also i'd like to know exactly how many members are willing to settle for a spouse who would be considered "Dark" by indian standards. how many would prefer a Nandita das or Madhaven over a Ravina Tandon or a Rahul Bose. Be dead honest. Sometimes words need to be backed by actions, so i ask how many of you are willing to practice what you preach.
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See, the thread title starts with "Obsession" - A fixation cannot be rationally explained. To each unto his own, and it is rather inane to even begin discussing such fixations, unless one is a "Professional Researcher" working on witchcraft.
Why do Americans have "Obsession" with bleaching their teeth white? and does one care? No. Not until, bleached white teeth people, tip the "Power & Privilege" balance. Should that happen, we can discuss it. Whiteness is defined in terms of power and privilege (that is, that part of the definition is widely agreed upon). As to why colonized people have fixation on it, might be an interesting study to the role of Colonialism in setting the Whiteness benchmark.
Again, a benchmark in and of itself may be harmless to a social unit (am going out on a limb here), but if it gets into self-loathing by others and starts affecting the social units, then we have a problem. Now we see Marxists using this Whiteness studies etc, and filtering it through "Identity" and we all know where it will end. Bashing Hindus, let's not fall for it.
Anyways, thought we need a course correction in this thread. Back to my cave and deal with other obsessions. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo-->
There is no biological reason to prefer one skin color over another, so it must be cultural. One could say that the White Race has been powerful the last 200 years, so maybe people equate lighter skin with power. This could be similar to Indians who act westernized, pretending to be white... maybe they feel that they absorb some of that power (ofcourse a copy is never equal to the original). To show this is correlated with the rise of White power, we would need to show evidence that in the past it wasn't a factor.
The Chinese for example have believed in fair skin being superior for a while as far as I know.
How about Fat women, how many would prefer that ?
Also what about the other side, are lighter skinned males prefered by Indian women ?
<!--QuoteBegin-ben_ami+Mar 26 2006, 09:22 AM-->QUOTE(ben_ami @ Mar 26 2006, 09:22 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
also i'd like to know exactly how many members are willing to settle for a spouse who would be considered "Dark" by indian standards. how many would prefer a Nandita das or Madhaven over a Ravina Tandon or a Rahul Bose. Be dead honest. Sometimes words need to be backed by actions, so i ask how many of you are willing to practice what you preach.
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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->OUT OF LINE- Neither fair nor lovely
 Indians are perpetrators as well as victims of institutionalised racism
 BY RUCHIR JOSHI <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
is <b>garbage</b>. Typical rants with no substance, no insights, other than put indian social problems into "Western Constructs" of analysis, formulation and finally wrong solutions.
people have a fixation for a white/fair spouse not cos white symbolises power, but because such is the existing ethos that whites are considered most attractive. which in fact they are, except those that are white like dead fish or white like dean jones who is actually radish-red in colour.
If Whites infact are more attractive, then there is a logical reason why people would like fairer skin. However, there are also many ugly white people, so features, health and symmetry are also factors. I don't think White automatically = more attractive.
I don't like the assertion that Indians are somehow more discriminatory than other races, I have shown the hidden discrimination in other countries. Anyone who attacks my race, I will research their racial background, and point out numerous racist features of their race (Indians tend to be a lot more tolerant than most races, so it's not that hard.)
As a Hindu Indian, we should never let racist propaganda tear down our race
<!--QuoteBegin-ben_ami+Mar 26 2006, 11:51 PM-->QUOTE(ben_ami @ Mar 26 2006, 11:51 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->people have a fixation for a white/fair spouse not cos white symbolises power, but because such is the existing ethos that whites are considered most attractive. which in fact they are, except those that are white like dead fish or white like dean jones who is actually radish-red in colour.
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"people have a fixation for a white/fair spouse not cos white symbolises power, but because such is the existing ethos that whites are considered most attractive. which in fact they are, except those that are white like dead fish or white like dean jones who is actually radish-red in colour."
To whom are they more attractive?, maybe to you. I would be willing to settle for any colour as long as she looks good, Tyra Banks and Naomi Watts are pretty dark by Indian standards but I think they will beat all these gora wannabe heroines in Bollywood any day in terms of looking good, that is why I don't like it when a lot of Indians bang on abt the white man in front of me cuz most probably they then go home and apply fair and lovely to their faces, and Nandita Das also looks alright. Raveena Tandon looks better than Das because of facial features (atleast for me) not due to fair skin, at any rate Tyra Banks who is much more darker will win hands down between the two in terms of looks. The fair skinned Kushbu is not very good looking compared to Vivica Fox or Naomi Capmbell, maybe to you white people are most attractive but don't project your thinking onto others. I think Ashanti is looking good here:
Also White as in the white race is not the same as a fair skinned Indian. Racial features are also a factor, not just skin color. For example why is Colin Powell considered Black, when he is very fair skinned, just because he has African features ?
<!--QuoteBegin-agnivayu+Mar 27 2006, 02:11 AM-->QUOTE(agnivayu @ Mar 27 2006, 02:11 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't think White automatically = more attractive. Â
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no white doesnt mean more attractive automatically. i didnt say that either.
the undercurrent (both in india and the west) is such that western features and white/fair skin is considered the thing to have.
and colin powel IS dark, and is of black lineage - he is from Puetro Rico.
and i never said that i personally prefer white skin. to me the best complexion is that of persians. glowing olive.
Persians have a lot of facial hair. Colin Powell is more fair skinned than many people who are considered white (especially Italian/ Mediterrenean types).
He probably has more White blood in him than Black, but because of the one drop rule he is considered Black. Although in his caribbean country he is high caste.
<!--QuoteBegin-ben_ami+Mar 28 2006, 12:12 AM-->QUOTE(ben_ami @ Mar 28 2006, 12:12 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-agnivayu+Mar 27 2006, 02:11 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(agnivayu @ Mar 27 2006, 02:11 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't think White automatically = more attractive. Â
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no white doesnt mean more attractive automatically. i didnt say that either.
the undercurrent (both in india and the west) is such that western features and white/fair skin is considered the thing to have.
and colin powel IS dark, and is of black lineage - he is from Puetro Rico.
and i never said that i personally prefer white skin. to me the best complexion is that of persians. glowing olive.
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Guys, the discussion is (rapidly) getting the stature of borderline and outright<b>silly</b> . Please use other fora to discuss your personal preferences, skin colors, make up, minutae of facial hair, floral arrangements etc elsewhere (tongue in cheek) <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
05-11-2006, 06:43 PM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2006, 06:46 PM by Husky.)
Raveena Tandon and Nandita Das are both very beautiful, IMO. Though I've seen the former act and only pictures of the latter. Aishwarya has a facial structure common to many South Indian Malayali, Tamil and Kannadiga women. Except for the eye and hair colours and the extremely light complexion, but her facial structure is the most memorable. In Mohabattein she looks most like the women I'm talking about.
You can very easily find great looking people from all over the world:
- China, Taiwan, etc: Zhang Zi Yi, Vivian Zhao, Shu Qi, Gong Li
Men: Takeshi Kaneshiro, Ekin Cheng, all those Chinese, Japanese and Korean soap dramas have very handsome looking men and beautiful women.
- Africa: We don't get any African movies here. But I will look at African North Americans and European celebrities that I've seen in the last 3 weeks on TV/newspapers/online
Women: Pam Grier, dozens of women in adverts, Naomi Campbell who I think is lovelier than Tyra Banks (though she's lovely too), the heroine from the British film "28 days later", too many to list really
Woman politician: Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Somalian ex-Muslim turned political activist against Islam. She's the one who got the film Submission made that resulted in the murder of a Dutch filmmaker
Men: the leading man in the series LAX (Brian Underwood?). The actor playing doctor Burke in 'Grey's anatomy' - he's adored by the women in my family and the only reason for watching the show. In fact, he's the only good looking man on the show or on TV at present. He should be a lead actor in films. Also, one of the cops in a US show called Line of Fire
- Italy: Monica Bellucci, Sonia Aquino
Men: Daniel Liotti, Paolo Seganti
- Britain (Ireland, Wales, England), Europeans in Australia, America, Canada: Alison Doody (Irish), Catherine Zeta-Jones (Welsh), Peta Wilson (Australian), Angelina Jolie (Native American, Czech, French, American)
Men: Jack Davenport (England), Pierce Brosnan (Irish) I'm sure there are others, but I can't remember at present
- Native American: quite a few background actors in The Last of the Mohicans were extremely good looking and photogenic or cinematic. Both male and female.
Angelina Jolie again
Iranian/Parsee: Persis Khambatta - don't know any Iranians but I'm sure they're good looking too.
Indian: all the women in my family, all the men in my family. All of the people in Tamil Nadu and Karnataka, all Indians NSEW. Very beautiful.
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I have filled your survey and made a good use of company provided internet. In India fair skin is certainly desirable~being patriarchal pressure is more on females. But more than anything else I think this is normal human psychology~you want what you don't have...contact with white caucasians may have ignited this desire more, if anything.
haha no year 12 means 12th grade in high school- I think in India you say 12th standard?
Anyways, thanks heaps for filling out my survey- its much appreciated
Its interesting what you said about the pressure being more on females...i never really thought of that aspect before
Please read Frantz Fanon's treatise Black Skin, White Masks, in case you have not already.
IMO, desiring whiteness has to be viewed through power and privileges attributed to "whiteness". There are aspects (perhaps) with the idea/notion of beauty or personal predilections, but to each unto his own <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> when it comes to the latter aspects.
05-17-2006, 10:18 PM (This post was last modified: 05-17-2006, 10:23 PM by agnivayu.)
IMO, the % of people who look good are about the same in each race, there are plenty of ugly fair skinned people.
I don't neccessarily believe the ancient Chinese saying that 'Fair skin equals 3 blemishes'.
BTW: A side question, I have observed that Australians more than any other Western nation seem really racist towards Indians (and non Whites in general). I see this from reading Australian newspapers and forums on the internet. In my opinon it's because Australians may be fearful that their country of less than 20 million is dwarfed by a giant Asian continent of 3 billion + right above them, and they are afraid of losing their European roots and identity. What do you think ?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->=elizag,May 15 2006, 06:50 PM]haha no year 12 means 12th grade in high school- I think in India you say 12th standard?
Anyways, thanks heaps for filling out my survey- its much appreciated
Its interesting what you said about the pressure being more on females...i never really thought of that aspect before
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Hey all
(sorry- I thought it might be easier to start a new thread on this so I deleted it but then the moderator said I should just continue in this one so im re-posting it.)
I'm a 12th standard student from Australia, doing my major work on the whole fair skin obsession that seems to pervade indian society. Im basically trying to get opinions from people living in India, and compare them with opinions from Indians living in Australia on this issue, and so then I would be able to find out just how much your cultural background influences your perception of physical beauty.
Any opinions, personal experiences or insights into this will be really really appreciated, as I could use it as my primary research.
Also, I need to have all these surveys filled out by people from India and Australia, so if any of you had the time to visit the site
Otherwise, any comments on here would also be greatly appreciated
Just some discussion topics--
Is one's ideals of beauty (i.e. the ideal skin complexion) shaped by the power structure, or the values of their society? For example, in India darkness is equated with the labourer classes, and perhaps its history of British colonialism and Aryan rulers has contributed to the perception of fair skin as superior. In Western Countries, such as Australia, being tanned is associated with lesuire, a healthy outbdoor life, etc. and fair skin may be seen as a sign of an unhealthy indoor life, or is perhaps associated with the snobbish upper classes.
Perhaps the obsession with fair skin in Indians could stem from a shame of their cultural identity? Are they trying to emulate the white cultures because they deem theirs to be inferior?
How does the media contribute to this perception; e.g. the perception of fair skin in India is reinforced by Bollywood actresses and models, advertisements, television shows. Any examples or opinions on the role of the media in either Western countries for tanned skin, or India for fair skin would be great to hear.
Do we just want what we can't have? Is it just because fair skin is considered to be an exotic, and therefore more desired quality in India?
Also, it would be handy if you guys could leave you age, gender, ethnic background and the country you live in so I could compare opinions across different ages and cultures etc
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->BTW: A side question, I have observed that Australians more than any other Western nation seem really racist towards Indians (and non Whites in general). I see this from reading Australian newspapers and forums on the internet. In my opinon it's because Australians may be fearful that their country of less than 20 million is dwarfed by a giant Asian continent of 3 billion + right above them, and they are afraid of losing their European roots and identity. What do you think ?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know Australia has kind of an image around the world of being particularly rascist, especially with the Cronualla riots recently. In my experience, although of course youre always going to get a few rednecks everywhere you go, I have found no problems with living as an Indian in Australia, in terms of coming across rascist attitudes or taunts etc. To me, at least in the major cities with a large migrant population, Australia is a lot less rascist than a lot of Western nations, especially many of the European countries. Obviously with the recent riots, there is definetely quite a few rascist views around, but these seem to be more in the white dominated beach side suburbs, and this is why I have had virtually no problem living in Australia, because I live in the inner suburbs, which are a lot more multicultural and tolerant, and go to a very multicultural school.
In Australia actually, fairness isn't an obsession at all, its actually the other way around- people want to be tanned, i suppose because it is associated with a life of leisure and having the time to enjoy yourself and being outdoors a lot, which is what is valued over there. I think fairness is sort of associated with the upper classess and snoberry, and maybe thats why its not very desired.
I was actually going to propose your point but the other way around- (i hope this doesnt make anyone angry, but feel free to refute me if you disagree) but I was wondering if maybe this fair skin obsession sprung about because of a sense of internalised rascism?? Perhaps, because of all our years of British colonialism, and white domination, and globalisation now, there was this sense of cultural inferiority amongst Indians toward thier Asian culture, and this brought about the perception that fair= more beautiful and superior, even when a very small percentage of the country is actually fair? I kind of got this from hearing stories about the way some black tourists are treated over there, especially in comparison with thier white skinned counterparts- but please tell me if you think I'm completely off the mark here.
<!--QuoteBegin-elizag+-->QUOTE(elizag)<!--QuoteEBegin-->I was actually going to propose your point but the other way around- (i hope this doesnt make anyone angry, but feel free to refute me if you disagree) but I was wondering if maybe this fair skin obsession sprung about because of a sense of internalised rascism?? Perhaps, because of all our years of British colonialism, and white domination, and globalisation now, there was this sense of cultural inferiority amongst Indians toward thier Asian culture, and this brought about the perception that fair= more beautiful and superior, even when a very small percentage of the country is actually fair? I kind of got this from hearing stories about the way some black tourists are treated over there, especially in comparison with thier white skinned counterparts- but please tell me if you think I'm completely off the mark here.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see anyone getting angry at that. I think it's at least partially true ~ and some I think already have aired a similar openion. There is even a fancy term for the above in some circle~"slavish mentality".
Me personally thinks that above is true, but favouring white skin have deeper socio-psychological reasons than just 200 years of colonial rule. I think bias for the white skin in our society predates colonialism~who can tell?
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