What does Isreal have to do with India's battle against Pakistan sponsored terrorism in India [not just Jammu & Kashmir]?
Few months or years, how could one remember, India was talking of teaching Pakistan a lesson, IA was ordered at the border, India was finally at war, but suddenly after giving our Jawans a brutal sun-tan they were asked to retreat. Why?
Now we have our PM speaking the language of peace, to who? A man who carries a gun and has shown clear intentions of using it if you dont give him your dollars. Well there is no real clash of civilizations. US wanted a stronghold in oil regions and a jumping plank for future energy reserves in the world. It has got them. Now US wants to break the economical and political back of this Jihadi or as one should say "Arab nationalism", Lawrance must be hating me right now.
A real clash would have been if Muslims all over the globe would have pressured their govts to cut of all ties to US and declare a Jihad against US, did it happen? Oh, Islamic brotherhood you say, its only in the books. Behind all this charade its power that all seek. Well today power lies with US and no Islamic or Arab or any can deny that. US has declared its own Jihad against Jihad. It has reminded the Muslim world that it will not tolerate its chaotic and brutal methods. Post Sept-11 the bombings and killings done by Muslims around the world have no more sympathizers, they are being viewed as criminals, prior to Sept-11 you could have found thousands of leftist Europeans or Indians hailing or having a casual attitude to a bus bombing in Isreal or to a US hostage or US hijacking etc. Well not anymore.
With all sensibilities look at the Islamic civilization today, where does it stand? The false notion of defeating a super-power [USSR] the fanatic Jihadis think they can bring US down, they are mistaken. USSR was not US neither is US USSR. US has always defined its policies in pratical manner and are always revolved against its own interests. Sorry clashers of civilizations, there is not clash, the great Ummah or should I say Islamic civilization, it simply doesnt exist. So what clash are we talking of?
India's case? Well I leave that to the Pundits, cant understand how they can simply argue with truth. Till India doesnt change its mindset and calls spade a spade, till then not just Pakistan, but even Sri Lanka will be a thorn in India's ass.
Achraya: If I'm not mistaken this thread is to post book reviews - kinda like one on BR?
All: Please post the purpose of thread if you are starting one. This way everyone is aware as to what kind of posts go in where. If you want to start a thread - please feel free to do so (rules lot relaxed compared to other places - for now <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> )
Gill: Welcome. Please see if your post is relevant here - you might have to start a new thread if it dosen't fit into one of the existing one. More on the topic later.
THE EIGHTEENTH CENTURY IN INDIAN HISTORY â Evolution or Revolution? P.J. Marshallâ Editor; Oxford University Press, YMCA Library Building, Jai Singh Road, New Delhi-110001. Rs.650.
THE 18TH Century is an important watershed in the long and chequered history of India. The period saw the gradual decline of the mighty Mughal Empire that had for centuries, controlled most parts of the country except the extreme south. For a brief while, the Marathas appeared to replace the Mughal hegemony. But the power of the Marathas was irretrievably crushed by the British who, slowly but steadily, rose to political prominence throughout South Asia.
The historiography of the 18th Century India has, for long, been monopolised by the transition of Mughal provinces into successor states often dominated by rebel or splinter groups not belonging to the royal stock.
Most of the earlier writings strongly regard the 18th century as a period of intense revolutionary changes that in turn, paved the way for further revolution. Recent research, however, reveals the "evolutionary nature of these changes, thereby indicating the unbroken continuities between the Mughal Empire and its immediate successors".
Against this backdrop, even the frightening Battle of Plassey (June, 1757) may not exactly be the "turning point" in history but one among a series of events that finally led to the British rule in India.
The book under review, a collection of 15 papers or essays by eminent historians from all parts of the globe, critically explores the nature, volume and pace of political and economic change in the 18th Century India. All the essays were earlier contributed to academic journals or books.
The first four essays provide a generalised account of the movements and events of the 18th Century India. They also probe the historical theories and problems pertaining to this period.
The essay by Irfan Habib will be of special interest to students of economics and commercial history as it deals with the variegated agricultural and revenue systems, industries, exports and imports.
Most of the subsequent essays are detailed and in-depth analyses of specific political systems or events confined to a particular region or area. Bernard Cohn's essay furnishes instances to prove that the decline of the Mughal power in Delhi emboldened several provincial governors and clan leaders to assert independent political control over specific areas or principalities.
The only essay exclusively dealing with South India is that of Susan Bayly. She provides a graphic description of the politico-religious history, administrative policies and court culture of the Nawabs of Arcot. The final essay by Rajat Datta focuses on agrarian economy, with special reference to Bengal region. It includes nine interesting graphs highlighting the fluctuating economic fortunes of the 18th century Bengal.
The book concludes that this was a period of evolution and continuity rather than change. It is a must read for all those keen to know India's complex transition from the medieval to the modern.
POPULATIONS OF THE SAARC COUNTRIES â Bio-cultural perspectives: Jayanta Sarkar and G.C. Ghosh â Editors; Anthropological Survey of India and Sterling Publishers Pvt. Ltd., L-10, Green Park Extension, New Delhi-110016.
Rs. 300.
ANTHROPOLOGY BEGAN by studying little known exotic populations in order to understand and also generalise principles of human society.
Some historians felt that such an approach was not adequate to understand complex industrial societies. Despite these objections studies of peoples with a focus on a nation started appearing in fairly good number during the 1950s. One of the earliest such attempts is that of L.K. Hsu which appeared in 1952.
It was titled, A Study of China in Transition and Its Implication. Almost in the same year M.N. Srinivas published his study on the Coorgs of Karnataka and Iravati Karve brought out her work, Kinship Organisation of India. Adrian Mayer's Land and Society in Malabar or for that matter, S.C. Dube's Indian Village are similar attempts to focus at a microcosm in order to develop a macrocosm.
Gradually anthropologists started changing this stand because of purely methodological reasons. It was argued that the universe of any kind of anthropological study could not be based on geo-political or linguistic boundaries.
Instead the correct method has to be based on endogamous ethnic groups or what the physical anthropologists will like to call a Mendelian population.
The book under review, consequently, has to be taken as an attempt of only bringing together a large assortment of diverse information for merely the purpose of documentation.
Information on population from seven different countries in the general neighbourhood of each other and forming a club under a political treaty viz., the SAARC countries, has been dealt with in this book.
Part I embodies an article by Chumki Piplai, which traces the population dynamics and ancient movement patterns of the major inhabitants of the SAARC member countries.
This is followed by another article by J.M. Sarcar, which traces the biological affinities of the major population of these countries. Most of this exercise has been done by compiling secondary data. Consequently, nothing more than what is, by far, a well-established fact could be achieved.
For instance, the western populations have higher frequency of Glucose-6 phosphate deficiency while the Mongoloids have low frequency of blood group MS and CDE.
Part II considers the cultural aspects of affinities among the people of the SAARC countries. Jyotirmoy Chakraborty and Rabiranjan Biswas try this difficult task by using such diverse areas of consideration as trade, religion, myths, epics and chronicles.
Even art and architecture as vehicles of cultural diffusion have been considered. Obviously what comes out, as a major casualty in the process, is the fact of overlapping. That each one of these areas can influence one or more of the other areas seems to not bother the authors.
Further myths and epic literature are clubbed together for understanding cultural linkages. This is not entirely the right approach because myths and epics belong to two entirely different genres.
While myth can be considered closer to oral history, epic is in the category of literature. Further, why then not consider the Silapatikaram and the Manimekalai and also the Sangam literature?
The final section of Part II, titled the "Epilogue", and written by J.K. Sarkar and G.C. Ghosh, draws heavily from three publications by Kennedy brought out before 1990.
Apparently the authors missed Kennedy's latest book published in October 2000, God, Apes and Fossil Men. This could have helped them to understand the metamorphosis of prehistoric populations in South Asia in a more holistic manner.
This book aims at an enormous canvas and attempts to deal it within 135 pages. Consequently it basically remains superficial. However, this may help non-specialists to have a glimpse of the people of this region.
Here are some books that i have found useful. Some I own and some i have had a chance to glance through. But a list such as this is hard to come by even in India. The original file is available in [url="http://f6.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/UAlnP0XOGFkroVbQADHMTIvbPZ2tK5lLR88qlUyu9sTvwClKc6UrUKMLRmx7nf2VD9yOJAl75YsjBfuHN2rkquaE8BY/Indian%20History%20Books"]Bharatnirbhaya [/url]
This file will be continuously updated as new references are found.
The goal is to make this a resource for those who are interested(laymen as well
as scholars) in this subject.
References on Indian History;
The History and Culture of the Indian People(HCIP) by R.C. Majumdar is a
comprehensive multivolume series that covers the entire history pretty well too
but then he is also called "saffron" though what he
wrote is the same as written by the Muslim historians
K.A. Nilakanta Sastri et al (eds.)A comprehensive History of India , Calcutta, 1957
K.A. Nilakanta Sastri, A Historyof South India from PreHistoric Times to the fall of Vijayanagara, Madras , 1955
A Brief Bibliography of Military History (University of Illinois) Contains a decent collection of titles on Indian History from Ancient to Post Independence
The Sarasvati Sindhu Vedic Period
THE RIGVEDA
A Historical Analysis
SHRIKANT G. TALAGERI
Aditya Prakashan, New Delhi,2000
RIG VEDA AND THE HISTORY OF INDIA (Rig Veda Bharata Itihaasa)
By David Frawley (Vamadeva Shastri)
Aditya Prakashan, 2001, New Delhi, 550 Rupies, Hardback 363 pages,
ISBN 81-7742-039-9.We have a few copies of the book available for sale in USA at the price of $15.00, which includes shipping. Send payment to:
Prof.S.N.Balagangadhara's book has to be mentioned in this. It is extremely expensive so I would try and get it through inter-library loan system. He has also written a paper available for private distribution - I will have to ask for his permission to redistribute it.
Amazon link for the book
[url="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/9004099433/qid=1063756843/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/002-7951558-8160854?v=glance&s=books&n=507846"]The 'Heathen in His Blindness...': Asia, the West and the Dynamic of Religion [/url]
He has written a couple of articles on Sulekha also .
[url="http://sulekha.com/column.asp?cid=271421"]On Colonial Experience and the Indian Renaissance: A Prolegomenon to a Project [/url]
Other must-reads..
[url="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0691088950/qid=1063757152/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/002-7951558-8160854?v=glance&s=books&n=507846"]Castes of Mind: Colonialism and the Making of Modern India by Nicholas Dirks.[/url]
[url="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0253213584/ref=pd_sim_books_1/002-7951558-8160854?v=glance&s=books"]Imagining India by Ronald Inden[/url]
Yvetteji (Ramrani) has been in correspondence sporadically with me in the past. May God grant her a speedy recovery back to a healthy and productive life. Yvetteji has been a consistent and proactive friend of India. She has followed up her adoption of Hinduism with a very active program of activities in support of the Hindu renaissance.
[quote name='Kaushal' date='Sep 17 2003, 11:23 AM'] Yvetteji (Ramrani) has been in correspondence sporadically with me in the past. [/quote]
Same here. I am sorry to hear of this and if there is any move to organize some form or assistance we would be happy to help. She had a wacky sense of humor and was an articulate writer on certain aspects of the Hindu universe.
I am also sorry to hear about Yvette Rosser. Any update on the situation?
On another note, I have a copy of "In search of Indo-Europeans" from the library. I am about to start reading the book. Is it worth spending several days? Any reviews of the book do you know of?
Quote:On another note, I have a copy of "In search of Indo-Europeans" from the library. I am about to start reading the book. Is it worth spending several days? Any reviews of the book do you know of?
Mallory expresses the classical view. One cannot fault linguistics for the conclusion which people fall into. Linguistics is a valid field of inquiry and i suppose Mallory is as qualified to write on the subject as any. Where linguistics falls short and provides little evidence, is the time scale over which migrations may have occurred or have been postulated. My own preference is Colin Renfrew 'Archaeology and Language - the puzzle of indo european origins, Cambridge University Press,1987.
A trap many europeans (and Indians ) fall into is that from the hypothesis that there existed a Indo european family of languages, there necessarily follows the conclusion that there existed a family of Indo-european people. All we know for certain at this point is that the IE family of languages were prevalent over a large portion of the eurasian land mass even in antiquity.
Here is one review [url="http://www.geocities.com/solarguard/pagan/searchindos.html"]http://www.geocities.com/solarguard/pagan/...earchindos.html[/url] .
As you can imagine views on this subject are for the most part polarized and depend on the camp to which the reviewer belongs.
If you have a serious interest in the Indo-European and Indo-Aryan problems, then Mallory is a must read. If you have no interest in linguistics then it may be of no interest. Mallory's forte is lingusitics and he is rather effective at that. However, in terms of archaeology it is somewhat dated. For a more updated view you may see the Tarim mummies along with Mair, where they discuss the IA problem more objectively. In any case archaeology has not thrown much light on the IE and IA problems. Renfrew's book is more heavy on archaeology but shabby in terms of linguistics and comparative mythology.
In my opinion the Indo-Iranian languages and culture are most critical to the understanding of early IE. This was also the view of the western scholars until the end of the 1940s. Suddenly after that the focus on I-Ir started decreasing and it was relegated to a relatively unimportant position in IE studies. The books of both Mallory and Renfrew suffer from this bias against I-Ir. The excess attention given to Hititte by both these streams is real not helpful. This has had negative consequences in attacking the IE problem. In part Mallory and Mair try to address that in the Tarim mummies but their thinking is still constrained by the old biases that are still there. The mainstream Indologists spearheaded by Witzel and his lackeys are only adding to the problem by their inaccurate work on the Indian material. Likewise most native Indian scholars are also shoddy in their work and labor under some delusions effort to fight strawmen (The Aryan invasion debate). But one will have to do far more serious investigation beyond Mallory and Renfrew to understand the nuances of the problem. Nevertheless, they are a good place to start.
[quote name='Hauma Hamiddha' date='Sep 22 2003, 05:41 AM'] If you have a serious interest in the Indo-European and Indo-Aryan problems, then Mallory is a must read. If you have no interest in linguistics then it may be of no interest. Mallory's forte is lingusitics and he is rather effective at that. [/quote]
Kaushal and HH
Thanks for your suggestions. I am interested in digging to a suffieciently deep (but not very deep) level to understand what the question is and the the different POVs and solutions proposed by scholars working in the area.
I did a quick ~ 1 hr scan of the book. What is interesting to me was that inspite of Mallory being an archeologist (at least that is the impression I got from my quick scan), his theories are based on comparative linguistics. As HH says, he has not given lot of references to Sanskrit though quotes Sir Jones (the then Justice of the Indian Supreme Court and a Linguist of considerable standing) early on.
It is definitely a project of considerable effort to go through the book and summarize for the forum. I will try to do that in the coming month(s). Now that winter is just about here, I would have lot more time to spend on reading.
On another note, I have a copy of the Bhartrihari's Shataka Traya by Barbara Stoler Miller. There are a lot of interesting things said about Sanskrit poetry in general and Bhartrihari in specific. I hope to review some this stuff as well for the forum. Stay tuned.
I am soliciting the opinions of the forum members on Miller.
Bhartrihari was the poet laureate of India (during his era). Some accounts say he was the brother of K. Vikramaditya. I have Vairagya Satakam one of 3 series of the Subhashita trisati. There is a proposal to make Bhartrihari compulsory reading for all (English ) literature degree candidates. I dont know whether it has been implemented yet.There was no thought of such proposals during the time when i was a student in India (late 50's) and i suspect the very thought would have been considered sacrilegious. The subhashitas are gems of Vedantic wisdom.
This first volume is a new adventure in the historiography of Indian civilization. It avoids the ethnic and West-centred bias which has been a legacy of colonial historiography. It seeks strict scientific objectivity, differing from all hithero existing volumes of this kind by giving due attention to science and philosophy in the history of Indian civilization.
History of Science, Philosophy and Culture in Indian Civilization : Vol. I, Part I : The Dawn of Indian Civilization (up to c. 600 BC)/edited by G.C. Pande. New Delhi, 1999, xxxii, 787 p., maps, figs, plates, ISBN 81-87586-00-1.
Contents: Preface. General introduction/D.P. Chattopadhyaya. Introduction/G.C. Pande. I. Historiography of Ancient India: 1. Sources of ancient Indian history/V.C. Srivastava. 2. Puranic historiography of the Vedic age/S.N. Roy. II. Geography and Ethnography: 3. Physical features of India/Indra Pal. 4. Human geography of India/Indra Pal. 5. Approaches to Indian ethnography/Badri Narayan Tiwari. III. Prehistory, Technology and Social Evolution: 6. A brief note on Indian stone age archaeology/V.D. Misra. 7. Prehistoric technology/Prakash Sinha. 8. The emergence of culture in the Vindhya-Ganga region with special reference to old stone age/Radha Kant Varma. 9. Cave paintings of Central India/Sushila Pant. 10. Agriculture, domestication of animals, ceramic and other industries in prehistoric India: mesolithic and neolithic/V.D. Misra. IV. Proto-History (Harappan and Chalcolithic Cultures): 11. The Indus-Sarasvati civilization: beginnings and developments/S.P. Gupta. 12. Religious and burial practices of Harappans: Indian evidence/Jagat Pati Joshi. 13. Harappans and the Rgveda: points of convergence/R.S. Bisht. 14. Decline and legacy of the phase of Indus civilization/B.B. Lal. 15. Chalcolithic cultures and technology in India/D.P. Agrawal. 16. Early iron technology and its socio-economic impact/Vibha Tripathi. 17. Rise of cultures in eastern India/Purushottam Singh. 18. Material culture of South India as revealed in archaeological excavations/K.V. Raman. V. The Vedas, Vedic Society and Ideas: 19. The Vedas: their authors and significance/G.C. Pande. 20. Vedic society/Sibesh Bhattacharya. 21. Vedic rituals/Kishore Nath Jha. 22. Vedic and upanisadic philosophy/Arvind Sharma. 23. Astronomy and its role in Vedic culture/Subhash Kak. VI. Foundations and Beginnings of Systematic Science: 24. Vedic technology/Prem Sagar Chaturvedi. 25. Foundations of Indian mathematics and geometrical ideas in the Sulba Sutras/S.A. Paramhans. 26. Vedanga astronomy/S.N. Jha. 27. Development of Ayurveda from antiquity to AD 300/P.V. Sharma. 28. Panini, Katyayana and Patanjali: an overview of Sanskrit grammatical tradition/Rama Nath Sharma. Bibliography. Index.
"This first volume is a new adventure in the historiography of Indian civilization. It avoids the ethnic and west centred bias which has been a legacy of colonial historiography. It seeks strict scientific objectivity, differing from all hitherto existing volumes of this kind by giving due attention to science and philosophy in the history of Indian civilization.
"The contributions are based on the first-hand and critical study of the original sources by the best known experts. While meticulously attending to chronology and hard data, the volume also seeks to understand scientific and philosophical concepts, methods and theories. It seeks to present the symbolic world of art and culture as grounded in moral vision as well as social reality. The work is designed to be of use to scholars and specially to students and general readers.
"The volume is divided into six sections: Historiography; Geography and Ethnography; Prehistory, Technology and Social Evolution; Proto-History; The Vedas, Vedic Society and Ideas; and Foundations and beginnings of systematic science." (jacket)
[D.P. Chattopadhyaya also wrote Anthropology and Historiography of Science History, Individuals and World and Sri Aurobindo and Karl Marx.]