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Inculturation: the OTHER christian conversion tactic
And now I find this. The 3rd point in post 1 above (an excerpt by Rajeev Malhotra) is repeated at the Vivekajyoti blog. And then comes the backstab. It is a very effective one: I anticipate Hindus may bleed to death with such friends as these, who must surely know where to strike most effectively. As indeed they do. Rajiv Malhotra does little U-turns regularly, but I confess I never saw the following coming. More fool me.


Quote:Rajiv Malhotra

* * *

from Rajiv Malhotra

date Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 6:07 PM

subject Response to Indian dancer upset at my critique of Christian Bharatnatyam

This topic has entered other lists and there are some misunderstandings I wish to clear. Someone is distorting my position to claim that I am upset when Judeo-Christian persons perform bharatnatyam. THIS IS NOT MY POSITION.

If a Judeo-Christian person does the dance AUTHENTICALLY as per Hindu Natya Shastra that would be fine.

But many Christians have difficulty doing it this way, because it conflicts with their Christian indoctrination - worship of "false gods" and "idols" and so forth. When a dancer performs a gesture, mantra or ritual to a Hindu deity, say Shiva or Ganesha, is that dancer feeling the deity as GOD? Or it is felt internally as a "secular" or "cultural" symbol of "out of respect for our ancestors"? If the Christian dancer is clear and not self-deceptive that indeed the deity IS GOD then there is no issue - but then the padre in his/her church wont be happy.

There is NO problem with a person doing bharatnatyam regardless of his/her own faith. Pls read what i wrote in my response yesterday. The issue is about inculturation as a public campaign to infiltrate hindus by deception.

Hope this clarifies.


I can't believe he did this. It's like a punch in the stomach.

Bharatanatyam is worship of the Hindu Gods. Not some undefined entity called "God" that Hindus can supposedly share with christoislamics or Jewish persons or even anyone else.

Bharatanatyam is a dance for Hindu Gods alone, to be danced by Hindus alone - who alone love their Gods.

If people can sell Bharatanatyam - which is a deeply and exclusively Hindu religious dance - to non-Hindus (in which term christoislamics are especially included), then we can sell the Vedam to them too on the SAME PRINCIPLES. No? Can't have it both ways. People either agree to both statements or disagree to both.

So this is the statement that Rajeev just made:

Quote:There is NO problem with a person performing the Vedic rites regardless of his/her own faith. Thats not the issue. Lets not misrepresent the issue. Pls read what i wrote in my response yesterday. its about inculturation as a public program to infiltrate hindus by deception.


But many Christians have difficulty doing Vedic rites this way, because it conflicts with their Christian indoctrination - worship of "false gods" and "idols" and so forth.

Who is Rajiv to say this about Bharatanatyam? He has the right to *defend* Hindu exclusivity to Bharatanatyam, but no right to open it up to others. Even were it his local ancestral Hindu tradition - but I suspect it's not - he still would have no right.

More to object in this:

Quote:But many Christians have difficulty doing it this way, because it conflicts with their Christian indoctrination - worship of "false gods" and "idols" and so forth.
NO. No welcoming people of other (esp. alien) religions to Please Dabble In Hinduism Next To Their Own Religion.

There can be no worship of the evil fabrication of the Galilaeans (=christianism) alongside the real Gods of the Hindus. And likewise, no neo-paganism/wicca/new-age alongside part-time dabbling in Hindu religion.

Hindu religion is an ethnic religion. Stop inviting aliens, which is the source of all this misery.

I am not grateful to people who make such statements. Cannot expect me to be grateful. It is a summary of that which I detest about modern Hindus and their stupid stupid stupid (till infinity and beyond) arguments against christianism.

Anyone hear laughter? It is christianism. It is both cheering in anticipation of its victory and laughing at Hindus' dismal fate to come, which has ended up in dangerous hands such as these.

Rajiv's objection is to inculturation alone: he's objecting to the appropriation of Hindu forms of worship for the purpose of other religions, objecting to their being used for worship of other (non-existent) Gods. It is a common dangerously-flawed objection that de-heathenised make: dangerous and flawed because the argument is incomplete.

The full objection/argument - and it cannot be mine alone - is larger than that: that Bharatanatyam is - like the Vedam, like all things Hindu* - forever closed to non-Hindus.

* All statements on Bharatanatyam are repeated for everything else that is Hindu religion, like Carnatic music - which is exclusively Hindu religious practice.

Here in blue follows what the Hindus should have said, but in your words. It quotes the views of one of the all too few people who can be trusted. Parroting again -

[quote name='Husky' date='30 October 2010 - 09:12 PM' timestamp='1288452844' post='109050']

1. While the following brief excerpt says several things, contained in there is also the Heathen Argument against "inculturation". Sole argument (all there is to say on the matter) -

[color="#0000FF"]"(Julian's) revulsion at (christians') efforts to assimilate[/color] (=inculturate on) the literary and philosophic heritage of the Greeks without accepting the religious values voiced in it. To Julian's mind, that seemed wreckage, not assimilation."

Speaks on *why* inculturation should be opposed by all heathenisms. The Why is the most important part of the correct objection.

"On this point Julian's stance was basic and closed to argument: 'Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring.'"

Word for word.

And extends in equal measure to all "culture" thieves - of whatever hue. To the non-comprehending eye of the modern outer world looking in, religion manifests as "culture". But religio-culture - in ancient natural religio-traditions religion is the well-spring of what appears to others now as "culture" - is not some secular, generic (non-existent) "culture/civilisational values". E.g. considering the Dharmic religious tradition of the Hindoos, despite surface appearances, as Hindus know, there are profoundly religious reasons even behind why Hindus wear and apply certain things to their person. It isn't "culture". It's Hindu religion.[/quote]

Why can't I ever find an Indian voice that claims to represent Hindu interests that I can recommend unconditionally? Why should I have to forever quote Hellenes (I thank their Gods for them. But I would so much like to have at least one of our own kind, whose words I could confidently recommend, and Not have to trace everything they say to see if I still trust them, and then only to be disappointed. And thoroughly disappointed, as in this case.)

This should have been the response: only Hindus - only ancestral ("ethnic") Hindus who remain attached to their Hindu Gods as ever and do not recognise non-existent 'gawd' entities - have a right to perform Bharatanatyam. It is Hindu religious practice: it is directed solely at the Hindu Gods. Nowhere else.

As any Hindu knows, Bharatanatyam is performed by Shiva and his Wife at the dissolution and creation of the worlds - her lAsya is THE act of creation and his tANDavam is THE act of dissolution (I don't say this, *Rishis* - and after them acharyas - say this) - and it is performed by Uma-Shiva at dawn and dusk. And at all times. They ever perform it. When Hindus dance it in imitation, it is Yoga: the act by which the Hindoo attaches itself completely to its Hindu Gods, by which the Hindoo is attuned to the Hindoo Gods.

And only the Hindoo Gods respond to Hindoo religious practices. When performed by Hindoos.

Like the Vedam, like Kavadi, like all Hindoo things - it is NONE of anyone else's business.

If christianism doesn't destroy Hindus, angelsk-enabled vocalists speaking for Hindus surely will. "Death By Backstab."

A fitting end, surely? No? If not, make the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota declaration. It is past time.

"All those who sell our Hindoo religion=its religious practices are enemies of Hindoos and their religion=Gods. [Where 'sell' includes peddling as well as facilitating appropriation or for dabbling, etc.]"

[quote name='Husky' date='29 September 2011 - 05:37 PM' timestamp='1317297553' post='113081']



Hindus should visit the above. And shudder.



Quote:her (Uma's) lAsya is THE act of creation and his (Shiva's) tANDavam is THE act of dissolution
He is supposed to have several tandavams - one of which is for creation of the Kosmos and which he dances together with his wife (who in turn performs the creative laasya for the occasion, as mentioned).

But, unless I've confused myself again, I think he is supposed to dance the closing tandavam (for dissolution) on his own.

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Inculturation: the OTHER christian conversion tactic - by Husky - 09-29-2011, 06:43 PM

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