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Miscellaneous Topics on Indian History

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Miscellaneous Topics on Indian History
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Habits and Manners of the Emperor Aurangzeb.

Be it known to the readers of this work that this humble slave of the Almighty is going to describe in a correct manner the excellent character, the worthy habits and the refined morals of this most virtuous monarch, Abú-l Muzaffar Muhiu-d dín Muhammad Aurangzeb 'Álamgír, according as he has witnessed them with his own eyes. The Emperor, a great worshipper of God by natural propensity, is remarkable for his rigid attachment to religion. He is a follower of the doctrines of the Imám Abú Hanífa (may God be pleased with him!), and establishes the five fundamental doctrines of the Kanz. Having made his ablutions, he always occupies a great part of his time in adoration of the Deity, and says the usual prayers, first in the masjid and then at home, both in congregation and in private, with the most heartfelt devotion. He keeps the appointed fasts on Fridays and other sacred days, and he reads the Friday prayers in the Jámi' masjid with the common people of the Muhammadan faith. He keeps vigils during the whole of the sacred nights, and with the light of the favour of God illumines the lamps of religion and prosperity. From his great piety, he passes whole nights in the Mosque which is in his palace, and keeps company with men of devotion. In privacy he never sits on a throne. He gave away in alms before his accession a portion of his allowance of lawful food and clothing, and now devotes to the same purpose the income of a few villages in the district of Dehlí, and the proceeds of two or three salt-producing tracts, which are appropriated to his privy purse. The Princes also follow the same example. During the whole month of Ramazán he keeps fast, says the prayers ap­pointed for that month, and reads the holy Kurán in the assembly of religious and learned men, with whom he sits for that purpose during six, and sometimes nine hours of the night. During the last ten days of the month, he performs worship in the mosque, and although, on account of several obstacles, he is unable to proceed on a pilgrimage to Mecca, yet the care which he takes to promote facilities for pilgrims to that holy place may be con­sidered equivalent to the pilgrimage.

From the dawn of his understanding he has always refrained from prohibited meats and practices, and from his great holiness has adopted nothing but that which is pure and lawful. Though he has collected at the foot of his throne those who inspire ravish­ment in joyous assemblies of pleasure, in the shape of singers who possess lovely voices and clever instrumental performers, and in the commencement of his reign sometimes used to hear them sing and play, and though he himself understands music well, yet now for several years past, on account of his great restraint and self-denial, and observance of the tenets of the great Imám (Sháfi'í), (may God's mercy be on him!), he entirely abstains from this amusement. If any of the singers and musicians becomes ashamed of his calling, he makes an allowance for him or grants him land for his maintenance.

He never puts on the clothes prohibited by religion, nor does he ever use vessels of silver or gold. In his sacred Court no improper conversation, no word of backbiting or falsehood, is allowed. His courtiers, on whom his light is reflected, are cautioned that if they have to say anything which might injure the character of an absent man, they should express themselves in decorous language and at full detail. He appears two or three times every day in his court of audience with a pleasing counte­nance and mild look, to dispense justice to complainants who come in numbers without any hindrance, and as he listens to them with great attention, they make their representations with­out any fear or hesitation, and obtain redress from his impartiality. If any person talks too much, or acts in an improper manner, he is never displeased, and he never knits his brows. His courtiers have often desired to prohibit people from showing so much boldness, but he remarks that by hearing their very words, and seeing their gestures, he acquires a habit of forbearance and tolerance. All bad characters are expelled from the city of Dehlí, and the same is ordered to be done in all places through­out the whole empire. The duties of preserving order and regularity among the people are very efficiently attended to, and throughout the empire, notwithstanding its great extent, nothing can be done without meeting with the due punishment enjoined by the Muhammadan law. Under the dictates of anger and passion he never issues orders of death. In consideration of their rank and merit, he shows much honour and respect to the Saiyids, saints and learned men, and through his cordial and liberal exertions, the sublime doctrines of Hanífa and of our pure religion have obtained such prevalence throughout the wide territories of Hindústán as they never had in the reign of any former king.

Hindú writers have been entirely excluded from holding public offices, and all the worshipping places of the infidels and the great temples of these infamous people have been thrown down and destroyed in a manner which excites astonishment at the success­ful completion of so difficult a task. His Majesty personally teaches the sacred kalima to many infidels with success, and invests them with khil'ats and other favours. Alms and dona­tions are given by this fountain of generosity in such abundance, that the emperors of past ages did not give even a hundredth part of the amount. In the sacred month of Ramazán sixty thousand rupees,* and in the other months less than that amount, are distributed among the poor. Several eating houses have been established in the capital and other cities, at which food is served out to the helpless and poor, and in places where there were no caravanserais for the lodging of the travellers, they have been built by the Emperor. All the mosques in the empire are repaired at the public expense. Imáms, criers to the daily prayers, and readers of the khutba, have been appointed to each of them, so that a large sum of money has been and is still laid out in these disbursements. In all the cities and towns of this extensive country pensions and allowances and lands have been given to learned men and professors, and stipends have been fixed for scholars according to their abilities and qualifications.

As it is a great object with this Emperor that all Muham-madans should follow the principles of the religion as expounded by the most competent law officers and the followers of the Hanífí persuasion, and as these principles, in consequence of the different opinions of the kázis and muftís which have been delivered without any authority, could not be distinctly and clearly learnt, and as there was no book which embodied them all, and as until many books had been collected and a man had obtained sufficient leisure, means and knowledge of theological subjects, he could not satisfy his inquiries on any disputed point, therefore His Majesty, the protector of the faith, determined that a body of eminently learned and able men of Hindústán should take up the voluminous and most trustworthy works which were collected in the royal library, and having made a digest of them, compose a book which might form a standard canon of the law, and afford to all an easy and available means of ascertaining the proper and authoritative interpretation. The chief conductor of this difficult undertaking was the most learned man of the time, Shaikh Nizám, and all the members of the society were very handsomely and liberally paid, so that up to the present time a sum of about two hundred thousand rupees has been expended in this valuable compilation, which contains more than one hundred thousand lines. When the work, with God's pleasure, is completed, it will be for all the world the standard exposition of the law, and render every one independent of Muhammadan doctors.* Another excellence attending this design is, that, with a view to afford facility to all, the possessor of perfections, Chulpí 'Abdu-llah, son of the great and the most celebrated Mauláná 'Abdu-l Hakím of Síalkot, and his several pupils have been ordered to translate the work into Persian.

Among the greatest liberalities of this king of the faithful is this, that he has ordered a remission of the transit duties upon all sorts of grain, cloth, and other goods, as well as on tobacco, the duties on which alone amounted to an immense sum, and to prevent the smuggling of which the Government officers com­mitted many outrages, especially in regard to the exposure of females. He exempted the Muhammadans from taxes, and all people from certain public demands, the income of which exceeded thirty lacs of rupees every year. He relinquished the Government claims against the ancestors of the officers of the State, which used to be paid by deductions from their salaries. This money every year formed a very large income paid into the public treasury. He also abolished the practice of confiscating the estates of deceased persons against whom there was no Gov­ernment claim, which was very strictly observed by the account­ants of his predecessors, and which was felt as a very grievous oppression by their sorrowful heirs. The Royal orders were also issued to collect the revenues of each province according to the Muhammadan law.

Some account of the battles which the Emperor fought before his accession, as well as after that period, has been given above, and we shall now write a few instances of his fortitude. At the time when the Royal army arrived at Balkh, 'Abdu-l 'Azíz Khán, with a large force which equalled the swarms of locusts and ants, came and arranged his men in order of battle, and surrounded the Royal camp. While the conflict was being carried on with great fury, the time of reading the evening prayers came on, when His Majesty, though dissuaded by some worldly officers, alighted from his horse and said the prayers, etc., in a congregation, with the utmost indifference and presence of mind. 'Abdu-l 'Azíz, on hearing of this, was much astonished at the intrepidity of the Emperor, who was assisted by God, and put an end to the battle, saying that to fight with such a man is to destroy oneself.

The Emperor is perfectly acquainted with the commentaries, traditions and law. He always studies the compilations of the great Imám Muhammad Ghizálí (may God's mercy be on him!), the extracts from the writings of Shaikh Sharaf Yahyá Munírí (may his tomb be sanctified!), and the works of Muhí Shírazí, and other similar books. <span style='color:red'>One of the greatest excellences of this virtuous monarch is, that he has learnt the Kurán by heart. Though in his early youth he had committed to memory some chapters of that sacred book, yet he learnt the whole by heart after ascending the throne. </span>He took great pains and showed much perseverance in impressing it upon his mind. He writes a very elegant Naskh hand, and has acquired perfection in this art. He has written two copies of the holy book with his own hand, and having finished and adorned them with ornaments and marginal lines, at the expense of seven thousand rupees, he sent them to the holy cities of Mecca and Medína. He also wrote an excellent Nasta'lík and Shikastah hand. He is a very elegant writer in prose, and has acquired proficiency in versification, but agreeably to the words of God, “Poets deal in falsehoods,” he abstains from practising it. He does not like to hear verses except those which contain a moral. “To please Almighty God he never turned his eye towards a flatterer, nor gave his ear to a poet.”

The Emperor has given a very liberal education to his fortu­nate and noble children, who, by virtue of his attention and care, have reached to the summit of perfection, and made great advances in rectitude, devotion, and piety, and in learning the manners and customs of princes and great men. Through his instruction they have learnt the Book of God by heart, obtained proficiency in the sciences and polite literature, writing the various hands, and in learning the Turkí and the Persian languages.

In like manner, the ladies of the household also, according to his orders, have learnt the fundamental and necessary tenets of religion, and all devote their time to the adoration and worship of the Deity, to reading the sacred Kurán, and performing virtuous and pious acts. The excellence of character and the purity of morals of this holy monarch are beyond all expression. As long as nature nourishes the tree of existence, and keeps the garden of the world fresh, may the plant of the prosperity of this preserver of the garden of dignity and honour continue fruitful!

http://persian.packhum.org/persian/pf?fi...1017&ct=44<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You see, Aurangzeb even if somewhat orthodox was essentially a sickular ruler.
This page is marked for deletion in Wikipedia.

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<b>Bias in South Asian Studies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia </b>
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Ben, Bharatvarsh and Ravi,

These threads will be merged:
History Of Marathis
Maratha-Rajput Relations
Chhatrapathi Shivaji
Abdalli, Jat Sarv Khap, Maharattas, Panipat
good idea.

can we also have the Netaji related debate in the "history of bengal" thread merged/moved to the "netaji" thread?
ONGC to explore route of river Saraswati

Jaisalmer, May 10. (PTI): The ancient river Saraswati might just hold a key to solve the water scarcity problems of desert State Rajashtan, according to Oil and Natural Gas Corporation, which has launched a unique project to discover the route of the river.<b>

Under the project, ONGC in collaboration with Government agency Water and Power Consultancy Services (WAPCOS) would dig many wells in Jaisalmar, Barmer and Bikaner districts that will aid its search for water of the river, believed to have originated in the Thar desert and disappeared into present day Pakistan</b>.

ONGC would dig 16 deep wells at several places in the desert in its search, G Bandhopadhya, WAPCOS General Manager and works leader said.

Amidst chanting of mantras the project titled 'Saraswati,' began on Monday in Dabla in Jaisalmer district in the presence of officials from ONGC and WAPCOS.

Based on a satellite imagery by ONGC, it was found that a few thousand years ago, the river flowed from the northeastern side to a southwestern direction before disappearing into the desert, he said.

Even though in the past a number of agencies worked on a similar mission and even dug out many places, Bandhopadhya said ONGC would dig upto 1000 metres, where others have dug till 200-250 metres only, he said.

ONGC has entrusted the operational activities to WAPCOS.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->ONGC to explore route of river Saraswati<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This must be shocker for Witzel, Fosa and other morons in Western Universities.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->*A.S.I. and planned death of history*

*V SUNDARAM (6 May 2006)*

         Bijamandal Temple at Vidisha is one of massive dimensions comparable
with Konarak in Orissa. It was desecrated again and again since the days of
Sultan Shamsuddeen Iltutmish who first indulged in his iconoclasm at this
site. Then followed Allaudin Kilji. His record was bettered by Bahadur Shah
of Gujarat. Finally came Aurangazeb Alamgir a renowned champion of human
compassion and deathless humanity.

         During one night in the monsoon of 1991, there was heavy rain at a
small town called Vidisha in Madhya Pradesh, 40 kilometres from Bopal. The
downpour was so heavy that it washed away the wall that was concealing the
frontage of the Bijamandal Mosque established by Aurangazeb in 1682. This
Masjid is a centre of attraction for the Muslims. The Muslim clerics called
it Alamgir Masjid. But for the common people of the area it was known as
Bijamandal Mosque.

         The broken and capsized wall following heavy rains in 1991,
completely exposed and brought to public light so many Hindu idols that the
Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) was left with no pseudo-secular choice
for further concealment and consignment into oblivion.

         The fact to be noted is that for more than 300 years, these Hindu
idols were buried under the platform on the northern side, which was used as
the Hall of Prayer conducted especially on days of Eid. The District
Collector having control over this town in 1991, came forward to offer
protection to the Surveyors of the ASI, who were always exposed to the ever
present risk of violent wrath of bigots.

        Exquisitely beautiful treasures of sculpture were retrieved by the
ASI. Many of the statues were particularly splendid, with some of them being
as high as eight feet. But the patent fact which must be noted by all
enlightened citizens in India today is that the ASI within a month received
instructions to stop further work. The officer of the ASI working on the
excavations as well as the Collector were transferred. There was widespread
public belief in all the villages around Vidisa that this was done at the
behest of the then Human Resource Development Minister at the Centre Arjun
Singh, a deathless champion of 'secularism'.

         Is he not trying vigorously to re-write Indian History in order to
hide well-known facts relating to Islamic terrorism in India after 1000 AD?

         As a lover of history, I was reading a report of inspection of this
site by Sir Alexander Cunningham who was the first Director of the
Archaeological Survey of India established by Lord Canning, the Viceroy, in
1862. He visited this site in 1874 and 1876. This is what he wrote in Volume
X of the ASI Report*: "Inside the town there is a stone Masjid called Bijay
Mandir, or the temple of Bijay. This Hindu name is said to have been derived
from the original temple Bijay Rani. The temple was thrown down by the order
of Aurangazeb and the present Masjid erected in its place; but the Hindus
still frequent it at the time of the annual fair. By the Musalmans it is
called 'The Alamgiri Masjid', while Bhilsa (earlier name of Vidisha) itself
is called Alamgirpur. The building is 781/2 feet long by 261/2 feet broad
and the roof is supported on four rows of plain square pillars with 13
openings on front".*

*Desecrated remains of a Hindu temple*
*at the Bijamandal Mosque in Madhya Pradesh.*

         So much by way of non-saffron, non-communal documentary evidence in
favour of the Hindu origins of this famous Mosque in Vidisha. It was
Aurangazeb who destroyed the temple known as Bijay Mandir and converted it
into a Mosque called Bijay Mandal Mosque in 1682. Royal celebrations were
held at the site to commemorate the visit of Aurangazeb to the area and he
took the opportunity of renaming Vidisha as Alamgirpur.

         Though it had been known for a long time that Bijamandal was
originally a temple, namaz at Eid time continued right up to 1965. In 1965,
Dr. Dwaraka Prasad Misra was the Congress Chief Minister of Madhya Pradesh.
It was his government which banned Muslim worship in what was a protected
ASI monument. It is not surprising that Dr Dwaraka Prasad Misra earned the
gratitude of most Vidishans and others in Madhya Pradesh. It was Dr D P
Misra who displayed the requisite moral courage of halting namaz in the
edifice. The Madhya Pradesh government gave a grant of Rs 40,000 for the
construction of a separate Idgaah nearby.

         About 150 years before Aurangazeb's wanton act of destruction of the
Bijamandal Temple at Vidisha, Sultan Bahadur Shah of Gujarat, captured the
town of Vidisha in 1526-27. The first thing he did after capturing the town
was to desecrate the Bijay Mandir, proclaiming that the conquest of Bhilsa
(Vidisha) was in the service of Islam. This fact is recorded in
Mirat-I-Sikandri. About 200 years before him, another great humanist called
Sultan Allaudin Kilji in 1293 had also enjoyed the 'devout' and 'dedicated'
pleasure of damaging the Bijay Mandir. But the supreme credit of being the
Columbus of destruction of this temple in 1234 goes to Sultan Shamsuddeen
Iltutmish.

         Much of the factual information in this article is based on a
brilliant article called Four Vandals, one Temple by Gargi. To quote Gargi
in this context: *"Few temples have had the misfortune of getting desecrated
four times. Being a huge structure, built in solid stones, it was able to
survive and be restituted as a Mandir, three times. The ASI is still to undo
the damage perpetrated finally by Aurangazeb in 1682. Excavation work by ASI
which was stopped by Government of India in 1993-94 is yet to be resumed. It
is no doubt difficult to redeem the pristine glory of Bijay Mandir, whose
scale and dimensions are reminiscent of the Konarak Temple, but it would be
a shame if independent India allows its architectural treasures remain in a
state of desecration and buried without an attempt even to redeem them. It
is all the more unfortunate that the ASI is not being allowed to work on the
site despite pressure from local citizens".*

         The credit of having converted a neutral public service organization
like the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) into a slave of
Congress-sponsored historical negationism and anti-Hindu pseudo secularism
goes wholly to the Congress Party in India after independence. Let me
contrast the shameful record of the Congress Party in India after
independence in the matter of preservation of our cultural heritage and
ancient monuments with that of Lord Curzon, Viceroy of India during 1899 to
1905. He took special interest in the Archaeological Department. It was he
who was responsible for the passing of the Ancient Monuments Preservation
Act in 1904.

         Lord Curzon is remembered for the care he gave to India's great
monuments, not only to the new ones celebrating the British Raj, but also
India's ancient heritage, many of which were in desperate need of
conservation. He showed great sensitivity and refinement in his appreciation
of Hindu and Muslim art. He was determined to ensure that the beauty of the
past should be preserved and those monuments of historical interest and
aesthetic value in India be restored and preserved. He brushed aside the
specious argument that it was not the duty of a Christian Government to
preserve the monuments of pagan art or the sanctuaries of an alien faith. He
believed that art and beauty and the reverence that was owing to all that
had evoked human genius or had inspired human faith, were independent of
particular creeds and insofar as it touched religion, were embraced and
united by the common religion of all mankind. Lord Curzon wrote emphatically
in this context*: "There is no principle of artistic discrimination between
the Mausoleum of the Muslim despot and the Sepulchre of the Christian or
Muslim Saint or a Hindu monument or temple. Whatever is beautiful, whatever
is historic and whatever that tears the mask off the face of the past and
helps mankind to read its riddles and not the dogmas of a primitively
combative theology these are the criteria by which a responsible Government
in India must be guided in its approach to preservation of monuments. I
cannot conceive of any obligation more strictly appertaining to a supreme
government than the conservation of the most beautiful and perfect
collection of monuments in the world, or one more likely to be scamped and
ignored by a delegation of authority to provincial administrations." *

         The conservation work done by the dedicated Officers and men of the
Archaeological Survey of India from 1862 to 1947 was indeed remarkable and
glorious. It could well be described as the golden age of Archaeology in
India. The British Officers and men of the ASI conducted their work with
complete objectivity. Regardless of whether it was a Hindu or a Muslim or a
Christian monument, their efforts to preserve were the same and their
description was always impartial. All these great traditions in the field of
preservation and conservation of ancient and timeless monuments were
destroyed by pseudo-secular men like Nehru, Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi and
Narasimha Rao with consummate skill and organized pseudo-secular
unscrupulousness. Today this great responsibility of destruction of our
cultural and spiritual heritage is being jointly shouldered by a Catholic
Christian & a Pseudo-secular Pagan—I mean the immortal and indispensable
Sonia Gandhi and mortal and dispensable Arjun Singh!!

         To conclude in the beautiful words of Gargi: *"A visit to Vidisha
would enable any enlightened visitor to emotionally understand and
appreciate that there is a lingering below the surface resentment against
the Government treatment of what they believe to be their dearest treasure,
architectural as well as sentimental. The moral of a pilgrimage to Vidisha
is that no purpose would be served by hushing up what is a naked history." *

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hinducivil...ssage/2155<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Four Vandals, One Temple
Gargi
Nov 2005 

One night during the monsoon of 1991, the rain was so heavy that it washed away the wall that was concealing the frontage of the Bijamandal mosque established by Aurangzeb in 1682. This masjid is a centre of attraction in the district town of Vidisha situated some 40 kms from Bhopal. The clerics called it Alamgiri masjid, but in common parlance it was called, "Bijamandal mosque". The broken wall exposed so many Hindu idols that the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) was left with no choice, but to excavate. For three centuries, the idols were buried under the platform, on the northern side, which was used as the hall of prayer conducted specially on days of Eid. Fortunately, the district collector in 1991 happened to offer protection to the surveyors of ASI, who were otherwise to expose themselves to the wrath of bigots.

Rich treasures of sculpture were thus salvaged. Some of the statues were particularly splendid; some were as high as eight feet. The work of the archaeologists, however, did not last long. The ASI soon received instructions to stop further work. The officer of the ASI working on the excavations as well as the collector were transferred.Whether it was done at the behest of the then Human Resource Development Minister at the centre, Shri Arjun Singh, 1991-1994, the well known Islamic lobbyst from Madhya Pradesh, is a matter of conjecture.

The great archaeologist, Sir Alexander Cunningham had personally visited Malwa during1874 AD and also in 1876. This is what he wrote in Volume X of the ASI Report: Inside the town there is a stone masjid called Bijay Mandir, or the temple of Bijay. This Hindu name is said to have been derived from the founder of the original temple, Bijay Rani. The temple was thrown down by the order of Aurangzeb, and the present masjid erected in its place; but the Hindus still frequent it at the time of the annual fair. By the Muhammadans it is called the Alamgiri masjid, while Bhilsa (earlier name of Vidisha) itself is called Alamgirpur. The building is 781/2 feet long by 261/2 feet broad and the roof is supported on four rows of plain square pillars with 13 openings to the front.

Aurangzeb, 1658-1707, was the last of the iconoclasts who had a go at this edifice which was then known as the Vijay Mandir from which the successor mosque was known as Bijamandal. He celebrated the visit by renaming Vidisha as Alamgirpur. Despite some excavations, which clearly showed that Bijamandal was originally a temple, namaz at Eid time continued right upto 1965 when Dr. Dwarka Prasad Mishra's government banned Muslim worship in, what was a protected monument. Mishra earned the gratitute of most Vidishans and many others in Madhya Pradesh.

Earlier, Sultan Bahadur Shah of Gujarat, 1526-37, was the iconoclast of Vidisha. He captured the town and the first thing he did was to desecrate the Vijay Mandir, claiming that the conquest of Bhilsa was in the service of Islam. The episode is recorded in Mirat-l-Sikandri. About 200 years before him,Sultan Alauddin Khilji, 1293, had also enjoyed the 'devout' pleasure of damaging Vijay Mandir. But the credit of being the first iconoclast, belongs to Sultan Shamsuddin Iltutmish, 1234 AD, yet another half a century earlier. The episode is described with relish in Tabqat-e-Nasiri.

Few temples have had the misfortune of getting desecrated four times. Being a huge structure, built in solid stones, it was able to survive and be restituted as a mandir, three times. The ASI is still to undo the damage perperated by Aurangzeb. Excavation work which stopped in 1993-94 is yet to be resumed. It is, no doubt, difficult to redeem the pristine glory of Vijay Mandir, whose scale and dimensions are reminiscent of the Konark temple, but it would be a shame if Independent India allows its architectural treasures to remain in a state of desecration and buried without an attempt to even redeem them.

It is all the more unfortunate that the ASI is not being allowed to work on the site despite pressure from local citizens. No other temple turned mosque has witnessed more repeate dagitations and satyagraha than Vijay Mandir. The citizens of Vidisha relate how, year after year, at Eid time they used to offer satyagraha and get arrested.

Octogenarin Niranjan Verma, a former Parliamentarian, narrated how Jawaharlal Nehru found some or the other excuse not to meet his delegation. Eventually, Nehru diverted Verma to see Maulana Abul Kalam Azad who deputed Prof. Humayun Kabir, the then Education Secretary. The professor was impartial and immediately conceded that it was a Hindu temple.

However, being a bureaucrat, he could not do anything more, because of political repercussions.

Verma and his supporters approached Dr. Kailash Nath Katju, when he became the Chief Minister of Madhya Pradesh. It bore no fruit. Thereafter, they met the next Cheif Minister Mandloi. He showed his sympathy, but expressed his fear of Nehru's wrath. As already mentioned, Dr.D.P. Mishra took the courage of  halting namaz in the edifice. The Madhya Pradesh government donated Rs. 40,000 for the construction of a separate idgaah nearby. By the time, Jawaharlal Nehru had been succeeded by a realistic personality of Lal Bahadur Shastri.

A Visit to Vidisha would reflect that there is a lingering resentment against the government treatment of what they believe to be their dearest treasure, architechtural as well as sentimental. The moral of a pilgrimage to Vidisha is that no purpose would be served by hushing up what is a naked history.

http://www.greenmindz.com/js/jsart.aspx?stid=61<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Essay: THE HEROIC POETRY OF OLD GUJARATI
by K.M. Munshi

Gujarat had heroic poetry in Apabhransa reflecting its martial spirit
in the days of the Chalukyas and Vaghelas. A similar literature in
Old Gujarati has all but disappeared; only two poems give an idea of
its nature. They provide a brilliant picture of the epic heroism
displayed by Gujarat when it grimly contested every inch of ground
with the invader.

The poem, Ranamallachanda, is a short ballad, composed about 1400 by
Sridhara, celebrating the heroic deeds of Ranamalla of Idara. It
consists of seventy stanzas in metres like cupai and duha, and is the
earliest work of a kind which has been a favourite of the bards. This
literature, principally panegyrical, is composed in metres which lend
themselves to recitation with considerable dramatic force. The
language is very often archaic and strongly alliterative. Sometimes
words are altered out of recognition in the interest of sound
effects, and assonances and other verbal tricks abound.

Ranamalla of Idara, of the Kamadhaja or Rathoda family, was a great
warrior. About 1397, he harassed Zafar Khan, the viceroy of Patana,
and spread terror among the Mussalman chiefs.

As the army of the Sultan bristled with valour Ranamalla's whiskers
flew about with wrath.

The Sultan calls upon him to submit. Ranamalla roars :

If my lotus-like head bows before the Mlechhas' feet, the sun will
not rise in the sky. So long as the sun moves in the sky, Kamadhaja
will not bow to a block of stone. Even if the flame of the submarine
fire is extinguished, I will not yield an inch of land to the Mlechha.

A battle ensues between the two armies, and is described in jingling
rhymes. The Mussalmans are routed, and in token of submission the not
unusual humiliation of being made to eat grass is forced on them.
Ranamalla begins to think of world-wide conquest, and he says, "I
will bring under my control everything on which the sun shines."

Kanhadadeprabandha (c. 1456) follows a greater literary tradition. It
deals with the struggle which Gujarata made for self-preservation
after 1297, and breathes the grim and heroic attitude of mind which
prevailed among her people during the fourteenth century. The author,
Padmanabha of Visalanagara, was the poet-laureate of Akheraja, the
Cahamana or Cohana king of Jhalora and a descendant of the hero of
the poem. A few manuscripts of the work, luckily mistaken for those
of a religious work, were preserved by the Jaina temples. Its
language is Old Gujarati, then spoken all over Western Rajasthan
including Gujarat. The style, though not as elegant as Bhalana's,
maintains a high level of expressiveness. The language is neither
trite nor ornate; the interest is well sustained throughout. The
author, however, could not resist the temptation of recording in the
conventional manner the names of Rajput and Mussalman warriors, and
of introducing didactic verses and tedious narrative of past lives.
In some places, the chronological order has not been preserved, and
the same descriptions appear more than once. As a narrative, it is
much better than many other rasas; and it has the merit of being
without religious bias.

The poem opens with a prayer, and proceeds to mention Maravada, `the
land of nine forts', and the Sonagira Cohanas `as noble looking as
royal swans'. Karnadeva Ghelo ruled in Gujarata. Being enamoured of
Kesava's wife, he killed the husband and appropriated the wife. The
minister Madhava, Kesava's brother, moved by wrath, said, "I shall
not taste any food in Gujarata till I bring the Turks here." One
this, the poet feelingly laments :

To the place where he worshipped his God and sang His praises; where
he performed sacrifices and gave gifts to Brahmanas; where he
worshipped the sacred Tulsi plant and Pipala tree, heard recited the
Vedas and the Puranas; where all go for pilgrimage; where all sing
the Smrtis and the Puranas, there, Madhava brought the Mlechhas.

Ready to betray his country for a private wrong, Madhava goes to
Delhi. He approaches Sultan Alla-ud-din with presents and offers to
subdue Gujarat if an army is given to him. The sultan consents, and
sends a message to Kanhadade, the Cohana king of Jhalora, to let the
imperial army pass through his territory on its way to Gujarata.
Proudly, Kanhadade replies :

I owe no such duty. They will plunder the villages; take my men
prisoners; tear off women's ears. I do not make way for those who
oppress the Brahmana and the cow.

But Alla-ud-din, determined to conquer Gujarat, secures a passage
through Mevada. Battada of Modasa vainly bars the way of the
onrushing hosts.

Pillaging, burning, destroying, the Sultan's army marches towards
Patana. The Mussalmans, with Madhava at their head, invest the city.
The ex-minister, traitor to the last, advises Karna to escape with
his life. The king takes the advice; the queen flees on foot; and the
capital falls into the hands of Alafkhan, the general of Alla-ud-din.
`And from what once were temples was sounded the muezzin's call to
prayers.'

The army then started on a further campaign of conquest and
destruction to the south. It carried carnage right up to Surat,
Rander, and the sea; returned to Saurashtra, destroyed many of its
towns, and proceeded to Prabhasa. The Rajputs mobilised their
strength to protect the shrine of Somanatha, and valiantly fought the
enemy. But the fortress fell; and in front of the temple which they
had vainly sought to protect, the heroic warriors, after ceremonial
bathing and anointment, fell fighting, `surrendered themselves to
Somanatha'. Madhava, the cause of all this evil, was also killed.

The temple had fallen into the hands of the enemy. Alafkhan broke
open the shrine, shattered the idol to pieces, and carried away the
fragments in a cart to Delhi. "We shall make chunam out of it", he
said. The poet then piteously asks Siva :

O Rudra! By your wrath you burnt the demons. You spread virtue in the
world; You removed the terror which oppressed the gods; You put to
flight the powerful demon, Tripura, even as the wind blows away
chaff. Padmanabha asks you : O Rudra ! Where is now your mighty
trident ?

The conquering army, the poet proceeds, burnt villages, devastated
the land, plundered people's wealth; took Brahmanas, children and
women of all castes captive, and flogged them with thongs of raw
hide; carried a moving prison with it, and converted the prisoners
into obsequious Turks. Alafkhan then turned his attention to
Kanhadade, who had declined to give a passage to his army.

Parvati and Ganga, God Somanatha's spouses, urge Kanhadade in a dream
to save the god from the hands of the Mlechha. When Alafkhan sends a
message to Kanhadade, he gets a fitting reply : "A hero never praises
himself. He who performs heroic deeds alone wins fame." Alafkhan
thereupon continues his march and encamps at Sirana.

Ministers of the Cohana king call on the Khan, who shows them his
army and his prisoners. The ministers report the state of things to
Kanhadade, who gets ready for battle. The goddess Asapura is
worshipped; necessary orders are given; and the Rajput armies go
forward to meet the foe.

In the battle that follows, the Turks are routed. Alafkhan flees for
life. The idol of Somanath is recovered, and nine lacs of prisoners
are set free. The victory is then celebrated in Jhalora, and the
conqueror returns home amidst the rejoicings of his people.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
excerpted from GUJARATA AND ITS LITERATURE by K.M.MUNSHI

http://www.geocities.com/ungandhi/kmmunshi1.htm<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
http://www.art-and-archaeology.com/india/india.html

Monuments of India


North Index I: Sanchi stupas; Pratiharas in Rajasthan
Index IV: Khajuraho (Chandella dynasty)
Index VII: the Mughals; Taj Mahal; Rajputana; Goa

Deccan
Index II: Ajanta, Elephanta, and Ellora cave-temples; the Early Chalukyas Index V: Badami (Late Chalukya); Warangal (Kakatiya) Index VIII: Vijayanagara; Islamic kingdoms

South
Index III: Mamallapuram Index VI: various Chola and Hoysala sites Index IX: Nayaka kingdoms; Mysore


East Index X: Nalanda and Bodhgaya; Bhubaneshwar Index XI: Konarak Index XII: Calcutta

Hello all

I'm new here on these forums and I'd like to ask a question about Kalki avatar to any resident experts:

Is it true that Kalki is described as "yantra-manava" in either the Kalki Purana or Mahabharata or some other relevant text in which he is mentioned?

According to http://webapps.uni-koeln.de/tamil/, "yantra-manava" would translate as follows:

yantra = n. any instrument for holding or restraining or fastening , a prop , support , barrier RV. &c. &c. ; a fetter , band , tie , thong , rein , trace Mn. MBh. ; a surgical instrument (esp. a blunt one , such as tweezers , a vice &c. , opp. to %{zastra}) Sus3r. Va1gbh. ; <b>any instrument or apparatus , mechanical contrivance , engine , machine </b>, implement , appliance (as a bolt or lock on a door , oars or sails in a boat , &c.) MBh. Ka1v. &c. (cf. %{kUpa-} , %{jala-} , %{taila-y-} ; ibc. or ifc. often = <b>mechanical</b> , magical) ; restraint , force (%{eNa} ind. forcibly , violently) MW. ; an amulet , mystical diagram supposed to possess occult powers Katha1s. Pan5car. (cf. RTL. 203).

manava = mf(%{I4})n. (fr. %{ma4nu}) <b>descended from or belonging to man or Manu , human</b> RV. &c. &c. ; favouring men RV. ix , 98 , 9 ; m. <b>a human being , man</b> RV. , &c. &c. ; patr. fr. %{ma4nu} (N. of Na1bha1-nedisht2ha , Sa1rya1ta , Cakshus , Nahusha , Bhr2igu. Su-dyumna , Karu1sha , and Deva-hu1ti) Br. Pur. &c. ; N. of a cosmic period VP. ; pl. the children of men , mankind RV. &c. &c. ; the races of men (of which 5 or 7 are reckoned) AV. Br. ; the subjects of a king Mn. R. ; N. of a school of the black Yajurveda Hcat. ; (%{I}) f. a daughter of man , a woman RV. &c. &c. ; Jasminum Auriculatum L. ; N. of a Vidya1-devi1 L. ; of a goddess (executing the commands of the 11th Arhat of the present Avasarpin2i1) L. ; of a river MBh. (v.l. %{tAnsasI}) ; pl. N. of partic. verses Gaut. ; n. a man's length (as a measure) VarBr2S. ; 1 partic. penance Pra7yasc. ; N. of various Sa1mans A1rshBr. [810,1] ; of Manu's law-book Vas. ; of a Varsha Cat.


A machine descended from man? Some kind of post-human? Or a machine man?

I'm willing to bet this "yantra-manava" describtion must have been started on the Internet by some keyboard intellectual who has actually never read the relevant texts. I cannot believe any text so ancient could describe an android or a posthuman.

Can anybody here shed any light on this?

Thank you very much in advance!

Marvel

did you mean something like this?

<img src='http://www.cyberiapc.com/vgg/stills/sms/terminator2_1.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

are you serious?
what is the advice that krisha/vishnu gives to arjuna in the baghavad gita:

a)victory is everything
b)to hold fast to right conduct...all material things are of equal value
c)lead a monastic life, fasting and meditiation, to achieve right conduct
d)way of the budda is the correct path


and is mohenjo daro associated with somekind of wheel?
Another instance of Hindu resistance to Islamic fanaticism that has been ignored:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->INVASION OF TRAVANCORE

Travancore had an alliance (Treaty of Mangalore) with the English Company according to which "an aggression against Travancore would be viewed as equivalent to declaration of war against the English" (p. 566). The Dutch who were afraid of Tipu also agreed to transfer the Kodungallur Fort to Travancore, mainly as a strategy to involve the more powerful British in case of war with Travancore on that account. Since Cochin was considered a tributary to Mysore, Tipu objected to the transfer of Kodungallur Fort which was part of Cochin territory before its occupation by the Dutch. Therefore, Tipu Sultan demanded of Travancore to (i) allow free access to Kodungallur because the Travancore defence line had stretched and passed through Cochin territory, and (ii) surrender all Hindu Rajas and nobles from Malabar who had taken refuge in Travancore. But the demand was rejected. That was his pretext for waging a war against the Travancore State. In the meantime, the Cochin Raja, who was under the guidance and protection of the weak Dutch, openly shook off his tributary links with Tipu and aligned with Travancore after the firm offer of support and protection by the British. It may be noted here that Tipu never fought against the British in Kerala. He fought only against the Hindu Rajas. His hostilities against the British were stepped up only when his ally, the French, waged wars against the British in Europe or his own kingdom was threatened.


TIPU CRIPPLED AND DEFEATED

The Travancore Raja replied to Tipu explaining that he did what he did as per the advice of the British (p. 517). That provoked Tipu. He launched an attack against Travancore but was defeated in January, 1790. According to Mr. Powney who was the Resident Representative of the English Company in Travancore, Tipu's attack was not only effectively stopped by the Travancore army, Tipu himself fell down from the rampart, was seriously wounded, and was rendered permanently lame during the counter-attack by the Travancore forces.

Tipu and his army were camping on the banks of the Alwaye river before launching the attack on the Travancore defence lines (Nedunkotta Fort). The Travancore army was no match for the huge Mysore army and the monsoon season was four or five months away. Therefore, under the guidance of Raja Kesavadas, the Prime Minister of Travancore, a temporary bund was constructed way up on the stream by a team headed by Kalikutty Nair. When the Mysore army launched its assault and Nedunkotta was penetrated, the temporary bund was breached in the midst of heavy fighting, causing an unexpected flood which drowned many Mysore soldiers and rendered the gunpowder wet and useless. The result was panic and confusion in the Mysore army. The triumphant Nair forces of Travancore inflicted heavy casualties on the- invading army. But the valiant Kalikutty Nair was also drowned in the sudden surge of water and became a martyr.

That was the first time, January 1, 1790, when Tipu Sultan tasted a humiliating defeat. It is recorded in Travancore history and also confirmed by the local folklore that as the wounded Tipu was lying unconscious in the battlefield he was rescued by a Nair soldier who quietly carried the unconscious Sultan to the Mysore military camp during the night and left quickly (p. 518). The brave Nair soldier could have easily killed the unconscious Tipu as many Muslims have done to a Hindu in similar circumstances; but his Hindu values of life prompted him to deposit the helpless victim near the Muslim camp.

According to authentic historical records, the Nair forces of Travancore attacked the Mysore army which was crossing the defence fortification, and inflicted heavy casualties on it. The sudden and unexpected attack made the Mysore Army panicky, and in the confusion Tipu Sultan fell down from the ramparts of the fort into the ditch below along with his palanquin. The fall made him permanently lame. Later on, the Travancore forces recovered from the ditch the sword, the pallanquin, the dagger, the ring and many other personal effects of Tipu and presented them to the Dharma Raja. Some of Tipu's personal weapons and ornaments were sent to the Nawab of Arcot on his request (Travancore History by P. Sankunny Menon, published by Kerala Bhasha Institute, Trivandrum, pp. 191-92).


TIPU'S SECOND DEFEAT

Tipu retreated and sent for reinforcements from Coimbatore and Srirangapatanam. He also "recalled all his Muslim troops despatched earlier to different parts of South Malabar to hunt down and forcibly circumcise the Hindus and convert them" (p. 518). After regrouping and reinforcing his army, Tipu mounted another attack in March 1790 in order to demolish the Travancore defence line. He reached upto Veropally (Varapuzha) near Alwaye. Meanwhile, following firm assurance of support and protection by the English Company who had by this time extended their military power and political influence to the entire West Coast and South India, some of the important Malabar Rajas such as Pazhassi Raja, Kolathiri Raja and Kadathanad Raja, returned to their respective kingdoms and asserted their independence from Mysore suzerainty. The Cochin Raja shook off his tributary link with Mysore. The Zamorin and the Palghat Raja were promised help by the British in their opposition to the Mysore Sultan, with the promise of restoring their lost territories to them after the defeat of Tipu. All the Hindu Rajas and nobles had thus joined hands with the British against the war efforts of Tipu mainly because of his Islamic atrocities against the Hindus in Kerala. Revolt against the Mysore occupation forces broke out all over Malabar and spread to Coorg with the return of the chieftains to their respective areas. Before the end of 1790, the British captured Palghat Fort and secured the communication channel from Coimbatore to the West Coast for assisting the Travancore forces against the Mysore army. All along, Tipu's forces assisted by the Mappilas were devastating and plundering the entire country as per the recorded version of Martab Khan, Commander of the Mysore army.

By the time Tipu Sultan launched his second attack and demolished parts of Nedungotta in May 1790, heavy monsoon rains caused the Alwaye river to flood the countryside. Since the Mysore army was not accustomed to fighting during rainy season, it was easy for the Travancore army to defeat Tipu's army. That was the second defeat Tipu suffered near Alwaye in 1790.

In the meantime, Lord Cornwallis, the Governor General, himself assumed the command of the British forces and pushed forward towards Srirangapatanam, headquarters of Tipu Sultan. Simultaneously, the Maratha and the Nizam's forces also advanced from different directions. The final assault was mounted and Srirangapatanam surrounded in January-February 1791 by a combined army consisting of the British, Maratha and the Nizam's forces. Tipu Sultan, who-rushed to Srirangapatanam, abandoning his military operations against Travancore, was forced to sign a treaty in 1792 ceding the entire West Coast and half of his other possessions to the Allies, thus relieving the Hindus of Kerala from further Islamic brutalities.


ROLE OF THE BRITISH

It may be noted here that the Maharaja of Travancore had kept the British Governor of Madras informed about the political developments and the imminent military operations of Tipu Sultan against Travancore. But the then Governor of Madras, Mr. Holland, in spite of the obligations under the Treaty of Mangalore, specifically instructed the British contingents sent to the Travancore borders, not to assist the Travancore forces in case of war. When the Governor General, Lord Cornwallis, heard about Travancore's victory over Tipu's forces, he assumed at first that it was due to the active assistance rendered by the English Company. But later on, he came to know about the dubious actions and the corrupt character of Mr. Holland. The Governor of Madras was believed to be in the pay of Tipu Sultan. So he was relieved of his responsibilities and Lord Cornwallis himself assumed command of the Madras Army. The military operations against Srirangapatanam culminated in Tipu's surrender and the Treaty of Srirangapatanam signed in 1792. But as far as Tipu's defeat and humiliation on the borders of Travancore were concerned, the British played no role; the entire credit for the victory goes to the strategy of Raja Kesava Das and the valiant soldiers of the Travancore army. The British not only did not keep their solemn promise to the Malabar kings and chieftains, but also insisted that Travancore should pay heavily for the British "help".

http://www.voiceofdharma.com/books/tipu/ch04.htm<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->APPENDIX 2
NEDUMKOTTA: TRAVANCORE DEFENCE FORTIFICATION

The Nedumkotta was a defence fortification constructed along the northern borders of the erstwhile Travancore State. It passed through the territories of the then Cochin State.

The Nedumkotta was built primarily to resist the invasion under Hyder Ali Khan against Travancore State. It was raised mainly with clay and mud, and reinforced with stones, laterite and granite at strategic places. It started from the Krishan Kotta on the west coast, above Kodungallur, and stretched upto the Annamalai Hills on the Western Ghats. It was about 48 km long, twenty feet wide and twelve feet high. Its alignment was along the Periyar river on the west coast upto Chalakudy from where it went along the Chalakudy river upto the Annamalai Hills in the east. There were underground cells to store gunpowder and other war materials, special chambers for soldiers to live, and look-outs and mounted field-guns all along the fortification. Besides, on the north side of the fortification, ditches were dug twenty feet wide and sixteen feet deep, and filled with thorny plants, poisonous snakes, and hidden weapons. On the south side as well as on the top of the fortification, wide roads were laid for the convenience of military movements.

The fortification was constructed during the regime of Rama Varma Raja, popularly known as Dharma Raja of Travancore, and under the direct guidance and supervision of the then Prime Minister, Ayyappan Marthanda Pillai, and the then Commander of the Travancore Army, the Portuguese Captain D'Lenoy. This historic defence line was comparable to the Great Wall of China except that the latter was more ancient and greater in length. It was under the protective cover of this Nedumkotta that a small army of Travancoreans under the command of Raja Keshavadas defeated and frustrated near Alwaye a formidable army of Islamic fanatics led by Tipu Sultan.

Today there is no physical evidence of the historic Nedumkotta in the form of even ruins anywhere in the Mukundapuram taluka - Chettuva, Parur, Kodakara, Chalakudy, Mullurkara, Enamanakhal and Karikodu - through which it passed. However, some place-names having a reference to the historic fortification are still popular in the northern borders of the erstwhile Cochin and Travancore States - Krishnan Kotta (meaning Krishnan Fort), Kottamukku (fort corner), Kottamuri (part of a fort), Kottaparampu (fort land), Kotta Vazhi (fort road), Kottalaparampu (magazine ground), Palayam (cantonment), etc.

Unfortunately, there are no memorials erected anywhere in Kodungallur, or Trichur, or Alwaye to honour Dharma Raja who gave shelter in his state to thousands of Hindus escaping from the Islamic brutalities of the fanatic Tipu Sultan; or Ayyappan Marthanda Pillai who was the architect of the historic Nedumkotta; or Raja Keshavadas under whose direct command a comparatively small army humbled and defeated the invading army of Tipu Sultan; or scores of valiant Hindu soldiers who laid down their lives to protect their country and faith.

The most despicable and shameful act of the anti-Hindu secularist government of Kerala since Independence was that instead of honouring the legendary heroes of the land, a memorial in the form of a flagstaff was erected near the historic Trichur Palace to perpetuate the memory of the Islamic bigot Tipu Sultan who was instrumental in the forcible mass circumcision and killing of Hindus, destruction of Hindu temples, and devastation of the Malabar, Trichur, Alwaye and Kodungallur regions.

Reference

1. Kerala Charitradharakal (Historical Documents) by Naduvattam Gopalakrishnan, pp. 84-89.

2. Thiruvithamkur Charitram (Travancore History) by P. Sankunni Menon, p. 161.

3. Kerala Charitram (Kerala History) by A. Sreedhara Menon, p. 55.

4. Malabar Manual by William Logan, p. 455.

http://www.voiceofdharma.com/books/tipu/appe02.htm<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Peru link to Indian archaeological find?
<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Aug 10 2006, 08:29 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Aug 10 2006, 08:29 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Peru link to Indian archaeological find?
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I wrote Dr. Karanth following email. (r_v_karanth@yahoo.co.in)

Dear Sir,

Just recently I read this news article on BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5237714.stm) regarding your discovery in Kutch. I would like to congratulate you on this amazing find. India has the most prominent role in the history of human civilization. Most of it is knowingly or unknowingly ignored by the ‘relevant world’. There are very few dedicated individuals like yourself who are committed in doing a job that is not sufficiently appreciated or rewarded. I hail you for your brave resilience. Most of us Indians here dearly wish to see individuals like you succeed. I for one would like to offer my humble service.

Since history and archeology is my favorite subjects I usually record several interesting documentaries about western history and archeology that they show here. They cover subjects like Atlantis, Pompeii, Ancient Roman engineering, Inca, Mayans, Sumer etc. in great detail. After looking at this really well made documentaries, I could not help but think about ancient Indian civilization in Harrappa, Dwarka, Mahabalipuram etc. I always felt the eagerness to show those shows to the expert of ancient Indian Civilization and see if there could be link between well known western and middle eastern civilizations and the less known ancient Indian civilization. With this hope I wish to bring to you the vcd of those recorded programs, for your viewing pleasure. I will be coming to Ahmedabad in October and would love to visit you in Vadodara. Though this programs may not reveal any new information or disinformation to you I am sure you will find them to be very interesting presentations.
Do let me know if you would be interested in viewing this vcds. Also if there is any particular subject you would wish to hear about let me know. If I find it I will be able to get it for you.
<!--QuoteBegin-jayshastri+Aug 10 2006, 10:07 PM-->QUOTE(jayshastri @ Aug 10 2006, 10:07 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Aug 10 2006, 08:29 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mudy @ Aug 10 2006, 08:29 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Peru link to Indian archaeological find?
[right][snapback]55387[/snapback][/right]
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I wrote Dr. Karanth following email. (r_v_karanth@yahoo.co.in)

Dear Sir,

Just recently I read this news article on BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5237714.stm) regarding your discovery in Kutch. I would like to congratulate you on this amazing find. India has the most prominent role in the history of human civilization. Most of it is knowingly or unknowingly ignored by the ‘relevant world’. There are very few dedicated individuals like yourself who are committed in doing a job that is not sufficiently appreciated or rewarded. I hail you for your brave resilience. Most of us Indians here dearly wish to see individuals like you succeed. I for one would like to offer my humble service.

Since history and archeology is my favorite subjects I usually record several interesting documentaries about western history and archeology that they show here. They cover subjects like Atlantis, Pompeii, Ancient Roman engineering, Inca, Mayans, Sumer etc. in great detail. After looking at this really well made documentaries, I could not help but think about ancient Indian civilization in Harrappa, Dwarka, Mahabalipuram etc. I always felt the eagerness to show those shows to the expert of ancient Indian Civilization and see if there could be link between well known western and middle eastern civilizations and the less known ancient Indian civilization. With this hope I wish to bring to you the vcd of those recorded programs, for your viewing pleasure. I will be coming to Ahmedabad in October and would love to visit you in Vadodara. Though this programs may not reveal any new information or disinformation to you I am sure you will find them to be very interesting presentations.
Do let me know if you would be interested in viewing this vcds. Also if there is any particular subject you would wish to hear about let me know. If I find it I will be able to get it for you.
[right][snapback]55396[/snapback][/right]
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This was his responce

<i>Thank you for showing interest in the recent finding of ours. Kachchh in particular has many fascinating facts to offer.
You are welcome to my place at Baroda when come to India in October. I would love to see the VCDs that you have.
Wish you all the best,
Truly yours,
RVKaranth

--His address--</i>

short, yes, but welcoming.
Jay, If you are in NoCal how about sharing those VCDs with us or atleast the program names? Sharing begins at home!
<!--QuoteBegin-ramana+Aug 11 2006, 08:05 PM-->QUOTE(ramana @ Aug 11 2006, 08:05 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Jay, If you are in NoCal how about sharing those VCDs with us or atleast the program names? Sharing begins at home!
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what is nocal? those who want VCDs should let me know waht topics they are interested in i can send if or when i have it. curretly i am recording following channels- history channel, discovery times, military history.
NoCal = Northern California (Bay Area, San Jose, San Fransisco etc)
i am not in NoCal or So Cal i am in WesFlo


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