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Misc & "Social Engneering" topics
#1
I personally feel that using Kulhars for drinking or eating anything is not at all Hygienic Practice. They would fast absorb atmospheric moisture and hence microbes; which in turn could set of a bout of dysentery or gastroenteritis to those who use them for any human consumption. As the “consciousness on hygiene of our lower classes is abysmally low, disposable plastic cups (which are not biodegradable) or even better paper cups (which are easily biodegradable) should be continued in Indian Railways as well as everywhere.

On this Maneka Gandhi appears to have a few valid points, including some environmental concerns, et al.

Clay-Pot Dictator!

Can these concerns be brought to the notice of the Indian Railway Authorities if not to that of our LallooooBhai!
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#2
A water purifier company (Puritas?) some years ago had an ad comparing the hygenie issues of using a water purifier versus the grandma's good old clay '<i>matka</i>'

prmadhura: The outlook article is for subscribers only.
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#3
for centuries Indian villages were using such pots.Dont think they are un-hygenic.Atleast i dont feel so having drunk many a times in such pots i did not find any nasty germ infection
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#4
prmathura: I got thru the registeration process to read the article by menka gandhi...interesting to read the views as I have always liked the idea of Lalooji (..or whoever).

I do not think that Kulhar or any kind of cley pots could be un-hygenic

Various types of cley pots have been used by Indians for ages

In my view:

The Chai in Kulhar is a lot tastier than plastic
The curd in clay pot is better made
The cley pot kulfi... yammy!
Water from matka/surahi is a lot refreshing.

Even if un-hygenic I would want it to continue..Bravo Laloo for starting it <!--emo&:thumbsup--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbup.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='thumbup.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Viren : this is the same article that you have posted in one of the Laloo thred
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#5
<!--QuoteBegin-Ashish+Jul 12 2004, 08:05 AM-->QUOTE(Ashish @ Jul 12 2004, 08:05 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> Viren : this is the same article that you have posted in one of the Laloo thred <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes
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#6
Yes Friends,

I accept that clay-pots, etc. are Hygienic, only if they are properly washed / cleaned. Maneka Gandhi has a very valid point on this (this is the first time I ever agreed with her on anything). This kulhar business of Indian Railways is going to create major environmental havoc, in India. While I concur with her on this, my concern is about the low-levels of awareness among the tea-supply boys on cleanliness, which would result in widespread stomach infections.

It's a scientific fact that all micro-porous surfaces attract atmospheric moisture and hence soon the microbes. Just because our ancestral-well gives us salty water, shouldn't prevent us from seeking better alternative.
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#7
I feel it is step in good direction, though not done properly and only to gain publicity.

There is always room for improvement and the manufacturing process can be improved. However, there is no reason why it should not replace the plastic/themocol stuff which are making havoc on our enviornment. Paper is little better but very difficult to hold hot chai in it.

Without saying that Kulhad is perfect, IMO Kulhad should always be available as one of the options, which I would prefer from the taste aspect (taking a bit of hygiene risk <!--emo&Smile--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) .

There are good no. of research bodies in India who can undertake research on the hygiene aspect and may find ways to make it more hygienic.

Things start getting better when you use them..who would do research on 'kulhad which no-one uses on earth"..atleast not in my India.

"Incidentally, no one has done a study yet to see how safe a kulhad is, from a health point of view, when a liquid is poured into it. The Government should undertake a study of this nature,’’ said Dr. Chakravorthy. ceramic engineer at CGCRI...see thaughts like these have started to come to public light as in this article of Indian Express.

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story....t_id=50438
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#8
<b>The soup is back in the china</b>
This column a few weeks ago noted how after Railway Minister Lalu Prasad Yadav's edict, even chicken soup was being served in kulhads (earthern cups) to MPs and others in the Central Hall of Parliament and how some members suspected that they were being recycled (read: washed and reused).

One is happy to report that though kulhads are still very much in use for drinking water in the Indian Railway-run canteen that services the Parliament House complex, including Central Hall, they have reverted to china cups to serve chicken and other soups.

But the doubts about the reuse of the kulhads persist because the users cannot break them as that would result in littering the entire complex with pieces of mudcake.

<b>As per current practice, a bearer collects the used cups in a bucket and carries them back to the canteen. What happens to them there is anyone's guess. But one thing is for sure: the kulhads offered to patrons of the canteen do not in the least have that earthy, freshly baked aroma</b>. <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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#9
He He

I saw people collecting uncrushed plastic,crushables being collected in sacks.Obviously they would end up where you think they will end up <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Not really a complaint <!--emo&Smile--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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#10
Question:

In the archeological surveys when archeologists dig places, do you know what things can be found ?

Answer: Plenty of remains of Clay utinsels, mud pots etc...


So this talk about kulhars being bio degradable is a BS to fool average common people.

Infact it harms environment more than anything. Imagine to serve billion people nation, how many hills one may have to dig & destroy. On top of this how will it be recycled? Just throw away in the streets ? Kulhars can not come without destroying our serene nature. It fastens the destruction of nature. And to top that they are neither as bio degradable as the common man can think.

Lalloo is fooling silly villagers and common man with his simplistic approach. He just wants to make $$ that's all.

Instead of introducing kulhars, he should have concentrated on finding the right way for recycling the existing plastic cups.

In democracy people should have choices. 'Kulhar only' is dictatorship. Down with Lalu <!--emo&:thumbdown--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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#11
Note: I'm not sure where exactly this thread fits in. The moderators can change the location if they feel it does not belong to this sub-forum.

Keywords 1: Patent, Copyright, "Intellectual Property".
Keywords 2: Trademark, Contract, License.

Let me confess that I have never quite been able to fully grasp the notion of "intellectual property" as a concept. So I am less somewhat less than sympathetic to the ideas of patents and copyrights. Because these notions are relevant to Indian society via its interaction with multinational companies and the WTO, I hope that they can be discussed in this forum - even without specific reference to India.

Among other things, I would like to trace the ideas of patents and copyrights to find out how they gained acceptance among the intelligentsia.

My current interest in this topic started out with the idea of "Free Software". (Free as in "Freedom", or Free as in "Free Sex" :-) or Free as a verb in "Free your Mind"). A related idea is "Open Source Software". For some background on these:-
http://www.fsf.org/
http://fsf.org.in/
http://www.opensource.org/

I am also starting to read the following books both by Vandana Shiva.:
Biopiracy - The plunder of nature and knowledge.
Protect or Plunder? - Understanding Intellectual Property Rights.

Among the issues I would like to discuss are:
<b>1)</b> Moral/Social Justifications offered for patents:
  • a)Intellectual "property". - analogy between "intellectual property" and "physical property".
  • b)"Product" of intellect (commodity). ? analogy between"produce of land" and "product of intellect".
  • c)Social Engineering 1: "Encourages innovation and creativity" argument.
  • d)Social Engineering 2: "Encourages innovation and creativity" which can then be made public and used for the "public good".
  • e)Concept arising from a specific type of contract (ie: a license). - The most human view and the only justifiable one in my opinion.
<b>2)</b> Clarification of concept of physical property. History. How did the concept of Physical property become entrenched.

<b>3)</b> Does acceptance of concept of physical property lead to concept of intellectual property?

<b>4)</b> Is it really necessary to extend the logic of physical property to "intellectual property" or is there an alternative.

<b>5)</b> Is it really possible define area/scope of Patent?

<b>6)</b> The role of enforceability in growth of property/patents. Patents and MNC's.

<b>7)</b> If the notion of "intellectual property" is valid, should there be an "intellectual property tax", just like there are justifiable "property taxes".

<b>8)</b> Why are Ideas and Concepts excluded from the definition of "Intellectual Property"?

<b>9)</b> In what ways do Patents and Property restrict freedom of action?

<b>10)</b> Scope and effect of India's international agreements on the freedom to innovate and create.

<b>11)</b> Currently most property is already "owned". On the other hand, most intellectual areas are not "owned". So how does one go from non-ownership to ownership. What was the mechanism, historically, for this transformation in the case of physical property.

These are just the starting points for what I hope will be an intensive and extensive discussion. I'm sure there are many on this forum who are interested in these topics. I hope Calvin emerges from the deep sea bed to contribute.

With extreme prejudice,
Sandeep.
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#12
<b>Before khullar chai, start your day on train with neem datum</b>
Pioneer News Service/ New Delhi

Railway Minister Lalu Prasad Yadav is now ready to introduce Neem datuns in trains including premiere expresses like Rajdhani and Shatabdhi.

Indicating to make available the age-old Indian brand of tooth cleaners inside trains and on sale at Railway stations nationwide, Mr Yadav said on Sunday that neem datuns would soon be a part of Indian Railways' toiletries.

Mr Yadav's decision is in line with his Budget announcements earlier this year where he had announced the introduction of neem datuns and khullars for serving hot beverages inside trains and on rail platforms.
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#13
<b>TOOTHPASTE, NEEM STICKS TO BE MADE AVAILABLE IN TRAINS</b>

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Business India - New Delhi, Sep 26 : <b>Rail passengers will now be able to purchase basic toiletries and consumer items like soap, powder, toothpaste, neem sticks, shampoo and medicines in trains as part of efforts to make travel more comfortable.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Cheers
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#14
In place of soap they will start selling "Rakh" in Khullar with neem as stick to mix it well. <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway, Neem is good for teeth.
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#15
Thank lord for little mercies...I wanted 'lathi' (Home Ministry) not rail: Lalu
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#16
what makes a country poor ?

what do you think the main reason for this ?

can you relate if i will say tropical climate is the main factor why there are 3rd world countries ? evolution for 2000 years over tropical climate, what will be the effects of this ?

why a country colonized ? why other countries are more powerful than others . is climate not related to these things since Tropical Climate was already there ever since the world begun ? didnt it created an undesirable mental evolution thats disables tropical countries to invent high-tech machines and gadgets or even make their own weapons and medicine ?

what do you think of this ?
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#17
<!--QuoteBegin-johnpaul+Feb 10 2005, 01:47 PM-->QUOTE(johnpaul @ Feb 10 2005, 01:47 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> can you relate if i will say tropical climate is the main factor why there are 3rd world countries ?  evolution for 2000 years over tropical climate, what will be the effects of this ?
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A country is poor because it lacks resources. This is the simplest answer. A country is materially poor it if it is depleted of gold and minerals, it is economically poor it if is depleted of it's human resources. It is spiritually poor it if is depleted of it's spiritual fountainheads and ideas. etc.

Thus the reason a country is poor is 1) They cannot produce resources, or 2) They cannot retain or use the resources they have.

Coming to tropical countries. These are the countries that are most fertile. They are the countries where ppl need not struggle much to produce food. Thus over time, the hunter /gatherers have become agriculturalists. Civilization is possible only in these climates.

The civilizations (or even religions) that were born in a desert - like Saudia, or in the cold climates like Vikings, had to plunder and pillage to fill their coffers. The non-tropical countries are predators who hunt, while tropical countries are by far more peaceful. They are real reason the non-tropical countries can now boast of any richness.

If you think deeper into this topic, you will also see that India has always had the know-how and the capability of an Ideal society and a healthy society. What has made them 'poor' now is the predators around them, and not their own intrinsic qualities.
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#18
<b><span style='color:red'>RICH LEADERS</span></b>
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#19
<!--QuoteBegin-johnpaul+Feb 10 2005, 04:17 AM-->QUOTE(johnpaul @ Feb 10 2005, 04:17 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> what makes a country poor ?

what do you think the main reason for this ?
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This site has a interesting power point on this issue..
Link to a PPS file
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#20
Nonsense, People make wild correlations and assumptions. In the 19th century, people used to say that the White race is superior because they are all rich and powerful, and nonwhites were all poor. After Japan came in the picture, some of that rhetoric came down.

Why was Russia a 3rd world country for so long ?
Why are the colder parts of China, North Korea all 3rd world ?
Why are Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong 1st world countries (all warm tropical)?
Australia get's fairly hot also.

What about the additional heat and energy consumption required for survival in colder climates ?

After India Industrializes, this theory will disapper, as did the inherent superiority of the white race (if they are so superior, why only in the last 200 years have they amounted to anything ?) as fat boy Churchill used to mouth off.

Some of the wealthiest parts of America are California, Texas, Florida, Hawaii etc.
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