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Gotra and Pravara

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Gotra and Pravara
#81
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Mudy aren't they Khatri?

From what I know all the 10 Sikh Gurus come from the Sodhis and the Bedis and they were all Khatri.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are some Khatri, but majority are jat / Jatt

This google search Link confirms plus Matrimonial ads solidify. <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->



Dhose, Padhe or Pande are those who normally come for bhoj in North India.
  Reply
#82
Acharya Hazari Prasad Dwivedi mentions a very interesting thing in the preface of one of his books published around 1930. Translation mine.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Hindus naturally respect Brahmins.  Even more than them, Sannyasins and Yogis (Even if non-Brahmin) are objects of reverance.  However Hindu soceity treats very harshly ASram-BhraSTa (befallen from chosen Ashram) Sannyasins and Yogis.  If a Sannyasin re-enters Grihastha Ashram, then his heir and children are treated as outcastes.  In every corner of Bharatvarsha, there are jatis that constitute such be-fallen Sannyasins and their offshoots.  In Northern India while you can find Gosain, Vairagi, Atit, Sadhu, Jogi, Fakir jatis; South India has Aandi, Dasari, Panivasan jatis. 

A Sannyasin is poojya for a Hindu, only as long as he is in Sannyasashram.  But if he abandons it to set an abode in Grihasthashram, he is befallen in the eyes of Hindus.  So such jatis, that are made by befallen Yogis and Sannyasis, are treted in the lowest respect.  Therefore, there is great difference between a Yogi of Sadhana, and a yogi of grihastha ashram just because of his jati.  Once upon a time, these Jatis were pushed out of varNa-ASram vyavasthA, but later on they were assimilated back into Hindu fold, as it appears. 

Many of these jatis still follow the customs more in tune with Sannyasis than Grihasthas.  In jogis of Bengal, a deadbody is not given cremation but 'Samadhi' (buried in a certain yogasan posture).  A friend of mine from Tripra, informs me that Tripura jogi jatis first cremate and then bury the remains.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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#83
Further from the same book:

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->As it appears, their lives were not in accordance to Pauranik Dharma.  Earlier, the jogini I had mentioned from 'Goraksha Vijayam' written in samvat 1324, calls herself as Brahmin Jogini and is non-vegetarian. 

So this way as I describe, they had already founded a separate jati, which was different from the rest of Hindu jatis, before the arrival of Islam in the eastern India.  They did not follow Varnashram, they strongly opposed untouchability, did not beleive in Tridev, or incarnations, and in fact their outer rituals were more similar to Muslims than Hindus.

So, with muslims they found more "Atma-Sadharmya" (co-religious-identity) and a part of their jatis started to convert, and continues to date.  Only recently as we notice, this trend has stopped, by the remaining Hindu jogis taking to organized efforts of identifying with Hindu tradition, and instilling a feeling of jati-gaurav.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->This should not be surprising that, of all the medieval scriptures we find which throw light about the life and ideas of Nath-sampraday and Yogis, majority are written by muslims!  Ali Raja's 'Gyan Sagar', Syed Multan's 'Gyan Pradeep' and 'Gyan Chauntisa', Mohammed Sharif's 'Sur Kandil', Murshid's 'Barahmasya' and 'Yog Kalandar' and 'Satya Gyan Pradeep'...at least I have not come across such scriptures written by Hindu Jogis of middle period. 

So I have a firm opinion, all these poets, and even beyond them, many others were born to such jatis of Nath-panthis which were going through gradual, partial, and reluctant conversion to Islam.  They had if marginally converted, they had not left the traditions from their Jati, at least just as then. Kabir, Dadu, Rajjab, Kutuban, Jayasi, Noor Muhammad, Fajilshah, etc and other bhakt-sant Hindi/Bengali poets should be seen and read in that light.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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#84
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>This post has been edited due to obscene language and slurs. If you want to continue posting desist from such usage.</span>
-Moderators
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#85
HH-ji you have enlightened us in so many ways, that I think samidha and jalam in our hands are very much in order, as someone suggested before. <!--emo&Smile--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

but one more question.

<img src='http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/3515/2008846780100818794S425x425Q85.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

I was trying to look up about Sandilya gotra in Sri Skanda Purana. Above image is from Bramhakhandam, dharmaranyam, gyAti-bheda-gotra-devi-varNanam -adhyayam 39, sthanam 49, shloka 257-260.

It lists 5 pravar R^shi-s of Sandilya gotra:
bhArgava,
chyAvana,
apnavAna,
aurvava,
jAmadagnya.

But in post 13, the two variants mentioned of (unrelated?) Sandilya streams dont tally with any of these... <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Sandilya 1) Kasyapa,Aavatsaara,Daivala
Sandilya 2) Kasyapa,Aavatsaara,Sandilya

besides, in one other post, these above five are listed under Vatsasa gotram.

1. Which (or both?) is correct?
2. Based upon your studies, do you find all gotra-pravara descriptions in different sources tally? Or do they some time conflict?
3. above mentions yakshiNi as devi for Sandilya gotra(s)?
4. heavy body, large belly, lengthy ears, long arms.... ? (Likewise this text is a most detailed chapter about various gotras and lakshaNa-s of their respective gaNa.)

where did I go wrong?
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#86
Bodhi-ji to give a quick answer- The first list is wrong. None of the authoritative sources list shANDilya as a bhArgava. He is a kAshyapa of the Avatsara lineage. If one is in doubt one has to consult the vedic sources on this matter- they supersede purANas on this matter. The lists in the kalpa sUtra-s were all collected together into a text called gotra-pravara-manjari and another called gotra nibandha. These lists are unanimous in declaring shANDilya-s as kAshyapa-s. This is also confirmed by whatever inscriptions of shANDilya I have located to date. Likewise, the bhR^igu vaMsha-s do not give any shANDilya pravara. The list in the matsya-purANa is more accurate. I believe these mistakes in the purANa-s come from scribal errors or errors of sUta-s unfamiliar with the brahminical gotra system.

I am yet to complete reading you translation on the setu tIrtha- sorry.
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#87
<!--QuoteBegin-Hauma Hamiddha+Jun 21 2007, 09:39 PM-->QUOTE(Hauma Hamiddha @ Jun 21 2007, 09:39 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->I am yet to complete reading you translation on the setu tIrtha- sorry.
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<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Hauma Hamiddhaji, its immediate objective is met, so no hurry at all, please take your time.

Thanks for the guidance.
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#88
I do:

Abhivadaye vashista maitra varuna koundinya traya risheya pravaranvita:
Koundinya Gotra Apasthambha sutra yajushakha adhyay ..

How far back my traits go?
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#89
HH, my gotra is kutsa and the pravara is

harita ambareesha youvanashva gomadhwa kutsa pancharisheya.

I couldn't find the pravara anywhere. Do you have more info on it?

Thanks!
  Reply
#90
Hello
I wonder if anyone can help me with a query.
I am a Saraswat Brahmin who originates from Himachal Pradesh.
My gotra is Gautama and i have seen a few times in matrimonials the word "Jalpot" next to this gotra. I also see that in the earlier post, listing punjabi Brahmin saraswat names, it is listed at number 138.
I would be greatful for any infomation about the connection.
Regards
Vedam
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