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Inculturation: the OTHER christian conversion tactic
Post 2/2

This is a more subtle case. But it must be said.


Quote:Let me make one thing very very clear. I am a practicing Catholic Christian. My voice is not against Christianity or Catholic religion.

They also gave us herd mentality and we need to break from that … which is not against the spirit of Jesus but in tune with what He taught.

Another problem is my emphasis on our own spiritual traditions which are far older… like the mother goddess worship which is very much in our blood.

I am today the voice of my people as the guardian of the coast of Mother India … as the owners and creators of this age old civilization… from Ramayana to Mahabharatha to every Purana my people have a role in it, they are not an imported people. They have their roots in this culture and in this spiritual tradition. The fact that I am a Catholic cannot deny this heritage of our people. I hence speak their voice.. the voice of our ancestors speaks through me.

Joe D'Cruz is welcome home Any Time of his choosing. But it must be wholly. With no vestige of anything else.

But until then he may make no claims.

He cannot AND remain a catholic/any type of christoislamic AND claim any part of Ramayanam/Mahabharatam/Puranas.

These itihaasas and puruNas speak of his Hindoo ancestors. Not of any christians who have replaced their lineages.

That is, these Hindoo texts mentioning the Tamizh fishing communities are not speaking of converts to Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Christianism, Islam, atheism, scientology, raelianism. They speak of those who were and remain ethnic Hindoos alone. Both: ethnic Hindu AND HindOO.

It is NOT a heritage of others. It is a living tradition and will ever remain exclusively the heritage of ethnic Hindoos alone. Conversion to other religions is NOT a free ticket to still make claim to Hindoo history with.

And when the last Hindoo among this fisherman community is dead - or the heathenism of the last Hindu fisherman has been murdered and converted to christianism/islam/atheism/whatever else - that is when the references in the Hindoo puranas and itihaasas to these fishermen ceases to speak of a living community but speaks of an extinct one: of HindOOs who existed once, but have now been replaced by replacement theologies.

Any dilution of the kind D'Cruz does - he claims he is a practising catholic, even while trying to claim Hindoo heathenism as his "heritage", based on the obviously dying vestiges/embers in his community of worshipping some unnamed "Mother Goddess" (this isn't a neopaganism, name her, she is named in the Vedam and subsequent scriptures of the Vedic tradition onlee)

Again: Any dilution of the kind D'Cruz does is an injustice to (and ultimately contributes to the destruction of) Hindoo heathenism and Hindoos - all those who have remained loyal and are not half-hearted, not trying to straddle the world of the genocidal and false christianism (christianism being an Evil Lie, as Julian said) and heathenism.

Any dilution further turns Hindoo heathenism into a travesty. Into a pick and choose religion. A buffet. Like alien neo-pagans have been doing.

Joe D'Cruz should come home when he's ready. He can take his time, but he may NOT claim any Hindoo heathenism - anything from the Vedam/Upanishads to itihasas and puranas and tantras and agamas - as the heritage of his christianised community or ANY christians or islamics or Bauddhified or Jainised etc in India or beyond. All of these converts to replacement theologies have run off with Hindoos and Hindoo heathenism, and have only used the inculturated "inherited" parts of the latter to make more converts from the former.

Can see Buddhists and Jains today pretend they have equal claims to Ramayana "traditions" etc and use this illegal self-enrichment to simultaneously missionise on more Hindoos.

Hindoo heathenism and all that comprises it are not a culture to be inherited, to have a pretend life in those in whom heathenism is dead or dying.

It belongs in the living heathens thereof and dies with them.

D'Cruz is free to return. Or free to stay where he is. And that is all the choice open to him. And if he chooses to return - instead of trying to straddle both heathenism and christianism, pretending the two can even be reconciled (what, like a Jewish concentration camp victim and the nazi gestapo who sent his people to the gas chambers?) - if D'Cruz ever chooses to return properly and fully, then all of Hindoo heathenism will be open to him. And the MBh and Ramayanam etc would be speaking of him, as a conscious Hindoo still of that tradition alone and unsubverted and insubvertible.

Not until then. Never until then.

Everywhere including Greece and Rome you can see catholics pretending they are the "native" "inheritors" of the ancient GrecoRoman Hellenistic "civilisation". Having genocided it. Genocide wasn't enough for christoislam: it has to pretend it has "inherited" it all. Merely by pointing to genetics, i.e. ethnicity.


But I'm sure no Hindu commenting will say that to D'Cruz and would in fact object to any other Hindus saying so. I admit D'Cruz is far from being an unsympathetic character, and that I am actually very much inclined towards liking him. But even so, and regardless, my religio and my heathens must be safeguarded from any gangrene and are the first and only priority. So before he can make claims upon any of this - or before Hindus being allowed to acknowledge his claims - he must be free of any gangrene and not bring it with him to poison heathenism with, as he would be doing by remaining a catholic while claiming Hindoo heathenism as some merely 'ethnic' heritage - No Ramayanam, MBh are not "all Indian" "heritage". They are Religio onlee.

If D'Cruz truly cared - and if he truly regrets his people's conversion, as many did for a long time after their initial conversion - he'd stay away until he was ready to take the full plunge into Hindoo heathenism. =What any unselfish person would do. What anyone who claimed to respect any of it would do.

Most important is for "Hindu nationalists" to not get carried away by emotions and let people like D'Cruz (and less sincere people will try to sneak in by the same door*) remain both a christian/anything unHindoo AND make claims on heathenism. *Because that's what Hinduwisdom.info's host once did to an Indonesian ex-Hindu convert to christianism who asked whether they can still claim Hindu history/achievements via "cultural" Hinduism. To which the Hinduwisdom.info host unthinkingly agreed.

Any "Hindu"/nationaist who agrees has essentially signed Hindoo heathenism's death warrant: because what is stopping every missionary religion from hereafter pillaging from Hindu heathenism as its "equal heritage" while still converting people out into their replacement theologies? Nothing is stopping them. Though that is exactly the position modern Hindus have against Buddhism etc constantly claiming Hindoo stuffs and still poaching from our people (and elsewhere still genociding them/their heathenism and that of others).

Aside: Meanwhile, "Gopi Thomas" - frequently seen commenting at swarajyamag - is a subtle subversionist. Whether she (?) is well-meaning or not is not even an important question. But odd how she is allowed to lecture Hindoos on their heathenism and gets applauded even. I recall something she said against Bhishma that found takers. Typical. Hindus will allow anyone to subvert them. Even christians who are still christian. Gopi Thomas is still a christian by the way*, so why is she allowed - by other Hindus to make claims on Hindoo heathenism as if any part or degree of it were her inheritance? Why do others allow her opinions - obviously informed by the presence of lingering christianism - to dictate the character of Bhishma. Some hours ago Gopi Thomas referred to Yoga as being recognised as an "Indian origin contribution". "All-Indian?" What, equally (or to any degree) hers?

Coming from Hindus that statement would be more short-sighted universalising of Hindoo stuffs. But coming from still-christians like Thomas, that statement is invariably to be taken as the first step of inculturation: declaring something is all-Indian before declaring it is equally christian then originally/actually christian.

If she were actually interested in "Indian traditions" why doesn't she revert? Exactly why does she spend so much time on Hindu nationalist sites (even as 'her cardinal is [still] Cleemens', see below).

And why does she declare opinions on Hindoo matters with "authority"? How can even a recent revert - let alone someone who is still christian and not reverted nor has chosen to be - be an authority at all? Even recent reverts have only the right to learn from Hindoo experts, not to arrogate authority to themselves and interpret for themselves and lecture with their speculations.

And until people revert, they are not to be trusted, and Hindu nationalist readers should stop elevating these people to more than they are: christians who are not hostile. Any more, and Hindoos and their heathenism will only get burned. Wouldn't be the first time.

And why do Hindu nationalists expect such people to revert? Why do they never push for it? But clearly Gopi doesn't want to, else she would have. She can speak of Indian nationalism if she wants to be a nationalist while being christian (if her church and cardinal and religion allow her). She has no right to speak of Hindoo heathenism or dabble in reading its stuffs part-time while still being a christian. Christians pretending to be sympathetic need to stop turning Hindoo heathenism into a travesty and stop making a joke out of their own religion too, which does not approve of heathenisms and their misplaced sympathy and clearly they're acting independent of it (then why still pretend, like it's some neopaganism worshipping jeebus and reading Hellenistic philosophy). Can't have the cake and eat it to.

Quote:gopi thomas • 4 hours ago

Yoga is immensely popular throughout the world; recogmized as an Indian origin contribution by all over.

* Found it:


Quote: gopi thomas • 3 months ago

The English media jumps at the first instance and takes the position giving a headline completely distorting the incident. For example, the recent Haryana 'church demolition'... A Hanuman bust near the cross may not be welcome to many; however, it hardly qualifies as demolition. There are too many examples..

One would think there is an ISIS type attack on Yazdis happening here!

There are many NGOs whose survival depends on fund collection from abroad by magnifying these. May be they are pumping money into newspapers/editors. I cannot see any other reason for distorting and undue coverage - of course the Modi hate is there ... How did the chaiwallah come to power after 'we put up a major obstacle"..

I was a lil disturbed by Sri Rubio's article.. may be he is becoming senile. Age catches up.

I was more than troubled by my Cardinal - Cleemes - statement about cow protection /women protection/ nun protection. I believe t ddnt come from him; he was forced to make that statement.

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Inculturation: the OTHER christian conversion tactic - by Husky - 06-15-2015, 07:38 PM

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