednagar were also considerably weakened. Adil Shah, who had recovered from the Talikota war, marched southwards again in 1567 to continue the conquest of the Vijayanagaran kingdom. Pedda Tirumala entered into negotiations with the Sultan and directed the invader against his uncle Tirumala, whom he feared. But the Sultan in brushed him aside and took Vijayanagar and then marched on Penukonda. Tirumala dispatched his commander Savaram Chennappa Nayaka to repulse the Sultan. The Nayaka inflicted a defeat on the Moslem forces through a surprise sally when the Sultan was expecting a defensive reaction from the fort of Penukonda. Tirumala made Chennappa commander of the Vijayanagar army and resorted to diplomacy to buy some time for himself. Tirumala thought that his negotiations would result in Nizam Shah and Qutb Shah forming a common cause against Adil Shah. But instead the Moslems secretly made a pact with each other and launched a Jihad on the Hindus in 1568. A twin Moslem army attacked the Vijayanagarans at Adoni and Penugonda. Hard pressed in Adoni the Hindu armies capitulated but Tirumala and Chennappa put up a strong resistance at Penukonda and repulsed the Moslem forces from the Telugu country. Tirumala then initiated negotiations with the Nayakas of Gingee, Tanjavur and Madurai and unified them to his cause of the defense of the South against the Turushkas. He appointed his 3 sons, Shriranga, Rama and Venkatapati as viceroys at Penukonda, Shrirangapattanam and Chandragiri to respectively administer the Telugu, Kannada and Tamil divisions of the kingdom. He then strengthened his army to deter any further Moslem attacks and finally ascended the throne with the title: “Reviver of the decadent Karnata empire”. In 1572, he felt he was too old to rule and retired to a religious life of Vishnubhakti.

For a while the Sultans watched, vary of the revived Southern army of the Hindus. But by 1576 Adil Shah had vastly strengthened his army and fortified Adoni as a base to launch a “non-stop war” on the Vijayanagarans. A huge Mohammedan army suddenly set forth from Adoni to attack Penukonda from different directions. The capital and treasury lay in great peril, so Shriranga retreated with the treasury to Chandragiri and from there established a supply line for Chennappa Nayaka to defend Penukonda. One of the generals in the Moslem army was a Rigvedi Maharashtrian Brahmin, Yamaji Rao. Chennappa sent a message to him appeal to his duty to the Dharma against the Mlecchas and Turushkas. Yamaji Rao accepted the message and joined the Vijayanagar side with the Hindu troops in the Shah’s army and critical intelligence. Chennappa immediately struck with great vigor. On December 21st 1576, the holy solisticial day for the Hindus, Chennappa advanced heavy guns against the Moslem flanks and opened an intense simultaneous bombardment from the Penukonda ledges and the flanks. Adil Shah’s army broke up very rapidly and retreated in disarray. Shriranga sent reinforcements to tear apart the disarrayed Moslem ranks and they retreated. In the mean time Shriranga negotiated peace with Qutb Shah who did not send any reinforcements to Adil Shah allowing the Vijayanagarans to completely evict him. However, Qutb Shah soon appointed Murari Rao, the Brahmin brigand, as his commander-in-chief, and he began strengthening the Golconda army. In 1579 Murari Rao launched a sudden plundering operation and the head of a large Moslem army. His hordes began systematically ravaging the territory south of the Krishna with great ferocity. In late 1579, he appeared near the great Nrisimha temple at Ahobilam, which had been enormously endowed by several generations since the Reddis and the Vijayanagarans. Along with his Moslem troops he ransacked the temple and laid waste to it. He uprooted an ancient ruby-studded pure gold idol of Vishnu and sent it to the Sultan as gift.

Shriranga, hurried to parry the attack and defeated Murari Rao and his Golconda raiders. Finally, by 1580, he turned the tide and started chasing the Golconda army northwards recovering the territory they had seized. In the process Murari Rao was captured but his life spared because of this brahminical origins. Ibrahim Qutb Shah was furious and decided to settle the matters himself and invaded Kondavidu with the rest of his army and took the fort. Then he launched a massive raid on Udayagiri and slaughtered Hindus in the Jihad. But Shriranga kept the fight on and repulsed the Moslem army from Udayagiri after an initial retreat. Unfazed Qutb Shah struck at Vinukonda and seized the fort. Shriranga along Chennappa rushed to counter the attack. After much fierce fighting the Moslem army was forced to retreat. The Hindus stormed the fort of Vinukonda after intense fighting. Then Chennappa stormed Kondavidu and died fighting even as he forced the Islamic army to retreat. But Shriranga got into an intercine conflict with his brothers, who refused to cooperate in the national struggle. Qutb Shah took advantage of this and in late 1580 captured Kondavidu firmly and died in Golconda shortly after that. His son, Muhammad Quli became Qutb Shah thereafter. In 1585 Shriranga died without issues and his brother Venkatapati became the Raja. Venkata was faced with an aggressive Jihad launched by the new Qutb Shah. The Qutb invaded Kurnool in Andra and seized the territory shortly after Venkata came to power. The he ravaged Cuddapah and having completely laid waste to it, marched on Anantapur burning and plundering the district. Next a large Moslem army of the under the Qutb’s personal command besieged Penukonda. Another Moslem division under the fierce Turk Rustam Khan ravaged Gandikota and Gutti and annexed them. Venkata realized the deep crisis that had dawned on the Hindus and decided to resort to stratagem. He sent a delegation to the Shah stating that he was suing peace and accepting him as the overlord of the conquered territory. The Shah thought the Hindu was brought to his knees and pleased with his conquests decided to consolidate them rather than stand a long siege before Penukonda. Venkata, moved very rapidly to strengthen Penukonda to withstand a long siege and declared war on the Moslems. The Sultan hurried back to renew the siege. The Venkata waited till just before monsoon and launched a strong artillery barrage on the Moslem army. The Moslems began to retreat and the monsoons began swelling the Krishna river and cut off their escape route. The Hindus fell upon the Moslem army and soundly trashed it. Qutb somehow escaped the attack and retreated to Kondavidu. Then Venkata attacked the Moslem garrison at Gutti and destroyed it to re-conquer the fort. Then from Kondavidu a large Moslem force advanced to provide relief to the garrison at Gandikota. But the Venkata intercepted the army, destroyed it and stormed Gandikota to liberate the territory that was earlier taken by Qutb Shah. Qutb Shah decided to put an end to the Hindu resistance for good and sent his ace general Rustam Khan with Moslem army of around 100000 men to smash Venkata. Venkatapati quickly prepared for their charge and prepared an ambush for them between Gandikota and the Penner River. Rustam Khan believed that the Hindus were not reacting and fell into the Vijayanagaran ambush in mid 1588. The Hindus opened artillery fire and after having softened the Moslem ranks fell upon them with their infantry and cavalry divisions. A carnage followed, Rustam Khan’s head was cut off, and over 50,000 Moslem troops were exterminated in the battle of Penner. It was great win for the Hindus and the Sultan’s men were on the retreat everywhere. Venkata followed this up with a strike on Udayagiri and liberated it from the stranglehold of the Moslem troops. After this the Vijayanagar recovered the territory lost to the Qutb Shahs and repulsed them beyond the Krishna. Thus, till the end of Venkata’s rule the Moslem advance was pushed beyond the Krishna. For another 28 years Venkatapati ruled wisely and did much to restore the rest of South India that was under his control to great prosperity.

However, the Hindu chiefs remained much disunited and after his death there was a long period of internal instability. But the measure of Venkata had kept out Moslems till Adil Shah recovered and sent Abdul Wahabi to savagely attack Kurnool. But the Vijayanagar general Gopalaraja defeated and repulsed this attack in 1620. Then another Adil Shahi general Randhula Khan finally overcame the Hindu resistance, and with help from some Hindu traitors took Bangalore in 1641. In 1645 the Mogol Emperor of Delhi instructed the Sultans of the Deccan to wage a Jihad of extermination on the Kaffrs of Hind in the south and make the whole territory Moslem. Mustafa Khan led this Jihad. The last Hindu ruler of Vijayanagara Shriranga III was too weak to do much and was driven into exile. The Brahmins met at Tirupati to use to wealth from temple donations for organizing a national defense against the Moslems. The women too donated their jewels for this national movement. They called upon the Nayaks to fight for the Dharma and inflicted a defeat on Mustafa Khan. But Moslem powers combined their forces and pressed on again with the Jihad with Sardar Mir Jumla strengthening Mustafa Khan’s assault. The Hindus put up their last fight in very fiercely fought battle at Virincipuram. While they suffered heavy losses in the engagement, Moslems too suffered heavy losses and could not pursue their conquests immediately. However, even as Shriranga III was vanishing into oblivion in 1649, a new Hindu power that was to conquer the south had emerged in the form of the king of the Maharattas.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->founded by the Turk Qasim Barid from <b>Azerbaijan</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

One day we should repay the debt..

[Guest]

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<!--QuoteBegin-Hauma Hamiddha+-->QUOTE(Hauma Hamiddha)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Map for major events described in Part 1(Reign of Ramaraya...)

1) Combined Moslem offensive towards Talikota.
2) Vijayanagaran counter-offensives against Christian terrorists and Protuguese
3) Vijayanagaran counter-offensives Moslems
4) Vijayanagaran southern campaign and destruction rebels and Christian invaders.
5) The final retreat to Penukonda after Talikota
Others: Qutb Shahi assault on Kondavidu.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

Hi HH

Just a clarification .
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In a manner similar to the modern Indian state, he went against the age-old policy of the Vijayanagara state in recruiting Moslem soldiers indiscriminately in his army<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Are you averse to the recruiting of muslims in the Indian Army ?
If so , what would be your postion when it comes to honoring the dead of the army , which contains a few muslim names ?

TIA

[G.Subramaniam]

Visit http://www.ambedkar.org/pakistan
Wherein Dr.Ambedkar argues that an army 36% muslim is dangerous
In many speeches, 1940-1947, he supported partition to get rid of muslims in army

Gen.Cariappa called for banning muslims in Army

Singapore bans muslims from high levels in army since it does not trust their loyalty

Notable instances of muslim treason in army besides Talikota
1. Sindh 712, Arabs in Dahirs army mutiny
2. 1320, Madurai, Muslims in Pandya Army mutiny on approach of Malik Kafur
3. 1330, muslims in Kashmir army stage a coup and islamise kashmir by forced conversion
4. 1790, Muslims in Kerala Zamorins army mutiny on approach of Tipu SUltan
5. 1947, muslims in Kashmir Maharajas army mutiny leading to loss of POK
6. 1948, muslims in Indian army in kashmir mutiny leading to loss of Skardu
7. 1947, muslims in Kashmir Maharaja's army mutiny in Gilgit, leading to loss of Gilgit
8. 1948, During liberation of Hyderabad, 700 muslims in Indian army mutiny
9. 1955, Indian muslim general defects to Pakistan
10. 1989, thousands of kashmiri muslim cops defect

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Outside India
1. In 1941-42, lakhs of Soviet and Yugoslav army muslim mutiny to join Nazis
2. 1980, thousands of Soviet muslims mutiny in Afghanistan
3. Dozens of US army muslims mutiny in Iraq

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Dead Indian army muslims must be honored

[Hauma Hamiddha]

I have nothing much to add to what Subramanian states and essentially agree with what he says. I am only not sure how you got the statistic that dozens of US Islamic soldiers revolted in Iraq. I believe the official number is something like 6.

[G.Subramaniam]

Dozens of muslims in US army reserve have refused to fight against fellow muslims
( even in 1991 kuwait war )
In addition, US muslim chaplains in the military have been caught for treason

I also forgot to add
In WW1, several Indian muslim regiments mutinied and refused to fight against Turkey
During WW1, much of west Punjab ( Pakistan ) was in mutiny in favor of Turkey

In the British army,
the british deliberately made sure that there were no 100% muslim regiments

Further, the british kept 5 Gurkha regiments as an anti-muslim force
to crush potential muslim mutineers ( source Omar Khalidi )

G.S

[Guest]

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/fd452cf8-8ccb-11d...000e2511c8.html

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->If one wants to ponder whether death is an occasion for mourning or a chance to celebrate a life, the 17th century tomb of Ibrahim Adil Shah II is a good place for such meditations. The complex looks more a pleasure palace than a mausoleum, with two exuberant domes (the second building is a prayer hall) and such an abundance of ornate minarets that it has something of the circus tent about it. Bijapur was known for its religious tolerance and the tendency of its rulers to revere both Hinduism and Islam. This is the stone embodiment of the ideal; an attempt to cram all of India’s diverse medieval traditions into one building that somehow works spectacularly.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[ramana]

Any pointers as to the founding of Bangalore and the rise of the Wodeyars under the shadow of the Rayas? I note that a mention is made of Bangalore in 1641 in the post Talikota account.